Matching 1945 Enfield sniper
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Thread: Matching 1945 Enfield sniper

  1. #1
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    Default Matching 1945 Enfield sniper

    I thought I would post on this rifle after reading the thread on the estate Lee below. I've owned this for awhile and got it in a trade deal for $600.00. I was extremely fortunate that when this trade was happening Ian Skennerton was attending a local gun show so I asked him examine it to make sure it was legit and matching. He gave it two thumbs up which cemented the deal. Notice it has a 1907 pattern sling but it looks British made. Also interesting is the 1945 date on the rifle and 1946 date on the scope. The rifle doesn't appear to have seen much use. At some point the case was re-numbered to the rifle but Ian said that was common. The sniper veil was also in the box when I got it along with the two pieces of what looks like a 1964 dated manual with scope instructions. Mailing label on the case indicates it migrated here from England via Canada. I've never shot it and neither had the previous owner. Based on what I'm reading on that other thread that may not be such a good idea anyway.

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    Here's some more pics:

    http://imgur.com/a/Vu3VV

    Thoughts and comments welcome.
    Mike

















    http://imgur.com/a/Vu3VV

  2. #2
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    Thanks for sharing. Great pictures. One of my favorite rifles!

  3. #3
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    Great rifle.

    Mine is serial numbered X33535, so as snipers go, it was built not all that long after yours (there are LOTS of missing serial numbers in between, on rifles that did not make the cut to be a sniper) .

    This is only the second time I have seen one of these rigs with the canvas scope carrying pouch instead of the metal scope can.

    My rig was the first one I saw like that.

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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronbo6 View Post
    Great rifle.

    Mine is serial numbered X33535, so as snipers go, it was built not all that long after yours (there are LOTS of missing serial numbers in between, on rifles that did not make the cut to be a sniper) .

    This is only the second time I have seen one of these rigs with the canvas scope carrying pouch instead of the metal scope can.

    My rig was the first one I saw like that.


    Ronbo6,

    What is the scope number on your rifle ?, I believe it was originally matched to my No4T (scope No 24635) I bought the rifle few years ago in an auction in the UK, just wonder if you have the original bracket with the scope.

    I was contacted by a member of Milsurps, I'd posted a thread regarding I was looking for the scope etc.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigduke6 View Post
    Ronbo6,

    What is the scope number on your rifle ?, I believe it was originally matched to my No4T (scope No 24635) I bought the rifle few years ago in an auction in the UK, just wonder if you have the original bracket with the scope.

    I was contacted by a member of Milsurps, I'd posted a thread regarding I was looking for the scope etc.
    Yes, I do have scope #24635, but I understand the mount on my scope does not match your rifle. My mount is numbered for N36878. In this case, half a loaf is much better than none, though.

    I have owned this rifle and scope since 1970, and the scope was 'gone over' and had a turret repaired a few years ago by Warren Wheatfield, who I understand you know.

    I certainly believe the right thing to do is to get this scope over to you, and had contacted Warren earlier this week about what I needed to do in order to get the scope (and mount) to you in Great Britain, and how to get an equivalent replacement Mark 3 scope and mount for my rifle. I was just about ready to contact you when I saw your post.

    For what it is worth, my rifle is serialed X33535 and the matching scope for it is #26314.
    Last edited by Ronbo6; 01-28-2017 at 06:15 PM. Reason: Corrected miscopied number.

  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronbo6 View Post
    Yes, I do have scope #24635, but I understand the mount on my scope does not match your rifle. My mount is numbered 36878. In this case, half a loaf is much better than none, though.

    I have owned this rifle and scope since 1970, and the scope was 'gone over' and had a turret repaired a few years ago by Warren Wheatfield, who I understand you know.

    I certainly believe the right thing to do is to get this scope over to you, and had contacted Warren earlier this week about what I needed to do in order to get the scope (and mount) to you in Great Britain, and how to get an equivalent replacement Mark 3 scope and mount for my rifle. I was just about ready to contact you when I saw your post.

    For what it is worth, my rifle is serialed X33535 and the matching scope for it is #26878.

    Ronbo6,

    Really appreciate the above, I have 2 x Mk3 scopes, numbers 22085 and 22564 We could do a straight swap for one of the ones I have? I'll cover all postage costs etc. I'll keep the bracket I have and you keep yours.

    Rifle below,



    Last edited by bigduke6; 01-28-2017 at 02:52 PM.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigduke6 View Post
    Ronbo6,

    Really appreciate the above, I have 2 x Mk3 scopes, numbers 22085 and 22564 We could do a straight swap for one of the ones I have? I'll cover all postage costs etc. I'll keep the bracket I have and you keep yours.
    Either of the two scopes would be fine with me. The financial arrangements are also acceptable.

    I was wondering about also shipping the mount (bracket). The mount on my scope still has all eight of the ring screws firmly staked in place, and have been undisturbed from when the scope was put into this mount way back when.

    I figure there would also be some value in also having undisturbed staked screws like this setup has, and I would be interested in swapping the mount along with the scope if you would be interested.

    Truth be told, I am more than a little bit concerned about buggering up the still 'perfect' screws with the original finish still on the insides of the slots if I try to remove them.

    Also for what it's worth, my scope was made by "CT&S" and still has the painted red and blue 'W' and 'B' on the scope body clearly visible.

    I am still trying to figure out what kind of 'weasel words' I will need to use on the Customs documentation to make the scope's journey through Customs as smooth as possible. When I sent the scope and mount to Warren for the turret repair (and mentioned repair and return for the reason it was being shipped), U.S. Customs held it up for about a month for no good reason I can figure (other than it was for an 'evil gun').

    Any help here from anybody who has smoothly made a similar cross-borders swap (preferably between the US and the UK) would be appreciated.

    Sorry about the thread hijack, but I figure there are more than a few people on this board who may also find this information interesting,and I sure could use some help with the customs documents.
    Last edited by Ronbo6; 01-28-2017 at 03:33 PM.

  9. #8
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    I have an additional question for those out there with more experience than I have in the international shipping area.

    I used the US Postal System the last time I shipped my scope out of the country. Would there be any material advantages to using, say, Fed Ex or UPS?

  10. #9
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    I think it is "fragile antique optical equipment". Hope someone can help on shipping advice. Outstanding and generous move on your part Ronbo. Hope you get an outstanding scope and/or mount in return.

  11. #10
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    If the scope is sent "for repair" you probable would not experience any problems.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by muffett.2008 View Post
    If the scope is sent "for repair" you probable would not experience any problems.

    Thats what I was thinking, repair for inbound scope and repaired scope going outbound only difference is the number of the scope.....

  13. #12
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    Has anyone started a thread or considered making a sticky for T owners to list what scope(s) they need and what they have in an effort to rematch others?
    MEMBER SINCE 08/2004, SILVER STAR MEMBER ON THE ORIGINAL FORUM

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigduke6 View Post
    Thats what I was thinking, repair for inbound scope and repaired scope going outbound only difference is the number of the scope.....
    Sounds like a plan from here. Warren put several stickers on the outside of the package when he returned my scope stating " Telescope Circa 1940 - Returned after repairs" . The scope made it back to me much quicker than it took for my scope just to clear outgoing Customs in the US.

    Another question comes to mind. I haven't bought or sold one of these scopes EVER, and am wondering what sort of insurance value would be appropriate. I am certain the value is going to be quite a bit more than the $500 or so default insurance that the USPS puts on the package. Any suggestions as to the insurance value to use would be welcome

    Bigduke6: We need to exchange some addresses and perhaps some other information that wouldn't really be appropriate here. I suggest using the Private Message feature on this site. Look for an incoming message under the "Notifications' tab at the top of the page.

  15. #14
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    I would insure it for $2500 with the mount, $1750 without. These puppies are expensive in nice condition. JMO.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAYFMT View Post
    Has anyone started a thread or considered making a sticky for T owners to list what scope(s) they need and what they have in an effort to rematch others?
    There is such a thread over on Milsurps.com. This is where the rifle that needed my scope was posted and someone who was a member on both boards made the connection, and arranged to get us together.

    I joined Milsurps earlier today specifically to have access to this info.

  17. #16
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    I made the connection between bigduke6's rifle and Ronbo6 using my research database on No. 4 (T) rifles and I notified bigduke6 who tracked down Ronbo6. I am happy that the two owners are now trying to work out an exchange. I presently have well over 1,000 No. 4 (T) serial numbered entries. Some are complete sets and many are numbered components e.g. Rifle, Bracket, Scope, scope case etc. An excellent on-line resource is Angel's Matching Service on Milsurps.com Categories there include "Rifles looking for scopes", "Scopes looking for rifles" etc.

    The U.S. ITAR regulations control movement of many military goods out of the USA. This is intended to keep military technology out of inappropriate hands e.g. Communist North Korea, Communist China, ISIS etc. Military telescopes, regardless of age and national origin it seems, are covered which could explain the earlier delay one of you experienced. A form is supposed to be filled out and approval obtained and that then speeds up the process.

    May I suggest that you two ask Brian Dick of BDL Ltd. in North Carolina USA, a trusted dealer, if he would act as your intermediary. Brian is familiar with the ITAR form and exported a Canadian made REL C No.32 MK. II scope to me for one of my Long Branch No. 4 Mk. I* (T) rifles with no problems. Brian is very familiar with the No. 32 scopes, has shipped them back and forth between the UK and US, and has a very good reputation. I also suggest that you two exchange photos of the scopes and brackets in advance of the exchange to lesson the chances of any misunderstandings or disappointments.

    As the scope in the USA is staked into a bracket, I suggest that the UK scope be sent with an original bracket. The scope in the US has been serviced by Warren Wheatfield. I do not know if the one in the U.K. has been serviced recently or not.

    Some key words to consider using are:

    - return to UK where made (for the one going to UK)
    - equal exchange for like item

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seaforth72 View Post
    I made the connection between bigduke6's rifle and Ronbo6 using my research database on No. 4 (T) rifles and I notified bigduke6 who tracked down Ronbo6. I am happy that the two owners are now trying to work out an exchange. I presently have well over 1,000 No. 4 (T) serial numbered entries. Some are complete sets and many are numbered components e.g. Rifle, Bracket, Scope, scope case etc. An excellent on-line resource is Angel's Matching Service on Milsurps.com Categories there include "Rifles looking for scopes", "Scopes looking for rifles" etc.

    The U.S. ITAR regulations control movement of many military goods out of the USA. This is intended to keep military technology out of inappropriate hands e.g. Communist North Korea, Communist China, ISIS etc. Military telescopes, regardless of age and national origin it seems, are covered which could explain the earlier delay one of you experienced. A form is supposed to be filled out and approval obtained and that then speeds up the process.

    May I suggest that you two ask Brian Dick of BDL Ltd. in North Carolina USA, a trusted dealer, if he would act as your intermediary. Brian is familiar with the ITAR form and exported a Canadian made REL C No.32 MK. II scope to me for one of my Long Branch No. 4 Mk. I* (T) rifles with no problems. Brian is very familiar with the No. 32 scopes, has shipped them back and forth between the UK and US, and has a very good reputation. I also suggest that you two exchange photos of the scopes and brackets in advance of the exchange to lesson the chances of any misunderstandings or disappointments.

    As the scope in the USA is staked into a bracket, I suggest that the UK scope be sent with an original bracket. The scope in the US has been serviced by Warren Wheatfield. I do not know if the one in the U.K. has been serviced recently or not.

    Some key words to consider using are:

    - return to UK where made (for the one going to UK)
    - equal exchange for like item


    Thanks for the above Colin, I have two No32 Mk3 scopes that I'm going to photograph and send to Ronbo6, which ever he decides I will then send to Peter Laidler, he will give the scope a once over and I will provide a complete original bracket also, it all depends if the bracket with the scope Ronbo6 sends fits my rifle ..... the fact that that the screws are staked gives some concern, but will see when it arrives.

    I've traded with Brian on a few occasions but don't think its necessary to get Brian involved, but I will ask him and Peter for advice, the main thing here is as long as its correct on the customs form etc, if its coming in for repair then I can't see a problem as it will come to my Business address so will need to be labeled correct etc, I think if its returned with in a certain time any charges here will reimbursed etc. ( I have agreed to pay for all post and charges etc, think its the least I can do for such a generous offer)

    Once I'm back home and Ronbo we can start the ball rolling........will keep you informed.

  19. #18

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    I would stick to the "Sending 71 year old scope for repair" and then "Returning 71 year old scope following repair". It worked for me and removed all tax and import duties. There is an official form that can be obtained in the UK to avoid the UK tax - worth a call to HMRC.

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