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Thread: type 5 flare gun

  1. #1
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    Default type 5 flare gun

    Hello all somes offering me a type 5 flare gun it well used but seems to be all there ,what would be a good offer on this ive never seen any to base a value on .
    Thankyou
    David

  2. #2
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    Default anyone

    im really wondering about this flare gun i cant find much about it on the web.I dont know if its the deal of the century or just a thing no one wonts .Ive been collecting for a long time know but never realy got in to that stuff.

    Thank you
    David

  3. #3
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    Default

    I just checked the book & what is a type 5 flare pistol?
    "Resistance is futile - you will be assimilated"
    The Borg

  4. #4
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    Type 5 would be the stamped sheet metal 12ga/20mm single barrel gun, I think...if so its very rare,And I think it was removed from the NFA list. Nambu world has some info on them on her site, I think...hmm I found this link on nambu worlds site...http://www.carbinesforcollectors.com/japflare.html looks like an article by DonS.Wow I hand t played around the carbines for collectors site in a while, they have some new cool articles there,I really like it.
    Last edited by davef; 10-05-2008 at 01:54 PM.

  5. #5
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    They are very rare and would exceed $2,000 in value would be my guess, but unfortunately the collector audience for this piece is fairly narrow. Don S was the person who requested and got the ATF delist it from NFA status.

  6. #6
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    According to "Collector's Guide to Imperial Japanese Handguns" by J. D. Brown (published by Schiffer) Type 5 were a sheet metal Navy issue flare gun. That book in Chapter XIII states only 2 known, serial number 50 and 121. A (the?) pair was offered at gun shows at $2500 each but no sales: estimated value between $1000 and $2000. By the way, according to this reference, this is NOT a flare gun but a 12 gauge single shot (the Type 4 was double barrel) developed at the very end of the war for guard purposes.
    This book was copyright 2007. I had never heard of these or several of the .32s featured in the book.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edokko View Post
    They are very rare and would exceed $2,000 in value would be my guess, but unfortunately the collector audience for this piece is fairly narrow. Don S was the person who requested and got the ATF delist it from NFA status.
    How is that done? I & many others would sure like to see knee mortars taken off that list without having to cut them up.
    "Resistance is futile - you will be assimilated"
    The Borg

  8. #8
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    Here are two pictures of the Japanese Ty. 5 flare pistol I sold to Don S. a few years ago. They are indeed quite rare!

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the photos. Sure makes me glad I don't collect it all
    "Resistance is futile - you will be assimilated"
    The Borg

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by doughboy1953 View Post
    According to "Collector's Guide to Imperial Japanese Handguns" by J. D. Brown (published by Schiffer) Type 5 were a sheet metal Navy issue flare gun. That book in Chapter XIII states only 2 known, serial number 50 and 121. A (the?) pair was offered at gun shows at $2500 each but no sales: estimated value between $1000 and $2000. By the way, according to this reference, this is NOT a flare gun but a 12 gauge single shot (the Type 4 was double barrel) developed at the very end of the war for guard purposes.
    This book was copyright 2007. I had never heard of these or several of the .32s featured in the book.
    It is NOT a 12G single shot, it is a FLARE GUN, the reference is incorrect.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by arisakadogs View Post
    How is that done? I & many others would sure like to see knee mortars taken off that list without having to cut them up.
    Perfectly agree with that, but I think it would be tough to pursuade them that the knee mortars are not mortars.
    On the Type 5, I believe the evidence presented was that the gun was a flare gun and documented as so and not a shotshell pistol.

  12. #12
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    Thanks for putting the prices, up I was trying to corner the market on them:-). They were indeed made as substitute weapons, to replace the pistols and submachine guns to be used for combat, for the Japanese guards at the Yokosuka Naval base. The T-4, double barrel, has documentation stating this and it is assumed that the single barrel sheetmetal pistol was a late variant of these 12 ga pistiols. All the information about these pistols was taken from an article in a Banzai issue several years ago, I don't remember the issue, and is in the new Derby-Brown pistol book. When the info came out about them being made as 12 ga. shotguns I was concerned.
    I wrote the BATF several years ago requesting that these pistols be put on the C&R listing and taken off the NFA listing. In my letter I told them that I collected Japanese pistols and Japanese flare guns and since this was a gun that might find some day for my collection I wanted it to be legal to own. In the request I included the artical that Jim had written, in Banzai, and pictures of the T-5 from Jim and Harry's book, with Jim's permission, there may have been some other details but with out pulling the file I don't remember. About 3-4 months later I received a letter from them stating that it was taken off the NFA list and was added to the C&R list. Since I already had one that was a relief:-) Mine is #280 and has the Yokosuka anchor stamped after the serial number. Also pictures are 3- WW2 vintage shotgun shells, were they used in these weapons or were there special rounds made for these? Don

  13. #13
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    Well im still trying to get back in touch with the guy to get it ive only seen a few bad pictures of it so i cant tell the condtion .I could see its missing one of the grips and bluing
    looks a little thin other than that cant tell much.Im on a limit buget for collecting and had just bought a nice 99 a month a go so wasnt certian if i should pick it up.
    Will call him tommorow and try to look at in person its hard to judge from a picture .Thanks for posting the pictures Don i tried but couldnt get it to load.
    Its really not in the area i collect so not certain were it will fit in my collection

    Thanks for the help all
    David

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by arisakadogs View Post
    How is that done? I & many others would sure like to see knee mortars taken off that list without having to cut them up.
    You should contact the ATF about it, I would do it, but I dont have a leg to stand on because of my age.
    Active Duty US Army Combat Engineer, Operation Enduring Freedom Veteran 2012-2013.

  15. #15
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    I have attached the documeents from the BATF I received in 2005 pertaining to the"T-5", there is no offical documentetion for this discription. This should clear you any questions about the legality of owning this weapon. My gun is #280 with the Yokosuka naval anchor stamped behind the serial number. It looks like I may have to do another post the first document didn't attach. Don

  16. #16
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    Doc 1, I can attach it. The size is to large , can't get it reduced in size.

  17. #17
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    So: I'm confused. Are these Type 5s (and presumably Type 4s as well) indeed a 12 gauge handgun or are they are flare gun? "Defense weapon" or "substitute for pistols, etc." would imply to me they are a weapon but the Germans, et al advertised their Scheintodt type tear gas/signal pistols as defense weapons I believe.
    I think I'd hesitate to SHOOT any sort of 12 gauge shotgun shell in it but I suppose you could down load it, load with black powder, etc.

    For the era, 12 gauge seemed awfully small for flare guns: to my knowledge the US 10 gauge guns were the smallest military flare guns of the era and other combatants (including Japanese) were using 1" and 1-1/2" or metric equivalents.

  18. #18
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    I certainly wouldn't want to be the person shooting that pistol loaded with a shotgun shell! Ouch my wrist!

  19. #19
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    Here are two photos of the German Model M42 stamped steel flare gun (from the "ima" web site). Could be were the Japanese got the idea for theirs? Also, Early in the war the Germans had a rifled barrel flare gun which could be used to shoot flares or rifle grenades.
    The two late war Japanese flare guns shown in this thread have sights, why would they have sights if there were meant to be a flare gun only, no other Japanese flare gun has sights, that I know of.
    David Franchi




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