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Mauser-DWM Contract sales to China - Jon Speed

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#1 ·
Jon Speed asked me to post up a series of pictures covering the Modell98 rifles contracted from Mauser Oberndorf and DWM in the pre-WWI era. The following are Jon Speed's words:

Paul, I was going over my glass plate Image files and others for some stuff I sent John Wall years ago when he asked about China Mausers, The glass plate images I have are of the 2 Mauser firm Reference collection China Model 1907 Rifle in rare 6,8mm and Cav, carbine 1907 in 6,8mm. I had also sent John some other pics that are no longer in my files so I took some time to redo these to show more or less the Entire China 98 system arms up through 1914 in 12 pics total including the 1904-07 period pics of 3 China inspectors in Oberndorf along with Original hand ink signed Visiting card from one of these guys. Then the WFM /DWM Catalog description and color image of Rifle Model 1907 Cal. 6,8mm with Ballistic data chart showing bullet travel out to extreme ranges.

Then a super rare 1910 Commemorative China Catalog with China text along with German text on Mauser firm history and images of the arms like C 96 that China purchased in large numbers then I have the sales chart that shows all 98 rifle and carbine sales through 1910 then 1913 order for 12,000 Rifles 6,8mm. Then notes from Cartel files that show the 12,000 rifles were turned over to German Military as WW1 started etc. All this info in 12 images. I own the Rifle 1907 Reference 6,8mm example SN 4, What is unique with these rifles is that barrel is 42mm longer than the 740mm G 98 barrel sp 782 mm total. For me way over long to carry around. Anyway, I saw a man on site talk about his China made 1907 copy so I thought maybe folks would,like to see all that John had filed away but was saving for any next edition of Ball to out it in etc, Jon

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Paul, first 4 China docs, Jon

1. Photo of 3 China inspectors around 1904-07 period holding in fact what appear to be Model 1903 rifles with Intermediate actions with the high clip guide feature similar to the Turk 1903 in caliber 7.65, Pic is at Oberndrof shooting range. The red paper at left is original visiting note from one of these men done in ink.
2. Special Commemorative booklet made by Mauser firm as gift to a China Commission group in 1910. The text inside describes the factory and shows Paul Mauser and some of the arms types offered like C96 and the New Model 1907 China rifle in 6,8mm. Chinese text from the German is also included
3. Inside shows PM
4. Image of the China rifle 6,8mm

As result of this visit China ordered 12,000 More Rifles in 1913.
 

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#2 ·
Paul, Here are first 2 glass plate images of Reference China arms, Jon

1. Rifle Model designated 1907 in caliber 6,8X57. Has a Large WFM in Round form on right side of stock. The Chinese preferred the smaller calibers which had more velocity etc, What is of note here is rifle shown has a barrel of 782mm some 42mm longer than G 98. Actual production rifles had these extra long barrels and then some rifles had normal 740mm barrels. China rifles used standard length actions, its possible the China folks realized the longer rifles for their generally short men were to clumsy to carry around

2. Model 1907 Cav, Carbine in 6,8mm. At same time Mauser used similar examples for the Paraguay Contract which used longer ring Intermediate actions, and again in 1908 for Turkish carbines. Note this China Reference carbines has a semi finished stock. The Paraguay Model has Mauser banner in right side of stock,

All the rest of pics are of docs so will come in groups of 4 and 3 etc in 3 more EM .
 

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#3 ·
Paul, nest 3 pics China, Jon

1. Booklet cover for the new Model 1907 Rifle for China

2. Inside color pic of Mauser Model 1907 in 6,8mm shown with 42mm longer barrel. The Chinese decided they did not want this length so all production versions used Standard 740mm barrels found on G 98, note the bullet flight path chart at bottom and ammo data lower right

3. Original Mauser Sales Chart shows all China Model Rifles and Carbine in 8mm, 7mm and 6,8mm up to 1910 period. The last order came in 1913 and will be seen in next EM docs.
 

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#4 ·
Paul, here are last 3 China story docs, Jon

1. Yearly report shows 12,000 Rifles for China ordered

2. Cartel 1st quarter file note shows 12,000 Model 1907 Models ordered by Mauser China Rep. Carlowitz in Hamburg. Carlowitz was a major China and Asia Exporter through WW2

3. Cartel notes shows the 12,000 China rifle turned over the German Military who converted most of these to 8mm etc.

I will send last EM with descriptions all the markings found on these various China 98 rifles and carbines that I have data on.
 

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#5 ·
Paul, I thought you might like to see an Actual Cartel Contract between DWM / WFM with the 2 Main China Dealers for both firms within the Cartel group of DWM -WFM-FN-STEYR. These 2 firms handled most of the C96 and Rifle, Carbine, Ammo deals as well as other products etc.

The Cartel was a complex organization that spent Lawyer time and money arguing with each other on who owed what, for how many and who made the deals etc. I have 5 pounds of docs just on these issues from 1898-1914. The docs are cool because all the Mauser files back up all the sales figures and shows what groups sold whatever etc etc. For DWM and FN it only shows total numbers but for Steyr it shows how many and to who which is big help for Steyr Folks.
 

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#13 ·
Mr. Speed,
As stated by others, thank you very much for taking the time to study and disseminate this information. I am curious about the mix of actions used for this contract. It sounds almost as though Mauser was using up spare parts, many that seem to be left over export rifles. This along with many of the Lockhaven examples being 7x57 was what made me curious. Was this particular to the China contract, cutting costs, or otherwise to meet specifications?
The Cartel was a complex organization that spent Lawyer time and money arguing with each other on who owed what, for how many and who made the deals etc. I have 5 pounds of docs just on these issues from 1898-1914.
I am sure this is a treasure trove, albeit boring, treasure trove of information. I am sure the dynamic of competing companies can be entertaining at times. I worked for a large German firm and the competition was fierce between companies that were all on "the same team". Even between facilities of the same concern.
Luckily, with Gunboards long history and presence, this material will be with us long after we are all gone. (hopefully)
Absolutely. And the more that is shared, the more the likelihood that it will carry on. That is the beauty of this website. When I was a child, books on Mausers were few and far between. Smith, a snippet here or there in Arms and the Man, some information in Howe, Simmons and Vickery, but nothing like the fine detailed books available today. I was stunned at a local auction a young man, 14 or 15 was looking over a 98M with his father and he was pointing out various details about the rifle, makers, markings, etc.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Hans Lockhoven's observations

Paul, one more item of data on China rifles are the Markings and SN found on these so here is list from the examples I have from Lockhoven negatives he made years ago. As can be seen there is quite some variations here as Mauser used up receivers and parts on China contracts. That's all for now. Regards, Jon



1- WFM/1907 Ring
Cal. 7x57
Intermediate long ring action
Mod 04 on wall
SN - Bu 16i

Has the 42mm longer barrel which was dropped on all production examples. Mauser reference example



2- WFM/1907
Cal. 6.8
Standard action
Mod 04 on wall
SN- BU 76903



3. WFM/1907
Cal.7x57
Intermediate action
Sn -BU 3946



4. WFM/1907
Cal.6.8
Standard action
blank wall
SN-4i

Has longer barrel. Mauser Reference example



5. WFM /1913
Cal.6.8
Standard action
Mod 1907 wall
No SN in view

BU proofs at wood line

This was from last Contract in 1913 and is a Reference example. All 12,000 of these in 6.8 were taken over by German Military and re barreld to 8X57 as WW! started.



6. WFM /1907
Cal. 7x57
Intermediate action
Mod 1904 wall
SN . BU 76697



7. WFM / 1904
Cal. 8X57
Standard action
Blank wall
SN. BU 1009

This was one of the run over examples from First China sale and was kept as Reference example at Mauser



8. WFM / 1908
Cal. 8X57
Standard action
Mauser Mod 1907 wall
SN. BU 6331




 
#20 ·
Details of Construction of Chinese M1907 Cav Carbine in 6,8/7,9 calibres

Paul, one more item of data on China rifles are the Markings and SN found on these so here is list from the examples I have from Lockhoven negatives he made years ago. As can be seen there is quite some variations here as Mauser used up receivers and parts on China contracts. That's all for now. Regards, Jon



1- WFM/1907 Ring
Cal. 7x57
Intermediate long ring action
Mod 04 on wall
SN - Bu 16i

Has the 42mm longer barrel which was dropped on all production examples. Mauser reference example



2- WFM/1907
Cal. 6.8
Standard action
Mod 04 on wall
SN- BU 76903



3. WFM/1907
Cal.7x57
Intermediate action
Sn -BU 3946



4. WFM/1907
Cal.6.8
Standard action
blank wall
SN-4i

Has longer barrel. Mauser Reference example



5. WFM /1913
Cal.6.8
Standard action
Mod 1907 wall
No SN in view

BU proofs at wood line

This was from last Contract in 1913 and is a Reference example. All 12,000 of these in 6.8 were taken over by German Military and re barreld to 8X57 as WW! started.



6. WFM /1907
Cal. 7x57
Intermediate action
Mod 1904 wall
SN . BU 76697



7. WFM / 1904
Cal. 8X57
Standard action
Blank wall
SN. BU 1009

This was one of the run over examples from First China sale and was kept as Reference example at Mauser



8. WFM / 1908
Cal. 8X57
Standard action
Mauser Mod 1907 wall
SN. BU 6331




I have what may have been ( originally) a Chinese-Made M1907 Carbine in 7,9mm; It has been "bubbatised" ( In China) to a short stocked (M1 Carbine styled Length) and a Modified "H" band fitted to hold barrel to forewood

The action and remaining stock reflect the photos of the many M1907 Carbines/short rifles seen in 1930s and 40s Publications ( Cavalry, Officer Cadets, etc) The Action seems to be a Standard Length M98 action, the Rear sight a copy of the Short Rifle/Carbine Sight, and the Foresight the M93/95 Pattern used on "Ear-Protected Muzzle caps" of the M94/95/05/08 Type Carbines.

I wish to make a ( Museum/Shooting quality) Reproduction of the M1907, both in 7,9mm ( barrels modified from Kar98/M1943/ others) and in 6,8mm ( re-turn a .270 barrel and re-chamber).

What was the definitive Receiver type on the M1907 as originally conceived (6,8 version)? Standard or Intermediate?

Any help here would be appreciated...I already have a stock design ( a M1908 Turk Engineer Short Rifle, Captured 1915) so I can stock-copy it. (Terrco 4 spindle copier) but since the Turk is "Intermediate" I may have to copy a M1909 Argy stock (Standard rec.)

Receivers are not a problem, I have plenty of M1903 Turk receivers (Intermediate) and M98 ( standard) receivers available as a Base for starting to assemble Correct representations of Both types as required.

I also have a moderate stock of Norma FMJ .270 Projectiles in two weights. ( I suppose the early 6,8 rounds were Flat based spitzers, or where they roundnose?....there is also a 6,8x60 ,mentioned in Woodin and?Datig?)
As to 6,8 ammo, I have already made dies by Modifying some .270 Win dies to get the correct shoulder and neck sizing from 7x57 cases...the cases will fireform in a correct chamber.

AS to Markings, I will put definitive "AVB" Markings and Date of assembly to prevent any misinterpretations after I have gone.

Doc AV
 
#23 ·
Jon Speed is alive and he does possess many documents on the subject and period. The destruction at Mauser Oberndorf was not complete, first there was a train that escaped Mauser and ended up in the hands of the US Army and many German workers saved documents that they thought were important and could get to safety. Over decades Jon Speed and Hans Lockhoven (and others in their circle) accumulated these collections and over time they ended up in Jon Speed's hands. He has been using the collection to write books and to assist other researchers and specialists in their projects. Almost every book (good ones anyway) on German Mauser's, military or contract sales, have Jon Speed's hand in them...

The French authorities (and individual looters) did take large amounts of material and the Mauser gun collection back to France, but in the 1970's the French government returned much of it to the rightful owners. But it is probably true that most of the documents were destroyed during the occupation.
 
#26 · (Edited)
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