MY CZ-82 is NOT drop safe
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Thread: MY CZ-82 is NOT drop safe

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    Default MY CZ-82 is NOT drop safe

    I meant to post this a while ago, but had a lot going on at the time(Grandma/Grandfather passing, etc.) First off, I'd like to start by letting it be known that I am a huge advocate of firearm safety. I grew up around firearms, have taken many firearm safety classes/courses, and am VERY strict about following ALL firearm safety rules and precautions. Like me, I know many of you like to carry the CZ-82 Makarov variant pistols. Particularly, for Winter CCW. As such, I feel a moral obligation to share this story with you. This incident took place in late October 2016.

    I came home from work late one night and on the way stopped to pick up some groceries for dinner. After loading most of the groceries from my car, I remembered that I still needed to bring in my beloved CZ. It's normally on my person, but I do usually carry a backup, as well. So, sometimes it's left in the glovebox. Seeing that there were a few neighbors outside, I rolled the CZ in a towel to carry it in(Yes, I now realize this was a mistake). As I was opening the backdoor of my Jeep Cherokee(To grab the last grocery bag), I fumbled the towel and the CZ and towel dropped to the ground. I look down and all of a sudden-- BANG!!! The CZ had drop fired!! I couldn't believe it.. Worst of all it was pointed upwards and probably inches from my face(I saw the blast). I (frantically) checked my body for entry/exit wounds, but luckily had not been hit. I then took out the mag, cleared the round(Condition 4), and grabbed the now spent casing off the ground. After getting inside, I inspected the (Hornady Critical Defense FTX) casing and sure enough the firing pin had striked the primer just hard enough to detonate. I also inspected the gun and there was also a mark on the tip of hammer where it had landed just right to push down the firing pin.

    I guess the lesson learned here is.. First off, never rollup your loaded firearm in a towel or shirt or really put it in ANY situation where it may not be completely secure. While an incident like this seems unlikely, all it takes is ONE time to have a freak accident and ruin yours or someone else's life. Freak accidents happen every single day people. So, there's never such a thing as being "too safe" while handling firearms. Secondly, I'm not here to tell you your CZ-82 isn't safe to carry. That's a judgement call only you can make. I'm just here to warn people and share my story. Personally, I will never again trust a gun with a free floating firing pin(And no internal safety block), to be carried with a round chambered. I know this is just one incident, but if it happens once it can happen again. Btw for those interested, I was carrying in Condition 2- (Round chambered, hammer down, safety off). In other words, I was relying on the double action first pull. From everything I had read this gun was supposed to be safe to carry this way. And yes, I do realize things probably would've been different had it been "Cocked & Locked" or Condition 1- (Round chambered, hammer back, safety on) But now I just can't trust this gun with a round chambered. For now on, I carry it Condition 3- (No round chambered, hammer down). That said, I do trust my life with my normal Makarovs in Condition 2. I hope this information is helpful and maybe prevents another incident like this from happening. Be safe, my friends.

    -Mike V
    Last edited by North Bender; 01-12-2017 at 09:38 AM. Reason: OP's Request

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    Wow man. Glad you're ok!
    I sold a CZ50 to a guy years ago who the same night, dropped it fully loaded on his kitchen floor and put a 7.65mm hole in his ankle.
    I found out about this by his wife calling me from the hospital and accusing me of selling him a "dangerous gun ". The gun was in perfect shape. It just isn't designed to be dropped on its hammer from 4 feet. He called me the next day and apologized that his wife freaked out on me. He acknowledged it was his negligence.

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    It is just me, but I never carry with a round chambered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson Hornet View Post
    It is just me, but I never carry with a round chambered.
    I'd assumed that with one in the chamber AND the safety on that a drop couldn't cause that round to go off. Bad assumption?

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by 45collector View Post
    Wow man. Glad you're ok!
    I sold a CZ50 to a guy years ago who the same night, dropped it fully loaded on his kitchen floor and put a 7.65mm hole in his ankle.
    I found out about this by his wife calling me from the hospital and accusing me of selling him a "dangerous gun ". The gun was in perfect shape. It just isn't designed to be dropped on its hammer from 4 feet. He called me the next day and apologized that his wife freaked out on me. He acknowledged it was his negligence.
    Thanks, man. It was definitely a close one. Wow, that's scary. I'm sure a hole in the ankle is no fun, but I suppose it could've always been worse.

    To HH: I don't blame you one bit! I know a few people who carry that way(My Father included). You can never be too safe. I will say though that nowadays most gun manufacturers are very safety conscious. Glock, Ruger, and S&W are the first to come to mind..

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    I carry my Makarov a round in the chamber, safety on. I am never concerned.

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    I am curious
    You can have the CZ 82 COCKED & LOCKED? I didnt know there was a double action that could be in that condition . Does it have a decock lever or just a safety?

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    The Star Ultrastar can also be carried cocked and locked or not. It is DA also.
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    Do you own a Cz-82 with a free floating firing pin?
    I'm always looking for rare varieties of 9x18 ammunition.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by o b juan View Post
    I am curious
    You can have the CZ 82 COCKED & LOCKED? I didnt know there was a double action that could be in that condition . Does it have a decock lever or just a safety?
    Yes, you can carry "cocked & locked". Just a safety. You have to manual decock it with the trigger.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    Do you own a Cz-82 with a free floating firing pin?
    Nope. You're right. My bad(I'm somewhat new to the CZ's). Just took it apart and sure enough there's a spring. If anything, shouldn't the spring have helped?

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    "For now on, I carry it Condition 3- (No round chambered, hammer down, safety on)"
    How do you get the safety on with the hammer down? Mine don't work that way.
    Appalachain American

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by TENNESSEEAN View Post
    "For now on, I carry it Condition 3- (No round chambered, hammer down, safety on)"
    How do you get the safety on with the hammer down? Mine don't work that way.
    Damnit. That's really weird. I edited my post twice now when I went back and noticed it included safety. For some reason it keeps appearing. Anyways, no safety.

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    "I will never again trust a gun with a free floating firing pin(And no internal safety block)"
    The trigger is the internal safety block, unless the trigger is back the hammer can not contact the firing pin. Try the pencil test if you don't believe me.
    Appalachain American

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    Quote Originally Posted by TENNESSEEAN View Post
    "I will never again trust a gun with a free floating firing pin(And no internal safety block)"
    The trigger is the internal safety block, unless the trigger is back the hammer can not contact the firing pin. Try the pencil test if you don't believe me.
    I believe you but that "trigger safety block" was obviously not enough as my gun DID infact fire when dropped. Perhaps my gun is defective idk..

  17. #16

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    Just did my own little test.. And it appears when I hit the hammer just right on the ground the slide comes back and does indeed contact the firing pin! I imagine the same could happen by dropping it on the muzzle. This gun is not safe fellas.

  18. #17

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    Put it in a holster with a thumb break and this wouldn't have happened, if it did. This pistols is supposed to be drop safe.


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  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by o b juan View Post
    I am curious
    You can have the CZ 82 COCKED & LOCKED? I didnt know there was a double action that could be in that condition . Does it have a decock lever or just a safety?
    Yes, you can have a round chambered and safety on.



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    Quote Originally Posted by StlMakGuy24 View Post
    Just did my own little test.. And it appears when I hit the hammer just right on the ground the slide comes back and does indeed contact the firing pin! I imagine the same could happen by dropping it on the muzzle. This gun is not safe fellas.
    The CZ82 is a pretty complicated gun. It has many internal parts and if you've never taken one apart before, you would be absolutely lost looking at a photo of an exploded diagram. Is it possible your particular gun has some well worn parts? These are surplus guns and like any such gun, we really have no idea how much use they saw before coming to our hands. The CZ82 I had years ago would randomly "slip" during DA trigger pull. Meaning, I would pull the trigger from the hammer forward position, the hammer would start to cock but then drop about 30% through the trigger pull and the trigger would pull all the way to the rear. It would not fire a round of course, as the hammer didn't have enough momentum to touch off a round. But it was maddening trying to figure it out. I took that gun down to every last spring and pin, and couldn't figure out what the problem was. And I've fixed a lot of guns. I ended up selling it with full disclosure and just stuck with the Makarovs. I'm a believer in "simpler is better" for sure. Things may have changed since I had the CZ but I recall not having much luck finding new replacement parts for that gun. I think you can buy CZ83 replacement parts but not all are quite the same as the military guns.

    I have nothing against Czech guns, they are very well made. I've had: CZ27, CZ50, CZ52 and CZ82. I ended up selling them all.

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    But the Makarovs can't fire when dropped with the safety on? If not, why are they safer?

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    I think you need to get your CZ 82 checked out. They have a hammer block that prevents the hammer from hitting the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled. The hammer block is there just for people that drop their pistols.

    You can check this on an EMPTY gun.
    With the hammer down - try to push it to touch the firing pin. You should find it can't do that because of the block.
    Now (check again to be sure it is empty) pull the trigger and hold it back. The hammer will end up in the same place, a little bit off the firing pin, but now you should be able to push the hammer to the firing pin. You should feel spring resistance.
    Now let up on the trigger and once again you should not be able to push the hammer forward because of the block.

    Your title is misleading. Your particular CZ 82 is not safe but that is not a good reason to say that about all CZ 82 pistols.

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    This incident would convince me to carry a different handgun. Drop a Glock that has a round in the chamber and you will not have the same experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by southfork View Post
    But the Makarovs can't fire when dropped with the safety on? If not, why are they safer?
    It sounds like the OP's CZ82 experienced a failure. If the gun was dropped directly on the hammer spur, driving it forward to the firing pin, something failed internally.
    If a Makarov were dropped on it's hammer with the safety on, the hammer should not touch the firing pin if the gun is in spec. The inertia could drive the firing pin into the primer (if there was a round in the chamber) but it is generally accepted the the firing pin on a Mak doesn't have enough mass for it to ignite a primer on inertia alone. Now if you dropped it from 2 stories and it landed muzzle-first? Maybe. I dunno, and I won't be the one to try it.

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    My CZ82 (1986) indeed has a hammer block, making it drop safe. The OP's gun may have been modified for trigger work, or is simply
    broken.
    I have had mine completely apart and it is quite a bear to re-assemble. It began experiencing double fire...! The disconnector was
    worn below spec. That was one of my first attempts at gunsmithing my own pistol. The problem is fixed, new disconnector, (rather strange design, by the way). I sure hope I never have to go in it again.
    I love my CZ82. I typically carry it loaded chamber, hammer down (no safety), as I don't trust the safety lever on mine. It comes off safe rather easily and I was unable to easily correct the problem when I had it tore down. No interest in going back into it.
    It should not fire if dropped........................
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    http://leolani.net/relics/cz82.html
    Real good description of teardown/re-assembly, with great pics. Clearly shows the hammer
    block that is referred to as the "automatic safety".
    The CZ82 is indeed "drop safe" by design. I think the OP's gun needs repair, if desired to correct it.
    The fundamental force behind the Second Amendment is to empower the people and give them the greatest measure of authority over the tyranny of runaway government.

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    That's really scary. I carry a CZ82 as a back up a lot. Hammer down on a cartridge. I remember reading that these guns were dropped tested before importation and were deemed as safe as currently manufactured U.S. handguns. It was probably five years ago or more so I don't remember the source. Could it have been a defective part?

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    Does anyone know where to find a slide stop spring as shown it the picture? Numrich is sold out. There was a member on a forum that sold these years ago but not sure which forum.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 49.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by JFK52 View Post
    This incident would convince me to carry a different handgun. Drop a Glock that has a round in the chamber and you will not have the same experience.

    +1. I've dropped two different glocks for a total of three drops. All were in the bathroom when I picked up my holster and it slipped out of my hands. Dropped directly on tile floor and nothing happened all three times. A friend of mine (I wouldn't recommend this) purposely threw his Glock on a concrete floor and nothing happened

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brasky View Post
    +1. I've dropped two different glocks for a total of three drops. All were in the bathroom when I picked up my holster and it slipped out of my hands. Dropped directly on tile floor and nothing happened all three times. A friend of mine (I wouldn't recommend this) purposely threw his Glock on a concrete floor and nothing happened
    You could try some skateboard tape - or some of those gloves worn by wide receivers in the NFL - or use the lanyard loop for an actual lanyard.

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    Is it possible the firing pin rebounded against the primer just because of the shock of the drop? The hammer need not strike the firing pin for it to move against its spring. I know this can happen with M1911 pistols. That's why they tell you to put in a stiffer firing pin spring if you convert to 45 Super. People have experienced doubling if they fail to do this because of the greater recoiling slide velocity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StlMakGuy24 View Post
    Just did my own little test.. And it appears when I hit the hammer just right on the ground the slide comes back and does indeed contact the firing pin! I imagine the same could happen by dropping it on the muzzle. This gun is not safe fellas.
    I wonder if this is it, actually. Notice he says that the "slide comes back and contacts the firing pin." If the RECOIL SPRING is weak, then the slide, with the round stuck to the breech face, could indeed come back with enough force (that slide has LOTS of inertia) to ram the firing pin into the fixed hammer and cause the round to go off, rather than having the hammer forced beyond/over the interlock to hit the firing pin.

    Thoughts? Just an idea here....


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    Quote Originally Posted by 45collector View Post
    Wow man. Glad you're ok!
    I sold a CZ50 to a guy years ago who the same night, dropped it fully loaded on his kitchen floor and put a 7.65mm hole in his ankle.
    I found out about this by his wife calling me from the hospital and accusing me of selling him a "dangerous gun ". The gun was in perfect shape. It just isn't designed to be dropped on its hammer from 4 feet. He called me the next day and apologized that his wife freaked out on me. He acknowledged it was his negligence.
    Small world as I bought that gun from him and used it as an auction item for my Pan Mass Challenge fundraising! Hi 45collector.

  36. #35

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    I'm sure a few of you may have doubts as to whether my account is geniune or not. Well, I can tell you I certainly have no reason to embellish. I'm a huge fan of all Maks(I even own a Bulgy Mak that's soon to be published) and am big fan of CZ's, too. So, I'm in no way trying to dog this particular pistol. I just feel it's important to pass on this information(So others don't put themselves in danger). I didn't mean to mislead with the title either. Btw, this topicI found has been discussed before on the official CZ forum(link below). Guy starts by asking if an 82 is safe to drop on muzzle(And mentions trigger mechanism but lack of true safety block) and that he's heard some firearms can still fire without the hammer making contact with the firing pin. Other guy says he answers his own question(trigger mech a.ka. "automatic safety") and another guy chimes in that he guesses the firing pin spring would prevent this in the CZ. Well, my incident proves the OP's concern was valid. I am certain this gun can drop fire, and it is not by the hammer contacting the firing pin but rather the firing pin contacting the hammer. The trigger mechanism "automatic safety" nor the firing pin spring prevents this contact. I am pretty certain of this. My gun(Like all my guns)has been looked at by a certified gunsmith and has had zero malfunctions, etc.. As much as I hate to say it I think this is a design flaw.

    Link: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=30377.0
    Last edited by StlMakGuy24; 01-11-2017 at 07:25 PM.

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattking72 View Post
    I wonder if this is it, actually. Notice he says that the "slide comes back and contacts the firing pin." If the RECOIL SPRING is weak, then the slide, with the round stuck to the breech face, could indeed come back with enough force (that slide has LOTS of inertia) to ram the firing pin into the fixed hammer and cause the round to go off, rather than having the hammer forced beyond/over the interlock to hit the firing pin.

    Thoughts? Just an idea here....

    Yes! Yes! This is it.. I think you're absolutely right about the re-coil spring being a bit weak(Although I haven't yet experienced any malfunctions), but I do think this is a design flaw. Perhaps, I can make a video to show exactly what I'm talking about. I will mention also, although the "auto safety" does block the hammer from falling, it does still come forward just a smidget. I believe that, coupled with the inertia of the slide, is just enough to cause ignition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson Hornet View Post
    It is just me, but I never carry with a round chambered.
    +1 to this.

    Sorry folks but all the technicalities and ifs and buts in the world ain't gonna matter if your weapon discharges and the round makes contact with you or another human.

    The only drop safe gun is one without a round in front of the firing pin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattking72 View Post
    I wonder if this is it, actually. Notice he says that the "slide comes back and contacts the firing pin." If the RECOIL SPRING is weak, then the slide, with the round stuck to the breech face, could indeed come back with enough force (that slide has LOTS of inertia) to ram the firing pin into the fixed hammer and cause the round to go off, rather than having the hammer forced beyond/over the interlock to hit the firing pin.

    Thoughts? Just an idea here....

    The hammer wouldn't be "fixed" if the safety was off, as described. The slide would start to move the hammer backwards in the process of trying to cock the pistol. If the OP thinks the gun will discharge out of battery, then that is a problem. A gunsmith may have certified the firearm "safe", but a 4' or so drop, of a two pound gun to the hammer may have defeated the safety aspect, and the pistol would be a candidate for a return trip to the gunsmith. I agree with the OP, that gun is unsafe. Also, there seems to be some confusion between a hammer drop and a muzzle drop. Just my thoughts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JFK52 View Post
    This incident would convince me to carry a different handgun. Drop a Glock that has a round in the chamber and you will not have the same experience.

    I see your not very familiar with the history of Glock's. Glock had a recall (they always lie and call it an upgrade) that was because the passive firing pin safety was failing on some guns (two of my Glocks according to their serial number range were affected. I called Glock and they verified this) When guns like this hit the floor the guns would fire and to make it even worse they had yet another recall (again they lied and called it an upgrade) and this problem was that when you dropped the gun the frame would flex and the slide would fly off the gun and sometimes the bouncing slide would fire off the round in the chamber. Glock went through a series of frame rails (carbide rail) of different lengths but they never did get it right because I just got done reading several months ago that one of their latest models (sorry I cannot remember which one at the moment) was losing its slide in a fall as well. This problem with Glock has been going on since my Guns were made way back in the 1980's. Its not new news except of course for the latest recalll (upgrade). And if you have one of the old, old style magazines made before they put a detent in the middle of the floor plate, those magazines will fly apart if you drop them on concrete as I have seen this happen.

    I think the moral of the story is any gun that is used a lot will have wear on its parts (assuming its not defective from the factory like the Glocks have been) and when you get a lot of wear the gun can become dangerous even to handle let alone drop on the ground. People have the mistaken assumption you never have to clean a gun or lube it and it will never wear out and it will last forever. A worn or dirty gun or combination thereof is a prescription for disaster but you will never convince Jethro of this until he makes a fatal mistake with one and then its too late. And if you buy a used gun you never know what idiotic things the original owner may have done to the gun, such as grinding on the sear or hammer or attempting to polish up the parts not knowing what the hell he was even doing..

    With some guns you can indeed reinstall parts in the wrong position or fail to even re-install all of the parts as well. A friend of mine put back together one of the most complicated shotguns ever made, a Browning A5 and he had done this perhaps 6 or 7 times before but this time he reinstalled the carrier and a corresponding part incorrectly. The gun then worked only as a single shot and was not dangerous but he had to tear that gun back down and try and figure out what went wrong and it encompassed the better part of 2 days and 3 trips to the range.

  41. #40

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    No, there's no confusion. Well at least not on my end. My point of posting the cz forum post was that the guy had heard of guns firing without the hammer contacting the firing pin. Which in this case the firing pin is contacting the hammer.

    Btw slimjim: Just saw your post on the CZ forum. The safety wasn't engaged. It can only be engaged in single action(Which I'm sure you know). I'm really starting to think I maybe shouldn't have posted this.. Carry the gun however you want people

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    Quote Originally Posted by TENNESSEEAN View Post
    "I will never again trust a gun with a free floating firing pin(And no internal safety block)"
    The trigger is the internal safety block, unless the trigger is back the hammer can not contact the firing pin. Try the pencil test if you don't believe me.

    The CZ82 IS 'Drop Safe', if yours went off, well, you have problems, bet you also have issues with reset??? the hammer block, which is tensioned by the opposite leg of the sear spring is just one a few internal safeties on the 82, don't believe me, try taking one apart, just KNOW how to put it back together, that is one of two springs you will be cussing (the other is the slide release - depending on series)

    So... please have your gun checked out by a competent gun smith, I would suggest calling CZUSA

    Also, on the 'slide moving to meet the hammer'
    doesn't work that way, see the geometry of the slide/hammer is such, that if the slide is BACK (read out of battery) the hammer will contact the bottom of the rear of the slide, this is a designed safety feature. Pretty much every rebounding hammer semi uses a version of this, hell, even the AR 15 uses it, it's why it won't fire if the hammer rides the bolt forward.
    Last edited by Mosinitis; 01-11-2017 at 08:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StlMakGuy24 View Post
    Yes! Yes! This is it.. I think you're absolutely right about the re-coil spring being a bit weak(Although I haven't yet experienced any malfunctions), but I do think this is a design flaw. Perhaps, I can make a video to show exactly what I'm talking about. I will mention also, although the "auto safety" does block the hammer from falling, it does still come forward just a smidget. I believe that, coupled with the inertia of the slide, is just enough to cause ignition.
    If this happened it would be an out of battery discharge. Did the case show any signs of that? Any bulging in the side near the rim? It would have to be fairly close to the rim since it could not have been very far back out of battery. Or maybe a line around the case near the rim indicating the pressure forced it against the rim of the chamber?
    It would not have to show signs but if it did that would be real evidence of what happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StlMakGuy24 View Post
    No, there's no confusion. Well at least not on my end. My point of posting the cz forum post was that the guy had heard of guns firing without the hammer contacting the firing pin. Which in this case the firing pin is contacting the hammer.

    Btw slimjim: Just saw your post on the CZ forum. The safety wasn't engaged. It can only be engaged in single action(Which I'm sure you know). I'm really starting to think I maybe shouldn't have posted this.. Carry the gun however you want people
    I think you did right and definitely should have posted this. If nothing else hopefully it will cause some to check to make sure their hammer block is not damaged or worn too much and is functioning properly.

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    TENNESSEEAN is offline Super Moderator / Diamond Bullet with oak leaves member
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    Question for the OP, what was the position of the slide after this happened?
    Appalachain American

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    If this happened it would be an out of battery discharge. Did the case show any signs of that? Any bulging in the side near the rim? It would have to be fairly close to the rim since it could not have been very far back out of battery. Or maybe a line around the case near the rim indicating the pressure forced it against the rim of the chamber?
    It would not have to show signs but if it did that would be real evidence of what happened.
    That was the first thing I checked for and oddly enough no bulging or lines were present. The primer strike wasn't quite as deep as usual but certainly enough to cause ignition.
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    I think you did right and definitely should have posted this. If nothing else hopefully it will cause some to check to make sure their hammer block is not damaged or worn too much and is functioning properly.
    Thanks, I just don't want to be known as the guy who dogs CZ-82's. Unfortunately, I know every forum has "that guy" who just there to rain on everyone's party. That's not my intention. In fact, I'm still carrying my 82 as I type this.

    Quote Originally Posted by TENNESSEEAN View Post
    Question for the OP, what was the position of the slide after this happened?
    The pistol ejected the round, and chambered a new one. No hangups.

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