MY CZ-82 is NOT drop safe - Page 2
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Thread: MY CZ-82 is NOT drop safe

  1. #46
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    "The pistol ejected the round, and chambered a new one. No hangups."
    Now I'm really confused, how can this happen with a blow back pistol and nothing is holding the frame so the slide can move backwards eject a spent case then move forward and chamber a new round. blow back pistols are notorious for fouling up when limp wristed.
    Appalachain American

  2. #47

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    Okay guys I made a YT clip to try to show what's happening here. Keep in mind this is on a soft surface(carpet) and the pencil I found unfornately had no eraser(less bounce). As you can see, the firing pin is making contact. The "auto safety" does indeed work but as mentioned it still does move forward a smidge.

    Link: https://youtu.be/Fj-7wV_ekvk

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    You can only hope the bad guys will give you enough time to chamber a round if you carry w/o one in the pipe.
    Laugh hard and often.

    Gary

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  5. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattking72 View Post
    I wonder if this is it, actually. Notice he says that the "slide comes back and contacts the firing pin." If the RECOIL SPRING is weak, then the slide, with the round stuck to the breech face, could indeed come back with enough force (that slide has LOTS of inertia) to ram the firing pin into the fixed hammer and cause the round to go off, rather than having the hammer forced beyond/over the interlock to hit the firing pin.

    Thoughts? Just an idea here....

    Nope. Still would not fire. If the slide comes back .100" or so, for the hammer to hit the FP, at that time, the FP is also .100" away from the primer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHall View Post
    Nope. Still would not fire. If the slide comes back .100" or so, for the hammer to hit the FP, at that time, the FP is also .100" away from the primer.
    Nope, the extractor pulls the cartridge back with it.

  7. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by StlMakGuy24 View Post
    Okay guys I made a YT clip to try to show what's happening here. Keep in mind this is on a soft surface(carpet) and the pencil I found unfornately had no eraser(less bounce). As you can see, the firing pin is making contact. The "auto safety" does indeed work but as mentioned it still does move forward a smidge.

    Link: https://youtu.be/Fj-7wV_ekvk
    It does not matter. If/when the slide is moving rearward, say around .100", to cause the hammer to contact the FP, at that time, the FP will have also moved the same .100" away from the primer.

    I agree with others here, your CZ82 is defective.

  8. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    Nope, the extractor pulls the cartridge back with it.
    Then the shell case would be severely damaged when fired .100" out of chamber. Soo to the OP, is the spent shell casing deformed?

  9. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    Nope, the extractor pulls the cartridge back with it.
    Bingo.

  10. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by JHall View Post
    Then the shell case would be severely damaged when fired .100" out of chamber. Soo to the OP, is the spent shell casing deformed?
    Oddly there was no bulging, etc. Below is pic of slide back against the slightly forward hammer. Your estimate of .100 looks to be about right
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    Given the shape of the Makarov cartridge near the base, it looks like it would probably have to be pulled back out of the chamber by more than that to expect any bulging.

  12. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brasky View Post
    +1. I've dropped two different glocks for a total of three drops. All were in the bathroom when I picked up my holster and it slipped out of my hands. Dropped directly on tile floor and nothing happened all three times. A friend of mine (I wouldn't recommend this) purposely threw his Glock on a concrete floor and nothing happened
    You need a thumb snap badly.


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    Below are some SAAMI specs for the Makarov cartridge. I don't know how officially SAAMI treats Makarov cartridges so below that are the CIP specs which should be the real standard.
    If you look at dimension "E" it is 3.5 mm which is 0.138 inches. That portion of the base of the cartridge is pretty much solid brass and would probably not distort. Even at point "E" the brass is still thicker there and would resist bulging. If the case were another 0.1 inch further out of the chamber though you would probably get bulging and possibly even rupture.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    "The pistol ejected the round, and chambered a new one. No hangups."
    Now I'm really confused, how can this happen with a blow back pistol and nothing is holding the frame so the slide can move backwards eject a spent case then move forward and chamber a new round. blow back pistols are notorious for fouling up when limp wristed.
    Well?????????????????????????
    Appalachain American

  15. #59

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    ^^ Look I don't have all the answers.. This gun obviously isn't suppose to do this. I decided to take your guys advice and have it looked at by a smith. Maybe he can shed some light. I also apologize for the title.. I really should have put "My CZ-82 NOT dropsafe" Your pistols all may be perfectly safe and once again it is up to you to determine. It's just when you almost blow your brains out you tend to want to caution others from doing the same.

  16. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    Below are some SAAMI specs for the Makarov cartridge. I don't know how officially SAAMI treats Makarov cartridges so below that are the CIP specs which should be the real standard.
    If you look at dimension "E" it is 3.5 mm which is 0.138 inches. That portion of the base of the cartridge is pretty much solid brass and would probably not distort. Even at point "E" the brass is still thicker there and would resist bulging. If the case were another 0.1 inch further out of the chamber though you would probably get bulging and possibly even rupture.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Great info! Thanks for sharing. :D

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    If the gun landed on a solid enough surface to fire a round, I am thinking it may have been solid enough to support the frame while cycling another round into the chamber. It happens pretty fast.

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    Stl, I took the liberty of changing the thread title as you suggested. I think it's more accurate.
    I'm always looking for rare varieties of 9x18 ammunition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TENNESSEEAN View Post

    "The pistol ejected the round, and chambered a new one. No hangups."
    Now I'm really confused, how can this happen with a blow back pistol and nothing is holding the frame so the slide can move backwards eject a spent case then move forward and chamber a new round. blow back pistols are notorious for fouling up when limp wristed.
    I don't think CZ 82 pistols are very prone to limp wrist cycling problems. The frame weight is pretty substantial along with the grip, magazine and any ammo added in. I think it would probably cycle fine without anybody holding the pistol at all. Kinda hard to actually test that.
    Plus the ammo was Hornady Critical Defense FTX ammo which is good ammo, not as powerful as some Underwood or Buffalo Bore offerings but very capable of cycling a CZ 82 quite easily.
    The bottom line is it did cycle so that pretty much sums it up.

  20. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    Stl, I took the liberty of changing the thread title as you suggested. I think it's more accurate.
    Thank you.

  21. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by StlMakGuy24 View Post
    ^^ Look I don't have all the answers.. This gun obviously isn't suppose to do this. I decided to take your guys advice and have it looked at by a smith. Maybe he can shed some light. I also apologize for the title.. I really should have put "My CZ-82 NOT dropsafe" Your pistols all may be perfectly safe and once again it is up to you to determine. It's just when you almost blow your brains out you tend to want to caution others from doing the same.
    I agree, and appreciate your sharing your harrowing experience.

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    That's my view, also. But if you insist on testing your luck w/one in the chamber, the only insurance is to ALWAYS have the manual safety engaged when carrying/moving or just examining any semi-auto pistol, especially the cz82, whose manual safety can only be activated with the hammer in the cocked position. I would no more rely on my cz82 w/the manual safety off than I would trust my M1911A1 not to discharge when dropped or jolted hard when it's not in the "cocked & locked" condition. JMHO, of course.
    Donzi
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanhufstutler View Post
    +1 to this.

    Sorry folks but all the technicalities and ifs and buts in the world ain't gonna matter if your weapon discharges and the round makes contact with you or another human.

    The only drop safe gun is one without a round in front of the firing pin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donzi View Post
    That's my view, also. But if you insist on testing your luck w/one in the chamber, the only insurance is to ALWAYS have the manual safety engaged when carrying/moving or just examining any semi-auto pistol, especially the cz82, whose manual safety can only be activated with the hammer in the cocked position. I would no more rely on my cz82 w/the manual safety off than I would trust my M1911A1 not to discharge when dropped or jolted hard when it's not in the "cocked & locked" condition. JMHO, of course.
    Donzi

    So how do you handle a glock or springfield xd just to name two very popular and safe semi-automatic pistols?
    Appalachain American

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    I don't think CZ 82 pistols are very prone to limp wrist cycling problems. The frame weight is pretty substantial along with the grip, magazine and any ammo added in. I think it would probably cycle fine without anybody holding the pistol at all. Kinda hard to actually test that.
    Plus the ammo was Hornady Critical Defense FTX ammo which is good ammo, not as powerful as some Underwood or Buffalo Bore offerings but very capable of cycling a CZ 82 quite easily.
    The bottom line is it did cycle so that pretty much sums it up.
    Do you really believe what you are saying, that a semi-auto pistol will cycle without anyone holding it
    Appalachain American

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    Quote Originally Posted by joel6180 View Post
    If the gun landed on a solid enough surface to fire a round, I am thinking it may have been solid enough to support the frame while cycling another round into the chamber. It happens pretty fast.

    Do you really believe this, if the hammer hit hard enough on a hard surface to fire the gun then the back of the grip has to be on the same hard surface so how does the slide recoil back to eject the spent case?
    Appalachain American

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    I'm thinking maybe the force of the recoil, may allow the slide to push-off the hard surface. Like a pogo stick. Wouldn't that be cool? If everything was perfect, it could have hopped around the carport 10 or 12 times. But, I am not a scientist. And, I carry a revolver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joel6180 View Post
    I'm thinking maybe the force of the recoil, may allow the slide to push-off the hard surface. Like a pogo stick. Wouldn't that be cool? If everything was perfect, it could have hopped around the carport 10 or 12 times. But, I am not a scientist. And, I carry a revolver.

    Ok if the recoil pushes the slide off the hard surface then the frame has to go with it, so how does it eject the spent round.
    Appalachain American

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    It would be just perfect, where the slide pushes up most of the gun, but the heel of the grip (frame) remains in contact with hard surface, successfully ejecting the spent case, and chambering a round. I hope no one tries to duplicate this scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joel6180 View Post
    It would be just perfect, where the slide pushes up most of the gun, but the heel of the grip (frame) remains in contact with hard surface, successfully ejecting the spent case, and chambering a round. I hope no one tries to duplicate this scenario.

    If the slide is going forward then the frame is going with it, the slide has to go backwards to eject the spent case.
    Appalachain American

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    OK, you win. But, when you are daydreaming about how it could have happened, don't forget how much heavier the grip area would be with 11 or 12 rounds of ammo still in place, and imagine the heel as a pivot. Or, just deny it completely, that way no daydreaming required.

  31. #75

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    This thread got me looking at my CZ 82. If I cock the hammer, pull the trigger while holding the hammer, lower the hammer while holding the trigger all the way back, I am indeed able to push the hammer forward to contact the firing pin (auto hammer block safety is not engaged as the trigger is being held all the way back). If I then push the hammer all the way forward and slowly release the trigger, it catches and stops right before the auto hammer block safety engages. A slight touch to the trigger and the it snaps forward to full return. I don't carry the CZ (prefer the MaKarov with the safety engaged) and I always catch the CZ's hammer with the trigger when lowering it so I can control it with the trigger as well as my thumb. Is there a possibility the trigger could have been in this position when the pistol was dropped?

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    Sorry, Tennesseean, they're not popular w/me. I dislike Glocks in general, & the only 1911type pistol I own/use is the original design.
    Donzi

    Quote Originally Posted by TENNESSEEAN View Post
    So how do you handle a glock or springfield xd just to name two very popular and safe semi-automatic pistols?

  33. #77

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    Here's some pics to show how the pistol landed. Notice the loss of finish on the hammer(Particularly, the right tip). There was even pieces of asphalt gravel in some of those grooves. Then notice the loss of finish/paint on the tail/frame and bottom edges of the slide, as well. However inconceivable, this pistol did in fact cycle from the ground.
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    The Polish P-64 isn't drop safe either. You either have to carry it hammer down with the safety still in full de-cock/hammer block position or hammer back and safety in between fire and de-cock which both disconnects the trigger and blocks the hammer enough to prevent a drop fire.

  35. #79

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    I tried the pencil test, hammer banged as stlmakguy24 did, on a carpeted surface. It feels and looks as if the pin is pushing the pencil, but it could just be bounce from the rap on the floor (lite rap, no jump of the pencil, harder rap, pencil jumps, harder rap yet, pencil jumps but no more so than with the medium hard rap. Guess one of us needs to try this test with a primed case (no powder or bullet), to really determine what is happening here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jhmacdonald View Post
    The Polish P-64 isn't drop safe either. You either have to carry it hammer down with the safety still in full de-cock/hammer block position or hammer back and safety in between fire and de-cock which both disconnects the trigger and blocks the hammer enough to prevent a drop fire.
    That is not a valid function of the decocker. If yours is doing that then there is something wrong with your decocker or it has been "worked" on.

    And I would not recommend anyone carrying it in that position.
    Laugh hard and often.

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  37. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by curly1 View Post
    That is not a valid function of the decocker. If yours is doing that then there is something wrong with your decocker or it has been "worked" on.

    And I would not recommend anyone carrying it in that position.
    Post number 79 is pretty much an established fact, and there is tons of coverage on the internet. I verified it too, with my own P64 on the range. However, the earlier version with burred hammer, is much less likely to hit on something, if dropped. The later, spurred hammer is more likely.

    Someone also said his P64 fired when he jammed it into his pocket, due to the hammer snagging on something. That one, I have trouble buying, but his story is also all over the internet. Possibly with the later hammer...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bvd1 View Post
    Does anyone know where to find a slide stop spring as shown it the picture? Numrich is sold out. There was a member on a forum that sold these years ago but not sure which forum.
    I mangled a couple of those springs before a made one out of a safety pin,I works great
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    Quote Originally Posted by TENNESSEEAN View Post
    Do you really believe what you are saying, that a semi-auto pistol will cycle without anyone holding it
    Yes, I do believe some pistols will cycle properly while unsupported. I think there is enough inertia in the frame, grip and magazine of some guns to provide all the resistance to movement that is required for cycling. Some guns are more prone to cycling failures due to limp wristing and some other guns are not prone to it at all. In general Glocks tend to be prone to it probably because of the light weght of the frame and grip, etc. Some pistols that are designed so they have a high percentage of their weight in the frame and grips etc and a low percentage of their weight in the slide do not tend to suffer from limp wrist failures.


    Here is a video that is less than 2 minutes long. The Glock shows a tendency for limp wrist failures. The last two guns do not. No, this is not a perfect test because he is touching the gun, and it certainly does not prove anything. It is just a demonstration of the tendencies of some guns.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9JhCyFFxA



    I looked but I could not find a video of a pistol fired hanging from strings without anybody touching it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    Yes, I do believe some pistols will cycle properly while unsupported.
    I would think that would defy the laws of physics.

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    I want to know what the neighbors did/thought???
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    Quote Originally Posted by alterego View Post
    I want to know what the neighbors did/thought???
    Surprisingly, noone came outside. Which looking back is a bit disconcerting.

    Update: While picking up a Beretta I won at auction, I recently had my gunsmith/ffl dealer inspect the CZ-82. He came to the conclusion that although everything mechanically works and lines up as it should(correct tolerances, functions, etc.) the pistol does indeed appear to have a design flaw that in VERY rare cases could result in an accidental dropfire. He was able to replicate the problem using the pencil test(As I did in the video). He also happened to have a 2nd CZ-82 on hand which also failed the test. He said the chances of it happening are VERY slim as it had to drop just right on the tip of the hammer spur(In order to push the hammer just a smidge forward(Yes, even with the "auto safety") as the slide/pin came backward). He also mentioned stiffer/newer springs could conceivably help, but he personally still wouldn't trust his life to it. So, take it for what it is. I was hoping it was just mine, but it appears this could potentially happen with any CZ-82/83 pistol. That said, I will continue to carry my CZ-82. Just not with one in the chamber.

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    "Seeing that there were a few neighbors outside, I rolled the CZ in a towel to carry it in(Yes, I now realize this was a mistake)."..."Surprisingly, noone came outside. Which looking back is a bit disconcerting."

    Which is it? Hmmm...

  44. #88
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    CZ82s are great guns. I carry mine with one in the chamber hammer down everyday. If it drop fires it needs repaired. My safety only works with the hammer back. With this gun why would you carry it with the hammer cocked. Bought a CZ America 83. It was a piece of junk. Trigger was hard, long and gritty. Quickly sold it and started carrying the 82 again.

  45. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by martinbanner View Post
    "Seeing that there were a few neighbors outside, I rolled the CZ in a towel to carry it in(Yes, I now realize this was a mistake)."..."Surprisingly, noone came outside. Which looking back is a bit disconcerting."

    Which is it? Hmmm...
    Well I saw a few people up the street when I went outside, but l didnt see anyone after it happened and noone came out or said anything then or the days after. As you can imagine, I was a bit flustered. I don't see where any of that really matters though... You ask the question as if I'm on trial. Obviously, some of you think I'm a liar no matter what. It is what it is. As suggested, I took the gun to a qualified gunsmith. I really don't know what else to tell you. I had a very rare and dangerous experience. Do what you please.

  46. #90

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    First I want to say I don't believe you are a troll or a liar. It is my understanding (and I may be wrong) that drop tests are generally muzzle down (I have searched for California specs for the test and failed to find the actual rules, just second hand statements as to the content, something like 20 feet muzzle down). If a hard rap on the hammer could fire the gun this test would not detect it. I also have to assume that if this was a common problem there would be more instances in the record than there are. I question the pencil test as evidence, I observed your video and replicated it with my CZ and was not convinced (i will try the with the Mac with the safety on next to see if I see a like result). If one wanted to really know if a rap to the hammer would set off a round they would put an empty primed case in the chamber and repeat the test, rather than a bouncing pencil that leaves no evidence of a visible strike. That would convince that your pistol, and possibly mine, has a problem. I have little faith in a smith that would make a determination based on the pencil test.

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