MY CZ-82 is NOT drop safe - Page 3
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Thread: MY CZ-82 is NOT drop safe

  1. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hayman View Post
    First I want to say I don't believe you are a troll or a liar. It is my understanding (and I may be wrong) that drop tests are generally muzzle down (I have searched for California specs for the test and failed to find the actual rules, just second hand statements as to the content, something like 20 feet muzzle down). If a hard rap on the hammer could fire the gun this test would not detect it. I also have to assume that if this was a common problem there would be more instances in the record than there are. I question the pencil test as evidence, I observed your video and replicated it with my CZ and was not convinced (i will try the with the Mac with the safety on next to see if I see a like result). If one wanted to really know if a rap to the hammer would set off a round they would put an empty primed case in the chamber and repeat the test, rather than a bouncing pencil that leaves no evidence of a visible strike. That would convince that your pistol, and possibly mine, has a problem. I have little faith in a smith that would make a determination based on the pencil test.
    You will not be able to replicate this with a Makarov. As there is absolutely no way of the hammer making contact wih the firing pin. Pertaining to the pencil test.. Besides observing movement, IF the firing pin does strike the pencil hard enough it will leave a small visible hole in the eraser. Although not super technical, this does prove contact.

  2. #92

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    If you drop a pencil on the floor eraser first it will bounce. If you drop it held in a gun barrel, when the gun hits the floor and stops, the pencil bounces. It works the same in the Mak with the safety on as the CZ, I tried both. Use a primed case for your test, and if it were me, I'd start looking for a better gunsmith.

  3. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Hayman View Post
    If you drop a pencil on the floor eraser first it will bounce. If you drop it held in a gun barrel, when the gun hits the floor and stops, the pencil bounces. It works the same in the Mak with the safety on as the CZ, I tried both. Use a primed case for your test, and if it were me, I'd start looking for a better gunsmith.
    I guess you missed the part about the hole in the eraser. I'm honestly done with this. I'm done doing tests or having people look at it. I now know what happened. If you don't believe me then that's fine. Or if you want to do further testing then be my guest, but I'm done.

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  5. #94

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    I know I said I was done commenting on this matter but well guys thanks to members Slimjim and Akmore some new important details have now emerged. Slimjim posted this thread in the Original CZ Forum and a member there(Igrlik)posted the following information..
    The CZ82 IS NOT 'Drop Safe' ! (and CZ83 too)
    Was proven after some incidents by czechoslovak weapon testing authority.
    It is a design flaw. After that, there was oredered police must not carry round loaded in chamber.
    Falling perpendiculary on the hammer, although the "auto safety" does block the hammer from full falling, it does still come forward just a smidget. After that, inertia of the slide moves round from chamber using extractor just enough to cause ignition.
    He then provided a link per request:
    Czech journal Střelecká revue (Shooting revue) 6/2012 - Monograph on CZ vz. 82 under title "Sad saga of cs. pistol vz. 82" pages 52-53:

    http://img10.rajce.idnes.cz/d1002/6/...2s52.jpg?ver=0
    http://img10.rajce.idnes.cz/d1002/6/...2s53.jpg?ver=0
    The above Czech article translated:
    All thanks to friend from another czech forum:
    Rana z milosti - "Coup de Grace"

    During the 90’s, when police officers started carrying a round in the chamber after the level of security has taken a turn for the worse, doubts about the vz. 82’s drop safety started to surface in light of multiple accounts of drop-induced accidental discharge with severe consequences. Any deficiency in the design’s safety was initially dismissed by the Czech police management, until in 1998 in an accidental discharge following a drop, a bystander was hit in the head and gravely injured.

    During the following examination of the handgun by Prague’s Institute of criminal investigation, it was experimentally proved beyond a shadow of doubt that it was entirely possible for an accidental discharge to occur after said model of firearm was dropped. (Until then, a drop safety test used to be performed in adherence to the TP-VD-637-81, which was the methodology required by the handgun’s technical documentation. The methodology, which specified a number of ways for the handgun to be dropped – all from the height of just one meter – did not cover the worst case scenario: a drop straight on the hammer.) A follow-up investigation revealed that all revisions of the handgun since the start of production were affected by the issue. Every single vz. 82, regardless of whether the hammer mechanism was pre- or post-update, in otherwise acceptable technical condition and carried in accordance with the instructions for use, for example according to the DoD regulation Děl-21-28 „9mm pistole vz. 82,“ can suffer from an accidental discharge after being dropped from a reasonable carry/use height (even less than 1m), if a round is chambered at the time.

    This revelation, in light of the past accidents and other challenges faced during the service of the vz. 82 pistol, effectively sealed its service with the Czech law enforcement. Solving the issue would be complicated, among other things due to the fact many of the parts were being manufactured in a number of size categories (disconnector 1-5, sear 1-3, safety 1-4, trigger bar disconnector 1-5, rear sight 1-6) and some of the other parts weren’t interchangeable between all of the revisions of the handgun. That would necessitate the acquisition and use of a wide range of specialized tools, keeping a surplus of different spare parts in stock and employing highly qualified specialized personnel (armorers).

    The decision to phase out the vz. 82 pistol from service in the Czech law enforcement (the military and the prison guard were perfectly happy to retain them in active service, and in Slovakia they’re being issued even to this day) was also influenced by the limitations of the 9mm Makarov / 9mm vz. 82 round, particularly its lower penetration and worse immediate incapacitation rate, its unimpressive accuracy and a narrow selection of bullet designs available on the market compared to the standard 9x19 round (9mm Luger). The price of the round compared to the already mass-produced 9mm Luger round was also higher. However, the outdated and obsolete vz. 82 pistols were still in the proces of being phased out by 2002, tied to the distribution of CZ 75 D Compact pistols chambered in 9mm Luger. (The adoption of which by the Czech LE was anything but smooth, but that’s a different story entirely.) A limited number of vz. 82 pistols was still in service by as late as 2008. „Between the years 2002-2008 the rearmament of the entire force was completed,“ confirmed the public relations officer of the Police presidium, Zuzana Součková. Yet according to sources close to Shooter Revue, a certain number of these handguns remains in service with the Ministry of Interior to this day.

  6. #95

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    So there it is. Now those of you who doubted me can see I was telling the truth. My gunsmith confirmed this, as well. As I mentioned before, being a HUGE fan and collector of Makarov and Makarov variant pistols, I was very relluctant to post this. However, safety is always #1 when it comes to firearms. I also feel VERY lucky to have learned a cheap lesson that just could easily have been taught with my life. I urge you all to take heed and spread the word that the CZ-83 & CZ-83 pistols are in fact not safe to carry with a round in the chamber. It frightens me to think that the next guy may not be so lucky.

  7. #96
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    663

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    It may actually be safer to carry the gun cocked and locked like a 1911.

  8. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by StlMakGuy24 View Post
    So there it is. Now those of you who doubted me can see I was telling the truth. My gunsmith confirmed this, as well. As I mentioned before, being a HUGE fan and collector of Makarov and Makarov variant pistols, I was very relluctant to post this. However, safety is always #1 when it comes to firearms. I also feel VERY lucky to have learned a cheap lesson that just could easily have been taught with my life. I urge you all to take heed and spread the word that the CZ-83 & CZ-83 pistols are in fact not safe to carry with a round in the chamber. It frightens me to think that the next guy may not be so lucky.
    I am not, "frightened". Just need to remember that firearms are dangerous, and handle them accordingly.

  9. #98
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    153

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    I am not "frightened" either. I've never 'dropped' a gun in my life - and I'm old.

  10. #99

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    "cocked and locked" just stresses me out... Eeek.. Unless I'm a cop with a holster on my hip, that just seems way too scary/risky. Even with a round in the chamber and the hammer down.. It just seems waaaay too risky, in any gun. Yes guns are tested a lot, but malfunctions can and do happen. I understand that in some situations you won't even have the split second it takes for you to rack a slide.. But hell, if those kind of situations are common in an area, I'd probably avoid it.. And yes I know that's easier said than done, but damn, I guess I'm just glad I don't live in a dangerous area.. I don't even have my CCW. I plan to get it, but damn I'll probably carry without a round in the chamber and the hammer down LOL.

  11. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    I am not "frightened" either. I've never 'dropped' a gun in my life - and I'm old.
    Good for you. I didn't say you should be frightened. I said it frightens me to think the next guy this happens to may not be so lucky. I'll be the first to admit I made a mistake in dropping the pistol, but fact is there are many people out there carrying this same pistol who think it's safe to carry with a round chambered/safety off. Well now we know that's not the case.

  12. #101
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Guro-gu, Seoul
    Posts
    482

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    I'm glad you're ok, OP.

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