Gunshow talk,mosin nagants will be cheap again.
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Thread: Gunshow talk,mosin nagants will be cheap again.

  1. #1
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    Default Gunshow talk,mosin nagants will be cheap again.

    Some of these dealers arent buying at todays prices as they are worried that these russian imports will flood the market and become cheap again,will see 89.00 mosin nagants and much cheaper sks rifles.They think Trumps friendship with Putin will allow more of these guns to be imported at more relaxed regulations.What do you guys think?

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    The truth is somewhere in the middle (between theories like that and the current overpriced market). On one hand, $300 ex-Dragoons are very overpriced, and for the most part are going to sit. On the other hand, $89 or even $150 refurb 91/30s are a thing of the past.







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    We have no restriction on the import of Russian rifles in Canada, but prices are not going down. On the contrary they have been climbing in the last few years.

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    Thanks for the info/ opinions!Yeah I think its just talk but I remember 2 years ago a dealer seller had stacks of mosin nagant rifles for 99.00 in box with excessories for sale.The price has doubled in that short time.Seems to me they are over inflated or were they just sleepers waiting to break out?Jean,you can still get Norincos up there, a lot of import guns are much cheaper in Canada I know.The US is a lot bigger market. There are more restrictions on guns here,Trump may change that.
    Last edited by junker; 02-11-2017 at 08:32 PM.

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    The vast majority of Mosins back in the cheap days came from Ukraine, not Russia. Many were refurbed there and stayed during the USSR's final days, being handed over to the newly independent Ukraine.

    Ukraine had all the un-needed Soviet milsurp left behind in the vast former Soviet Kiev, Crimean and border area warehouses and other refurb storage locations when the Orange Revolution brought Ukrainian independence and chaos. They needed money fast.

    A whole lot of sometimes crooked arms merchants, military and Ukrainian government officials cashed in on selling off the huge supply of left-behind arms, new and old. They sold pretty much anything you can imagine on world markets to first-tier "death merchants" for quick cash -helicopters, trucks, RPGs, Kalashnikovs and more old stuff like Mosins and ammo from way back, all super cheap. US importers bought in bulk from the huge international buyers and did the US import paperwork, putting on the required import and origin stamps and US serial numbers we all hate to see.

    Large stores like Big Five, the third bulk buyer down the chain after the US importers like CAI brought them in, ended up with hundreds of crates of Mosins and sold 'em cheap to us. Ukraine also added scopes to make good replica snipers from lots of refurb Mosins, using replicas scopes made in Kiev when the refurb ones ran out and these went to large US wholesalers as well.

    Those stocks of cheap refurb Mosins are long gone. I don't think Russia has a lot more to sell, but certainly some extra milsurp SVDS, SKSs and Kalashnikovs, which we will probably never see.

    Also, I would love to see brand-new Saigas and VEPRs and Izhevsk Dragunovs allowed again. Does Congress care? Probably not, as blaming Russia for all problems is still the going thing in Congress.

    Imagine how cheaply the Mosins were first sold out of Ukrainian bunkers to end up here for $69-$99 retail at Big Five after going through multiple wholesalers' markups, importing, resale, distribution and lots of storage and travel! Maybe $5 apiece or less?

    A better hope is all the left over M-1 carbines, 1911 Colts, Garands and such we shipped out to places like the Philippines and Korea and now might finally get back.
    Return of all this fine US milsurp stuff has been blocked by Obama for years.
    Last edited by Stalin's Ghost; 02-11-2017 at 09:32 PM.

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    Thanks for your post.The last bigger gunshow I went to 3 weeks ago a dealer had at least 30 mosin nagant rifles,some cleaned of cosmoline some not,199.00 for uncleaned and 225,00 for cleaned of cosmoline.That seems to be the going price here in the midwest.He was selling a few here and there he said.I wish now I had bought 10 at 99.00 2 years ago.Like you say how many does Russia have left?On SKS and other rifles they probably still have many refurbs sitting in warehouses from the cold war period, they were the best at refurb and storage.Look at the ww2 german weapons that came from them,bet they still have some of those.

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    Hello. Military warehouses of Russia, a lot of weapons during WW2. Low prices will be no more,will only go up.Business Russia spoil Ukraine,selling at a low price their goods,but now the warehouses of Ukraine is empty. Russia is a monopolist in the U.S. market,the prices of historical weapons will grow.
    This is true in relation to the goods in perfect condition,if there is free money - now is the time to buy.Rifles after the fixation of the price not much comes up, all the same, this product is not new.
    Last edited by assistant802; 02-12-2017 at 01:04 AM.

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    Even if there is a large supply left, and the Russians are let off the hook for their grand theft, the Russians know how much we are willing to pay for the rifles, they are not going to sell them to the importers for chump change. They would get the most money by dribbling the supply of remaining rifles slowly onto the market.
    Aut Pax Aut Bellum

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    Stalin's Ghost nailed it. I swear if I hear one more person tell me at a show that 54R and mosins dried up because of Obama I'm gonna crack! Obama had nothing to do with any of it, as all our cheap ammo and mosins all came from Ukraine and Bulgaria years ago. We haven't been able to import arms from russia in years!! ANy hope of getting anything from Ukraine again is hopeless as they are stuck in this civil war, and what they did have left has probably be used, or destroyed. Only thing we got recently from Russia was the short lived and over priced Molot rifles, and they were marked all up and called sporting guns.

    The Russians are not dumb, if the US and Russia ever can agree to open up trade on arms (which I doubt) you will not be buying them cheap!!
    RIP Kevin Carney 10/3/14

    They'll always be a empty chair at the gunshows for you buddy.

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    While trade routes are not paved,the Ministry of defense of Russia - frees your warehouse this way
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    Last edited by assistant802; 02-12-2017 at 07:41 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Relic View Post
    The truth is somewhere in the middle (between theories like that and the current overpriced market). On one hand, $300 ex-Dragoons are very overpriced, and for the most part are going to sit. On the other hand, $89 or even $150 refurb 91/30s are a thing of the past.
    I'm with you on that, Relic. If things keep going as they are, yes, I do think we will start to see more guns from Russia. But the days when I got my two 1948 M44s for $80 apiece are gone forever.

    Now if only those damned billboards would go away...

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    Observable, empirical fact. Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by assistant802 View Post
    While trade routes are not paved,the Ministry of defense of Russia - frees your warehouse this way
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    Small arms and ammunition on the cheap from the Ukraine is one thing, but what about the MIG-21's and other airpower that were bought by the guys with some extra spare change (for them), refurbished in the US northwest by USSR trained expat's from, you guessed it, Ukraine, given N numbers by the FAA, and resold to American "collectors". Many came with all ordinance racks intact and some with cannon ammo onboard. Deactivated missiles? No problem. Spare engines? No problem. You want to buy more now? Maybe some little problems now, no? So the price goes up and rare numbers accessories with it. So one could have a operational MIG-21 for let's say, for the price of a nice three car garage in LA. One could also get a really nice Moisin for the price of a couple of boxes of .300 Weatherby Mag ammo. But I digress. How does the song go? The times they are a changing.

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    MN cheap? If you believe that you might as well wait for 22 ammo to return to a penny a round!
    Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by italiansport View Post
    MN cheap? If you believe that you might as well wait for 22 ammo to return to a penny a round!
    Jim
    Not until folks pick up pennies on the ground.

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    Cool

    Get rid of the paper work stoppages 1990's up ..
    ..then supply and demand will rebalance in many different areas....
    If there is Easing of political posturing moving to improved economic relationships....
    we can not "predict"...were the price line may move too?

    the $$$ and cents savings the "opportunity to see our collections loose value" VS the benifit of acquiring more items for your collection cheeper then current prices.
    Now $400 rifle for $200? Maybe. ....
    to buying $400 rifle old prices now for $200...
    Yes you'll have to "forget saleing " and getting your money back!
    to going out "buying same guns cheeper" and working that angle.
    Till a balance occurs making old and new prices become stabilized !
    Economists will work this angle out....in class rooms.
    Just like all those AR's, and uppers setting in ware houses bought at too high prices....
    .not moving fast enough to save these investments, investors....losses building each drop in over all market price So ...... My advice wait and see, have money on hand ....just don't jump in to early or too late. ><> Daniel

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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    Get rid of the paper work stoppages 1990's up ..
    ..then supply and demand will rebalance in many different areas....
    If there is Easing of political posturing moving to improved economic relationships....
    we can not "predict"...were the price line may move too?

    the $$$ and cents savings the "opportunity to see our collections loose value" VS the benifit of acquiring more items for your collection cheeper then current prices.
    Now $400 rifle for $200? Maybe. ....
    to buying $400 rifle old prices now for $200...
    Yes you'll have to "forget saleing " and getting your money back!
    to going out "buying same guns cheeper" and working that angle.
    Till a balance occurs making old and new prices become stabilized !
    Economists will work this angle out....in class rooms.
    Just like all those AR's, and uppers setting in ware houses bought at too high prices....
    .not moving fast enough to save these investments, investors....losses building each drop in over all market price So ...... My advice wait and see, have money on hand ....just don't jump in to early or too late. ><> Daniel
    I'm not even going to pretend to understand this.

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    I remember that after the fall of the Soviet Union you could buy Mig-15s and Mig-17s for $10k-$15k complete in crates. I wish I had the money for that back then. I'd be flying one! But those days are over. If the surplus begins flowing again, it will be comparable to prices a couple of years back I think. I'm waiting to see the Garands from Korea coming home. I hope that they will be "cheap", but won't hold my breath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by italiansport View Post
    MN cheap? If you believe that you might as well wait for 22 ammo to return to a penny a round!

    Jim
    And that is because we told the ammo makers that we were perfectly willing to fight over it for five times the price. They would have been fools not to raise the price of poker.
    Aut Pax Aut Bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe7170 View Post
    Stalin's Ghost nailed it. I swear if I hear one more person tell me at a show that 54R and mosins dried up because of Obama I'm gonna crack! Obama had nothing to do with any of it, as all our cheap ammo and mosins all came from Ukraine and Bulgaria years ago. We haven't been able to import arms from russia in years!! ANy hope of getting anything from Ukraine again is hopeless as they are stuck in this civil war, and what they did have left has probably be used, or destroyed. Only thing we got recently from Russia was the short lived and over priced Molot rifles, and they were marked all up and called sporting guns.

    The Russians are not dumb, if the US and Russia ever can agree to open up trade on arms (which I doubt) you will not be buying them cheap!!
    The attitude that the prices are going to bottom out should be a good negotiating tool with the seller to dump the item while it is still valuable. I support that!
    Aut Pax Aut Bellum

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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    Get rid of the paper work stoppages 1990's up ..
    ..then supply and demand will rebalance in many different areas....
    If there is Easing of political posturing moving to improved economic relationships....
    we can not "predict"...were the price line may move too?

    the $$$ and cents savings the "opportunity to see our collections loose value" VS the benifit of acquiring more items for your collection cheeper then current prices.
    Now $400 rifle for $200? Maybe. ....
    to buying $400 rifle old prices now for $200...
    Yes you'll have to "forget saleing " and getting your money back!
    to going out "buying same guns cheeper" and working that angle.
    Till a balance occurs making old and new prices become stabilized !
    Economists will work this angle out....in class rooms.
    Just like all those AR's, and uppers setting in ware houses bought at too high prices....
    .not moving fast enough to save these investments, investors....losses building each drop in over all market price So ...... My advice wait and see, have money on hand ....just don't jump in to early or too late. ><> Daniel
    Why would you think that the prices have not stabilized at the current values? Historical trends show that prices, though they may fluctuate in the short term, trend up, not down. Historic rifles that civilians can own are like land....they ain't making any more of them. The only thing that could drop the long-term value would be political moves of our government to eliminate firearms from civilian hands, something that is not on the horizon.
    Aut Pax Aut Bellum

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    Friend of mine in Serbia told me that century arms was buying Yugo SKS's unissued for $5 a piece, and m48's even cheaper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rajko84 View Post
    Friend of mine in Serbia told me that century arms was buying Yugo SKS's unissued for $5 a piece, and m48's even cheaper.
    After they pay to import, and ship them here, it makes sense, as they used to sell for a couple hundred bucks back in the day.
    RIP Kevin Carney 10/3/14

    They'll always be a empty chair at the gunshows for you buddy.

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    Default Big 5 Sporting Goods..

    Well, if we again receive cheap Mosins, Big 5 Sporting Goods will have them..and no FFL hassle..they do all the California paper work so you then go back when it clears..simple.Pete

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    They are not buying at todays prices. But are sure are selling at todays prices just another excuse to lowball price. All the cheap mosins and Russian sks and ammo came out of ukraine anyway.

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    Default Yes, indeed...

    I receive Big 5 emails weekly..I'll stay tuned....used to have my FFL for 20 years, then California screwed everything up.....Gov.Brown and those of his gang of thugs has bankrupted this once great state. I was born in LA in 1929 so I know what has transpired. West LA with empty lots for houses, grass fields all around our little house.10 cent trolley line to downtown Los Angeles.....Pete

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    I bought a Mosin for 119.00 total. When my grandson turned 18 I gave it to him thinking I could get another one. I went looking like before and they were all near or over 200.00. That would put me onto a used .308 with a scope. I wanted one just for plinking with cheap ammo but I am not stupid. I will wait until they come back to near 100.00 and if they don't I won't own another one. It is the next generation coming thinking these prices compare with new American .30 cals that keep the prices up. Stop buying them and watch the prices go back to the 39.95 they should be.

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    Sa1911a1....seasoned collector almost 40 years....I've seen this happen many times with many different rifles not just these....
    First economics needs more fickle than our logical thinking....
    political moves on both ends of gun importing exporting second reason as per your own words.!
    I'm no expert just a collector that's accumulated close to 5 safes full or guns way above $100,000 in value...
    Not collecting military surplus unless it's the real deal in my grasp!
    No offense intended by my poorly typed words my friend><> Daniel

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    They will never be cheap like they were again.
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    "Terror is not a new weapon. Throughout history it has been used by those who could not prevail, either by persuasion or example. But inevitably they fail, either because men are not afraid to die for a life worth living, or because the terrorists themselves came to realize that free men cannot be frightened by threats, and that aggression would meet its own response. And it is in the light of that history that every nation today should know, be he friend or foe, that the United States has both the will and the weapons to join free men in standing up to their responsibilities."
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    Geez, I love that John. F. Kennedy wisdom!

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    Im with you ,this cat should start a youtube channel on economics ,, lol

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    We shall see...below $200 I think, by April or May?
    Or not!

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    Agreed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vic View Post
    They will never be cheap like they were again.

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    [QUOTE=marineimaging;6276065]I bought a Mosin for 119.00 total. When my grandson turned 18 I gave it to him thinking I could get another one. I went looking like before and they were all near or over 200.00. That would put me onto a used .308 with a scope. I wanted one just for plinking with cheap ammo but I am not stupid. I will wait until they come back to near 100.00 and if they don't I won't own another one. It is the next generation coming thinking these prices compare with new American .30 cals that keep the prices up. Stop buying them and watch the prices go back to the 39.95 they should be.[/QUOTE Some folks missed my point entirely. I doubt the prices will go back to what they were even though in my opinion they are not worth that much considering you can find a used .308 if you look hard enough for as much as a WWI era gun that is dependant on the Russian market for bullets, or reloading your own if you want to shoot it. Also..., "I won't own another one." is the key point. Not them going back to $39.95. I guess I feel that way because I am taking the position of a non-collector.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vic View Post
    They will never be cheap like they were again.
    As Vic says basically nothing ever goes back to the cheap prices it once was, period! Bill
    zeebill live from the hills of West Virginia!

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    Importers and the original owners overseas can see that these are not moving for $200-250. That gives me hope that we will see them around $150 again.

    Don't listen to people that say they'll be $69 again. And don't listen to the people saying "The Russians don't have anything and what they do have will be top dollar". Because nobody knows. Time will tell.

    As a dealer, I'll personally wait rather than risk spending $180 for a large number of 91/30 that could plummet in value at any time.

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    What happened the last time we had an Obama followed by a Trump, peace and downsizing the military followed by promises of being great again? WWII wasn't it. Maybe we will see AR-15's at 39.00 in a few years with the newest generation laser ray guns costing 750.00 - 1200.00. Who knows. We haven't been at this point in history before. Ever. One other thing. We know that in 1859 we had a solar flare that fried our existing electronics. What do you think is going to happen with this next one? A 2000.00 mosin might look like a bargain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marineimaging View Post
    One other thing. We know that in 1859 we had a solar flare that fried our existing electronics. What do you think is going to happen with this next one? A 2000.00 mosin might look like a bargain.
    I don't think there were too many electronics in 1859. We were barely into the machine age....

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    wink2 Going down for the "best time" to buy later.

    Points in progress.....
    1)ammo today lower than last November. Wva
    2)AR's and uppers, mag's." "Wva
    3) sks dropped a average $75 ". " Wva.
    4) bricks of 22's gone from $50 for 500 to 20 or less". "
    5) Kimbers gone down $75 for no reason I can find?
    6) gasoline .....well you know. County wide.
    7) survival foods....down sense Nov. in Wva.
    8) cabbalas prices falling,in ads on almost all guns!
    9) reloading stuff....slowly coming down and increase amounts available in Wva.
    10) mag's prices came down sense November in Wva.
    11) pork way down.00) democratic polished attitudes still going down.
    12) Model 12's been going down last two years.
    13) black cheep looking hunting guns rifles shot guns down almost two years.
    14) anti rules, attitudes, actions towards right to bare arms...way down sense election.

    in conclusion:
    nothing is fixed "with shape shifting markets and demands always determining all market changes ..."...as per JPS THOUGHTS FROM EXPERIENCES....AND OUR Russian comrade.
    from county of origin changes to recieving country of origin.

    so i respectively disagree....$150 prices will be seen again!

    BMRTO Yo!...ONLY WEB SITE I GO TO IS HERE....

    willing to teach you economics. WILLING TO LEARN TOO.,
    Your first lesson watch prices fall....TAKE NOTES!
    Last edited by DK PHILLIPS; 02-14-2017 at 05:34 PM.

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    The rule is you buy when you see milsurp weapons , they will dry up and they will go up. You don't assume they'll always be there when you get around to buy them and you don't take for granted the supply is infinite.

    "Later" is not a good answer or strategy unless you want to pay big bucks.

    By the way , while we are cruising the neighborhood, where are all those who said 762x54R spam can ammo would never dry up ? Step up...where are you genius's ???? You great soothsayers of what is and what will be ???

    Buy now if you want it or regret later. Everyone comes into this at a point of time and regrets being slow to buy. You guys got it lucky right now, you don't have to say I could have bought a Mosin for $12 or a M1 for $89 or a 98K for $19.95. And you don't have to say you did not and have a case of the *** for not doing so.

  42. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pointyears View Post
    I don't think there were too many electronics in 1859. We were barely into the machine age....
    Thank you .... I was referring to 'Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed, in some cases giving telegraph operators electric shocks.[13] Telegraph pylons threw sparks.[14] Some telegraph operators could continue to send and receive messages despite having disconnected their power supplies.

    Telegraphs were not all we had but that was close enough to show what will happen - but not to Mosin Nagants by gollies.


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    As with any item for which there is a finite supply and great demand, buy now or pay later. It's a very basic concept and doesn't require a PHD to figure out.

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

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    nagant revolver are pushing 300$.. now mosin nagants.. days of $100 are over (even if they get re-imported). Especially now that they know folks will spend the money on em.

  45. #44

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    To that I agree but then you also need to know what drove the demand. I know that in my case my grandson was part and parcel to a new generation of curious and history minded teens. With a little bit of savings they were able to buy a .30 caliber rifle and the biggest draw, "But, Paw Paw, all of my friends have one." So, how much of the demand we saw and tried to satisfy was but only an inquisitive fancy? Once sated I saw them quickly lose interest and into the closet they went. We saw them by dozens at the firing range during Obama's and Pelosi's marketing ploy to drive the stock prices up before they were found to own ATI stock. I haven't seen but one or two since last November. How long before they need 50 bucks and remember it in the closet? Maybe the retail market won't go back but there is a generation sitting on them who THOUGHT they were interested. Just my humble opinion for what it's worth.

  46. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    958

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    Some goods thoughts here guys thanks for the opinions!.Price always boils down to availability,the more out there the cheaper the price.Seen this on SOG time and again on pistols and rifles,"we just received a shipment of these pistols found in a warehouse, we can offer these for 219.00 while supplies last!"when you paid 289.00 6 months ago for the same pistol.No one knows where the price will go on mosin nagants but there are so many out there I dont think they will ever be considered rare at least not in the near future.That said 89.00 mosin nagants will probably never be seen again but as was said 150.00 is certainly possible.
    Last edited by junker; 02-14-2017 at 07:54 AM.

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