Ammo recommendation
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Thread: Ammo recommendation

  1. #1
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    Default Ammo recommendation

    I have finished my Mk-12 clone. 18 inch stainless barrel, wyde chamber, free float hand guard, Gilselle (sp) trigger. After a couple of range trips to sort out some functioning bugs and break in the barrel, it now runs fine with any ammo I put through it. The ammo I have used has ranged from Wolf to Privi, to bulk reloads. With these I am getting 1.25 inch groups at 50 yards. I now want to move out to 100 yards with some quality ammo to start working on its accuracy potential. I have not reloaded in a while (years) but am going to get back into it. I don't yet have components for .223. What factory ammo would you recommend that has better accuracy potential, while I wait for my reloading supplies and start working on hand loads. (if anyone wanted to suggest bullet /powder combinations for this rifles ultimate use, the 300 yard range, that too would be helpful)

    I appreciate any advice you can provide. I am an experienced shooter, but getting back into it after retirement, and just recently getting into black rifles.

  2. #2
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    I use Winchester white box 55gr 5.56 marked ammo. It gives me 1 3/4 in. groups at 100 yards in my M4 clone.
    My idea of border control is m-60 machineguns every 100yds with interlocking fields of fire.

  3. #3
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    Sir,

    My 18 " Wylde chamber SPR yields 2 inches at 300 meters with 80 Sierra Match Kings, and Varget powder. If you will email me I will gladly share that load pending your understanding to work up to it per usual hand loading procedures.

    Your 1.25" grouping at 50 yds is a product of less wonderful ammunition and I suspect with better ammunition, you will see under an inch at 100 yds .

    I shall be happy to report 600 yd accuracy if all goes well 18 Feb at the range.

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  5. #4
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    as far as recommendations, Mil will be one to chat with,

    I've had good luck using Sierra, (69's, 77's, )

    as far as powder,
    748, 4895, and 4064 have worked well for me
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  6. #5
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    A number of the people I shoot with swear by Black Hills, but I DO outshoot them (no brag, just fact).

    Personally, the only stuff I have ever used (apart from a couple hundred rounds of Wolf I once tried out of curiosity) have been my reloads.

    My current favorite load is 26 grains of BLC(2) behind whoever's 55 grain FMJBT I can get for cheapest.

    In the past, I have also had some success using 3031.

    My AR's (and a 180 series Mini 14) all have pretty slow twist rifling. The fastest twist I have is one turn in 9", and it also does quite well with the 55's.

  7. #6
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    I am moving off 80 grain as soon as longer range tests are done and begin 77 gr which may not degrade longer range accuracy but can be fed via magazine. Single feeding of 80 gr loads no longer pegs my fun meter.

  8. #7
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    W748 and 4895 have been my go to powders. Surprisingly 52 grain smk's and 52 grain Hornady Match HPBT have been my most accurate loads out to 300 yards past that 69 grain smk's are my most accurate loads in both 1:7, 1:8 and 1:9 twist AE's.

  9. #8
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    Thanks very much to all that have responded to my question. I do appreciate it. Milprileb, I will be sending you an email.

    regards, runner

  10. #9
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    I'm surprised to see guys using 4895, in my reading I had been told that wasn't recommended for gas guns. Too slow, or too hot. I've used blc2, and 748. Currently using cfe223. I figure why not? It's certainly the intended use. Full disclosure though, I just load for cheap blasting. I've never fully worked up a load for accuracy

  11. #10
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    4895 is my go-to powder and it gives me consistent results although I haven't chronographed the velocity .
    My idea of border control is m-60 machineguns every 100yds with interlocking fields of fire.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by izzytok46 View Post
    I'm surprised to see guys using 4895, in my reading I had been told that wasn't recommended for gas guns. Too slow, or too hot. I've used blc2, and 748. Currently using cfe223. I figure why not? It's certainly the intended use. Full disclosure though, I just load for cheap blasting. I've never fully worked up a load for accuracy
    I use 748 but it can be temp sensitive

    never used BLC2,

    4895 is a go to, for both 223/5.56 and 30.06,

    in fact, 4895 will give you a duplicate load in 30.06 and 7.62 for the NM loads used,
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by izzytok46 View Post
    I'm surprised to see guys using 4895, in my reading I had been told that wasn't recommended for gas guns. Too slow, or too hot. I've used blc2, and 748. Currently using cfe223. I figure why not? It's certainly the intended use. Full disclosure though, I just load for cheap blasting. I've never fully worked up a load for accuracy
    H4895 especially, has a faster pressure curve by a good bit from WW748, BL-C(2) or CFE 223. I love IMR 4895 for about every full size military caliber I load (a bunch), but in high volume, lower charge weight M193 clones for blasting, I like a ball propellant such as H335, AA2460, AA2230/Exterminator, TAC, etc. All of these make for good load density, meter perfectly, and are on the faster side of the curve. Also like that port pressures will be less, so as to not over gas as much as possible, and TAC is incredibly clean to boot.

    Have used a lot of WW748, but charge weights are more for the same performance. Funny too how much data has changed over the years; Accurate load data circa the early 90's for AA2460 and 55 gr FMJ, is WAY over their max listed today (62k psi). I loaded AA2460 in the early 90's using their data, and it indeed was stout! .5 gr under max still got me a tested 3200 fps in a 16" IMI Galil ARM! Never any issues, just the same I load it down now, staying around 26.5 grains. Good luck.

  14. #13
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    I've used IMR4895 for every gas gun I own from the Garand, Johnson, FN 49, etc and 308 semis such as OBR's, Les Baer Match Sniper, and all of my MG's. Never had any accuracy problems with any of the loads I worked up. I use W748 in my 556 rifles and carbines.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LANT View Post
    4895 is my go-to powder and it gives me consistent results although I haven't chronographed the velocity .
    Roger that, I use 4895 for all of my full power rifles. 30-06, 54r, 7 mm Mauser etc. Lee manual iirc said it would be too hot on gas systems, but if you gents are using it successfully that may be an example of extreme caution.

  16. #15
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    YOU ARE CLAIMING YOU CAN SHOOT 55 FMJS, BETTER THAN BLACK HILLS MATCH AMMO ?
    really
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronbo6 View Post
    A number of the people I shoot with swear by Black Hills, but I DO outshoot them (no brag, just fact).

    Personally, the only stuff I have ever used (apart from a couple hundred rounds of Wolf I once tried out of curiosity) have been my reloads.

    My current favorite load is 26 grains of BLC(2) behind whoever's 55 grain FMJBT I can get for cheapest.

    In the past, I have also had some success using 3031.

    My AR's (and a 180 series Mini 14) all have pretty slow twist rifling. The fastest twist I have is one turn in 9", and it also does quite well with the 55's.

  17. #16
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    i do not know who you have been listening to, but 4895 in a 223 is very accurate,
    a pain to weight and pour in that little case , but lots of shooters love it.

    Quote Originally Posted by izzytok46 View Post
    I'm surprised to see guys using 4895, in my reading I had been told that wasn't recommended for gas guns. Too slow, or too hot. I've used blc2, and 748. Currently using cfe223. I figure why not? It's certainly the intended use. Full disclosure though, I just load for cheap blasting. I've never fully worked up a load for accuracy

  18. #17
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    50/52/55 out to 200...QUALITY bullets..even plastic tipped ones.
    300 the 68/69 match bullets work well, you can go heavier if
    you have to deal with wind.

    ( go over to the sniper forum to see what a mk13 is)
    in spite of everyone's favorite powders, do not be afraid to try
    modern powders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ar10ar15man View Post
    YOU ARE CLAIMING YOU CAN SHOOT 55 FMJS, BETTER THAN BLACK HILLS MATCH AMMO ?
    really
    The guys I shoot against do not use the match ammo. They are for the most part also using the 55's.

  20. #19
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    A number of the people I shoot with swear by Black Hills, but I DO outshoot them (no brag, just fact).
    so you do not/ cannot out shoot black hills AMMO.
    ONLY GUYS WITH MORE FMJs,
    SO YOUR COMMENT IS NOT REALLY IN CONTEXT AT ALL.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronbo6 View Post
    The guys I shoot against do not use the match ammo. They are for the most part also using the 55's.

  21. #20
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    sick

    I use 55's for recreation shooting at 100 to 300 for angle of man hits. I don't expect match accuracy nor tight groups with it.

    I use 69, 77 or 80 grain if I want tighter groups and accuracy 100 to 600 yds.

    800 and 1000 yds, I am seeking Devine Intervention to get me 1.5 MOA to 2 MOA at those distances and so far, the Good Lord has decided to leave me flapping in defeat. I am hoping he will grant me a waiver and I get some results .

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    Quote Originally Posted by ar10ar15man View Post
    A number of the people I shoot with swear by Black Hills, but I DO outshoot them (no brag, just fact).
    so you do not/ cannot out shoot black hills AMMO.
    ONLY GUYS WITH MORE FMJs,
    SO YOUR COMMENT IS NOT REALLY IN CONTEXT AT ALL.
    If I can outshooot them with similar 'Plain Jane' ammo, I will STILL be able to outshoot them with $50 a round ammo assembled in a clean room under an electron microscope.

    I am not going to argue with you about it.

  23. #22
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    yes you may be able to out shoot your buddies,
    but to bring in a well known brand name and imply your
    55 fmj's are better is a bit of a stretch for most of us.
    the "them" in your original statement does not say:
    them "your buddies" or
    them "blackhills ammo",
    do you see the difference in the comment ?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ronbo6 View Post
    If I can outshooot them with similar 'Plain Jane' ammo, I will STILL be able to outshoot them with $50 a round ammo assembled in a clean room under an electron microscope.

    I am not going to argue with you about it.

  24. #23
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    Great reloading advice guys.... Only ONE poster answered the OPs question ABOUT AMMO!
    "Saigon Tea, 60 P, you no buy you di di DI!"

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    it may say ammolab, but you need to learn to count.
    i saw at least three
    Quote Originally Posted by ammolab View Post
    Great reloading advice guys.... Only ONE poster answered the OPs question ABOUT AMMO!

  26. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by ar10ar15man View Post
    it may say ammolab, but you need to learn to count.
    i saw at least three
    Well....I made you carefully read each and every post: My goal all along!
    "Saigon Tea, 60 P, you no buy you di di DI!"

  27. #26
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    NO. SINCE I read it from the start
    i did not need to re-read it.
    i simply did a quick scan to find one more
    than mil and me...
    simple math to hit three.
    Quote Originally Posted by ammolab View Post
    Well....I made you carefully read each and every post: My goal all along!

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    I use 55's for recreation shooting at 100 to 300 for angle of man hits. I don't expect match accuracy nor tight groups with it.

    I use 69, 77 or 80 grain if I want tighter groups and accuracy 100 to 600 yds.

    800 and 1000 yds, I am seeking Devine Intervention to get me 1.5 MOA to 2 MOA at those distances and so far, the Good Lord has decided to leave me flapping in defeat. I am hoping he will grant me a waiver and I get some results .
    angle of man,,

    is that tighter than minute of cinder block or more loose?
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  29. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ar10ar15man View Post
    NO. SINCE I read it from the start
    i did not need to re-read it.
    i simply did a quick scan to find one more
    than mil and me...
    simple math to hit three.
    there is a fencepost out back if you want to argue some more
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  30. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyman1903 View Post
    angle of man,,

    is that tighter than minute of cinder block or more loose?
    Hold the presses..you defined minute of cinder block to be all the way out to 50 yds. Angle of man is out to 300 at least..500 is life support for a 55 gr .

  31. #30
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    Seems Ammo Lab follows AR15 Man around the boards and we get entertained with their sitcom re runs of the Archie Bunker vs Maude characters from 70s era TV.

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    Reading the OP, you never mention the twist rate(unless I missed something) You'll need to know that once you start stretching its legs out over a distance.
    Trans Am! More than a car its a lifestyle!

    "Was that supposed to be cool or something...?"

  34. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ar10ar15man View Post
    ouch
    depends,,

    did he call you Archie,,,,, or Maude??

    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  35. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ammolab View Post
    Great reloading advice guys.... Only ONE poster answered the OPs question ABOUT AMMO!
    this is or was considered the gold standard in 308,,, not sure about the 223\556 ammo,

    but worth a try

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/95...oint-boat-tail
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  36. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 54r man View Post
    Reading the OP, you never mention the twist rate(unless I missed something) You'll need to know that once you start stretching its legs out over a distance.
    First, thanks to all that replied to my OP. I apologize for my lack of a reply, Family issues have kept me away from the boards for awhile.

    My twist rate is 1 in 8 in a 18 inch stainless barrel.

    I finally got a set of Hornady .223 Custom Grade dies. Also picked up some Hornady Match 75 gr. BTHP bullets. The only powders I have in my limited inventory
    right now is IMR 4350 and IMR 4895. But my area has recently been graced with a new Cabelas, so I can pick up other powders and bullet weights pretty easily.

    In addition to the AR I mentioned in my OP, I also have a Savage Axis in .223 that I would like to reload for. It is a 20 inch barrel, 1 in 9 twist. This thing shoots well for a cheap factory rifle. with the Bushnell 3x9 scope that came with it, I can get 1 1/4 groups at 100 yards with 55 gr. factory Winchester loads. I would like to get the AR to do at least that well.

    I have an electronic scale to weigh powder, and some once fired brass. I don't yet have a case trimmer.

    Should I start with what I have on hand? Do I need to get different powder and /or bullet weights?

    Thanks again for all the suggestions.

  37. #36
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    with a 2.240 coal
    start with 22 and work up to 24
    of imr4895 in .3 gr steps..the last one may compress a little.
    shoot 3 shot groups to start at 100
    when something looks good re shoot in 5 or 10's.
    wind will affect a 223 so try calmer days to eval.
    try matched cases not mixed.

  38. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyman1903 View Post
    this is or was considered the gold standard in 308,,, not sure about the 223\556 ammo,

    but worth a try

    https://www.midwayusa.com/product/95...oint-boat-tail
    Thanks for the link. I ordered some, it will be fun to see if I can match it with my soon-to-be handholds.

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    I like Varget, but it's getting to stupid in price these days, last week at Cabela's they wanted >$32/lb for it. Hopefully it returns to reason before I run out. I use 25gr/55gr FMJBT to 100 which is as far as any of my ranges go to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by runner View Post
    Thanks for the link. I ordered some, it will be fun to see if I can match it with my soon-to-be handholds.
    You could try this as well:
    http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-55...izan-ammo-pp54
    Trans Am! More than a car its a lifestyle!

    "Was that supposed to be cool or something...?"

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