M27
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Thread: M27

  1. #1
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    Default M27

    Hi, I have what I believe is a M-27. Rifle is in un-issued condition, Can you experts tell me what I have. The stock has the machine marks and only a few small dings, bore is like new, metal is 100% blue, no wear.
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  2. #2
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    Very nice looking M27. Not an expert but i think the handgaurd may have been changed at some point.

  3. #3
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    Real nice most likely a replaced stock and handguard, yet correct stock and handguard. Rifle year of production is one of the most common, if you can call any M27 common. The piece is much much nicer than my 1928 M27.

    Pahtu.

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  5. #4
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    Very nice looking M27. My take on it is the wood is replaced and the rifle was probably refurbed somewhere along the line. It is almost "as new" but probably not original new? The stock has the reinforced modifications that I think were post 1934. The butt plate was probably on a Civil Guard M28 or 28/30 and who knows what before that? Real nice looking example. I just inventoried most of my collection including my M27s. It is prettier than the 3 1928s I have. Was relieved that I only have three, thought I had at least four of them. Got enough doubles to last me to the finish line. With the exception of a very few 1927s, the 1928 M27 has been around a longest of the M27 series. They made quite a few of them in 1928 but my guess is majority of them were lost, worn out or scrapped by the wars end. A common year to a degree but as Pahtu states if you can call any M27 common is debatable. Congrats on a nice one, John. PS and maybe the barreled action was unissued who am I to say?

  6. #5
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    Default Sling date

    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome Devil View Post
    Very nice looking M27. My take on it is the wood is replaced and the rifle was probably refurbed somewhere along the line. It is almost "as new" but probably not original new? The stock has the reinforced modifications that I think were post 1934. The butt plate was probably on a Civil Guard M28 or 28/30 and who knows what before that? Real nice looking example. I just inventoried most of my collection including my M27s. It is prettier than the 3 1928s I have. Was relieved that I only have three, thought I had at least four of them. Got enough doubles to last me to the finish line. With the exception of a very few 1927s, the 1928 M27 has been around a longest of the M27 series. They made quite a few of them in 1928 but my guess is majority of them were lost, worn out or scrapped by the wars end. A common year to a degree but as Pahtu states if you can call any M27 common is debatable. Congrats on a nice one, John. PS and maybe the barreled action was unissued who am I to say?
    What time frame does the sling date to? The barrel dates 1927 but the information I have found dates the serial number to 1928. Is this common ?
    Rich

  7. #6
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    We call that the "popsicle stick" bayonet lug, designed after the earlier ones broke the stock in rough bayonet practice. It is quite distinctive.

    That is a Tikka-made barrel, Finn spliced stock and the Finn sling swivels. The rear sight is Finn modified and metric.

    The "D" stamp indicates the rifle will chamber the latter Finn cartridge that more or less duplicates Russian ammo dimensions, so it is safe to shoot milsurp Russian 7.62X54R.

    A very nice rifle! Clean well after shooting, of course.

  8. #7
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    Looking at the picture the barrel says "1928". Not an expert on slings but would presume it is a WW2 vintage or newer. Does it have any markings like "SA" to denote Finnish heritage? I have bought a few slings just like that that are almost unissued and fairly inexpensive but do the trick of looking ok. A period sling would probably be leather or even homemade "tractor belt" type. Is is a nice rifle regardless and very few are still original and few yet that are original and in newish condition. My first M27 is a 1934 {another high production year} that I bought during the heyday of imports that were still active at the time. To me it is in pristine condition, many feel it was refinished and the stock has just a little to much shine. Because I bought when they were still being imported I thought it original? It is what it is, just like your rifle it is a nice example. You and I won't be able to retire on these two rifles value, but don't let anybody tell you it isn't a great example of a M27. I find that 1928,1932 and 1934 are to most often seen. 1931 and 1933 not to far behind. The rest are much less often see up for sale. They are around but if you want them you need to grab them quick and sometimes pay a little more depending. Hope some of this helps. M27s and M28s are my favorites. Luckily there are some out there that are more obsessive than I am, otherwise I would be worried. Regards, John.

    PS go read up on the M27s at the mothership page, a lot of good info there. Stocks, finishes, hardware were some of the changes that happened from beginning of production to the end. For instance there were at least 6 different stock configurations during the M27 production and rebuild programs, slotted bolt/receivers and ect. Can't find link will look for it.

  9. #8
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    I did a quick Forum search and saw that in Sept 2016 Airbornetrooper posted an existing M27 database that lists actual number by year of those M27s that survived the Wars & scrapping by the Finns. I've PM'ed him asking to get the most up to date version and I hope he will post it here as well. From what I read, 1937 and 1936 are the rarest production years that have survived.
    Last edited by Hammer; 02-23-2017 at 10:33 PM.
    Semper Fidelis !

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
    I did a quick Forum search and saw that Airbornetrooper has an existing M27 database that lists actual number by year of those M27's that survived the Wars and scrapping by the Finns. I've PM'ed him asking to get the most up to date version and I hope he will post it here as well. From what I read, 1937 and 1936 are the rarest production years that have survived.
    Two years that have escaped me to date are 1927 & 1937 for the Tikka barreled rifles. The other years I have.

    The below link has some info that is interesting....but a few months old.

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...ighlight=Pahtu

  11. #10
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    Thanks Pahtu! That's the database I was referring to. I'm very lucky, the first and only M27 Ive ever had is a 1937 which according to Airbornetroopers list is the second rarest year :-)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Finn 1937 Tikka M27.JPG  

    Finn 1937 Tikka M27 Ski-trooper model.JPG  

    Semper Fidelis !

  12. #11
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    Real nice looking hard to find rifle!

    Pahtu.

  13. #12
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    Pretty much the real tough years are

    1927

    1929

    1936

    1937

    1938 per HD Request...

    Pahtu.
    Last edited by Pahtu; 02-25-2017 at 10:11 AM.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pahtu View Post
    Pretty much the real tough years are

    1927

    1929

    1936

    1937

    Pahtu.
    And VKT 34 and VKT 35! (Pahtu knows this but VKT32s are despite what people think - not rare - 2100 made which makes them more common than many of the Tikka dates like 35, 38, 39,40, etc..and around the production of the average 28/30) Over 50 VKT32s in the database.

    Also - there are fewer 1937 Tikkas known than VKT35s.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparky236 View Post
    And VKT 34 and VKT 35! (Pahtu knows this but VKT32s are despite what people think - not rare - 2100 made which makes them more common than many of the Tikka dates like 35, 38, 39,40, etc..and around the production of the average 28/30) Over 50 VKT32s in the database.

    Also - there are fewer 1937 Tikkas known than VKT35s.
    Thanks Everyone, I pick the rifle at a military show in Biloxi Ms. for$135.00 I had no idea what it was ,I just liked the condition. Some times you just get lucky! Now I'm hooked on them. So should I call it a M27 made in 1928 ?
    Again Thanks everyone, Rich

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICHARDROSE67 View Post
    Thanks Everyone, I pick the rifle at a military show in Biloxi Ms. for$135.00 I had no idea what it was ,I just liked the condition. Some times you just get lucky! Now I'm hooked on them. So should I call it a M27 made in 1928 ?
    Again Thanks everyone, Rich
    Great deal on a $350+ gun! Yes - it is a 1928 dated M27. The dates made are 1927-1940. 1928 is second highest production date behind 1932.

  17. #16
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    Richard yes your rifle is a Finnish M27 built with a 1928 dated barrel. You did exceptionally well at bout 1/3 the going rate for that type of rifle. Do some research on your new rifle and check out this information http://mosinnagant.net/finland/The-Finnish-M27.asp
    Now I'm going to have to clean that rifle!!

  18. #17
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    Very nice M27, you couldn't buy that for 3 times in my neck of the woods. Oh, and I wouldn't sell mine for that either. Mine is a 'winged' bolt carrier version. Congrats on your rifle.

  19. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaws2 View Post
    Very nice M27, you couldn't buy that for 3 times in my neck of the woods. Oh, and I wouldn't sell mine for that either. Mine is a 'winged' bolt carrier version. Congrats on your rifle.
    My receiver is not cut for the wings nor is the bolt. Was this unusual for the M27?
    Rich

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICHARDROSE67 View Post
    My receiver is not cut for the wings nor is the bolt. Was this unusual for the M27?
    Rich
    Yes - that indicates it was either built later (after 1934) or re-built later. That doesn't make it any more valuable though.

  21. #20
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    Pahtu, I will suggest you add 1938 to your hard to find list. That year was the hardest for me to aquire. A fellow collector from VA was hoarding them, he owned like 1/5 of all the known 1938 M27s known in captivity. He felt sorry for me and finally sold me one. It and the 1927 M27 are the only years I don't have duplicates of. We will not talk about rare VKTs or 1936 M27s in this post. Yours maybe but not mine! Ha! Regards, John.

  22. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
    Thanks Pahtu! That's the database I was referring to. I'm very lucky, the first and only M27 Ive ever had is a 1937 which according to Airbornetroopers list is the second rarest year :-)
    Well ya started off with a good one!

    Pahtu.

  23. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RICHARDROSE67 View Post
    Thanks Everyone, I pick the rifle at a military show in Biloxi Ms. for$135.00 I had no idea what it was ,I just liked the condition. Some times you just get lucky! Now I'm hooked on them. So should I call it a M27 made in 1928 ?
    Again Thanks everyone, Rich
    Great rifle at a great price!

    Pahtu.

  24. #23
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    OP, great find at a great price. The M27's are probably my favorite Finnish made rifles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
    I did a quick Forum search and saw that in Sept 2016 Airbornetrooper posted an existing M27 database that lists actual number by year of those M27s that survived the Wars & scrapping by the Finns. I've PM'ed him asking to get the most up to date version and I hope he will post it here as well. From what I read, 1937 and 1936 are the rarest production years that have survived.
    Not really in a post-able format, but I'll update my content from the previous post.

    1927: 21 (no change)
    1928: 85 (+5)
    1929: 19 (+2)
    1930: 24 (+3)
    1931: 72 (+2)
    1932: 112 (+4)
    1933: 84 (+3)
    1934: 125 (+5)
    1935: 53 (+2)
    1936: 9 (no change)
    1937: 13 (+1)
    1938: 17 (no change)
    1939: 39 (+1)
    1940: 49 (no change)

    VKT:

    1932: 57 (+7)
    1934: 1 (no change)
    1935: 13 (no change)

    Hope this helps.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails M27 Group Photo.jpg  

    M27 Barrel Photo Collage.jpg  


  25. #24
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    Hi, Is there any way to see who made the receiver ? The only markings on it are on the bottom of the tang . It has a stamp that looks like a ""T'' or a hammer, the number 900 r and a II. ? Also on the bottom of the barrel ''P'' "1'' and the number 4060.

  26. #25
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    Post a picture of those marks on the bottom of the tang.
    Now I'm going to have to clean that rifle!!

  27. #26
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    It is a hammer, made in Tula 1900

  28. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparky236 View Post
    Yes - that indicates it was either built later (after 1934) or re-built later. That doesn't make it any more valuable though.
    The winged connecting bar on the carrier was on the FIRST M27 models as well as the receivers through 1933. This was discontinued due to dirt getting in the receiver channel where the wings fit. Anything after 1933 would not have the winged connector.
    Richard

  29. #28
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    Default 1900 Tula receiver

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaws2 View Post
    The winged connecting bar on the carrier was on the FIRST M27 models as well as the receivers through 1933. This was discontinued due to dirt getting in the receiver channel where the wings fit. Anything after 1933 would not have the winged connector.
    Richard
    Hi, So I have a 1900 Tula receiver with no cut for the wings. Barrel date 1927. Did the Finns not cut all the early receivers for the wings? Or was it assembled with a 1927 barrel after 1933? The more I find out about this rifle the more I like it. On the bottom of the barrel they marked it ''P'' and a ''1'' below it and the number 4060. is this any help?
    Rich

  30. #29
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    Your rifle was most likely assembled after '32'. Keep in mind that the Finns used captured, or purchased Russian receivers on their rifles. Parts were thrown into a bin and an assembler would grab what's available to assemble. These guys weren't collecting, they were trying to win a war. It's possible, although slim, to actually find an M27 with a receiver that's been cut but with a connector that doesn't have the wings. Early years in the field soldiers would toss the winged connector if they could find a regular bolt because the rifle had a tendency to gum up with debris. The M27 was the only rifle that had a winged connector and receiver. You'll find all kinds of numbers on Mosin rifle barrels. A lot of these are just a number assigned passing through assembly, or early inspection.

    You can really help yourself by going to mosinnagant.net and clicking on the Finnish section. You'll gather info on all aspects of your rifle.
    Richard

  31. #30
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    The rifle is a M27 but it is dated 1928. Sure it is just a typo but it has been corrected a number of times. 1928 is the date shown and that matches the sn# too. Or your original rifle was damaged and the barrel was put on different receiver during rebuild/refurb. Even the US reused usable 1903 barrels on the 1903 Springfield rifles {usually had an "A" stamped under the date}. Not sure the USA did that during the whole run of that series or not but after WW1 I know they did. Hard to prove which direction yours went as far as how the barrel and non cut receiver came to be together? Regards, John.

  32. #31
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    Default Thanks evryone

    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome Devil View Post
    The rifle is a M27 but it is dated 1928. Sure it is just a typo but it has been corrected a number of times. 1928 is the date shown and that matches the sn# too. Or your original rifle was damaged and the barrel was put on different receiver during rebuild/refurb. Even the US reused usable 1903 barrels on the 1903 Springfield rifles {usually had an "A" stamped under the date}. Not sure the USA did that during the whole run of that series or not but after WW1 I know they did. Hard to prove which direction yours went as far as how the barrel and non cut receiver came to be together? Regards, John.
    I have often wondered where old rifles have been and what they went through, it is sad that better records have not been kept, but than again we may not like what they have done. Both men and guns have been through hell. 1965-72 been there done that.
    Again thanks everyone
    Rich

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