FTR No 1 Mark III
Results 1 to 28 of 28

Thread: FTR No 1 Mark III

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    137

    Default FTR No 1 Mark III

    Was wanting to know who rebuilt this rifle.

    Thank you,

    Tommy

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3440.jpg 
Views:	87 
Size:	317.0 KB 
ID:	1987801Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3441.jpg 
Views:	88 
Size:	307.8 KB 
ID:	1987809Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3442.jpg 
Views:	83 
Size:	299.1 KB 
ID:	1987817Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3443.jpg 
Views:	72 
Size:	300.8 KB 
ID:	1987825Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3444.jpg 
Views:	73 
Size:	295.3 KB 
ID:	1987833

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    11,944

    Default

    I have one exactly like that ...every mark and condition is same

    Years ago the board told me its a post war FTR contract done by BSA for some nation who never
    purchased the rifles and they were sold then surplus.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,022

    Default

    As I understand it they were done in the UK. The last No1 rifle FTR run. These are about the closest you can get to getting an new issue No1 rifle IMHO, if you exclude much more recent put-togethers.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    GunBoards.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Queensland
    Posts
    3,117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4thGordons View Post
    As I understand it they were done in the UK. The last No1 rifle FTR run. These are about the closest you can get to getting an new issue No1 rifle IMHO, if you exclude much more recent put-togethers.
    Yes, but not more recent than the last runs of Lithgow FTR's that can be found like new. These ran up until 1959/60. Sorry, not trying to nitpick here. Just making the point for readers not aware.
    Of course you are right as far as English factories go.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Eastern England
    Posts
    1,205

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DEMO View Post
    Yes, but not more recent than the last runs of Lithgow FTR's that can be found like new. These ran up until 1959/60. Sorry, not trying to nitpick here. Just making the point for readers not aware.
    Of course you are right as far as English factories go.
    Not trying to nitpick, but, if to really want 'new & recent' No1 Mk3's then they were still being produced in Ishapore well into the 1980s
    Latest I have seen is 1986


    "When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over many years,
    the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic". Dresden James

    All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,397

    Default

    Despite years of collecting and studying, I don't think I've ever seen one like this. Always something new to learn in the world of Enfields.
    Nothing worthwhile ever comes easily.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,022

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan De Enfield View Post
    Not trying to nitpick, but, if to really want 'new & recent' No1 Mk3's then they were still being produced in Ishapore well into the 1980s
    Latest I have seen is 1986

    Now you have seen an 88!
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1988-0781AD.jpg 
Views:	46 
Size:	316.1 KB 
ID:	1988849

    My point was not so much the relative recency of production as the "as issued" (new) condition. I was unaware Lithgows could be found like that and all the Ishapores I have/have seen have seen marked use!

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    638

    Default

    While the '53 refurbs are good solid rifles, they are hardly "new, as issued"- more accurately, an unused one is as issued post refurb. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe any British manufactured SMLE was ever delivered new from the factory with any finish other than bluing. The latest new production, I believe, was the "dispersal rifles" which appear to me to have been blued. Again, correct me if I'm wrong but aren't very late Ishapore SMLE's still blued as they came from the factory? My '48 certainly was. At some point Lithgow went with the distinctive green parkerization but without any paint on top. I would be curious to know if the '53 BSA SMLE refurbs are finished with suncorite on top of a parkerized finish as with the post war (and late war?) No. 4 refurbs.

    Riprecht

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    11,944

    Default

    Rup,

    My 53 FTR by BSA No.1 MkIII* has a blue mat finish...like a blue parkerized finish. Does not appear to be suncorite. It has a new barrel on it, new wood and all other parts refinished parts. It is serial numbered head to toe correctly and its obvious they used a matching bolt to action and any other serviceable parts off the bins to complete the rifle. It is brand new condition but its hardly original but it is a fine FTR and drop dead gorgeous. The rifle was unfired since FTR and bore pristine when the grease was removed.

    It was sold to me for $250 as the magazine in it was missing and the owner had a spare No.4 mag to toss in to the deal. This was 8 yrs ago. Brian Dick LTD, sold me the proper New Old Stock mint in grease No. 1 magazine for $60 and I bled..but paid it.

    Now ...were these FTR post WWII No.1's coming out of BSA with matching mags ? If so...then my FTR is not "correct". Well.....if its not "correct", its good enuff for me.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    638

    Default

    milprileb: Yes, an important piece for a collection and I have yet to find one. That's interesting that your finish doesn't appear to be suncorite. It's difficult to find much about original finishes, either new manufacture or refurb. The factory specific info is probably lost to the ages. For example, I have a "T" that is stampedes having undergone a Maltby FTR which, I believe dates the work to late war or immediate post war. The paint does appear to be very hard suncorite but there's no park layer beneath. Is this the actual FTR finish or somebody with a spray can 10 years ago? Regards.

    Ruprecht

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    137

    Default

    I am not an expert on the finishes, but it looks like the receiver is painted. Other parts are either painted or possibly blued. Will take some daylight pictures this weekend for reference. Nosecap, fore stock and back of the bolt are numbered. Magazine is not numbered on the bottom but will check the back. Bore is like new and the crown is bare metal from the machining process showing tool marks.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,022

    Default

    I have one of these too in almost identical condition - I will dig it out and check, my recollection is that it is a very deep blue/blackening, but it may indeed be a suncorite type finish.

    Ruprecht: OK, as an FTR clearly not "new" so I will back off that -- but I will stand by the "As issued" (or perhaps "as would have been issued") as you say, an "unfired post FTR" rifle.
    All my Dispersal rifles are indeed blued and I would agree these are the last UK production No1 rifles of which I am aware (although some it seems to me use recycled / remarked receivers.

    All of my Ishapores are blued too - although many (especially the later ones -- although interestingly NOT the 1980s ones) have a thickish layer of black enamel over it. Under the paint is usually a good quality blueing.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    960

    Default

    Is the rearsight guard on backwards or is it straight like an Indian one? Or a trick of the light?

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Illinois USA
    Posts
    3,492

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doogal View Post
    Is the rearsight guard on backwards or is it straight like an Indian one? Or a trick of the light?
    It's facing the correct way. They may have used an RFI sight protector as I can't make out the offset.
    2016 Chicago Cubs. MLB Champions!

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    960

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JB White View Post
    It's facing the correct way. They may have used an RFI sight protector as I can't make out the offset.
    That's what I thought....I wonder if they're all like that?

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,022

    Default

    Mine does not have an Indian rear-sight protector on but DOES have an Indian nose-cap (with no provision for swivel and Indian inspection marks)
    The finish appears to be a mix of blue/black and a coating it is not glossy but if you see where the BNP stamp was applied (second pic) some flaking is visible.
    Interestingly mine appears to have a reused Lithgow (1950) fore-end - which I had not noticed previously.
    The receiver is a 1918 BSA, the rear sight has been renumbered 3 times!
    (I forgot to check if the mag is numbered)

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2-24 FTR-5.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	294.6 KB 
ID:	1990457Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2-24 FTR-4.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	309.1 KB 
ID:	1990449Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2-24 FTR-2.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	306.7 KB 
ID:	1990433Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2-24 FTR-1.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	305.1 KB 
ID:	1990425Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2-24 FTR-3.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	293.2 KB 
ID:	1990441

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    960

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4thGordons View Post
    Mine does not have an Indian rear-sight protector on but DOES have an Indian nose-cap (with no provision for swivel and Indian inspection marks)
    The finish appears to be a mix of blue/black and a coating it is not glossy but if you see where the BNP stamp was applied (second pic) some flaking is visible.
    Interestingly mine appears to have a reused Lithgow (1950) fore-end - which I had not noticed previously.
    The receiver is a 1918 BSA, the rear sight has been renumbered 3 times!
    (I forgot to check if the mag is numbered)



    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2-24 FTR-5.jpg 
Views:	23 
Size:	294.6 KB 
ID:	1990457Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2-24 FTR-4.jpg 
Views:	27 
Size:	309.1 KB 
ID:	1990449Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2-24 FTR-2.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	306.7 KB 
ID:	1990433Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2-24 FTR-1.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	305.1 KB 
ID:	1990425Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2-24 FTR-3.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	293.2 KB 
ID:	1990441

    I wonder how a 1950 Lithgow for-end came to be re-used on a 1953 British FTR?

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,022

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doogal View Post
    I wonder how a 1950 Lithgow for-end came to be re-used on a 1953 British FTR?
    me too! (I'll try and photograph the markings when I go back and dig it out to check the magazine for a number)
    It is interesting that both my rifle and the OP rifle have a darker (walnut?) butt and much lighter fore-end and handguards. It also appears the op's rifle has a nosecap without provision for a swivel.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Beach Va, not Va Beach
    Posts
    22,135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 4thGordons View Post
    I have one of these too in almost identical condition - I will dig it out and check, my recollection is that it is a very deep blue/blackening, but it may indeed be a suncorite type finish.

    Ruprecht: OK, as an FTR clearly not "new" so I will back off that -- but I will stand by the "As issued" (or perhaps "as would have been issued") as you say, an "unfired post FTR" rifle.
    All my Dispersal rifles are indeed blued and I would agree these are the last UK production No1 rifles of which I am aware (although some it seems to me use recycled / remarked receivers.

    All of my Ishapores are blued too - although many (especially the later ones -- although interestingly NOT the 1980s ones) have a thickish layer of black enamel over it. Under the paint is usually a good quality blueing.
    I have a 70's Ishapore that was FTR's in the 70's (posted about in another thread) that is blued, nicely, no suncorite or paint
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    137

    Default

    Finish looks like suncorite. Mag is unnumbered


    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3445.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	303.9 KB 
ID:	1990761Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3446.jpg 
Views:	19 
Size:	297.0 KB 
ID:	1990769Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3447.jpg 
Views:	17 
Size:	298.8 KB 
ID:	1990777Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3448.jpg 
Views:	18 
Size:	300.3 KB 
ID:	1990785Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3449.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	299.5 KB 
ID:	1990793Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3450.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	307.9 KB 
ID:	1990801Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_3451.jpg 
Views:	16 
Size:	303.2 KB 
ID:	1990809

  22. #21
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    322

    Default

    I have one just like this as well. Mine is also on a 1918 BSA receiver, Canadian marked.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20161223_131737.jpg 
Views:	5 
Size:	273.8 KB 
ID:	1991353
    Last edited by DisasterDog; 02-25-2017 at 01:48 AM. Reason: pic added
    Better to have it & not need it, than to need it & not have it...

    "The politics of failure have failed!" -Kang

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    11,944

    Default

    Tomato,

    Thanks for the fine photos. You've made me re evaluate my rifle as it looks exactly like yours and if that is Suncorite, then I am wrong in what I posted above. I got to lay it aside my No.5's and compare Suncorite finishes outside in the daylight. I'll post my analysis in a few days, off to ranges this weekend...its 60F in February ...got to take advantage of that.

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    186

    Default

    So do all of these FTR 1953 rifles have the BSA commercial marked barrel. The reason I ask is that I had one of these a few years ago and it did.

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    1,022

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shoe303 View Post
    So do all of these FTR 1953 rifles have the BSA commercial marked barrel. The reason I ask is that I had one of these a few years ago and it did.

    Mine does not have a BSA commercially marked barrel (although it does have civ. proofing marks) and the magazine is NOT numbered.

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,763

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doogal View Post
    I wonder how a 1950 Lithgow for-end came to be re-used on a 1953 British FTR?
    Maybe it is a Lithgow FTR

  27. #26
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    322

    Default

    Maybe it's a replacement for a sporterized rifle. May explain some Indian parts on some of these, too. Makes me feel better about the limited options for restoring mine though!
    Better to have it & not need it, than to need it & not have it...

    "The politics of failure have failed!" -Kang

  28. #27
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    322

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    I have one exactly like that ...every mark and condition is same

    Years ago the board told me its a post war FTR contract done by BSA for some nation who never
    purchased the rifles and they were sold then surplus.
    Any idea which nation?
    Better to have it & not need it, than to need it & not have it...

    "The politics of failure have failed!" -Kang

  29. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Michigan Mini-Pattern Room
    Posts
    2,329

    Default

    It was for an Arabic country and I don't know if they were bought or not. The order also included No.2 MkIV* .22rf rifles as well. For what ever reason, the .22 I have had the nose cap stacking swivel stud removed and was refinished to match the rest of the rifle.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •