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Thread: Gew 88 Danzig 1890 and Steyr 1894 sections

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    Default Gew 88 Danzig 1890 and Steyr 1894 sections

    I saw all the great info on the other post about the 88 that sold well for one of our board members so I hastly dug out mine just to see what info I could find out about it. It's am Danzig dated 1890 with two sets of unit marks (one set XXed out). The rifle receiver, barrel and trigger section are matching numbered but the bolt is marked in another style that from reading here is Turkish. I had purchased this rifle from a co worker 6 years ago. It was in a pile of rifles left over from his fathers collection who passed away 15 yrs prior to that.

    Markings on the stock that I cannot make out but show in the photos and it has the mag base cover and the sling loop you all were talking about in the other thread. The other rifle is basically a parts rifle that is complete but is a project for another time down the road as it needs another stock.

    Here are photos of first rifle.

















    Last edited by Mybusa; 10-23-2008 at 10:38 PM.
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    Mybusa,

    The Austrian M.13 is a Gew 88, not a Gew 88/05, which you show. This pretty much leaves Turkey as a possible user of your rifles.
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

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    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

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    Nick

    What makes the 05? Is it the mod to accept the longer bullet? And if so the Steyr I have that has not been notched would still be an 88? I love learning new things!
    Mark

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  4. #4

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    Mybusa, you have a Gew88/05 used by Turkey during and after WW1. The /05 conversion was done by adding clip holders for the Mauser style, 5 round stripper clip on the top of the receiver's rear as shown in your 4th and 12th photos. There were also changes to the magazine. The rear sling swivel is, of course, too small for the M95 A-H sling burt will handle a 1 and 1/8 inch wide sling just fine. Not sure what you are referring to when you said "mod to accept the longer bullet", the "S" round used during WW1 and after was shorter than the original 7.9 round.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by TP View Post
    Mybusa, you have a Gew88/05 used by Turkey during and after WW1. The /05 conversion was done by adding clip holders for the Mauser style, 5 round stripper clip on the top of the receiver's rear as shown in your 4th and 12th photos. There were also changes to the magazine. The rear sling swivel is, of course, too small for the M95 A-H sling burt will handle a 1 and 1/8 inch wide sling just fine. Not sure what you are referring to when you said "mod to accept the longer bullet", the "S" round used during WW1 and after was shorter than the original 7.9 round.
    Isn't he talking about the cutout under the manufacture year?
    Turning relics into near-relics since 2005.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Murvihill View Post
    Isn't he talking about the cutout under the manufacture year?


    Probably?

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    Quote Originally Posted by David Murvihill View Post
    Isn't he talking about the cutout under the manufacture year?
    This cutout (thumb relief) was only applied to the 88/05 modification.
    Last edited by Nick; 10-24-2008 at 09:04 AM.
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не пье - то вiн або хворий, або подлюка." - Невідомий українець

  8. #8

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    Nick, you are correct about the deep thumb cut-out on the siderail being only seen on the 88/05 (a Turkish modification) but I believe he was talking about the bullet cut-out under the date on the receiver ring. This was not necessary when either the 7.9 "J" or 7.9 "JS" rounds were used in the packet clip but was needed with the magazine modifications for stripper clip use on the Gew88/05 and Gew88/14.

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    Oh, I get it. I thought that whole "S on the receiver=Spitzer bullet" thingy was rearing it's ugly head again.
    Turning relics into near-relics since 2005.

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    Yes on the rounded cut near the date on top of the receiver. Thanks for all the information on the rifle. Is there any idea as to how many went through this conversion such as mine? Did Turkey do the mods or where they done by the Germans before shipment to Turkey? Is this safe to shoot military surplus 8mm Mauser?
    Last edited by Mybusa; 10-24-2008 at 03:45 PM.
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    The /05 conversion was done by the Germans before the Great War, the rifle illustrated has no further mods done other than the added rear sling swivel.

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    I inherited a Danzig 1890 with all the markings of the one above except mine has a crescent moon above the crown. Mine doesn't have any Xed out markings. I am pretty sure that it is a Turkish gun. When was it made and what calliber is it please? Is it a German made weapon?
    Thanks
    CF

  13. #13

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    It is German and it was made in 1890 at Danzig, the /05 modifications were done by German ca. 1905. The Crescent Moon is a Turkish property mark indicating that it was given by Germany to Turkey as war aid during WW1. Unless it has been modified in any other way it is 7.9mm caliber and will accept the standard German ammunition BUT..... Carefully read the post in the stickies above, here is a link to it:

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...and-Ammunition

    Be sure to slug your barrel and follow the information posted by Mag and several others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TP View Post
    It is German and it was made in 1890 at Danzig, the /05 modifications were done by German ca. 1905. The Crescent Moon is a Turkish property mark indicating that it was given by Germany to Turkey as war aid during WW1. Unless it has been modified in any other way it is 7.9mm caliber and will accept the standard German ammunition BUT..... Carefully read the post in the stickies above, here is a link to it:

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...and-Ammunition

    Be sure to slug your barrel and follow the information posted by Mag and several others.
    Thank you very much!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TP View Post
    Nick, you are correct about the deep thumb cut-out on the siderail being only seen on the 88/05 (a Turkish modification) but I believe he was talking about the bullet cut-out under the date on the receiver ring. This was not necessary when either the 7.9 "J" or 7.9 "JS" rounds were used in the packet clip but was needed with the magazine modifications for stripper clip use on the Gew88/05 and Gew88/14.
    Happy New Year TP!

    Hope i am not mis-reading what you said. The thumb groove on the one is the one done by the Germans on the 88/05. The deeper one that mimics the Gew 98 was done by Turkey.

    Turkish use Gew 88/05 rifles are found with the modified rear sling swivel. Did they get the idea from A.K.? Maybe. Czech made Turkish bolts are common also.

    This Danzig has additional side rail letter marks on the left side rail, common to Danzig rifles. Mybusa, is the front band / nose cap matching? What is the regimental stamp? 4. R. ? . ???

    Thanks for posting the photos!

  16. #16

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    Happy New Year to you as well George! Yes, the Mauser style thumb cut out found on the siderail of the Gew88/05 is indeed a Turkish modification.

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    Just bought my first GEW88 last week. Why are some receiver rings stamped with a crown and some are not? Mine is a 1891 Loewe without the crown. Also, why are some barrels tapered at the receiver end and some are not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bohanan66 View Post
    Just bought my first GEW88 last week. Why are some receiver rings stamped with a crown and some are not? Mine is a 1891 Loewe without the crown. Also, why are some barrels tapered at the receiver end and some are not?
    The ones with crowns were manufactured at Imperial German government-owned arsenals like Spandau, Danzig, Erfurt and Amberg. You will note that the crowns differ from each other,probably based on the location of the Arsenal. For instance, the Amberg arsenal probably belonged to the Kingdom of Bavaria (within the Empire) and its crown mark reflects that. The crown just indicates Imperial ownership of the arsenal. Ludwig Loewe & Co. was a privately owned firm, and would not have used the crown on its manufactured products. Later, on the GEW 98 rifles, the crowns do not appear on the DWM and Mauser Oberndorff rifles, because those were private companies, but they continued on the Imperial arsenal rifles.

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    Makes sense. Thanks Bandook!

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    Further to the Turk Use Gew88/05 Rifle shown.
    The Bolt is a 1920s ZB-made replacement, as it is numbered in Turkish script ( look for a "circle Z" mark under the root of the bolt, and also on other bolt parts); at the time, the rear sights would have also been "milled and re-stamped" in Turkish script, up to 1928; after 1928, such sights were again re-milled and restamped with Indo-Arabic numbers (Western) to reflect the change in Turkey's Written language to Roman letters.

    Many of the Turkish property Gew88/05s were then also fully reblued, whereas the original (German) G88/05s had receiver and bolt "in the white".

    regards,
    Doc AV
    AV Ballistics.

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    Default GEW88/05 1890 Danzig - New memeber w/ some Questions...

    SUMMARY:
    I have read the board thoroughly at least 10 times now and have some questions and/or want to just verify some things... I recently came in possession of this rifle as it was headed to the local police station for disposal and was lucky enough to get my hands on it... Even if it has NO value, it is in such great shape, it already has great intrinsic value to me... The rifle I have is identical to the one pictured except for the but sling piece... It would appear I have a GEW88/05 1890 Danzig German made w/ absolutely no rust, mostly in the white and the bolt assembly definitely in pristine original white... All fasteners appear as if it has never been worked on... It has spent 50 years in a lite canvas case stored in a closet and taken out and cleaned and oiled occasionally and there is NO build up of old grease anywhere and it has a good bore... All cartouches (stampings) are very well defined and the stock is obviously been in use, but overall for a 100 year old military piece probably rate at 90% or better... In fact, I would say the whole rifle is 90%+, but forget the phrase used for that condition...

    Regimental Stamp # from barrel band 46.B.9.236. and a great condition forearm cap... Band does not appear at it has ever been removed, or if so, they were awful careful...

    It has the all the correct cartouches as referred to in the board and in the pictures including the 'crescent moon' between the 'S' and the crown... There appear to be numerous other markings everywhere not mentioned... In fact, every time I look at it I find more cartouches (markings)... For example, the crescent moon is stamped carefully almost anywhere I look, anyhow...

    QUESTIONS:
    1. Is the cutout (thumb relief) in the pictured rifle done by the Turks or the Germans as I was some confused by that... I am assuming the pictures where of a rifle the German's had made and modified... Correct?... If the 05 modifications had been done by the Turks, how would the rounded rail piece be described other than "deeper" I think it was (less rail height)?

    2. BARREL: The actual barrel, I would assume, is smaller than the larger OD tube that at first glance appears as the barrel... Does this larger tube act to tension the smaller barrel inside and also give the smaller barrel more durability and overall strength w/ lighter weight...

    3. CLEANING ROD: The rod in my rifle is only 18-20 inches long and I unscrew it to get it out, OR, is there another extension piece inside the forestock that I need to retrieve and tightly screw onto the shorter piece...

    4. BUTT STOCK SLING: This piece on mine appears time wise original, but, is quite different than that in the pictures... The inside width is approx. .7 inches x approx. .9 inches long and comes apart by pulling a spring loaded pin through the butt end bracket and the opposite side plate swivels away from the pin to open up and remove or insert a sling or remove the swivel entirely... Also, there is the traditional shaped sling piece that is some larger at approx. .9 inches in wide permanently attached on the end of this detachable sling piece...

    5. Assuming from the board information, the year of the rifle could vary from pre to post 1905... Can this date be defined closer than that... I guess I am assuming the rifle was made pre 05 mod - your thoughts...

    6. WORTH: Any thoughts on value of this rifle... I only ask as if it is worth $1k or more, I will totally disassemble and inspect/clean/oil and probably shoot this since it's condition is so nice & it will definitely be a novelty piece at the local range...

    7. Is ammo available and is it 7.9mm or 8mm Mauser... Also saw some 8mm ammo for sale on your web site and I also remember mention of some 'Short' 8mm ammo mentioned... So, I guess this begs the question, what specific ammo am I looking for... Is pre WWI 8mm ammo the same as current 8mm ammo except for the chamber pressures...

    8. Not to be a smart ___, but since I do not read Turkish, any clue as to the different elevation marking on the adjustable sight...

    9. Any other thoughts or corrections & sorry for all the questions... Great board... Hum, any other resources to find out more about this rifle anyone can offer...

    MANY Thanks in Advance,
    John / East Bay Area, CA

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    #1: the cut in the picture was done by the germans. a cut made by the turks looks like this "http://www.fototime.com/D9E310402995B6F/standard.jpg"

    #2: the barrel shroud was used to float the barrel to produce better accuracy etc.

    #5: Gew 88's are almost all made pre-1899. very few were made after. your rifle is most likely before, 1905 is when the modification was made to the rifle, not manufacture.

    #6: need to see pics to tell you anything really. but check the auction sites.

    #7: commercial 8mm mauser (7.92x57, 8x57 etc) will most likely be fine in your rifle.

    thats the jist of it, someone will come answer these in mor detail im sure

  23. #23
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    #3. The rod unscrews.
    #4. Pics will help. There are several types that were used by the German Army over the years between 1889 - 1918.
    #5. If dated 1890, that was the year of manufacture. Half of all Gew 88 production was done that year, so 1890's are the most common year.

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    wyliecoyote
    #3. The rod unscrews.
    #4. Pics will help. There are several types that were used by the German Army over the years between 1889 - 1918.
    #5. If dated 1890, that was the year of manufacture. Half of all Gew 88 production was done that year, so 1890's are the most common year.

    cyten
    #1: the cut in the picture was done by the Germans. a cut made by the Turks looks like this "http://www.fototime.com/D9E310402995B6F/standard.jpg"
    #2: the barrel shroud was used to float the barrel to produce better accuracy etc.
    #5: Gew 88's are almost all made pre-1899. very few were made after. your rifle is most likely before, 1905 is when the modification was made to the rifle, not manufacture.
    #6: need to see pics to tell you anything really. but check the auction sites.
    #7: commercial 8mm mauser (7.92x57, 8x57 etc) will most likely be fine in your rifle.



    Many Thanks to you both for your replies... It has been really amazing to read all the information and on all the boards re Gew 88ís and all the information that so many have taken the time to provide... This makes leaning about this piece even more fun... You both have verified beyond much doubt that I have a Gew 88/05

    I am going to take pictures of the Gew 88 I own, BUT, it is going to take awhile as there are numerous cartouche IDs marks all over the rifle to digitize and upload... I have been going to make a count of just the markings and would thro out a guesstimant that there is a conservative 50+ markings... The stock alone has a set of 4 approx Ĺ inch wide and would appear done in a vertical fashion (one symbol on top of the other)... The but plate had 2 set of marks... The bolt handle alone has 3 that I can remember offhand where it attaches to the bolt, and all these are very precise and distinguishable except for the marking in the stock, only because wood does not make a good substraight to make a stamping into...

    RE:
    1. The reference picture was great, thanks...

    2. I assumed the barrel was made to float, but that concept, although common now days, really caught me off guard in an 1890 rifle...

    3. I know the cleaning rod unscrews, but an 18 inch cleaning rod does not make sense unless they used an accessory to pull it thru the barrel...

    7. Thanks for the likely ammunition... My bore measures a consistent 7.88mm or 8.05mm depending whether or not a pick up the rifling, so that is only a difference of 0.0082 inches and my calipers are 4 place (.0000) and this was in a rather dark room so I was a bit conservative w/ caliper pressure and seating...

    Iíll be back w/ pictures in a week or so...

  25. #25
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    When, oh when is Storz' 88 & 91 book coming out?

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