Balkan M91 Characteristics/Heritage
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Thread: Balkan M91 Characteristics/Heritage

  1. #1
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    Default Balkan M91 Characteristics/Heritage

    Hey all,

    Just doing some information gathering on what is commonly called the Balkan area M91s.

    These guns typically have the Russian Crests defaced, mismatched numbers, have a unique font on renumbered parts, a 'balkan' wedge in the rear sight, and have been seen with C, G, T, and F markings added to the serial number area. There are numerous other markings as well.

    If you have one of these guns, could you post what you have so we can get a better understanding of where these guns may have come from in the Balkan region. Could you also note in your post what markings the gun has and any balkan traits. Also if they are capture marked by another country, such as Germany or Austria.

    So far we know the C marked guns indicate Serbia. JPS has a F suffix marked gun with a Russian D in a circle that is thought to indicate Serbia as well.

    Lets pool some information and see what we can substantiate on these guns!

  2. #2
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    Here are some notes I'd previously taken on rifles that I own or that have passed through my collection.

    1898 Tula, scrubbed, AZF marked. No import marks but looks like any other recent import. Bolt mismatch. peened rear sight wedge. Tall block font. No pinecones stamps, three interlocking Fs under buttplate

    1907 Izhevsk. scrubbed, Romanian two-piece stock. TI stamped on shank, N prefix on serial number, sight wedge. tall font, mismatched bolt

    1915 Tula, scrubbed, Serb C, Billboard import stamp, steel crossbolt retrofitted over wooden one, repaired sling swivel holes, pinecone stamp, sight wedge, tall font, interlocking Xs under buttplate

    1915 Westinghouse. Scrubbed, pinecones, F serial suffix, gearwheel stock stamp, tall font, mismatched bolt, sight wedge, four Ks in a line under buttplate

    1916 Remington, scrubbed, renumbered with F suffix, pinecone, tall font, sight wedge

    1916 Sestroryetsk Instructie. lightly scrubbed. Lined out serial, F suffix, tall font, sight wedge, gearwheel stamp

    1916 Sestroryetsk, scrubbed, Romanian spliced stock, tall font, sight wedge, Serb C stamp

    1917 Remington, total mismatch with small original Russian style font, F suffix, not scrubbed, no wedge, no pinecones, "Aurel" carved in stock, billboard import stamp

    1917 Tula, scrubbed, Romanian spliced stock, Sight wedge, Tall font

    1917 Tula scrubbed, sight wedge, tall font, pinecone stamps, six letter Us in a line under buttplate

    1917 Sestroryetsk, Scrubbed, F suffix, sight wedge, pinecones and gearwheel stamp, Tall font, sloppy white stripe on stock

    1917 Sestroryetsk , scrubbed, wooden crossbolt under steel one, F suffix, pinecone stamp, sight wedge. Mag floorplate is numbered in small unscrubbed font, the bolt and buttplate tall font

  3. #3
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    A couple more. 1918 Tula Instructie. No PTG stamp applied. C (serb?) stamp. Sight wedge. Matching buttplate, tall font.

    1918 tula PTG. pinecone stamp. Rear sight wedge. Tall font.

    1918 Remington. Instructie. Romanian spliced stock. Sight wedge. Tall font.

    1921 Tula. Partially scrubbed. Pinecone and gear wheel stamps. RAF and C on stock. Sight wedge. Tall font.

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  5. #4
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    Glad to help. This one only matches on the butt-plate. I was intrigued by both the Izhevsk and Tula markings on the barrel.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Aut Pax Aut Bellum

  6. #5
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    1915 NEW INSTRUCTIE, not scrubbed, but it's mis-matched. No sight wedge. buttplate is early 1890's numbered across the back face, but mismatched. Bolt has a Tall Font number on it, but it's lined out and the bolt was not re-numbered to the rifle (i.e. it now is not serialized to anything). No suffix. I don't see any stamped in the wood at all, and if there is a roundel, it's under the thick red INSTRUCTIE band.

  7. #6
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    Cool 1911 M91, I don't have one of them! Per the two or three on going discussions. These "Balkan imports" can actually be very interesting to check out. Think I have at least two that are nothing but parts rifles with nothing I interesting I can find on them. Couple are treasure troves full of questionable markings. Most look like your typical of 100 + year old rifles that lived a lot of life. SA1911a1 that is a nice rifle, got any more pics? Regards, John.

  8. #7
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    Here's a weird Balkan rifle. I have a couple but this one is the most vexing...
    Photos 1,4.
    -1904 Izhevsk dragoon, F suffix serial number. Number 4 next to defaced crest on receiver.
    Photo 2.
    -no markings on either side of rear sight block apart from the numeral 9 near the hand guard.
    Photo 3.
    -Somebody must have logged a LOT of miles on horseback with the pommel of the saddle rubbing against the stock to wear a groove like that!!!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_1214.jpg   IMG_1217.jpg   IMG_1216.jpg   IMG_1215.jpg  

  9. #8
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    I have an 1894 Tula. The barrel shank and receiver are scrubbed. It has an F after the serial number and a real clear crown/m stamp. The buttplate and magazine plate were forced matched to the barrel serial, though the bolt is a mismatch. The buttplate I think is original because you can remnants of the original number, it was just stamped over. Two pinecone stamps on the stock.

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    up

  11. #10
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    All these are Romanian obr. 1891. Romania kept them well into the 50s when no other country in the world had them - see photo below.

    Bulgaria disposed of their obr. 1891 before WWII (sold to Finland), so did Serbia; Turkish obr. 1891 are easily recognizable. These are the Balkan countries that had obr. 1891. Greece never had them. Albania was created too late to have any of those.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Romanian Soldiers with obr 1891.jpg  
    Last edited by Nick; 03-16-2017 at 03:27 PM.
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

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    Nick........You mean like the "Bulgarian pinecone???"

    ;>)

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    So the rifles have a Romanian wedge(ie) on the rear sight instead of a Balkan wedge(ie).....

    Pahtu.

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    With or without the Balkan font?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JPS View Post
    With or without the Balkan font?
    Whoever came up with this pearl wasn't very educated...
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

    "Бросая в воду камешки, смотри на круги, ими образуемые; иначе такое бросание будет пустою забавою." - Козьма Прутков

    "A який чоловiк горилку не п'є - то вiн або хворий, або падлюка." - Невідомий українець

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    All these are Romanian obr. 1891. Romania kept them well into the 50s when no other country in the world had them - see photo below.

    Bulgaria disposed of their obr. 1891 before WWII (sold to Finland), so did Serbia; Turkish obr. 1891 are easily recognizable. These are the Balkan countries that had obr. 1891. Greece never had them. Albania was created too late to have any of those.
    So, did the Romanians use these obsolete old warhorses fighting the Russians, or is the timing wrong?
    Aut Pax Aut Bellum

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    I watched a video online a while back showing Romanian troops in formation being inspected by a German officer. I think it was on the Eastern front but could be wrong. In any case they all had m91s.

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