Old Western Scrounger 1903a4 Scope?
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Thread: Old Western Scrounger 1903a4 Scope?

  1. #1
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    Default Old Western Scrounger 1903a4 Scope?

    I'm looking for a scope for a 1903a4 build that I'm putting together from a 1903a3 receiver, a new barrel, and various 1903a3 and 1903a4 parts. I ran across this scope on the Old Western Scrounger site on sale for $200: http://www.ows-ammo.com/store/index....oducts_id=1298

    Wondering if anyone is familiar with this scope or used one? The box says "Sun Optics USA". The Hi Lux repros are around $350, and the real M73s are way more than I want to spend for this project.

    What do you guys think?

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    you can just about bet your socks at that price its made in china. i went that route with a old time 3x repo target scope from china and it was a POS, just my two cents. eastbank.Attachment 2030522

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    Yea I'm sure this is a repo Chinese scope, like the ones Hi-Lux made for the Gibbs rifles, etc.. Many people seem to be pretty happy with the newer models of these Chinese scopes on their 1903a4 clones, but this one from OWS, I've never seen before.

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    OWS is owned and operated by Val Forget XX, who is also Navy Arms selling reproduction M1903A4 sniper rifles. As I remember the reproduction scopes had poor reviews as the location of the adjustment knobs were reversed.

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    if you drive on the left hand side of the road, that may explain the mix up. eastbank.

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    Quote Originally Posted by breakeyp View Post
    OWS is owned and operated by Val Forget XX, who is also Navy Arms selling reproduction M1903A4 sniper rifles. As I remember the reproduction scopes had poor reviews as the location of the adjustment knobs were reversed.
    Thanks. That is what I'm looking for.

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    T

    Call and ask if this is the G2 or G4 Model . If the G4 its the current scope being put on these by Rock Ridge who makes these rifles for Gibbs , St James Armory and Creedmore. If its the G2 your cross hairs cover bull at 300 yds and make it tough to shoot . The G4 is a decent scope but its the replica soda straw WWII type optic but it works well. Field of view is small ! That is why I sold mine and got a Lyman Alaskan WWII era original scope with same anemic 2.5 x optic but far larger field of view...easier to shoot for my eyes.

    Call Val Forget at old western scrounger..aka Gibbs Rifle Company / one time Navy Arms. Ask if G4..he will tell you and if its the first gen scopes with backwards adjustments, he'll tell you that too. He won't pull a punch on you.

    If you get on CMP forums guys there who use K Model Weaver scopes will tell you which model is legal in CMP matches. Redfield bases and mounts are not a issue to find..civilian blued steel .

    Lots of fantasy scopes on "vintage sniper rifles " at Camp Perry . That match has really become the scoped surplus rifle match.

    If you get your A4 replca built and need a killer 175 gr BTHP load, email me. My load goes 100 to 1000 yds in my Gibbs A4. ... I got a real good one too, so accurate and well made.
    Last edited by milprileb; 03-10-2017 at 05:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    T

    Call and ask if this is the G2 or G4 Model . If the G4 its the current scope being put on these by Rock Ridge who makes these rifles for Gibbs , St James Armory and Creedmore. If its the G2 your cross hairs cover bull at 300 yds and make it tough to shoot . The G4 is a decent scope but its the replica soda straw WWII type optic but it works well. Field of view is small ! That is why I sold mine and got a Lyman Alaskan WWII era original scope with same anemic 2.5 x optic but far larger field of view...easier to shoot for my eyes.

    Call Val Forget at old western scrounger..aka Gibbs Rifle Company / one time Navy Arms. Ask if G4..he will tell you and if its the first gen scopes with backwards adjustments, he'll tell you that too. He won't pull a punch on you.

    If you get on CMP forums guys there who use K Model Weaver scopes will tell you which model is legal in CMP matches. Redfield bases and mounts are not a issue to find..civilian blued steel .

    Lots of fantasy scopes on "vintage sniper rifles " at Camp Perry . That match has really become the scoped surplus rifle match.

    If you get your A4 replca built and need a killer 175 gr BTHP load, email me. My load goes 100 to 1000 yds in my Gibbs A4. ... I got a real good one too, so accurate and well made.
    Thanks for the info. He has these scopes also listed on GunBroker, and I sent an email asking if this was the M73G4 or not.

    I know that the Weaver K2.5 scope is legal for the CMP, but I don't think they look as good as the original type of scopes.

    I would like to get your load data. I've got another SC 1903a3 that has a Lyman 57 rear sight and that gun is very accurate with my 168 gr handloads. I'm always looking for improvements to my reloads. I've never tried a 175 g bullet.

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    If you want a CMP acceptable rifle, use the best scope they allow. You can also use a repro Unerly 8X and statistically do better. The G4 is the best of the repro A4 scopes so far. An original Alaskan or Weaver may serve you better. I have a hang up about the M84 type scopes being used but they. and their clones are an option. You have many options. Do lots of homework.









    t

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike radford View Post
    If you want a CMP acceptable rifle, use the best scope they allow. You can also use a repro Unerly 8X and statistically do better. The G4 is the best of the repro A4 scopes so far. An original Alaskan or Weaver may serve you better. I have a hang up about the M84 type scopes being used but they. and their clones are an option. You have many options. Do lots of homework.

    According to the CMP rules, the only 2 non-issue scopes allowed on a 1903a4 are the Weaver K2.5 and the Lyman Alaskan. The Unertl 8X scope is limited to the 1941A1 rifle, which may be my next project, but even the Unertl clones are north of $500. I guess I could go with a M84 clone. Thanks for the help.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest T View Post
    According to the CMP rules, the only 2 non-issue scopes allowed on a 1903a4 are the Weaver K2.5 and the Lyman Alaskan. The Unertl 8X scope is limited to the 1941A1 rifle, which may be my next project, but even the Unertl clones are north of $500. I guess I could go with a M84 clone. Thanks for the help.
    THose Weaver K2.5 still are better optics, better glass than the issue or replica issue scope and give that shooter an advantage. Guess it don't matter, at least CMP held the line...it won't let a Zeiss 2.5 power be used ...not this year .

    If the winner at Camp Perry uses a non standard scope : Its the scoped surplus rifle match. Forget this noise about "Vintage Sniper Match".

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest T View Post
    According to the CMP rules, the only 2 non-issue scopes allowed on a 1903a4 are the Weaver K2.5 and the Lyman Alaskan. The Unertl 8X scope is limited to the 1941A1 rifle, which may be my next project, but even the Unertl clones are north of $500. I guess I could go with a M84 clone. Thanks for the help.
    What I said remains accurate. A replica sniper is a replica sniper. Why not use the most successful one, the 8x Unertl clones.

    If you must use the A4 types, the G-4 and G-2 Chinese clones are OK with CMP, the G-4 copy being the better and more recent and both are copies of the M73b1 originally on the A4s. There are also Chinese copies of the M-82 Alaskan which are acceptable to CMP. The M-84 was used on the A4s later. That was US Army use. There are also clones of the M-84 and they are used on the M1d and A4s. I am not sure that CMP allows them on the 03 type rifles but as I said the best option to win is the Unertl clones and every other scope mentioned will come up short statistically in CMP vintage sniper matches. That is why I said "use the best scope acceptable" if you want to win or make the best sniper built on an 1903A3 receiver.

    If you are building, why build the less successful. Look through a few of these scopes an you will see what I am saying pretty fast. If you look at the CMP matches, you will see what everyone is using.

    I have shot two 03s with 7.8X Unertls and one with the repro Unertl. The repro Unertls will need some work on the bases and rings and the CMP shooters know the details. Mine walked off the bases after about 8 shots. I know they worked on that issue. My scope was one of the first. I am pretty sure any 8X or less period Unertl can also be used. I have a 6x that does really well.

    A PU can run with them. Ask Skip. You do not need to build them. From my limited testing I could do as well or better with a PU than an A4 with M73b1, its clones, or an Alaskan M82, etc.. The 330/M73b1 is a scope I use poorly and I have used several and some clones and maybe a bit better with the Alaskans/M81/82 types. Of course having used 30-40 PUs, that could bias my experience.
    Last edited by mike radford; 03-11-2017 at 08:40 PM.

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    i like the weaver 2.5x scopes and have several of them and have clicks that are pretty good, other than only 2.5x. i also have several unertl target scopes and thats what i would use if winning was all important to me. one thing for sure if you buy a good unertl you will be able to sell it any day of the week, where as the clones will never be any thing but poor copies.i had nothing but trouble with a malcom 3x i tried on a CD little sharps and took a loss when i sold it. believe it or not i could shoot better groups with the original tang sight than i could shoot with the malcom 3x, with the unertl groups a 100yards were 2-3 inches. eastbank.Attachment 2036866

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