Chaffetz Subpoenas ATF Agents Involved in Obama’s Fast and Furious Op
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Thread: Chaffetz Subpoenas ATF Agents Involved in Obama’s Fast and Furious Op

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    Default Chaffetz Subpoenas ATF Agents Involved in Obama’s Fast and Furious Op

    "The hearing marks the first effort by Congress to re-open the investigation into President Obama’s Fast and Furious gun trafficking scheme since he left office in January."

    Klik on this link to read the complete article:

    http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2017/...st-furious-op/
    THOMAS SOWELL: "freedom is seldom lost all at once. It is usually eroded away, bit by bit, until it is all gone. You may not notice a gradual erosion while it is going on, but you may eventually be shocked to discover one day that it is all gone, that we have been reduced from citizens to subjects, and the Constitution has become just a meaningless bunch of paper."

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    Long over due but definitely a step in the right direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moosedog View Post
    Long over due but definitely a step in the right direction.
    Yes... Hopefully it is a signal that Trump and Sessions will investigate and file charges...

    Remember the "Watergate' question for Nixon... What did Nixon know and when did he know it?

    obama and holder should be asked that same question re: "fast and furious".
    THOMAS SOWELL: "freedom is seldom lost all at once. It is usually eroded away, bit by bit, until it is all gone. You may not notice a gradual erosion while it is going on, but you may eventually be shocked to discover one day that it is all gone, that we have been reduced from citizens to subjects, and the Constitution has become just a meaningless bunch of paper."

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    [QUOTE=tojak;6436442]Yes... Hopefully it is a signal that Trump and Sessions will investigate and file charges...

    Remember the "Watergate' question for Nixon... What did Nixon know and when did he know it?

    obama and holder should be asked that same question re: "fast and furious".[/QUOTE]

    Indeed. Under oath and in public. Let them take the Fifth and see how THAT adds to their "legacy".
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    I'm all for it as soon as he gets done extracting Putin's fist from golden boys rear end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    I'm all for it as soon as he gets done extracting Putin's fist from golden boys rear end.
    Yeah, considering all the "flexibility" after Obama's re-election like selling 20% of our uranium, doing nothing when the Russians invaded the Crimea, and nothing when Putin conducted ops in Syria. Lets not forget that Russian Ambassador Sergey Krislyak visited the White House 22 time between 2009 and 2016. Yeah, I'm all for your boy, Obama getting what he deserves.
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    Bout dam time

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    We do need to know that questional/illegal things were done under fast and furious. They released about 2K semi autos to known illegal buyers and told dealers to violate federal laws and sale them to straw buyers. They had no such legal authority. It is fine to put guns in the flow of commerence illegally with no legal culpability, just allow gun illlegal tranfers? Many folks were killed by these illegally sold by BATFE in Mexico and and the US.

    Now Eric has a Law firm getting rich and needs to find his place in jail IMO. Even C&R holders near the border were targeted, with no evidence, and were told they needed to do 4473s and many other things that were incorrect legally. Somehow this is fine?? The BATFE had no clue. They come to your home and tell you your 03 is going away, or you may go to jail, or your guns are done/gone, and you are wrong, what are you gonna do. Do you want to argue with an agent who holds your license and guns in their hands? Many said yes sir or mam.

    Members here were so harassed, in an illegal manner, just because they lived near the border.

    Chaz, you need to wake up to what is happening with gun rights and get over your political bias. Obama was out for our guns, Trump wants to protect our gun rights. Love Obummer and whomever you like but if you care about your guns you need to do some homework and support pro-gun politician like Trump or you will not have your guns.

    You are on a pro-gun site. It would be nice if you supported our gun rights. JMO.
    Last edited by mike radford; 03-10-2017 at 11:32 PM.

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    Not sure where you get your news but if Putin's influence over our president is not top priority, then you my friend have been duped.
    Hate the last guy till you turn blue in the face but this is now and the past is hard to change.
    Changing the future however is possible so in between bouts of rage over past crimes (and what administration has clean hands after all) it might be prudent to pay attention to what is happening right in front of your eyes.
    I am not now nor have ever been a commie, and I Pray to God that remains a true statement.

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    Let's just hope these agents don't accidentally commit suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head before they can testify.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    Not sure where you get your news but if Putin's influence over our president is not top priority, then you my friend have been duped.
    Hate the last guy till you turn blue in the face but this is now and the past is hard to change.
    Changing the future however is possible so in between bouts of rage over past crimes (and what administration has clean hands after all) it might be prudent to pay attention to what is happening right in front of your eyes.
    I am not now nor have ever been a commie, and I Pray to God that remains a true statement.
    Take a look at the facts Chas. Democratic/Obama Admin contacts with Putin and Russia outnumber Republican ones by maybe 5 to 1, as you'd expect with the party in the White House and State Dept.
    It's all part of the dancing around, screaming and shouting political attempt to delegitimize Trump, can't work because its based on complete fabrications and is, outside of the mainstream news, failing miserably.
    Once the economic recovery sinks in the BS will die down, the Democrats will scramble to make compromises with Trump while hiding it from their Snowflake followers and you'll be left alone to wallow in despair with your fellow Anarchists.

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    smile Support potus!!

    "Fast and Furious" is just the tip of an enormous iceberg of corruption! The DoeDoes out there who have their collective butts up their collective Arses, continue to listen to the paid lair Talking Heads and buy into the BULL-HIT that Trump is the problem! Such DoeDoes are incurable dolts. For the rest of you, the ones that are at least willing to try and look beyond the HYPER B-S, here is what is really going on in the D.C. rat infested swamp: The Lunatic Left which controls virtually all the media, DO NOT want their cesspool drained and are resisting POTUS in every possible way! The LIES that the Russians somehow corrupted the US election. Trump team some how conspired with the Russians. Flynn's resignation. Trump "foolishly" accused OhBummer! of wire tapping and so forth are MISINFORMATION from the SPINMEISTERS!
    These are the FACTS: (1.) OhBummer's toadies obtained a warrant to wiretap Trump Tower. (2.) This wiretap warrant was obtained because some paid LIAR swore that there was a unlawful Trump/Putin connection. (3.) Flynn was forced to resign because of this wiretap. Not for wrongdoing, but for misinforming the VP. (4.) The recent Wikileaks' CIA dump shows that the CIA can leave the "fingerprints", so to speak, of ANYONE OR ANY NATION THAT THEY CHOOSE, on a computer hacking job. WHAT THIS MEANS IS THAT THE OhBummer/Clinton Dumbo-cRATS are LIKELY the cause of this entire mess from the start!!!!
    Last edited by shooterike; 03-11-2017 at 11:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    Not sure where you get your news but if Putin's influence over our president is not top priority, then you my friend have been duped.
    You want to know where I get my news, Here it is:

    Full Clapper: 'No Evidence' of Collusion Between Trump and Russia
    SUN, MAR 05
    http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-pres...a-890509379597

    'No evidence' Trump campaign aides recruited by Russia, former spy chief says
    By BRIAN ROSS JAMES GORDON MEEK MATTHEW MOSK
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/top-s...ry?id=46013305

    Clapper: No Evidence Russians Changed Votes in Presidential Election, But They Tried to Interfere With Propaganda
    Katie Pavlich Katie Pavlich |Posted: Jan 05, 2017 12:00 PM
    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiep...ction-n2267531

    Democratic Sen. Chris Coons: No ‘hard evidence of collusion’ between Trump camp, Russia
    POSTED AT 1:01 PM ON MARCH 6, 2017 BY JOHN SEXTON


    http://hotair.com/archives/2017/03/0...p-camp-russia/

    It seems, you, I'm-not-your-friend, have been duped. Or, maybe, the folks you get your liberal talking points from, didn't send you a memo...


    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    Hate the last guy till you turn blue in the face but this is now and the past is hard to change.
    It IS hard to change. But comparison of verifiable facts of Obama and Russian collusion vs the lies and innuendo against trump is simply amazing.

    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    Changing the future however is possible so in between bouts of rage over past crimes (and what administration has clean hands after all)
    Nice try at justification.

    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    t might be prudent to pay attention to what is happening right in front of your eyes.
    Yeah pay attention to the blatant bias, innuendo and outright lies from the media WITH NO EVIDENCE!

    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    I am not now nor have ever been a commie, and I Pray to God that remains a true statement.
    Guilty conscience? Who said you were/are? I've learned that if one has to deny being something, they probably are.
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    Personally I'm sick of listening to the Russian narrative. We've been dancing with Russia since 1946 and we'll be dancing with them til the end of time. We don't want their country and they don't want ours. It would of happened already.
    The government forcing dealers to sell firearms illegally to known criminals and then losing said firearms concerns me deeply. It reeks of ulterior motives, and troubles me much more then the Russians.

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    You have to excuse chasdev. He lives in Austin,the most liberal city in Texas. Unfortunately he has drunk the Kool-Aide and has been changed forever.
    My idea of border control is m-60 machineguns every 100yds with interlocking fields of fire.

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    The left pushes the agenda that Russia "hacked" and meddled with our elections but had absolutely no problem with Obama interfering with the Israeli elections. Or with the US interfering and trying to influence elections of other countries all over the world.
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    Default KINDS OF LIES or TALKING HEAD WHOPPERS!

    My Amish grandmother was an expert on recognizing whoppers. She classified lies into 3 broad categories:
    1. Lie of COMISSION - An outright lie. No truth to it, so it is the easiest to detect.
    2. Lie of OMISSION - A very dangerous LIE, because what is said may be TRUE, but important information has been left out!
    3. Lie of INFERENCE - A very dangerous LIE, because what is said may be TRUE, but is not germane to the subject.

    An example of the lie of COMISSION: "The Russians hacked the US presidential election." What makes this a lie is that there is NO PROOF that the Russians could or even tried to change the vote totals, interfere with voting machines or in fact did anything to show preference for either candidate. All there is to back this whopper up is the Clinton allegation that there was/is some sort of collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians. On the other hand, there is sufficient reason to believe that if the Russians had a preference, it would have been for the Hildabitch because her "foundation" had accepted lots of Russian money and she/it (?) had sold a lot of US nuclear material to the Russians. Wonder why the idiots who are blaming POTUS Trump for everything have forgotten about that? Could it be that the FAKE news media is WHOPPERING?

    An example of a lie of OMISSION: "POTUS Trump accused O'Bummer of wire tapping.." What makes this a lie is that important information is left out. Unsaid is the fact that when the Hildabitch told the lie "that there was collusion between Trump and the Russians.." O'Bummer had the FBI and CIA "investigate" which was widely reported in newspapers and the FAKE news media. All POTUS Trump did was tweet about what had been reported in the newspapers and other sources. EVERY TIME that important information has been left out in a recounting of Trump's tweet, means that you have been LIED to by the FAKE news media!

    An example of a lie of INFERENCE: "Millions of people will loose heath care coverage if Trump repeals O'Bummercare." Very true and often used by the Looney Left as a reason to keep O"Bummercare. They use it as "proof" to INFER that POTUS Trump does not care about "old people", "sick people", "children", "the poor", "minorities" and any other group that the FAKE news media wishes to get support from. What makes this a LIE is that by far, most of the people who will loose "O'Bummercare coverage are the ones least likely to need it - the YOUNG! And they only loose health insurance, if they choose not to buy it. O'Bummercare robbed the young by forcing them to buy extremely expensive health insurance they did not need, which covered medical conditions they were unlikely to have for many years. That is why the Lie of inference is Satan's proudest invention!
    Last edited by shooterike; 03-20-2017 at 03:21 PM.

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    I usually "follow the money trail", which is like Hansel and Gretel leaving a trail of crumbs for the hunters to follow...
    Hillary Clinton received a commission of $1.45 million from Russia, for selling them one-fifth of all American Uranium, which is now going into Iran's nuclear warheads. More recently, it has become knowledge for the common man, that a close Hillary Clinton Aide collected $45 million more, that went into the Clinton "foundation", a well known money laundering scheme, for foreign interests to influence American Democrat politics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooterike View Post
    ... there is no proof that the Russians could or even tried to change the vote totals, interfere with voting machines or in fact did anything to show preference for either candidate.
    That goes counter to what the head of the FBI and the head of the NSA just testified before congress. How did you out-sleuth those guys?
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    That goes counter to what the head of the FBI and the head of the NSA just testified before congress. How did you out-sleuth those guys?
    I was listening to their testimony today, that is EXACTLY what they testified to, that there is zero evidence found anywhere, that any vote totals were changed, in particular "battleground" states, or in any other states.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldstuffer View Post
    I was listening to their testimony today, that is EXACTLY what they testified to, that there is zero evidence found anywhere, that any vote totals were changed, in particular "battleground" states, or in any other states.
    If you actually listened to today's testimony, and came away thinking that the head of the FBI and the head of the NSA did not actually, in deed, say the Russians tried to influence the election in favor of Trump, I can't imagine what to say to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    That goes counter to what the head of the FBI and the head of the NSA just testified before congress. How did you out-sleuth those guys?
    So you're saying that the the FBI and NSA said there's proof Russians tried to change votes, interfere with voting machines and show preference please explain this testimony.

    Last edited by unbekannt; 03-21-2017 at 01:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    If you actually listened to today's testimony, and came away thinking that the head of the FBI and the head of the NSA did not actually, in deed, say the Russians tried to influence the election in favor of Trump, I can't imagine what to say to you.
    You do not seem to understand that attempting to interfere in an election is not the same as changing the votes or the outcome of the election. That was one question today. Furthermore, it was again confirmed that after eight months of investigations, no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign has been found, none. Trying to interfere is failure and does not really matter. Doing with influence is success, which did not happen. All that happened was a few Russians, or Ukrainians, hacked the DNC and Podesta's(due to his own stupidity) emails and showed what scum that the Democrarts are. Few partisans cared one way or the other and voted accordingly, as they would regardless. Other things revealed cost two DNC directors their jobs and/or positions, and they should have had much worse. Donna had to leave CNN and finally admitted her conspiracy with Hillary. The media was caught trying to influence our elections, wow, image that. W-S continues as a Congressperson, after Hillary kept her employed during the election, but has been shown to be scum and resigned as DNC chair.

    They have proven squat on Trump and his connection with the Russians. They have shown somebody has illegally revealed the identity of a US citizen having a lawful conversation with an Ambassador. That is the ONLY crime we know of.

    I think you need to listen with a critical ear and a legal mind, not with a partisan tilted predetermined conclusion. JMO.

    Every country tries to influence the other countries elections to their gain. Obummer spent 250K trying to interfere in Israel's election but BB won anyway. Why were we trying to interfere in their elections? Why did we spy on Angelia's cell phone? Every country tries to stick their nose in every other countries elections and affairs.

    Additionally, it is was confirmed that the only crime identified so far was the felonious release of Citizen Flynn's identity, while lawfully speaking with the Russian Ambassador, was unlawfully revealed to the NYT, quite possibly by some kind of surveillance like "wire tapping". Then there is the issue of the media unlawfully getting Trump's conversations with Mexico's and Australia's heads of state illegally, against national security, in near real time. Is it really a good thing that the President can not talk to a foreign leader in a conversation that is supposed to be confidential but the media publishes it in near real time? These are bigger problems than this intentional distraction from real issues like the essential confirmation of a constructionist to the Supreme Court which will help assure our gun rights unlike HRC and the dumbocrocks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    If you actually listened to today's testimony, and came away thinking that the head of the FBI and the head of the NSA did not actually, in deed, say the Russians tried to influence the election in favor of Trump, I can't imagine what to say to you.
    Nice job of changing what I said, AND changing what YOU claimed.
    . there is no proof that the Russians could or even tried to change the vote totals, interfere with voting machines or in fact did anything to show preference for either candidate.
    That goes counter to what the head of the FBI and the head of the NSA just testified before congress.
    That does in fact NOT "go counter" to their testimony.
    there is zero evidence found anywhere, that any vote totals were changed, in particular "battleground" states, or in any other states.
    "Attempting to interfere"............................

    So,,, publishing what people have said and done is somehow "interfering"?????

    If it is, then is was, at one time (long past) the JOB of the press in this country to "interfere" with elections.

    in fact did anything to show preference for either candidate.
    No...... That is quite obviously the job of the press today (for the last 30 years or so).


    IF 'those dastardly Russians' actually "DID" anything, it was an effort to educate the American Voter on the graft and corruption of both Hitlery Clintoon AND the National Demoncrap Party itself.

    So,, an American can publish a book documenting both CLintoon's shady dealings, graft, and corruption, and this isn't "interfering", but if some foreign national someplace else published the same book,, THAT would be a crime????
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    My take on the whole episode, once you back away from the largely illusory "details", most of which are just accusations based on vague suppositions and unrelated events, is that it was a Russian attempt to discredit our electoral system and weaken the expected next President, Hillary Clinton.

    Outside of Trump's core operation where they had good polling in the critical states, and his more delusional followers, NOBODY thought he'd win. You can conclude that the Russians thought Hillary would be President and that the emails, leaks and her personality and demonstrated lack of competence and judgement would mean she'd spend most of her time on patching up political problems with the Progressives and give them free reign in Europe and the Middle East. The emails especially were time bomb, revealing a Democratic establishment campaign by Hillary supporters to wreck Sander's chances at the nomination and she would have had to deal with their anger, an anger now being directed at Trump.

    The Democrats are portraying Trump as being bad for the NATO alliance but he's the one encouraging them to spend more on defense and be more aggressive. Combine that with his proposed military buildup and an abandonment of "soft power" and you get much bigger problems for Russia than an entitlements expenditure and politics playing Hillary administration that would continue the limp wristed Obama foreign policy.
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    As best I can tell, the Russian Beasts did what intelligence services do - gained as much information as they could, by open and clandestine methods. And then used what they found to advance what they deemed their national interests to be. I have seen nothing indicating there was any engagement with the Trump (or Hitlery) campaign staff. It does appear the Russkis did NOT want Hitlery to be elected, and tried to influence the outcome by targeted release of information.

    Must say - I didn't want her elected either, and if I had been in possession of harmful information, I'd have released it, too.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike radford View Post
    You do not seem to understand that attempting to interfere in an election is not the same as changing the votes or the outcome of the election.
    Sorry for not reading your whole post Mike. When your first sentence misses the mark so wildly I lose interest.
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    Oldstuffer, you wrote: " ... there is no proof that the Russians could or even tried to change the vote totals, interfere with voting machines or in fact did anything to show preference for either candidate."

    I didn't say Russians tried to interfere with vote counts. I have only reported that the FBI, NSA, and DoJ have all said that the Russians interfered with the election narrative in a manner to benefit Trump and discredit Clinton (such as timed release of Clinton emails). But you wrote they did nothing to show preference to either candidate. So I suggest you need to forward your analyses to these agencies.

    Folks, all I did was report what was said in the Senate hearings by these agencies. I don't think I know more than our intelligence services. But if you guys have facts that show a different assessment, gleaned through your superior sources, step up, go public, and help your country end this mess.

    I don't care if we do it, the press does it, etc etc. I'm not in favor of foreign interference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    Sorry for not reading your whole post Mike. When your first sentence misses the mark so wildly I lose interest.
    There have been a lot of studies that show two people look at the same thing and what they see is totally different, like witnesses on site. I watched the majority of the proceedings and saw something totally different than you saw. Seeing what you saw is impossible for me, it just was not there. You are the one who wildly missed the mark IMO and your mind is closed, thus you did not read my whole post.

    The important conclusions and testimony give us the meat of the investigation and what we know so far. Ignoring those is your decision, not mine.

    Every country tires to influence each other's elections and affairs to their advantage, it is just reality.

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    what I find incredibly asinine about the entire "e-mail hacking" bit (whether the Russians did it or not,, those naming The Russians are "unidentified sources" which these days equates to Made Up Crap) is the people all steamed over the 'hacks' (and yes, Podesta was idiot enough to hand his passwords over to a Phisher, he wasn't "hacked"), yet all the while those same people clearly have no heartburn whatsoever over the CONTENT of those e-mails.

    The DNC conspiring actively with the Clinton campaign to deny Sanders an honest primary challenge
    The DNC conspiring actively with the Clinton campaign to send activists to Trump rallies for the express purpose of getting into fights, so as to show how violent Trumpers are
    The DNC conspiring to create false Trump information and release with Reuters.
    The
    DNC discussing their relationship with NBC/MSNBC/CNN and how to get better treatment.
    The DNC offering to send interns out to fake a protest against the RNC
    Possible money laundering by moving money back and forth to bypass legal limits.
    DNC feeding CNN the questions they want to be asked in interviews.
    Creating a fake job ad for a Trump business to paint him as a sexist.
    BuzzFeed and DNC connection.
    Press talking points, states Hillary is their candidate, dated May 5, 2016.
    The Washington Post hosts DNC fundraisers.
    And more and more and more.

    Oh nooooooooooooooooooooooo.......................... Ignore all that corruption and illegality, "It's The Russians!!!!"
    "It's The Russians!!!!""It's The Russians!!!!""It's The Russians!!!!""It's The Russians!!!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    Oldstuffer, you wrote: " ... there is no proof that the Russians could or even tried to change the vote totals, interfere with voting machines or in fact did anything to show preference for either candidate."

    I didn't say Russians tried to interfere with vote counts. I have only reported that the FBI, NSA, and DoJ have all said that the Russians interfered with the election narrative in a manner to benefit Trump and discredit Clinton (such as timed release of Clinton emails).
    When questioned on it the intelligence agency witnesses said they had no evidence for Russian support of Clinton except that it was a "logical inference." The shared opinion was that the real Russian goal was to discredit the US election system and the incoming Administration. And it has done so!

    My own logical inference is that the Russians believed that Hillary would win and thus concentrated on her and dumped as much damaging email data on her as they could find. They were helped in this by the extraordinarily weak DNC and Clinton State Dept email security and the much stronger RNC security that prevented them from getting anything useful on Trump or the other Republicans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjk308 View Post
    When questioned on it the intelligence agency witnesses said they had no evidence for Russian support of Clinton except that it was a "logical inference." The shared opinion was that the real Russian goal was to discredit the US election system and the incoming Administration. And it has done so!

    My own logical inference is that the Russians believed that Hillary would win and thus concentrated on her and dumped as much damaging email data on her as they could find. They were helped in this by the extraordinarily weak DNC and Clinton State Dept email security and the much stronger RNC security that prevented them from getting anything useful on Trump or the other Republicans.
    What is really going on is that the FAKE news media is striving mightily to (1)Discredit any way possible POTUS Trump with enormous LIES! (2)Cover up its' own biased stupidity in giving all out support for the Hildabitch. (3)Prevent a US - Russia alliance because that would go far cleaning up the mess the Looney Left has made of the world. In other words, me and you by voting, had more influence in the US elections than "RUSSIA" did! It is all Lies, Smoke and Mirrors!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjk308 View Post
    My own logical inference is that the Russians believed that Hillary would win and thus concentrated on her and dumped as much damaging email data on her as they could find. They were helped in this by the extraordinarily weak DNC and Clinton State Dept email security and the much stronger RNC security that prevented them from getting anything useful on Trump or the other Republicans.
    The OTHER, more logical, interpretation on this is that they DID also get into the Republican computers (I find this likely) and found absolutely nothing 'juicy' to report.

    It's like they say. If you play it straight and always tell the truth (a phrase far more applicable to Republicans than to nearly any Democrat since maybe Carter), nobody can hold your lies over your head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronbo6 View Post
    The OTHER, more logical, interpretation on this is that they DID also get into the Republican computers (I find this likely) and found absolutely nothing 'juicy' to report.

    It's like they say. If you play it straight and always tell the truth (a phrase far more applicable to Republicans than to nearly any Democrat since maybe Carter), nobody can hold your lies over your head.
    Whether or not you choose to believe the RNC and FBI, the reports months ago were either (memory iffy) 3 or 5 separate and UN-successful attempts to hack into the RNC's systems.
    It (hacking the computers) was tried, without the success they had at the DNC,, whomever it was.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike radford View Post
    There have been a lot of studies that show two people look at the same thing and what they see is totally different, like witnesses on site. I watched the majority of the proceedings and saw something totally different than you saw. Seeing what you saw is impossible for me, it just was not there. You are the one who wildly missed the mark IMO and your mind is closed, thus you did not read my whole post.

    The important conclusions and testimony give us the meat of the investigation and what we know so far. Ignoring those is your decision, not mine.

    Every country tires to influence each other's elections and affairs to their advantage, it is just reality.
    Mike, sorry if I am beating a dead horse, but you say that you saw something totally different than what I saw. Comey said the Russians interfered with the election to favor Trump. He said that. He didn't say whether they were effective in doing that; and he later wrote that it wasn't the FBI's job to analyze the success of the Russian methods. Here's one Comey quote from the hearing:

    "I think that was a fairly easy judgment for the (intelligence) community," he said. "Putin hated Secretary Clinton so much that the flip side of that coin was he had a clear preference for the person running against the person he hated so much."

    I wrote above only to report that. How did I "wildly miss the mark", have a "closed mind", and I am "ignoring facts"? Comey said what he said. Facts are easier to support than feelings.
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    Mike, sorry if I am beating a dead horse, but you say that you saw something totally different than what I saw. Comey said the Russians interfered with the election to favor Trump. He said that. He didn't say whether they were effective in doing that; and he later wrote that it wasn't the FBI's job to analyze the success of the Russian methods. Here's one Comey quote from the hearing:

    "I think that was a fairly easy judgment for the (intelligence) community," he said. "Putin hated Secretary Clinton so much that the flip side of that coin was he had a clear preference for the person running against the person he hated so much."

    I wrote above only to report that. How did I "wildly miss the mark", have a "closed mind", and I am "ignoring facts"? Comey said what he said. Facts are easier to support than feelings.
    NO! You are wrong! Comey actually said "They were investigating Russian interference in the election." That quote of Comey's proves that you are CLOSED MIND enough to think that it "proves" that "Putin hated Secretary Clinton so much.. that he had a preference for Trump... is PROOF ONLY OF YOUR STUPIDITY! Look at that quote carefully.. It is not proof -- it is an OPINION! It is not even a "Russian" opinion (The Russians have stated numerous times that they didn't care who won.) it is Comey's "community" (DumocRATS? Comey did not say the word "intelligence". Some spinmeister inserted it.) opinion. You really need to figure out that you are being lied to!

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Bender View Post
    Mike, sorry if I am beating a dead horse, but you say that you saw something totally different than what I saw. Comey said the Russians interfered with the election to favor Trump. He said that. He didn't say whether they were effective in doing that; and he later wrote that it wasn't the FBI's job to analyze the success of the Russian methods. Here's one Comey quote from the hearing:

    "I think that was a fairly easy judgment for the (intelligence) community," he said. "Putin hated Secretary Clinton so much that the flip side of that coin was he had a clear preference for the person running against the person he hated so much."

    I wrote above only to report that. How did I "wildly miss the mark", have a "closed mind", and I am "ignoring facts"? Comey said what he said. Facts are easier to support than feelings.
    I stated the important conclusions from the session. The facts you state are meaningless. Only one crime was acknowledged.

    Russia stuck their nose in the election, as they always do and as we do to other countries, but it had no real effect. Russia changed no votes and they did not attempt to change votes at the poles or interfere with voting equipment. Russia did not influence the election. There is no proof that the Trump champagne conspired with the Russian to influence the election. They have been looking for 9 months and all agree, Comey, Clapper, Brennen, Morell, no evidence at all.

    The only crime, a felony, anyone committed was someone released the name of a US citizen, Flynn, who was taking to the Russian ambassador. Apparently tapping the Russian ambassador, or other foreigners, consequently had listened to US citizens lawfully talking to folks being watched in other countries. Their names and the content regarding US citizens being released are both felonies. Flynn's name was released, definitely, and a crime.

    If Comey said Russia interfered to help Trump, many experts disagree and it is an opinion, not a verifiable fact.

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    Un asked, to this point, in so far as I have seen, is WHAT interference or manipulation the Russians could have had on the election? The machines in Michigan and Pennsylvania were not connected to the internet. Could not be hacked.

    All of this "Russian" noise is just a distraction and attempt to hobble the President.
    And little reported today was the fact that surveillance of the Trump team DID in fact happen.

    And guess what....the subpoenaed ATF guys will take the fifth. Just you wait and see.
    And we didn't blow up, so we got that going for us. Which is nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldstuffer View Post
    Whether or not you choose to believe the RNC and FBI, the reports months ago were either (memory iffy) 3 or 5 separate and UN-successful attempts to hack into the RNC's systems.
    It (hacking the computers) was tried, without the success they had at the DNC,, whomever it was.
    One of the3 "hacks" was a successful "phishing" lure. The email claimed to be from a staffer on a trip, stranded after losing his wallet. They clicked on the return and let the hackers into the DNC system.

    Another suspicious email was questioned by a DNC staffer who alerted an FBI unit, but there wasn't a response for weeks!

    The RNC system had much better security and the only accounts penetrated were very old ones on a system they'd dropped some time before.

    As for the rest of this BS with the Manafort "documents" found in his old office in Ukraine and the AP report, also supposedly based on documents, I'm beginning to wonder if the Russian operation to discredit the US election system and the incoming Administration is still in action. Ever since the Czarist secret police produced "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" Russia has been notorious for forged documentation and the KGB had a section that did nothing else.
    211 BC: I swear by Jupiter Optimus Maximus .... in the army of the consul Gnaeus Fulvius Centumalus Maximus and for 10 miles around it I will not steal anything worth more than a denarius in any one day.

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    The sky is blue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldstuffer View Post
    Whether or not you choose to believe the RNC and FBI, the reports months ago were either (memory iffy) 3 or 5 separate and UN-successful attempts to hack into the RNC's systems.
    It (hacking the computers) was tried, without the success they had at the DNC,, whomever it was.
    The ones they know about, anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronbo6 View Post
    The ones they know about, anyway.
    That's according to the FBI. I rate as an IT professional, having supervised the installation of a network and managed it at NAVAIR, and in my not so humble opinion the Democrats were incredibly inept. All of them, from Hillary at State and in the campaign down to the DNC goober who clicked on that phishing email.

    The RNC wasn't unusually brilliant, just average, except for failing to completely clean up their files on an old system*. But since those files didn't cover the election years they were, probably, so boring Wikileaks wasn't interested.

    * I've found that disassembling the drive and using a sledge hammer to pulverize the discs works very well.
    211 BC: I swear by Jupiter Optimus Maximus .... in the army of the consul Gnaeus Fulvius Centumalus Maximus and for 10 miles around it I will not steal anything worth more than a denarius in any one day.

    2016 AD: To enhance our community's aggregate through multi-platform metrics of media synergy catalyzing integrated outcomes of macro-disciplines toward inclusive methodology paradigms generating positive algorithms of unwavering commitment to our children, the flag, and God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjk308 View Post
    the Democrats were incredibly inept. All of them, from Hillary at State and in the campaign down to the DNC goober who clicked on that phishing email.
    Inept??? negligent??? just "didn't care"??? More than likely a combination of all three.

    The massive "hacks" in the Social Security and OPM data-bases were the result of the dims just not using effective protection software...

    Quote Originally Posted by jjk308 View Post
    * I've found that disassembling the drive and using a sledge hammer to pulverize the discs works very well.
    A sledge is classic "overkill"... A 2 lb. ball-peen will do the job quite nicely.
    THOMAS SOWELL: "freedom is seldom lost all at once. It is usually eroded away, bit by bit, until it is all gone. You may not notice a gradual erosion while it is going on, but you may eventually be shocked to discover one day that it is all gone, that we have been reduced from citizens to subjects, and the Constitution has become just a meaningless bunch of paper."

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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    Not sure where you get your news but if Putin's influence over our president is not top priority, then you my friend have been duped.
    Hate the last guy till you turn blue in the face but this is now and the past is hard to change.
    Changing the future however is possible so in between bouts of rage over past crimes (and what administration has clean hands after all) it might be prudent to pay attention to what is happening right in front of your eyes.
    I am not now nor have ever been a commie, and I Pray to God that remains a true statement.
    Chaz , you are so terribly misinformed , the responsibility for that is simply ignorance on your part. I don't think you are paying attention to the blinding obvious and a lot of good men here have illustrated facts for you to no avail. The problem is at your end to correct.

    Or ...its proof : "You can't fix stupid". I hope that gets you off the couch and being better informed .

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    [QUOTE=jjk308;6527258]That's according to the FBI. I rate as an IT professional, having supervised the installation of a network and managed it at NAVAIR, and in my not so humble opinion the Democrats were incredibly inept. All of them, from Hillary at State and in the campaign down to the DNC goober who clicked on that phishing email.

    The RNC wasn't unusually brilliant, just average, except for failing to completely clean up their files on an old system*. But since those files didn't cover the election years they were, probably, so boring Wikileaks wasn't interested.

    * I've found that disassembling the drive and using a sledge hammer to pulverize the discs works very well.[/QUOTE]


    I have some GI 7.62x51 AP. Taking the drive to the range and putting a couple of (5 round, bolt gun) magazines into it will preclude any data recovery.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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