Fin capture Imperial Tula
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Thread: Fin capture Imperial Tula

  1. #1
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    Default Fin capture Imperial Tula

    I had been looking for an early M91 and found this one to fill that hole for a while. The bolt may match as the font looks really similar, but the cocking peice I believe has the later Tula star? The mag bottom has a 6 as in the last digit of the serial, but that font doesnt look like the rest. Has the right barrel bands and the bore is pretty good with about an inch of counterbore. Unfortunatly the stock looks like it was sanded with power tools and the finger grooves are now shallow and undefined. One day Bubba must be punished for his crimes! Anyway, picked it up with 450 rounds of Russian light ball for $350 and was interested in what you serious MN collectors think. I hope the pics turn out right side up!Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
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    I would've bought it at that price, too bad it was sanded.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by alarmingman View Post
    I had been looking for an early M91 and found this one to fill that hole for a while. The bolt may match as the font looks really similar, but the cocking peice I believe has the later Tula star? The mag bottom has a 6 as in the last digit of the serial, but that font doesnt look like the rest. Has the right barrel bands and the bore is pretty good with about an inch of counterbore. Unfortunatly the stock looks like it was sanded with power tools and the finger grooves are now shallow and undefined. One day Bubba must be punished for his crimes! Anyway, picked it up with 450 rounds of Russian light ball for $350 and was interested in what you serious MN collectors think. I hope the pics turn out right side up!
    Power tools usually leave little telltake swirly marks on the wood that you can see. I think that stock probably was sanded stateside at one point, but I've seen unsanded finn rifles with "melted" looking finger grooves before, the wood might have been really rough and smoothed by a Finnish armorer somewhere along the way - bubba might not be completely responsible.

    I think the stock has been gone over though, probably with manual sandpaper (I can't see swirls in your pics). the stock doesn't look to have a rifle stock oil finish any longer. Bubba would have had to really lean into the finger groove to make them that melted-looking by accident.

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  5. #4
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    The price isn't too bad at $150 for the ammo and $200 for the rifle. The bolt was likely renumbered in Finland. It's not uncommon to find a mixture of makers on the rifles, along with parts from varying time periods. The stock was heavily by some new owner.

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    I was half joking about power tools being used because whoever did it had a heavy hand. Look at the very tip of the stock, at how dark, almost black it looks. I would be much happier if the whole stock looked that dark and dirty. Were many of these 3 line rifles captured by the Fins?

  7. #6
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    Nice obr. 1891!

    However, I believe that this "Fin capture" is most likely an inheritance from the Russian empire or purchased elsewhere. I don't believe obr. 1891 was used in WWII by the Russians, although there are pictures of opolchenie with obr. 1891. Reading Palokangas' book I see that most of the three-line rifles in Finland were actually purchased peacefully.
    "It's impossible to grasp the boundless" - Kozma Prutkov

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    Quote Originally Posted by alarmingman View Post
    I was half joking about power tools being used because whoever did it had a heavy hand. Look at the very tip of the stock, at how dark, almost black it looks. I would be much happier if the whole stock looked that dark and dirty. Were many of these 3 line rifles captured by the Fins?
    That sanding was not done in Finland.

    The Finns purchased or traded for many tens of thousands of M91s in the 20s and 30s. In fact, the Finnish M91s account for a very large percentage of remaining known Russian and French made m91s available in North America/Europe (along with Balkan and a few SCW guns). Tens of thousands came to the US as surplus in the late 80s and 90s.

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    That makes sense that Russian troops in 1940 would be armed with 91/30 rifles and not the older m91s. SA stamps were added in 1942?

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    Not sure how many (if any) M91's the Russian side was carrying when they invaded, but you do see Finn captured dragoons that are still original with the "41" capture stamp, meaning at least some dragoons were mixed in with 91/30's when the russians invaded.

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    Regardless still a nice rifle for the money. Ya the stock bites but 1910s don't grow on trees either. What a gem it would of been without the heavy sanding. Would of jumped on it too. Heck I don't even care about ammo thrown in with it. Picked up a 1910 Tula from here on the boards and it is one of my top 5 M91s. Not sure about top five value, but top five favorites. Congrats, John.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claven2 View Post
    Not sure how many (if any) M91's the Russian side was carrying when they invaded, but you do see Finn captured dragoons that are still original with the "41" capture stamp, meaning at least some dragoons were mixed in with 91/30's when the russians invaded.

    There are just a few M91s that are 41 marked also and some SVTs as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Handsome Devil View Post
    Regardless still a nice rifle for the money. Ya the stock bites but 1910s don't grow on trees either. What a gem it would of been without the heavy sanding. Would of jumped on it too. Heck I don't even care about ammo thrown in with it. Picked up a 1910 Tula from here on the boards and it is one of my top 5 M91s. Not sure about top five value, but top five favorites. Congrats, John.
    Only a handful of 1910 Tulas known - that doesn't make it really more valuable, unfortunately.

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    I've owned a 1924 Tula M91 that was SA marked and a 1919 Tula with the SA and 41 marks. I've seen dug-up m91s along with ww2 era equipment found in various places in Russia as well so they were definitely being used even if on a limited basis.
    Last edited by racerguy00; 03-12-2017 at 08:25 PM.

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    Nice pickup and price.
    Laugh hard and often.

    Gary

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    Thanks everyone for the info and history on this rifle. I will shoot it next weekend and see how it does.

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