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Siamese Type 38 Arisaka, Bent Bolt, 6.5 x 50mm ???Help

10K views 43 replies 19 participants last post by  chubfisherman 
#1 ·
I have been searching online for a while in regards to a rifle I bought a few years ago and I have been coming up a bit short. I hoping someone here will be able to help me out, and could tell me the age, history, value(should I use it deer hunting or store it )and any other facts about this gun. I have seen many Jap 99's that are close but have seen no Siamese guns(Thia)anywhere out there for sale, pictures or much info on this type of gun.
What I do know(or think I know)...is that this is a Siamese Jap Type 38 that is used by Thia police. My gun has the Charka emblem and 1793 in Thia numbering on the receiver, bolt, and stock. The stock is also one piece verses Jap 99's that were two piece used by the Japanese. The bolt is bent(manufactured that way). Also, The Siamese took a few thousand 35th year Arisakas but modified them to shoot 8mm or 8x51mm Mauser and carry the Sandscrit marking on them. Could my gun be a 35th year Arisaka? I don't know. If anyone out there can help me I would love to know more on this gun or who I should contact to find out. Check out the pictures below.








 
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#2 · (Edited)
It looks like you have a 'Thai Police carbine', the bent bolt and cutout wood beneath the handle, and the M1 carbine type sling cutout in the butt are correct for this carbine.

It should still be in 6.5x50mm Japanese, and was made from a normal T38 rifle, not a T35.

They are neat little carbines and should make a fine hunting rifle as is.

They are valuable as a collector item too; so don't modify it; maybe $300+/-.
 
#19 ·
It looks like you have a 'Thai Police carbine', the bent bolt and cutout wood beneath the handle, and the M1 carbine type sling cutout in the butt are correct for this carbine.

It should still be in 6.5x50mm Japanese, and was made from a normal T38 rifle, not a T35.

They are neat little carbines and should make a fine hunting rifle as is.

They are valuable as a collector item too; so don't modify it; maybe 300 +/-


QUOTE]


I do not agree with the estimate...+/- $300

I recently sold one for $900.00........Very fine example like the one above
And the only other one I seen for sale DID not sell and the bid ended over $1,000!.....

I just wanted to make darn sure that the owner of the weapon know's the latest estimate of these guns...there not often encountered and very expensive!


Enjoy

BAF
 
#4 ·
Thnaks Guys....do either of you know where I could find more info on them...? I've been banging my head on the wall trying to find the history of the guns and all i can find is a brief note saying the Japaneses sold Arisaka to the Siamese back during WWII...thats about it.
Thanks for the info....
 
#5 ·
That's about all that is out there. There have been a couple threads on them, maybe Frank will see this and add some info.

The T38 book will be out in a couple months, that will be a source of info for you.

These were imported to the US in the 60's if I remember correctly; something in the neighborhood of 7,000 were converted, I don't know how many were imported.
 
#6 ·
Well, the one I have has English numbering on the sites, and the few Thia guns I've seen had Siamese(Thia) numbering on the sites. So perhaps this could be one of them? Frank is the guy I was recommended to see from another site...I hope he does have so info he could provide. Anyway, if anyone out there has info, I can provide better pictures to help in identifying the gun.....I thought it would have been easier than its been. Frank.....where are you?
 
#7 ·
Siam Police carbine.

Look at your rear sight closely, if like the other modifications to this configuration the center section was removed and the top welded to the bottom to create a "carbine length" sight.

There have been a couple of articles in past BANZAIs on these, but Frank Allan is the Siamese rifle guru. If he does not answer this post, as noted above, it should be covered in his new book.
 
#9 ·
Thai carbine

This is the Royal Thai Army version of these carbines. The police version, with a different crest, is designated Type 91 and we believe that this is also the designation of the army version. No records available on them in Thailand. More about these in the upcoming T-38 book.

Frank
 
#13 ·
Hi Roy,
glad you finally made it!

Have you edited your preferences so you can receive PM? Go the the user CP, on the upper left of the page.
 
#17 ·
Carbine pictured on the MilSurp thread is incorrect, the Siamese bent the bolt handles and stamped the serial number in Siamese on the bolt root. In the early 80s Springfield Sporters had a number of these carbines with regular 38 bolts, handle not bent. Some wee vbent by later owners, but if it does not have the siamese #s it is not original to the carbine.
 
#22 ·
Thanks for that iyour take on its value.....
If I do sell it, I want to go into the deal with an approximate value. I, too, haven't seen this gun anywhere....besides on military surplus auction and it was going for $1,400.00.

I'm definetly going to take better care of it now that I know they're reletively a rare gun.
Anyway....I'll go with a range of $300- $1,400.00. It'll come down to what the market will bare anyway.....not that I'm selling it.
 
#23 ·
Value

I'll be very happy to sell mine to anyone for $1400 or even $1000; last one I sold went for $350.

If people will pay that kind of money, they aren't around here.

Everytime I give a value estimate, somone is unhappy and someone else disagrees; so no more estimates from me.
 
#24 ·
I'll be very happy to sell mine to anyone for $1400 or even $1000; last one I sold went for $350. If people will pay that kind of money, they aren't around here.
Everytime I give a value estimate, somone is unhappy and someone else disagrees; so no more estimates from me.
I'd have to say that $1,400 is an aberration. Sounds like an overeager buyer with funds to match.

C/
 
#25 ·
Thai Carbines

Check the old Hunters Lodge ads from the late 60s if you can find some These were offered back then for not too much money along with some Indonesian M95's that were modified to .303 British Very interesting additions that lots of people didn;t buy...... including me
 
#30 ·
Thanks for posting this information. I have one of these, but didn't know what it was until I read this information. Mine is number 1339 and is in great shape, especially the bore. The rear of the stock has had some work done to it to fix a missing 1" chunk of wood, but otherwise, it looks super. It has three seemingly deliberate white marks on the back of the stock. Don't know what those mean. Bought it for $100 from an estate sale with about 9 other guns.
 
#31 ·
Thai Police and RTA "M1" 6,5 carbines:

The Thais converted a lot of 6,5mm T38 Japanese Rifles to either the "M1" format carbine for Police or Army use, in the early1950s ("Type 91"==1948) and also to a Short Rifle ( unknown type number) in 6,5mm (deactivated) training rifle and .30/06 (active) Training Rifle.

At the end of WW II, the repatriated Japanese from within Thailand just left their T38s etc with the RTA (Royal Thai Army) and because of the strange "occupation" of Siam (Thailand) by the Japanese, the Thais were not considered "co-belligerants" of the Japanese, and so, in the greater scheme of things, became to all effects "Allies"...Thailand accepted US aid ( in M1 carbines and .30/06 calibre ammo etc...) and started to use the great accumulation of Japanese equipment on hand (Thailand had also bought large quantities of "ex-service" T38s in the 1930s and even durng early WW II.).

The Long T38 rifles were considered overly clumsy for the short statured Thais, so they were "Cut down"...and in order to give the Police especially a "respectful "look, the cutdowns were crafted in "M1 carbine " style ("Looks can Kill!") as there were not enough US carbines to go around.
The later "Short rifles" also had a "earsight protected" front sight, very similar to both the M1, and the later shape of the Ruger Mini-14 front sight.

All these models usually had turned down Bolt handles, and cross pinned Magazine floor plate release buttons (to prevent loss of the Floor plate...a common event in training.
Occasionally some of the M1 Copies have straight Bolt handles(Police Guns)

I have fired all three types ( 6,5 carbine, 6,5 short training rifle (re-activated) and .30/06 Short Rifle;;;the 6,5 rifles shoot OK, as they were virtually new guns when converted; the 30/06 had excessive headspace ( head separations became evident after one or two reloads), and were "over-powered" for such a light rifle.

The Thais soon rlelegated the .30/06 also to training only...and a lot of them (both 6,5 and .30/06) show cracked stocks, from using them for a "leg up" over barricades and walls.
I picked up 6 of the 6,5s...almost New metal (Japanese 1930s Nagoya Blue) all with cracks in the wrist of the stock, from such activity...

Regards, Doc AV
AV Ballistics.
 
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