need help with pa-63 all black frame
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Thread: need help with pa-63 all black frame

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
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    Default need help with pa-63 all black frame

    I picked up this pa-63 from the Ft Worth gun show yesterday and I'm having a little trouble dating it and figuring out exactly which model it is. From what I can gather so far it's either a very early military model or a civilian model import by Century Arms International. http://hungariae.com/FegPA63.htm states that the early editions did not have the two tone finish, however http://modernfirearms.net/handguns/h...pa-1963-e.html shows something closer resembling what I have as a civilian market version in 9x17 (.380). Here's where it gets weird though, it clearly has a stamp (albeit by century) 'mak' (9x18) on the slide. Just trying to nail down which model I have before I try to load the wrong ammo. Any help is appreciated.
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
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    849

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    Quote Originally Posted by glagnaar View Post
    I picked up this pa-63 from the Ft Worth gun show yesterday and I'm having a little trouble dating it and figuring out exactly which model it is. From what I can gather so far it's either a very early military model or a civilian model import by Century Arms International. http://hungariae.com/FegPA63.htm states that the early editions did not have the two tone finish, however http://modernfirearms.net/handguns/h...pa-1963-e.html shows something closer resembling what I have as a civilian market version in 9x17 (.380). Here's where it gets weird though, it clearly has a stamp (albeit by century) 'mak' (9x18) on the slide. Just trying to nail down which model I have before I try to load the wrong ammo. Any help is appreciated.
    Did you try dropping a 9x18 Makarov round in the chamber? If the chamber is 380acp, a 9x18 won't fit.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    Years ago when I frequented gun shows I saw quite a few with the black frame. They commanded a premium with the black frame. I asked one dealer about them and he told me these were done in the US.

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  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    I have one that looks just like yours but the SN has two letters preceding the numbers. East Germany bought about 30,000 of these blackened ones for their MfS Ministerium für Staatssicherheit (Stasi) in 1972 mostly with the prefix BA, BE BF and my pistol is from one of those ranges. The fact that "mak" is added to the slide probably confirms it is chambered for the 9x18 round (mine only says "9mm" on the slide however "9 Mak" has been added to the chamber area). But like someone else said, if a 9x18 round will not fit, then it's a 380.

  6. #5
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    Mar 2017
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    i had some old .380 laying that loads in the magazine, chambers, and ejects. unfortunately i do not have any mak laying around, looks like i need to make a trip to academy and see if they'll sell me one bullet instead of a box

  7. #6
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    Dec 1969
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    SE Wisconsin
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    If we knew where you are, maybe one of the kind board members could help with a "donor" round !

  8. #7
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    Dec 2011
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    The 9X18 round uses a slightly larger diameter bullet than the .380 (and the 9mm Parabellum).

    I don't have any .380 rounds to test with, but I did do a 'bullet test' on the muzzle of my PA63 (a silver frame example, known to be in 9mm Mak) with a 9mm PARABELLUM (Luger) round (I used a 1950's Czech surplus round that I had handy), and the bullet easily entered the muzzle all the way to the case mouth.

    When I tried the bullet test with a 9mm Mak round (I used an MFS factory round that was handy), the bullet ALMOST went all the way in due to the short ogive on the bullet, but there was still a definite small gap between the case and the end of the barrel.

    If you get the same result with factory '9mm' rounds in these calibers on your pistol, that would be some pretty good evidence that your PA63 is in 9mm Mak.

  9. #8
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    Mar 2017
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    UPDATE: went to academy and got a box of monarch 9x18 mak steel case ($10.49/50rd box), fits in mag, chambers, ejects. stuck it in the nose end of the barrel like Ronbo6 sugested and there is a small gap between the end of the barrel and the case. so i do believe i have a makarov pa-63 and not an incorrectly stamped .380, im a bit relieved because that's what i had intended on buying but then again it would have been one hell of a collector's piece if it was the other way around.

    that being said, i noticed the pictures i took are a bit hard to make out, hadn't cleaned up the gun yet and using my cell phone camera arent going to yield the best results. I'd still like to try and date this particular pa-63 and figure out as much as i can about it before i consign it to pocket duty. it has all the standard hungarian markings 'i' heart, circle M, crest, 51 or 57 (ive heard the 1s sometimes look like 7s) and serial number BF32462. it also has some markings on the barrel/chamber collar, tried to take a picture but really hard to make out, looks like either an 8 or B in an upside-down triangle and a T inside a sheild or pointy circle. all on the left hand side of the gun, right hand side has no markings whatsoever.

    thanks again for the help guys, love trying to solve little puzzles like this. I'll keep digging around online and post links to any new info i find as well.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    Lone Star State
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    1,687

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    I would get a Wolff extra power recoil spring to reduce the abusive recoil this gun has.
    My idea of border control is m-60 machineguns every 100yds with interlocking fields of fire.

  11. #10
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    Mar 2017
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    ive had one before (two tone version) and didn't have an issue with it. maybe down the line I'll do a spring kit to fix the d/a trigger pull but overall, one of the more enjoyable pocket cannons ive shot. buddy of mine has a ruger lc9 that is just a ridiculous contraption. tiny, concealable, well thought out little gun but at the range its like trying to squeeze rounds out of a nuclear chipmunk.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
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    Upstate NY
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    25,112

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    Shoot it first before you decide to change springs.
    Laugh hard and often.

    Gary

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