1909 Argentine Auction Yesterday - $2370 ??
Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: 1909 Argentine Auction Yesterday - $2370 ??

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    264

    Default 1909 Argentine Auction Yesterday - $2370 ??

    This seems a bit on the high side, no? There was another auction for a nice one that went for over $1200.

    One question regarding these "unissued" 1909 Argentine Mausers, would not the stock and hand guard wood match on a pristine example? This auction seems to have a hand guard that is different from the stock. Makes me wonder about the "unissued" condition.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/624926417

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Central North Florida
    Posts
    4,647

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,689

    Default

    Absolutely crazy. Whoever bought that will be sitting on it for a very long time before getting that price out of it. These are $800 on their very best day. Did anyone notice that the hand guard does not appear to be original to the rifle?

    Firearms prices are crazy these days.

    Edit - I just re-read the OP's post and see that he also noted the mismatched hand guard.

    I have no doubt that this rifle was not issued, but it was most definitely fired. How it got the mismatched hand guard is anyone's guess. The furniture on these was made out of a single piece of walnut.
    Last edited by Abulg1972; 03-13-2017 at 11:23 AM.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    GunBoards.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Manitoba,Canada
    Posts
    369

    Default

    this is probably an item that for sure the metal has been cleaned;all the tell-tale signs. the receivers on these rifles show a little tarnish on ones that haven't been cleaned.screws show the signs of removal with improper tool.the wood is the biggest hint. its either a humped auction process,or a new un-informed buyer.good looking piece,but the others' comments regarding pricing are spot-on.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Thanks for the information about stock and handguard coming from the same piece of wood. On mine the wood matches, but the grain pattern does not line up. I am guessing that is to be expected.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Northern Lower Michigan
    Posts
    360

    Default

    The relatively uninformed buyers with deep pockets are coming out of the woodwork. An A(1) paid $910 for a pristine Venezuelan yesterday. Never cleaned a Milsurp that had a clean barrel - all have had powder reside - at least the 400 I have cleaned. Someone is going to have a long wait to break even on this rifle.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,689

    Default

    Tax refund time ...

    The world has gone crazy. $1700 for an M39, $2300 for a M1909 ...

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    732

    Default

    If the 1909 Argentine Mauser that started this thread went for $2370 on GB, I wonder what my '60s import 1909 that's mint and ALL matching (including the muzzle cover and test target) would go for.

    Sam
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1.JPG   2.jpg   3.JPG   4.JPG   5.JPG   6.JPG  

    7.JPG   8.JPG   9.JPG   10.JPG   11.jpg   12.JPG  


  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    732

    Default

    More pictures.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 20.jpg   13.JPG   14.JPG   15.JPG   16.JPG   17.JPG  

    18.jpg   19.jpg  

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,689

    Default 1909 Argentine Auction Yesterday - $2370 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by ncsammy View Post
    More pictures.
    Wow! I've never seen one of these with a test target. That's awesome! Very jealous.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Manitoba,Canada
    Posts
    369

    Default

    now that's a lovely,honest example. i'd like to see you get an even better price for yours. but i have a strong suspicion about the auction example. i went to gun auctions 40 years ago,live auctions,and i witnessed the hokey-pokey going on then. same bidder chasing the prices up on all the lots;but i knew he was bidding on his own guns.so the auctioneer was also involved in the deceit. caveat emptor.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,689

    Default

    Here's one of my favorites. A matching, truly unissued 1909 that never had a crest. No test target, unfortunately.







  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Arizona Moutains
    Posts
    1,134

    Default 1909 With factory target

    My earliest M-1909 that still has it's test target is this "B" block. JH
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1909 B 1512 001.jpg   1909 B 1512 002.jpg  

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Do your 1909 stocks have an AG inside a shield mark on the underside of the stock? From looking at 1891 rifles, I had become convinced that the AG-shield on the stock meant that the stock had been replaced at the arsenal, but seeing that mark on several very nice condition 1909's has made me question that assumption.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,689

    Default 1909 Argentine Auction Yesterday - $2370 ??

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeACTM View Post
    Do your 1909 stocks have an AG inside a shield mark on the underside of the stock? From looking at 1891 rifles, I had become convinced that the AG-shield on the stock meant that the stock had been replaced at the arsenal, but seeing that mark on several very nice condition 1909's has made me question that assumption.
    Where did you read that? I don't have my copy of Webster's book with me but I need to look this up.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    464

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Abulg1972 View Post
    Here's one of my favorites. A matching, truly unissued 1909 that never had a crest. No test target, unfortunately.
    Clearly the rifle has been humped. Look at the numbers. Bubba did it in their garage. Just ask the guys in the 98k forum, they'll set you straight!

    Just teasing!!!!

    Fantastic rifle, thank you for the photo's, both you, ncsammy, and haak48. Thank you very much for sharing.

    Reminds me of the several times Landies has had a MINT 1909 for chump change compared to the above auction. Guess I should have snapped it up. I was so enthralled with his display last show I forgot to look at it and see the price he was asking. Always made me wonder what condition one he was keeping in his collection .

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Arizona Moutains
    Posts
    1,134

    Default "AG" in shield

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1909 trigger guards.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	138.5 KB 
ID:	2043834

    Here are three unissued 1909 Argentines with targets. A "B" block, "E" block & a "N" block. All have the AG shied on the underside of the grip. JH

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,689

    Default

    I have studied and watched Argentine Mausers for the last 5 years. I don't know why but I really love them. Until today, I have never seen one with a target.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    464

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by haak48 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	1909 trigger guards.jpg 
Views:	12 
Size:	138.5 KB 
ID:	2043834

    Here are three unissued 1909 Argentines with targets. A "B" block, "E" block & a "N" block. All have the AG shied on the underside of the grip. JH
    The AG may be an acceptance mark, possibly from a supplier, possibly from a process, or an inspection. Would be interesting to do further study on the matter.

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    264

    Default

    As far as I know, Webster does not mention the AG-shield mark. I have been reading archive forum threads back to 2009 and have run across several posts that say that the AG stands for Arsenal de Guerre and means arsenal work.

    I have been collecting pictures of 1891 Argentine rifles and carbines and see many examples of AG-shield on the barrel. My assumption has been that the mark on the barrel that looks like interlinked ovals is the inspection mark for an 1891 barrel (not listed in Webster), and the MB firing proof is the other mark on the "normal" barrels. I have seen barrels with AG-shield and three with CC-shield and assumed that they are replacement barrels.

    I have also seen the AG-shield on the bolt handle ball of 1891 rifles from the A-E series. These were the ones that received free bolts from Loewe due to the extractor problem. The A-E series rifles were already in Argentina, so Loewe sent the bolts along with the equipment to modify the receiver with the extractor support pin (per Webster). My theory has been that these bolts were marked with AG-shield when they were worked on in 1899. The bolt handle stem has the normal serial number, firing proof and cap inspection mark. The original bolts seem to have a star inspection mark instead of the cap, also not included in Websters list of inspection marks.

    Most of the 1891 stocks I have seen with the AG-shield seemed to be light color wood and usually the barrel also had the AG-shield on them. That made sense for my theory of a replacement stock, since the reddish color stocks seemed to be the "normal" ones.

    The discovery of the AG-shield on these obviously untouched 1909's throws a huge wrench into my theory.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails normal barrel.jpg   AG barrel.jpg   bolt - AG mark.jpg   CC barrel.jpg  

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •