What's wrong with a 9x18 threaded barrel? They are out there.
I have wanted to suppress one of my Makarovs for a long time and the only way to do it (I think), is to replace the 9x18 barrel with a .380acp threaded barrel, as I cannot use a 9mm Luger suppressor with 9x18.
Now that Makarov.com is out of business, where can I find a .380 threaded barrel and a barrel press? Can I replace the barrel without a barrel press?
Who makes a reasonably priced 9mm Luger suppressor?
What's wrong with a 9x18 threaded barrel? They are out there.
There is no problem using a 9X18 round through a 9mm parabellum suppressor. The difference in bullet diameter makes little difference in the suppressor as they are generally bored oversize. I ran a 9mm para can on my Makarov long enough to realize that the makarov is a lousy suppressor host. As a straight blowback handgun the added backpressure of the suppressor will cause the ejection of the case to be earlier than it should occur. This allows the action to open while the pressure is still a bit high and results in a loud pop out of the ejection port. 9X18 and in many cases .380 is transonic and the bullets will make a loud crack as they head downrange. All in all what this adds up to is a very loud pistol even when its suppressed. There were longer threaded barrels available some time back but the FBI went around test firing pistols belonging to those who purchased them and many barrels had been removed and abandoned to the FBI since they were pretty useless anyway. It is not necessary to use a barrel press to remove or replace the barrel in a makarov.
Hope that answers your question. For a good suppressed platform look for something with a locked breech like the beretta 92, SIG 226, HK etc....
The 9x18 round is quite a bit larger than the 9x19, this is why I thought it will cause baffle strikes. The .380 is almost the same size as the 9x19.
9x18 = 9.27 mm
.380acp = 9.0 mm
9x19 = 9.03 mm
I think if you're using .380 ball that was manufactured in the USA, it should stay subsonic. But yes, a straight blowback pistol will be more difficult to suppress than one with a locked-breech.
And it does sound like buying a FEDeral barrel is a good way to come into contact with the feds these days, due to a murder investigation in Washington state.
Sometime ago there was aposter here who had bought a regular 9mm supressor from a dealer that assured him that it was for 9x18 cartridge. Had continual overpressure problems until he figured out he had been cheated. Can't recall whatever came of it, but he was sure pissed about it.
I'd just suppress a 9mm non blowback gun.
subsonic ammo will be cheaper, suppressor cheaper, etc.
I am aware that Makarov is not the best candidate for suppressing, BUT I always wanted to suppress one. It is the cool Cold War KGB factor, not anything else ...
So, you guys think I can used 9x18 rounds with 9x19 suppressor and that won't cause baffle strikes?
If so, where do I find a 9x18 threaded barrel?
I also remember the fellow who posted here that was having tons of trouble with his suppressed Mak in 9x18. I seem to recall that he blew out a couple of extractors, possibly had some other problems, all from overpressure due to the use of a 9mm/.380 diameter can.
I would have a threaded barrel custom-made in .380, since some of the FAC barrels are junk and the FBI intends to speak with every person in possession of one.
Do you have one of the Bulgarian .22lr conversion kits? If so, you might also consider that as a host for a suppressor.
If you absolutely have to suppress a makarov than you can use any 9mm can. The difference in bullet diameter is negligable with 9 para and .380 at .355" and the 9X18 at .363". That small amount of change will have no real effect on backpressure or boost. The reason guys are blowing parts out of their Mak's is that suppressing an unlocked breech pistol with a round that has the power of the makarov is on the edge of safe. It has nothing to do with being "cheated" and sold a normal 9mm can. The windage or space between the bullet and the baffles is enough that .008" will not make any difference. The difference in sound between a baffle with .020" clearance and one with .080" clearance is very slight. To account for wobbly bullets, marginal threads on the barrel and customers that allow the cans to get slightly loose, most commercial manufacturers will allow the larger clearance. I make suppressors in a wide range of cal's and have suppressed a number of 9X18 locked breech weapons with very good results. The Makarov just isn't one of those. . .
Hope that helps
Actually the .380 and 9X18 have similar bullet weights, similar velocity and similar recoil so while there may be some slight advantage to going with .380 over 9X18 in the Makarov you will still have an unlocked breech. On my makarov I removed the threaded barrel and returned it to its original non threaded barrel. When suppressed its not pleasant to shoot in either .380 or 9X18, its noisy and still requires earplugs and it beats the gun up. You must choose for yourself how to spend and such but for my money it just wasn't worth it. For the suppressor duty, I built a High Standard HD military with an OSS style suppressor, at least externally it looks like the OSS Pistol. Its very quiet, cheap to shoot, deadly on small vermin and the wife likes it. The makarov has none of those features except the vermin removal. It does however sit in the nearby cabinet incase unfriendly intruders visit and for that purpose the Makarov is a great choice in my opinion.
Hope that helps
Still can't find a threaded barrel ...
You're going to have to find one of the extended barrels and have it threaded.
Or you may be forced into internal-threading an original barrel and having a thread-coupler made to attach your device. See http://www.tornado-technologies.com/ for someone who specializes in such work.
I seem to recall reading that the Russian KGB used a special Safety mechanism with their suppressed Makarov pistols, that allowed the safety catch to lock the slide but still allowed the trigger to be pulled and the hammer to drop. It essentially rendered the pistol a single shot when the safety catch was engaged, and there was no firing safety. The breech stayed closed, solving the problem of high pressure discharge from the ejection port. The operator had to unlock the slide and manually cycle the action for each shot when the safety was engaged, and it operated normally when the safety was disengaged (except there was no true safety).
Has anyone tried to change the the recoil spring from factory 17# to a Wolff 19# or 21#? What effect it has had over the problem discussed here?
In general, 9x18 and .380 rounds are sub sonic. Corbons and some specialty light loads might break it, but most are not.
Speed of sound is 1116.4 ft per second at sea level...
Not too many tested are over this... http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=299
You will note that substantially they are around 1000 FPS for most rounds. I think you have other sound issues, like moving 100 grain bullets at 950 FPS, will make some noise, as will the breech action, etc. I don't think you can make a "silent" .380 or 9x18. It's just too much mass moving too fast.
I have yet to supress one of my Mak's but I do have a threaded .380 barrel on one. I am looking for a .380 suppressor at this time. I would appreciate being pointed in the right direction for one.
It only makes sense to use a .380 instead of a 9x18 because the equipment exists out there already to supress .380s and it is more common.
I agree totally that a .22 conversion is a better supression candidate than either the .380 or 9x18 because of the reduced pressures involved. The .22 conversion kit has a threaded barrel already. All you need is a readily available .22 suppressor to shoot it.
Just my .02 worth.
My question was directed to the unlocked breech issue of all straight blowback guns. "One of Many" brought up the modified safety approach used by the KGB. It does not seem too hard to do. Nevertheless, a stronger recoils spring could do the job as well w/o messing up with the safety. Just want to know from anyone who has suppressed a Mak (either 380 or 9x18) and tried a stronger spring. It seems like such a low hanging fruit!
BigDans: Any suppressor made for 9mm Luger should work for .380, as the bullets are the same diameter.
Also there is always someone selling one in GB
link to live auction removed - see rules - ST
Last edited by SlimTim; 01-02-2009 at 01:03 PM. Reason: remove auction link
You can only breathe so much air before you die.
that when they were trying to improve the stopping power of the 9x18 round they came out with a higher pressure version. To deal with the added pressure, they cut threaded circular grooves in the chamber. Apparently this delayed the unlocking just enough to slow the recoil speed of the slide.
Found the link: http://club.guns.ru/eng/handguns.html