Finn captured untouched PE snipers, open holes
Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: Finn captured untouched PE snipers, open holes

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Assachusetts
    Posts
    337

    Default Finn captured untouched PE snipers, open holes

    Here's two Finn PE snipers that I just got. One is '35 and another one looks like '35 that for whatever reason was restamed to '36. All matching with the exception of butt plates (both sanitized) and restamped '36 has non matching floor plate. But I guess it's not the case where you should be picky about 100% matching parts. Beautiful bores on both and not counter bored. Both rifles are in two piece Finn stocks, one of them was never finished. I plan on using pine tar mix on unfinished stock. Isn't that what Finns used on their stocks? What you think?
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5085.jpg 
Views:	261 
Size:	337.7 KB 
ID:	2056234Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5086.jpg 
Views:	264 
Size:	323.3 KB 
ID:	2056242Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5087.jpg 
Views:	234 
Size:	326.9 KB 
ID:	2056250Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5088.jpg 
Views:	221 
Size:	330.4 KB 
ID:	2056258Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5089.jpg 
Views:	266 
Size:	304.1 KB 
ID:	2056274Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5090.jpg 
Views:	250 
Size:	301.7 KB 
ID:	2056298

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Calif, land run by liberals, and illegal immigrants
    Posts
    1,353

    Default added pic of '39

    Looks like one is '36 and the other is 35 overstamped with 6? If they were mine I would do nothing to the wood. They are rare and highly desirable as they are. I have 3 finn capture snipers, two top mount '37s and a really scarce top mount '39 with pot bellied finn stock like yours.. My '39 has a finish like your 35/6, seems like some kind of oil finish.... Congrats on a great find!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1939 Finn sniper 004.jpg  


  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    1,397

    Default

    Both stocks are finished. The one that looks dry has the correct finish on it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    Mosin Fanboy

  4. Remove Advertisements
    GunBoards.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    6,963

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by willyj73 View Post
    Both stocks are finished. The one that looks dry has the correct finish on it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    +Infinity

    Please don't be "that guy" who gleefully fixes what doesn't need to be fixed. Your rifles do not need to be refinished.

    I simply can't believe these lessons are never learned despite the wealth of material waiting just a few clicks away.
    Purists of the world, unite!

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    Samuel Adams

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Assachusetts
    Posts
    337

    Default

    If that's the case, I'm not gonna touch it at all. I didn't think it was finished. Just curious what kind of finish it is? it really looks like bare wood. Was it how it was issued to Finn snipers? Obviously I plan on putting scopes back on, I hope it won't be a crime to cut out the stocks to accommodate the base of the mount, won't it?
    Quote Originally Posted by willyj73 View Post
    Both stocks are finished. The one that looks dry has the correct finish on it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,570

    Default

    1935s over stamped to 36 have turned up in the past. I had an ex PE sniper that was stamped the same way and others have been noted in the past. Great rifles to pick up! I have a couple of my own that I hope to re-scope someday. Its a tough decision for me about cutting the stocks they were imported in and lean toward finding donor stocks for mine and keeping the Finn stocks as they are.
    Looking for PU scope number 10062. See post http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...light=pashutr3

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    1,397

    Default

    I wouldn't cut a Finn stock. Too hard to find. I'd look for a replacement stock for it.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    Mosin Fanboy

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,570

    Default

    The serial number on the 36 over stamp ex-PE I had was 130002.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 36 EX PEM I use to own.jpg  

    Looking for PU scope number 10062. See post http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...light=pashutr3

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    8,986

    Default

    The plain brown stock is an identical finish to my mint P-series and is original. Look at the splices -if they are square it is postwar.

    A Russian sniper was captured in a Mosin stock, so if there is cutting required, find an old Mosin stock with screw-in escutcheons rather than a Finn stock.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Assachusetts
    Posts
    337

    Default

    I guess it's really meant to bejust found ebay lot of three mosin stocks with two of them being prewar with screw in brass escutcheons. Should have them next week. As for splices they are rounded on both rifles.
    Also what would be time correct barrel bands for these stocks. Can anybody post a picture please? I'd like to have them assembled and keep them as part of the history of these rifles after I swap them into soviet stocks.
    Last edited by pavlin; 03-19-2017 at 09:39 AM.

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    SW PA
    Posts
    1,397

    Default

    The barrel bands will stay with the rifle as far as I know. You'd either have to bend them, or remove the front sight to remove the bands.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    Mosin Fanboy

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Assachusetts
    Posts
    337

    Default

    yeah I know) The big one actually clears the front sight, it's the small one that doesn't. Anyways what I meant is what are the correct bands for finn stocks?
    Quote Originally Posted by willyj73 View Post
    The barrel bands will stay with the rifle as far as I know. You'd either have to bend them, or remove the front sight to remove the bands.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  14. #13
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    155

    Default

    You could cut off most of that wood going forward and then paint the stock in camo, that would be cool.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Assachusetts
    Posts
    337

    Default

    good idea, I was also thinking welding acog scope right over those mount holes
    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    You could cut off most of that wood going forward and then paint the stock in camo, that would be cool.

  16. #15

    Default

    Are you going to resniper?

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Assachusetts
    Posts
    337

    Default

    Most definitely))) just waiting for donor stocks to arrive and cutting will begin. Contacted Mike at Mosin parts for bolt service but so far no answer other than that should be easiest conversion ever
    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering38 View Post
    Are you going to resniper?

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Assachusetts
    Posts
    337

    Default

    I mentioned in my previous post that bolts aside, it should be easiest conversion ever... Well it wasn't. Turns out both bases needed to be hand fitted to the receiver. Before I realized it I stripped two screws Both bases are in dug up condition however serve it's purpose 100%. I promise once I find NOS i'll swapOne had some rust/oxidation build up in the holes, so I had to open them up a bit with dremel and diamond bit. The other one was sitting just a fraction of a millimeter too high so I ended up filing the bottom of the base. Once filed the base holes aligned perfectly with the receiver holes. Receiver holes also needed some cleanup from old, solidified cosmoline. I think that's why I stripped the first two screws. Some WD40, wire brush and bunch of swears in Russian did the trickBTW while the stocks were removed i looked at receiver tangs. The over stamped 35/36 is 35 on the tang, and 36 is 36 on the tang. As for bolts Mike at mosin parts never responded so I' going with Boltman. Here's so far the progress:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5131.jpg 
Views:	52 
Size:	300.1 KB 
ID:	2101754Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5132.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	290.0 KB 
ID:	2101762Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5133.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	291.2 KB 
ID:	2101770Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5134.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	293.2 KB 
ID:	2101778

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    I mentioned in my previous post that bolts aside, it should be easiest conversion ever... Well it wasn't. Turns out both bases needed to be hand fitted to the receiver. Before I realized it I stripped two screws Both bases are in dug up condition however serve it's purpose 100%. I promise once I find NOS i'll swapOne had some rust/oxidation build up in the holes, so I had to open them up a bit with dremel and diamond bit. The other one was sitting just a fraction of a millimeter too high so I ended up filing the bottom of the base. Once filed the base holes aligned perfectly with the receiver holes. Receiver holes also needed some cleanup from old, solidified cosmoline. I think that's why I stripped the first two screws. Some WD40, wire brush and bunch of swears in Russian did the trickBTW while the stocks were removed i looked at receiver tangs. The over stamped 35/36 is 35 on the tang, and 36 is 36 on the tang. As for bolts Mike at mosin parts never responded so I' going with Boltman. Here's so far the progress:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5131.jpg 
Views:	52 
Size:	300.1 KB 
ID:	2101754Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5132.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	290.0 KB 
ID:	2101762Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5133.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	291.2 KB 
ID:	2101770Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_5134.jpg 
Views:	36 
Size:	293.2 KB 
ID:	2101778

    Beautiful.. send them to my house now. FYI Receiver and base holes vary significantly IMO. I believe that the base was mounted on the receiver and they were both drilled/tapped in place at the same time, Thus the variance when trying to use a original base on a rifle it was not numbered to. .Also why they were numbered . Hope you polished the trigger parts when you had them open. : love that battlefield look. 5000+ pieces of history. Far rarer than most k98s

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Assachusetts
    Posts
    337

    Default

    That's also the conclusion I came to. Makes total sense. It's much easier to solder base to the receiver first and drill right through thus making hole alignment 100% precise vs drilling either one first and then measuring the other to make it match. However these two random bases matched these two random rifles almost 99.9% So after all I guess there were more or less specific specs on top mount drilling measurements and slight misalignment can be explained by shaky hands of hungover Ivan on Monday morning
    Quote Originally Posted by mjmd View Post
    FYI Receiver and base holes vary significantly IMO. I believe that the base was mounted on the receiver and they were both tapped in place at the same time, Thus the variance when trying to use a original base on a rifle it was not numbered to. .Also why they were numbered . Hope you polished the trigger parts when you had them open. : love that battlefield look

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,133

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    That's also the conclusion I came to. Makes total sense. It's much easier to solder base to the receiver first and drill right through thus making hole alignment 100% precise vs drilling either one first and then measuring the other to make it match. However these two random bases matched these two random rifles almost 99.9% So after all I guess there were more or less specific specs on top mount drilling measurements and slight misalignment can be explained by shaky hands of hungover Ivan on Monday morning
    yes, I agree there were specs and I also believe they changed over time . there is also a possibility that the bases were pre drilled, then mounted and used as a template to drill the receiver. not all were soldered . I think they adjusted the process in 35-36 to a better mounting tech that eliminated solder, although I have seen some crude siege mounts that were soldered from the late war period.Those bases were two piece and the bottom appears to be pipe cut in half with a saw.

    I am sure the receiver was drilled with the base in place, whether or not the base was pre-drilled and used as a template I can not say for sure, They were however tapped at the same time. Lots to speculate on.

    I have found variances in center to center original base holes to be as much as 1.0-1.5 mm from spec which is a lot when trying to line them up on the wrong rifle especially when you are dealing with the bases that have that 20 degree countersunk screw head. Hole alignment gets even harder Original bases also vary in length . Things got sloppy in the machinist world as the war dragged on. Holding tolerances was never their forte to begin with.

    These observations are based on the twenty or so original bases that have been measured to date and the twenty or so finn capture open tap rifles i have seen. Small pool I know
    Last edited by mjmd; 04-04-2017 at 12:39 PM.

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    11,536

    Default

    I do not think it is ever easy to put bases and screws back on a top mount PE, a side mount PEM or a PU even if you have a rifle that was never "de-snipered and welded" and/or has an "original" base. The variations in rifles, bases and even the screws make the process a PIA.

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Assachusetts
    Posts
    337

    Default

    True
    Quote Originally Posted by mike radford View Post
    I do not think it is ever easy to put bases and screws back on a top mount PE, a side mount PEM or a PU even if you have a rifle that was never "de-snipered and welded" and/or has an "original" base. The variations in rifles, bases and even the screws make the process a PIA.

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Michigan, USA
    Posts
    19,127

    Default

    Yes the variance can be half a hole at times I've found. Pretty rare to have one drop on actually.
    Administrator of Gunboards.com
    Mosin Nagant.net
    Michigan Historical Collectables

    "Tulta munille!"

    "Terror is not a new weapon. Throughout history it has been used by those who could not prevail, either by persuasion or example. But inevitably they fail, either because men are not afraid to die for a life worth living, or because the terrorists themselves came to realize that free men cannot be frightened by threats, and that aggression would meet its own response. And it is in the light of that history that every nation today should know, be he friend or foe, that the United States has both the will and the weapons to join free men in standing up to their responsibilities."
    John F. Kennedy

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Central Finland
    Posts
    4,008

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    I plan on using pine tar mix on unfinished stock. Isn't that what Finns used on their stocks? What you think?
    Not pine tar but mixture made of boiled linseed oil and bitumen dissolved in sulphate turpentine. Also known as Kiväärintukkiöljy or Rifle Stock Oil.


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •