Hungarian 91/30
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Thread: Hungarian 91/30

  1. #1
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    Default Hungarian 91/30

    Someone recently offered me a 1951 dated Hungarian 91/30. Very nice looking rifle and hardwood stock. Only drawback was a large US Army special forces symbol carved into the buttstock. The carving is very well done but what context would that symbol ( De Opresso liber with knife and arrows) have on one of these rifles? Sorry no pics available. Price was $395

  2. #2

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    I think that is a fare price if it is in fact a Hungarian (M48) 91/30 and not the more common m44. There are not common on the US market.

  3. #3
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    They are very uncommon, buy it quickly at that price.....or let me know and I will buy it....heh, heh....got an unissued Hungarian stock waiting for it.....if the carving is well done, I would not let it be a detractor for buying.....if it looked like an illiterate beaver carved it with bubba beaver teeth.....well you will want a replacement stock.

    Pahtu.

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  5. #4
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    OMG ! I suggest that the context for someone carving a special forces symbol in the stock is that it was done to memorialize the capture of this rifle during the Vietnam war by a SPF guy. Take it for what it is, or resell it to someone who will appreciate the historical significance of this rare find. I would buy it and you can make a nice profit, or start joining the interesting world of collecting Vietnam memorabilia.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by sksguide View Post
    OMG ! I suggest that the context for someone carving a special forces symbol in the stock is that it was done to memorialize the capture of this rifle during the Vietnam war by a SPF guy. Take it for what it is, or resell it to someone who will appreciate the historical significance of this rare find. I would buy it and you can make a nice profit, or start joining the interesting world of collecting Vietnam memorabilia.
    Well, the carving looks quite expertly done and not something half-arsed. The artist took his time doing it, so I'm guessing done stateside. The rifle doesn't have the look of a bringback. It's very clean, no rust or jungle rot. The rifle has seen very little use. It's a nice and interesting piece, just no provenance and not sure it's worth the cost. Maybe I can talk him down a bit.

  7. #6
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    WAG - 700, 800+ for a real nice non sniper example(seems most rifles of these type in the country are snipers, not being a sniper makes it more uncommon).....carving....well....Vietnam bringback....perhaps enhance the value......Either way....395....no brainer....If I saw this at a show....it would be coming home with me. Then it would help complete my Hungarian....Romanian.....and to find Albanian 91-30s...

    Pahtu.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Well, the carving looks quite expertly done and not something half-arsed. The artist took his time doing it, so I'm guessing done stateside. The rifle doesn't have the look of a bringback. It's very clean, no rust or jungle rot. The rifle has seen very little use. It's a nice and interesting piece, just no provenance and not sure it's worth the cost. Maybe I can talk him down a bit.
    Buy the gun, not the story. Offer $375 but settle for $395.

  9. #8
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    Anything is possible but I sincerely doubt the rifle has any Vietnam connection. While Vietnam bringback Hungarian PU snipers are very common, I have never seen any evidence of the standard Hungarian M48 Mosin rifle being used or brought-back from Vietnam.

    My guess, and it's really nothing more than a guess, is that the piece in question was "imported" by a member of the US 10th Special Forces Group based in Germany.

    A very few Hungarian 91/30 rifles may have slipped in from Canada and a few arrived in various lots of imported Mosins, but there are also a handful of known examples imported by US servicemen while stationed in West Germany. Look for West German proof markings.

    PS: I am still recovering from a bad cold and don't have the attention span to expand on many of the points raised herein (including especially the "importation" issue in apparent contravention of the '68 GCA.)

    Please accept my apologies for the abbreviated treatment of an interesting subject.
    Purists of the world, unite!

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    Samuel Adams

  10. #9
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    I'll second the motion to look for West German proof marks. To my knowledge, all of the Hungarian M91/30 rifles I have witnessed will have this proof.

    Photo, courtesy of Len S


  11. #10
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    I see you're in New England, and would point out that the 10th SFG(A) was previously based in Fort Devens, MA. Their area of focus was Europe, and they always had a battalion (1/10) forward deployed to Germany. Perhaps this was acquired in Europe when it was still possible for SMs to bring weapons back, and then presented as a gift to a member of 10th SFG(A).

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by nowhere011 View Post
    I see you're in New England, and would point out that the 10th SFG(A) was previously based in Fort Devens, MA. Their area of focus was Europe, and they always had a battalion (1/10) forward deployed to Germany. Perhaps this was acquired in Europe when it was still possible for SMs to bring weapons back, and then presented as a gift to a member of 10th SFG(A).
    True and buy it. Please post pics. Does it have the German proofs?

  13. #12
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    Saw the rifle again and it has the same markings as Martin08 posted above. I'm going to pass as I'm short of funds and it just doesn't fall into my range of interest. The buttpate and mag cover are force matched. Lined out numbers look to be same font, serial prefix, and range. Anyone close to Boston who wants to have a look PM me for location.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin View Post
    Saw the rifle again and it has the same markings as Martin08 posted above. I'm going to pass as I'm short of funds and it just doesn't fall into my range of interest. The buttpate and mag cover are force matched. Lined out numbers look to be same font, serial prefix, and range. Anyone close to Boston who wants to have a look PM me for location.
    Force matched buttplates and magazine covers are pretty common with Hungarian M1891/30 of the earlier production series (i.e. made in 1950 and 1951) So this rifle (except that stock carving) is fully legit IMO.
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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