Want to know Mosin font info.
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Thread: Want to know Mosin font info.

  1. #1
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    Default Want to know Mosin font info.

    Ok so I have been trying to learn all this mosin info for the last many years and I always see someone talking about this font or that font on some rifle used in the number stampings, ect. I have been searching and reading various threads on here and I have picked up some info but its kind of scattered about. Is there a thread that has most of that info in one spot or can anyone just explain it? I've been able to figure there is different fonts for different times and different factories...but I am still not sure if I found all the info or how to tell the difference really....probably because I can't see them all in one spot. If anyone has a quick general list of the number of different fonts, times they were used, factories and maybe a few pics, that they would be willing to put up, that would be cool. Thanks!

  2. #2
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    This may be what you are looking for:

    http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinID.htm

  3. #3
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    This subject could bring up a bunch of opinions and known facts that may disagree with each other. Do not know of any scientific study comparing "font". In context of us lessor studied collectors this is my take if I read your question correctly OP. Normally, not always, the question of "font" is identifying the font on renumbered pcs on a rifle vs original stampings. Often the rifles known as "Balkan" imports for instance have had butt plates, floor plates restamped to match the sn# on the chamber of the barrel. I presume the bolts were restamped too, but most do not have matching bolts as they were separated from the rifle at some point {again I presume this thing about bolts being stamped and separated}. The bolts have been restamped as well but seldom match anything else, at least on my specimens. The size and type of font used on these are usually newer looking and larger than the original numbers were. At a glance it looks like the stamps were newer style font as well as being larger. The rifles I speak of are mostly the Romanian M91s that were probably the last large importation of M91s, that I know of anyway. This along with other traits usually excludes Finn heritage.

    Finland seldom if ever restamped butt plate numbers to match. CG rifle from Finland did not restamp butt plates and floor plates to match, except floor plates on Sk.Y contract M39s. To the best of my knowledge they did not on the M27s as well. Sako did re-stamp or forced matched floor plates on many M39s both Army and CG contracts. Usually they lined out the old numbers, ground them off or put a slash through old numbers and then restamped. Have seen a number of VKT M39s with force matched floor plates, but in much lessor amounts than Sako rifles? It is usually obvious that the forced matching took place. Newer collectors or older collectors with bad eyes might miss the differences and just figure "all matching". Of course there is original matching numbers that is ultra rare to find and then there is forced matching numbers. This is where studying the different font comes in handy to observe if it is actually original or not. The same would apply to added or faked markings applied by some hack or possibly by a former country who possessed the rifle after it has been worked on at some level?

    Not sure if this answers your question or not. I do not know of a specific thread dedicated to "Font". I think this is more or less part of collecting that one hopes to be able to recognize on his or her own? Like recognizing a refinished stock or bluing vs original. Sometimes it gets really hard and you might ask on a specific rifle or part. To me this is comparable to identifying reworked or refinished rifles and parts. To an untrained eye or collector caught off guard you may mistake refurbed for new/unissued. Think most of your answers regarding font will be found under the "power of observation". This is why we look or try to look at the whole rifle to assume provenance or historical journey like so many of these rifles have. Just ramblings and we all keep learning as we go. I suggest any of us venture over and read up on JPS WW1 forum http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdis...taria-And-Arms. A huge pile of info related to MN collecting, especially M91 not particularly Finnish. Not just M91 but the history of the region where many of the non Finn rifles came from. It all ties together and feel dumb for not going there a long long time ago. I just rediscovered the wheel here. But with all the recent discussion of pre ww1 M91 and how to identify countries of secondary origin you may find it rewarding. I did. It also may not help with "FONT" but it will enlighten you in other ways. Regards, John.

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  5. #4
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    This will be by no means a comprehensive rundown on the subject, but it will hopefully give you a start. I have little interest in pre-1930 Mosins, and will deal primarily with Soviet Mosins produced from the 30s through the end of production.

    To begin, both Tula and Izhevsk used more ornate fonts during the '30s than were seen later. Examples:

    1936 Tula



    '39 Tula


    '40 Tula


    Early '30s Tulas appear to me to be in pretty much the same font (someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). As mentioned previously, I haven't really observed many pre-1930 Tulas, so can't comment on how much farther back this style went.

    I haven't paid enough attention to the font on early '40s Tulas to add much on the subject, but mid-to-late war Tulas have a peculiar mixture of simplification (the 1) and continued ornateness (3, 5, 7, etc.):

    1944 Tula


    1942-1944 Tulas usually had a stamped floorplate, and this is the only instance I know of where the font will be different from the barrel on original matching Mosin parts:

    1944 Tula stamped floorplate (note that it's a smaller, simplified font compared to the other numbers on the gun)



    Izhevsk used a very similar serif font until about 1938 . . .

    '37 Izhevsk


    Now note the simplified style seen on this 1938 Izhevsk:


    And a very similar, if not identical, font carried on through the war years and through the end of production just postwar.

    '43 Ihevsk


    In particular, the 1 and 3 (seen in the pic above), and the 4 (seen below) are very distinctive on late 30s thru end of production Izhevsks



    Also bear in mind when looking at fonts that off-center strikes, harder/softer strikes, curved surfaces (like barrel shanks), etc. can cause individual characters to vary.
    Wer von seinem Tag nicht zwei Drittel für sich selbst hat, ist ein Sklave.









  6. #5
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    Just one slice of this broad topic.

    Here's original matching S number on m/28. The S prefixes were stamped by Sako during manufacture and the actual number by an armorer at the destination district, when the rifle was issued. Because the armorer stamped both the barrel and bolt number they must have matching font if original bolt, fitted by Sako.





    These pics are from Ted's page here: http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinSerial.htm

  7. #6
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    Default Fletching Tula Arrow

    One of the changes that occurred is that pre-1942 Tulas, the fletching on the arrow inside the Tula Star have five per side. Then from 1942 on the arrow in the Tula Star had only four per side.

    Here is a '42 Tula on the left, and a '40 Tula on the right. Click image for larger version. 

Name:	42&40 Tula.jpg 
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ID:	2059322 You can see the fletching on the '40 Tula.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	42 Tula CH.jpg 
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ID:	2059386 On this '42 Tula you can see the four fletching.
    Last edited by Montana Bearbait; 03-19-2017 at 02:24 PM.

  8. #7
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    Very interesting guys! Thanks alot! Actually all the points brought up are things that I did not know so knowing these things makes me enjoy my meager collection even more. Just being able to look at what I have and know what I have in more detail is something I enjoy.

    Jp, thanks for the link. I have been on that page many times but for different reasons, now that you bring it up it is a great way to see many differences all in one place. Never thought of it. lol.

    John (H.D.) Thanks for all that great info! Many of the things you bring up are in fact part of what I was searching for. Many times on here I am reading others posts about guns that may not be just "right" or "is this real" or "where is this from" and many times people that know their guns, many of you guys who posted here, usually say something about the font and it tells you if some part on the rife is wrong like is pre war on a war year or from a place like the Balkans or Romania or if a rifle was faked, ect. I have no idea just because I have not observed many of the different rifles, esp ones from or put together in other Russian satellite counties. One example, there was a recent thread post about a fake sniper selling for a lot and I knew enough to spot the fake scope screws but I couldn't of told you that the stamped scope number on the side was fake because the font was different. Same with bolts. If that had a real pu mount and scope on it I may have spent a lot of money on a fake rifle. Being some what new to collecting these rifles, it is very helpful for me to know what to spot that kind of thing as most of my rifles are ex sniper/sniper and I do worry about buying a fake. It would also be great to be able to be at a gun show and be able to tell if I am holding a Balkan rifle or a Romanian ect. I have a couple Russian and Finnish rifles and they do have line out numbers and I did assume that is just refurb or Finn standard stuff, didn't think much of it, but I will now pay more attention. You are right, observation is key to learning what is what. This info all helps too mostly because I can now know the reasons or what a font type identifies, like helping spot a refurb vs a unissued for example. I will check out that link as well.

    Ol'Relic, your info is also just what I was looking for, and the pictures help a lot. Part of the reason I was asking was because I have noticed on my rifles that many times the 4's are different but I didn't know why. I never really noticed that the 1's changed that much, which seems funny to me now being that they got a lot more simple. The 3's I never really noticed that, harder to tell I guess. Anyway the correlation of fonts to years as well as factory will be a great help! My oldest Mosin is a 1935 and newest is 1944 so the info presented is right in the range of the rifles I currently have. I tried to compare my rifles to each other and I would see differences between Izh and Tula but I didn't know what years things changed and reasons for finer details. One example I read on here was a tula where the 19X part of the date was all the same font, and the last number was stamped in a different font and was bigger and struck harder...which on my tula's almost all of them seem that way. I think on that example someone may have said the rifle serial was also of a different font, can't remember but you know what I mean.

    CH, thanks for the example. I can really tell on that M28 that they sure are the same font. It is good to know that matching examples it really is "matching" in more aspects than just the number combo.

    Montana Bearbait, thanks for pointing that out! I have a few 30's and 42-44 tulas and I never even noticed the differences in the arrows! I guess this means I need to study my rifles more haha.

    Anyway thanks to all for the great info and pictures. Having many pictures to make a direct comparison has helped a ton. I now have a better idea of the different years and factory differences, what to watch with the line outs, butt plates, like having Izh parts on a Tula. It will be nice to be able to tell where a part was made and when by just the font, if there are no other indications. It will help in the overall ability to spot nonrefurbed and to spot fakes which obviously will be a good thing. I will have to be more observant of more rifles when it comes to these other country mosins so that I will better be able to tell what is what outside of the "normal" countries symbols on the barrel.
    Last edited by ChargerFury; 03-20-2017 at 10:53 PM.

  9. #8
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    Oh and thanks for that link to JPS's forum section, I have never been to it. I can tell already I am going to study a ton of info there. I love the M91/30 but I have always had a huge interest in WW1 so it will be rewarding.

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