Total Production numbers of the Mle 1878-84 and the Mle 1885 Kropatschek Rifles???
Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Total Production numbers of the Mle 1878-84 and the Mle 1885 Kropatschek Rifles???

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Outer Mongolia
    Posts
    8,517

    Default Total Production numbers of the Mle 1878-84 and the Mle 1885 Kropatschek Rifles???

    Hello Gents,

    Still without my library, however there is finally light at the end of the tunnel! In the interim however, I'm still hamstrung when it comes to details regarding specific models and need to find the total production numbers for both the Mle 1878-84 and the Mle 1885.

    Would someone please see if you have a reliable source(s) detailing the total number of the production of each of these models???

    Thank you in advance for your help with this. Three more months and everything will be out of storage and accessable!!!!

    ;>)


    Warmest regards,

    JPS
    Last edited by JPS; 03-20-2017 at 08:04 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    505

    Default

    Model 1878 : 25 000 (as far as we know, all made in 1879)
    Model 1884 : 85 000 (MAS : 50 830, MAC : more or less 35 000, orders known for 33 000, made from 1884 to 1886)
    Model 1885 (comprising about 2/3 of 1874-85) : probably 52 000 to more than 67 000.
    MAC : may be 2 500 "prototypes" + may be 4 000 model 1885 and 8 000 model 1874-85
    MAS : 6 500 model 1885 and 11 403 model 1874-85
    MAT : 22 500 to 37 500 and for what we know 2/3 of modified 1874 rifles (e.g. : orders for 1886 : 5 000/10 000).
    Made in 1885, 1886 and 1887.
    Last edited by Alamas; 03-20-2017 at 02:52 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Bretagne/Côte d'Azur
    Posts
    2,560

    Default

    Why associate the name Mannlicher with these rifles?
    The model 1878 can be linked with the name of "Kropatschek" as designer of the repetition system, to the Gras Mle 1874 bolt /receiver system and finally its manufacturer "de Werndl" of Steyr.

    The Mle 1884 and 1885 are French built on a design improved on the Mle 1878.

    Mannlicher association with De Werndl started in 1886.

    kelt
    Last edited by kelt; 03-20-2017 at 07:55 PM.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    GunBoards.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Outer Mongolia
    Posts
    8,517

    Default

    Hello Gents,

    First of all, thank you for the info Alamas. It's greatly appreciated. I can always count on you Gents here on the French Forum to provide reliable information, particularly with my library still in storage!

    Kelt!

    My bad Bud! LOL!

    I am in need of production figures regarding the M1885 Mannlicher as well. I posted the thread at the following link this morning on the Mannlicher Forum.

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...885-Mannlicher

    Because I was busy editing, rather than write out a whole new request, I copied and pasted the text from the Mannlicher thread to this one. In my rush to get back to editing, when I tweaked the text here I missed the "Mannlicher" that is mentioned in the title here on the French Forum. It was a mistake made in haste, NOT because I can't tell a Kropatschek from a Mannlicher!

    I've removed the "offending term" and have spent more time on this response then I spent on the original post. Most important of all is the fact that I have correct information for both questions from knowledgeable members both here and there.

    ;>)

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Bretagne/Côte d'Azur
    Posts
    2,560

    Default

    JPS,

    I always found irritating to see on (mostly) US publications the Berthier rifle system being dubbed as Mannlicher Berthier and your title pushed my button and made me jump on the keyboard!

    The Berthier magazine with its "en bloc" clip design is contemporary to the Mannlicher's but somewhat different, the clip is reversible and the feeding system is more elegant mechanically.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Outer Mongolia
    Posts
    8,517

    Default

    Hi kelt,

    No problem my Friend! I simply missed removing "Mannlicher" from the orginal title of the info request on the other Forum.

    As for the Berthier, it is most definitely NOT a "Mannlicher" Berthier. It's an original design that utilized improved "Mannlicher" en bloc clips to load the weapon.

    Always a pleasure!

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,263

    Default

    Great info on the Kropatschek.

    Anyone for "Mannlicher-Garand?" Ha!
    Alle Kunst ist umsonst, Wenn ein Engel in das Zündloch prunst.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •