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Pedersoli sharps infantry rifle 45/70

3K views 29 replies 9 participants last post by  Clyde 
#1 ·
Have an opportunity to get one of the Pedersoli sharps infantry rifles in 45/70. Now the $64,000 dollar question, would this qualify as a replica or would a FFL be needed?. Just want to stay legal and no suprises. Thank you,Frank
 
#3 ·
I have a .62 cal percussion that was bought over the counter....no FFL needed.
The 45/70 cartridge version (or any modern reproduction of an antique cartridge firing rilfe, carbine, pistol) requires that it be transferred through an FFL depending on what the state laws are for the transfer of a modern long gun.
Good Luck and post it if you get it.
Mark
 
#4 ·
Feds consider the 45-70 (or other cartridge replica) TO BE MODERN ARMS AND THEY ARE REGULATED ACCORDINGLY. yOUR STATEOF RESIDENCE MAY HAVE ADDITIONAL REQUIREMENTS, BUT HERE IN tEJAS, YOU GO TO THE lgs, FILLOUT YOUR 4473 AND HAND OVER YOUR MONEY WHEN IT CLEARS.

Sorry about the all caps, accidentally hit the caps lock


Of course you can buy, here and many other but not all states, F-t-F from another individual as long as BOTH are residents of Tejas with no formalities beyond transfer of money one way and gun the other.
 
#6 ·
ANY cartridge arm made after 12/31/1898 is regulated under Federal law. Black powder arms using caps or flint-locks, whatever DOM, are not (under FEDERAL LAW - some states are more restrictive) regulated, considered antiques. Cartridge arms made prior to 1/1/1899 are not subject to FEDERAL (once again - some states DO regulated these) regulation under 1968 GCA and subsequent acts. BUT - 1934 NFA applies without regard to DOM, so an old SBR or auto requires jumping through hoops.
 
#8 ·
Nitro powder proof doesn't matter. It could be Pulvero ***** only and it would STILL be a modern arm. It is being a cartridge arm AND made after 12/31/1898 that is the key as far as Federal regulation is concerned.
 
#10 ·
Is this a seller in your state? If so, check your state regulations, as you can often do a long-arm deal without going through an FFL. In fact, in my state of NC, I can ship a long gun to a non-licensee resident in my state without having to go through an FFL.

Just something to consider. The myth is often promulgated (either by FFLs or those who don't know the law and therefore default to using an FFL) that an FFL is needed in many cases where it simply is not required.
 
#12 ·
Well saturday I went down to the local lgs and picked it up. Nice bore, wood,trigger was also good. Couple nicks and dents on the wood. Gives it character. Wish the heck I could post pics but this old man is electronically challenged. Thanks for your help regarding staying on the right side of the law. And yes did have to fill out the 4473 form. Frank
 
#13 ·
samamara --- If I were you I'd pick up the Pedersoli sharps as soon as possible . I picked one up several years ago (buffalo type rifle) and have used it in several Quigley shoots located just outside Forsyth, Montana. I've done very well with it . And yes I had to go through an FFL dealer to buy it. I mounted a long range Vernier site on the rifle's tang that serves it very well out to 800 yds., the most distant target at the Quigley shoot.
I also have a Garrett Arms 45/70 Sharps Carbine that I use in Cowboy action (SASS) shoots. That might be what you refer to as an infantry rifle. Garrett didn't make these carbines for more than a few years, too bad. Out to 350 yds. they are very accurate. Mike "Duke" Ventrino says in his book "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" the Garrett carbine is "is a dead nuts replica of the old Sharps Carbine" from 1874. The serial number on my carbine is #350. Another shooter at a match I attended had Garrett Carbine sn #351 in 45/70. I thought he was going to get down knees and beg me to sell mine to him. He told me that what ever I gave for mine he would double it. I almost took him up on it but just couldn't do it.
Anyway don't be too concerned about the FFL requirement. Go get that rifle. Big Coulee
 
#14 ·
Quigley Shoot sounds like fun - for Sharps shooters. I'm guessing you can load a little hotter than Trapdoor loads.

I took my 1874 over to the 200 yard range to ring the gong. The snooty crowd shoots there & they always point & laugh when I appear. Before, it was with a .54 cal. flintlock & PRB. This last time was with the 1874 Trapdoor cut-down rifle using the black powder carbine load & hollow-base arsenal style bullet.

After I pulled the trigger, the scorn began flowing. About a minute later, the gong clanged. They all wanted to shoot it after that, since between firing & bullet arrival, they can all raise a family & write epic novels ...

They don't like my .22-250, since before they can point & snicker (40 year old rifle) the 3,650 f/s bullet is already there.
 
#15 ·
Picked it up about a week ago. Has the barrel mounted rear ladder type sight and what looks like a half moon front sight. Thinking seriously about getting a mid range tang sight and globe front sight with inserts. Serial number dates back to 1999 and bore is in what I would call almost new condition. Had a member of our gun club who had 5 Pedersolis and one Famingdale sharps. Never could get the Farmingdale one to shoot anywhere near the Pedersoli's. Interesting story, needed some screws for a krag and went to a local machine shop supply house to check the threads and pickup some taps and dies. I asked first if I could bring it in and they said yes. The owner of the business asked to see the krag and asked me to come see his office. He must have had about a half dozen of the farmingdale sharps on a wall mounted gun rack. He related as when Wolfgang Droge needed supplies he come in and pay off his bills with sharps rifles. I also had a gunsmith friend who went to Montana to help Wolfgang set up the production line. He's pictured in a Gun Digest article working at the sharps plant. Sadly he passed away some 20 years ago due to a heart attack. He will always be missed as he always took the time to help me out whenever I had a problem. I used to live in NYC and frequented many of the gun shops there and on Long Island. Frank
 
#16 ·
Yes the Quigley shoot is a real Blast. About 10 % of the shooters use 1874 trapdoors or replicas of it. Most use Sharps rifles or replicas there of. The targets used are located from 325 yds., 480 yds, 625 yds, and 800 yds. The 325 yd. target is shot off hand while all the others are shot from cross sticks, much the same as the old buffalo hunters used in the 1860's through the 1880's. A shooter can use black powder or smokeless if desired. I've been using smokeless but I'm currently working up a black powder load for my .45-70 at Quigley.

I put together a Lyman .54 cal. Flint Lock kit that is a fine shooter for use in the black powder club I belong to. I've been using a percussion .54 cal. Lyman Plains Rifle kit I put together that has served me very well . But I thought I'd try a little more primitive piece and see how I'd do in some of our shoots. I took a bull buffalo a couple years ago with the .54 percussion rifle using a 275 grain patched ball and 100 grains of black powder. The ball passed through both sides of the rib cage and lodged just under the Hyde on the far side of the bull. He went down with one shot and hit the ground dead. The heart was completely destroyed by the ball after it had gone through one side of the rib cage. Distance was about 40 yds.
 
#17 ·
Yes the Quigley shoot is a real Blast. About 10 % of the shooters use 1874 trapdoors or replicas of it. Most use Sharps rifles or replicas there of. The targets used are located from 325 yds., 480 yds, 625 yds, and 800 yds. The 325 yd. target is shot off hand while all the others are shot from cross sticks, much the same as the old buffalo hunters used in the 1860's through the 1880's. A shooter can use black powder or smokeless if desired. I've been using smokeless but I'm currently working up a black powder load for my .45-70 at Quigley.

I put together a Lyman .54 cal. Flint Lock kit that is a fine shooter for use in the black powder club I belong to. I've been using a percussion .54 cal. Lyman Plains Rifle kit I put together that has served me very well . But I thought I'd try a little more primitive piece and see how I'd do in some of our shoots. I took a bull buffalo a couple years ago with the .54 percussion rifle using a 275 grain patched ball and 100 grains of black powder. The ball passed through both sides of the rib cage and lodged just under the Hyde on the far side of the bull. He went down with one shot and hit the ground dead. The heart was completely destroyed by the ball after it had gone through one side of the rib cage. Distance was about 40 yds.
Well, there you have it - Never underestimate the power of a PRB. These jokers nowadays seem to think they need conicals or other foo-foo projectiles because a roundball isn't cool enough for them. Good Shooting!
 
#18 ·
Load up some BP rounds and have fun. Once you start shooting BP in Sharps you won't go back to smokeless. And don't be afraid to stretch it out there. 200 yards even with iron sights is fun. Tang sight and 500 is even more fun.
 
#19 ·
Patched Round Ball & Mini Ball

A .54 or .58 caliber PRB with 100 grains of FFFg could take any animal on the No. American continent I believe if you know where to hit it . I have a .58 cal. kit I put together. Using a .58 cal. mini ball at about 500 grain weight & 100 grains of FFFg, I shot at two pieces of pine firewood stood up back to back. The ball passed through 14" (two pieces) of the pine fire wood. Each piece was about 8" in diameter and the mini ball passed completely through the first piece and 6" into the second piece . You sure don't want to use this load in a paid buffalo hunt while you are shooting at a bull in a herd where other animals are standing behind the one you are shooting at. A $1500 hunt could very quickly turn into a $3000 hunt in about 2 seconds. That mini ball has tremendous penetration and AWFUL killing power.
 
#20 ·
Our range goes out to 300 yds in 100 yd increments. Seriously thinking about having a 3/8" dovetail cut in the font of the barrel for a target or globe front sight and a mid range tang sight for the rear. tang on this sharps is already drilled and tapped for the tang sight. Thanks all for your info and suggestions. Very much appreciated. Frank
 
#21 ·
Isn't your rifle already equipped with a dove tailed front site ? My rifle came with a dove tail in the barrel about 1" back from the muzzle. Anyway yes I believe you should have it dove tailed . Install the globe front site that is equipped with a spirit level and several inserts for the globe. I like the cross hairs the best of the 5 or 6 inserts. The spirit level will tell you if you are canting your rifle, which you don't want to do when shooting long range. With the mid-range Vernier site, globe front site with spirit level and your good double set triggers you'll never miss the 300 yard target at your range. Set up something that will ring when you hit it and you'll have everyone at the range breathing down your neck to shoot your rifle.
You should come out to the Quigley shoot sometime . It is held on Father's Day weekend about 3 miles north of Forsyth, Montana . If you would plan to stay in a Forsyth motel you should reserve your room at least a year in advance . Motel rooms fill up fast. There are bed & breakfast places that are available but they fill fast too. If all that is taken you could stay in Miles City, Montana about 40 miles east of Forsyth on interstate 90 . Good luck and good shooting .
 
#22 ·
The Pedersoli sharps rifle that I have was made in 1999 and the front sight is a steel square with a slit in it for a half moon type blade. Maybe later dated model of the same type may have the dovetailed front sight but this one does not. Probably never going to shoot the Quigley in Montana or anywhere else. I have shot a couple of the fancier buffalo or match type Pedersoli's loaded with BP. Lottsa fun at the time. Frank
 
#25 ·
if I remember right the National Geographic Society did a article about the La Belle when the wreck was discovered. Actually built a coffer dam around the wreck, pumped out the water and then did an arceological (spelling) investigation on what remained of the wreck and whatever else was aboard her when she sank. Don't remember which issue or year as it was sometime ago. Found it very interesting. Frank
 
#26 ·
The State of Texas was mainly responsible for the excavation (only fair, in Texas waters, so Texas property). And yes, cofferdam was built to allow dry excavation in c. 12 feet of water. The recovered remains are now on display, I think at the Bob Bulloch Museum in Austin, and worth a look. Besides the NG Magazine article, there is a book (actually, probably more than one) on the ship and its recovery and what was found.
 
#27 ·
Clyde, thought the depth of water was much more than 12'. However you definitely know more about the La Belle than I. Found the construction of the coffer dam interesting as well. When they did an additional boiler and generator at the power plant I once worked in they did a rather huge coffer dam for both the inlet and outlet for the huge condenser and rotating screens. Used to go down there on my lunch break when they were driving the steel for the coffer dam. Big huge pile driver. Thanks for jogging the old brain cells. Frank
 
#30 ·
Don't know that I do "definitely know more". Except somebody at the recent presentation asked how deep the water was at the recovery location and the reply was "about 12 feet". Now - I reckon that guy (who was there) knows a LOT more than I do. I do know that most of Laguna Madre, except in the dredged channel that is part of the Intracoastal Waterway, is pretty shallow.

Azshooter says " Loading 65 grains of 2F, then seating a tight-fitting vegetable fiber wad, and then the ball with TOW atop to secure it, I hit the bale of soggy newspaper about dead center. It blew out one side of the box with a bunch of paper pulp & left a hole the size of a billiard ball out the back. The ball looked like someone hammered it flat on an anvil - to about the size of a milk jug cap. It left a big mess for them to clean up, but one of the guys wanted to next shoot the Fusil at a watermelon that looked to be intact after passing a dozen .223 rounds. He blew it into red mist with chunks of green rind sent flying.", and I say "oh yeah, you bet. How would you like to be in the beaten zone when a line of infantry was blazing away at maybe 30-60 yards in an 18th century lineal tactics battle?". Getting hit would be - bad. Ask Major Patrick Ferguson...
 
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