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Thread: Harrington and Richardson H&R MC-58 Model 65 Modified (USMC .22 Trainer)

  1. #1
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    Default Harrington and Richardson H&R MC-58 Model 65 Modified (USMC .22 Trainer)

    I had posted some pictures and a request for information on the old boards, looking for any information and data on the H&R MC-58 trainers that were used by the USMC. A lot of people have contacted me with questions and information because of those posts, so I thought I would transfer some of the info over to the new Boards.

    I'm specifically looking for information about the serial numbers and markings for the MC-58 rifles.

    Most sources indicate that there were less than 3500 of these rifles made for the USMC with serial numbers running from about 6,000 through 9,500. They were an update of the MOD 65 H&R Reising procured for the USMC during WWII. The most noticeable difference was the relocation of the safety from the right side of the receiver to the front of the trigger guard to better simulate the operation to the M1 and M14 rifles.

    I'd like to hear from any of you that have MC-58's.

    Thanks,
    Cass


    There were two different types of receiver markings on the H&R MC-58 receivers. Both types are different from the earlier WWII era H&R Model 65 Reising trainers.

    The two types are:

    USMC PROPERTY, MODEL MC-58
    H&R MODEL #65 MODIFIED
    HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON, INC.

    and:

    U.S. MODEL MC-58
    H&R MODEL #65 MODIFIED
    HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON, INC.

    The earlier WWII trainers were marked:

    MOD. 65 - H.& R. REISING 22 CAL.
    HARRINGTON AND RICHARDSON ARMS CO.
    WORCESTER, MASS. U.S.A.

    The USMC marked MC-58 rifles I have recorded seem to run in the earlier serial number range and the US in the later numbers.

    I have US and USMC marked Remington 40X's from about the same time period, so they had apparently begun to require different marking around that time.

    The first picture is of the USMC PROPERTY type marking.



    The second picture is the US MODEL MC-58 type marking.



    For comparison the third picture shows the WWII era Model 65 Reising markings.

    Last edited by Cass; 04-20-2011 at 07:05 AM.

  2. #2
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    Here are a few pictures of a pair of consecutive numbered MC-58's that I picked up from an estate a few years ago.

    Cass



















    Last edited by Cass; 04-20-2011 at 07:12 AM.

  3. #3
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    Here is a series of pictures showing one of the MC-58's that the Civilian Marksmanship Program auctioned from 2001-2003.

    Cass






    Last edited by Cass; 04-20-2011 at 07:33 AM.

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    Here is another series that the CMP posted during the auctions.

    Cass
















    Last edited by Cass; 04-20-2011 at 01:20 PM.

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    Here are some pictures of another of the new MC-58's sold by the CMP. There are a few detail shots that show the redesigned M1/M14 configuration safety for the MC-58.

    Cass





    Last edited by Cass; 04-20-2011 at 01:42 PM.

  6. #6
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    I was asked about the differences between the Mod 65 and the later MC-58. The biggest difference is the M1/M14 type safety. Here are a few differences I have noticed in the MC-58:

    - Safety location including lever, slotted trigger guard, and indents and safe/fire markings on receiver
    - stock shape thicker with flatter areas along edge of receiver and DoD stamp
    - bolt "in the white" rather than blued
    - magazine release tab is flat rather than curved shape
    - disconnector that engages sear is two piece with a "beak" shaped end piece added
    - parkerized finish is rougher and darker
    - receiver and barrel legend

    There may be some others.

    Cass

  7. #7
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    Here is another detail of the action on the MC-58.

    Cass

    Last edited by Cass; 04-20-2011 at 01:45 PM.

  8. #8
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    Cass, I have the H&R, also the civilian verion "Leatherneck" both are a pain in the a** to
    shoot, the bolt retainer is complicated and seldom can I finish a magazine without stops-I've changed the springs in the USMAC one but it keeps giving me trouble, its a pity because when it works plinking with it is like a Nintendo game, the peep sight is IMO the easiest way to aim, but does not happen with some of my friends who find difficulty in finding the proper alignment-This sounds stupid, specially for shooters with experience, if I pull the trigger lightly most probably the thing will jam, if I do it briskly most shots will work fine and cicle the action-

  9. #9
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    Question Not a usual thing

    I agree the bolt hold open is a pain - mostly because I never use it so I have to study it when I do. I do not have any of the later or commercial ones , so I cannot comment on those. I do have 3 M65s from the 1200 , 2600 , and 14,000 ranges and they have never jammed or misfired unless extreamly dirty , and a few passes with an AR-15 toothbrush and they are up and running. I have a shooting companion with another M65 and it works perfect too. I have run subsonic and regular HV stuff , never any super-speed HV , lead and copper , RN and HP , Federal and Remington and Winchester and others. No problem.
    I am sure you have cleaned and oiled the gun , disasembled , clean and dried you mags and given them a light coat of WD-40 and let them drain overnight before reassembly,etc. You said you put new springs in , were they new-new and orig H&R mfg? Have you checked the bolt and hammer and slide for free play? Any burrs?Extractor not chiped or spring weak? Ejector OK? Burr on feed ramp?
    I am sure your problem is simple and easy to fix , we just have to find it. What exactly is it doing?

  10. #10
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    Hello emmagee1917, welcome aboard! This forum has been a little slow since the new forum software change, but has been pretty lively for the prior 10 years or so.

    I haven't had much problem with the feeding on mine. I have had the extractor stick on some of mine. That seems to be a fairly common problem. I usually take the entire action apart and let the parts soak in a solvent, then re-oil with a very light oil.

    Cass

  11. #11
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    Tks for the answer and considerations about the possible trouble spots in the HR, I'll check them , specially I'll take apart the bolt and clean it thoroughly, something I never did.

  12. #12
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    Default Reising mod. 65

    I have mod. 65,missing the mag. Is there a replacement? Pete

  13. #13
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    Default USMC .22 trainer

    contact Dave McHhorter in Michigan 616-962-0214. He always has them and priced right. Tell him Frank sent you. Good luck.

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    Default Thanks to Frank

    Frank, thanks for the quick reply. I am new to this forum and was very happy with info. Petr

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    I'm still keeping a list of the MC-58 serial numbers and markings. If any of you have MC-58's or see them I'd appreciate you noting the information.

    Thanks,
    Cass

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    PM sent with number spotted this past weekend. Thanks for gettng back up with me.

  17. #17
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    Got your PM and reply sent. Thanks for remembering my earlier post!

    Cass

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    ammo3333:

    I sent you an e-mail.

    Cass

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    Here are a couple shots of the safety mechanism. Fire position on the left and safe position on the right.

    Cass

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cass View Post
    Here is a series of pictures showing one of the MC-58's that the Civilian Marksmanship Program auctioned from 2001-2003.

    Cass
    Hello Cass:

    I have picked up one of the NIB MC-58 guns. Do you have any information on how many NIB MC-58s were auctioned by the CMP? Thanks.

    Regards,
    Charlie Flick

  22. #22
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    Hi Charlie:

    Orest told me that they had received 70-75 of them. They auctioned most of them and were planning to save one or more for their planned museum. I saved the auction info on a number of them.

    Which type of markings does your rifle have? Could you send me the data?

    Thanks,
    Cass

  23. #23
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    Hi Cass:

    Thanks for your reply. Yes, I would be happy to send you the data. Don't have it handy here at work but will try to get it for you tonight.

    BTW, do you (or anyone else here) have any ideas on where I might be able to secure TM-ORD-2000 which I understand is the Tech Manual for the MC-58?

    Regards,
    Charlie Flick
    Last edited by ordnanceguy; 09-29-2008 at 11:05 AM.

  24. #24
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    Charlie:

    Thanks, I'll appreciate the info.

    I don't know of a source on the TM-ORD-2000. If you find two, get one for me, ha.

    Thanks,
    Cass

  25. #25
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    Hello again, Cass:

    My MC-58 rifle has the following markings:

    USMC PROPERTY, MODEL MC-58
    H&R MODEL #65 MODIFIED
    HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON, INC.

    It is serial numbered 8868.

    Hope that helps you. I am searching for the TM-ORD-2000 and if I can find more than one the second one will be for you.

    Best regards,
    Charlie Flick

  26. #26
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    Thanks, Charlie.

  27. #27
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    Great looking rifles! I am currently working on a M165 that needed alot of TLC.
    I found an NOS MC-58 stock and decided to do a replica.
    I removed the front sight ramp and modified an original sight to fit the slightly thinner barrel.
    I have mocked up out of aluminum a safety to see how it functioned.
    My questions are, Is the safety held on/off by a detent?
    How long is the MC-58 trigger from the pin to the tip?
    Any info would be greatly appriciated!
    Current and before pic.
    Last edited by DINO212; 10-01-2008 at 11:21 AM. Reason: pic

  28. #28
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    Looks good!

    From the center of the trigger pin to the tip of the trigger is almost exactly 2". The safety is held in position by a detent on the rear of the trigger base. You can see the detent ball in the picture.

    Cass

  29. #29
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    Thanks Cass! That is pretty much where I suspected one would be.

  30. #30

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    Sirs:

    I am new to the forum, and found it through a google search. I am researching information on a rifle left to me by my father, and it appears to be a .22 of the type discussed in this thread. The markings are similar to this one mentioned above:

    U.S. MODEL MC-58
    H&R MODEL #65 MODIFIED
    HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON, INC

    I don't have the rifle in front of me, but if I recall it is in the serial # range 6xxx. It has the green mesh sling and 1 mag.

    I do not want to sell it but curious about value for insurance purposes, as well as whether I should use it or just store it? I imagine the value is around $4-500 based on other things I've seen but cannot be certain. It doesn't appear to be one of the more rare versions based on what i've read.

    Thanks in advance!

    Chris

    BTW, great thread with good information and pictures...

    Edit to add and correct -- The serial # is in the 9xxx range. Also there is what appears to be a series of digits in grease pencil markings on one side of the rifle near the butt and a stenciled #4 in yellow. Otherwise all appears to be in great shape.
    Last edited by Christopher Storr; 11-20-2008 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Correction

  31. #31
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    Chris:

    I just saw your post as well as your other post with the pictures. Nice rifle!

    I'm glad you found the forum. That is one of the reasons I have all the pictures and used every possible search term I could in the title, ha!

    There were fewer of the U.S. Property marked rifles than the USMC marked, so you do have a rare version. All of the MC-58's bring a fairly high price. I have seen them run from about $650 (with some missing parts or other issues) up to over $2700 for a new in the box rifles at a Civilian Marksmanship auction. For insurance I would use from $1,000 to $1,500.

    Since this is not a mint rifle, a little shooting won't hurt it at all.

    Cass

  32. #32
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    Just got the one I've had for years sitting in a gun sock all cleaned up. Here's some pics of the first. Just have to find a magazine and a rear sight and I'll be good to go.

    Found a "Department Of Interior" sticker with a number underneath th e buttplate. What in the world is this? Said somehting like Fisheries and Game or something.
    Last edited by Taurus357; 01-31-2009 at 10:46 AM.

  33. #33
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    Taurus:

    I'd say that rifle cleaned up real well. That sounds like an interesting tag. Can you post a picture of the tag?

    I sent you a PM with some possible sources on the parts.

    Thanks,
    Cass

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    Yea here you go Cass. Havn't had a chance to track down any parts for this thing.




  35. #35
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    Sorry the pics are so big, wanted to keep em large enough to view.

  36. #36
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    Taurus:

    Thanks for the number. Interesting tag too. Must have been used by them then declared surplus later.

    Thanks,
    Cass

  37. #37
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    I seen your post on the tag under the butt plate. So I checked two of my three rifles. Under the USMC Model 65 MC-58 I found nothing. Under one of my Model 65 butt plate I found that someone drilled two 3/4 inch holes and had placed seven Winchester .22LR rounds in each hole for total of 14 rounds total. Interesting.
    Last edited by MK111; 02-03-2009 at 11:42 PM.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK111 View Post
    I found that someone drilled two 3/4 inch holes and had placed seven Winchester .22LR rounds in each hole for total of 14 rounds total. Interesting.
    This is actually quite common practice on wood stock .22's. Obviously not a good idea in hindsight, but for a rifle that you would be taking camping, hiking, or just generally out in the woods, this ensures you always have ammo on hand incase of an emergency.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taurus357 View Post
    Yea here you go Cass. Havn't had a chance to track down any parts for this thing.


    I just noticed this thread - that sticker is very familiar :D It was used by what's now known as the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service, back when they had a branch called the Bureau of Sport Fisheries & Wildlife. This branch existed between 1956 when it was created and 1970 when it was transferred to the Department of Commerce and renamed the National Marine Fisheries Service. So that sticker was applied to the rifle sometime between those years, when it was registered in a field office's inventory. I'm guessing it was used by FWS employees as part of their daily job, for controlling pests on a National Wildlife Refuge or for collecting biological samples for research. Interesting!


  40. #40
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    Can someone please confirm that the H&R Model 65 (not in the USMC block) are indeed
    Curio & Relic firearms now?

    "Brave men tell the truth, a wise man's tools are analogies and puzzles. A woman holds her tongue, knowing silence will speak for her"--Royksopp

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fushigi Ojisan View Post
    Can someone please confirm that the H&R Model 65 (not in the USMC block) are indeed
    Curio & Relic firearms now?
    Yes. If the receiver looks like this picture it was made before 1947 and is C&R.

    Cass

    Last edited by Cass; 04-20-2011 at 07:18 AM.

  42. #42
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    Let me try this again..are there any Model 65s that are NOT C&R right now? I know the 165 ran from 1947 to 1961, and the MC-58 is kind of obvious.

    "Brave men tell the truth, a wise man's tools are analogies and puzzles. A woman holds her tongue, knowing silence will speak for her"--Royksopp

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fushigi Ojisan View Post
    Let me try this again..are there any Model 65s that are NOT C&R right now? I know the 165 ran from 1947 to 1961, and the MC-58 is kind of obvious.
    No. I referred to the picture only because the Model MC-58 also has the words "Model #65 Modified" stamped on the receiver and that sometimes causes confusion.

    Cass

  44. #44
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    Anybody out there have the complete front sight that threads on the barrel for an H&R 65 Riesing?

  45. #45
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    Default New to this rifle

    I just picked up one of these in Tulsa last week. The serial is in the 6500 range. It has the USMC markings, safety like the Garand, I would rate finish 97% or better. Bolt has a little speckle to it. ( I have not tried to clean it ). The stock has a small DOD acceptance stamp on the inside of the pistol grip? Would the stamp be right? The stock is perfect and appears original to the gun. Does anyone know when it would have been made? It also had a garand sling on it. Web that is. I am new to these rifles and any information would be great.

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