Finn Tikka 91/30s
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Thread: Finn Tikka 91/30s

  1. #1
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    Default Finn Tikka 91/30s

    Can someone tell me what the original bore diameter was on these barrels. I'm about to start reloading for one to use in military silhouette matches.

    Thank you,
    PA
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    Mine just slugged out at about .3095-.310. .311 bullets work fine for me. As always, slug your own bore, and I am not responsible for whatever happens.

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    Thank you, appreciate the info.
    Looking for PU scope number 10062. See post http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...light=pashutr3

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    You need to slug your bore bro. That will be the best advise you'll get to be honest. Especially if you are gonna use cast bullets. If not then I personally haven't heard anyone having issues by shooting a .311 bullet out of any mosin. Even 28/30's wich most are .308-.309
    Good luck.

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    I believe the Finns had standardized on a .310" groove diameter with the long D166 throat about 1941. My 1943 and 1944 Tikka barrels are both .310.

    The simple recommendations are .311 Sierra bullets for Finn barrels and .312 Hornady bullets for Russians.

    Good luck and have fun!
    Now officially collecting Mosin M38s!

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    If you are going to load for competition why not use the Lapua D166 bullet these rifles are chambered for. Nothing else is going to get close to the lands and starting loads in Lapua brass with VV N140 powder are well established by Lapua. Currently available D166 ammo mikes out at 0.3090 (don't care that sellers claim 0.310). Probably why loads tend to need a little more powder to get the same velocity as published by Lapua.

    As Ken states, these rifles should be 0.310. Mine are.

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    Also depends if it was an early (1926-1927) Tikka. These barrels had variable bores, and are marked as such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krieger8201 View Post
    Also depends if it was an early (1926-1927) Tikka. These barrels had variable bores, and are marked as such.

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    You're right! I made the assumption the OP was talking about a 43/44 Tikka M30.



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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    If you are going to load for competition why not use the Lapua D166 bullet these rifles are chambered for. Nothing else is going to get close to the lands and starting loads in Lapua brass with VV N140 powder are well established by Lapua. Currently available D166 ammo mikes out at 0.3090 (don't care that sellers claim 0.310). Probably why loads tend to need a little more powder to get the same velocity as published by Lapua.

    As Ken states, these rifles should be 0.310. Mine are.

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    Well first of all the D166 are over $0.50 per bullet and they are tricky to load. Where do you get a 310 expander?

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    Forster has appropriate expanders for these bullets. In fact they sell them individually. What neck tension do you want? Need to account for brass springback after sizing.


    Loading for competition isn't cheap. OP said that is his intent.

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    I load for long range and accuracy loads original spec D166 exclusively. Let me tell you that I have yet to find a Finnish Mosin that doesn't shoot this load well. I have 12 and they all like it. And the best part about it is that the sights are factory calibrated yo this load perfectly.
    To anyone asking about a .310 expander, well I got mine when I bought a Lee 7.62x39 die set. It came with both .308 and .310 expanders.
    BTW there is no such trick to loading D166. It has a cannelure so OAL is not a problem considering the rifle in question has a "D" chamber. I pull regular Russian surplus ammo and load my D166 in surplus primed cases and have VERY low SD and groups are tiny. My favorite load by far. Great advice from LMyer.


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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    If you are going to load for competition why not use the Lapua D166 bullet these rifles are chambered for. Nothing else is going to get close to the lands and starting loads in Lapua brass with VV N140 powder are well established by Lapua. Currently available D166 ammo mikes out at 0.3090 (don't care that sellers claim 0.310). Probably why loads tend to need a little more powder to get the same velocity as published by Lapua.

    As Ken states, these rifles should be 0.310. Mine are.

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    Most people find the accuracy node well past the published max load so careful load testing is critical. IMO well worth both the expense and effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    If you are going to load for competition why not use the Lapua D166 bullet these rifles are chambered for. Nothing else is going to get close to the lands and starting loads in Lapua brass with VV N140 powder are well established by Lapua. Currently available D166 ammo mikes out at 0.3090 (don't care that sellers claim 0.310). Probably why loads tend to need a little more powder to get the same velocity as published by Lapua.

    As Ken states, these rifles should be 0.310. Mine are.
    Agreed. For some reason Vihtavuori has set the max load for the D-166 and N140 really low. All you probably get is sooty brass and low velocity. For my Tigr with short barrel and 1/12" twist this was not even enough to fully stabilize the bullet. Groups were about 8" at 100m. It all changed when the powder charge was increased.

    For .309-.310" Mosin-Nagants I now use 2.80 or 2.85 grams of N140 which is pretty much the Army standard load.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CH View Post
    Agreed. For some reason Vihtavuori has set the max load for the D-166 and N140 really low. All you probably get is sooty brass and low velocity. For my Tigr with short barrel and 1/12" twist this was not even enough to fully stabilize the bullet. Groups were about 8" at 100m. It all changed when the powder charge was increased.

    For .309-.310" Mosin-Nagants I now use 2.80 or 2.85 grams of N140 which is pretty much the Army standard load.
    Hi CH!!!! Actually I was wanting to ask you about your D46 N140 Lapua brass load for a 0.3085 bore 28/30 with uncut chamber. I finally got one and have never shot it yet. Also what bullet diameter have you found for D46 you are using?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontePR View Post
    I load for long range and accuracy loads original spec D166 exclusively. Let me tell you that I have yet to find a Finnish Mosin that doesn't shoot this load well. I have 12 and they all like it. And the best part about it is that the sights are factory calibrated yo this load perfectly.
    To anyone asking about a .310 expander, well I got mine when I bought a Lee 7.62x39 die set. It came with both .308 and .310 expanders.
    BTW there is no such trick to loading D166. It has a cannelure so OAL is not a problem considering the rifle in question has a "D" chamber. I pull regular Russian surplus ammo and load my D166 in surplus primed cases and have VERY low SD and groups are tiny. My favorite load by far. Great advice from LMyer.


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    My .311 Sierras 174s shoot great at .36/ea, but I'll give it a go again with those D166. Maybe the light powder charge was my issue.

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    I have found CH to be a wealth of information regarding Finnish Mosins and their ammo!!! There is no BS or confusion in what he says!

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    The D166 bullets definitely hurt the wallet but when they work you'll be all smiles


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    Quote Originally Posted by CH View Post
    Agreed. For some reason Vihtavuori has set the max load for the D-166 and N140 really low. All you probably get is sooty brass and low velocity. For my Tigr with short barrel and 1/12" twist this was not even enough to fully stabilize the bullet. Groups were about 8" at 100m. It all changed when the powder charge was increased.

    For .309-.310" Mosin-Nagants I now use 2.80 or 2.85 grams of N140 which is pretty much the Army standard load.
    Right on. I wasn't having adequate case forming till I believe very close to max load. If not right at max. I was beginning to think I was doing something very wrong when initially developing my first loads with N140. When you reap what you sowed the benefits are huge. I couldn't believe how my B Barrel was grouping with them @100m.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontePR View Post
    Right on. I wasn't having adequate case forming till I believe very close to max load. If not right at max. I was beginning to think I was doing something very wrong when initially developing my first loads with N140. When you reap what you sowed the benefits are huge. I couldn't believe how my B Barrel was grouping with them @100m.

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    What powder charge worked for you

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    Quote Originally Posted by krieger8201 View Post
    Also depends if it was an early (1926-1927) Tikka. These barrels had variable bores, and are marked as such.

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    He is talking about Finnish made 91/30's only made in 1943 and 1944 not M91's made by the Finns 25 to 27. Most of my Finnish made 91/30's again made only in 1943 and 1944 shoot regular surplus ammo very accurately with no troubles. Bill
    zeebill live from the hills of West Virginia!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustro79 View Post
    What powder charge worked for you

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    I need to check my load data when I get home. I'll pm you cause it's a bit passed published max. I'll also show you the group pics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MontePR View Post
    I need to check my load data when I get home. I'll pm you cause it's a bit passed published max. I'll also show you the group pics.

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    Thanks, it will be hard to beat the Sierras over 45gr of Varget. This is from a competition, 53 shots off bags at 100yds with Sierra .311 174gr. That's factoring in barrel heating and the stresses of a competition. Many people will post cherry-picked 3-shot groups. (if cherry-picking under ideal conditions on a lead sled I can show you some 10 shot groups that are 1.5 inches across.)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustro79 View Post
    Thanks, it will be hard to beat the Sierras over 45gr of Varget. This is from a competition, 53 shots off bags at 100yds with Sierra .311 174gr. That's factoring in barrel heating and the stresses of a competition. Many people will post cherry-picked 3-shot groups. (if cherry-picking under ideal conditions on a lead sled I can show you some 10 shot groups that are 1.5 inches across.)


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    Good job!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustro79 View Post
    Thanks, it will be hard to beat the Sierras over 45gr of Varget. This is from a competition, 53 shots off bags at 100yds with Sierra .311 174gr. That's factoring in barrel heating and the stresses of a competition. Many people will post cherry-picked 3-shot groups. (if cherry-picking under ideal conditions on a lead sled I can show you some 10 shot groups that are 1.5 inches across.)


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    10 shots off a leadsled @100m is actually the proper way to test for repeatable accuracy. I shoot 5 10 shot groups and verify the average mean radius of all 50 shots. THAT'S how accuracy of a rifle is measured. Great job on that shoot. What was the distance?

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    Sorry 100 yds didn't read lol.

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    Thanks to all for the information; yes I was talking about the Tikka M30s made in 1943 and 1944. I have several Sierra 174gn .311 match bullets on hand along with IMR 4064 and Varget. Currently I have no D166 bullets on hand but would be willing to try some. I will be using the rifle and load on silhouettes out to 550 meters. Again thanks to all for the great information.

    PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    Hi CH!!!! Actually I was wanting to ask you about your D46 N140 Lapua brass load for a 0.3085 bore 28/30 with uncut chamber. I finally got one and have never shot it yet. Also what bullet diameter have you found for D46 you are using?
    Well hello, Les!

    Nothing special in there really, just 2.95 grams of N140 for the 12 gram D-46. COL is usually about 76.2mm. Brass is either Lapua or SO berdan type with RWS primers. Still use the same rifle, a 1933 m/28-30 which measured 7.63/7.84mm three years ago. I've shot maybe 4000-5000 rounds through it and D-166 doesn't chamber yet. Big boys say it will do that eventually.

    I would like to use 7.85mm bullets for this one but ran out of them a few years ago and now we're forced to stick with current production which all is 7.83mm. Decades ago the D-46 was available from 7.83mm to 7.88mm but now you can only dream of that.

    Usually this combo and prone with sling yields over 90 points with 10 rounds at 100m if I don't screw up.


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    Great job CH and thanks much for the info. I've never yet done prone with a sling - only benchrest. I'm sure it is another world of difficulty. I probably should try it! What is the target pictured

    Sounds like your 28/30 measured just like mine does. 0.300/0.3085 = 7.62/7.84. It will not chamber D166 ammo made for my M28/76 with ASEV1 barrel.

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    Last edited by LMyer; 03-29-2017 at 01:59 PM.
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    Thanks. The target is ISSF 25 metre pistol target. Diameter of the 10 ring is 50mm and and niner is 100mm. The black dot is 200mm.

    Big respect to Gustro79's group above. Ten round grops of 1.5" with open sights sound phenomenal!

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    The local guys are scared to shoot against my M28/76 in the Military match we have each month in the Summer. We shall see how they like shooting against a M28/30. I hope it shoots as well as the M28/76!! It might but sights on 28/76 are far superior and my old eyes will have more trouble seeing (even with stick on my glasses "Eye-pal" to look through)

    I think it's pretty funny that Garand shooters are scared of an old Mosin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    I think it's pretty funny that Garand shooters are scared of an old Mosin.
    Haha, now that's funny. Reminds me of old legend about Aimo Lahti being questioned by the Allied Control Commission (Soviet) soon after the war. When he saw the soldiers guarding him armed with KP-31 SMGs he said to the interrogating politruk "Are they not trusting their weapons anymore?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by CH View Post
    Thanks. The target is ISSF 25 metre pistol target. Diameter of the 10 ring is 50mm and and niner is 100mm. The black dot is 200mm.

    Big respect to Gustro79's group above. Ten round grops of 1.5" with open sights sound phenomenal!
    Here is a .8" 5-shot group and a 2" 10-shot group. The 1.5" 10-shot is laying around somewhere. It didn't take a lot of tries to get these. This was just from a run-of-the-mill Sako M39 that had a somewhat-worn barrel.(Lands were rounded.) Load data is in the 5-shot pic.


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    A long time ago with my first Tikka M30.
    This load was only good at 100 yards. 150 grain softpoints and very light Varget load. Unusually good results that day. Usually shot around 1MOA for 5 shots. I liked the post and globe front sight on this one.



    Here's a 10 shot with same rifle and load

    All off of benchrest but no lead sled.



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    Last edited by LMyer; 03-29-2017 at 05:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMyer View Post
    A long time ago with my first Tikka M30.
    This load was only good at 100 yards. 150 grain softpoints and very light Varget load. Unusually good results that day. Usually shot around 1MOA for 5 shots. I liked the post and globe front sight on this one.



    Here's a 10 shot with same rifle and load

    All off of benchrest but no lead sled.



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    Nice!

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    Last edited by Gustro79; 03-29-2017 at 06:16 PM.

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    Excellent shooting!
    Looking for PU scope number 10062. See post http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...light=pashutr3

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    1944 Tikka M91-30. Believe it or not the usually finicky Finns put the rear sight on slightly crooked, off right. Does not affect it's accuracy though.
    Very simple-45 grs. IMR 4895, PPU brass, CCI large rifle and Sierra .311 150gr. Spitzer (flat base) number 2300. Every .311 Mosin I have likes this load. The Tikka LOVES it.
    Watch Midway the 2300's go on sale once in a while.
    Good luck in the competition, the Tikka can show 'em a thing or two.
    Attachment 2099290Attachment 2099298

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    Thanks for the info; I have had very good luck with IMR powders in the past, mostly 4064. Got some cases prepped and hope to try a couple loads this weekend.
    Looking for PU scope number 10062. See post http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...light=pashutr3

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    My B barrel M39 will shoot 1 inch or less with out of the box Privi ammo. I have a scout scope on it because of my old eyes just aren't up to the job of using iron sights, glaucoma. I have a 43 Tikka 9`-30 that is almost as accurate. Getting old is hell, don't go there.....chris I am 73 BTW.

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    Little OT maybe but do you use any foolproof tricks to track your brass when you have new brass and then again those reloaded random times? For 7.62x53R cartridges I've found an automatic center punch to be very handy. Whenever a case is sized a punch mark is added to the rim. Now you know all the time what your brass has gone through and mixing them to ease reloading doesn't hurt.

    Here is some decapped Sako berdan brass made in the 1970s which has been resized four times. They started to look pretty dated and tense so I polished them and annealed the necks. Now they seem a lot nicer. When the cases are sized for the fifth time I think to punch the mark to slightly different location to ID it is the first sizing after annealing.

    Last edited by CH; 04-18-2017 at 01:48 PM.

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    That is a novel idea CH.
    Now officially collecting Mosin M38s!

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    That is a great idea!! I was wondering how I was going to achieve keeping track of my 30/40 Krag brass.

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    I like it too. Good idea! I once tried filing little notches in the rim for same purpose, but soon gave it up as I didn't like the way the brass looked and felt with multiple notches - and I started putting a marker tally mark on the plastic storage case each set of 20 was kept in.
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    Great idea! I was digging through some brass a week ago wondering how many times it had been loaded as I had failed to put it back in the box after firing. ( I normally mark the box with the number of times loaded )
    Looking for PU scope number 10062. See post http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...light=pashutr3

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