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Thread: Which cheap AR rifle is best?

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    What say you all to Windham as a brand name?
    I found a local gun shop that has one marked down from $880 to $680..
    If memory serves, these guys have a good rep, right?
    Absolutely, Wyndham is what Bushmaster used to be, same plant. Same guns, before Remington/freedom bought Bushmaster

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  2. #47
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    Not trying to indulge in that but when I see a $200 price drop on a new in the box rifle which brings it down to almost the same as the starter level dpms and others, I thought it might be worth a mention.

  3. #48
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    Just went over 1000 rounds thru my Wyndham. Never a hiccup. And although I rarely shoot them, it has no problem with cheap steel case ammo. Solid choice.
    MAK9MM

    "I reject your reality and substitute my own."
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  5. #49
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    Steel case ammo compatibility is a definite plus, love it or hate it, it's the cheapest way to go.

  6. #50
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    Org. Bushmasters I have two.
    Rock River I have one.
    Custom build on Areo reciever top components a year ago,,dealers prices.
    Anderson pistol ar.
    On used market... lots of (low fire counts) name top brand AR's....(because of ammo prices last few years.)
    Areo brownells no stocks build up as you desire.
    Prices have fallen new below $475!
    What else could you want, compaired to years back when we, or some paid for the same things at extreme prices if you didn't position yourself correctly.

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyman1903 View Post
    Chas,

    deal of the day,

    CDNN S&W with goodies,

    some will poo poo the 1:9 twist, but it will do what you need it to do up to 69grs,

    https://www.cdnnsports.com/smith-wes...stom-pack.html

    I just went thru everything on this thread. I spend days on the net researching, going to the store and looking, handling, etc. At the range I talked to folks, I talked to officers at the local gunshop that is also the police an fire supply store. After all was said and done I pretty much had decided that for the "budget" ar-15 needs that the S&W Sport II was the best of the bunch.

    I came close to buying one, a guy at the range let me shoot his, all of it was good. Now that being said I ended up getting significantly more for a pistol that I was trading in and adding that money went with a Colt LE6920MPS, but if that had not been the case, the Sport II would have been in my safe right now. I also add that almost all the best deals on ammo right now is for 55gr, so that would be ideal for the 1:9 twist of the S&W.

    Howard

  8. #52
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    REMEMBER a pistol is only so you can fight your way to a bigger gun that you should have had in the first place. Think this is a Clint Smith of Thunder ranch saying.

  9. #53
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    I like it, I only keep one firearm out of the safe and it's a 9mm.
    Would love to have the 12 gauge and 308 nearby but it's too much work to load long guns back into the safe whenever we get the urge to hop in the car and scoot to wallyworld..

  10. #54
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    YES even I only carry a Glock 40 cal pistola around locale.But on the road a 12 gauge shotgun.
    BUT NOT while I am hear working in California.I have to leave them in AZ the home of the free.Here you just take your unarmed chances.Look what happened in Fresno this week.NOT one armed person to stop the mass shooting.This is every day here in the Fresno area just one or more shooting on the news every day.This for a state with strict gun laws so NO ONE except the law breakers can defend them self.
    I do not understand why anyone would want to liver here.I was born and raised here and left when I turned 18 in 1953 because you never ask how stupid the state government was cause they would turn around and show you by give,give,give to people that did not want to work and TAX,TAX,TAX the ones that did and 64 years latter it is still the same.Since light travels faster than sound to some the state government appears bright until you hear them speak
    Just cause trouble comes visiting doesn't mean you have to offer it a place to sit down

  11. #55
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    2# 38's, one 45.
    Get yourself Single barrel shotgun full choke Iver Johnson, with number # 5 steel shot, will,cover an hall way completely
    It's not very expensive not a great loss...if stolen .
    5 shells on stretchy oshell holder around stock..with 5# ready.
    is a great alternative><> Dan

  12. #56
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    best cheap AR, i'd say S+W MP for name brand then psa for kit gun. they both work. and now that you can get a Colt under 600, why not go for it?
    " Dude with a pencil is worse than a cat with a machinegun"... Bo Diddley

  13. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DK PHILLIPS View Post
    2# 38's, one 45.
    Get yourself Single barrel shotgun full choke Iver Johnson, with number # 5 steel shot, will,cover an hall way completely
    It's not very expensive not a great loss...if stolen .
    5 shells on stretchy oshell holder around stock..with 5# ready.
    is a great alternative><> Dan
    Shotgun pellets spread about 1 inch per yard of travel, little less with a full choke a 25 foot hallway ( 8 yards+) full choke the pattern will be about 7-8 inches round.. you can miss on both sides of most people standing at the end of that hallway only 4 inches round halfway down the hallway.. at that distance you have to aim.

    https://www.hunter-ed.com/montana/st...027_700048225/

    Some testing especially with shorter barreled more modern tactical type shotguns and more modern ammo ( plastic sleeve wads ) and modern science where effort has been put into designing ammo effective at longer ranges .. only get bout half that spread http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ttern-spreads/ here they have my 25 foot hallway only allowing 5" of spread or less..

    Just saying, got to know the facts and performance data to use weapons effectively .
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  14. #58
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    Back when I murdered doves, before each season's first hunt we would set up a sheet of plywood and shoot our shotguns at it from various distances to remind us of how #8 shot behaved at each distance..surprising results for sure...

  15. #59
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    Heavy Steel doors and frame of steel....dead bolted reinforced in frame, Locked door knob....reinforced hinges!
    My Hall 6 yards long less than two yards wide.... way is back lite very well
    ....ill have time to see and aim...with all the noise I'm sure.
    Alarms, camers most dramatic entry and a fairly certain ending!
    Suggestion wasn't for me...a cheep pump maverick shotgun $130 bucks....better threat..
    or a single barrel back up according to your ability to pay?
    modified or cylinder bore may rightfully be better....
    "your correct just a mindless monument!"
    I live on a dead end country street..
    well lite, driving past only one other (police officer) house.
    Up on 4 story high hill,
    no place to trun away or around ...
    crowding past my two vehicles...
    You dont have the room... To turn around ....
    over the hill only escapee....NOT....!

    I have an assault mossy pump ....by my bed.Attachment 2185402 Take your pick.
    loaded with custom loaded 2 inch (standard velocity) defensive shells, # 3's buck shot....I could miss? Na!

  16. #60
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    If I still loaded 12 gauge I would favor rock salt and maybe mix it with broken glass..

  17. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    If I still loaded 12 gauge I would favor rock salt and maybe mix it with broken glass..
    If you are going to use lethal force, first you really need to fear for your life, and second you really need to use lethal force.. you don't play around firing a 12 gauge thinking it's cute to load the backside of somebody's blue jeans with Rock salt, that went out 70-80 years ago

    But hey, I won't be the one standing trial.. you be you, and you do what you think best.
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  18. #62
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    I agree, if you have to shoot at humans, shoot to kill.
    " Dude with a pencil is worse than a cat with a machinegun"... Bo Diddley

  19. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    If I still loaded 12 gauge I would favor rock salt and maybe mix it with broken glass..
    Hay you should be down on Willie Nelson Blvd celebrating his 84 th Birthday.BUT I have a feeling you might not be a real Texan or Willie Nelson fan.
    Did you learn about rock salt in a 12 gauge from stealing water melons as a kid? It is out now but was common as cornbread 70 year ago.
    Last edited by repaircraftsvc; 04-29-2017 at 05:06 PM.
    THERE ARE THREE KIND OF MEN: THE ONES THAT LEARN BY READING.THE FEW WHO LEARN BY OBSERVATION. THE REST OF THEM HAVE TO PEE ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE,

  20. #64
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    You are correct sir I am not a REAL Texan, only been here since 1956 but as they say, I got here as soon as I could (or as soon as my Pa got a job at Texas Instruments in Dallas designing the Shrike missile system).
    As to Willie, I did attend his first giant outdoor concert at Luckenback in 1972, but I got so sunburned and drank so much shiner bock the experience could never be topped so I quit going.
    I'm not a fan to speak of but he sure has some good songs out there..
    Rock salt and broken glass is better than killing somebody (that needs shooting but not killing..)

  21. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    You are correct sir I am not a REAL Texan, only been here since 1956 but as they say, I got here as soon as I could (or as soon as my Pa got a job at Texas Instruments in Dallas designing the Shrike missile system).
    As to Willie, I did attend his first giant outdoor concert at Luckenback in 1972, but I got so sunburned and drank so much shiner bock the experience could never be topped so I quit going.
    Rock salt and broken glass is better than killing somebody (that needs shooting but not killing..)
    Me either the Air Force sent me to Amarillo in 1953 and I took to Texas like a hog to persimmons. My kids where born there and still live there. Texas was our home base for 30+ years while I worked all over the world.I found AZ sweeter than stolen honey for me when sent there by a Texas Comp.
    Shiner beer still fine as frog fur,I still get it in AZ from time to time along with a Willie show.BUT I can always get Willies roadhouse on satellite radio,even the chickens under the porch like that. With some luck I hope to get down the road a piece to Luckenbach again.
    We sure have two different buckets of possums about shooting someone. If I NEED to shoot someone they need killin. No jackin one into the 12 gauge to scare them, no warning shots, if it comes to shooting things have already gone to hell in a hand basket and it's as serious as the business end of a 12 gauge,to late for all that BS, it's killin time.
    You can ride all the way to Big Springs on that.
    THERE ARE THREE KIND OF MEN: THE ONES THAT LEARN BY READING.THE FEW WHO LEARN BY OBSERVATION. THE REST OF THEM HAVE TO PEE ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE,

  22. #66
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    I did too...all my spent primers, rifle, pistol shot gun..
    I loaded in shotgun shells...nasty, dirty, cruddy, cookie cutters...just to use them up and recycled.
    For old single barreled shotgun I had...
    Half a coffee can almost used up once...
    nasty "TOP HATS" results on targets sheets....15 yards
    humans?

  23. #67
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    I don't think there is such a thing as someone who needs shooting but doesn't need killing. Just my opinion, and of course, your mileage may vary.
    Regards, Alan K.
    Available for Cabinet level positions, consultation on matters of foreign policy, weddings and bar-mitzvahs. Will work for gold or guns.

  24. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by IamElmerJFudd View Post
    I don't think there is such a thing as someone who needs shooting but doesn't need killing. Just my opinion, and of course, your mileage may vary.
    Excuse me,this is really illustrative and interesting.Your right.I am as confused as goat on Astro Turf about it. Maybe it has something to do with being in the outhouse when lighting struck.
    THERE ARE THREE KIND OF MEN: THE ONES THAT LEARN BY READING.THE FEW WHO LEARN BY OBSERVATION. THE REST OF THEM HAVE TO PEE ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE,

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    Quote Originally Posted by repaircraftsvc View Post
    Excuse me,this is really illustrative and interesting.Your right.I am as confused as goat on Astro Turf about it. Maybe it has something to do with being in the outhouse when lighting struck.
    There's a lack of understanding amongst the younger crowd today of the term: "Use of Deadly Force". Training is to aim for center of body mass. The idea is to induce fatality post haste. To merely 'wing' your opponent or shoot the gun out of his hand without being lethal was the stuff old cowboy movies were made of.
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
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  26. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by repaircraftsvc View Post
    Me either the Air Force sent me to Amarillo in 1953 and I took to Texas like a hog to persimmons. My kids where born there and still live there. Texas was our home base for 30+ years while I worked all over the world.I found AZ sweeter than stolen honey for me when sent there by a Texas Comp.
    Shiner beer still fine as frog fur,I still get it in AZ from time to time along with a Willie show.BUT I can always get Willies roadhouse on satellite radio,even the chickens under the porch like that. With some luck I hope to get down the road a piece to Luckenbach again.
    We sure have two different buckets of possums about shooting someone. If I NEED to shoot someone they need killin. No jackin one into the 12 gauge to scare them, no warning shots, if it comes to shooting things have already gone to hell in a hand basket and it's as serious as the business end of a 12 gauge,to late for all that BS, it's killin time.
    You can ride all the way to Big Springs on that.
    I agree. There seems to be a lack of understanding amongst the younger crowd today of the term: "Use of Deadly Force". Training is to aim for center of body mass. The idea is to induce fatality post haste. To merely 'wing' your opponent or shoot the gun out of his hand without being lethal was the stuff old cowboy movies were made of.
    "Hey Look! We've got Guns ... and We've got Snacks!"
    - Cdr. Samuel "Sam" Axe, USN, (ret) -

  27. #71
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    "Deadly Force" is by it's very name and definition, very likely to result in death.

    That is it's purpose, and it is to be used for that purpose when, as a last resort, something really really bad can't be stopped or prevented by any less force.

    Now, whether the thing that needs to be stopped so badly that it needs shot, whether it dies or not is secondary to it needing stopped from it's activity, but, if deadly force is used effectively, whatever gets shot is very likely to die.

    Thus, something that has to be shot, SHOULD NOT BE something that does not need to be killed.

    If something doesn't need to be killed, then it shouldn't get shot, or should get shot with something "less lethal" (which, as it's name states, MIGHT just kill it anyhow).

    The problem for you Rock Salt and Broken Glass people is this:
    That Gauge full of salt and glass is STILL "deadly force", and always will be.
    If something is such a danger it needs killed, killing it is actually legally sanctioned and is caused by their own actions harming a person, physically.
    Something (someone) that 'doesn't need killed'.......... you are NOT going to find any legal protection for deliberately maiming it(them).
    I don't always venture out into the sub-freezing darkness, but when I do, it is hunting season, and I carry a Browning. Stay hungry my friends.

  28. #72
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    Who says rock salt and broken glass won't kill?
    The salt makes it hurt worse and the broken glass is invisible on x-rays so the doc can't dig it out.
    Not that I would ever do it on purpose that is..

  29. #73
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    frown

    http://www.cdnnsports.com/media/wysi...CDNN2017-1.pdf

    This whole book shows great examples of how "everything gun related, parts, uppers are bottoming out!
    our time, values invested and accumulated collections....has taken hits in price drops.

    So back to topic:
    "JUST TURN THE PAGES AND PICK YOUR PRICE RANGE OF $600 to $650..."
    Get comfort in Remembering I, others bought the same guns, uppers 2 to 3 X's higher in price.

    This company is my go to, to, plan farther buys.....
    And when saleing knowing I'm going to at a loss if others are aware of these prices! ><> Dan

  30. #74
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    Sorry that this thread has got off course about cheap ARs. BUT the use of DEADLY FORCE is not to be taken with a grain of salt and glass
    As for me I am not going to risk my life in a a DEADLY FORCE fight on ANY cheap gun since many are as useful as a trap door on a canoe.Cheap is OK to shoot beer cans with, BUT not when you have to use DEADLY FORCE to save your ass, it is reliability ,good mined set, good shooting skill that will keep you from being the dead guy.You don't have time to worry if your cheap gun is going to let you down.Boot hill is full of fellows who pulled the trigger without aiming.
    If you climb in the saddle, be ready to ride, DEADLY FORCE is a last resort not the first and after the shooting stop there will be a price to pay with the law, lawyers and in your mined.
    Sticking to your guns is fine,if you don't get shot in the back.
    Last edited by repaircraftsvc; 04-30-2017 at 10:44 AM.
    THERE ARE THREE KIND OF MEN: THE ONES THAT LEARN BY READING.THE FEW WHO LEARN BY OBSERVATION. THE REST OF THEM HAVE TO PEE ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE,

  31. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    Who says rock salt and broken glass won't kill?
    The salt makes it hurt worse and the broken glass is invisible on x-rays so the doc can't dig it out.
    Not that I would ever do it on purpose that is..
    Umm, glass can be seen in an X-ray.

    Don't believe me:

    Glass in the Hand and Foot
    Will an X-ray Film Show It?

    Dan Tandberg, MD

    http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama...bstract/378719

    After reading the OPs posts with his views on deadly force, perhaps, he should reconsider firearms ownership.
    Fine Print:
    The preceeding opinion should be considered only as an opinion and not legal advice. In no event will the poster, Unbekannt, be held liable to any party for any damages arising in any way out of the availability, use, reliance on or inability to use poster's opinion or any information provided by or through the poster, or for any claim attributable to errors, omissions or other inaccuracies in, or destructive properties of any information provided by or through the poster.

  32. #76
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    Aw shucks, another urban myth shattered..now what am I going to do with all these coke bottles..

  33. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by chasdev View Post
    Aw shucks, another urban myth shattered..now what am I going to do with all these coke bottles..
    Put them in your blunnderbuss and shoot them to California and collect the CRV,or murder some dove with them.
    But if you get in trouble in heaven for it,you'l have to go to God,cause there ain't no lawyers there.
    THERE ARE THREE KIND OF MEN: THE ONES THAT LEARN BY READING.THE FEW WHO LEARN BY OBSERVATION. THE REST OF THEM HAVE TO PEE ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE,

  34. #78
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    Save the coke bottles for making trip wire noise makers around your bug out camp. Or for those mornings in the hunting blinds when it's too cold to go outside to pee. If you do that second one make sure all your drinking cokes are in cans so you don't get them mixed up in the dark.
    Regards, Alan K.
    Available for Cabinet level positions, consultation on matters of foreign policy, weddings and bar-mitzvahs. Will work for gold or guns.

  35. #79
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    The Smith & Wesson AR keeps coming up a solid choice by many here, just saying.
    Last edited by milprileb; 05-01-2017 at 07:44 PM.

  36. #80
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    When $$$ as tight as a wet boot,drive rebar in the ground put coke bottle on it and rap your electric fence wire around it. handy as a rope at a hanging and it can keep the hogs in or bad guy'out.
    Since this thread is about CHEAP ARs don't forget to bring it just incase you happen to see a wild hog
    THERE ARE THREE KIND OF MEN: THE ONES THAT LEARN BY READING.THE FEW WHO LEARN BY OBSERVATION. THE REST OF THEM HAVE TO PEE ON THE ELECTRIC FENCE,

  37. #81
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    now AR's used bringing $385.
    a mixed breed of top company names, unknow parts, uppers, lowers..lengths.
    Most in new like conditions shot very little ...during the scare and ammo shortages.
    Get what ever cheep....then put new extra upper of your choice, quality....
    If you have the eye, a little knowledge will go a long way with less dollars.

    Off topic.
    (I have about 8 large musket rat steel traps "sharpened" ...
    Can be placed in shallow, wide, leaf covered pits... In a round common paths...
    The invaders becomes the alarm!
    Also Have a bucket of different size, rusty fish hooks...found in building during the flood.
    can be string thigh to face high...
    invisable across a mix of biers, weeds, brush in approaching paths.
    Who needs electrify fences?
    .with a few pungy sticks in pits will cause much concern....night or day defence.)

  38. #82
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    It's funny seeing sks rifles for more money than a lot of used AR's

  39. #83
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    Prices keep coming down. Just saw that CDNN was selling the DPMS Oracle for $400 and Bushmaster for $500. Some bargains to be had now.

  40. #84
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    Those are the prices after the rebates, but still, I don't think you can build one much cheaper and I think the resale value will always be higher on factory guns than you'll get on any home built piece. Unless there's another gun ban panic.
    Regards, Alan K.
    Available for Cabinet level positions, consultation on matters of foreign policy, weddings and bar-mitzvahs. Will work for gold or guns.

  41. #85
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    As of 24 May 17, this is what I see:

    a. $500 for a Ruger or S&W AR carbine
    b. $450 for a great 1:7 or 1:8 barrel twist build kit from PSA and $50 Anderson receiver (now on sale for $30 at Prmary arms today)
    c. $400 for a DPMS Oracle or Bear Creek carbine. If wisely shopped, you can buy
    1:9 barrel upper from Midway (AR Stoner) and build out a M4 carbine for perhaps a few bucks shy of $400.

    Basically its $400 to $500...you choose what you want...barrel twist...barrel profile and go down the name brand road, build road or jump on the very basic carbines at $400 .

    If you are waiting for prices to drop further, I'd think again. The gun market will absorb the surplus AR's now being sold and when that inventory is gone, prices will start to climb again.

    Now is now....snooze ya lose. You need a AR..NOW!!!

  42. #86
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    smile

    I think prices can maintain till fall.
    With people bought up,at highest prices and can't recoup invested money.
    with so many and much sitting in ware houses....
    Companies dumping, dropping prices like old days "gas wars"..
    We will see many name brands AR company's go bankrupt absorbing losses...
    Afterwards all this falling apart is when prices will go up.

    Right now people can buy uppers, as you say cheep for any duty thought of!
    So lots money is flowing toward sales of ars parts uppers, not from political fears..
    just low prices ....
    not a lot of room for profit in gun trading or saleing ARs.....in my circle of gun shows, flea markets.....

    It is what it is the calm before the next crises driven binge!

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