Was this rifle owned by a member?
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  1. #1
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    Default Was this rifle owned by a member?

    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/633658499

    The description says it was owned by a Mosin Collector.

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    Interesting that the gun doesn't appear to be "CN" marked. I have heard that not all Finnish Tula snipers were but all the ones I have seen that are legit have been. The stock is incorrect but an easy enough fix.

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    Not mine; I would have bid if it went a bit cheaper as I need a 36 dated sniper for the collection. I couldn't tell by the pictures but it looked almost like the date was originally 35 and over stamped to 36. Look forward to seeing better pictures of it it a member got it.
    Looking for PU scope number 10062. See post http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...light=pashutr3

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    It's 35 over stamped to 36 indeed. I'll post better pics when I receive it
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAshutr3 View Post
    Not mine; I would have bid if it went a bit cheaper as I need a 36 dated sniper for the collection. I couldn't tell by the pictures but it looked almost like the date was originally 35 and over stamped to 36. Look forward to seeing better pictures of it it a member got it.

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    Congrats; I knew a couple members were bidding but never checked the ended auction. Sharp rifle; look forward to your pictures!
    Looking for PU scope number 10062. See post http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...light=pashutr3

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBulge75 View Post
    Interesting that the gun doesn't appear to be "CN" marked. I have heard that not all Finnish Tula snipers were but all the ones I have seen that are legit have been. The stock is incorrect but an easy enough fix.
    Interesting indeed, but Finns are known to swap barrels as well. Stock appears to be post-war russian refurb stock.

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    wouldn't it be very unreasonable from Finns to re-barrel sniper receiver that most likely already had mount and scope installed at the time of capture with regular 91/30 Russian barrel vs their own sniper barrel? Either way I guess I'll know more when I see the tang) Stock is the least of my worries
    Quote Originally Posted by eyesis View Post
    Interesting indeed, but Finns are known to swap barrels as well. Stock appears to be post-war russian refurb stock.

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    Mike I don't see anywhere in the description that it was owned by a mosin collector unless I'm missing smth
    Quote Originally Posted by mjmd View Post
    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/633658499

    The description says it was owned by a Mosin Collector.

  10. #9
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    Hello,

    can't wait to see it when you post pics, I truly believe this is not a 1936 rifle and it is a 1935 rifle as no reported 1936 rifle has been under the 32,000 range in 1935 several in the 9,000-12,000 serial range so a 10,000 serial range fits right in. will be nice if a 1936 : )

    Later
    Vaughn99
    Tula 91/30 Ex-Snipers WANTED!!!!!!! See List Below
    Zeiss Type Any Date
    Walther Type Any Date
    1932 PE, Top Mount, Hex Receiver
    1933 PE, Top Mount, Hex Receiver
    1936 PE, Top Mount, Round Receiver
    1938 PE, Top Mount СП Marked
    1938 PE, Top Mount Siege Built
    1939 PE, Top Mount СП Marked
    1939 PE, Top Mount Siege Built
    1940 PE, Top Mount Siege Built
    1943 PE, Top Mount Siege Built

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    Mike I don't see anywhere in the description that it was owned by a mosin collector unless I'm missing smth
    I think the seller told me that in a email.I will look for it.

    Found it. I had asked Jim, the seller, about some stampings and asked for better photos .He noted in his email it was owned by a mosin collector.
    Last edited by mjmd; 04-06-2017 at 08:00 AM.

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    I don't think the number on the receiver and barrel that matches the serial is original.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    wouldn't it be very unreasonable from Finns to re-barrel sniper receiver that most likely already had mount and scope installed at the time of capture with regular 91/30 Russian barrel vs their own sniper barrel? Either way I guess I'll know more when I see the tang) Stock is the least of my worries
    Fins tore down barreled actions to salvage parts and make new barreled assemblies & complete guns. This could have happened long after the receiver was robbed of the sniper components.

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    I guess i'll know more answers when i get it. Worse comes to worse it has 3 days inspection period so i'll lose the shipping money. Part of the game, isn't it?


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    Good luck!

    I didn't see a sniper mark and so avoided it, but you may really have something there.

    Keep us in the loop!

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    The 3 digit number on the flat should not match the serial placed oddly on the bolt side. That number should match the 3 digit base number. It's also not like the other numbers in font. And the serial on the side flat of the bolt is odd. It's possible this barreled action was swapped into the post war stock and bolt added later. There were barreled actions and u-fix-em stuff that came in so maybe this is one of those.
    Last edited by Vic; 04-07-2017 at 04:27 PM.
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    "Tulta munille!"

    "Terror is not a new weapon. Throughout history it has been used by those who could not prevail, either by persuasion or example. But inevitably they fail, either because men are not afraid to die for a life worth living, or because the terrorists themselves came to realize that free men cannot be frightened by threats, and that aggression would meet its own response. And it is in the light of that history that every nation today should know, be he friend or foe, that the United States has both the will and the weapons to join free men in standing up to their responsibilities."
    John F. Kennedy

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    Vic, i'm not sure I understand which 3 digit number you mean? There's a number on the right side of hex, can't really see what it is but the last digit is 5 so it doesn't match any other numbers like it shouldn't since it's a mount number. Number on the left of hex is a 5 digit rifle serial stamped by importer. My other two finn PEs also have those. Nothing strange here. Rifle serial on the bolt flat is odd indeed (probably also put by importer) but then again it looks like it's not matching bolt to begin with. My biggest concern is whether it was re-barreled or not. If it was it's a deal breaker for me. And the only way to tell is to see the tang and barrel/receiver stake line alignment underneath.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vic View Post
    The 3 digit number on the flat should not match the serial placed oddly on the bolt side. Tgat number should match the 3 digit base number. It's also not like the other numbers. And the serial on the side flat of the bolt is odd. It's possible this barreled action was swapped into the post war stock and bolt added later. There were barreled actions and u-fix-em stuff that came in so maybe this is one of those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    Vic, i'm not sure I understand which 3 digit number you mean? There's a number on the right side of hex, can't really see what it is but the last digit is 5 so it doesn't match any other numbers like it shouldn't since it's a mount number. Number on the left of hex is a 5 digit rifle serial stamped by importer. My other two finn PEs also have those. Nothing strange here. Rifle serial on the bolt flat is odd indeed (probably also put by importer) but then again it looks like it's not matching bolt to begin with. My biggest concern is whether it was re-barreled or not. If it was it's a deal breaker for me. And the only way to tell is to see the tang and barrel/receiver stake line alignment underneath.
    absolutely not

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    Why in the world would anyone pay $1,776 on this kind of Mosin without getting many, many detailed pictures of the suspect parts (e.g., date stamp on barrel shank)? You guys have bigger balls than me.

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    First of all it has three days inspection policy second of all i lost way too many good auctions and deals in the past that in the end turned out to be what it supposed to be just because i was asking too many questions and requesting too many pictures. I also scored a lot of super rare items because i just paid, hit buy now, said " i'll take it" etc. without asking questions at all and hoped for the best. It's a game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Abulg1972 View Post
    Why in the world would anyone pay $1,776 on this kind of Mosin without getting many, many detailed pictures of the suspect parts (e.g., date stamp on barrel shank)? You guys have bigger balls than me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    First of all it has three days inspection policy second of all i lost way too many good auctions and deals in the past that in the end turned out to be what it supposed to be just because i was asking too many questions and requesting too many pictures. I also scored a lot of super rare items because i just paid, hit buy now, said " i'll take it" etc. without asking questions at all and hoped for the best. It's a game.
    i agree..

    The tang date , the taps, condition of the area where the barrel meets the receiver,and the edges and wells on the stampings, will all tell the story. 50-50..but with a three day, well worth the investment. Bought a m-40 scope in original rings that looked very marginal, green color wise, in the photos for a BIN of 1500. It is now sitting on a five digit m-70 and looks great. Sometimes you are happy, sometimes not. Roll those dice.. If legit it will look great with a base, mount and pe scope (i will help you find a correct base if you do not have one, lol)
    Last edited by mjmd; 04-08-2017 at 10:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    First of all it has three days inspection policy second of all i lost way too many good auctions and deals in the past that in the end turned out to be what it supposed to be just because i was asking too many questions and requesting too many pictures. I also scored a lot of super rare items because i just paid, hit buy now, said " i'll take it" etc. without asking questions at all and hoped for the best. It's a game.
    3 day inspection policy? What did the seller misrepresent? My guess is that you'll have a hard time getting him to honor that over buyer's remorse.
    Last edited by Abulg1972; 04-09-2017 at 05:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    First of all it has three days inspection policy second of all i lost way too many good auctions and deals in the past that in the end turned out to be what it supposed to be just because i was asking too many questions and requesting too many pictures. I also scored a lot of super rare items because i just paid, hit buy now, said " i'll take it" etc. without asking questions at all and hoped for the best. It's a game.
    How exacty would 3 day inspect policy apply? Gun was clearly advertized with non sniper marked barrel, you chose to purchase it while seller made no claims to it's originality.

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    Neither did he mention that it has replaced barrel (hopefully not, fingers crossed) Title of the ad says finn capture sniper.


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    Quote Originally Posted by eyesis View Post
    How exacty would 3 day inspect policy apply? Gun was clearly advertized with non sniper marked barrel, you chose to purchase it while seller made no claims to it's originality.
    "Mosin Nagant 1936 Finn capture sniper model"

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    Neither did he mention that it has replaced barrel (hopefully not, fingers crossed) Title of the ad says finn capture sniper.


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    One would have to have knowledge of this first. Had you asked him to confirm that it's original, he said yes, then it turns out it was replaced....only then would there be some legitimate claim.

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    eyesis, you are making it too complicated. It's not how it works)
    Quote Originally Posted by eyesis View Post
    One would have to have knowledge of this first. Had you asked him to confirm that it's original, he said yes, then it turns out it was replaced....only then would there be some legitimate claim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjmd View Post
    "Mosin Nagant 1936 Finn capture sniper model"
    Is it not that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abulg1972 View Post
    Is it not that?
    The answer to that question is about to be disclosed when better pictures are posted, when the tap spacing, depth, size, thread and newness are known, the stampings are scrutinized, and the tang date checked. We are all hoping it is.

    There is one there now that is not a Finn capture sniper, so you have to be careful when spending that kind of cash. Careful is , get a three day, inspect rifle carefully, ask friends to help confirm your opinion. Be very happy when you know you got what you paid for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    Vic, i'm not sure I understand which 3 digit number you mean? There's a number on the right side of hex, can't really see what it is but the last digit is 5 so it doesn't match any other numbers like it shouldn't since it's a mount number. Number on the left of hex is a 5 digit rifle serial stamped by importer. My other two finn PEs also have those. Nothing strange here. Rifle serial on the bolt flat is odd indeed (probably also put by importer) but then again it looks like it's not matching bolt to begin with. My biggest concern is whether it was re-barreled or not. If it was it's a deal breaker for me. And the only way to tell is to see the tang and barrel/receiver stake line alignment underneath.

    It was partially cut off in the picture- the first three of the serial number. The indicator for me would be if the area has a mating base mount number stamped on it. If so then doubt is removed.
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    John F. Kennedy

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    Quote Originally Posted by mjmd View Post
    The answer to that question is about to be disclosed when better pictures are posted, when the tap spacing, depth, size, thread and newness are known, the stampings are scrutinized, and the tang date checked. We are all hoping it is.

    There is one there now that is not a Finn capture sniper, so you have to be careful when spending that kind of cash. Careful is , get a three day, inspect rifle carefully, ask friends to help confirm your opinion. Be very happy when you know you got what you paid for.
    So, let me understand this point of view. A guy lists a rifle and includes 4 terrible pics. It's in the wrong stock and is not CN marked. He says that it's been drilled and tapped on both sides (and one pic seems to verify that). He shows a pic of an [SA] marked barrel. One pic shows a probable "6" overstamp. Someone bids $1,776 on that info and thinks that the seller is going to honor a 3-day guaranty when the buyer tears down the rifle to see if the index marks match up?

    Personally, I hope it is legit too, but I'm just not a gambling man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abulg1972 View Post
    So, let me understand this point of view. A guy lists a rifle and includes 4 terrible pics. It's in the wrong stock and is not CN marked. He says that it's been drilled and tapped on both sides (and one pic seems to verify that). He shows a pic of an [SA] marked barrel. One pic shows a probable "6" overstamp. Someone bids $1,776 on that info and thinks that the seller is going to honor a 3-day guaranty when the buyer tears down the rifle to see if the index marks match up?

    Personally, I hope it is legit too, but I'm just not a gambling man.
    I do not know what photos or other information the seller provided to others. I did not bid because of the poor photos. Others did. The sale rides on whether it is or is not a original finn sniper. probably is. which it was advertised as! I am not buying something in that range or above without inspection. That's the first clue of a problem IMO

    No three day inspection
    crap photos
    incorrect stock
    poor communication
    = no bid

    correct stock..no reservations relating to authenticity of stampings and taps, correct stock .e 3 day. I bid

    some people just do not know how to sell
    Last edited by mjmd; 04-10-2017 at 08:11 AM.

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    When I first saw this auction, I was like "I'll go 800-1000 on this." Then I saw the replacement bolt and stock. Non-marked barrel. Probably mismatched mag and buttplates. Best case scenario, its a PE barrelled that wasn't stamped, which is possible, although not common, and it does make it pretty much impossible to authenticate at a later date. Or, its got a replacement barrel too, in which case its an original receiver with nothing else. Then I put it on my watch list and moved on. As long as the buyer and seller are happy, cool. It wasn't for me.

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    I agree with all points above. I own 6 legitimate Finn capture PE/pem and have seen several dozen in person. Lots of red flags on this one.

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    Alright everyone, here's the long awaited update on the rifle, that just showed up by my door this afternoon. I tore apart the cardboard box in a Hulk mode)) and with slightly shaky hands started quickly removing that stock. After it was removed I flipped the action upside down and gotta tell you I liked what I saw. First of all it turns out to be 1934 re-stamped to 35 (not 36 like I originally thought) and the tang is stamped 34. Barrel and action are staked and the stake line is nice, straight and perfectly aligned, slightly on an angle to the right with consistent depth. That was a single and the only strike. No evidence of any other grinding and polishing.That barrel never came off that action that's for sure. Right side of the hex clearly stamped with mount serial. Who and why stamped the bolt right on top is still a mystery for me but the font is not modern that's for sure. The trigger is super nice and crisp so whoever put this bolt instead of the original didn't just drop it it. It was fitted. So far the best trigger compared to my other PE PEM and PU snipers. The bore is nice and shiny just like my other two Finn PEs that I showed in my other recent thread. Why there's no СП proof is another mystery but that just makes it more unique.
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  36. #35
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    Here is my take:

    I bought "a few" of these Finn snipers from Big Jim" when he had them long ago. He said he had a few 1934 snipers in this lot he bought and none were sniper marked...I didn't buy a 34 from him and I have never personally seen a 34 marked sniper but have at least 2 35s that are CH marked as well as 36 and so on.

    This looks like a legit 34 sniper restamped to 35 to me. Amazing what they are selling for.
    Last edited by Finn Collector; 04-13-2017 at 09:44 PM.

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    I have a 34 marked Tula Finn Sniper that is CN marked and in what I believe is an original PE stock.
    Last edited by JBulge75; 04-13-2017 at 10:03 PM.

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    Last edited by JBulge75; 04-13-2017 at 09:52 PM.

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    won't open. Says invalid link
    Quote Originally Posted by JBulge75 View Post

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    Tula started marking the barrels of snipers in 1934. So it is correct to see 34 rifles both marked and unmarked. This rifle looks like a legit PE top mount sniper. I believe that the serial number on the right side of the receiver is the original base to mount number stamped on at the factory when built as a sniper.

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    Just realized, first 91/30 snipers were issued to NKVD as early as 1928 if I remember correctly and only in 1932 to PKKA (workmen red army). only the ones issued to PKKA were marked СП and later CH. The ones issued to NKVD and other military/police ministries and departments were not. Possibly a clue why this one does'n have СП proof. Unless they just forgot to stamp it

  42. #41
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    You got a good one; glad it turned out as I figured it would! It really makes sense now with a 34 tang date. As stated above some were marked and some were not.
    Looking for PU scope number 10062. See post http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...light=pashutr3

  43. #42
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    I have a captured 34 PE that was not marked I picked up a year or two ago. I think there is a serial number range where you start to see them sniper marked that year.
    Looking for PU scope number 10062. See post http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...light=pashutr3

  44. #43
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    Nice one! I bet she goes good in an Archangel stock! 😁

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    Sure thing. Number one on my to do list😄
    Quote Originally Posted by izzytok46 View Post
    Nice one! I bet she goes good in an Archangel stock! 

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    Let's see of this works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    won't open. Says invalid link

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