PE and PEM snipers
Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: PE and PEM snipers

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    355

    Default PE and PEM snipers

    I'm trying to learn as much as possible about these rifles. I've read the short article on Mosinnagant.net, and one other one on Russian-Mosin-Nagant-Forum.com. Besides that, there is little written information besides lots of bits and pieces found in threads here.

    My biggest question is, how exactly is the rifle defined as a PE versus PEM? I understand there are top mount and side mount, and that the top mount and PE's came first. That said, I read confusing things on how people label their rifle sometimes.

    This was my current thinking: PE/PEM only defines what scope the rifle has and then the obvious physical attribute of being a top mount versus side mount? If the rifle doesn't currently have a scope, how do you define what it was?

    I believe the answer to that would be based on build date and serial range? If so, where would I find that information?

    Thank you in advance

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    845

    Default

    I define it by what mount type was used. So I classify them in production order as

    - PE Top Mount
    - PEM Top Mount
    - PEM Side Mount
    - 1942 PEM Top mounts and Side mounts built by Izhevsk and Tula

    I have never seen a PE scope on a side mount. As for information, Ratnik's book covers the 1942 rifles well. There is not a single good source for the early rifles. When Ratnik writes his new book it will contain information on earlier rifles. Until then, I have learned from researching and observing original rifles. Original matching rifles are extremely difficult to find. The next best thing are the Finn captured rifles. Much can be learned from the barrel receiver actions (which is all that is usually left). There are several good threads here that you can search for. Good luck.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    8,986

    Default

    That above pretty well sums it up.

    I have built re-scoped sidemount and topmount rifles by rescoping existing Tula ex-snipers, using original PEM scopes (non-adjustable) as I can't find real PEs.

    I also have replica PE scopes from Accumounts and the older Ukrainian version.

    The sidemount PEMs have particular interest to me as that is what Zaitsev and his teams used at Stalingrad, not the slightly later PUs shown in the movie..

    QUOTE=msniper19;6666490]I define it by what mount type was used. So I classify them in production order as

    - PE Top Mount
    - PEM Top Mount
    - PEM Side Mount
    - 1942 PEM Top mounts and Side mounts built by Izhevsk and Tula

    I have never seen a PE scope on a side mount. As for information, Ratnik's book covers the 1942 rifles well. There is not a single good source for the early rifles. When Ratnik writes his new book it will contain information on earlier rifles. Until then, I have learned from researching and observing original rifles. Original matching rifles are extremely difficult to find. The next best thing are the Finn captured rifles. Much can be learned from the barrel receiver actions (which is all that is usually left). There are several good threads here that you can search for. Good luck.[/QUOTE]

  4. Remove Advertisements
    GunBoards.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Thanks for the info.

    Back to one of my questions, but with more detail. If I were acquiring a 1936 Tula Finn capture with top mount holes and stock intact, how would I know which scope is appropriate? Was this the transition period between PE and PEM scopes?

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    845

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MarksmanTim View Post
    Thanks for the info.

    Back to one of my questions, but with more detail. If I were acquiring a 1936 Tula Finn capture with top mount holes and stock intact, how would I know which scope is appropriate? Was this the transition period between PE and PEM scopes?
    A 1936 Tula top mount would have a PE scope. 1937 is the first year of PEM scopes.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msniper19 View Post
    A 1936 Tula top mount would have a PE scope. 1937 is the first year of PEM scopes.
    Ok thanks. I do have Ratnik's excellent book. I hope his next one encompasses 1930-1940!

    I see people reference serial prefix codes as known blocks for snipers. I don't doubt the authenticity of the rifle I am acquiring, but can I get the database somewhere for future reference?

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Assachusetts
    Posts
    337

    Default

    Can you please enlighten me about Ratnik's book? What it's called?

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    Can you please enlighten me about Ratnik's book? What it's called?
    As far as I know, it was only sold here, through Gunboards last year. I don't know if he still has copies for sale. The name is "M91/30 rifles and M38/M44 carbines from 1941-1945"

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    355

    Default

    While on my main topics of scopes, can you guys confirm some facts about the aftermarket scopes out there?

    It seems there were older Ukranian copies that were pretty good quality and mimicked the originals in every way? How do you identify them?

    The other copies I'm aware of are Chinese? These are the ones more commonly found for sale on sites and from Accumounts? These scopes are slightly different in that when you adjust elevation and windage, the recticle stays in place, instead of moving. Correct?

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    2,103

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MarksmanTim View Post
    While on my main topics of scopes, can you guys confirm some facts about the aftermarket scopes out there?

    It seems there were older Ukranian copies that were pretty good quality and mimicked the originals in every way? How do you identify them?

    The other copies I'm aware of are Chinese? These are the ones more commonly found for sale on sites and from Accumounts? These scopes are slightly different in that when you adjust elevation and windage, the recticle stays in place, instead of moving. Correct?






    Yes, the Ukrainian PE and PEM (rare) reproductions are good quality. I myself haven't handled a Ukrainian repro PEM, but the repro PE's have a brass front objective ring and the reticle moves in the sight picture during windage/elevation adjustment.

    RSM or Red Star Mountain produces a reproduction PEM but I have heard nothing but bad reviews.
    ***ASK ME HOW TO "ACCURIZE" YOUR MOSIN OR MAUSER AND MAKE IT MORE ACCURATE***
    ***LOOKING FOR "DMITRY" (Feldscher) AND "IGOR" PEM MOUNTS***
    ***LOOKING FOR "DMITRY" (Feldscher) DYNAMO "D2" GECO BASE, MOUNT, AND SCOPE***
    ***LOOKING FOR PE AND PEM SCOPES***
    ***LOOKING FOR ZF-39 ZEISS 4X ZIELVIER SCOPES***
    ***LOOKING FOR RUSSIAN CAPTURE K-98'S (43-44 BNZ AND CE 44)***
    ***LOOKING FOR COMPLETE DOUBLE CLAW OBJECTIVE MOUNT ZEISS/HENSOLDT SETS***

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Western NY
    Posts
    355

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Raupleminze View Post
    Yes, the Ukrainian PE and PEM (rare) reproductions are good quality. I myself haven't handled a Ukrainian repro PEM, but the repro PE's have a brass front objective ring and the reticle moves in the sight picture during windage/elevation adjustment.

    RSM or Red Star Mountain produces a reproduction PEM but I have heard nothing but bad reviews.
    If I come across a Ukrainian scope, what's a typical price? Any other identifying markings? For example, do they all have the same "maker" and date stamps?

    I've heard the same about the Chinese ones.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    2,403

    Default

    I got a PEM from Dmitry when he had them and wish I'd gotten many more. They are beautiful scopes....
    "I must hurry, for there they go, and I am their leader!" Ghandi

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •