1. Minimum $395, but likely higher.
Moderators I hope this thread is OK, it sure would help me out, if not, ok to delete.
I know without pictures and holding the rifle in your hand, it is very hard to assess value - My insurance company asked me to provide a link or a source of value to these Finn capture rifles that were taken from me.
Most of the rifles were in at least very good condition. The majority had very good to excellent bores. Bolts Finn matched, some were original matching, but just the bolts or the mag or the buttplate....
My fellow esteemed collectors what would you value todays prices on Finn Capture 91-30s? Any links to past auctions? Not looking for the extreme high prices, nor absurdly low prices, just a good honest average price for rifles in the above condition.
1. Rifles taken are Izhevsk SA 91-30s from 1935 Hex(uncommon) to 1943
2. One all matching SA 91-30 IIRC 1939....but I believe the rifle was matched in Finland as was the style of font used on a couple of my Dragoons, was going to shoot pics of the rifle to see what you guys thought.....now too late.
3. Two early 1930s Transitional rifles, one a Tula, the other Izhevsk, Finn matched bolts, Finn spliced stocks, button bands on each, tall blade front sight - very good condition in the least.
If you could provide me your opinion of the value of these I would greatly appreciate it.
1. Minimum $395, but likely higher.
What bao tze says, but $50 less for each category.
I hate this happened to you bud. I'll throw my valuations in there (whatever good that might be) and could be a little more precise if we had a little bit more info for each rifle.
A regular finn matched capture rifle, Id place a sell value around 325ish, insurance value closer to 450-475.
1942 and later dated finn captures, Id value around 400ish, insurance value closer to 500-525, +50 bucks on the 1943. Id also put the original matching guns in this cluster, if they werent late captures.
The two transitional rifles are hard. Did you have the bayonets? If so were they matching?
I had some refurb transitionals that pulled 475-550ish with the refurb matched panshin bayonet. Id feel comfortable with them without bayonets around the 400-425 value, with bayonets easily 600. Original matching, even more.
Hope this helps bud.
I just sold my 1940 Tula all Russian matching Finn marked 91/30 for $600.
Bore was great, un-pinned rear sight, original stock config with Russian marks..
Last week I was looking wishfully at a '39 Tula with a rough stock and the "SA" stamp on GunBroker. The starting bid was $325 as I recall.
Yes, Tulas usually fetch more, than an equivalent Izhvesk. I know given a choice, I'd pick a Tula over an equal Izhvesk cause a Tula comes with that nice star and no commie crest. That, and they made 20 Izhvesks for every one Tula.
I'd say that a gunbroker search for last 90 days would help. From what I have seen, the 9130s Finn matched have not been selling over 300 for a bit - maybe M39s taking a bite out of them? But unless original matched, I think you'll be hard pressed to get solid evidence on gunbroker of more than 300 if before 1942. I agree that 42-43 may be more.
Action looks like it was reblued, likely because the action is a german capture/depot purchase.
Last edited by eyesis; 04-16-2017 at 08:20 AM.
Here are recent sales over the past 90 days on Gunbroker.
$399 - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/616129178
$381.56 - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/617202515
$345.99 - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/617202515
$306 - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/632897020
$295 - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/615774878
$325 - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/628466229
$385 - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/631102777
$190 - http://www.gunbroker.com/item/632696144
So, the estimates of $350 are quite accurate.
Remember just five years ago when you could still pick these up for $150 or less? Those days are gone.
Remember this is for "insurance replacement", not what they are worth when listing for sale...High end retail would be my estimate..Whatever that may be..Just my .02.....
I am in full agreement with the $350.00 number as the current replacement price.
Aut Pax Aut Bellum
You may want to review the production figures for m91 and 91/30 rifles. Izhevsk numbers were significantly lower until the 1940s. Also the quality of Tula markings slipped in the 1940s
I'm definitely sorry for your loss Pahtu those were some very desirable collectibles.
Now officially collecting Mosin M38s!
it's a post-war refurbished stock. It absolutely isn't original to the gun. Sombody just put a lightly refurb'ed stock with the right acceptance stamp on it to pass it off as something more valuable. Chipping shellac, typical post-war Russian refurb wood repairs, et all are dead give aways. Action itself is likely German capture and deport rework.
Hello, figured this would be helpful. Back in 2012, I sold a (finn capture) on Gunbroker. The listing was here: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/315289772 However you will not see it anymore because too much time has passed and Gunbroker doesn't keep the listing details up forever. The description I had on it was: "FINN M28 Civil Guard SKI TROOP RIFLE 2-SLING SLOT" (I've copied it from my feedback on the item which is still up). It was rare and all matching, particularly rare because it was a Ski Trooper that had been used in Winter War. Had a Sig barrel which was actually in very good condition. NEVER COUNTERBORED.
It was sold for $456.01 at end of auction (that was in November 2012, for reference), I included some items with it including kit unique to that rifle original (not reproduction) from the period, and brass that was specific for the rifle. (The brass was 7.62x53mmR, details on that here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9753mmR -- At the time when I was getting brass for it, it was extremely hard to find, I finally found some for it at Buffalo Arms in Idaho. They had the Lapua brass for 7.62x53mmR. The only other thing that is out there I found was the 7.62x53R Mega by Lapua (with VihtaVuori) which has a soft-point, copper-jacketed bullet - 185 grains which is sold in the U.S., but I'm not sure because I never used it after selling the Finn M28 Ski Trooper. I think you can still easily get it at Brownell's, it's just expensive is all.)
All told, for that price, the buyer (who had a C&R FFL) got from me (I threw in some goodies for free for good measure because I was feeling good): The Finn M28 Ski Trooper rifle, 50 Lapua 7.62 x 53mmR brass, original Finn Civil guard leather ammo carrier used by Civil Guard (not Russian), stripper clips from the period which have some Civil Guard markings, a SY marked oil bottle specific to period, a Civil Guard tool kit for the M28 from the period (as was custom contained in small cloth sack) and some other Finn goodies I threw in. Today of course the prices for such a thing would be higher.
Currently, on gunbroker, now in April 2017, a Finn Capture 91/30 with no accessories (not a double sling slot, and light on details in the listing) is going for minimum $450 -- with a back bore. I understand the prices are going up for these but I would not pay that for back bored rifle. http://www.gunbroker.com/item/638610136
Last edited by freethinkr; 04-16-2017 at 06:15 PM.
And to think that I paid 39.95 for my unrefurbed SA marked 1934 Hex Izzy, and 1941 Izzy in 1996.
Damn I miss those days !!
Imagine trying to pick up a fully functional antique M28 (or Mosin 91/30, or M44) today (purchasing it intact as you would have found it in the field when these were originally used) for 40 or 50 bucks in the United States today. Impossible.
Interestingly though, if you are willing to do some hard searching you can find barreled receivers some of which are antiques, for M44 or 91/30s, at incredible prices. Conditions may vary.... Some of what you find will be without barrels and will be advertised as "bare receivers." Be aware though, BATF has stated that they do not consider bare receivers to be C&R, and bare receivers cannot be shipped to Type 03 (C&R) FFL holder in another state. Best if you are not looking for the whole intact item as it was originally used in the field, is to find a barreled receiver, and if you are fortunate you will get a shot at getting antiques. I probably don't have to mention to anyone here why antiques are so fantastic, but for anyone who's interested, Empire Arms has an excellent FAQ on the subject: https://www.empirearms.com/pre-1899.htm
And for anyone interested in CA stuff, he covers that too: https://www.empirearms.com/cal-ffl.htm
Last edited by freethinkr; 04-16-2017 at 07:30 PM.
That was just the scenario when we bought our very first pawn shop Mosin, and we picked the '42 Tula. If the Tula had been ten to twenty dollars more than the Izhvesks, we still would have taken home the Tula.
Liners and inspections are to sure ways to date stocks. And, if this was a post war stock then it would have the elongated relief cuts of the rear bands. Facts do not support your theory. This stock was indeed worked on post war, put it was not made post war.
The insurance company will low ball you, so start showing values of 500-650 in order to get your $350 value. Its a very simple concept with insurance, they pay the least amount possible, you will lose badly in this game, if you dont cherry pick historical sales to justify your value.
Pahtu, sorry to get so far off your OP. Good luck getting a fair amount from your insurance company to rebuild your collection.
I too have negotiated with insurance companies and noted that they seem to like oversimplify and, fairly, minimize payment. I think the below recently completed auction would show that $450.00 or $500.00 each would be a very reasonable replacement cost for your rifles since they were all more desirable than this one in my opinion.