Finn Capture 91-30s value.
Results 1 to 37 of 37

Thread: Finn Capture 91-30s value.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    The dry side of WA State
    Posts
    9,268

    Default Finn Capture 91-30s value.

    Moderators I hope this thread is OK, it sure would help me out, if not, ok to delete.

    I know without pictures and holding the rifle in your hand, it is very hard to assess value - My insurance company asked me to provide a link or a source of value to these Finn capture rifles that were taken from me.

    Most of the rifles were in at least very good condition. The majority had very good to excellent bores. Bolts Finn matched, some were original matching, but just the bolts or the mag or the buttplate....

    My fellow esteemed collectors what would you value todays prices on Finn Capture 91-30s? Any links to past auctions? Not looking for the extreme high prices, nor absurdly low prices, just a good honest average price for rifles in the above condition.

    1. Rifles taken are Izhevsk SA 91-30s from 1935 Hex(uncommon) to 1943

    2. One all matching SA 91-30 IIRC 1939....but I believe the rifle was matched in Finland as was the style of font used on a couple of my Dragoons, was going to shoot pics of the rifle to see what you guys thought.....now too late.

    3. Two early 1930s Transitional rifles, one a Tula, the other Izhevsk, Finn matched bolts, Finn spliced stocks, button bands on each, tall blade front sight - very good condition in the least.

    If you could provide me your opinion of the value of these I would greatly appreciate it.

    Pahtu.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    the West
    Posts
    445

    Lightbulb

    1. Minimum $395, but likely higher.

    2. $350-$375

    3. $450+

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    South Central PA
    Posts
    1,461

    Default

    What bao tze says, but $50 less for each category.

  4. Remove Advertisements
    GunBoards.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,038

    Default

    Pahtu,

    I hate this happened to you bud. I'll throw my valuations in there (whatever good that might be) and could be a little more precise if we had a little bit more info for each rifle.


    A regular finn matched capture rifle, Id place a sell value around 325ish, insurance value closer to 450-475.

    1942 and later dated finn captures, Id value around 400ish, insurance value closer to 500-525, +50 bucks on the 1943. Id also put the original matching guns in this cluster, if they werent late captures.

    The two transitional rifles are hard. Did you have the bayonets? If so were they matching?

    I had some refurb transitionals that pulled 475-550ish with the refurb matched panshin bayonet. Id feel comfortable with them without bayonets around the 400-425 value, with bayonets easily 600. Original matching, even more.


    Hope this helps bud.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Austn Tx
    Posts
    5,678

    Default

    I just sold my 1940 Tula all Russian matching Finn marked 91/30 for $600.
    Bore was great, un-pinned rear sight, original stock config with Russian marks..

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    999

    Default

    Last week I was looking wishfully at a '39 Tula with a rough stock and the "SA" stamp on GunBroker. The starting bid was $325 as I recall.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    South Central PA
    Posts
    1,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Montana Bearbait View Post
    Last week I was looking wishfully at a '39 Tula with a rough stock and the "SA" stamp on GunBroker. The starting bid was $325 as I recall.

    Larry Eisel just sold an all-matching for $296: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/635448641

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    999

    Default

    Yes, Tulas usually fetch more, than an equivalent Izhvesk. I know given a choice, I'd pick a Tula over an equal Izhvesk cause a Tula comes with that nice star and no commie crest. That, and they made 20 Izhvesks for every one Tula.

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Dark and Bloody Ground
    Posts
    7,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pointyears View Post
    Larry Eisel just sold an all-matching for $296: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/635448641
    Somebody got a bargain there, the gray blanket failed him for once.







  11. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    2,211

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pointyears View Post
    Larry Eisel just sold an all-matching for $296: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/635448641
    The pictures don't show a 39 Tula.
    Gary

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,500

    Default

    I'd say that a gunbroker search for last 90 days would help. From what I have seen, the 9130s Finn matched have not been selling over 300 for a bit - maybe M39s taking a bite out of them? But unless original matched, I think you'll be hard pressed to get solid evidence on gunbroker of more than 300 if before 1942. I agree that 42-43 may be more.

  13. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Relic View Post
    Somebody got a bargain there, the gray blanket failed him for once.
    bargrain with a Russian refurb stock set? I think not

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eyesis View Post
    bargrain with a Russian refurb stock set? I think not
    Not a refurbished stock (correct inspection stamp and factory original butt plate) but does look like something was added to the stock. Hand guard was replaced and repairs done to stock.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Relic View Post
    Somebody got a bargain there, the gray blanket failed him for once.
    I am not certain this was a bargain. I see some issues. Stock has had something added to it and hand guard replaced. I think the barrel, receiver and trigger guard have been re-blued. Look at the condition of the butt plate compared to the rest of the metal. Price is not bad, but not a bargain IMO.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msniper19 View Post
    Not a refurbished stock (correct inspection stamp and factory original butt plate) but does look like something was added to the stock. Hand guard was replaced and repairs done to stock.



    I am not certain this was a bargain. I see some issues. Stock has had something added to it and hand guard replaced. I think the barrel, receiver and trigger guard have been re-blued. Look at the condition of the butt plate compared to the rest of the metal. Price is not bad, but not a bargain IMO.
    That stock set is typical shellaced over lightly refurb stock set. The commom post war Russian wood splice at the nose cap is a dead give away as well as the scallops for the magazine housing pivot pin.

    Action looks like it was reblued, likely because the action is a german capture/depot purchase.
    Last edited by eyesis; 04-16-2017 at 08:20 AM.

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Dark and Bloody Ground
    Posts
    7,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eyesis View Post
    That stock set is typical shellaced over lightly refurb stock set. The commom post war Russian wood splice at the nose cap is a dead give away as well as the scallops for the magazine housing pivot pin.
    After taking a closer look at the pics in the auction, I think you're right. The stock has probably been replaced with one taken off a refurb at some point. You have to wonder why, possibly the original was broken or Bubbaed.







  17. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    11,739

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    South Central PA
    Posts
    1,461

    Default

    $331.40 average.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    11,739

    Default

    Remember just five years ago when you could still pick these up for $150 or less? Those days are gone.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Remember this is for "insurance replacement", not what they are worth when listing for sale...High end retail would be my estimate..Whatever that may be..Just my .02.....

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    2,037

    Default

    I am in full agreement with the $350.00 number as the current replacement price.
    Aut Pax Aut Bellum

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eyesis View Post
    That stock set is typical shellaced over lightly refurb stock set. The commom post war Russian wood splice at the nose cap is a dead give away as well as the scallops for the magazine housing pivot pin.

    Action looks like it was reblued, likely because the action is a german capture/depot purchase.
    The stock has been worked on (as I said) but still a original pre war stock and most likely the original stock. There is no such thing as a post war refurb stock with rb inspection and screwed in liners. All the other factory parts remain.

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    1,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Montana Bearbait View Post
    Yes, Tulas usually fetch more, than an equivalent Izhvesk. I know given a choice, I'd pick a Tula over an equal Izhvesk cause a Tula comes with that nice star and no commie crest. That, and they made 20 Izhvesks for every one Tula.

    You may want to review the production figures for m91 and 91/30 rifles. Izhevsk numbers were significantly lower until the 1940s. Also the quality of Tula markings slipped in the 1940s

    I'm definitely sorry for your loss Pahtu those were some very desirable collectibles.
    Now officially collecting Mosin M38s!

  24. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msniper19 View Post
    The stock has been worked on (as I said) but still a original pre war stock and most likely the original stock. There is no such thing as a post war refurb stock with rb inspection and screwed in liners. All the other factory parts remain.
    it's a post-war refurbished stock. It absolutely isn't original to the gun. Sombody just put a lightly refurb'ed stock with the right acceptance stamp on it to pass it off as something more valuable. Chipping shellac, typical post-war Russian refurb wood repairs, et all are dead give aways. Action itself is likely German capture and deport rework.

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Central Iowa
    Posts
    1,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bao tze 包子 View Post
    1. Minimum $395, but likely higher.

    2. $350-$375

    3. $450+
    Agreed. I would not be surprised if the #3 transitional rifles would hit $600 each auction.
    Now officially collecting Mosin M38s!

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    29

    Default What I sold (Finn Capture) and what I got for it... in 2012

    Hello, figured this would be helpful. Back in 2012, I sold a (finn capture) on Gunbroker. The listing was here: http://www.gunbroker.com/item/315289772 However you will not see it anymore because too much time has passed and Gunbroker doesn't keep the listing details up forever. The description I had on it was: "FINN M28 Civil Guard SKI TROOP RIFLE 2-SLING SLOT" (I've copied it from my feedback on the item which is still up). It was rare and all matching, particularly rare because it was a Ski Trooper that had been used in Winter War. Had a Sig barrel which was actually in very good condition. NEVER COUNTERBORED.

    It was sold for $456.01 at end of auction (that was in November 2012, for reference), I included some items with it including kit unique to that rifle original (not reproduction) from the period, and brass that was specific for the rifle. (The brass was 7.62x53mmR, details on that here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9753mmR -- At the time when I was getting brass for it, it was extremely hard to find, I finally found some for it at Buffalo Arms in Idaho. They had the Lapua brass for 7.62x53mmR. The only other thing that is out there I found was the 7.62x53R Mega by Lapua (with VihtaVuori) which has a soft-point, copper-jacketed bullet - 185 grains which is sold in the U.S., but I'm not sure because I never used it after selling the Finn M28 Ski Trooper. I think you can still easily get it at Brownell's, it's just expensive is all.)

    All told, for that price, the buyer (who had a C&R FFL) got from me (I threw in some goodies for free for good measure because I was feeling good): The Finn M28 Ski Trooper rifle, 50 Lapua 7.62 x 53mmR brass, original Finn Civil guard leather ammo carrier used by Civil Guard (not Russian), stripper clips from the period which have some Civil Guard markings, a SY marked oil bottle specific to period, a Civil Guard tool kit for the M28 from the period (as was custom contained in small cloth sack) and some other Finn goodies I threw in. Today of course the prices for such a thing would be higher.

    Currently, on gunbroker, now in April 2017, a Finn Capture 91/30 with no accessories (not a double sling slot, and light on details in the listing) is going for minimum $450 -- with a back bore. I understand the prices are going up for these but I would not pay that for back bored rifle. http://www.gunbroker.com/item/638610136
    Last edited by freethinkr; 04-16-2017 at 06:15 PM.
    Member, FPC - https://www.firearmspolicy.org/join/ - https://www.firearmspolicy.org/act/
    CZ-52 (Česká Zbrojovka vzor 52), M44 Russian w/Brass Stacker, & drillpressing out 80percenters
    New business close to launch [2017].

  27. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Midland Michigan
    Posts
    3,191

    Default

    And to think that I paid 39.95 for my unrefurbed SA marked 1934 Hex Izzy, and 1941 Izzy in 1996.

    Damn I miss those days !!

  28. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by panzerfaust44 View Post
    And to think that I paid 39.95 for my unrefurbed SA marked 1934 Hex Izzy, and 1941 Izzy in 1996.

    Damn I miss those days !!
    Those were the days... In my case the Finn Ski Trooper (M28) I sold which I mentioned above, had a SIG barrel (the barrel was made in 1928), with the RECEIVER MADE IN 1896, making it a fully functional ANTIQUE... plus it had matching bolt, barrel, CG district number, and so on.... SY and SA marked...

    Imagine trying to pick up a fully functional antique M28 (or Mosin 91/30, or M44) today (purchasing it intact as you would have found it in the field when these were originally used) for 40 or 50 bucks in the United States today. Impossible.

    Interestingly though, if you are willing to do some hard searching you can find barreled receivers some of which are antiques, for M44 or 91/30s, at incredible prices. Conditions may vary.... Some of what you find will be without barrels and will be advertised as "bare receivers." Be aware though, BATF has stated that they do not consider bare receivers to be C&R, and bare receivers cannot be shipped to Type 03 (C&R) FFL holder in another state. Best if you are not looking for the whole intact item as it was originally used in the field, is to find a barreled receiver, and if you are fortunate you will get a shot at getting antiques. I probably don't have to mention to anyone here why antiques are so fantastic, but for anyone who's interested, Empire Arms has an excellent FAQ on the subject: https://www.empirearms.com/pre-1899.htm
    And for anyone interested in CA stuff, he covers that too: https://www.empirearms.com/cal-ffl.htm
    Last edited by freethinkr; 04-16-2017 at 07:30 PM.
    Member, FPC - https://www.firearmspolicy.org/join/ - https://www.firearmspolicy.org/act/
    CZ-52 (Česká Zbrojovka vzor 52), M44 Russian w/Brass Stacker, & drillpressing out 80percenters
    New business close to launch [2017].

  29. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    999

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken in Iowa View Post
    You may want to review the production figures for m91 and 91/30 rifles. Izhevsk numbers were significantly lower until the 1940s. Also the quality of Tula markings slipped in the 1940s

    I'm definitely sorry for your loss Pahtu those were some very desirable collectibles.
    Okay Ken, indulge me for just a moment. A little thought experiment; Pretend you are one of those very few millions who have never seen a Mosin before. You wander innocently into your local gun store, and you unexpectedly see a rack filled with shellac-flaking millsurps. Out of bored curiosity, you check out each one, your hands getting grimy with cosmoline. Twelve of them are beaver chewed '42 or '43 Izhvesks. The thirteenth is a '42 or '43 Tula with a brass tipped hand guard. They are all priced at the same, very low, tempting number. Which one would most people in that circumstance buy?

    That was just the scenario when we bought our very first pawn shop Mosin, and we picked the '42 Tula. If the Tula had been ten to twenty dollars more than the Izhvesks, we still would have taken home the Tula.

  30. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eyesis View Post
    it's a post-war refurbished stock. It absolutely isn't original to the gun. Sombody just put a lightly refurb'ed stock with the right acceptance stamp on it to pass it off as something more valuable. Chipping shellac, typical post-war Russian refurb wood repairs, et all are dead give aways. Action itself is likely German capture and deport rework.
    There is no post war stocks with the ГВ inspection and screwed in escutcheons. ГВ is a inspection stamp only found from 1936 to early 1939. So that fact that the rifle has it's factory matching butt plate and a early 1939 stock (and the rifle is a early 1939 rifle) more then likely means it is it's original stock. I challenge you to show me a post war stock with the same inspection stamp, roundel and escutcheons. Or show me why you please this stock is a "post war refurbished stock."

    Liners and inspections are to sure ways to date stocks. And, if this was a post war stock then it would have the elongated relief cuts of the rear bands. Facts do not support your theory. This stock was indeed worked on post war, put it was not made post war.

  31. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    465

    Default

    The insurance company will low ball you, so start showing values of 500-650 in order to get your $350 value. Its a very simple concept with insurance, they pay the least amount possible, you will lose badly in this game, if you dont cherry pick historical sales to justify your value.

  32. #31
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msniper19 View Post
    There is no post war stocks with the ГВ inspection and screwed in escutcheons. ГВ is a inspection stamp only found from 1936 to early 1939. So that fact that the rifle has it's factory matching butt plate and a early 1939 stock (and the rifle is a early 1939 rifle) more then likely means it is it's original stock. I challenge you to show me a post war stock with the same inspection stamp, roundel and escutcheons. Or show me why you please this stock is a "post war refurbished stock."

    Liners and inspections are to sure ways to date stocks. And, if this was a post war stock then it would have the elongated relief cuts of the rear bands. Facts do not support your theory. This stock was indeed worked on post war, put it was not made post war.
    I said the stock was post war refurbished stock, not that it was post war made stock. Gun is not in original condition nor does it have all factory parts. Action itself has lively been reworked by German depot judging by the blue bolt and polished rear sight. So it's totally reworked piece including parts swapped in US that went thru Soviet refurb post war.

  33. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    814

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eyesis View Post
    I said the stock was post war refurbished stock, not that it was post war made stock. Gun is not in original condition nor does it have all factory parts. Action itself has lively been reworked by German depot judging by the blue bolt and polished rear sight. So it's totally reworked piece including parts swapped in US that went thru Soviet refurb post war.
    Besides the hand guard what is not factory original? The bolt, butt plate (and most likely stock) and trigger guard are all factory original. They are all clearly the same font (which makes them factory original in case you didn't know). Again, clearly the rifle has been worked on, but still has all it's factory original parts.

  34. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    213

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by msniper19 View Post
    Besides the hand guard what is not factory original? The bolt, butt plate (and most likely stock) and trigger guard are all factory original. They are all clearly the same font (which makes them factory original in case you didn't know). Again, clearly the rifle has been worked on, but still has all it's factory original parts.
    The stock l is Soviet post war refurbished stock. Thus, it cannot under any scenario belong on a Finnish captured gun. Just because somebody in US stuck the right vintage stock, refurbished by Soviets after the war, it doesn't make it the original stock.

  35. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    814

    Default

    Pahtu, sorry to get so far off your OP. Good luck getting a fair amount from your insurance company to rebuild your collection.

  36. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Midland Michigan
    Posts
    3,191

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Montana Bearbait View Post
    Okay Ken, indulge me for just a moment. A little thought experiment; Pretend you are one of those very few millions who have never seen a Mosin before. You wander innocently into your local gun store, and you unexpectedly see a rack filled with shellac-flaking millsurps. Out of bored curiosity, you check out each one, your hands getting grimy with cosmoline. Twelve of them are beaver chewed '42 or '43 Izhvesks. The thirteenth is a '42 or '43 Tula with a brass tipped hand guard. They are all priced at the same, very low, tempting number. Which one would most people in that circumstance buy?

    That was just the scenario when we bought our very first pawn shop Mosin, and we picked the '42 Tula. If the Tula had been ten to twenty dollars more than the Izhvesks, we still would have taken home the Tula.

    You do raise some valid points about pricing.

  37. #36
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    72

    Default

    I too have negotiated with insurance companies and noted that they seem to like oversimplify and, fairly, minimize payment. I think the below recently completed auction would show that $450.00 or $500.00 each would be a very reasonable replacement cost for your rifles since they were all more desirable than this one in my opinion.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/625125014

  38. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    999

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alanhufstutler View Post
    the below recently completed auction would show that $450.00 or $500.00 each would be a very reasonable replacement cost for your rifles since they were all more desirable than this one in my opinion.

    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/625125014
    Absolutely, I completely agree with your statement.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •