Turk, Finn Capture 1914 M91 Auction
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Thread: Turk, Finn Capture 1914 M91 Auction

  1. #1
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    Default Turk, Finn Capture 1914 M91 Auction

    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/635828964

    Looks like the seller is pretty happy about this result. $1950

    What is this auction telling us about the value of Turked M91's?

  2. #2
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    I was watching that one, surprised it went for that much. Same seller had a made in USSR 91/30 with a shellacked stock that brought almost $500 for some reason, two bidders got in a pissing match. http://www.gunbroker.com/item/634901506

  3. #3
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    I think the interesting part of the turk gun is the arabic on the receiver which would indicate this wasn't just a recycled rear sight.

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  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by cncman View Post
    I think the interesting part of the turk gun is the arabic on the receiver which would indicate this wasn't just a recycled rear sight.
    I noticed that, and also the rear sight blueing matches the receiver, (I bought the last Turk Westinghouse, in which there is some uncertainty whether the Finns just used an Arabic sight during their rebuild).

    I tried buying this rifle directly from the seller for $450, and he thought he would get over $600 at auction. Looks like he was right.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by cncman View Post
    I was watching that one, surprised it went for that much. Same seller had a made in USSR 91/30 with a shellacked stock that brought almost $500 for some reason, two bidders got in a pissing match. http://www.gunbroker.com/item/634901506

    The gun is no question rare. The valuation is based on what couple buyers were willing to pay to get it.

  7. #6
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    Hello Gents,

    A rare and interesting rifle in this auction! Perhaps you folks can help me with a valuation on a similar rifle???

    However, this example is rarer still. ;>)

    Click image for larger version. 

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    With the total absense of any German or Austro-Hungarian markings anywhere on the rifle, combined with the Spanish Civil War provenance confirmed by the Interarms "MADE IN USSR" stamped on the receiver flat, the most likely chain of possession of this rifle would be as follows.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    This M1894 dated Chatellerault is a one of a kind. The stock is not original to the rifle and no two serial numbers match. The bolt is Chatellerault manufactured, but has never been numbered? Perhaps one of the spares ordered by Russia to service the early rifles before manufacturing was underway in Russia? Based on the early date it could have been rebuilt on any number of occasions either before, during or after WWI. The sling-slots, recoil lug and Kornovolav rear sight leaf place it in Russian hands post 1908.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Based on the total absence of any Austro-Hungarian or German markings, this rifle would have been captured by the Ottoman Turks directly from the Russians during the campigns in the Caucuses. The barrel was serialized by the Turks and the range markings applied on the right side of the rear sight base.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Ersatz sling swivels were added under the butt and through the stock forearm. The hole in the forearm was later plugged. However, the hole under the butt remains and appears to indicate that the rear swivel that was added came from a Turkish M1874 Peabody-Martini. When this work was completed, the rifle was issued to a soldier in the Ottoman Army.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The photo on the left is the rear swivel on one of my Turkish M1874 Peabody-Martini Rifles. The photo on the right shows the hole left by the sling swivel added by the Turks.

    For this rifle to have been available for shipment to the Republican forces fighting in the Spanish Civil War, it would have to have been recaptured by the Russians during WWI. As a result, unlike the example in the auction posted above, it never ended up in Finland. The Turkish markings were never over-struck and remain as applied. If recaptured during WWI, it would most likely have played a role in the Russian Revolution and the Civil War that followed.

    In terms of rarity, it checks the following boxes:

    1894 Chatellerault ~ Chatellerault finger-spur stock with square backed magazine housing ~ Ottoman Turk capture and reissue during WWI ~ Turkish ersatz sling swivels added then later removed ~ Russian Revolution?? ~ Russian Civil War??? ~ Service in the Spanish Civil War ~ Import by Interarms in the late 50s early 60s

    Anyone care to hazard a guess as to it's value?

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

  8. #7
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    Something like this would have to find the right buyer, just like the last auction did. My guess is $2000-2500.

    edit: not an expert, take my opinion with a grain of salt.
    Last edited by Just_Me; 04-17-2017 at 09:21 PM.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyesis View Post
    The gun is no question rare. The valuation is based on what couple buyers were willing to pay to get it.
    Yep, I was one of the pissers....a '35 is a low production year and I would have been happy to own it with the USSR stamp on it. Only after I won it and got a better look at the pictures it turned out to be a '33....hell there are plenty more of those. The seller released me from the sale and no harm no foul. They were great to deal with...

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by NLMosin View Post
    Yep, I was one of the pissers....a '35 is a low production year and I would have been happy to own it with the USSR stamp on it. Only after I won it and got a better look at the pictures it turned out to be a '33....hell there are plenty more of those. The seller released me from the sale and no harm no foul. They were great to deal with...
    Well I was referencing the Turk gun. The Spanish gun wasn't worth even half the final price.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by eyesis View Post
    Well I was referencing the Turk gun. The Spanish gun wasn't worth even half the final price.
    Actually I put the wrong part of the quote in the post but thanks for the solid shitting!

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