Turk Finn M91 on GB
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Thread: Turk Finn M91 on GB

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    177

    Default Turk Finn M91 on GB

    http://www.gunbroker.com/item/635828964

    I hope one of y'all got this. I watched it the whole time with the full knowledge it would go wayyyy out of my price range. Only honest turk capture m91 that wasn't a finn mixmaster I have ever seen. Very cool.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    York,Pa
    Posts
    1,025

    Default

    I personally was hoping it sell more around the 600 to 800 mark. Only Ottoman used rifle I've ever seen for sale. Mostly just a sight here or there. My dad did end up winning the bid though

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    The middle of Texas
    Posts
    639

    Default

    German markings too, very cool!

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  5. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    South metro Atlanta area.
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    3,026

    Default

    Wow, that one is fantastic. I also hope one of our members bought it. The buyer certainly appreciated the uniqueness of that one. $1950 + shipping was probably a decent price.

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    464

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitch5690 View Post
    I personally was hoping it sell more around the 600 to 800 mark. Only Ottoman used rifle I've ever seen for sale. Mostly just a sight here or there. My dad did end up winning the bid though
    Great to hear that your Dad picked it up. Its also the first Ottoman one that I have ever seen. Im keeping an eye out for the second one. Right now, I just a Westinghouse with a Turkish sight. Hopefully it will have a Buy it now option.

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Outer Mongolia
    Posts
    8,634

    Default

    Hello Gents,

    A rare and interesting rifle in this auction! Perhaps you folks can help me with a valuation on a similar rifle???

    However, this example is rarer still. ;>)



    With the total absense of any German or Austro-Hungarian markings anywhere on the rifle, combined with the Spanish Civil War provenance confirmed by the Interarms "MADE IN USSR" stamped on the receiver flat, the most likely chain of possession of this rifle would be as follows.



    This M1894 dated Chatellerault is a one of a kind. The stock is not original to the rifle and no two serial numbers match. The bolt is Chatellerault manufactured, but has never been numbered? Perhaps one of the spares ordered by Russia to service the early rifles before manufacturing was underway in Russia? Based on the early date it could have been rebuilt on any number of occasions either before, during or after WWI. The sling-slots, recoil lug and Kornovolav rear sight leaf place it in Russian hands post 1908.



    Based on the total absence of any Austro-Hungarian or German markings, this rifle would have been captured by the Ottoman Turks directly from the Russians during the campigns in the Caucuses. The barrel was serialized by the Turks and the range markings applied on the right side of the rear sight base.



    Ersatz sling swivels were added under the butt and through the stock forearm. The hole in the forearm was later plugged. However, the hole under the butt remains and appears to indicate that the rear swivel that was added came from a Turkish M1874 Peabody-Martini. When this work was completed, the rifle was issued to a soldier in the Ottoman Army.



    The photo on the left is the rear swivel on one of my Turkish M1874 Peabody-Martini Rifles. The photo on the right shows the hole left by the sling swivel added by the Turks.

    For this rifle to have been available for shipment to the Republican forces fighting in the Spanish Civil War, it would have to have been recaptured by the Russians during WWI. As a result, unlike the example in the auction posted above, it never ended up in Finland. The Turkish markings were never over-struck and remain as applied. If recaptured during WWI, it would most likely have played a role in the Russian Revolution and the Civil War that followed.

    In terms of rarity, it checks the following boxes:

    1894 Chatellerault ~ Chatellerault finger-spur stock with square backed magazine housing ~ Ottoman Turk capture and reissue during WWI ~ Turkish ersatz sling swivels added then later removed ~ Russian Revolution?? ~ Russian Civil War??? ~ Service in the Spanish Civil War ~ Import by Interarms in the late 50s early 60s

    Anyone care to hazard a guess as to it's value?

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    411

    Default

    Clearly a $250 example. I'll be happy to take it off your hands as a favor.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    York,Pa
    Posts
    1,025

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JPS View Post
    Hello Gents,

    A rare and interesting rifle in this auction! Perhaps you folks can help me with a valuation on a similar rifle???

    However, this example is rarer still. ;>)



    With the total absense of any German or Austro-Hungarian markings anywhere on the rifle, combined with the Spanish Civil War provenance confirmed by the Interarms "MADE IN USSR" stamped on the receiver flat, the most likely chain of possession of this rifle would be as follows.



    This M1894 dated Chatellerault is a one of a kind. The stock is not original to the rifle and no two serial numbers match. The bolt is Chatellerault manufactured, but has never been numbered? Perhaps one of the spares ordered by Russia to service the early rifles before manufacturing was underway in Russia? Based on the early date it could have been rebuilt on any number of occasions either before, during or after WWI. The sling-slots, recoil lug and Kornovolav rear sight leaf place it in Russian hands post 1908.



    Based on the total absence of any Austro-Hungarian or German markings, this rifle would have been captured by the Ottoman Turks directly from the Russians during the campigns in the Caucuses. The barrel was serialized by the Turks and the range markings applied on the right side of the rear sight base.



    Ersatz sling swivels were added under the butt and through the stock forearm. The hole in the forearm was later plugged. However, the hole under the butt remains and appears to indicate that the rear swivel that was added came from a Turkish M1874 Peabody-Martini. When this work was completed, the rifle was issued to a soldier in the Ottoman Army.



    The photo on the left is the rear swivel on one of my Turkish M1874 Peabody-Martini Rifles. The photo on the right shows the hole left by the sling swivel added by the Turks.

    For this rifle to have been available for shipment to the Republican forces fighting in the Spanish Civil War, it would have to have been recaptured by the Russians during WWI. As a result, unlike the example in the auction posted above, it never ended up in Finland. The Turkish markings were never over-struck and remain as applied. If recaptured during WWI, it would most likely have played a role in the Russian Revolution and the Civil War that followed.

    In terms of rarity, it checks the following boxes:

    1894 Chatellerault ~ Chatellerault finger-spur stock with square backed magazine housing ~ Ottoman Turk capture and reissue during WWI ~ Turkish ersatz sling swivels added then later removed ~ Russian Revolution?? ~ Russian Civil War??? ~ Service in the Spanish Civil War ~ Import by Interarms in the late 50s early 60s

    Anyone care to hazard a guess as to it's value?

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

    *warning this pre sales advertisement has only been a test. Please return to your normal duties and politely invest more money*

    sorry guys its I was distracted by a tingle on the fishing line attached to an TBD date in our future! 😂😂😂

    always love seeing those rifles JPS! You def have most of the wowzers!!

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    177

    Default

    JPS, wonderful specimen

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    "There's No Place Like Home"
    Posts
    3,541

    Default

    Would have to think more than the auction with the finger rest. And being a Chat. And more still if the bayonet goes with it. Nice rifles!
    MOSIN PRIME!

    Always looking for interesting Imperial Mosins! Antique M91s, 91/38s and Imperial dated Nagant revolvers. PM me if you may have one you may be looking to trade/sell.

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