The Great War
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 45 of 55

Thread: The Great War

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default The Great War

    .. I recently caught up to date on watching the Great War series on You Tube

    Home page https://www.youtube.com/user/TheGreatWar

    All the episodes in chronological order https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fga...6VS6w3KxuKsMvT

    they are up to episode 385 with all the supplemental programs in the right places ..

    Each week of the war in 8 to 10 minute increments with specials on personalities weapons nations etc. sandwiched in.

    I may have posted this way back when it started .. and I missed it for about a year+, but all caught up now.

    What prompted me to post was , well last week a 100 years ago the US joined the war.. so there is that.. the special on Wilson and the dictatorial powers he assumed will shock and appall you...

    But the trigger was the recent thread on the movie the 4 Feathers... The story behind the white feather is pretty interesting... It was a recruiting tool / campaign .. young women would come up to young healthy civilian men on the streets of England and hand them a white feather.. partly a challenge to enlist, partly an accusation of cowardness. Seemed to work pretty well.

    8 to 10 minutes an episode 385 episodes .. call it 3300 minutes .. 55 hours so far, lots of details, lots of vintage footage, lots of stuff that isn't exactly the popular version of some things...

    I am really enjoying it...
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    1,323

    Default

    Looks very interesting, thank you for the heads up.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    On top of the world, looking down on creation
    Posts
    35,964

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    ..
    But the trigger was the recent thread on the movie the 4 Feathers... The story behind the white feather is pretty interesting... It was a recruiting tool / campaign .. young women would come up to young healthy civilian men on the streets of England and hand them a white feather.. partly a challenge to enlist, partly an accusation of cowardness. Seemed to work pretty well.
    Infuriating. I hope each of them that did such a thing enjoyed a long lonely life as a childless spinster when so many of the available men of their generation died in that stupid tragic useless war.

    Rosamund, and so many of the classmates who sat with her that morning, joined what came to be known as The Surplus Two Million - women whose dreams of marriage and children died alongside their men.

    World War I deprived Britain of three-quarters-of-a-million soldiers, leaving as many more incapacitated.

    "We thought about it for a long time, 'Endeavor to persevere.' And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union." Lone Watie

  4. Remove Advertisements
    GunBoards.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    Yeah, I'm sure it was the women's fault.....
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    3,298

    Default

    The Great War was a disaster for the British Commonwealth...so many men dead who could have contributed to the future of their countries,but never had the chance.

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Stein View Post
    Infuriating. I hope each of them that did such a thing enjoyed a long lonely life as a childless spinster when so many of the available men of their generation died in that stupid tragic useless war.

    Rosamund, and so many of the classmates who sat with her that morning, joined what came to be known as The Surplus Two Million - women whose dreams of marriage and children died alongside their men.

    World War I deprived Britain of three-quarters-of-a-million soldiers, leaving as many more incapacitated.

    I've read about the white feathers. Some men who were rejected because they were in vital industries requested the government issue a badge so they would not be accosted.
    Turning relics into near-relics since 2005.

  8. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    On top of the world, looking down on creation
    Posts
    35,964

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    Yeah, I'm sure it was the women's fault.....
    In many cases yes, yes it was the women's fault. Do you defend them out of a misplaced sense of sisterhood?

    He had three small daughters, which saved him from conscription, and his attempt to volunteer was turned down in 1914 because he was short-sighted.

    But in 1916, as he walked home to south London from his office, a woman gave him a white feather (an emblem of cowardice).

    He enlisted the next day. By that time, they cared nothing for short sight. They just wanted a body to stop a shell, which Rifleman James Cutmore duly did in February 1918, dying of his wounds on March 28.

    My mother was nine, and never got over it.

    But most of all, she blamed that unknown woman who gave him a white feather, and the thousands of brittle, self-righteous women all over the country who had done the same. And there were thousands of them, as Will Ellsworth-Jones makes clear in his fascinating account of a group of conscientious objectors, We Will Not Fight.

    A 15-year-old boy lied about his age to get into the army in 1914. He was in the retreat from Mons, the Battle of the Marne and the first Battle of Ypres, before he caught a fever and was sent home. Walking across Putney Bridge, four girls gave him white feathers. "I explained to them that I had been in the army and been discharged, and I was still only 16. Several people had collected around the girls and there was giggling, and I felt most uncomfortable and ... very humiliated." He walked straight into the nearest recruiting office and rejoined the army.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ther-cowardice
    "We thought about it for a long time, 'Endeavor to persevere.' And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union." Lone Watie

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    Ahhh.. "in many cases" so it's personal then for you? , the kind of multi generational grudge that fueled so much of World War 1, so many insults nd injustices to ancestors that have to be revenged, still to this day. Kind of ironic that you would think that is was because of misplaced sisterhood by me.

    The war itself was not the women's fault, it wasn't even the common man's "fault" IMHO.

    It was the European system, the family squabbles between related kings and princes over who owned what and had the most serfs and knights to back their claim.. and the serfs willingness to die for their monarch, and the ideal of manhood itself. Which color or team or king you cheered for.
    The press and ideas moved more slowly back then and were much less free.. alt facts were probably even more common back then than now, by a little bit.

    We saw it on 9/11 .. everybody united .. everybody ready to go kill and die or cheer on those that did .. slowly fading until now when folks argue and lie about when they first turned against the war, whenever it was, it was surely before the person they are arguing with. against war itself.. everybody is getting their buttons pushed again.. we have a monarch on the throne that has low ratings .. history tells us what he must do.. and it looks like he is trying to do that very thing.. men are starting to feel manly again, and have dreams of glory and bravery ( even though the truth is as real and present as a body that put a bullet thru it's own head) and all the people will cheer ( because we have all played the FPS and know the alt truth)... except a few and they will be muzzled or locked up or shamed into silence for a while.. until the whole cycle starts again.

    And I am sure somebody will claim they were just trying to impress some girl...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkaKwXddT_I
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  10. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    On top of the world, looking down on creation
    Posts
    35,964

    Default

    What? You don't like this fight so you go looking for a different one?

    You're defending the white-feather imbeciles who shamed poor blokes into fighting and dying in a needless war while they remained home safe in their snug corsets lapping up fantasies of Edwardian chivalry.

    I'll stick on the side of Wilfred Owen and Siegfried Sassoon while you stay there with Kitchener, French, Haig and these empty-headed damsels.
    "We thought about it for a long time, 'Endeavor to persevere.' And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union." Lone Watie

  11. #10

    Default

    Has anyone here been watching the PBS current program on the American involvement in The Great War? Three two hour segments and you can watch it at the PBS website under The American Experience line of programs. if you don't get it over the 'air'. Pretty comprehensive, or at least very substantial detail coverage of the politics and societal happenings then. I've never thought well of Woodrow Wilson, and now that I see more about how he operated, I like even less about him. I recommend this to watch. Thanks

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J.Stein View Post
    What? You don't like this fight so you go looking for a different one?

    You're defending the white-feather imbeciles who shamed poor blokes into fighting and dying in a needless war while they remained home safe in their snug corsets lapping up fantasies of Edwardian chivalry.

    I'll stick on the side of Wilfred Owen and Siegfried Sassoon while you stay there with Kitchener, French, Haig and these empty-headed damsels.
    WTF? defending.. I'm neither pro or con... it's a little late to be for or against, don't you think? I merely explained how it worked . and it did work ... thank you for telling me who was on which side of this issue before they all died... what was the final score? who won?

    Jeeze Louise
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  13. #12
    Clyde's Avatar
    Clyde is offline Gold Bullet Member and Noted Curmudgeon
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    74,609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vmo View Post
    Has anyone here been watching the PBS current program on the American involvement in The Great War? Three two hour segments and you can watch it at the PBS website under The American Experience line of programs. if you don't get it over the 'air'. Pretty comprehensive, or at least very substantial detail coverage of the politics and societal happenings then. I've never thought well of Woodrow Wilson, and now that I see more about how he operated, I like even less about him. I recommend this to watch. Thanks
    Nothing new to me about Wilson in those - and it would not be possible for me to think less or worse of him than i do already.

    That said, the populace generally can use a dose fact and reality about War One.

    As to white feathers, terrible behavior - not for seeking to shame cowardice, but in that there was no way for the broads to know WHY the person accosted wasn't in service, and as best i can tell - they didn't much (if any) care. Which is (along with the incompetence of the war leaders on both sides) unconsionable.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vmo View Post
    Has anyone here been watching the PBS current program on the American involvement in The Great War? Three two hour segments and you can watch it at the PBS website under The American Experience line of programs. if you don't get it over the 'air'. Pretty comprehensive, or at least very substantial detail coverage of the politics and societal happenings then. I've never thought well of Woodrow Wilson, and now that I see more about how he operated, I like even less about him. I recommend this to watch. Thanks
    Yes I watched .. it is pretty much just from where America entered the war and our part in it .. yeah the bit on Wilson was pretty wild. I agree, I think it is well worth the watching. They left a lot out IMHO the Smithsonian has a series Apocalypse WW1 that covers more of the war part and a few things about the troops PBS left out... PBS is like 6 hours, Smithsonian is about the same IIRC... That is what I like about the Great War on You Tube .. you can get a lot more granular with 55 hours to work with .. and they aren't done yet they release a new episode on Thursdays each week that covers that week 100 years ago and then they do the specials as the need arises.
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Nothing new to me about Wilson in those - and it would not be possible for me to think less or worse of him than i do already.

    That said, the populace generally can use a dose fact and reality about War One.

    As to white feathers, terrible behavior - not for seeking to shame cowardice, but in that there was no way for the broads to know WHY the person accosted wasn't in service, and as best i can tell - they didn't much (if any) care. Which is (along with the incompetence of the war leaders on both sides) unconsionable.

    I don't know... I never even realized it was such a controversy.. the white feather thing.. I figure if you hear the calling to be in the Military you sign up or become a cop or something long those lines ... if you really really have it in you to defend your country at need.. then you set aside your life and sign up when your country gets attacked .. after that, those left are going to be manipulated induced bribed blackmailed emotionally, or drafted if still more folks are needed... and eventually the children and the old folks will be levied if it comes to that.

    https://www.killology.com/sheep-wolves-and-sheepdogs

    I see the white feather as about the last type of tactic before the draft

    And I don't think it was all Command incompetence .. you look at Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg Line tactics against Rifled Muskets and occasionally shell artillery. Ironclads and steam alone just about brought 500 years of Naval Tactics to a screeching halt.

    WW1 was machine guns , actual indirect fire enmass, bolt action breach loaders, tanks , aircraft, and submarines.

    There is always a lag between Ordnance and Tactics ... currently we are trying to cope with nuclear tipped ICBM's .. imagine the body count if we don't get the weapons and tactics to counter those right the first time.. will we say it was command incompetence if we all die?

    Beginning of WW2 a lot of commanders got relieved and disgraced if they got surprised and lost.. we eventually figured out that they were probably the guys that had the experience to improve tactics, and brought some of them back

    We took the Vietnam experience of hovering helicopter Presidents micro managing the battlefield ( which was fine in Lincoln's day and the telegraph) and turned it in to hidden Bush/ Desert Storm.

    More than ICBM's and nukes though, I worry that if North Korea nukes California due to Russian Cyber alt fact warfare about half the conservatives will be doing happy dances because liberals got nuked ...

    Mark Twain said that Its easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 04-19-2017 at 01:33 PM.
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  16. #15
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    ... currently we are trying to cope with nuclear tipped ICBM's .. imagine the body count if we don't get the weapons and tactics to counter those right the first time.. will we say it was command incompetence if we all die?...
    I sure as hell would. I would explain it in detail to every cockroach that would listen.
    Last edited by nonobadog; 04-20-2017 at 01:00 AM.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    More than ICBM's and nukes though, I worry that if North Korea nukes California due to Russian Cyber alt fact warfare about half the conservatives will be doing happy dances because liberals got nuked ...
    That is just sick. Seek counseling.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    'Merca.
    Posts
    18,626

    Default

    Agreed. That one is across the line, IMO. Disgusting.
    And we didn't blow up, so we got that going for us. Which is nice.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Buckeye AZ
    Posts
    2,984

    Default

    terrible

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    25,666

    Default

    WOW
    Laugh hard and often.

    Gary

  21. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    4,476

    Default

    Thank you for that insight into the mindset.

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    Oh, my bad, I'll change it back to say earthquake making it fall off into the ocean, as is so often openly hoped for... so there is a line, between nukes and earthquake... cool. it's not as bad as it looks . wonder why the difference? Not to minimize the fact we are under cyber attack to divide us with alt facts and fake news .. and it is working, and some folks are just going with it, falling for it.. not even trying to defeat it or fight it.

    Just another new weapon without well developed defensive tactics

    Would it be okay to say the nuke thing if California was first expelled or left the Union?.. that's a common and acceptable trope/ meme in some circles.
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 04-19-2017 at 04:57 PM.
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  23. #22
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    155

    Default

    A lot of Americans have been putting up with crap news for a long time now from the libtard media. We have developed internal BS meters that help sift through the garbage. So the fake news is not as devastating to many of us as you might think.

  24. #23
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    Oh, my bad, I'll change it back to say earthquake making it fall off into the ocean, as is so often openly hoped for... so there is a line, between nukes and earthquake... cool. it's not as bad as it looks . wonder why the difference?
    Seriously? You don't know the difference between a natural event and a nuclear attack against our country?

    When you get up to WWII read about Japan, they have experienced many earthquakes and two nuclear explosions on their home country. They know the difference.

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    Seriously? You don't know the difference between a natural event and a nuclear attack against our country?

    When you get up to WWII read about Japan, they have experienced many earthquakes and two nuclear explosions on their home country. They know the difference.
    Ahh, so the earthquake wish/ prayer is okay then? would we take in refugees in the case of a nuke but not an earthquake then ? ... I was just lumping any and all destruction of Liberal California into one overall category and right now North Korea is seeming more likely than the long hoped for earthquake.. and it is about the liberals? right? .. it certainly isn't about the weather or scenery.

    Apparently the difference is the earthquake happens in California, and the nuke attack is against our country. Interesting

    Not to overlook the point was about a novel tactic that we aren't even trying to defend against, and it isn't the liberal media that is mirroring stories from know Russian propaganda outlets and being repeated in Whitehouse tweets .. and you seem to be making my point for me, you seem confused about what direction the fire is coming from. Article of faith, the fire can't be coming from the Right, which is why it is so effective.
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 04-19-2017 at 05:32 PM.
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  26. #25
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    155

    Default

    I have heard the earthquake wish of course. That is a harmless joke since nobody can control earthquakes.
    You are trying to slide away from your statement about a nuclear attack on California. I don't blame you for wanting to slide away from THAT.

    Not that it matters to anybody else but the earthquake wish is not OK with me. I have too many friends there and besides I like the fresh fruit from there that just won't grow here in the sub-arctic.

  27. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    I have heard the earthquake wish of course. That is a harmless joke since nobody can control earthquakes.
    You are trying to slide away from your statement about a nuclear attack on California. I don't blame you for wanting to slide away from THAT.

    Not that it matters to anybody else but the earthquake wish is not OK with me. I have too many friends there and besides I like the fresh fruit from there that just won't grow here in the sub-arctic.
    Nope not sliding away from the nuke comment.. just saying the earthquake wish/ prayer was the basis for it.. updated .. and I really don't think it is said as a joke.. I do believe it is a sincere wish and heartfelt prayer .. and if you have heard it seen it.. you have to know, if you are honest, that at least for some, it is no joke. speaking of sliding away.... And liking the fresh fruit isn't about where it is grown , it's about who harvests it.. good luck on peaches or Vidalia onions from Georgia this year
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  28. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    In my WVA mind!
    Posts
    27,506

    Default

    Both would be devastating to say the least.
    Feathers...do not shame,
    it's the internal mental battles occurring after these confrontations...self-shaming not being able depress thoughts.
    As for who's responsible for ww1's tactics ....
    was old school military tactics tried and true...vs/ modern war technology!
    so superior to old tactics, approaches it took on a vastly stalemated contest of will "old vs new" !
    over, over again .
    ..not being changed nor being modifying by old school commanders....
    as the dead piled and was clear proof ignore....do or die!><> Dan
    Last edited by DK PHILLIPS; 04-19-2017 at 06:22 PM.

  29. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    San Francisco
    Posts
    6

    Default

    For more information about the Great War, search for Roads to the Great War for a daily blog by a very knowledgeable member to the World War I Historical Association (WWIHA).
    The blogs are well worth reading.

  30. #29
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    And liking the fresh fruit isn't about where it is grown , it's about who harvests it.. good luck on peaches or Vidalia onions from Georgia this year
    Sometimes it actually IS about where it is grown. Vidalia onions are the perfect example. That sucks about the peaches but I think the onions fared much better and will still be available.

  31. #30
    Clyde's Avatar
    Clyde is offline Gold Bullet Member and Noted Curmudgeon
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    74,609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    Nope not sliding away from the nuke comment.. just saying the earthquake wish/ prayer was the basis for it.. updated .. and I really don't think it is said as a joke.. I do believe it is a sincere wish and heartfelt prayer .. and if you have heard it seen it.. you have to know, if you are honest, that at least for some, it is no joke. speaking of sliding away.... And liking the fresh fruit isn't about where it is grown , it's about who harvests it.. good luck on peaches or Vidalia onions from Georgia this year
    Onions? We have 1015s from the Valley, as good as any Vidalia you ever ate.

    What is the problem with Georgia peaches this year?
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

  32. #31
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    155

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Onions? We have 1015s from the Valley, as good as any Vidalia you ever ate.

    What is the problem with Georgia peaches this year?
    They had some cold weather (for them) when the trees were budding and blooming. Some areas estimate up to 90 percent crop loss.

  33. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    4,474

    Default

    Good news for our Walla Wallas?
    I'm always looking for rare varieties of 9x18 ammunition.

  34. #33
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    Onions? We have 1015s from the Valley, as good as any Vidalia you ever ate.

    What is the problem with Georgia peaches this year?
    Can't find enough folks to bring in the harvest http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2017/02...vidalia-onion/ https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/09/u...kers.html?_r=0 http://www.agweb.com/article/farmers...ociated-press/

    They are talking about moving farms to Mexico and importing the food https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-to-trump-wall as well as growing varieties that are more machine friendly or selling them in way that hides the problem frozen strawberries instead of fresh

    and then there is this http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/cor.../13/id/773395/ 2.4 billion dollars worth of corn.. Mexico is not buying from us this year http://agnewsfeed.com/2017/03/27/mex...-corn-boycott/ http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN15W02K

    Lot of talk in the various Great War tv shows about the consequences of lack of food security , lack of farmers , starvation

    Them that's got shall have
    Them that's not shall lose
    So the Bible says and it still is news
    Mama may have, Papa may have
    But God bless the child that's got his own, that's got his own https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpN40V0s4_E

    then there is this https:[email protected]/arsen...r-25afacec9bd2

    not much written about it but the hard choice limited availability of nitrates, do you use what you got to fertilize the crops and feed your starving people or make gunpowder of various types including the all important smokeless nitrocellulose ?

    Whole reason we have Mexican field workers is we invented the program and brought them in to work the fields in wartime https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracero_program
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 04-19-2017 at 09:04 PM.
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  35. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    503

    Default

    I only caught the last episode on PBS but was very disappointed that they did not mention that Gen. Perishing was taken to court after the end of the war for deliberately causing the needless deaths of many of his men. He deliberately wrote vague orders on when the men were supposed to cease fighting leaving it up to the local Officers to decide to keep attacking the Germans even though everyone knew the armistice would be signed on the 11 Month, the 11th day and the 11 hour to end the hostilities. All of the rather small amount of territory gained was in the end given right back to the Germans. The parents of the young boys needlessly killed took Perishing to Court but because he was a popular General the court white washed the whole episode and protected him and swept it all under the rug. A very good book that describes all the horrors of this boondoggle is: https://www.amazon.com/Eleventh-Mont.../dp/0375760458

    Many scholars claim that if the U.S. had stayed out of WWI the war would have dragged on a least another 6 months which would have given Germany a much better bargaining position when they signed the Versailles Treaty. Because the Treaty was grossly unfair it sowed the seeds for WWII and it made it much easier for a nut case like Hitler to assume power.

  36. #35
    Clyde's Avatar
    Clyde is offline Gold Bullet Member and Noted Curmudgeon
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    74,609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bph9 View Post
    I only caught the last episode on PBS but was very disappointed that they did not mention that Gen. Perishing was taken to court after the end of the war for deliberately causing the needless deaths of many of his men. He deliberately wrote vague orders on when the men were supposed to cease fighting leaving it up to the local Officers to decide to keep attacking the Germans even though everyone knew the armistice would be signed on the 11 Month, the 11th day and the 11 hour to end the hostilities. All of the rather small amount of territory gained was in the end given right back to the Germans. The parents of the young boys needlessly killed took Perishing to Court but because he was a popular General the court white washed the whole episode and protected him and swept it all under the rug. A very good book that describes all the horrors of this boondoggle is: https://www.amazon.com/Eleventh-Mont.../dp/0375760458

    Many scholars claim that if the U.S. had stayed out of WWI the war would have dragged on a least another 6 months which would have given Germany a much better bargaining position when they signed the Versailles Treaty. Because the Treaty was grossly unfair it sowed the seeds for WWII and it made it much easier for a nut case like Hitler to assume power.
    The French wanted, and got, revenge. Bioth for 1870 and 1914. Sometimes getting what you think you want doesn't work out well, since the Germans wanted retribution for Versailles. And got it. Should have tried harder to cut a deal with Britain after June, 40.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

  37. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Beach Va, not Va Beach
    Posts
    23,585

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nonobadog View Post
    They had some cold weather (for them) when the trees were budding and blooming. Some areas estimate up to 90 percent crop loss.
    peaches in these parts start with the ones from Ga, but then move on to SC, NC and VA,
    get some from NJ as well,
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

  38. #37
    Clyde's Avatar
    Clyde is offline Gold Bullet Member and Noted Curmudgeon
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    74,609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyman1903 View Post
    peaches in these parts start with the ones from Ga, but then move on to SC, NC and VA,
    get some from NJ as well,
    And unless things have changed frm the last time i was up that way, some mighty fine ones from the Sussequenna Valley, i both Maryland and Pennsylvania. Mid to late August saw road-side stands bear orchards with ripes as big as a doft ball and juicy and flavorful - take a hand towel along to tuck in to prevent you shirt from catching it when eating them.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

  39. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David Murvihill View Post
    I've read about the white feathers. Some men who were rejected because they were in vital industries requested the government issue a badge so they would not be accosted.
    This behavior from WWI had an impact in the following war. One of my now deceased friends, graduated from high school in 1943 at age 16. Shortly thereafter he joined the US Navy. He Did 13 amphibious landings in the Pacific, always in the first wave and was badly hurt at Okinawa. I asked him why he went in so young, and he said because he did not want some pretty young woman to hand him a white feather.

  40. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bph9 View Post
    I only caught the last episode on PBS but was very disappointed that they did not mention that Gen. Perishing was taken to court after the end of the war for deliberately causing the needless deaths of many of his men. He deliberately wrote vague orders on when the men were supposed to cease fighting leaving it up to the local Officers to decide to keep attacking the Germans even though everyone knew the armistice would be signed on the 11 Month, the 11th day and the 11 hour to end the hostilities. All of the rather small amount of territory gained was in the end given right back to the Germans. The parents of the young boys needlessly killed took Perishing to Court but because he was a popular General the court white washed the whole episode and protected him and swept it all under the rug. A very good book that describes all the horrors of this boondoggle is: https://www.amazon.com/Eleventh-Mont.../dp/0375760458

    Many scholars claim that if the U.S. had stayed out of WWI the war would have dragged on a least another 6 months which would have given Germany a much better bargaining position when they signed the Versailles Treaty. Because the Treaty was grossly unfair it sowed the seeds for WWII and it made it much easier for a nut case like Hitler to assume power.
    The Battle lines on 11/11/18 were still in Belgium and Luxemburg .. any ground Pershing gained on the last day was not given back to the Germans.

    11/11/18 was an armistice temporary ceasefire not the end of the war.. the Allies would occasionally threaten to resume the active fighting throughout the negotiations of the Versailles Treaty, and It was an option. Pershing was openly in favor of fighting on until an unconditional surrender, a few agreed with him them, many agreed with him by the time WW2 started .. however it was not US policy at the time.. he almost got a letter of reprimand for pushing it a bit too far politically ( He wrote a letter ). He did order his troops to keep fighting on the last day until the cease fire took effect.. there were casualties .. I can find no information on any trial.. there certainly was no Courts Martial, rather Pershing was appointed to the highest rank possible in the US Military .. apparently over the years we have had different rank structures so there is some dispute if Pershing outranked Washington . Pershing rank was conferred as a permanent rank US Army.. some debate Washington's rank was temporary or something like that, Gold Stars V Silver Stars, and if 4 Gold Stars outrank 5 Silver Stars... I'll leave that to the historians. The point being Congress awarded Pershing the highest honor they had.. he was not punished or reprimanded for fighting on the last day until the last minute of the last hour and taking casualties.

    But it isn't a whitewash to shut down an attempt to try a serving military office in a civilian court by parents after a war. Unless you want every soldier to have to get a permission slip to be wounded or die from his mommy before he can sign up or go into battle. It's kind of like today I suppose.. civilians don't know the difference between an armistice and a Victory.. the reason it is even somewhat important today is because it is exactly what we have on the Korean Peninsula.. we are at war with North Korea .. no further authorization needed for the Commander in Chief to take any and all military action he might desire against North Korea.. personally, I think he should coordinate with South Korea and our allies first.. but near as I can tell .. any North Korea twitch , missile launch, bomb test , and all bets are off...

    As it was the failure to go for a total military victory as Pershing and a few others wanted . Accepting instead a negotiated political end to a war with roughly 38 million military and civilian casualties, is what cost the world another 50 to 80 million in WW2, and allowed the Nazi's to come to power on the back of claims the German Army was never defeated in the field , but was rather stabbed in the back by folks at home the Jews, Communists ,Intellectuals , and anybody else who was tired of seeing the German People die from mass starvation and whined about it.

    Going for total military Victory back then would have been much more doable than Patton's wanting to take out the Commies at the end of WW2 . Spanish Flu not withstanding.
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 04-20-2017 at 01:02 AM.
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  41. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    24

    Default

    I watched that program it was very informative, had a lot of info I had not been aware of. I'd recommend it to anyone interested in WW 1

  42. #41
    Clyde's Avatar
    Clyde is offline Gold Bullet Member and Noted Curmudgeon
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    74,609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    The Battle lines on 11/11/18 were still in Belgium and Luxemburg .. any ground Pershing gained on the last day was not given back to the Germans.

    11/11/18 was an armistice temporary ceasefire not the end of the war.. the Allies would occasionally threaten to resume the active fighting throughout the negotiations of the Versailles Treaty, and It was an option. Pershing was openly in favor of fighting on until an unconditional surrender, a few agreed with him them, many agreed with him by the time WW2 started .. however it was not US policy at the time.. he almost got a letter of reprimand for pushing it a bit too far politically ( He wrote a letter ). He did order his troops to keep fighting on the last day until the cease fire took effect.. there were casualties .. I can find no information on any trial.. there certainly was no Courts Martial, rather Pershing was appointed to the highest rank possible in the US Military .. apparently over the years we have had different rank structures so there is some dispute if Pershing outranked Washington . Pershing rank was conferred as a permanent rank US Army.. some debate Washington's rank was temporary or something like that, Gold Stars V Silver Stars, and if 4 Gold Stars outrank 5 Silver Stars... I'll leave that to the historians. The point being Congress awarded Pershing the highest honor they had.. he was not punished or reprimanded for fighting on the last day until the last minute of the last hour and taking casualties.

    But it isn't a whitewash to shut down an attempt to try a serving military office in a civilian court by parents after a war. Unless you want every soldier to have to get a permission slip to be wounded or die from his mommy before he can sign up or go into battle. It's kind of like today I suppose.. civilians don't know the difference between an armistice and a Victory.. the reason it is even somewhat important today is because it is exactly what we have on the Korean Peninsula.. we are at war with North Korea .. no further authorization needed for the Commander in Chief to take any and all military action he might desire against North Korea.. personally, I think he should coordinate with South Korea and our allies first.. but near as I can tell .. any North Korea twitch , missile launch, bomb test , and all bets are off...

    As it was the failure to go for a total military victory as Pershing and a few others wanted . Accepting instead a negotiated political end to a war with roughly 38 million military and civilian casualties, is what cost the world another 50 to 80 million in WW2, and allowed the Nazi's to come to power on the back of claims the German Army was never defeated in the field , but was rather stabbed in the back by folks at home the Jews, Communists ,Intellectuals , and anybody else who was tired of seeing the German People die from mass starvation and whined about it.

    Going for total military Victory back then would have been much more doable than Patton's wanting to take out the Commies at the end of WW2 . Spanish Flu not withstanding.
    1. No real way to compare Washington and Pershing as to rank. We simply did things differently in late XVIIth Century and early XXth. I know that in the military history courses I took in ROTC in the -60s, Washington was deemed the highest ranking officer in Army history, and Pershing next. Some arguments about where Grant fit. Generally agreed that the Five Stars of War Two fell below Washington and Pershing, and the dates of rank established who was senior. Different Army, different government structure, different time.

    2. No way was conflict going to resume after 11/11/18, whatever anybody threatened as a negotiating tool. Nor were the folks back home going to accept a continuation of operations (nor were, likely, many of the troops, whatever some generals suggested) for long after an armistice offer became known. And - while it was officially "only" a cease-fire until the terms of peace were worked out, it was really a surrender by the Central powers, especially the Germans. Ah well, sometimes words may count.
    Last edited by Clyde; 04-20-2017 at 08:54 PM.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

  43. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    10,000

    Default

    Clyde.. yeah.. probably not, maybe just a negotiating tactic .. but somebody thought it was a credible enough threat to make it. be a helluva time to get your bluff called, and that had to be a consideration before making the threat.. I mean, that's an all or nothing can't take it back threat.. and credible enough at the time for it to have worked, even if it was 99% bluff and the Germans knew it they couldn't afford that 1%

    Brits might say.. "well played " The Brits to some degree, but especially the French were conveying a very aggressive and punitive posture at the negotiations .. probably lacked that sine qua non of war weariness that would have tipped the Germans to a bluff, probably more than a wiff of hatred bordering on madness that sold it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSGkBWYDmrM
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 04-20-2017 at 03:39 PM.
    "It's frightening to think that you might not know something, but more frightening to think that, by and large, the world is run by people who have faith that they know exactly what's going on."
    Amos Tversky




    Vote John Galt for President

  44. #43
    Clyde's Avatar
    Clyde is offline Gold Bullet Member and Noted Curmudgeon
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    East Texas
    Posts
    74,609

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    Clyde.. yeah.. probably not, maybe just a negotiating tactic .. but somebody thought it was a credible enough threat to make it. be a helluva time to get your bluff called, and that had to be a consideration before making the threat.. I mean, that's an all or nothing can't take it back threat.. and credible enough at the time for it to have worked, even if it was 99% bluff and the Germans knew it they couldn't afford that 1%

    Brits might say.. "well played " The Brits to some degree, but especially the French were conveying a very aggressive and punitive posture at the negotiations .. probably lacked that sine qua non of war weariness that would have tipped the Germans to a bluff, probably more than a wiff of hatred bordering on madness that sold it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSGkBWYDmrM
    Yes, all of that. And - with the blockade continuing and German babies starving (as if the French would have cared about that), And the HSF anchored at Scapa... well, the Germans couldn't have resisted much, the Allies had all those fresh Amis, the Germans couldn't (didn't) take a chance and knuckled under at the negotiations. And started planning revenge (Rache!) before the ink was dry. Mistake on the part of all parties IMO, but asking other behavior is probably just a bit much.
    Last edited by Clyde; 04-20-2017 at 08:54 PM.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

  45. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    643

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    .. I recently caught up to date on watching the Great War series on You Tube....



    I am really enjoying it...
    Me too. Thanks for the lead.
    Although, it would be interesting if it started with Sino-Japanese relations. Maybe another series.
    As I explored the series further, I see this area is covered. Very comprehensive and impressive series for this layman.
    Last edited by martinbanner; 04-21-2017 at 12:38 AM.

  46. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    27,899

    Default

    Back to the feathers. I have seen the flick Four Feathers. How many of you know about Three Feathers? Ahah-gotcha.

    It is a brand of rye whiskey. My Aunt Winnifred used to get rather fierce into a fifth of this stuff from time to time.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails threefeathers.jpg  

    "Don't you have anything better to do than to troll gunboards"? Mauserboy48

    "But broadly accurate, probably." Clyde

    -produced by- Shameless Self-Promotions Inc. All rights reserved

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •