Info on my S/147/G K98, vet bring back? *PIC HEAVY*
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Thread: Info on my S/147/G K98, vet bring back? *PIC HEAVY*

  1. #1
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    Default Info on my S/147/G K98, vet bring back? *PIC HEAVY*

    I paid a handsome penny for this months back and am getting around to researching it. I wanted an unmolested early K98 and I think I got one. Lots of pics. Was hoping for some info from the K98 guru's, i'm a bit frosty in this area. Bore is pristine, sharp and looks unfired. Blue is downright gorgeous for a Military arm. It is a mix master, but the handguard and stock/buttplate do match each other and feature some early birdies. There is still lots of grease under the wood line, i'm assuming this is pretty old grease. It'll remain that way. The barrel is unmarked, any ideas there? I know the barrel bands are also from a later produced rifle. Was all this work done to it during it's time in service? I can only imagine such an early rifle saw a lot of use. It is of course, non import marked and I can only assume it's a bring back. Without fuhrer adieu (sorry I had to).........





































































    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson

  2. #2
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    In short, the rifle has issues. How much is "a pretty penny"?
    "And I will show you, where the Iron Crosses grow."

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    I don't think that's a German barrel. Looks like a Yugo replacement.
    Mark

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  5. #4
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    To be frank, I think unmolested is about as far from the case as possible. It is a total mix of parts, and has a post war Yugoslavian replacement barrel (BK mark). So there is no way to say not an import, or vet bring back since the original barrel could have been import stamped before it was replaced. I would think the various parts were most likely put together here in the USA. Having said that, the newer Yugoslavian barrel should make it a good shooter, but I hope the "pretty penny" amount was not too high.

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    Yikes! comes to mind..the seller needs a long walk off a short plank..

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    Sure does pay to get opinions from folks "in the know" before jumping in. Hope the price was not too painful.

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    Wow! I was hoping to wake up to some better news. Thank you for the information. I paid $1050 for it.
    I still like it though, guess that's life. One thing that's curious is the amount of grease under the wood line.
    Before disassembly it looks like it hadn't been taken apart in a long time, the grease "seal" if you will was undisturbed. Any other possibilities? I'm almost for certain the Yugo's wouldn't of left the rifle in his current condition and would have either swapped stocks or refinished the entire gun. The dulled blue on the receiver
    looks like wear from a padded action wrench.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson

  9. #8
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    Sorry for the bad news.
    Years ago I bought 20 of these Yugo barrels with the correct K98 German marked sights. They had thousands in stock and were selling them for something like $5.00 apiece. Some were pristine...others not so much....all had excellent to good bores. I pulled the sights off the marginal barrels and sold those at guns shows. I probably rebarreled a dozen imports with crappy bores and in doing so....the import marks went away. I'm thinking that may be the case with your rifle. Someone back when looking to bring new life to an old rifle.....or barreled action that was put together with a grab bag of parts.
    Paragon also had K98 stock sets with all the metal for $15.00...that was back in the late 80's....
    Anyway.....you seem happy with your purchase and that's what matters.
    Let us know how it shoots.
    Mark

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    Am I correct in that the stock and handguard are early JP sauer production? Stock takedown disc read WaA116. I still think this was a bring back, and if thats the case such an early rifle would have had a very used bore (more than likely) and someone wanted to breathe some life back into it. They did a good job, can't complain there. And it is what it is, an otherwise very nice K98 with a replacement Yugo barrel.

    I'll likely keep it but i'd prefer an unmolested Russian capture at this point. At least the Russian refurbing is part of the weapons history before it came to US shores. I'm kind of funny like that, the "historical" stuff stops once it reaches the first owners hands.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson

  11. #10
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    Hello,

    yeah the receiver has been buffed to probably remove the RC X. 1050 wow best to run any future rifles pass the forum as I am sorry got hammered on this purchased.

    later
    vaughn
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  12. #11
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    Are you sure the receiver has been polished out? WOW maybe this was assembled from parts. I think
    I'm just going to sell it and take a loss. Any idea what it's worth?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson

  13. #12
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    Interesting early receiver, but a rifle assembled from parts, probably in the U.S.
    Value equal to an RC in my opinion.

  14. #13
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    This rifle is worth the sum of it's parts, or maybe as a representative shooter. Maybe $500 on a good day. I have to ask, you were looking for an unmolested rifle and you didn't notice there are virtually no matching serial numbers on this piece?

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    I assumed it had most of its parts replaced during service and I assumed that because it being such
    an early rifle. It was really my bad for not paying closer attention. Does anyone else think the receiver looks
    buffed out?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson

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    Whew, in your first post "I wanted an unmolested early K98 and I think I got one." "Bore is pristine, sharp and looks unfired," ( of course it is a new replacement Yugo!!). Then you say: "It is a mix master, but the handguard and stock/buttplate do match." Unmolested and Mixmaster are never in the same sentence !!! I can only hope you are pulling our collective legs! You really paid $1,050 for this rifle!! I think the $500 is charitable. Please take this in the sprit it is given: Find some experienced gun friends, find some gun show buddies, (leave your money at home for a while), Buy a couple good books, haunt the Boards here, ask questions (before you buy if possible). Your comment "...but i'd prefer an unmolested Russian capture at this point." I think as others have observed that is what you have. Actually most RC's have original barrels (nothing else matches, like yours) and can be had for about half what you paid. As I have pointed out to others, maybe your $1k spent is not a lot of money, a nice Friday night out with the family, hopefully you are in that category and did not get hurt too badly. I doubt if there is a person on this board (me included) who hasn't made a mistake or two. Enjoy your new rifle. Skid

  17. #16
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    No, what I need is a buddy skilled with K98's of which I have always been rusty on.
    I've owned Enfields, Mosin's, Finns, Exotic mannlichers, lebels and berthiers, a few Mas 36 rifles, Schmidt Rubins and K31's, rare handguns, all correct Springfields, Garands, carbines and just about all else you can imagine.
    Never got into K98's and they seem to command a knowledge library all their own. Course the same rules of serialization apply to all MilSurps I honestly believed this one was just a well used war vet that had been mix mastered during its service history. I see something I want I just buy it, especially if I get a little over excited like I did with this one. And when I say unmolsted I mean a rifle that has not been altered from its military config by civilian hands. Some folks consider an RC molested but I'm one who believes it's part of their history and the shellac should stay. It's just my preference that's all all, knowing this one is from a pile of parts turns me off.
    Its funny how most garand collectors just enjoy their rifles as is, as so few are actually totally correct. But like I said K98 rifles are their own breed and the collectors market is a unique one, very stringent and I like that.

    Ill keep the rifle because cause I want a shooter, and chalk this up as a good lesson learned!
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson

  18. #17
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    Even well used, in German service, K98ks will not be "mix masters". This myth has been used for years to pawn parts guns on the unsuspecting.

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    I find the whole thing frustrating...I've tried and failed to sell an almost all matching k98k (un-numbered safety lever) that's been lightly sporterized and can't get what I need from it even at a loss.
    I did pay too much, the seller showed pics that hid/minimized the flawed stock work but I figured I would just bite the bullet and take a $200 loss and move it on.
    Problem is nobody will go $600 on it!
    Pretty good looking rifle too..oh well, life sure is funny sometimes.

  20. #19
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    I feel for you 4077. I was in your shoes about a month or so ago. I was considering a mix master RC K98 that was posted locally for $600. Fortunately, I posted pictures and was steered I'm the right direction to a mostly matching (bolt doesn't match the rifle, but matches to itself) 1937 S/42 for a little more (~$850). It's a little disheartening to see that fraud and forgeries are so prevalent in the K98 world. It seems like if the rifle was messed with in any form (parts redone/refinished, sporterized, etc), it kills the value. It always could be worse. You could've bought a Mitchell's and shelled out a lot more pretty pennies for it...

    I'm curious to how the seller marketed/presented this rifle
    Last edited by ltong29; 04-20-2017 at 01:24 PM.

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    Here is the original auction, I paid $950 but after shipping and my local transfer fee etc I had a around $1050 tied into it. I emailed him yesterday and his reply was basically go F myself. If you look at the pics, he took great photo's all the markings. I just wasn't educated enough on K98's to know what was up. http://www.gunbroker.com/item/618740974

    I've decided just to sell it, $500 bucks. My loss. Going to post it up later.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4077th View Post
    Here is the original auction, I paid $950 but after shipping and my local transfer fee etc I had a around $1050 tied into it. I emailed him yesterday and his reply was basically go F myself. If you look at the pics, he took great photo's all the markings. I just wasn't educated enough on K98's to know what was up. http://www.gunbroker.com/item/618740974

    I've decided just to sell it, $500 bucks. My loss. Going to post it up later.
    I had a guy offer me quite a bit for this 147/S K RC I bought a long time ago. Its a usual RC mixmaster except the barrel and front sight match, later laminate stock as well. When I asked why he wanted it he said he had a proper stock and he was going to grind/restamp/reblue and sell it for a lot of money on GB. I ended up just keeping it, its a great shooter and looks good where it sits

    To be fair though the seller provided a lot of pics of that rifle and didnt really say anything except it had a very good bore and it was low production, which is true I guess. I've overpaid on GB because it was something I 'wanted forever' and didnt do the research.

    Myself I would keep yours, shoot it and learn what you can about K98s until a decent deal comes up then sell it. You wont be able to replace it with something nicer for what you can sell it for anyhow. Yes you overpaid but may as well get some use out of it, if you liked it enough to pay that much then just hang it on the wall as a reminder. It doesnt look that bad..
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0866.jpg  
    Last edited by kj53; 04-20-2017 at 04:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kj53 View Post
    I had a guy offer me quite a bit for this 147/S K RC I bought a long time ago. Its a usual RC mixmaster except the barrel and front sight match, later laminate stock as well. When I asked why he wanted it he said he had a proper stock and he was going to grind/restamp/reblue and sell it for a lot of money on GB. I ended up just keeping it, its a great shooter and looks good where it sits

    Myself I would keep yours, shoot it and learn what you can about K98s until a decent deal comes up then sell it. You wont be able to replace it with something nicer for what you can sell it for anyhow. Yes you overpaid but may as well get some use out of it, if you liked it enough to pay that much then just hang it on the wall as a reminder. It doesnt look that bad..
    I can't speak for the OP but I think that a "reminder" of this rifle and the mistakes he made is the very last thing he wants. It's a little bit like breaking up with a bad girlfriend or divorcing a horrible wife. You want them gone, ASAP, and the costs incurred are of lesser importance than moving on and putting a regrettable mistake in the past.

    I'm sorry for the OP, understand how he feels and I respect his willingness to take his lumps like a big boy.
    Purists of the world, unite!

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    Samuel Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard in NY* View Post
    I can't speak for the OP but I think that a "reminder" of this rifle and the mistakes he made is the very last thing he wants. It's a little bit like breaking up with a bad girlfriend or divorcing a horrible wife. You want them gone, ASAP, and the costs incurred are of lesser importance than moving on and putting a regrettable mistake in the past.

    I'm sorry for the OP, understand how he feels and I respect his willingness to move on.
    Everyone makes mistakes, I still have a couple rifles that I way overpaid for because there was no internet when I bought them that sit proudly lol. Funny thing is they are worth way more that what I paid for them nowadays, but I stilll keep them as a reminder to think before I buy..

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    If it was me I would just sell it again on gunbroker.Someone wanted it almost as bad as you.It really it a mess,It must be the receiver code that drove the price up that high.Just because it is not what you we're hoping it was doesn't mean the other bidders didn't know exactly what they were bidding on.Some people just collect receiver codes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kj53 View Post
    Everyone makes mistakes, I still have a couple rifles that I way overpaid for because there was no internet when I bought them that sit proudly lol. Funny thing is they are worth way more that what I paid for them nowadays, but I stilll keep them as a reminder to think before I buy..
    And you're not wrong for keeping them if that's the way you chose to deal with your mistakes. It's a subjective matter and people will choose differently. I just believe that the OP probably finds it painful to look at this rifle and wants it gone ASAP.
    Purists of the world, unite!

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    Samuel Adams

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    Quote Originally Posted by kj53 View Post
    I had a guy offer me quite a bit for this 147/S K RC I bought a long time ago. Its a usual RC mixmaster except the barrel and front sight match, later laminate stock as well. When I asked why he wanted it he said he had a proper stock and he was going to grind/restamp/reblue and sell it for a lot of money on GB. I ended up just keeping it, its a great shooter and looks good where it sits

    To be fair though the seller provided a lot of pics of that rifle and didnt really say anything except it had a very good bore and it was low production, which is true I guess. I've overpaid on GB because it was something I 'wanted forever' and didnt do the research.

    Myself I would keep yours, shoot it and learn what you can about K98s until a decent deal comes up then sell it. You wont be able to replace it with something nicer for what you can sell it for anyhow. Yes you overpaid but may as well get some use out of it, if you liked it enough to pay that much then just hang it on the wall as a reminder. It doesnt look that bad..
    Wow that's really shady. At least he was being honest about being dishonest... In general I'm super hesitant to but a K98 off GunBroker.

    OP, just relist it on GunBroker. If Sweaty Ben can move junk K98s at $1k+, you probably won't do too bad. You'll probably get more money there than listing it here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard in NY* View Post
    And you're not wrong for keeping them if that's the way you chose to deal with your mistakes. It's a subjective matter and people will choose differently. I just believe that the OP probably finds it painful to look at this rifle and wants it gone ASAP.
    Agree, everyone deals with mistakes different.

  29. #28
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    I won't add insult to injury, but the above folks are correct that you overpaid badly, by at least 2X what it is worth.

    But it is still a German K98 with a good bore, would probably make a good shooter. Why not keep it and shoot it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltong29 View Post
    Wow that's really shady. At least he was being honest about being dishonest... In general I'm super hesitant to but a K98 off GunBroker.

    OP, just relist it on GunBroker. If Sweaty Ben can move junk K98s at $1k+, you probably won't do too bad. You'll probably get more money there than listing it here.
    Before he told me that I was pretty impressed with his WWII rifles, they were all 'mint' and matching number, now I know why lol.

  31. #30
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    I appreciate the OP's candor and honesty in publicly acknowledging his error here. Many people in the collector realms will always portray themselves as clever, astute, above the fray, and always negotiating buys to the bottom dollar and selling for big profits. This is in direct contrast to the actual reality that they have been in the OP's shoes before and overpaid, undersold, or been fleeced badly a time or two themselves.

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    Applause to the OP for taking the bad news much better than most. Everyone gets burned at some point in this hobby, myself included.

  33. #32

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    I had a similar situation with a "Standard Modell" Banner Mauser a few years ago. Got sucked in by the beautiful stock and didn't notice some pretty significant issues with the rifle.

    I saw your listing; you might take it out to the range and see if it redeems itself. It may not be a $1k gun, but it may be worth more as a shooter than you'll get out of it in a quick sale.

  34. #33
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    Don't bid on auctions with the word "rare" in the title.

    I'm being serious, this is a huge red flag.
    The word is used to suck in people without a large amount of knowledge.
    If it's really rare, those that know it know it, it doesn't need advertised.

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    I guess I'm not too upset because I have also scored really well on Gunbroker. I picked up a Steyr M95
    long rifle, excellent non refurb non import marked for $300 around the same time as this K98.

    I don't wish to to hold onto the K98 mostly because I like to fill the safe with stuff that tickles my pickle, which is any surplus firearm that hasn't been over messed with and is Shootwble.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure." -Thomas Jefferson

  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4077th View Post
    I guess I'm not too upset because I have also scored really well on Gunbroker. I picked up a Steyr M95
    long rifle, excellent non refurb non import marked for $300 around the same time as this K98.

    I don't wish to to hold onto the K98 mostly because I like to fill the safe with stuff that tickles my pickle, which is any surplus firearm that hasn't been over messed with and is Shootwble.
    Sounds like you averaged out pretty well

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