Izhevsk 1944 PU 91/30
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Thread: Izhevsk 1944 PU 91/30

  1. #1
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    Default Izhevsk 1944 PU 91/30

    Please advice what do you think about this rifle.

    Seller said that the rifle, mount and scope is 100% WW2 original sniper rig and that it was refurbished in Ishevsk factory in 1964, barrel is like mirror he said.

    I don`t see any WW2 markings on scope besides N0696 19 X mark in square 64, maybe the scope was replaced in 1964? and what does the X and square mean? Or maybe on some WW2 PU scopes there are no marks? I`m no expert in this matter, so please advice.
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  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Default Izhevsk 1944 PU 91/30

    X in the square is a refurb/repair mark. 1964 is the year they refurbed it. At that time the added new serial on scope. Can't really tell by the picture but looks like the original scope serial on the shank was removed by grinding. If that's the case it's an original sniper. Bolt and mag plate also refurbed and restamped to match the rest. Who's the importer btw? Other than that typical refurbed pu sniper. How much the guy is asking?


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  5. #4
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    As said, a refurbished Red Army scope, probably refurbed at the Kiev Arsenal Optics plant with new coated lenses and new lens glue as well as reblued. All good. I can't see much on the rifle or mount on my small screen here.

    This looks like a nice refurbished sniper if you can see clearly where the old scope number was ground off. It also could be one somebody rescoped.


    i
    Quote Originally Posted by pavlin View Post
    X in the square is a refurb/repair mark. 1964 is the year they refurbed it. At that time the added new serial on scope. Can't really tell by the picture but looks like the original scope serial on the shank was removed by grinding. If that's the case it's an original sniper. Bolt and mag plate also refurbed and restamped to match the rest. Who's the importer btw? Other than that typical refurbed pu sniper. How much the guy is asking?


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  6. #5
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    Price is 1000 Euro.

  7. #6
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    Tom, I don't think the stock is original to the rifle, if that matters to you.

  8. #7
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    Didn't realize you are in Europe but wow!!! That's almost $1100 for the rifle with matched parts, it's a lot in my opinion. However I ve seen worse go for more here in the US. Again not sure what European market is like for pu snipers
    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcRei View Post
    Price is 1000 Euro.

  9. #8
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    QUOTE=Stalin's Ghost;6745490] This looks like a nice refurbished sniper if you can see clearly where the old scope number was ground off. It also could be one somebody rescoped. i[/QUOTE]

    On this point, if there is re scoping ex snipers over in Europe, then this rifle enters the suspicion category. Don't know how expensive or elusive PU snipers are in Europe but if the market is reasonable and they exist to find, I'd suggest looking for an example that still retains the old scope number on the barrel .

    This is what Old ZeeBill warned us about: once you start re scoping, you put suspect rifles into the population and it makes it really tough to determine if its a legit PU or a rebuilt ex PU sniper.

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    On this point, if there is re scoping ex snipers over in Europe, then this rifle enters the suspicion category. Don't know how expensive or elusive PU snipers are in Europe but if the market is reasonable and they exist to find, I'd suggest looking for an example that still retains the old scope number on the barrel .

    This is what Old ZeeBill warned us about: once you start re scoping, you put suspect rifles into the population and it makes it really tough to determine if its a legit PU or a rebuilt ex PU sniper.
    This one passes the smell test, however. One reason being that rescoped exes are seldom if ever seen in original PU stocks.

    EDIT: sorry for the confusion on the initial iteration of this reply: somehow parts of different peoples' quotes had gotten outside the quote box. Gotta love trying to post on these forums nowadays.
    Last edited by Ol' Relic; 04-29-2017 at 06:47 AM.







  11. #10
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    Ol' Relic,

    Ah, shouldn't this '44 Izhvesk have the pressed in sling slot protectors, rather than the half pieces? Sure it is a "sniper" stock, but it's not right for this '44. I have my doubts about this rifle especially for 1000 euro's.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montana Bearbait View Post
    Ol' Relic,

    Ah, shouldn't this '44 Izhvesk have the pressed in sling slot protectors, rather than the half pieces? Sure it is a "sniper" stock, but it's not right for this '44. I have my doubts about this rifle especially for 1000 euro's.
    It's an early 1944 PU stock (ИЛ acceptance mark still visible). Could be original to the rifle, but since the rifle is a refurb, the stock and everything else beyond the barreled receiver were probably originally on a different rifle and it just happened to end up in an early '44 stock again through chance.







  13. #12
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    If the smell test clears this weapon, then is $1100 (US) a fair price in Europe ? I think the ball park of refurb PU prices here in USA is about $800 to $1000 , depending on condition..Tulla or Izhevsk markings. In 2008 the R Guns refurbs were pushing $900 .

    $1100 might not be out of reason for a PU in Europe ..my guess. If PU are not coming out of Ukraine to Europe, then supply is down and prices are up. Same situation as here in USA at present time.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montana Bearbait View Post
    Ol' Relic,

    Ah, shouldn't this '44 Izhvesk have the pressed in sling slot protectors, rather than the half pieces? Sure it is a "sniper" stock, but it's not right for this '44. I have my doubts about this rifle especially for 1000 euro's.
    Early 44 PU snipers still used the half lines. Full liners started sometime in 1944 but not at the beginning of the year.

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by msniper19 View Post
    Early 44 PU snipers still used the half lines. Full liners started sometime in 1944 but not at the beginning of the year.
    Well being as it is, a refurb, it's perfectly normal not to have the original stock.

    I have a '44 Izhvesk, PU that was made roughly 8,000 rifles before the OP's. It wears it's original stock, which has the full pressed liners.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montana Bearbait View Post
    Well being as it is, a refurb, it's perfectly normal not to have the original stock.

    I have a '44 Izhvesk, PU that was made roughly 8,000 rifles before the OP's. It wears it's original stock, which has the full pressed liners.
    It is possible for both to be correct. Production was not totally linear.

    I have a non-refurb factory matching rifle that is an A block 1944 and it has half liners. So sometime in 1944 it was changed. I don't know exactly when. The OP's rifle and yours (if I am seeing it correct) are n blocks which is P in English. So not really early. Your rifle is more correct with the full liners.

  17. #16
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    [QUOTE=msniper19;6756906]It is possible for both to be correct. Production was not totally linear.

    I have a non-refurb factory matching rifle that is an A block 1944 and it has half liners. So sometime in 1944 it was changed. I don't know exactly when. The OP's rifle and yours (if I am seeing it correct) are n blocks which is P in English. So not really early. Your rifle is more correct with the full liners.[/QUOTE

    Matt makes good points. Like almost all guns made wartime, there was a transition of features and not #1111 was one way and #1112 was another. Stuff was phased in and out, not with a cutoff serial number. It is not clear and cut.

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by msniper19 View Post
    It is possible for both to be correct. Production was not totally linear.

    I have a non-refurb factory matching rifle that is an A block 1944 and it has half liners. So sometime in 1944 it was changed. I don't know exactly when. The OP's rifle and yours (if I am seeing it correct) are n blocks which is P in English. So not really early. Your rifle is more correct with the full liners.
    Yes, it is in the "A" block, the OP's is in the "B" block.

    Well, I know more now than I did before, and that's why I come here. Non linear, in the rush of war time production, makes perfect sense to me.
    It would be nice to see the serial numbers, so that we could see if the font matches.

  19. #18
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    I bought the gun and I like it

    Serial numbers.

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    Used acetone to get rid of horrible cosmoline look, and finished stock the way I like it with the mix of wax.

    I took it to shooting range, after minor adjustments and zeroing the rifle, accuracy is pretty decent in my opinion.

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    Below pic of shooting target, shooting distance 100 meters, it is my first rifle ever so I think that 1 of 4 shots on target is a shooters mistake.

    I`ve used Russian Barnaul FMJ 174r non-corrosive lacquered steel case ammo.

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    Cheers
    Last edited by TomMcRei; 05-06-2017 at 04:14 PM.

  20. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomMcRei View Post
    I bought the gun and I like it

    Serial numbers.

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    Used acetone to get rid of horrible cosmoline look, and finished stock the way I like it with the mix of wax.

    I took it to shooting range, after minor adjustments and zeroing the rifle, accuracy is pretty decent in my opinion.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Below pic of shooting target, shooting distance 100 meters, it is my first rifle ever so I think that 1 of 4 shots on target is a shooters mistake.

    I`ve used Russian Barnaul FMJ 174r non-corrosive lacquered steel case ammo.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Cheers
    Good shooting Tom!

  21. #20
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    Additional pictures of stock. There are a lot of signatures and markings, help will be needed to identify.

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  22. #21
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    The smaller marks I can't help you with. Someone somewhere may know what they all mean, but then again it may be lost to history. They're proof marks used during manufacture to confirm that various processes were performed satisfactorily.

    The large circular cartouche on the right side of the buttstock is basically a Soviet crest, used by Izhevsk as their manufacturing "logo". The smaller circle near it with "ИЛ" (Cyrillid "IL") is the acceptance mark, with that being the letters used for 1944 (likely the initials of some official in charge of inspection).







  23. #22
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    My SAMCO imported, ex-Yugoslavian Army, Soviet built 1944 Izhvesk PU, that is all original except the bolt, has the same" ИЛ" (Cyrillid "IL") acceptance mark". on it's stock.

    Tom, you forgot to post pictures of your new targets.

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