Spikes Tactical T2 Buffer
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Thread: Spikes Tactical T2 Buffer

  1. #1
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    Question Spikes Tactical T2 Buffer

    Condition: your M4 or rifle operated fine and then you tried a Spikes Tactical T2 buffer in them.

    Questions: Has anyone tested this on a M4 16' barrel carbine (carbine gas system) or a 18 inch barrel carbine (rifle gas system) ?

    What did you notice on recoil when using common factory 55 gr ammo ?

    What did you notice different in performance / function of your weapons?

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    My thoughts are a 18 barrel and rifle gas system ought to produce less port pressure than a 20 rifle version, for that reason I'm not worrying about heavier buffers in my 18/rifle gas build (PSA upper). However if you want to try a PSA H buffer I can send you one and you can report how you like it (it will be 3.7 oz VS 4 though). You can try it and then return it whenever you are done.
    When your smiling the whole world smiles with you

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    Mike,

    Here is the fog: Seen are unmarked buffers, H, H2, H3 marked buffers. Is there a H1?? Add to confusion is Spikes version of T1, T 2, T3. I see no chart that corresponds numbers , IE..H2 is T2. I see on internet sites multiple weights given for the H series which don't match Spikes exactly.

    I don't know what to make of it. All my carbines...LMT,COLT, Anderson came from factory with unmarked buffers. I put unmarked buffers in all my carbine builds. No problems with any weapon using unmarked buffer.

    It is not a problem but.....considering that carbine lenght gas system is over gassed , I spun the wheel of fortune and took a chance of a Spikes T2 to see how things shake out.

    What should I be seeing if I put a T2 on my Colt 6920 ? Milder recoil ? Less violent extraction?
    Brass flying less distance from rifle ? Barrel dipping a bit when bolt slams forward to chamber round due to heavier buffer ?

    I'd like to know what I am going to gain and see for results with trying to address Over Gassed carbine with a heavier buffer.

    I had no issues with any carbine..factory made or a build. I bought the Spikes T2 out of curiosity and it could be an answer to improve things or answer to a problem I never had. I am out 25 bucks so its not the end of the world if I don't like the answers but it could be 25 bucks well spent if
    there is a answer that helps all my other carbines and they all get a T2.

    Maybe I got the wrong buffer... I need a H or H2 or H1 or ???

    I close with this: Since I am screwing around with non factory buffers and chasing rainbows, I fully understand this is now Discovery Learning. Well and fine but I'd like to know the correct results to watch for , otherwise what I see might not be what is happening .

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    The US Army has moved on to H2 buffers some time ago to slow FA fire and prolong the bolt life. I doubt many are concerned about FA fire but bolt life might be. Im of the opinion the H2 and H3 buffers (and all the other specialized heavy weight buffers they sell) are used to "fix" issues with the pistol and carbine length carbines.
    When your smiling the whole world smiles with you

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    So...Mike, setting bolt life aside , the leap to a heavier buffer is something to consider only if performance of ones carbine has function issues. If there is no issue happening for the carbine you own...consider heavier buffer then as a option only then to prolong bolt life .

    If above is correct, then factory carbine buffers are adequate unless your carbine is not functioning well with stock buffer.

    Maybe stock buffers are not adequate to those who shoot their carbines a lot and optimum performance is the reason to go to a heavier buffer.

    Maybe stock buffers are just fine for most shooters and no need to chase buffer rainbows.

    Well, I got the T2 so I'll kick the can but am I the only one who thinks this whole buffer thing is a Chicken OR THE EGG , which comes first kind of question?

    If stock buffers stink, why would manufacturers of AR's use them as stock parts or are they inducing
    wear out so we buy more weapons and bolts ?

    I am sure in the long run, when my tests are done, I'll just have an opinion and hardly a conclusion I can look anyone in the eye and state hard fact. I just got this feeling this whole buffer thing is soft and mushy.

    If it works, just run it and break it......seems to be the conclusion out there...be it stock or heavy buffer. You will know what works when you get to the end of the trail.

    But I heard you Mike...military went to H2. Now...who sells that flavor of H2 ? What weight is it ? I'll have to get one to test...just as well, I am chasing fog with the Spikes as its not military issue.

    H2: who sells the real H2 ???
    Last edited by milprileb; 05-16-2017 at 09:46 AM.

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    I feel many carbines when operating a heavier buffer (over the 3oz stock) benefit in better reliability, longevity, and less parts breakage. Although lets face it the guy who buys an AR, shoots it 200 times a year might not notice for some time if he is wearing out parts faster than he has to.

    As for what makes up the difference I've always heard a std 3oz buffer is 3 steel weights inside the buffer body, an H (H1?) is 2 steel weights and one tungsten weight, the H2 is 2 tungsten and one steel weight and finally the H3 3 tungsten weights. I doubt there is much a maker can do to change this more then a few ozs in either direction by using these same materials although I have heard of other materials being used as well. I doubt the US Army specs anything too exotic when it comes to buffers so I suppose they use just a std H2 buffer made by one of their approved contractors.
    When your smiling the whole world smiles with you

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    Mike,

    Do you know where H2 buffers are sold ? Or is the Spikes T2 close enough ?

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    BCM sells a the heavy buffers (std through H3) From looking at the specs it looks like the spikes splits the difference between the H and H2 buffers...
    https://www.bravocompanyusa.com/M4-a...tocks-s/72.htm
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    Okay Mike, I see that...they sell a standard carbine buffer, H , H2 and a H3 buffer. Same page Vltor sells them as 3.8 oz, 4.5 oz and 5.33.

    BCM says standard buffer is 2.9 oz, H is 3.8 oz, H2 is 4.6 oz, H3 is 5.5 oz

    I'll source Spikes data and then post the complete Chinese Menu of Buffers on one thread .

    Then ...the mystery continues for what is the Milspec H2 military issue buffer weight ?

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    my H2 (milspec) is too heavy for my RCBS, and my postal scale is at the shop,,
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    Lyman,

    You hold the Holy Grail of Buffer-mania ..the Rosetta Stone of defeating over gassed M4 carbines.

    Pls weight that sucker and tell us what it weights !!

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    Skip:

    I just saw this buffer kit in a thread on AR15.com. It seems like the perfect way to test your theories:




    KAK AR15 CONFIGURABLE BUFFER KIT

    KIT CONTAINS
    1X BLASTED HARD BLACK ANODIZED BUFFER BODY

    3X ALUMINUM WEIGHTS

    3X STEEL WEIGHTS BLACK OXIDE COATED

    3X TUNGSTEN WEIGHTS

    4X RUBBER SPACER DISKS (1 SPARE)

    2X BUFFER BUMPERS (1 SPARE)

    2X ROLL PINS (1 SPARE)

    GREAT FOR FINICKY BUILDS, 9MM, SPECIAL SUBSONIC WORK ETC

    INCLUDED SPARE PARTS
    -RUBBER SPACER DISK
    -DIFFERENT COLORED BUMPER (TO NOTATE CONFIGURATION)
    -ROLL PIN
    KEEPS THE SYSTEM GOING FOR MANY WEIGHT SWAPS

    BUFFER COLORS MAY VARY, BUT YOU WILL RECEIVE 2 DIFFERENT COLORS

    CONFIGURE AND TUNE YOUR BUFFER FOR YOU SPECIFIC NEEDS

    Manufacturer: KAK INDUSTRY

    $47.00
    https://www.kakindustry.com/ar15-buffer-system

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qrd9BwriBw4
    Purists of the world, unite!

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    Samuel Adams

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    Richard...taking a look at that kit, Chieu Hoi !!!

    I'll take the weight on Lymans H2, close the doors and live with results.

    The worst thing you can give a Infantry guy is choice..and too many choices drives us nuts.

    I can see endless tests and chasing ones tail with that kit. Since I started this trek with all

    carbines running fine....this kit can only spell gloom and doom.

    Richard: I know you waited till the timing was right before you dropped this on me like napalm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    Lyman,

    You hold the Holy Grail of Buffer-mania ..the Rosetta Stone of defeating over gassed M4 carbines.

    Pls weight that sucker and tell us what it weights !!
    I'll get it in the next day or 3, hold tight
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    Lyman,

    You hold the Holy Grail of Buffer-mania ..the Rosetta Stone of defeating over gassed M4 carbines.

    Pls weight that sucker and tell us what it weights !!
    4.6 oz, for that H2,

    H is 3.8

    rifle length, standard is 5.2 for comparison or a control,

    however the one I weighed was an older wine colored tip on it , not sure of vintage,

    all weighed using a postal scale
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    It would appear Bravo Company H2 is same weight and is a good source if one wants to have a H2 buffer like military uses.

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    Military buffer (H2) is 4.6 oz, PSA is 4.5 oz...now I don't think that is a big deal but Dennis...don't be sending me ten emails asking why PSA is .1 oz lighter and what is the square root of that effect . Just saying this to save you from imploding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    Military buffer (H2) is 4.6 oz, PSA is 4.5 oz...now I don't think that is a big deal but Dennis...don't be sending me ten emails asking why PSA is .1 oz lighter and what is the square root of that effect . Just saying this to save you from imploding.
    stick a hydraulic in then!that'll cure your issues
    Last edited by dpl_hcm; 05-19-2017 at 06:32 PM.

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    mriddick and milprileb and others-help!!!! You have all gotten me confused. The PSA lower I used has an unmarked, from what I can see on the front, buffer. My Colt A3 has the H buffer. We havent had a chance to shoot the wifes new AR (PSA lower), and I have been running my Colt since I got it with no issues. The Colt is a '95 ish carbine.

    Should I look at replacing ? Should I sit down, take a breath and have a sip of Knob Creek ?

    Also the Colt has the original sporter carrier, as it came if that matters.
    Last edited by tahoe; 05-19-2017 at 12:44 PM. Reason: clarity
    /Steve C

    Lithgow 1920 No I MK III
    Lithgow 1941 No1 MK III
    Maltby 1942 No 4 MK I
    Long Branch 1943 No 4 MK I*/ 7.62 Conv.
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    just shoot the guns and if no issue just leave them!

    id do more then just a sip if it was me!

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    Tahoe,

    I'll let others justify why they replaced their factory stock buffer for a H2 or H3. From the archaeology of buffers it appears unmarked and H are the same buffer. For some obtuse reason
    there is no H1 buffer , so the leap from factory buffer is to H2 or H3.

    MRiddick validated the H2 was chosen by the military and for semi auto fire, it saves wear & tear on the buffer. It solves the issue of carbines being "over gassed" which is not good for long life of the weapon.

    That all said: since you've had no issues with your buffers, I'd just run what you have unless you want to try a H2 out of curiosity and if that produces a result you like, then you can add more H2 to other carbines.

    Two things:
    1. Knob Creek is probably a good course of action and make it a double and forget this thread entirely.
    2. Get a H2 and try it and decide if you see Value Added.

    I got to see some results before I'll decide if the H2 that I bought brings home any bacon. If I decide it does not, then when my barrel is shot out , I'll just replace the bolt head along with the new barrel and head back to the range. If bolt craps out before barrel burns out, then I know I should have used a H2 buffer and will self correct at that time.

    I do not discount this "Over Gassed"situation with AR carbines exist nor the H2 being a solution for it. What gets in my way is not bolt life extended with H2 , its function. In 3 wars I 've carried AR carbines of one model or the other..all with factory buffers and never knew I was "over gassed" and these weapons ran flawlessly with proper maintenance & lube. Never a bolt failure and on the XM177 and M4, full auto was used a good amount, weapons got hot and never a bolt failure.

    For me the jury is still out on H2. Facts contained in this thread indicate H2 is a better buffer than factory buffers for AR carbines. Facts are Facts.

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    There is no H1 buffer, but there is a standard, H, H2 and H3.
    It's been my experience the unmarked buffers weigh around 3 oz which is the standard weight of a buffer with 3 steel weights in it.
    The H buffer should have one tungsten weight and 2 steel weights which brings the weight around 3.8 oz
    The H2 (2 tungsten/one steel weight) weighs in at 4.8 oz
    The H3 with 3 tungsten weights is 5.6 oz.
    (note I would say the above probably vary within 2oz or so of the listed weights)

    I believe the US Army has been using H, H1 and H2 buffers for sometime, they have been increasing the buffer weight over the service life of the M16/M4 since in testing they've found it prolongs life and increases reliability. Understand though that a heavy buffer will slow the action and others have found that a light weight buffer will increase the speed of followup shots and can reduce the recoil impulse if set up correctly. So before switching buffers around you might want to consider what is the goal and what you want out of your AR.
    Last edited by mriddick; 05-20-2017 at 07:49 AM.
    When your smiling the whole world smiles with you

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    Quote Originally Posted by tahoe View Post
    sit down, take a breath and have a sip of Knob Creek ?
    this sounds like a plan after a nice day on the range

    in other words,

    don't worry about it, shoot, enjoy
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mriddick View Post
    There is no H1 buffer, but there is a standard, H, H2 and H3.
    It's been my experience the unmarked buffers weigh around 3 oz which is the standard weight of a buffer with 3 steel weights in it.
    The H buffer should have one tungsten weight and 2 steel weights which brings the weight around 3.8 oz
    The H1 (2 tungsten/one steel weight) weighs in at 4.8 oz
    The H3 with 3 tungsten weights is 5.6 oz.
    (note I would say the above probably vary within 2oz or so of the listed weights)

    I believe the US Army has been using H, H1 and H2 buffers for sometime, they have been increasing the buffer weight over the service life of the M16/M4 since in testing they've found it prolongs life and increases reliability. Understand though that a heavy buffer will slow the action and others have found that a light weight buffer will increase the speed of followup shots and can reduce the recoil impulse if set up correctly. So before switching buffers around you might want to consider what is the goal and what you want out of your AR.
    Mike:

    The reference to H1 buffers (after the first sentence) was just a typo, correct?
    Purists of the world, unite!

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    Samuel Adams

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    Thank you one and all !!!! I know what course of action is called for. As always I knew I would recieve the direction I sought. Thanks Guys !!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails image.jpg  

    /Steve C

    Lithgow 1920 No I MK III
    Lithgow 1941 No1 MK III
    Maltby 1942 No 4 MK I
    Long Branch 1943 No 4 MK I*/ 7.62 Conv.
    Fazakerly 10/47 dated No 5 MK I
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    Richard in Ny could use a bottle of the Knob Creek if he gets that buffer with replaceable weights in it...after testing endlessly, he'll need a double shot of that hootch !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard in NY* View Post
    Mike:

    The reference to H1 buffers (after the first sentence) was just a typo, correct?
    Yes meant to be H2, it is corrected

    Thanks
    When your smiling the whole world smiles with you

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    Thinking I'll pick up one H2 and see if I notice a difference. what can it hurt? Lots of good information guys. I am learning everytime I follow ya'll.

    One more question. My Colt has the semi/sporter bolt carrier. As it is lighter what should I look for when trying the H2?
    /Steve C

    Lithgow 1920 No I MK III
    Lithgow 1941 No1 MK III
    Maltby 1942 No 4 MK I
    Long Branch 1943 No 4 MK I*/ 7.62 Conv.
    Fazakerly 10/47 dated No 5 MK I
    Fazakerly 9/53 No 4 MK II PF series


    If you can't smile at yourself, then why even be !

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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    Tahoe,

    I'll let others justify why they replaced their factory stock buffer for a H2 or H3. From the archaeology of buffers it appears unmarked and H are the same buffer. For some obtuse reason
    there is no H1 buffer , so the leap from factory buffer is to H2 or H3.
    There is a difference between standard (unmarked) and H (heavy) buffer, they are not the same weight.
    When your smiling the whole world smiles with you

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    Quote Originally Posted by mriddick View Post
    There is a difference between standard (unmarked) and H (heavy) buffer, they are not the same weight.
    So...its factory unmarked standard buffer, then H, then H2, Then H3...this is the menu by buffer model ??

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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    Richard in Ny could use a bottle of the Knob Creek if he gets that buffer with replaceable weights in it...after testing endlessly, he'll need a double shot of that hootch !
    Skip:

    I wish! I can't play with these wonderful toys in this police state so I have to live vicariously through your posts. I really do enjoy these threads even though they leave me more angry and more frustrated than before. I look forward to your field test results!
    Purists of the world, unite!

    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”
    Samuel Adams

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    ill go ahead and add a question.why not switch the spring and not the buffer?and how would you tell which or both are needed?couldnt a stiffer spring with a light buffer do the same as a heavier buffer or reverse?

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    Quote Originally Posted by milprileb View Post
    So...its factory unmarked standard buffer, then H, then H2, Then H3...this is the menu by buffer model ??
    I think it would be fair to call that the basic line up made up of steel and tungsten weights, then you have the boutique line up offered by various makers that expands on this further with more exotic weights and materials (fluid and others included).
    When your smiling the whole world smiles with you

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    Quote Originally Posted by mriddick View Post
    There is a difference between standard (unmarked) and H (heavy) buffer, they are not the same weight.
    a couple of unmarked, (and also unknown maker) carbine buffers were 2.8 oz, as in a full ounce lighter than an H
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dpl_hcm View Post
    ill go ahead and add a question.why not switch the spring and not the buffer?and how would you tell which or both are needed?couldnt a stiffer spring with a light buffer do the same as a heavier buffer or reverse?
    all my springs are standard issue

    if the .gov does not play with springs (extra power, low power, whatever power) then why should I?
    what's so funny about peace love and understanding?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyman1903 View Post
    a couple of unmarked, (and also unknown maker) carbine buffers were 2.8 oz, as in a full ounce lighter than an H
    Yep I've got standard buffers that weighed 3.2 oz, which is why I noted that of the weights I wrote they probably need a range of + or - 2 oz (at least)
    When your smiling the whole world smiles with you

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    Quote Originally Posted by dpl_hcm View Post
    ill go ahead and add a question.why not switch the spring and not the buffer?and how would you tell which or both are needed?couldnt a stiffer spring with a light buffer do the same as a heavier buffer or reverse?
    Dennis, while you are tossing that wrench into the gear box, add nitrite and chrome and Nickle boron bolts to the equation along with standard and lighten versions...then get out the buffer set with interchangeable weights and come back at us with the answers in 7 yrs time...and don't call me while you're doing it.

    I am staying with stock springs , play with the H2 buffer and make my final decision regarding buffers ...keep the stock ones in all carbines or replace all with H2.

  40. #39
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    I'm thinking the idea with this discussion is to highlight what the military has been doing in developing the M4 platform, if our AR's came from the factory like the military spec's out their M4's I doubt we'd be having this discussion...
    Last edited by mriddick; 05-21-2017 at 06:53 PM.
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