St Petersburg Cavalry Carbine - 1913 Izhevsk
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Thread: St Petersburg Cavalry Carbine - 1913 Izhevsk

  1. #1
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    Default St Petersburg Cavalry Carbine - 1913 Izhevsk

    Just picked up a 1913 Izhevsk St Petersburg cavalry carbine. Bolt is correct but doesn't match, the magazine and buttplate do match (but are stamped over top removed older numbers much like a refurb, not all Izhevsk, but all parts are Imperial markings). Everything is present. Eagles are defaced. No German proofs. CAI billboard on receiver. Rear barrel band is Izhevsk marked (I read somewhere that these are not marked?). Stock has a marking on it that I have never seen before, I will have to get a picture of that up soon (along with the rifle itself), it looks like zig zag lines in a box, fairly small. Stock is decent, lot of uneven shellac or something on it.

    I haven't bought a Mosin in a long while. This is something I never imagined I would find.

    Here is a photo (I'll try and do better ones over the weekend)

    Click image for larger version.

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  2. #2
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    Congrats on obtaining a genuinely rare gun!
    Purists of the world, unite!

    If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
    Samuel Adams

  3. #3
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    Congrats, I would like to find one of these too. Along with the spare jingle to pay for it ha! Very nice and thanks for sharing it. Regards, John.

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  5. #4
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    Laugh hard and often.

    Gary

  6. #5
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    Great find. Congratulations.
    I'm sure many folks are looking forward to more pictures, I sure am.

  7. #6
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    Click image for larger version.

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    More photos of all the bits and pieces. Bolt doesn't match as mentioned earlier, not sure what the bolt originally was with but it is a mix of imperial parts and does appear to be a carbine bolt. Missing the tiny screw in the sight leaf that holds it in place when using the ladder, never going to find that, original probably broke. Asterisk on the bayonet sheath. Nothing appears out of the ordinary for this rifle.

    Anyone have an ideas about the mark on the stock? Any and all thoughts on this rifle greatly appreciated. Given it was imported by CAI I wonder where it came from. Balkan region?

  8. #7
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    This is one of the best finds of the year, I'm not sure why it's not getting more kudos from our members?
    A fantastic addition to your collection, congrats!

  9. #8
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    I don't know, maybe all the Mosin die hards haven't checked in to the forum in a few days? I know there are experts here with respect to this carbine, just trying to figure out when these were made gave me a headache, given all the posts about this variety I found online were a lot of back and forth discussions. All I can definitively say is that it was before 1928, given the large bow and arrow stamped onto the unique to this model rear barrel band. ALL of the parts are imperial marked, nothing is post 1928. Were spare parts reused? The floor plate and butt plate are definitely re-used / restamped to match the receiver serial.

    I got around to taking it apart, receiver is a 1912 Izhevsk, matching barrel receiver manufacturing numbers. Trigger could use a new spring, have to pull it all the way back really hard to get it to release. Wood has seen abuse, but its honest original, nice to have one not sanded down or refurbished. That's about all I know. Everything I can see, as far as I can tell, is 100% correct for this rifle. Wish the bolt matched, but it is what it is. At least it is the right kind of bolt.

    The bore is strong, dark, but strong, nothing terrible about it, would probably shoot just fine. When I got it in hand the firing pin was way out of wack, not sure who had it last, but if they popped off a round it would have went straight through the primer, that was an easy fix.

  10. #9
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    Very cool rifle buckeye... and like ExecChef said that is the find of the year.

  11. #10
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    Questions for the experts here. Wondering if those who do have one can shed some light on this.

    Were the floor plate and butt plates on these carbines reused from stocks from other rifles with the new serial over an old one?
    Anyone have an ideas about the mark on the stock?
    Given it was imported by CAI does anyone have a thought as to where it was imported from?. Balkans?

    I am a bit surprised at the lack of interest shown for this rifle, it isn't every day one of these shows up. Thanks to those who have commented thus far.

  12. #11
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    Congrats on finding a rare carbine - While not my speciality area, I do know these are an uncommon find & IIRC the bayonet if you can find one(more rare than the carbine I believe), is worth more than or equal to the gun!

    Not much is written on these, very few members have them. PM KH, Vic or JPS for more info, if anybody knows, these guys know.

    Pahtu.

  13. #12
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    Hello Gents,

    Nice find Buckeye! While I prefer the examples without the "billboard" these carbines are rare in any condition. Rather than rehash this subject all over again, I highly recommend that you pop open a cold one and sit down and wade through this old thread. It contains more info than you are going to find in any other single source.

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...=CAPTAIN+TUPES

    When I'm finished with the two-volume work on the Serbian weapons of WWI that I'm coauthoring with our fellow member Bane, I will be writing an article on the Cavalry School Carbines for GUNS Magazine. More research needs to be done on these unusual carbines. Perhaps on my next trip to Russia?

    Nice find! Hope this thread helps.

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

  14. #13
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    Thanks JPS!

    Does anyone who has one have a arsenal marked rear barrel band? Mine is Izhevsk marked, which leads me to believe this work was done at Izhevsk, since the rear band is definitely unique to this type of rifle. Look forward to future discoveries and information about the carbine, if I can add anything to your research in any way I will gladly document all the bits and pieces of mine in minute detail.

  15. #14
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    Some corrections for research sake.

    The magazine floorplate is NOT imperial, it has an Izhevsk triangle arrow mark. Given that the floorplate and buttplate serial fonts match, these were likely done after WWI and beyond. I also have reason to believe this rifle was imported recently, and from Eastern Europe.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mosinbuckeye View Post
    Some corrections for research sake.

    The magazine floorplate is NOT imperial, it has an Izhevsk triangle arrow mark. Given that the floorplate and buttplate serial fonts match, these were likely done after WWI and beyond. I also have reason to believe this rifle was imported recently, and from Eastern Europe.

    Since the magazine and/or floorplate and buttplate are universal, that doesn't necessarily mean that the carbine was converted after WWI. It simply indicates that it was rebuilt at some point after the war. If you had a post-war Ishevsk triangle/arrow mark on the lower band with the scabbard tip, that would obviously point to a post war conversion.

    As for the recent importation of one or more small lots of these carbines, there has to have been at least one group as evidenced by the hideous billboard on the side of the receivers of the recent examples that have surfaced. My example was acquired years ago in Germany. It's 1896 dated which allowed me to fly back to the U.S. and walk it through U.S. Customs as an antique.

    As far as I know, exactly where this latest group came from has yet to be established? Based on Kulinskiy's information, there were a large number cavalry regiments armed with these carbines during WWI. I would not be surprised if there are small numbers of surviving examples that have yet to surface.

    It may be more than a coincidence that your lower band is marked by Ishevsk considering the fact that they were the sole manufacturer of M1891 Three-Line Cossack Rifles.

    Very interesting......

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

  17. #16
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    I am so jealous I can hardly stand it.

    Well played, bro!

  18. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JPS View Post
    It simply indicates that it was rebuilt at some point after the war.
    I should have been more clear, I only meant that the floorplate and buttplate were not original as issued, but were later additions post WWI.

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