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Those strange prices

4K views 54 replies 35 participants last post by  Springbank 
#1 ·
Been looking at milsurps on the major auction/classifieds sites; I'm afraid I still don't get it. Take Gunsinternational.com. I just saw hundreds of hugely overpriced things, like a gazillion/bazillion of various Mausers, many of them neither rare nor interesting, usually priced at $800 and up, Arisakas for $600, etc. Makes me wonder - who buys that stuff? Maybe nobody does, and these are some money laundering operations? :) And if they do buy it - why? I think the fun thing about collecting is finding the right thing at the right price. Otherwise, if you do not care about prices, you can find almost anything and buy it TODAY. But then what? And what is the fun of that? But, most importantly, beyond things like the recent M39 madness where people actually BUY things, albeit at crazy prices (why - beats me), there seem to be even more listings that nobody even seems to be interested in. Some of them remain unsold for not weeks or months, but YEARS (no kidding - I kept seeing an FN 49 listing on GB that was there at least for three years due to crazy reserve nobody wanted to pay). I just don't get it...
 
#2 ·
The best one can do is ensure they know what they are looking at, and make a decision based on the rifle in hands, what you think the value should be, and the funds in your pocket. If the three items don't sync up, move on to the next one...
 
#4 ·
This is simple, to the point, and some of the best advice I have read recently on this topic.

Another question I ask myself when considering purchasing an item is "What else could I buy with this money?" Sometimes that has brought clarity to a potential purchase for me.

The $1200 flavor of the month, sight unseen m39 may be worth that, or more, to someone, but that someone ain't me for a whole host of reasons. So I move on, while occasionally also watching these sorts of things for educational and entertainment value...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
#3 ·
Champagne appetite, beer income, here. Guns, machinist, welder, electronic technologist, computer geek, repair almost everything that my micromodular Weller 3000 station can handle... Ah, that's the partial solution, buy scrap and fix it up... just got an Enco RF-31 mill, built in 1984. $600 on Craigs List. A bargain, that runs. has a 120/240 2HP single phase motor. But, has no reverse... so have a 3 HP 3 phase motor... getting a VFD to drive that.

Anyway, to not break the topic of this thread, the firearms aren't the only thing that linger online in auctions... many different cars, machine tools, collectible items seem to sit for years on all the various sites... I mark them and ignore them... Now, I have to go, hold or touch the item, verify it's truths, before I buy, at the price I am able to afford. I win some, lose a few...

Every Mosin Nagant M91 or 91/30 I have is a marvel to cherish. First, is my M91 Dragoon of 1901, Izhevsk, from a private owner in a small local gun show. stock is a Tula 1902 that was refurbed...No import marks. Value has doubled in the market. Maybe even worth much more. So, it got here prior to 1968...

Always seeking bargains, and keeping my eyes open to them...
 
#50 ·
Champagne appetite, beer income, here.

I remember an old man telling me 16 years ago at a gun show " You can't buy Champagne guns with Root beer money". He was right, nice condition guns are expensive compared to well used examples.

I bought most of my rifles and pistols back in late 90's early 2000 era when prices were still decent.

Most of my military rifles are import marked. I'm not picky when it comes to them, but pistols on the other hand have to be non import, matching, and original finish.
 
#5 ·
With far too many guns my question these days is "Will this one really make me happier?" "Will this one really improve much?"

I now pass on many I previously would have bought and only have bought three in the past four months or so - a Tula M44, a plum B barrel M39 in mint shape and a really nice 1895 Winchester with rare Lyman sight.

Of those, only the Winchester has really brought me great entertainment so far - the others just sit in one of the safes. Sort of like old Hugh Heffner sitting around the Playboy Mansion surrounded by beauties but bored...

UOTE=N8theSk8;7057026]This is simple, to the point, and some of the best advice I have read recently on this topic.

Another question I ask myself when considering purchasing an item is "What else could I buy with this money?" Sometimes that has brought clarity to a potential purchase for me.

The $1200 flavor of the month, sight unseen m39 may be worth that, or more, to someone, but that someone ain't me for a whole host of reasons. So I move on, while occasionally also watching these sorts of things for educational and entertainment value...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]
 
#23 ·
With far too many guns my question these days is "Will this one really make me happier?" "Will this one really improve much?"

I now pass on many I previously would have bought and only have bought three in the past four months or so - a Tula M44, a plum B barrel M39 in mint shape and a really nice 1895 Winchester with rare Lyman sight.

Of those, only the Winchester has really brought me great entertainment so far - the others just sit in one of the safes. Sort of like old Hugh Heffner sitting around the Playboy Mansion surrounded by beauties but bored...


This is simple, to the point, and some of the best advice I have read recently on this topic.

Another question I ask myself when considering purchasing an item is "What else could I buy with this money?" Sometimes that has brought clarity to a potential purchase for me.

The $1200 flavor of the month, sight unseen m39 may be worth that, or more, to someone, but that someone ain't me for a whole host of reasons. So I move on, while occasionally also watching these sorts of things for educational and entertainment value...
Lots of wisdom, here. ^
 
#6 ·
Otherwise, if you do not care about prices, you can find almost anything and buy it TODAY. But then what? And what is the fun of that?
A very good point- to me "collecting" implies multiple examples of something with some focus on a certain technical or historical aspect. When I first got into "collecting" Lee Enfields about 10 years ago, little did I know that anything the slightest bit special or interesting would be priced like the crown jewels. Actually had to import two early WW1 SMLE's from the US to avoid the gouging up here. The demand for them is simply too high right now to be starting a collection- case in point: chatted with a very young fellow at a show who was ogling a No. 4T with wooden box, etc, etc. Asked him what other LE's he owned and he replied "none- this will be my first". Then I got into Mosin's not realizing that, in Canada, real collectable, quality M91's or 91/30's are as rare as an honest politician. Struggled for years to put together a decent group of them. When, out of the blue, these 91/30's with folding bayonets showed up the scramble was like the TV department at Walmart on Black Friday. Aspiring collectors would be well advised to have a better game plan than I did.

Ruprecht
 
#7 ·
I used to think the local gun shops were nuts for listing somewhat mediocre Mosins and other milsurps for exorbitant prices. Sometimes they sat for a few weeks, sometimes a few months... but they usually sold at or close to the price I thought was unreasonably high.

So, who's the fool... the gun shop that eventually gets a higher-than-market price? Or is it me, who assumes that just because I won't pay that much, nobody else will?

They know that it only takes one customer to walk in and pay their asking price.

Same thing happens on auctions and other online forums. It rarely costs the seller anything to keep listing it until it sells at a nice price.

The recent Tikka M39 that I sold (referenced in the recent thread titled "any rich guys win this?" or something like that) could have been listed at a starting price of.....say, $2000.... and would probably have sat a few auction cycles. But maybe someone would have bid that much eventually....
 
#8 ·
I've been interested in the prices for a while, starting with the panic buying a few years ago. So I wrote some software to help pick out deals for myself and really know what stuff was selling for (a bit more difficult to extract lately, but I still can get asking prices). To answer whether something was overpriced, I started tracking how many times an item had been relisted as many sellers on some sites delete a listing and then repost it every day so it stays at the top of the list as "something new". So on a page like new SKS listings, I list the number of times it's been re-listed as far as my software can detect. I've observed lots of shenanigans with the prices on auction sites (I suspect shill "buyers", and then the item is re-listed the next day with the same pictures, etc.).

My point is, be aware as most here are, of what the "real" price of the item is and buy what you want to fill your collection with purpose.
 
#9 ·
It's a simple economics matter really, one I could have used to teach supply and demand in my high school economics class years ago. At $500, their aren't many people willing to buy a 91/30, but you could find plenty of people willing to sell. At $100 dollars, you could find all kinds of buyers for that same 91/30 but few people willing to sell. At some point, though, there will be a price where it evens out. That's the market value (called an equilibrium point in economics).

In theory, there will be an occasional buyer or seller at the extremes. One might buy a $500 91/30 because they conclude they are soon going to be banned and they want to nab it before anyone else does. Or, they just saw Enemy at the Gates and had to have one. Bill Ruger did this with his replica of the Single Action Army. He realized that all of those people watching John Wayne movies were nostalgic enough to buy one and so he marketed such a gun.

Things like this keep an overpriced gun on gunbroker for months on end---True, some sellers simply don't know what the 91/30 is worth, but many do. The latter seller is the one holding out the wild hope that rare someone willing to overpay is out there and sees the ad.

Conversely, there's that person who has to pay the rent or be evicted and sells that 91/30 for $100. (Happens at pawnshops all the time, and at gunshows with trade-ins.)
 
#10 ·
You know what it is what it is! You look at the price and either pay it or move on. There is no reason to really consume your day figuring should I or shouldn't I? If it is everything you want and it is going for X amount you either pay the price or say the honest to God truth I can't afford that right now or don't wish to afford that right now! You are looking at the market and see the asking price and if there is nothing you can do to change the price you buy the darn thing and move on to tomorrow's challenges. Bill
 
#11 ·
I've said this before: Most gun people are socialists when they want to buy and capitalists when they want to sell.

They also think that guns and ammo aren't like other commodities and shouldn't follow normal rules supply and demand and real would market prices.

For example, when .22 ammo prices followed the demand curve, how many threads were made by folks crying about price gouging and too much profits?

On the other side, no one seems to be complaining about the glut and how cheap ARs have gotten - except for the people trying sell.
 
#12 ·
Yep. What always amuses me is all the rants to the effect of "if we all band together and refuse to buy all these overpriced milsurps, in a couple of months Mosins will be selling for $79.00 again". Well, let's all refuse to buy beer, tickets for sporting events, etc. while we're at it. :)
 
#13 ·
OK that's it. Gone too far. I draw the line at beer. $400 for a 43 Izhevsk...that's fine. Just let my beer alone.:laugh::laugh:
 
#19 ·
Over here, people with means and multiple passports seek tangibles with max liquidity. The notion of firearms as a store of value doesn't work, no matter what BS certain CA safari enthusiasts try to pitch.
 

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#22 ·
#29 ·
The older buyer who probably has been collecting and shooting mil surps for years knows he probably can get a better deal somewhere else. The newer shooter probably does not know the price structure as well and figures he's paying the going rate. Or that since he has the money and is not going to wait around for a cheaper mil surp buys at a higher price not being able to wait and do research on that particular firearm. Plus they ain't making any of the older mil surps so it's a sellers market. Frank
 
#32 ·
There is a whole section of economics devoted to finite supply and collectibles. The supply curve being virtually perfectly inelastic (no more being made/imported, etc) causes prices to be almost exclusively dependent in demand. Too many buyers, not enough sellers. Since mosins were the last major surplus holdout to speak of, they have finally succumb to the same wave that crashed through the mausers, enfields, MAS, Arisakas before them. Fortunately the poor Carcano is still much maligned. Unless there is a major influx of new supply (Russian sanctions anyone), or a bunch of collectors leave the market, the trend will maintain or worsen. There are still deals (caused by price static from uninformed/desperate sellers), but i sure have not had any luck finding an m28 or m28-30 to finnish my collection under 600 bucks in over 2 years. The hunt continues. And no, I am not ever joining an anti beer cartel.....

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
#39 ·
Very true, but that's where the plot thickens. Say a gun that is worth $350 (if the seller gets lucky) is listed at $900. Go to the website I mentioned - you'll find plenty of those. Now, try to talk that seller down even to $450 and see what happens...

I am familiar with supply and demand curves, equilibrium, etc. - I had economics coursework too. But some things are a bit strange nevertheless. Like, one would expect dealers to have to sell stuff to achieve a better cash flow situation and keep the money "working" (unless they are all billionaires selling guns for fun), not hold things for years until the market finally meets their expectations.
 
#37 ·
I was lucky enough about 5 years back to buy a crate of 91/30's when I first became interested in them. I believe I paid $1750.00 for the whole thing, delivered. Last winter I was at my local gunclub on a Sunday morning, and one of the other members was interested in my run of the mill 43 Ishvesk, and I mentioned that while I bought them for about $88.00 apiece, they were going for north of $200 now if you could find them. I let him shoot it, and he talked me into selling him one for $150.00. A week later he called me back wanting the other 19 that were in the crate. I didn't want to sell, but he was insistent, so I shot him the impossibly high price of $300 each. His counter offer was $250 each and I would throw in the crate. How could I say no? I didn't buy them with the intent of flipping them, but at that price I would be stupid not to. I made 3k off of the deal and really have no regrets. This being California, we had to do the transfer through a gun store, which he paid for, so everything is legal. It was cool having a full crate of Mosin's, but the money I made off of it more than made up for the loss.
 
#38 ·
AirForceVeteran summed it up best for me when he wrote that every Mosin is a marvel to cherish. I marvel at my 43 Izvhesks and imagine the times and places they may have been. Helping to turn back the Nazis at Stalingrad and pushing them all the way back to Berlin in April of 45. Refurbed in the 50's in the Ukraine. The aroma of the old warehouse and cosmoline in the wood. The power. The accuracy. Bought them cheap. All the different interesting markings and learning what they all mean. Don't need to pay over a grand, the thrill is no greater. Arsenal refurb means ready to go bang, and is a good thing. Thanks to all for sharing. The vast amount of knowledge here is humbling and I am grateful for the opportunity to learn.
 
#45 ·
Many years ago when I was 16 my Father brought a MK6 home from the Base. A guy wanted $ 15.00 for it. It was in VG condition. He decided it was too unorthodox for him and decided not to get it. I then asked him if I could purchase it with my own money. He didn't like the idea of me having a Pistol at my age and was reluctant to let me buy it. I finally talked him into it, with the condition that I keep it in the top of my closet, unloaded, and only handle it in self defense at home, when it needed wiped down or cleaned. He also told me that if he ever found me carrying it on my person that he would make sure that I would never see it again. I enjoyed shooting it with him many times. Once I was awakened by someone trying to get in my Bedroom window. I got my Webley from the closet, loaded it, and arrived back at my window just in time to cock it against his head. I told him that he was about to get his head blown off. I believe he was a block away before his feet hit the ground. That Dude could run. I never intended to shoot him if at all possible. He didn't wait around to see. I don't even remember what happened to that pistol. I think I traded it for something.
 
#41 ·
Clearly it is to be expected that there will be variations in the market depending on location and country. It was great making hay when the Aus$ was at or above parity with the US$ and the advantage was exploited. Importing from the States into Oz for pre-1898 items was worthwhile and did offer a good margin on local prices. Now with the exchange differential as it is, greater care is needed.And it has become vvvery difficult to import more modern arms, with all of the paperwork needed.
But conversely, there are some items here which are priced lower than the States.
The UK prices on Martinis etc often are much higher, with our dollar prices translating to pounds.
As has been mentioned, the best advice is to wait for the opportunity, may take time but it is surprising what can turn up (at the right price).
 
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