Gunboards Forums banner

Thinking outside the box on corrosive ammo cleaning

5K views 92 replies 27 participants last post by  rgl3945 
#1 ·
Don't know if anyone has ever discussed this, but has anyone ever tried using for example aerosol carb cleaner or brake cleaner to clean up a gun after using corrosive ammo? Some of those nooks and crannies can be hard to get to, especially on a semi auto. Wondering if I have any options to the tried and true hot water routine.

Thoughts?
 
#3 ·
Yes and NO.

To clean out the salts from corrosive primers, you indeed have to have a water based approach. Per the comments above.

On those days in matches when I can't clean the bore at the range immediately with a water flush down bore , followed by patches to dry bore and oiled patch finally to seal metal in bore...I have a short cut solution. I shoot aerosol penetrating oil down bore to seal and protect bore and case the weapon till I get home, then patch that oil out, and do the proper water based approach to cleaning bore.

The aerosol solvents you mentioned may run some carbon fouling out of bore due to burnt powder but it does ZERO to the salts in the bore and the risk of rust.

The short cut I mentioned is a stop gap...it gets bore protected for a few hours till I can properly clean it and prevents salts and the air generating rust in bore. On a hot steamy humid day, you shoot a rifle with corrosive ammo and shove it in a case and three hours later pull it out to clean it...you can get orange on your patches as rust is well on its way forming in your bore...this is where the penetrating oil prevents this and buys me a bit of time to get rifle home and do a proper clean up. By no means do I mean penetrating oil in bore secures the bore from destruction of salts remaining in bore, my short cut is not a cleaning solution but only a temporary band aid.
 
#4 ·
if you have a nice rifle you just have to shoot corrosive out of,
make a habit of taking a thermos of hot water, and a spray
can of wd-40 with you. when done shooting remove the bolt,
rinse with water, invert the rifle and pour the remaining water
thru the breech and let the rifle drain. then follow with a good
spray down of wd-40. when you get home clean like a real rifle.
 
#5 ·
On the other hand, I figure my bores will probably survive the 30 minute drive home from my range.

Once I get home I immediately run hot water down the bore from an adapter that I made from a garden hose fitting, a length of Tygon tubing and a tapered medical fitting used to connect breathing tubes to portable oxygen tanks.

I connect the rig to the water heater's drain valve and run water through the barrel until the outside of the barrel is warm to the touch. I use my basement sump to dispose of the water.

Easy, no mess, and it keeps me up on the recommended maintenance practice of draining a couple gallons out of the water out of my water heater on a regular basis to keep sediment from building up in the bottom of the tank..
 
#7 ·
Comments:

ARmans method replicates the British Army hot water flush. WD 40 does displace water (Water Displacing is why its got WD in the name), and his method will work very fine indeed.

For 10 yrs now, I have violated this British Army procedure using a cold water flush of bore twice, patching out bore than one more water flush and dry the bore by using several patches and then run a oily patch of CLP or Ballistol down the bore and the rifle is done. Hot water is Optimum though if you have a source of hot water..boiling water is far best.

As to Plonkers water heater solution, he's be racing that around the boards for nearly a decade and its a hot water bore method. The downside is my range does not have a water heater on the firing line but when they do, I'll be right there with Plonker flushing bore with hot boiling water. Where he and I jump the tracks is , he is okay riding home with corrosive salts in his bore and I am flat not going to do that. I don't leave the range unless my bore is cleaned or at least has a coat of penetrating oil in it to seal it from air mating with salts and forming rust. I will never risk my bore and I got some stunning bores and maintain them that way.
 
#16 ·
Comments:

ARmans method replicates the British Army hot water flush. WD 40 does displace water (Water Displacing is why its got WD in the name), and his method will work very fine indeed.

For 10 yrs now, I have violated this British Army procedure using a cold water flush of bore twice, patching out bore than one more water flush and dry the bore by using several patches and then run a oily patch of CLP or Ballistol down the bore and the rifle is done. Hot water is Optimum though if you have a source of hot water..boiling water is far best.

As to Plonkers water heater solution, he's be racing that around the boards for nearly a decade and its a hot water bore method. The downside is my range does not have a water heater on the firing line but when they do, I'll be right there with Plonker flushing bore with hot boiling water. Where he and I jump the tracks is , he is okay riding home with corrosive salts in his bore and I am flat not going to do that. I don't leave the range unless my bore is cleaned or at least has a coat of penetrating oil in it to seal it from air mating with salts and forming rust. I will never risk my bore and I got some stunning bores and maintain them that way.
So, I gather you must figure that my bores look like the inside of old smokestacks because I wait maybe 45 minutes longer than you do before I start cleaning them?

WRONG-O! I will match your bores to my bores ANY day of the week, and I just might win this one.

I usually don't 'turn over' what I buy, and some of these rifles of mine have been undergoing my specific version of 'bore cleaning abuse' for as much as 50 years, with NO bores that EVER got ANY worse from my cleaning methods.

I have always doubted the validity of the British insistence of using boiling water (look it up if you do not believe me) as you can not dissolve ANYTHING in boiling water. Boiling water LEAVES all the impurities in the water behind, usually attached solidly to the surfaces of the vessel containing the water.

I worked with high pressure (is 3000 PSI high enough for you?) high capacity (1.5 MILLION pounds of water/steam per hour) steam boilers for over 40 years and this is a cardinal concept in operation and maintenance of such boilers.

As far as hot water goes, have you ever tried washing the grease and 'schmutz' off your silverware and dishes with COLD water? I figure hot water works better. Perhaps not a LOT better in the case of bore fouling, but better nonetheless. twenty years of cleaning my rifles with water from my water heaterhas not damaged ONE rifle I have cleaned this way, and it IS a pretty quick and easy way to flush bores.

You clean your bores when and how you like, and I will clean mine the way I prefer. I just put this out there because I have found it to be a quick, convenient way to flush bores that someone else MIGHT want to try.

Just today (Sunday evening) I flushed out my Albanian SKS (the ammunition was what I consider 'iffy' Eastern Bloc stuff (Wolf)) and a Greek return CMP 1903 Springfield (which I definitely exposed to corrosive ammunition. WWII M2 Ball made by UMC. the headstamp reads U 42) today. Both bores are still just as nice as when I bought the rifles, and will continue to be so.

Oh, and you got the name wrong.
 
#8 ·
That is what I was wondering, if the cleaners would actually flush the salt out of the rifle like water would. A mosin Nagant isn't that hard to clean after shooting corrosive, a PSL or an AK or a belt fed semi auto has a lot more nook and crannies that the salt can hide in and I hate the thought of dunking the whole gun in water, which presents its own problems of rust.
 
#9 ·
I think that using carb cleaner would be a detriment rather than a help. It won't touch the salts as previously noted but it will remove any oil and grease that do protect the metal. I don't think you'll get rust in an hour or two but it doesn't help to have the steel surfaces clean and oil free for any period of time. Taking the carbon out doesn't really help anything either if you're rusting the rest. Just wait til you get home and can clean properly and then oil it up. Its not rocket science by any means.....though maybe it is chemistry.

Frank
 
#10 ·
Brake Cleaner works fine for Carbon-coated Pistons and Gas cylinders (Garand, Bren, M60, Soviet Firearms, etc etc...) BUT is USELESS for the salts of Corrosive ammo. The British and Commonwealth Armies method of Hot water, followed by a scrub dry and oil, is still the Simplest (and Best) Method

K.I.S.S. (Old army saying)

Doc AV
 
#19 ·
Brake Cleaner works fine for Carbon-coated Pistons and Gas cylinders (Garand, Bren, M60, Soviet Firearms, etc etc...) BUT is USELESS for the salts of Corrosive ammo. The British and Commonwealth Armies method of Hot water, followed by a scrub dry and oil, is still the Simplest (and Best) Method K.I.S.S. (Old army saying) Doc AV
Doc and AR Man have stated the case well. Any manner you get the water to flush down the bore will do the job...Ronbos hot water heater, the Brit Army funnel, rubber tube into chamber, etc etc. If your water is pure, or Windex or other product that is water based (or 10% Ballistol in water), its still water that dissolves the salts . After that, its on you to clean the bore and oil/grease it properly.

Taking care of ones bore is a passionate subject and the sooner the better after shooting corrosive ammo. Sooner is better, no one can argue that but how soon is up to you.

I own the Brit Army funnel, a fine piece of gear and I fully believe hot water poured into bore is the best way (Victory laps to AR Man, DocAV, Ronbo). No contest but ....10 yrs ago, while holding rifle with funnel in the chamber and pouring a kettle of boiling water into funnel, its struck me its a risk and I no longer do it. I use cold water and I do it at the range and its been working fine . I know its not perfect so I am very thorough with many bore flushes and cleaning out bore. Works for me.

Leon who is on these boards had a regime that was very thorough. He flushed his bore first with a solution of water with a bit of Dawn in it, followed up with a clean water flush, patched the bore dry (which also took out lots of cruddy black crap from burnt powder from bore), Then he shot WD 40 down bore and patched bore dry..the WD 40 taking out any residual water hidding in bore and lastly applied Ballistol (or any oil / CLP would work) down bore and he was done.

His method was very thorough. I used to do it but got lazy over the years and just do cold water flushes and proper cleaning of bore afterwards. So far my short cut has worked but Leons method means a cleaner bore faster in my opinion. Takes a bit more time to do but it is thorough.

But arm wrestle all we want on "how'', the basic fact is those of us that use water are correct and those who deny water use are blissfully ignorant. Water is a fact, like it or not.

Special Mention In Dispatches to Ronbo and his water heater. He remains the champion of the hot water method unless there is someone out there that has a steam powered device .
 
#12 ·
well lots of comments and i would love to see the chemistry to support opinions.

salt dissolves in water till saturation point( aint gonna happen in a rifle).

heat accelerates most reactions.
we end up with hot water.

soap reduces surface tension and allows faster
contact with the salt, a better flow over the surfaces.
 
#14 ·
I use an old washer water hose, with the end cut off.

Hook it up to the basement stationary tub and standing the rifle on the muzzle in the drain run it thru the back end of the action with the bolt removed into the chamber.

It forms a nice tight fit in the chamber and the back of the receiver holds the hose in place..

Start hot water on low and run it until the receiver gets hot. Takes a couple of minutes.

Run a couple of patches thru to make sure it's dry then a few with bore cleaner and then oil it.
 
#15 ·
I have never found anything better than HOT soapy water! The problem is that corrosive salts get into the pores of the metal and cause rust. To remove the salts requires that "something" dissolves the salts an removes them from the pores of the metal. Nothing beats HOT soapy water to do that job!
 
#17 ·
I use a car battery filling bulb (looks like a giant turkey baster) with about six inches of hose attached to it. At the end of the hose I inserted a spent .303 shell with the rim cut off. Works great for directing water down the bore. I have the advantage of having the range about 40 meters from my back door so water is always available. I am like the rest of you, when the shooting is done, NOTHING goes before the cleaning.
 
#20 ·
AS any Railroad enthusiast knows, The Salts that adhere to High pressure boiler walls and are not "
dissolved" by hot water are the Calcium salts ( insoluble) precipitated by Heating....( ie, Calcium Carbonate etc.) That's why they have "
Wash-out" plugs in the boiler's nether regions, and why "soft" water is preferred for both Mainline Locomotives (now sadly few) and Model Engineering scale Locos.

Sodium and Potassium salts are all Water soluble, both by ambient temperature , and because energy (Heat) increases the rate of solution, better still by Hot water...in fact, in the Australian Army, the Preferred method was to pass by the Wiles Cooker -- a Catering Corps 4- wheel Trailer, with a proper Steam Boiler and Oven (wood fired) for Field Kitchen use ( all the Tented camps had them available). The Cookie would use his "steam wand" ( used for heating water, Mashed Potatoes, soups etc) and give each rifle a shot of Steam via the chamber ( the chamber was a perfect fit for the wand nozzle) and that was our "Salt Dissolver". The Barrel was hot, so dried quicklyu, and then the bore was swabbed with Oil before cleaning the outer parts, and returning to opur tents after a day at the range.

Woe to him who did not pass by the Cooker...next day, a rusty barrel and extra duty awaited...cleaning the Bren Guns etc, as well as a bollocking from the CSM.

Doc AV (4 years High School Cadets, SMLEs & Brens,( Corrosive); 6 years Reserves (Infantry and Armoured)-- SMLEs,( Corrosive); L1A1 & M60, (non corrosive); BMG .30 cals ( Corrosive US WW II ammo) & BMG .50 cal (Non corrosive)
 
#24 · (Edited)
AS any Railroad enthusiast knows, The Salts that adhere to High pressure boiler walls and are not "
dissolved" by hot water are the Calcium salts ( insoluble) precipitated by Heating....( ie, Calcium Carbonate etc.) That's why they have "
Wash-out" plugs in the boiler's nether regions, and why "soft" water is preferred for both Mainline Locomotives (now sadly few) and Model Engineering scale Locos.


Sodium and Potassium salts are all Water soluble, both by ambient temperature , and because energy (Heat) increases the rate of solution, better still by Hot water...in fact, in the Australian Army, the Preferred method was to pass by the Wiles Cooker -- a Catering Corps 4- wheel Trailer, with a proper Steam Boiler and Oven (wood fired) for Field Kitchen use ( all the Tented camps had them available). The Cookie would use his "steam wand" ( used for heating water, Mashed Potatoes, soups etc) and give each rifle a shot of Steam via the chamber ( the chamber was a perfect fit for the wand nozzle) and that was our "Salt Dissolver". The Barrel was hot, so dried quicklyu, and then the bore was swabbed with Oil before cleaning the outer parts, and returning to opur tents after a day at the range.

Woe to him who did not pass by the Cooker...next day, a rusty barrel and extra duty awaited...cleaning the Bren Guns etc, as well as a bollocking from the CSM.

Doc AV (4 years High School Cadets, SMLEs & Brens,( Corrosive); 6 years Reserves (Infantry and Armoured)-- SMLEs,( Corrosive); L1A1 & M60, (non corrosive); BMG .30 cals ( Corrosive US WW II ammo) & BMG .50 cal (Non corrosive)
Truer words were never spoken. Several years ago my wife was working in a local YMCA and she asked me to come by and troubleshoot the boiler for their steam room. After not 'working well' for quite some time, the boiler had almost completely stopped putting out steam.

My steam power plant experience gave me probably 1000% more experience in the operation of boilers (even this tiny one) than anyone else that they knew that they could have called..

When I opened the inspection port on the boiler, the problem was glaringly obvious.

This was three or four years after the facility had opened, and they had run that boiler since Day 1 on 'local city water' with NO maintenance schedule.

The boiler was almost 100% filled with 'calcium rocks' from the impurities left behind when all the steam left the boiler over the years.

My recommendations were simple. Get somebody to remove the rocks from the boiler and when it is back in service, have somebody 'blow down' the boiler on at least a daily basis when it is running.

My 'perfect solution' would have been to install a blowdown valve on a timer, but they didn't have it in their budget to do so,

Popeye can tell you that 'Blowing Down' is a practice where you open a drain valve on your boiler to just let some water escape. If you keep feeding impure water to a boiler, the water inside the boiler will accumulate all the 'solids' (the volume of water inside the boiler contains all the 'stuff' that was in ALL the water that previously went through the boiler). Once some of that heavily contaminated water is removed, it is replaced with water with far less impurities in it, it mixes with the water still in the boiler, and the average concentration of 'crud' in the water is going to end up significantly lower.

Blowing the boiler down regularly controls the amount of solids in the boiler and it should take a LOT longer to get into a state where the boiler is 'making rocks', if ever.
 
#21 ·
Water, ammonia, carb cleaner, engine oil....... So much science behind a simple act. Just clean the thing.

I use CLP because I happen to have it. Few pases with CLP patch, few with a clean patch followed by a brush. Do that a few times and done. I don't clean any differently than any other gun. A few minutes and done. Been doing this for over a decade without issues and I do live in a state with all four seasons including snow, rain and humidity.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
#26 ·
Water, ammonia, carb cleaner, engine oil....... So much science behind a simple act. Just clean the thing.



Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Well this IS the 21st century LOL if they now have an electric pacemaker that is more efficient, I would prefer that to the old tried and true crank model that has been in use since the 1800's.

I didn't know that the salt adheres to the metal and can only be released by water, I was hoping that a solvent spray would accomplish the same thing easier, and that if they had had it available back in the day they may have considered using something similar also.
 
#22 ·
i think( a dangerous concept) the time interval between end of shooting,
and cleaning is dictated by ambient temp and humidity.

low temps slow chemical reactions...longer time to clean.
high temps speed chemical reactions, less time to clean.

high humidity aids our chemical reaction, less time to clean.

so what is required at one persons range is not universal to all.
here in colorado i have seen rust(corrosive ammo) in a bbl in aprox
TWO HOURS from end of shooting till cleaning.

time based on what prevents rust where you are.
 
#25 ·
Here is a picture of the funnel the British Army issued. It fit in the chamber and was nicely offset to clear the action.
View attachment 2330330

View attachment 2330354 The Vickers makes a most excellent source of hot water. After all, cleaning up after ONE round of corrosive is no less hassle than cleaning up after a thousand.

Gun Machine gun Airsoft Airsoft gun
 
#28 ·
Umm how many people dunk their entire weapon in a tub of water to clean it? If you use an aerosol cleaner you don't spray the stock and you don't spray the outside, you spray the bore and inside of the action where the dirt and grime are at. Just like when you flush a weapon with water ;)
 
#30 ·
I put kerosine in "hot" bores, bolt faces to keep carbon powders from "clinging" after going cold sticking...holding salts underneath....is my opinion.

after I get home from range, I'm water scrubbing or most likely windex scrubbing.....
it actually cuts cleaning time down and patch numbers.

water key to neutralizing salts....no queston about!

kerosene in hot bore at range is key to faster, deeper cleaning ...

No it doesn't replace water as I and you said and I agree with your statements...
 
#31 ·
from a chemistry approach, almost any polar solvent will work to dissolve and wash away potassium chloride. The cheapest, easiest to acquire, and safest polar solvent is water.
Using hot water instead of cold water does two things,
#1. Salts are more easily dissolved in hot water.
#2. The hot water is more likely to evaporate and not leave little puddles of water that can create rust.

That being said, hot water is not necessary and it does add a bit more danger to the process if you use really hot or boiling water and it splashes on you.
To be sure your water is out, its best to follow up any water or water containing solvent with patches of kerosene, gun cleaning solvent, hoppes #9, etc. And of course some kind of oil.
 
#32 ·
you have the correct idea..get rid of the water afterwards,
but which one of those actually, chemically, removes water ?
the answer is wd-40.
Water Displacement...formula number 40. invented for the space industry.
to remove salt water( from the atmosphere) from the ss parts of the ATLAS rockets, STORED AND LAUNCHED from the west coast.
 
#36 ·
Actually Hoppes #9 is a corrosive primer bore cleaner, it says so right on the carton. I used nothing else firing issue MkVII ball & that's both corrosive & erosive & as long as you clean thoroughly & immediately it worked fine for the whole time.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top