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Thread: post naval jelly appearance?

  1. #1
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    Default post naval jelly appearance?

    I have a Brazilian mauser that looks like it's been derusted on the TG and forward part of the barrel. Can someone take a look at these pictures and tell me if the grey metal looks like it's been derusted with naval jelly? I've never used the stuff so I'm not sure. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moconnor View Post
    I have a Brazilian mauser that looks like it's been derusted on the TG and forward part of the barrel. Can someone take a look at these pictures and tell me if the grey metal looks like it's been derusted with naval jelly? I've never used the stuff so I'm not sure. Thanks.
    From the pictures, it sure looks like the tell-tale "etching" effect of Naval Jelly. Especially on the barrel, where the bluing looks washed out. I could be wrong though...

    However it was done, I'm surprised whoever did the de-rusting didn't hit that pitted area behind the faded area.
    Last edited by Blackthorn762; 01-01-2009 at 02:58 PM.
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  3. #3
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    My dad used Naval Jelly and I saw that it sorta stained metal white, kinda like that, yes. Accordingly I never used it...
    Alden

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    I believe the active ingredient in Naval Jelly is phosphoric acid. It changes rust (iron oxide) into iron phosphate.

    Here is a bit from an article in Wikipedia: "Rust removal

    Phosphoric acid may be used by direct application to rusted iron, steel tools, or surfaces to convert iron(III) oxide (rust) to a water-soluble phosphate compound. It is usually available as a greenish liquid, suitable for dipping (acid bath), but is more generally used as a component in a gel, commonly called naval jelly. As a thick gel, it may be applied to sloping, vertical, or even overhead surfaces. Care must be taken to avoid acid burns of the skin and especially the eyes, but the residue is easily diluted with water. When sufficiently diluted, it can even be nutritious to plant life, containing the essential nutrients phosphorus and iron. It is sometimes sold under other names, such as "rust remover" or "rust killer." It should not be directly introduced into surface water such as creeks or into drains, however. After treatment, the reddish-brown iron oxide will be converted to a black iron phosphate compound coating that may be scrubbed off. Multiple applications of phosphoric acid may be required to remove all rust. The resultant black compound can provide further corrosion resistance (such protection is somewhat provided by the superficially similar Parkerizing and blued electrochemical conversion coating processes). After application and removal of rust using phosphoric acid compounds, the metal should be oiled (if to be used bare, as in a tool) or appropriately painted, by using a multiple coat process of primer, intermediate, and finish coats."
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  5. #5
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    I think that answers it. Thanks for the replies.

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    I agree it is very much like the finely frosted finish left by naval jelly, although other acids, such as dilute hydrochloric, leave a similar surface and are usable for the purpose.

    A key point, though, is that with naval jelly the phosphate residue falls from the surface and isn't deposited. It can be blued very satisfactorily, with or without some smoothing with steel wool or fine abrasive powder if you want a smoother satin finish which will hold dust marks less.

    The products to avoid with guns are those which claim to leave the surface rust resistant. This involves a phosphate coating, probably held by some kind of lacquer, which will make any refinishing patchy.

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    There are also some products out there that when painted on to a rusty surface will supposedly either stop or convert the rust. The one I have seen was a paint on solution and while it said on the can "( remove heavy visible rust with wire brush before applying coating) Have used it on wrought iron railings after using small angle grinder to get as much loose rust off as possible. The coating turns sort of a brownish black. Not a problem as the next coating was rustoleum gloss black. Home depot and I'm sure Lowe's sells a product called ospho or something similar in gallon jugs that is phosphoric acid. The corner of the trigger guard does show some pitting so there must have been rust. 5 minutes in a bead blaster would have left the parts ready for blueing. You try to use the stream to blend in any sharp spots like where pitting existed. We had one at work. I had a manufacture's nameplate from a WWII liberty ship. Green verdigris all over the lettering. Lightly blasted the plate and polished the tops of the letters. Then sprayed laquer all over the plate. 30 years later the laquer is starting to chip. But has help up very well. Frank

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank46 View Post
    There are also some products out there that when painted on to a rusty surface will supposedly either stop or convert the rust. The one I have seen was a paint on solution and while it said on the can "( remove heavy visible rust with wire brush before applying coating) Have used it on wrought iron railings after using small angle grinder to get as much loose rust off as possible. The coating turns sort of a brownish black. Not a problem as the next coating was rustoleum gloss black. Home depot and I'm sure Lowe's sells a product called ospho or something similar in gallon jugs that is phosphoric acid. The corner of the trigger guard does show some pitting so there must have been rust. 5 minutes in a bead blaster would have left the parts ready for blueing. You try to use the stream to blend in any sharp spots like where pitting existed. We had one at work. I had a manufacture's nameplate from a WWII liberty ship. Green verdigris all over the lettering. Lightly blasted the plate and polished the tops of the letters. Then sprayed laquer all over the plate. 30 years later the laquer is starting to chip. But has help up very well. Frank
    That is the sort of product I meant. It might be perfectly suitable for ironwork which will be painted, but not for guns.

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