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  1. #1

    Default New England Westinghouse M91 dates

    Originally posted by Al

    New England Westinghouse initially produced the M1891 Infantry Rifle for two years, from early 1915 to early 1917. During this period some 770,000 rifles were made. The production rate apparently peaked at a figure approaching 160,000 rifles a month (according to the company) in around August 1915. (If this is true it seems possible that the majority of weapons may have actually been made in 1915!)
    In 1918 the US government contracted N.E.W. for a further 200,000 rifles.
    (All above data from Lapin, "The Mosin-Nagant Rifle" 3rd ed.)
    This suggests a total approaching 1 million weapons manufactured over three years of production. (Four calendar years.)
    All N.E.W. m/91's are stamped 1915.
    There are five distinct logo styles; Cyrillic (very early and rare)
    Two 'curved' patterns (also early?)
    Two 'straight' patterns (3mm and 2 mm fonts) later(?)
    Hopefully if we can gather serial number and logo style data we may be able to form some idea as to approximate years of production for any particular weapon. Hopefully.
    Any other stampings of interest may be of help too.

    Guess I'll start the ball rolling with mine:

    s/n 744323
    straight logo, 2mm font
    (Finn capture, SA & D stamps)

    I had a look at a friend's N.E.W. last night.
    Same logo style as combat32's 800,000 series rifle.
    s/n 913879

    combat32


    Here are both of mine, early curved logo #62690, and a straight logo #850753. Both are SA marked and have very few NEW parts except barrel and receiver.

    Big Brother John

    Here is my M91...
    Early curved
    SA marked
    1915
    S/N is 337548
    Bolt is polish

    keithreid

    hello! i haven't made it home yet to get the info on the ones there, but i did farm one off an internet auction for your survey today. the logo matches the one posted by big brother john, and s/n was 58889. y'all have a good day, Keith

    marysdad

    s/n 647345
    Straight logo; 2mm font

    Ralph

    MikeG

    Mine is similar to Al's:

    s/n 651366
    straight logo, 2mm font
    (Finn capture, SA & D stamps)
    worn rifle refurbed into new 2- piece stock with filled in disk hole.

    finnmn

    439968 - curved
    499937 - straight
    510691 - curved
    550188 - straight
    576547 - straight
    654837 - straight
    704490 - straight
    852358 - straight
    1128092 - straight

    Ron W

    1246362 is my highest serial number. Don't have logo style reported on my spreadsheet and will take a while till I can get around to digging out the guns. Will report on that later.

    USMCsean

    Finn Captured
    Just like Combat32's Logo
    SN: 844644

    As a side note, I think Combat32's and mine were stamped by the same machine. As seen on his W in NEW, the left leg is missing, and so is mine and looks EXACTLY the same as his. Kinda neat.

    godsey5

    1915
    809412
    straight logo, finn capture,civil guard marked and then remarked.

    Jim

    manygunsmike

    I have two NEW's

    #1 NEW straight logo 1915 Finn SA marked,
    Number 495812 Has a Russian bolt with NEW parts #495812
    Finn splice stock with wire hangers. missing stock disk.
    Has #83 on bottom of buttplate?

    #2 NEW straight logo 1915 (very lightly stamped)
    Looks like a small Eagle stamped under the Imperial Eagle on the barrel?
    Number 784212 (very lightly stamped) Remmington bolt with #272980
    American walnut stock with a Finn hand guard? No import stamps.


    PeterS

    here my new NEW,

    serial# 543022, SA and D, with NEW-Cartouche 1916....

    Al

    Looks like we have a transition from curved logo to straight logo between 510,691 (Finnmn) and 543,022 (PeterS).
    Can we tighten this up even further?

    7.62x54r

    "quarter" curved logo, # 456453
    2 mm straight logo, # 597051
    2 mm straight logo, # 205874

    I guess that last one throws a kink in things, huh?

    Al

    It does. Pity it isn't 1205874.
    Oh well, so much for that theory.

    Admittedly I find it a bit surprising that, given these rifles were made in the 'States, the information on production numbers and dates of production is so difficult to tie down precisely.

    PapaBear

    My NEW is straight logo 2mm font
    s/n 807683 SA stamped twice, once on left
    side of receiver and once on top of receiver.

    rocker98

    2mm straight
    906182

    poilu


    Here's mine:
    1-#110641-curved,letters 2mm
    2-#786156- straight,2mm, US issue
    3-#1319309( any higher?),staight,2mm, multiple US eagle proofs on receiver-I think most are attributed to NEW US inspections found in Clawson's book "Colt .45 Service Pistols" page 242. Usually you'll see one on the receiver.(x1,x2,x4,x5,y7,k44?). Does anyone have pictures to show of the 3mm lettering?

    gijive

    My N.E.W. is a 1915 curved letters, no serial number never issued. Stock is stamped SCHOOL ONLY with a rack number 42 in several spots. Condition excellent.

    cetracer

    # 845807
    1915 dated,
    Straight Logo,
    SA and D marked.

    jcnez762

    # 927262
    SA marked
    Straight logo

    withergyld

    #498682
    The lettering is 1/16" tall (sorry no metric ruler)
    [SA]marked with 3 civil guard numbers.
    The top of the tang near the safety has the number 6 stamped on it and the Westinghouse "E"

    Annie Oakley

    Straight logo, letters about 1/16th inch tall, s/n 641523, SA in box.

    Wester

    2MM Straight Logo
    SA marked
    S/N 875227

    1893Chat


    Curved Logo Lots of cyr. PK proofs and "arrowed letters" on the stock
    2MM
    S/N 148312
    Looks unissued, No import, No SA. Never left the US.

    poilu

    NEW small curved New England # 436

    biggs1deer

    straight lettering 1915 serial no.1116742 stamped over ground off imperial crest is a circle with arrow coming off it.O->

    Windstar

    Mine has the straight logo in the smaller font, SA and D marked, faint crest and serial No. 598355. Nice Finn stock.

    Al

    Ted, I was looking again at #205874. Is it possible that it might have been renumbered elsewhere?
    It's just that the s/n on #205874 looks a bit offset to the left (to make room for the 'F'??) and seems much deeper struck than the surviving N.E.W. logo etc. What do you think, is it possible?
    Is the s/n in the same font as on your other NEWs?
    Admittedly I'm clutching at straws a bit here. I thought I was rather cleverly narrowing down the transition boundary. In the lab we'd call that an anomalous data point and hope no-one noticed!

    daxloves

    2mm strait logo
    s/n 1344331
    1 eagle x2
    3 eagle x4
    1 eagle y6
    2 eagle x? cant read #
    1 flame bomb
    all on barrel

    1 flame bomb on rcever and 2 on bolt handle w/ mathing s/n.

    7.62x54r


    Al, sorry about the slow reply. I had my NEWs out this weekend and I don't think that 205874 has been scrubbed or renumbered. I need to get a better picture of it but just haven't had a chance.

    Here's a thread I started in the Collector's Forum on variations in straight logos. I think there's a lot more to this than we realized.

    Al

    Good thread. I think you're right. This is more complicated than it first appears.
    Can you move the thread here to the Survey forum? Perhaps replace this one with it?

    7.62x54r

    Al, I can't move anything from the Collector's Forum, only out of the Survey Forum. Brent or Vic could move it but I don't know if we would want to replace this one and lose the information here.

    What do you think about just gathering all the information and pictures so far and posting them in a new thread? You could do that yourself and wouldn't even need to upload the pictures again as you could just copy the code from each post through the "edit" function. That would be an opportunity to organize it somewhat and clean it up. Just don't forget to credit the owners for each one. After that was done then I could delete this thread.

    Those four in the other thread and the one curved I posted towards the bottom of it are all of mine with the exception of #205874. I need to get a better picture of it although the eagle and part of the wording is pretty badly scrubbed so it might not help much in the whole scheme of things.
    Last edited by 7.62x54r; 09-11-2007 at 07:01 AM.

  2. #2
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    Dec 1969
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    Default

    Missed this one too! My NEW is an earlier make like Ted's last one listed:

    Straight logo, 2mm
    247731 s/n
    SA w/ CG# S 55007 stamped on right butt.

    T

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    25

    Default

    Here is My N.E.W.
    it is SA marked.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  4. #4

    Default

    My first M91. very happy with it.
    N.E.W.
    Straight 2mm stamped
    serial# 1285851

    Missing handguard though, did all the Westinghouse rifles originally have them? (Yes, but please keep questions to the Collector's Forum. Thanks, 7.62x54r)
    Last edited by 7.62x54r; 10-05-2007 at 02:37 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Austin, Texas
    Posts
    141

    Default

    Here is my N.E.W.

    # 69674
    Straight Logo,
    Very Light and scrubbed
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails IMG_0981[1].JPG   IMG_0981A[2].JPG  

  6. #6
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    Dec 1969
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    Riding a Llama straight to hell
    Posts
    2,874

    Default

    101637
    Curved logo
    SA marked

    225690
    Straight logo 2mm
    Puolustuslaitos marked

    247222
    Straight logo 2mm
    SA marked

    631951
    Straight logo 3mm
    SA and CG S#

    817071
    Straight logo 3mm
    SA marked

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    965

    Default

    SN 647369
    Straight logo, 2mm font
    Finn capture, SA stamped, no D stamp, Civil Guard #SS37358 on right rear of barrel, crossed cannon "9" cartouche, along with AV3/11633 stamped on the one piece butt stock, which I believe Vic ID'd as being European Walnut.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    176

    Default

    111950, Curved. SA marked. Stock with British contract mark.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    4,067

    Default

    Straight 3mm
    816774
    SA over crest
    n in circle right side
    thick "C" left side
    SA in box left side next to what looks like ck in circle
    small n or upside down u right side

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    My Own World (OHIO)
    Posts
    947

    Default

    2mm logo
    sn# 1116742
    There is an A F H not in a row but scattered on right side of shank.
    The eagle was scrubbed and a circle with arrow stamped in its place O-> like Man symbol.
    Oops I already did this poll --sorry .

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    368

    Default

    1915
    Curved Logo
    "SA" Marked
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Resize of DSC02751.JPG   Resize of DSC01578.JPG  
    ""...As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body, and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson


  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Bristol, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    226
    # 186555
    Straight 2mm font

    Imported by Century from ??? 2-3 years ago.

    Imperial Eagle neatly ground & polished away & reblued. No additional national marks, i.e., Finn or Bulgarian. Has large capital Cyrillic P and N on front of receiver ring. Bolt is an Izhevsk pre-1928, other parts match.

    Finally found the Bulgarian "pinecone." On the left of the butt near the sling swivel slot. Hadn't recognized it, thought it just a dent.
    Last edited by OldIronMan; 01-19-2008 at 03:25 PM. Reason: Additional info
    "A cheerful heart is good medicine."

  13. #13
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    Dec 1969
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    1,188

    Default

    My "NEW" has trhe SA on left side of receiver, is a straight line wording and is dated 1916 with serial 480567 with a big D under it. an Eagle is above the New England wording...........

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    41

    Default

    Got my N.E.W a couple of years ago. It's dated 1915, sn 862517, with a 2mm straight logo; a Finn capture in a Finn two piece stock, SA on the side of the receiver. The rifle is complete in very good condition, but the bolt is numbered 362517 - so close to the reciever number that it makes me think someone made a mistake when they did the bolt. This is the only M91 in my collection.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    750

    Default Westinghouse 1915

    My serial number is 1044196, without handguard, do not think it ever had a handguard. Bolt is mis-matched s/n 35532 with R in circle at handle root. My father bought this rifle in the 1950's.

  16. #16

    Default Westinghouse Mosin-Nagant

    My rifle is used but has curved logo 1915 SN 49305 and Fin Stamped with [SA] and some of these (y) in a circle.
    Nice gun compared to some of the other 91's I have in my collection.

    Albayo

  17. #17
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    Oct 2007
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Mine is:
    Large Curved Logo
    #450650
    Stylized Eagle
    Blonde unknown(to me) wood Stock marked 3AR3b AHrNINCKIN in a roundel on the left side, rK in a small roundel on the right side. Tang has "E arrow". Bolt has "H arrow" Bolt serialized to rifle. Unumbered Floorplate. Magazine has "R arrow" stamp, as do the Rear Sight and Bands. Buttplate is serialized to the rifle, no letter with arrow marking.
    Rifle is all Westinghouse, matching, and near mint.
    (looks like RP's above)
    Closer inspection reveals the "E" on the end of WESTINGHOUSE is slightly oversized, and flairs upward. The "W" is the same size and font as the rest of the logo.
    Last edited by 339th; 02-15-2009 at 12:36 PM. Reason: additional info

  18. #18
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    Dec 1969
    Location
    Way Up North
    Posts
    565

    Default

    Here is mine.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 690c12.jpg  

  19. #19
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    Feb 2008
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    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    6

    Default

    #1- Curved logo dated 1915, SA marked ser# 84984

    #2 Straight logo dated 1915, SA marked ser# 827727

  20. #20
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    Dec 1969
    Posts
    656

    Default



    just thought I'd add mine!

  21. #21
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    Sep 2007
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    S.E. USA
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    88

    Default

    Straight 1/16

    no handguard
    676797
    Last edited by aspann; 05-19-2008 at 07:16 PM.

  22. #22
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    Dec 1969
    Posts
    1,224

    Default

    straight logo
    1915
    #586137
    finn capture

  23. #23
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    Sep 2007
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    751

    Default

    Straight logo
    Looks like 3mm#1156810
    Unissued condition unfired, absolutely mint.
    Will be posting pics soon.

  24. #24
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    Oct 2007
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    Resident of the Northern State of California
    Posts
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    Default

    I have 2 NEW's

    This is Finned, curved small logo
    1915
    458263
    Matching and on its way to me

    Last edited by 7.62x54r; 03-14-2008 at 06:51 AM. Reason: Off topic
    Mark

    Resident of the Northern Republic of California


    "You have to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything." - Abby

    "The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." - Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Behind the Cheese Curtain
    Posts
    271

    Default

    S/N 901706 straight, PL marked, Finn 2-piece stock

  26. #26
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    Dec 1969
    Posts
    11

    Default

    Mine is strait, 2mm letter size, sn 749584, 1915, SA marked, original stock, Civil Guard #SS137641.

    Kevin in Or.

  27. #27
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    May 2008
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    South metro Atlanta area.
    Posts
    2,430

    Default

    Got my Westinghouse today. Straight, 2mm font. 1019253

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Blaine, MN
    Posts
    463

    Default Here's mine

    Straight Logo
    Stylized Eagle
    Double SA stamps
    637146
    Looks like a finn matched bolt

  29. #29
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    Jun 2008
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    North East Geergia
    Posts
    1

    Default

    I have a Finned NEW, curved small logo. SN 144xxx :D

    That's the large curved logo. - Ted


    Last edited by 7.62x54r; 06-22-2008 at 11:45 AM. Reason: Correction on logo
    I like the bayonet lug, cause every good weapon deserves a pointy edged sharp piece of metal protruding conspicuously from underneath the muzzle. - SoCalShooter

    There is no problem on Earth that can not be solved with the proper application of high explosives - unknown

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    16

    Default

    westinghouse 1915 814335


    westinghouse 1915 sporterized 1143763


    westinghouse 1915 901767 Instructie rifle stock painted



    Will post pictures later.

  31. #31
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    Oct 2008
    Location
    TX
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    Default

    I found this baby and at first totally missed the flaming bombs, and didn't realize that the eagles were an American marking.
    I emailed Ted from 7.62x54r.net and he stated that it was most likely used by the Polar Bear Expedition (wikipedia it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_Bear_Expedition)
    Thought you guys might like to check it out.
    I can't remember who he said would have ground on it.
    serial 130336X


    ps sorry for the semi-poor pics
    ps again:
    Ted also told me that someone who knows more about American markings might be able to help me out a little more on identification of it there are 6 eagles that say various numbers with x's before. however, I can only make out two of them for sure. x24 and x12. Any ideas what that might mean?
    Last edited by ACarpenter; 10-04-2008 at 09:48 AM.

  32. #32
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    Dec 1969
    Location
    San Diego, CA
    Posts
    1,084

    Default

    Just adding mine. Obtained from another board member so it could be a repeat.

  33. #33
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    Dec 1969
    Posts
    267

    Default

    Mine no.1352900,eagle markings,flaming bomb.Finn rework forearm spliced.Bolt and reciver match.

  34. #34

    Default

    Here is my N.E.W. unfortunately it's demilitarized in Belgium (many markings to prove that it’s demilitarized on the receiver and barrel) but otherwise it's a nice Finnish captured rifle with all original parts except the bolt and front sight changed by the Finns when they renumbered the rear sight in meters.





    The stock is marked 1916:


    I know it's not important but these are the markings from the bolt.





  35. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    114

    Default Only one to report...

    SN 608138, 2mm straight font, Finn stamped SA, twice. Forced matched bolt, a Remington, go figure. The rest matching. Finn sling swivels. Bore counterbored 1/4 inch...chris3

  36. #36
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    Dec 1969
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    The dry side of WA State
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    7,062

    Default

    Here is a pic of my two N.E.W.'s - add em to the survey if you wish

    Pahtu.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2N.E.W..JPG  

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    DFW, Texas
    Posts
    50

    Default

    NE W 666515
    Straight Logo
    Finnish refinish
    Last edited by ftr53; 11-17-2008 at 10:38 PM.

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Mobile, AL.
    Posts
    232

    Default

    New England Westinghouse
    2mm Straight
    1162630

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    South Mississippi
    Posts
    861

    Default 1915 NEW Small Straight Logo

    Walnut stock, U.S. Property stamp on bottom.
    Serial No. 1079728.
    Bolt body & magazine floorplate do not match.
    Bore looks new/unfired.
    "To preserve Liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess Arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
    Richard Henry Lee, 1787

    Help preserve this retired American fighting ship;
    http://www.ussorleck.org

  40. #40
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    Sep 2007
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    905

    Default

    NEW barrel, reciever & magazine, stock is Chaterallaut, 237969 stamped on left side of butt, German WW1 capture cartouche on right side, 2mm straight with eagle scrubbed, only parts matching are barrel & reciever - S/N 913590, nothing on butt plate, Finn SSE's with hangers. No SA marking. Izhevsk bolt. 2 other circular cartouches on rt. side of stock but can't read them. Same size as capture cartouche. If the flaming bomb should be on underneath side behind trigger housing there is a wood repair there so I have no way of knowing.
    Last edited by DCman; 02-04-2009 at 12:03 AM.
    As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.


    Always looking for M-39's. Especially in Georgia.

  41. #41
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    Mar 2008
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    Indianapolis, IN
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    476

    Default

    I read on a Russian site that Westinghouse also sold their Mosins in the states for a number of years after production and that as interest started dropping off, sold them in sporter stocks to gain interest. Anyone heard this before?

  42. #42

    Default

    1917 s/n 326221 SA marked original stock

  43. #43
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Denham Springs LA.
    Posts
    1,175

    Default

    Here is one of mine. It is 100% original and most likley in this condition because it is demilled and sat in a private collection for over 30 years.


    Yes, that is six US Property stamps on the barrel shank.



    The sights still have the original paint in the numbers and there is still cosmoline on the rifle.








    And here is the English contract stamp.

  44. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Posts
    250

    Default Westinghouse M91

    Curved logo
    S/N 120167
    1915

  45. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Hollywood, Florida
    Posts
    395

    Default

    NEW #1247058

    All matching US proofs
    Last edited by Jagerschnapps1; 05-17-2009 at 04:54 PM.

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