Originally posted by Al
New England Westinghouse initially produced the M1891 Infantry Rifle for two years, from early 1915 to early 1917. During this period some 770,000 rifles were made. The production rate apparently peaked at a figure approaching 160,000 rifles a month (according to the company) in around August 1915. (If this is true it seems possible that the majority of weapons may have actually been made in 1915!)
In 1918 the US government contracted N.E.W. for a further 200,000 rifles.
(All above data from Lapin, "The Mosin-Nagant Rifle" 3rd ed.)
This suggests a total approaching 1 million weapons manufactured over three years of production. (Four calendar years.)
All N.E.W. m/91's are stamped 1915.
There are five distinct logo styles; Cyrillic (very early and rare)
Two 'curved' patterns (also early?)
Two 'straight' patterns (3mm and 2 mm fonts) later(?)
Hopefully if we can gather serial number and logo style data we may be able to form some idea as to approximate years of production for any particular weapon. Hopefully.
Any other stampings of interest may be of help too.
Guess I'll start the ball rolling with mine:
straight logo, 2mm font
(Finn capture, SA & D stamps)
I had a look at a friend's N.E.W. last night.
Same logo style as combat32's 800,000 series rifle.
Here are both of mine, early curved logo #62690, and a straight logo #850753. Both are SA marked and have very few NEW parts except barrel and receiver.
Big Brother John
Here is my M91...
S/N is 337548
Bolt is polish
hello! i haven't made it home yet to get the info on the ones there, but i did farm one off an internet auction for your survey today. the logo matches the one posted by big brother john, and s/n was 58889. y'all have a good day, Keith
Straight logo; 2mm font
Mine is similar to Al's:
straight logo, 2mm font
(Finn capture, SA & D stamps)
worn rifle refurbed into new 2- piece stock with filled in disk hole.
439968 - curved
499937 - straight
510691 - curved
550188 - straight
576547 - straight
654837 - straight
704490 - straight
852358 - straight
1128092 - straight
1246362 is my highest serial number. Don't have logo style reported on my spreadsheet and will take a while till I can get around to digging out the guns. Will report on that later.
Just like Combat32's Logo
As a side note, I think Combat32's and mine were stamped by the same machine. As seen on his W in NEW, the left leg is missing, and so is mine and looks EXACTLY the same as his. Kinda neat.
straight logo, finn capture,civil guard marked and then remarked.
I have two NEW's
#1 NEW straight logo 1915 Finn SA marked,
Number 495812 Has a Russian bolt with NEW parts #495812
Finn splice stock with wire hangers. missing stock disk.
Has #83 on bottom of buttplate?
#2 NEW straight logo 1915 (very lightly stamped)
Looks like a small Eagle stamped under the Imperial Eagle on the barrel?
Number 784212 (very lightly stamped) Remmington bolt with #272980
American walnut stock with a Finn hand guard? No import stamps.
here my new NEW,
serial# 543022, SA and D, with NEW-Cartouche 1916....
Looks like we have a transition from curved logo to straight logo between 510,691 (Finnmn) and 543,022 (PeterS).
Can we tighten this up even further?
"quarter" curved logo, # 456453
2 mm straight logo, # 597051
2 mm straight logo, # 205874
I guess that last one throws a kink in things, huh?
It does. Pity it isn't 1205874.
Oh well, so much for that theory.
Admittedly I find it a bit surprising that, given these rifles were made in the 'States, the information on production numbers and dates of production is so difficult to tie down precisely.
My NEW is straight logo 2mm font
s/n 807683 SA stamped twice, once on left
side of receiver and once on top of receiver.
2-#786156- straight,2mm, US issue
3-#1319309( any higher?),staight,2mm, multiple US eagle proofs on receiver-I think most are attributed to NEW US inspections found in Clawson's book "Colt .45 Service Pistols" page 242. Usually you'll see one on the receiver.(x1,x2,x4,x5,y7,k44?). Does anyone have pictures to show of the 3mm lettering?
My N.E.W. is a 1915 curved letters, no serial number never issued. Stock is stamped SCHOOL ONLY with a rack number 42 in several spots. Condition excellent.
SA and D marked.
The lettering is 1/16" tall (sorry no metric ruler)
[SA]marked with 3 civil guard numbers.
The top of the tang near the safety has the number 6 stamped on it and the Westinghouse "E"
Straight logo, letters about 1/16th inch tall, s/n 641523, SA in box.
2MM Straight Logo
Curved Logo Lots of cyr. PK proofs and "arrowed letters" on the stock
Looks unissued, No import, No SA. Never left the US.
NEW small curved New England # 436
straight lettering 1915 serial no.1116742 stamped over ground off imperial crest is a circle with arrow coming off it.O->
Mine has the straight logo in the smaller font, SA and D marked, faint crest and serial No. 598355. Nice Finn stock.
Ted, I was looking again at #205874. Is it possible that it might have been renumbered elsewhere?
It's just that the s/n on #205874 looks a bit offset to the left (to make room for the 'F'??) and seems much deeper struck than the surviving N.E.W. logo etc. What do you think, is it possible?
Is the s/n in the same font as on your other NEWs?
Admittedly I'm clutching at straws a bit here. I thought I was rather cleverly narrowing down the transition boundary. In the lab we'd call that an anomalous data point and hope no-one noticed!
2mm strait logo
1 eagle x2
3 eagle x4
1 eagle y6
2 eagle x? cant read #
1 flame bomb
all on barrel
1 flame bomb on rcever and 2 on bolt handle w/ mathing s/n.
Al, sorry about the slow reply. I had my NEWs out this weekend and I don't think that 205874 has been scrubbed or renumbered. I need to get a better picture of it but just haven't had a chance.
Here's a thread I started in the Collector's Forum on variations in straight logos. I think there's a lot more to this than we realized.
Good thread. I think you're right. This is more complicated than it first appears.
Can you move the thread here to the Survey forum? Perhaps replace this one with it?
Al, I can't move anything from the Collector's Forum, only out of the Survey Forum. Brent or Vic could move it but I don't know if we would want to replace this one and lose the information here.
What do you think about just gathering all the information and pictures so far and posting them in a new thread? You could do that yourself and wouldn't even need to upload the pictures again as you could just copy the code from each post through the "edit" function. That would be an opportunity to organize it somewhat and clean it up. Just don't forget to credit the owners for each one. After that was done then I could delete this thread.
Those four in the other thread and the one curved I posted towards the bottom of it are all of mine with the exception of #205874. I need to get a better picture of it although the eagle and part of the wording is pretty badly scrubbed so it might not help much in the whole scheme of things.