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Thread: Gew98 Research

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    Default Gew98 Research

    To all fans of the "Gewehr98 Research" thread, I am doing my best to at least get the information here, photos may not move but at least we will have the information.
    T.P.


    graf
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    Posted - 01/03/2004 : 4:05:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Topic Send graf a Private Message Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Topic
    This an attempt to “develop” a database of observed Imperial German rifles, this would include Weimar reworked rifles, rifles that served in other countries (Spain & Turkey) & even sporterized rifles- the only thing that is required is the maker markings & serial number must be “original” to the rifle.
    Many times a rifle will have a altered receiver (SS service, some reworks have forced match numbers, sometimes foreign service will renumber the rifle) and these unfortunately can’t help.
    We are after serial numbers most especially- as the suffix is especially important I would like to “see” the suffix if there is any doubt to what it might be. (It is very easy to misread certain letters.)
    If privacy is desired you can email me [email protected](or TP), also if you have some reason to keep the full serial number private, the first two digits & suffix will do, images preferred (especially for new highs) but not required.

    We need manufacturer/date; serial number & right receiver proofs (top/right/left receiver)- if there are any unusual markings or proofs that would also be of interest (dual manufactured/reworked rifles, & star marked receivers) . Particularly trying to find a pattern to the right receiver proofs.

    Further, for the common wartime makers the higher the serial number the more likely it will be a new high number & these are of greater value for our study.
    Common wartime makers are: Mauser Oberndorf; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; DWM

    For all pre-war makers (Erfurt; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; Mauser Oberndorf; DWM) & for the “scarcer” wartime makers (JP Sauer; VC Schilling; Simson; CG Haenel; Oberspree Kornbusch/Oberpree- especially 1915 & 1918 dated rifles) all serial numbers are of value, because some of the makers are scarcely represented some years & a few we have only “book referenced existence”- no observed examples.

    Some of the more desired manufacturer/date combinations are: all Erfurt production (1909, 1912, 1913, & 1918 have no observed rifles at all); Danzig 1913; Amberg 1911, 1912; quite a few MO are lightly represented- as are some pre-war DWM.

    Thanks for any assistance-
    Edited by - graf on 11/13/2005 1:39:30 PM

    mman
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    Posted - 01/03/2004 : 9:02:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    Gew98, 1898 Oberndorf, ser# 3174

    Gew98, 1906 DWM. Ser# 2489a.

    Gew98, 1915 Oberndorf, ser# 908r

    Gew98, 1916/17 Spandau(Star) Ser#7763d

    Gew98, JP Sauer&Son 1916 Ser# 1105t

    Gew98 1917 Amberg, ser# 7509u

    Gew98, 1917/1920 JP Sauer&Son,ser# 9714 c

    Gew98, 1918/1920Spandau(Star)ser#5354-2

    Jack
    email at [email protected]

    A Mauser for me, a Mauser for you, all I want is a M1892. Spanish that is.
    REAL Mausers are made at Oberndorf
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    TP
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    Posted - 01/03/2004 : 9:10:52 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Working on the sticky thing.... (Maybe I should rephrase that..... )
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    Jess
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    Posted - 01/03/2004 : 9:44:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here's a few:

    1) DWM 1916 ser#2120x
    2) Erfurt 1905 ser#4533a (crown mkd)
    3) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co ser# 8354c
    4) Oberndorf 1917 ser#4005n
    5) Spandau 1916 ser#2701m (crown mkd)
    6) Danzig 1917 ser#4754z (1920 refurb, crown mkd, star rifle)
    7) Erfurt 1916 ser#426, (Star rifle, crwon mkd. Bahnschuss marked)
    8) Spandau 1920 rework, ser# 1076, (crown mkd., Bahnschuss marked)
    9) CG Haenel Suhl 1918 (Spanish rework, Spanish #'d)
    10) DWM 1917 orig ser# 5990 (Spanish 7mm rework)
    11) Spandau/DZ 1917/18, orig ser #1670 (Spanish rework into M43 config)
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    Jess
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    Posted - 01/03/2004 : 9:46:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Not sure how to edit my post, but forgot to mention: The Kornbusch is 1916.
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    TP
    Moderator Military Mauser Forum

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    Posted - 01/03/2004 : 10:35:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by Jess

    Not sure how to edit my post, but forgot to mention: The Kornbusch is 1916.



    Above your message there should be a bar with date and time. Beside that are several icons, including one with a piece of paper and a pencil. Click on that and it will allow you to edit the post.
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    junok2002
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    Posted - 01/03/2004 : 11:00:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    This an attempt to “develop” a database of observed Imperial German rifles, this would include Weimar reworked rifles, rifles that served in other countries (Spain & Turkey) & even sporterized rifles- the only thing that is required is the maker markings & serial number must be “original” to the rifle.
    Many times a rifle will have a scrubbed receiver (SS service, some reworks have forced match numbers, sometimes foreign service will renumber the rifle) and these unfortunately can’t help.
    We are after serial numbers- as the suffix is especially important I would like to “see” the suffix if there is any doubt to what it might be. (It is very easy to misread certain letters; e & r are a good example.)
    If anonymity is desired you can email me [email protected] (or TP?), if you have some reason to keep the serial number private, the first two digits & suffix will do, images preferred (especially for new highs) but not required.

    We need manufacturer, date & serial number- if there are any unusual markings or proofs that would also be of interest (dual manufactured/reworked rifles, & star marked receivers).

    Further, for the common wartime makers the higher the serial number the more likely it will be a new high number & these are of greater value for our study.
    Common wartime makers are: Mauser Oberndorf; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; DWM

    For all pre war makers (Erfurt; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; Mauser Oberndorf; DWM) & for the “scarcer” wartime makers (JP Sauer; VC Schilling; Simson; CG Haenel; Oberspree Kornbusch/Oberpree- especially 1915 & 1918 dated rifles) all serial numbers are of value, because some of the makers are scarcely represented some years & a few we have only “book referenced existence”- no observed examples.

    Some of the more desired manufacturer/date combinations are: all Erfurt production (1908, 1909, 1912, 1913, & 1918 have no observed rifles at all); Danzig 1912 & 1913; Amberg 1911-13; quite a few MO are lightly represented- as are some pre war DWM.

    Thanks for any assistance- For those who contribute information I will share our results.

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    junok2002
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    Posted - 01/03/2004 : 11:04:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Originally posted by graf

    This an attempt to “develop” a database of observed Imperial German rifles, this would include Weimar reworked rifles, rifles that served in other countries (Spain & Turkey) & even sporterized rifles- the only thing that is required is the maker markings & serial number must be “original” to the rifle.
    Many times a rifle will have a scrubbed receiver (SS service, some reworks have forced match numbers, sometimes foreign service will renumber the rifle) and these unfortunately can’t help.
    We are after serial numbers- as the suffix is especially important I would like to “see” the suffix if there is any doubt to what it might be. (It is very easy to misread certain letters; e & r are a good example.)
    If anonymity is desired you can email me [email protected] (or TP?), if you have some reason to keep the serial number private, the first two digits & suffix will do, images preferred (especially for new highs) but not required.

    We need manufacturer, date & serial number- if there are any unusual markings or proofs that would also be of interest (dual manufactured/reworked rifles, & star marked receivers).

    Further, for the common wartime makers the higher the serial number the more likely it will be a new high number & these are of greater value for our study.
    Common wartime makers are: Mauser Oberndorf; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; DWM

    For all pre war makers (Erfurt; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; Mauser Oberndorf; DWM) & for the “scarcer” wartime makers (JP Sauer; VC Schilling; Simson; CG Haenel; Oberspree Kornbusch/Oberpree- especially 1915 & 1918 dated rifles) all serial numbers are of value, because some of the makers are scarcely represented some years & a few we have only “book referenced existence”- no observed examples.

    Some of the more desired manufacturer/date combinations are: all Erfurt production (1908, 1909, 1912, 1913, & 1918 have no observed rifles at all); Danzig 1912 & 1913; Amberg 1911-13; quite a few MO are lightly represented- as are some pre war DWM.

    Thanks for any assistance- For those who contribute information I will share our results.

    I have an Erfurt KAR 98 sn 5032- my grandfather brought it back from WW1- receiver has been buffed and other marks are hard to see.
    Frank
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/04/2004 : 01:47:21 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Jack & Jess; Thanks very much- none made new highs but Jack's stern-gewehr was interesting to see, as no stern-gewehrs have been observed for Spandau in 1918 until now.
    A couple of the serial numbers were fairly close for a high, keep them coming!

    Thanks TP for nailing it to the top.

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    graf
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    Posted - 01/04/2004 : 01:56:26 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Junok2002;
    Although we are on the Gewehr98, the 98a is also welcome.
    We would need the date & any letters that may be under the serial number.
    Erfurt was a big producer & made the 98a every year from 1907-1918.

    Also thanks to the Mike & Scott who sent me details by email- much appreciated.

    quote:Originally posted by junok2002

    I have an Erfurt KAR 98 sn 5032- my grandfather brought it back from WW1- receiver has been buffed and other marks are hard to see.
    Frank

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    Chris
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    Posted - 01/04/2004 : 10:05:54 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi,

    Only one Gew98...

    Spandau 1911, 1379d. No unusual markings.

    Chris
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    fergus
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    Posted - 01/04/2004 : 12:46:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf....do you have any of the Gewehr 98's from the NRA's Firearms Museum in your database? I know they have at least one Oberspree Kornbusch (can't recall the date) among a number of others. Let me know if you don't have any data on those and I'll see what I can do. I live not far from the NRA Headquarters in Fairfax County, Virginia.
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    TP
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    Posted - 01/04/2004 : 4:58:38 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gew98:
    DWM - 1907 - q1391e
    Schilling 1916 - 3279m
    Simson - 1917 - 1249c

    Kar98a
    Danzig 1918 9719(no suffix)

    I believe that the pre-War DWM with the "q" prefix indicates a rebuild done in Germany as the number is the same font as used in the sufix and is very neatly stamped. Any thoughts from anyone?
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/04/2004 : 5:01:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Chris;
    This is a new high serial (current high is 7149 c) can you do images of it?
    Good going!


    quote:Originally posted by Chris

    Hi,

    Only one Gew98...

    Spandau 1911, 1379d. No unusual markings.

    Chris

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    graf
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    Posted - 01/04/2004 : 5:13:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Fergus;
    Not that I know of- many of the serials in the database come from undisclosed sources & most are from Mark Wieringa/KCN work on the subject.
    Perhaps 10% are from sources known by me.
    If not too much of a problem do get the information- especially the pre war & scarcer wartime makers like WOK.
    I have been to the NRA museum, but it has been several years ago (before this effort), while at the Springfield Armory I tried to get a few serials- but the displays were done in a way to make it impossible & the upstairs you couldn’t hold or examine any particular rifle.

    That place could make me a criminal!


    quote:Originally posted by fergus

    Graf....do you have any of the Gewehr 98's from the NRA's Firearms Museum in your database? I know they have at least one Oberspree Kornbusch (can't recall the date) among a number of others. Let me know if you don't have any data on those and I'll see what I can do. I live not far from the NRA Headquarters in Fairfax County, Virginia.

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    gew88guy
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    Posted - 01/04/2004 : 5:41:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have a 1918 Oberndorf Gew98, serial #3998 with what I'm 98% sure is a "d" suffix.

    Proofs are two very distinct crown/"E" (not fraktur "E"s) and a fraktur "G" or "C" that looks almost scrubbed.

    Turk crescent marked on the receiver.

    Beech stock is marked with a "B" cartouche which I've been told was used to denote the use of an ersatz wood that the Germans would have hoped to replace when a more durable wood once again became available.

    If you look closely at the pic you can see that the stock has shrank and reveals about 3cm more of triggerguard and receiver than it should.

    Also, I don't believe this stock ever had Imperial eagle cartouches as the "B" cartouche is quite clear and appears to be unsanded.


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    Imperial German Regimental Markings

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    graf
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    Posted - 01/04/2004 : 5:44:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    TP; I have never seen such prefix used, but Bill is the guy who could tell you... I did a quick search through my files & found nothing about a use of prefix during a rebuild.

    It will be interesting to hear Bill's view on the subject.

    quote:Originally posted by TP

    Gew98:
    DWM - 1907 - q1391e
    Schilling 1916 - 3279m
    Simson - 1917 - 1249c

    Kar98a
    Danzig 1918 9719(no suffix)

    I believe that the pre-War DWM with the "q" prefix indicates a rebuild done in Germany as the number is the same font as used in the sufix and is very neatly stamped. Any thoughts from anyone?

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    graf
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    Posted - 01/04/2004 : 5:59:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks on the serial- we have 1918 MO well into the P range (1831 P).

    B represents beech, as you mention- but I wouldn’t say it means ersatz wood; walnut was the preferred wood & can be seen throughout the wartime production.
    Beech largely replaced walnut by 1916, though maple is also used occasionally.

    quote:Originally posted by gew88guy

    I have a 1918 Oberndorf Gew98, serial #3998 with what I'm 98% sure is a "d" suffix.

    Proofs are two very distinct crown/"E" (not fraktur "E"s) and a fraktur "G" or "C" that looks almost scrubbed.

    Turk crescent marked on the receiver.

    Beech stock is marked with a "B" cartouche which I've been told was used to denote the use of an ersatz wood that the Germans would have hoped to replace when a more durable wood once again became available.

    If you look closely at the pic you can see that the stock has shrank and reveals about 3cm more of triggerguard and receiver than it should.

    Also, I don't believe this stock ever had Imperial eagle cartouches as the "B" cartouche is quite clear and appears to be unsanded.


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    Edited by - graf on 01/04/2004 5:59:38 PM
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    airgun_1
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    Posted - 01/04/2004 : 9:19:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Erfurt Kar 98a 1915 9585Y
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    kroh
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    Posted - 01/05/2004 : 03:04:58 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit kroh's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here are some Gewher 98's that have passed through our hands:

    Amberg - 1916 - 307u
    Danzig - 1917/1920 - 8079LL
    DWM - 1917 - 5599s
    Mauser - 1918 - 5437c
    Danzig - 1914 - 4565s
    Mauser - 1918 - 3234e
    Danzig - 1917/1920 - 8461k
    Mauser - 1918 - 4455b
    DWM - 1908 - 3619
    Sauer & sohn - 1916 - 3602
    Amberg - 1918/1920 - 4156
    Spandau - 1916 - 5713u
    Spandau - 1911 - 832b
    Simson & Co - 1916 - 6589b

    Following rifles are Russian Captured 98k's made from Gewehr 98's:

    Simson & Co - 1917 - 6801e (reconfigured to 98k)
    DWM - 1918 - 6165 (reconfigured to 98k)
    DWM - 1915 - 3640 (Radom logo on receiver, reconfig to 98k)
    Spandau - 1909 - 3470 (reconfigured to 98k with SSZZA4 stamp)
    Spandau - 1915 - 2110 (reconfig to 98k)
    DWM - 1915 - 6314 (reconfig to 98k)
    Spandau - 1913/1920 - 3036 (reconfigured to 98k specs)
    DWM - 1907 - 9712 (reconfigured to 98k specs)
    Amberg - 1916 - 54g (reconfigured to 98k specs)
    DWM - 1916 - 4778c w/ Radom logo on receiver (reconfig 98k)
    Amberg - 1916 - 2762m (reconfig to 98k, bnz atop chamber)
    Mauser = 1905 - 9806b (reconfig to 98k)
    Danzig - 1917/1920 - 7379ii (reconfig to 98k)
    Spandau - 1905/1920 - 5460 (reconfig to 98k)
    Spandau - 1907/1920 - 2243f (reconfig to 98k)
    Schilling - 1918 - 9400c (reconfig to 98k)
    Mauser - 1916/1920 - 5668m (reconfig to 98k)
    Danzig - 1917 - 4817f (reconfig to 98k)
    Dennis Kroh, owner

    use this link: http://64.82.96.51


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    big brother
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    Posted - 01/05/2004 : 09:49:30 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gewehr 98 Mauser Oberndorf 1918, serial number 1281c. Standard imperial proof marks (3) on right side of receiver, German military acceptance eagle mark on left side of receiver. Turk crescent on top of receiver. Just wonder if this rifle was sent to the Turk troops during WW1 for assistance by the Germans or acquired by Turkey after 1918.
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    Tuckahoe
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    Posted - 01/05/2004 : 6:32:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    GEW 98 Spandau 1916 serial# 8551 over a 3, star marked receiver

    Kar98A Erfurt 1917/1920 serial# 561aa
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/05/2004 : 6:42:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Just a note to all you imperialphiles like myself - I do have a wad of imperial parts on hand to include rods.If anyone has mismatched small parts please drop me the last two digit serialed parts you seek and what you have. If they have not been refinished by a bubba or weimar reworked I may very well have the proper original parts to help swap you out to make your gew/kar98a match a tad more.
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/05/2004 : 6:44:18 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Very helpful post- picked up two highs here!
    1907 Spandau went from 2350 c to 2243 f (pretty big jump for a pre war rifle.)
    1914 Danzig went from 8782 g to 4565 s




    quote:Originally posted by kroh

    Here are some Gewher 98's that have passed through our hands:

    Amberg - 1916 - 307u
    Danzig - 1917/1920 - 8079LL
    DWM - 1917 - 5599s
    Mauser - 1918 - 5437c
    Danzig - 1914 - 4565s
    Mauser - 1918 - 3234e
    Danzig - 1917/1920 - 8461k
    Mauser - 1918 - 4455b
    DWM - 1908 - 3619
    Sauer & sohn - 1916 - 3602
    Amberg - 1918/1920 - 4156
    Spandau - 1916 - 5713u
    Spandau - 1911 - 832b
    Simson & Co - 1916 - 6589b

    Following rifles are Russian Captured 98k's made from Gewehr 98's:

    Simson & Co - 1917 - 6801e (reconfigured to 98k)
    DWM - 1918 - 6165 (reconfigured to 98k)
    DWM - 1915 - 3640 (Radom logo on receiver, reconfig to 98k)
    Spandau - 1909 - 3470 (reconfigured to 98k with SSZZA4 stamp)
    Spandau - 1915 - 2110 (reconfig to 98k)
    DWM - 1915 - 6314 (reconfig to 98k)
    Spandau - 1913/1920 - 3036 (reconfigured to 98k specs)
    DWM - 1907 - 9712 (reconfigured to 98k specs)
    Amberg - 1916 - 54g (reconfigured to 98k specs)
    DWM - 1916 - 4778c w/ Radom logo on receiver (reconfig 98k)
    Amberg - 1916 - 2762m (reconfig to 98k, bnz atop chamber)
    Mauser = 1905 - 9806b (reconfig to 98k)
    Danzig - 1917/1920 - 7379ii (reconfig to 98k)
    Spandau - 1905/1920 - 5460 (reconfig to 98k)
    Spandau - 1907/1920 - 2243f (reconfig to 98k)
    Schilling - 1918 - 9400c (reconfig to 98k)
    Mauser - 1916/1920 - 5668m (reconfig to 98k)
    Danzig - 1917 - 4817f (reconfig to 98k)

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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/05/2004 : 6:45:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Just a note to all you imperialphiles like myself - I do have a wad of imperial parts on hand to include rods.If anyone has mismatched small parts please drop me the last two digit serialed parts you seek and what you have. If they have not been refinished by a bubba or weimar reworked I may very well have the proper original parts to help swap you out to make your gew/kar98a match a tad more.
    Graf ; you noted the fellows 18 dated spandau was a sterne gewehr - his data shows a 16 sterne gewehr and his 18 is a depot salvage/rework as noted by the DZ. From what I recall the DZ is ajin the H and the Zn ( short abbreviations for specific depots ). Good old clay D is up on the depot system to a good extent as alot of it carried over intact into the weimar and nazi eras.
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/05/2004 : 6:53:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I suspect the MO rifles went during the war- many of the others I am not so sure about...

    The reason I "think" the MO Gewehr98's went during the war is that it is a rare thing to see an "un-turked" 1917 or 1918 MO, which leads me to believe they must of had some special arrangement during the war (Germany certainly didn't sit on them & I can think of no other way so many late date MO’s ended up in Turkey).
    I do not have much knowledge of Turkish relations with Mauser, but I do recall that Mauser had significant dealings with Turkey early on.

    quote:Originally posted by big brother

    Gewehr 98 Mauser Oberndorf 1918, serial number 1281c. Standard imperial proof marks (3) on right side of receiver, German military acceptance eagle mark on left side of receiver. Turk crescent on top of receiver. Just wonder if this rifle was sent to the Turk troops during WW1 for assistance by the Germans or acquired by Turkey after 1918.

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    graf
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    Posted - 01/05/2004 : 7:00:16 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    In 1916 Spandau pumped out some stern gewehrs! - into the “5” suffix- considering how many stern gewehrs were made (most if not all Erfurt wartime production, piles by Spandau & significant numbers by a couple others including WOK) I would expect to see more for sale!
    Bill & Peter probably have seen quite a few, but I have seen only a handful or so...


    quote:Originally posted by Tuckahoe

    GEW 98 Spandau 1916 serial# 8551 over a 3, star marked receiver

    Kar98A Erfurt 1917/1920 serial# 561aa

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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/05/2004 : 8:33:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Paul ; that is a conclusion reached a good time ago regarding Obenrdorf's production of gew98's from 1916 through 1918 , with seemingly most of 1918 oberndorf production winding up in turkey's hands either before the war ended or immeadiately after.
    It is rather rare to see an 18 dated oberndorf that is not turked with. I have only seen two and both were weimar reworks I had. You almost never see government arsenal turked with gewehrs.My bet is oberndorf had a good relationship with turkey and convinced the german gov't it alone could supply turkey's rifle needs - and likely did. I am also of the mindset that the kar98a's the turks wound up with were in bulk post WW1 sales.I say this as I have yet to see a pic(s) of turk troops in the great war with kar98a's , and being the kar98a was a government arsenal product and much in demand on the western fornt it's likely they were not authorized to be disposed of to turkey while the war was on.
    I am also not aware of the turks being supplied P08 pistols either , and to read of the period pistols were seemingly always in short supply for german military needs.







    quote:Originally posted by graf

    I suspect the MO rifles went during the war- many of the others I am not so sure about...

    The reason I "think" the MO Gewehr98's went during the war is that it is a rare thing to see an "un-turked" 1917 or 1918 MO, which leads me to believe they must of had some special arrangement during the war (Germany certainly didn't sit on them & I can think of no other way so many late date MO’s ended up in Turkey).
    I do not have much knowledge of Turkish relations with Mauser, but I do recall that Mauser had significant dealings with Turkey early on.

    quote:Originally posted by big brother

    Gewehr 98 Mauser Oberndorf 1918, serial number 1281c. Standard imperial proof marks (3) on right side of receiver, German military acceptance eagle mark on left side of receiver. Turk crescent on top of receiver. Just wonder if this rifle was sent to the Turk troops during WW1 for assistance by the Germans or acquired by Turkey after 1918.


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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/05/2004 : 8:41:12 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    Paul ; I have probably eyeballed near a dozen sterne gewehrs - most being spandau and a good many of the balance erfurt.
    I have only had a chance at two matching sterne gewehrs - one terribly sanded and over indulged metal - but it had the depot feature of a lined out and numbered to match bolt - yuk no likey depot refurb stuffski so I passed. Then I was abale to swap a bolt mismatch 16 simson to a buddy for a matching 16 spandau sterne gewehr - definately a rifle rode real hard and put up sodden with mud for insurance , but matching nonetheless.
    And for the couple erfurt 1916's I have handled and the one I have that are not sterne gewehr marked they all had major "gaffs" that should have gotten them the sterne gewehr marking , but they did get an awfull load of RC proofs !!.




    quote:Originally posted by graf

    In 1916 Spandau pumped out some stern gewehrs! - into the “5” suffix- considering how many stern gewehrs were made (most if not all Erfurt wartime production, piles by Spandau & significant numbers by a couple others including WOK) I would expect to see more for sale!
    Bill & Peter probably have seen quite a few, but I have seen only a handful or so...


    quote:Originally posted by Tuckahoe

    GEW 98 Spandau 1916 serial# 8551 over a 3, star marked receiver

    Kar98A Erfurt 1917/1920 serial# 561aa


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    creosote
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    Posted - 01/05/2004 : 11:38:08 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Mine is
    Oberndorf 1917 #2568, lower case 't' under the serial on barrel and receiver.
    NRA Life Member
    Edited by - creosote on 01/05/2004 11:44:23 PM
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    jwh2
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    Posted - 01/06/2004 : 02:35:27 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Paul,

    It came today.

    GEW 98
    "Stern" star
    1920
    Crown
    Spandau
    1907
    Serial number 750 over 1

    Barrel and rear sight have 750 over 1 also.

    I have all the metal soaking in Kroil over night and will give it a bath tomorrow and e-mail some images to you.

    Later.

    Joe
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    jebber
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    Posted - 01/06/2004 : 12:35:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    GEW 98 DWM 1916 - 2026 (no suffix)

    GEW 98 Oberndorf 1917 771 w (?) - see pic



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    Edited by - jebber on 01/06/2004 12:38:37 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/06/2004 : 9:47:37 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    A perfect example of the problem with deciphering serial numbers...

    After numerous attempts to break this one down (there is another variation of this letter- imaged)-

    I also believe this to be “w” as n, m, u, v, & r are all different & I could not think of another possibility...

    Download Attachment:
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    quote:Originally posted by jebber

    GEW 98 DWM 1916 - 2026 (no suffix)

    GEW 98 Oberndorf 1917 771 w (?) - see pic



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    gwsiii
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    Posted - 01/06/2004 : 10:09:29 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit gwsiii's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    It's not Japanese, but its got character just the same, attracted me for similar reasons.

    DWM 1917 8240a - I wouldn't know an unusual mark on a German Rifle, unless it was Japanese. Its only got 1 set of 'odd' marks and I don't think they are German or Japanese...
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    Looks to be,
    ML DON MEUSE
    NOV-21-17, maybe 18
    Hope that helps. Trey
    If I knew as much as 'the olde fat man' had forgotten, I'd be dangerous....Ground guns need love too!
    I didn't pay too much for that old Arisaka, I just bought it too soon!
    Fill out a Type 99 Datasheet and send it to me sometime.
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    mman
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    Posted - 01/07/2004 : 07:30:25 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The suffix is relative, not absolute. They started with none, a, b, c......thru z, and then aa, bb, cc.....until they got to Jan. 1st of the next year when they started over.

    If you could establish the high end and production was constant, Maybe you could infer a month of production?

    Jack
    email at [email protected]

    A Mauser for me, a Mauser for you, all I want is a M1892. Spanish that is.
    REAL Mausers are made at Oberndorf
    Edited by - mman on 01/09/2004 09:48:04 AM
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    gew88guy
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    Posted - 01/07/2004 : 6:48:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Jack, I'm only curious and thank you .
    ~ An honest tale speeds best,
    being plainly told. ~

    Who is this man and why is he trying to save my country?

    liberalism is a mental disorder

    Imperial German Regimental Markings

    Das Heereswaffenampt

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    TP
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    Posted - 01/08/2004 : 12:33:22 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Forgot 3. Two are "on loan" to others (reenactors) and I will try to get the numbers at some point. The one I have in hand:
    Gew98 - Kar98b
    Erfurt 1916
    7587b
    Came out of Romania in the imports a number of years ago. It is a mess and a total mismatch of parts in a Kar98b stock. Restored it will be a good representative 98b.
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    peterkuck
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    Posted - 01/09/2004 : 6:53:29 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit peterkuck's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hope this helps Graf
    regards
    peter


    1907
    spandau 2508c
    danzig 6991
    mauser 5298e

    1914
    danzig 9869a

    1915
    danzig 1887
    dwm 1448z
    schilling 6190 l

    1916
    Amberg 5077e
    Amberg 3507r
    Amberg 1065v
    dwm 6713x
    erfurt 2098e
    mauser 5372ee
    mauser 4530y
    o. kornbusch 4241c
    schilling 7074e
    spandau 7182 * (stern)
    spandau 6398n
    spandau 7037dd
    spandau 4044hh

    1917
    danzig 8295y
    dwm 1636d
    dwm 5676r
    simson 5107a
    spandau (H) 2370

    **** spandau 17/18 s/n 4351f ****

    1918
    amberg 2712
    spandau (H) 37 weimar remake

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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/09/2004 : 7:42:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Pete ; I just traded an matched to itself sterne gewehr bolt with the last two digits being # 82.
    Oh well as I recall you had an armorer's bolt that came in it.
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/09/2004 : 7:47:13 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks TP!

    Peter you have a magnificent collection! Thanks for all your help!
    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    jebber
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    Posted - 01/13/2004 : 08:25:29 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Added another:

    GEW 98 Oberndorf 1917 611 h
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    Clay
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    Posted - 01/13/2004 : 08:57:41 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    This is what I have so far. I probably have a few more but I will have to dig for them.

    Mauser 1902/1920 # 6021
    Erfurt 1903 # 2462 F
    Amberg 1903 # 1504 1920 in stock Sch/PL.3.41 Schutzplatz Juterburg (Weimar era) unit marked.

    Amberg 1906 # 1101 s
    DWM 1906 # 3335 c 136 R.7.165
    DWM 1906 # 786 C
    Erfurt 1906 # 4258 b

    DWM 1907 # 6859 d Trench cover
    Spandau 1907 # 7782 a FB Polish rework

    Spandau 1913/1920 # 263 EWB

    Mauser 1914 # 9410 a

    Amberg 1915 # 6370 q
    Amberg 1915 # 3112 M
    DWM 1915 # 3153 e

    Sauer 1916 # 4801 n
    Spandau 1916 # K 8137 Polish rework with the "K" added
    DWM 1916 # 548 ii
    Spandau 1916 # 5674 a
    Danzig 1916 # 1763 aa
    DWM 1916/1920 # 3989 cc
    Mauser 1916 # 2079 M
    Spandau 1916 # 4349 u
    Amberg 1916 # 5077 e
    Simson 1916 # 4981 C
    Amberg 1916 # 8897 d
    Mauser 1916/1920# 3699 aa P.H.18.94 Polizei Hannover
    Schilling 1916 # 5470 a N.8908 Nazi navy
    Simson 1916/26 Zn # 1805

    Spandau 1917/26 Zn # 2459
    Danzig 1917/1920 # 992 h
    Sauer 1917/1920 # 6424 e
    Danzig 1917 # 8295 y
    Amberg 1917/1920 # 9900 i
    Spandau 1917 FB # K 1576 Polish rework
    Danzig 1917 # 7813 y Semi Turret sniper

    DWM 1918 # 2247 a BS
    Mauser 1918 # 4682 b
    Danzig 1918 # 5302 d
    Mauser 1918 # 8042 l
    Mauser 1918 # 1480 i

    Clay
    Edited by - Clay on 01/13/2004 9:17:57 PM
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/13/2004 : 6:30:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Clay ; what happened with the bolt mismatch 1906 erfurt you got off me a couple years back ?.
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/13/2004 : 7:35:39 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    "DWM 1906 # 3335 s 136 IR marked" is a new high & a big jump!

    All these serial numbers I have been receiving & so few making an update necessary is encouraging...

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    Clay
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    Posted - 01/13/2004 : 9:21:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    See corrections above...I typed these... while in a hurry... before work. I did not have my coffee yet!

    Additional numbers

    Gews converted to 98k
    1) SS rework with scrubbed receiver SS 2 and double death head markings E/N commercial proofed # 9710 e
    2) CGH 1917 # 3236

    Clay
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/13/2004 : 10:38:27 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Clay ; I remember it had mismatch bands yet a matching handgurad ( 1906 erfurt ) , I have a # 58 rear band to make it more complete if you have a good imperial one to swap it out with. Likely have hit's on the others if you have had time to itemize any mismatch bit on them that they may have. Bill.
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    befus
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    Posted - 01/14/2004 : 8:28:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Mauser Oberndorf
    1915
    K8370
    script "e"

    FB Radom marked on receiver, and circle z found on barrel shank for possible SCW use.
    befus
    RA15878210
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    Destroyer
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    Posted - 01/15/2004 : 10:32:03 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    German Gewehr 98,all-matching,Amberg 1918, s/n 1395c
    Don't get mad, get even.
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/17/2004 : 1:39:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Is your 1918 Amberg straight up Imperial or does it have any post war evidence? (1920 permission stamp, EWB, Weimar refurb)
    I have seen VERY few 1918-dated Gewehr98's that are straight up Imperial & all matching.
    1918 Amberg’s do seem to be the most commonly encountered of all the 1918 dated rifles (other than MO which are almost always Turked) but even still most are sporterized or Weimar reworked...



    quote:Originally posted by Destroyer

    German Gewehr 98,all-matching,Amberg 1918, s/n 1395c

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    http://gewehr98.com/
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    Destroyer
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    Posted - 01/17/2004 : 4:36:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I am not that familiar with these as I only own the one. Mine has no 1920 engraving on the receiver. The receiver and bolt are a light plumb color like it was blued in the far past. Every bolt piece, band, sight, screw and little part is matching numbered. No other post war markings that I can tell on receiver. The two piece stock has some cartouches, no EWB. Original sling as far as I can tell looking at other examples on this forum. How can I determine if this is a postwar rework? I'll try to post some pics later if it would help.
    D.
    Don't get mad, get even.
    Edited by - Destroyer on 01/18/2004 11:03:31 AM
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    imacbo
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    Posted - 01/17/2004 : 8:49:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Just got a Gew 98. It is a waffenfabrik mauser a-g. oberndorf a/n. 1916 #2650. It has noco on left side. on right side has cal 8mm turkey several small seal marks but cant make them out. also 703 and a little y by the # on left side
    Edited by - imacbo on 01/17/2004 8:56:42 PM

    graf
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    Posted - 01/18/2004 : 4:42:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Weimar used rifles do not require the 1920 marking… many don’t have the permission stamp.
    If the receiver & bolt are blued then it is not in its Imperial trim & that hurts it’s value some- though things are changing with valuation regarding the Weimar reworks, not long ago if the Weimar reworks didn’t have unit marks or a police background (PwB, etc…) then they were hit significantly by comparison to straight up Imperial rifles- today that isn’t so true!
    Nice matching Weimar refub’d Gewehr98’s & 98a rifles do quite well value wise. The key is condition & whether the rifle is all legit matching with no foreign military use evidence.
    If your rifle is all matching (force matching & scrub/re-numbering is common & quite proper with Weimar reworks) then it is still a valuable rifle, as a great many went to Spain & elsewhere were they got m/m or worse.
    Post some images or start a thread on it- interesting Gewehr98’s are always nice to see & you may learn something about it in the process!

    quote:Originally posted by Destroyer

    I am not that familiar with these as I only own the one. Mine has no 1920 engraving on the receiver. The receiver and bolt are a light plumb color like it was blued in the far past. Every bolt piece, band, sight, screw and little part is matching numbered. No other post war markings that I can tell on receiver. The two piece stock has some cartouches, no EWB. Original sling as far as I can tell looking at other examples on this forum. How can I determine if this is a postwar rework? I'll try to post some pics later if it would help.
    D.


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    Petereye05
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    Posted - 01/19/2004 : 12:55:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gew98 - Mauser - 1917 - SN 446v

    Although this rifle seems to be made from the parts of at least two rifles the odd thing about it is although it has the bolt stripping washer in the stock it doesn't have the finger grooves in the forestock. It should have by this date, should it not ?? Maybe it was returned to an arsenal, maybe for repair ??, and was updated to the new specs.

    Kar98AZ - Erfurt - 1917 / 1920 - SN 7183a.

    The top flat of the butt plate is stamped " R.F.V. 2276 " - that's the Reichs Finance Ministry is it not ?? This carbine has all matching numbers.
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/19/2004 : 1:47:18 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Pete ; yes RFV is the finance ministry. I had an ortgies 32 auto pistol marked RFV with a number ( on the slide ), and have seen some other german 32 pistols so marked.
    The depot system had earlier stocks on hand and had to use these up first, as well alot of the transitional fetaure stocks seemed to have been piped into the depot system ( that is stocks that have a mix of the improvements that by the first half of 1917 all gew98's had ).So any rifle or kar98a that was rebuilt could have a myriad of different detailed stocks.
    Edited by - The Great Billdildoe on 01/19/2004 1:49:25 PM
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    madboy357
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    Posted - 01/19/2004 : 2:33:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hey Paul, here is the data on my pair of Gew98M's, and my 98a. Hope this does some good for your data base. I will collect the data of a few rifles I know of locally and put them up as well.

    #1 1917 Spandau, Weimar eagle overstamped on the Imperial eagle, serial 6088 no suffix. Matching beech stock, a few other matching parts. Has been updated to 98M with flat 98k type rear sight, also has a bent bolt recess, and the front sight base is cut for a hood. Lots of K155, S/42G, and SU4 proofed parts. Reciever is marked with the superimposed S/H on the bottom. RH side of reciever is marked 3 7/crown/2, all SxS, no frakturs. This serial may not be WW1, the fonts seem a bit off. I'll shoot you a pic if you like.

    #2 1918 Amberg Gew98M, flat rear sight, early Weimar proofed barrel. 9528, can't make out a suffix or the Amberg lion due to pitting. This one is now a wall hanger, as it has a large crack right through at the leading edge of the ring.

    #3 1914 Erfurt Kar98a, depot level rebuild with many overstamped matching numbers. Matching but the bolt and rear sight spring, serial 1897 b. This is a WW1 bringback with a duffel cut repaired hands on by TheGreatBilldildoe. Thanks Bill! Anybody got a rear sight spring #97? This is my personal favorite of all my Mausers.

    I'll get back to you with more Paul! Ken

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    airgun_1
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    Posted - 01/19/2004 : 6:03:38 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Amberg Gew 98, 1918, sn 979 Kar 98k rework
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    dg13
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    Posted - 01/19/2004 : 7:23:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi All,
    1917 DWM 731xk original all matching
    1916 Amberg 866xm original all matching
    1916 Danzig 308xc 95% matching refurbished Unit? KR 155C
    1915 Waffenfabrik 849xn original all matching
    Mauser A-G
    Oberndorf A/N
    dg13
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    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/19/2004 : 8:16:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Pete;
    I have seen several 1917 rifles that don't sport the 1916 features- 98a rifles more so, though obviously my limited observations do not make a historical trend of it...
    In my experience the grips are more commonly encountered early on, which would make sense.

    Thanks Ken, Mike & dg for the serials!




    quote:Originally posted by Petereye05

    Gew98 - Mauser - 1917 - SN 446v

    Although this rifle seems to be made from the parts of at least two rifles the odd thing about it is although it has the bolt stripping washer in the stock it doesn't have the finger grooves in the forestock. It should have by this date, should it not ?? Maybe it was returned to an arsenal, maybe for repair ??, and was updated to the new specs.

    Kar98AZ - Erfurt - 1917 / 1920 - SN 7183a.

    The top flat of the butt plate is stamped " R.F.V. 2276 " - that's the Reichs Finance Ministry is it not ?? This carbine has all matching numbers.

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    http://gewehr98.com/
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    jwh2
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    Posted - 01/20/2004 : 12:12:00 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Paul,

    Last week I had hands on a K98a 1917 Erfurt that was all matching including the stock and handguard. The stock on this rifle didn't have takedown disc or the finger grooves. It appears that you observation about the stocks is right. Post 1915 Kar98a's, at least, do have earlier stocks.

    You are already aware of the Kar98a 1917 Erfurt m/m that I have which also has a early stock. But since it is mismatched it could have been installed at any time and proves nothing.

    Joe
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    feldmutze
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    Posted - 01/20/2004 : 7:19:32 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here's a few:

    1899 Erfurt 7323
    1901 Danzig 604g
    1901 Erfurt 2c
    1903 Amberg 7865a
    1906 Danzig 520"a" (bolt is re-numbered as 520a, receiver serial# suffix is difficult to discern)
    1915 Danzig 5099k
    1916 Simson 3855l
    1916 Erfurt 544f
    1916 Spandau 742ee
    1917 DWM 9807c

    Mike
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    imacbo
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    Posted - 01/20/2004 : 7:39:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    photos of my gew 98 can anyone help with value and codes http://www.villagephotos.com/image.a...02&sessionkey=
    http://www.villagephotos.com/image.a...67&sessionkey=
    http://www.villagephotos.com/image.a...03&sessionkey=
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/20/2004 : 9:17:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks Joe!

    Mike that 1901 Erfurt 2c is still the coolest Gewehr98 I have seen!



    quote:Originally posted by feldmutze

    Here's a few:

    1899 Erfurt 7323
    1901 Danzig 604g
    1901 Erfurt 2c
    1903 Amberg 7865a
    1906 Danzig 520"a" (bolt is re-numbered as 520a, receiver serial# suffix is difficult to discern)
    1915 Danzig 5099k
    1916 Simson 3855l
    1916 Erfurt 544f
    1916 Spandau 742ee
    1917 DWM 9807c

    Mike

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/20/2004 : 9:29:09 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Can't get them to load- "Use from this location denied" tried several methods...


    quote:Originally posted by imacbo

    photos of my gew 98 can anyone help with value and codes http://www.villagephotos.com/image.a...02&sessionkey=
    http://www.villagephotos.com/image.a...67&sessionkey=
    http://www.villagephotos.com/image.a...03&sessionkey=

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    dg13
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    Posted - 01/20/2004 : 10:24:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi All
    My Kar 98A's:
    1)Amborg 1909 m/m bolt early stock-680x
    2)Erfert 1917 matching late stock--5xv
    dg13
    "One Nation UNDER GOD"
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
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    imacbo
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    Posted - 01/21/2004 : 06:17:22 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    ok let me try this. So does anyone know what these codes might be. and what value maybe?
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/21/2004 : 11:42:44 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply



    Nuttin' there buddy.




    ok let me try this. So does anyone know what these codes might be. and what value maybe?
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/21/2004 : 6:29:09 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The 3 proofs on the right receiver are proofs that represent stages of assembly & passing inspection.
    Bill probably has a better break down description but without me "looking it up" that should do?

    A 1916 MO is pretty common & we don't have enough information to make a valuation judgment (whether matching, metal condition or even if it is a complete rifle).

    Is it a Turk used Gewehr98? Kind of looks it... provide more information or images & I will give my opinion.


    quote:Originally posted by imacbo

    photos of my gew 98 can anyone help with value and codes http://www.villagephotos.com/image.a...02&sessionkey=
    http://www.villagephotos.com/image.a...67&sessionkey=
    http://www.villagephotos.com/image.a...03&sessionkey=

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    Betonfahrer
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    Posted - 01/23/2004 : 01:02:51 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gew.98 Danzig 1902,#160k has rear sight base down to 200m.
    Gew.98 Danzig 1917#7343ff with 98k rear sight marked s/42
    Gew.98 Simpson&co. 1916#5533c
    Gew.98 VC Shilling 1916,#6194o
    Kar.98a Danzig 1918 #9371a stamped 1920
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/23/2004 : 06:20:52 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks!

    The 1902 Danzig sounds very interesting with the 200m sight!
    Jack & Bill (among others) have been seeking information on these original sights, could you do images of the rifle, especially the 200m sight?


    quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer

    Gew.98 Danzig 1902,#160k has rear sight base down to 200m.
    Gew.98 Danzig 1917#7343ff with 98k rear sight marked s/42
    Gew.98 Simpson&co. 1916#5533c
    Gew.98 VC Shilling 1916,#6194o
    Kar.98a Danzig 1918 #9371a stamped 1920

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    Petereye05
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    Posted - 01/23/2004 : 12:50:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Paul,

    Still only one Haenel - I said they were too busy making bayonets. According to the list, at this stage, they only made ONE Gew98 - probably a " Presentation Piece "
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/23/2004 : 4:56:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Haenel did make a pile of bayo's!

    I also would expect to see more Haenel made or reworked rifles, as they are fairly consistently high on the "known" production when compared to the other Suhl makers!


    quote:Originally posted by Petereye05

    Paul,

    Still only one Haenel - I said they were too busy making bayonets. According to the list, at this stage, they only made ONE Gew98 - probably a " Presentation Piece "

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    imacbo
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    Posted - 01/24/2004 : 08:22:38 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    it's uncut in about 70% overall shape. The numbers don't match. But over all good shape. shoots very good.
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    Betonfahrer
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    Posted - 01/24/2004 : 09:06:17 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    Thanks!

    The 1902 Danzig sounds very interesting with the 200m sight!
    Jack & Bill (among others) have been seeking information on these original sights, could you do images of the rifle, especially the 200m sight?


    quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer

    Gew.98 Danzig 1902,#160k has rear sight base down to 200m.
    Gew.98 Danzig 1917#7343ff with 98k rear sight marked s/42
    Gew.98 Simpson&co. 1916#5533c
    Gew.98 VC Shilling 1916,#6194o
    Kar.98a Danzig 1918 #9371a stamped 1920


    While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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    Betonfahrer
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    Posted - 01/24/2004 : 09:11:09 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graff, I will try to ger pics and post them. Still a greenhorn to all this- the Danzig 02 has the sight leaf for the spitzer cartrige, the base was not changed. Do you want pics even though it isnt a entire "j" rear sight assy?
    While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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    Betonfahrer
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    Posted - 01/24/2004 : 09:18:27 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    More Gew98 sn's.
    Amberg 1915 3897l
    CG Hanel 1916 1248c has the 98k rear sight-no 1920
    Amberg 1918 8582c nazi proof on barrel 98k rear sight
    Danzig 1916 6630ll has 98k rear sight
    Danzig 1914 258c
    Kar98a Erfurt 1916 7581r
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    Betonfahrer
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    Posted - 01/24/2004 : 10:45:15 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graff, rear sight for 1902 and sn pics for Danzig 1916 10000rr
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    Betonfahrer
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    Posted - 01/24/2004 : 10:52:21 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    cant get pics to work, I did ok on the test fourm but having no luck here. I'll keep trying .
    While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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    Betonfahrer
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    Posted - 01/24/2004 : 11:11:05 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    sight pic for 1902 Danzig,sn. on 1916 Danzig 10000rr?

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    While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/24/2004 : 11:41:43 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    'B-man' This is actually the norm on pre 1904 gew98's having had only their L.v. leaf & slides replaced for the S patrone.Only on thorough rebuilds or rebarrel jobs did they install the 400 meter battle sight setting sight base. Drop me an email if you have mismatch bit's on your straight imperial gew98's as I may be able to help you with parts swapping to match them up a bit.
    As for the serial being 10,000 spot on.First I have ever seen or heard of it.I had always been under the assumption they reached 9,999 and went to # 1 on the next alpha prefix. Is the bolt , handguard , triggerguard , buttplate and stock serialed with the same #10000 serial number ?.
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/24/2004 : 1:41:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    It is also the first example I have seen with the 10,000 serial, though I have recently seen two pistols that sport such serial numbers (P08 & a P38) links below:

    http://lmd-militaria.com/page46.html

    http://lmd-militaria.com/page41.html


    I would really like to see more of this 1916 rifle as it is very interesting… the 200m sight thing was my error, I was under the impression it was an “unaltered” rear sight (after re-reading your earlier post I see you mentioned just the base) & very few are out there!
    Earlier I misunderstood you again & thought the 5 digit serial & the 200m were the same rifle!
    Of course that is impossible for such an early maker with such a huge serial number extension… only on the re-read to I see it was a 1916 Danzig- I will have to slow down on my reading!





    quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer

    sight pic for 1902 Danzig,sn. on 1916 Danzig 10000rr?

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    hoppes
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    Posted - 01/26/2004 : 12:23:46 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Can contirbute one GEW 98

    Oberndorf
    1917
    Serial number 8499g
    All Imperial but not matching
    Has 8mm Turkey stamped on right receiver but no other foreign marks
    Bolt is Imperial but serial number ground off
    Trigger asembly # 3644
    Buttplate #7137

    Interesting data! Keep up the good work!!
    Hoppes
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    Betonfahrer
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    Posted - 01/30/2004 : 12:22:36 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graff and GreatBill, here are some pics of the 5 digit Danzig 1916. I have not taken the rifle out of the stock, due to the shrapel or bullet damage for fear of damaging the stock further. the triggerguard was distorted by the impact. The buttplate on the rifle has the entire sn. stamped on it. the bands and small parts have just the 00 on them. Thanks for all the response, I am glad I was able to contribute to this topic. Keith

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    Betonfahrer
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    Posted - 01/30/2004 : 12:48:09 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graff and Great Bill, the pics on the 200m sight Danzig 1902. I bought the rifle with no bolt or floor plate. Everything that was there matched. The bayonet lug is what I considered the early type. When do you feel that they went to the later style bayonet lug that had the dished out area ? I have seen a 1899 Danzig that was very rough, and I may be able to get info on a 1900 Danzig. Thanks again, Keith.

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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/30/2004 : 5:45:24 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    B man ; As I have dsicussed before the 1903 - 1904 changes were :
    Update existing gew98's to S patrone and replace L.v. leaf and slide , firing pin safety shoulders added , gas ports in bolt body enlarged , new rear sight assembly specifically for the S patrone , and new pattern stronger bayonet lug. The early pattern bayo lug that has an open top exposing wood in barrel channel was replaced by the solid "top" type with contoured gap area.
    Anything mismatch on your 1902 ??. As for the 16 Danzig - it's way way cool. Neat serial , excellent condition and maybe morbid but awesome battle damage. Bill.
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    TP
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    Posted - 01/30/2004 : 6:00:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Betonfahrer, I agree with Bill. Those are two exceptionally interesting examples.
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/30/2004 : 7:52:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Totally agree- fascinating rifles!

    One thing I find especially note worthy is the fact that in the last few months I have seen two variations (single digit serial- 2 c on an 1901 Erfurt; and then again on the 1916 Danzig with the 5 digit serial...) both interesting variations and both outside of what is "normally" accepted. Further note that upon "reasonable" proof MauserBill accepted both openly & enthusiastically.

    I have seen & participated in threads where MauserBill's "open mindedness" was questioned, essentially saying that he wasn't open to views other than one's he was advancing...

    Not that I needed convincing, but any unbiased observer would be hard pressed to think that MauserBill is anything if not objective!

    quote:Originally posted by TP

    Betonfahrer, I agree with Bill. Those are two exceptionally interesting examples.


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    Betonfahrer
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    Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:20:06 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe

    B man ; As I have dsicussed before the 1903 - 1904 changes were :
    Update existing gew98's to S patrone and replace L.v. leaf and slide , firing pin safety shoulders added , gas ports in bolt body enlarged , new rear sight assembly specifically for the S patrone , and new pattern stronger bayonet lug. The early pattern bayo lug that has an open top exposing wood in barrel channel was replaced by the solid "top" type with contoured gap area.
    Anything mismatch on your 1902 ??. As for the 16 Danzig - it's way way cool. Neat serial , excellent condition and maybe morbid but awesome battle damage. Bill.

    While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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    Betonfahrer
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    Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:28:36 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    ON the 1902 Danzig, everything matches,But I had to put a bolt and a floorplate on it to complete the rifle.Someday I would like to find a Gew98 bolt body,I just put a un-numbered czech bolt in it.I know that this is not a gew98 question but do you know where I can get a Gew88 bolt head? I am rambling sorry but to finish the 1902 the bolt and floorplate are the only non-matching parts.
    thanks again for all the info,
    Keith
    While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/31/2004 : 12:14:43 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have a # 60 follower and a gew98 bolt all matched to itself ending in # 60 ( # 5560 d to be precise ). I owuld trade the # 60 follower for another straight imperial follower.I am betting since your floorplate was mismatch your follower will be as well - they usually are in such cases. Same goes for the bolt in swap if you have a matched to itself imperial gew98 bolt.
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/31/2004 : 12:48:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have a significant number of Imperial bolt bodies, and several floorplates- but none ending with #60...
    If you can't work out a trade with Bill drop me an email: [email protected]



    quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer

    ON the 1902 Danzig, everything matches,But I had to put a bolt and a floorplate on it to complete the rifle.Someday I would like to find a Gew98 bolt body,I just put a un-numbered czech bolt in it.I know that this is not a gew98 question but do you know where I can get a Gew88 bolt head? I am rambling sorry but to finish the 1902 the bolt and floorplate are the only non-matching parts.
    thanks again for all the info,
    Keith

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    p3skyking
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    Posted - 01/31/2004 : 7:04:26 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    It took awhile, but here they are;

    Schilling-------1916 ---- 2778e

    Spandau---------1909 ---- 6152a

    Kornbusch-------1916 ---- 9727c

    DWM-------------1916---- 3090r

    Mauser----------1916---- 515dd

    Danzig----------1902---- 1007h

    Amberg----------1917---- 7817r

    Simson----------1917---- 2602d (EWB marked stock)


    Karab 98b
    BLANK--------------------7274e


    KAR 98A (98AZ)
    Erfurt----------1915---- 1756k
    Edited by - p3skyking on 01/31/2004 7:22:07 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/31/2004 : 11:25:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks Mike, I remember a couple of these...

    The 1909 Spandau was a new high when I first saw it last year, but although I did get a somewhat decent image of the rifle when it was sold on GB, it was not clear enough to make it a confirmed serial.
    Were you the winner of it? Can you confirm the serial, as for now I have it marked as the “probably high” for 1909 Spandau?

    quote:Originally posted by p3skyking

    It took awhile, but here they are;

    Schilling-------1916 ---- 2778e

    Spandau---------1909 ---- 6152a

    Kornbusch-------1916 ---- 9727c

    DWM-------------1916---- 3090r

    Mauser----------1916---- 515dd

    Danzig----------1902---- 1007h

    Amberg----------1917---- 7817r

    Simson----------1917---- 2602d (EWB marked stock)


    Karab 98b
    BLANK--------------------7274e


    KAR 98A (98AZ)
    Erfurt----------1915---- 1756k

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    p3skyking
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    Posted - 02/01/2004 : 12:12:36 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Confirmed on that Spandau 1909 number. I was the high bid on that auction. I want to thank you for compiling these numbers. This is a much needed bank of information. Looking forward to the eventual results!
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    lite-box
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    Posted - 02/07/2004 : 01:29:30 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    DWM 1917 3341u
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    graf
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    Posted - 02/08/2004 : 01:52:34 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Chuck, that is a high serial for DWM in 1917 (current high is 3208 r) I would like to see images of this one if you don't mind?
    You seem to be the DWM man, as your 1902 DWM was also a high (actually it was the first observed example!)

    quote:Originally posted by lite-box

    DWM 1917 3341u

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    Rustybore
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    Posted - 02/08/2004 : 1:57:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I'll add a few to the list:
    1907 DWM 4398
    1913 Danzig k98a 2410a
    1915 Mauser 1190t(could be r) (reconfig to 98k to Norway 7.62 kal)
    1917 Mauser 5337

    Kevin in Or.
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    lite-box
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    Posted - 02/08/2004 : 10:47:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    Download Attachment:
    223.24 KB1917 DWM pics; rifle came with a 98a bolt, broken lower band and minus handguars ans has a spliced duffel cut. looks like a U to me...



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    Graf have been able to decipher anymore info on the 1902 after handling it ?

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    graf
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    Posted - 02/09/2004 : 5:57:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Very nice pics!
    It is definitely a new high for DWM in 1917… although I am of the opinion that is more likely a “v” rather than a “u”, I would very much like to get others opinion regarding this.

    I will attach images of several rifles with both suffix styles- this is the reason why images of serial numbers is so important as there is variation to the letters & it is often difficult to discern certain letters!

    The 1902 DWM is very cool & I sure do look forward to “restoring” it!
    It had more original parts on it than I expected & it has significant potential imo.
    I did not notice anything different than when you initially imaged it (your imaging is very clear & thorough!).
    It is a largely original naval contract Gewehr98 that has been reworked during the 30’s with a new barrel put on it.
    I suspect the barrel is older than the tangent sight base (S/42G for 1935) as the proofs on the barrel look earlier to me.
    I think this rifle has been reworked or rebuilt several times (notice the “matching” stock was a post 1916 stock & then the barrel/blued receiver for a total of 2 reworks minimum).

    Two DWM rifles & both highs for the list (the 1902 was not only a high but the first “observed” for DWM in 1902… though it was known they existed)
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    graf
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    Posted - 02/09/2004 : 6:13:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here are several examples of u & v suffix styles.
    1917 Amberg; 1917 MO; 1915 Spandau; the last two the best example as it shows two 1917 Erfurt 98a rifles...

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    lite-box
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    Posted - 02/10/2004 : 05:46:16 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf, Is it common for Erfurt 98a's like the one in yor pics to have two serial # suffix's ? My 1917 Erfurt 98a is 4147nn. I havn't seen to many 98a's, they like the GEW's are very uncommon out west...unsporterized that is !
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    graf
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    Posted - 02/10/2004 : 12:11:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    It was quite common on wartime production... 1915; 1916; 1917 & 1918 Erfurt production. Only Erfurt reached the double suffix with 98a production (imo).
    1917 far & away was top production for the 98a (Erfurt produced alone the 98a in 1917).
    I cropped the rifles serial some as the rifle (unfortunately) is not mine- it is the current high by far for 1917 Erfurt!

    Your nn suffix is very near the end of 1917 as double v is the current high. Erfurt must of been pouring out production by 1917 to reach the double v range!


    quote:Originally posted by lite-box

    Graf, Is it common for Erfurt 98a's like the one in yor pics to have two serial # suffix's ? My 1917 Erfurt 98a is 4147nn. I havn't seen to many 98a's, they like the GEW's are very uncommon out west...unsporterized that is !

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    rmeron
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    Posted - 02/16/2004 : 5:26:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    My only Mauser is a Mod 98 PREDUZECE 44,don't know much else about it
    RMERON
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 02/21/2004 : 9:19:02 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Saw a neat 1899 erfurt a buddy got at the SOS show. It is a bit rough on the outside and a tad mismatched , but it's quite the naval gewehr98 for sure.
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    TP
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    Posted - 03/02/2004 : 01:27:36 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Is it just me or do the JP Sauer & Sohn made rifles seem very hard to find? I've only seen one and am trying to work out a deal on it.
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    Petereye05
    Gunboards Member

    United Kingdom
    87 Posts

    Posted - 03/02/2004 : 12:52:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    TP,

    Yes - they are as rare as Haenel made Gew98's
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

    USA
    1294 Posts

    Posted - 03/02/2004 : 5:22:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I think most of the Suhl makers are a little tougher than the meat & potatoes makers (the arsenals, DWM & MO)... I own 2 JP Sauer’s (1 1916 project rifle & a 1917 quality matching rifle) and I like them very much!
    I never cared for JP Sauer production of the 98k, though I have owned several examples of them over the years also... they were the first of my 98k rifles I sold or traded off.

    In my personal database I have examples of (5) 1916 dated JP Sauer’s & (4) 1917 dated JP Sauer’s- no examples from 1915 or 1918 which as we have discussed earlier are rare- or should I say scarce???

    I think 1916 or 1917 JP Sauer production a little tougher to locate but not rare or scarce- imo Haenel & Schilling are tougher to find! (at least from my experience)

    Oh, pure production/serial extensions from the database (Suhl makers only... this can be a little misleading as WOK is not listed and it was always competing with Simson for the low spot!).

    Lowest to highest production- Suhl only:

    1915- Simson; Sauer; Haenel Schilling
    1916- Simson; Haenel; Schilling; Sauer
    1917- Simson; Haenel; Sauer; Schilling
    1918- Simson; Sauer; Haenel; Schilling

    Anyway you look at it, any of the Suhl makers are "rarer" than the arsenals, MO & DWM who sometimes put out double any of the Suhl makers!

    quote:Originally posted by TP

    Is it just me or do the JP Sauer & Sohn made rifles seem very hard to find? I've only seen one and am trying to work out a deal on it.


    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    Edited by - graf on 03/02/2004 5:45:38 PM
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    The Great Billdildoe
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

    USA
    1910 Posts

    Posted - 03/02/2004 : 5:39:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have to add I have had a fair amount of luck finding JP sauer gew98's , the majority of them 1916 .I don't thnik them rare or scarc for 16 or 17 dates. As all noted any nice matching 18 dated gew98 is a scarce bird. I have had only one matching 1918 dated gew98 - a VC Schilling.But it was so horribly shattered at the wrist and repaired nicely - but still looked horrible I let a buddy in VA have it... it was just too hard on the eyes !!.
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    fergus
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

    Pitcairn Island
    489 Posts

    Posted - 03/02/2004 : 5:40:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf.....did you catch the 1916 C.G. Haenel that went at auction a few weeks back?

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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

    USA
    1294 Posts

    Posted - 03/02/2004 : 6:01:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I saw all $770 of it go out!

    Dan did well on that one & I was a little surprised on how well it did- even with a sling he did full retail on it- (imo).

    This is a lesson (one well learned by me selling off numerous rifles myself v. AA ) for those bonehead sellers who refuse to show details... clear, quality pictures & honest, knowledgeable description will bring solid prices on the gun auction sites!
    When I sell a rifle I post a couple dozen pics & show every detail (plus a detailed/knowledgeable text) and have made top dollar more times than not!

    For the curious: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5489898



    quote:Originally posted by fergus

    Graf.....did you catch the 1916 C.G. Haenel that went at auction a few weeks back?

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    petersen43
    Gunboards Premium Member

    USA
    238 Posts

    Posted - 03/04/2004 : 6:47:39 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi,
    Just bought a Gew.98 this afternoon. It is a JP Sauer/1916. Rifle is totally matching down to the cleaning rod, serial number is 1903n. Rifle has a unit disc instead of a bolt takedown disc, however, there is no unit info stamped onto the disc. Rifle has never been modified, and is not import marked. Hope this helps!-George
    "What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
    -Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

    USA
    1294 Posts

    Posted - 03/05/2004 : 10:19:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the addition... in 1916 Sauer went to the t range; still you did well to find one totally matching!

    It is a rare thing to find 1916 dated Imperial rifles with unit markings- I have seen only a couple, one of which was marked to a MG unit! (this was a 98a)
    In 1916 they started the process of elimination of the disk & use of the take down/finger grips...


    quote:Originally posted by petersen43

    Hi,
    Just bought a Gew.98 this afternoon. It is a JP Sauer/1916. Rifle is totally matching down to the cleaning rod, serial number is 1903n. Rifle has a unit disc instead of a bolt takedown disc, however, there is no unit info stamped onto the disc. Rifle has never been modified, and is not import marked. Hope this helps!-George

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    petersen43
    Gunboards Premium Member

    USA
    238 Posts

    Posted - 03/06/2004 : 11:35:48 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi Graf,
    Thanks for the info. I have been collecting k98s for several years, and this is my first gew98. I paid $350 out the door for it, and feel I got a great deal on it. I was told the rifle had been brought in by an oil burner mechanic earlier in the day, who'd gotten it from an older customer of his when he'd seen it while working in the mans basement. The problem with buying the gun from a shop is that they'll never give you the contact info on the guy who brought a gun in to allow you to research it's history, or even agree to forward your info to the guy in most cases. When I got the rifle home, I tried looking into it in my copy of "The German Rifle", but they don't even mention JP Sauer being a Gew98 manufacturer (as of 1979 anyway). They also state that by 1916, all rifles had a takedown disc and finger grooves in the forend, though mine had neither, which is when I went onto gunboards to see what I could find out about it. Anyone know if the Sarco repro slings for the gew98 are worth buying? Thanks again for the info-George
    "What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
    -Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

    USA
    1294 Posts

    Posted - 03/06/2004 : 7:49:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I doubt many would argue that you didn’t get a great deal!
    $350 is a fine price for what you describe…

    Yes, in the article I did for the MRJ a year or two back I wrote of the strange fact that John Walter neglected to mention JP Sauer in his book!
    Even more unusual (and much less justifiably) he left it out again in his more recent “Central Powers Small Arms of World War One” printed in 1999!
    Although John Walters’s books have minor errors, they are the best books in print on the subject (imo)- so far!

    I generally don’t buy from the big dealers… if I were in to buying one I would try TP or occasionally eBay has one (not sure of the source of these- they may even be from Sarco?) but I have had so many bad experiences with most of the large surplus dealers (years ago granted) that I disregard them altogether these days.



    quote:Originally posted by petersen43

    Hi Graf,
    Thanks for the info. I have been collecting k98s for several years, and this is my first gew98. I paid $350 out the door for it, and feel I got a great deal on it. I was told the rifle had been brought in by an oil burner mechanic earlier in the day, who'd gotten it from an older customer of his when he'd seen it while working in the mans basement. The problem with buying the gun from a shop is that they'll never give you the contact info on the guy who brought a gun in to allow you to research it's history, or even agree to forward your info to the guy in most cases. When I got the rifle home, I tried looking into it in my copy of "The German Rifle", but they don't even mention JP Sauer being a Gew98 manufacturer (as of 1979 anyway). They also state that by 1916, all rifles had a takedown disc and finger grooves in the forend, though mine had neither, which is when I went onto gunboards to see what I could find out about it. Anyone know if the Sarco repro slings for the gew98 are worth buying? Thanks again for the info-George

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    Vulch
    Moderator English Gun Pub

    Australia
    6297 Posts

    Posted - 03/14/2004 : 05:32:47 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Sorry to take so long chiming in.

    Only got one Gew98 now - sold the 1917 Haenel. My remaining Gew98 is a V. CHR Schilling, 1917, serial 1780 b (ENTIRELY matching)



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    feldmutze
    Gunboards Premium Member

    USA
    188 Posts

    Posted - 03/14/2004 : 5:45:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Vulch, for having only one gew98 left (and only showing us the one photo), that sure looks to be nice!
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    Betonfahrer
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

    USA
    463 Posts

    Posted - 03/16/2004 : 11:53:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Found the other Gew&Kar 98s
    Kar 98 Danzig 1918 9371a
    Kar 98 Danzig 1912 8477
    Gew 98 Danzig 1914 4070a
    Gew 98 Danzig 1916 5414j
    Keith
    While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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    r_t_darc
    Gunboards Member

    USA
    49 Posts

    Posted - 03/21/2004 : 2:22:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Have a few more to add to your list:

    Kar 98 - Erfurt 1916, # 9860cc
    Kar 98 - Erfurt 1917, # 1963mm

    slightly off topic - Kar98b #7386d
    (this is a blank receiver/square S)

    Gew 98 - Danzig 1917, # 3128t
    Gew 98 - D.W.M. 1918, # 7118c
    Gew 98 - O/dorf 1917, # 4659n
    Gew 98 - Spandau1904, # 7095c
    Gew 98 - Spandau1916, # 7096
    (Kinda cute quirk of serial no's
    on these two Spandau's... )

    Following two guns are salvaged Gew
    receivers rebuilt into K98k config:
    1916 DWM - #6188e
    1916 DWM - #2210bb

    Hope I've helped out just a little-
    Rich M.
    r.t. Darc
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

    USA
    1294 Posts

    Posted - 03/22/2004 : 5:24:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Rich, you sure did!
    As surprising as it may seem some of your very high serial numbers are not high's- several are very close!
    However, one is a new high, 1904 Spandau ser. 7095 c (the old high was 3948 b so it is a good jump!) Can you do images?

    In 20+ years of collecting, I haven’t seen many Gewehr98/98k conversions (legit ones anyway) awesome that you have two! (Of course any 98b is cool), - you have an impressive collection!



    quote:Originally posted by r_t_darc

    Have a few more to add to your list:

    Kar 98 - Erfurt 1916, # 9860cc
    Kar 98 - Erfurt 1917, # 1963mm

    slightly off topic - Kar98b #7386d
    (this is a blank receiver/square S)

    Gew 98 - Danzig 1917, # 3128t
    Gew 98 - D.W.M. 1918, # 7118c
    Gew 98 - O/dorf 1917, # 4659n
    Gew 98 - Spandau1904, # 7095c
    Gew 98 - Spandau1916, # 7096
    (Kinda cute quirk of serial no's
    on these two Spandau's... )

    Following two guns are salvaged Gew
    receivers rebuilt into K98k config:
    1916 DWM - #6188e
    1916 DWM - #2210bb

    Hope I've helped out just a little-
    Rich M.

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

    USA
    1294 Posts

    Posted - 03/22/2004 : 5:31:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks Lewis & Keith, that is a sad thing parting with the Haenel!
    Though the Schilling is nicer (at least from the pics you have shared with us in the past) I would of had a hard time parting with it...




    quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer

    Found the other Gew&Kar 98s
    Kar 98 Danzig 1918 9371a
    Kar 98 Danzig 1912 8477
    Gew 98 Danzig 1914 4070a
    Gew 98 Danzig 1916 5414j
    Keith

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    The Great Billdildoe
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1910 Posts

    Posted - 03/22/2004 : 9:37:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe

    I have to add I have had a fair amount of luck finding JP sauer gew98's , the majority of them 1916 .I don't thnik them rare or scarc for 16 or 17 dates. As all noted any nice matching 18 dated gew98 is a scarce bird. I have had only one matching 1918 dated gew98 - a VC Schilling.But it was so horribly shattered at the wrist and repaired nicely - but still looked horrible I let a buddy in VA have it... it was just too hard on the eyes !!.

    ..............
    ............... Well don't you know when speaking of the devile... I got that schilling back in trade today. So it's home to stay.And in retrospect the damage that was repaired was nowhere near as horrible as I had lead myself to believe.

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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

    USA
    1294 Posts

    Posted - 03/22/2004 : 10:04:30 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Geez, that's nice!
    Let's see the damage... I can't imagine me passing on this rifle even if the buttstock was gone!
    This is the first straight up "Imperial" 1918 Schilling I have seen- cool rifle!

    I have my fingers crossed that you'll find something you can’t afford so you can sell this one to me!!
    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    r_t_darc
    Gunboards Member

    USA
    49 Posts

    Posted - 03/26/2004 : 12:13:51 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I've gotten together some photos of my Spandau 1904
    that might possibly be the highest number reported so far.
    Their quality isn't so good, as all were taken with my
    very inexpensive PC web-cam. To make up for this lack
    of quality, I added in some more in the way of quantity!
    The rifle is an early WW2 rework with Su-4 & Su-28
    markings. The rebuild date can be pinned down pretty
    well, as the rear sight base bears a 1941 stamp, while
    the rear band is dated 1940; I'd guess Jan or Feb '41.
    While not in the original WW1 configuration, it is still
    in very nice condition, with a matching straight bolt.
    The part numbers are not lined out or over-stamped,
    as on many rebuilt rifles. I hope I haven't let down
    all the purists out there too badly, but I do have a
    soft spot for these WW1 veterans that got drafted
    for another round of service by the Third Reich .
    r.t. Darc
    Edited by - r_t_darc on 03/27/2004 01:15:20 AM
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    r_t_darc
    Gunboards Member

    USA
    49 Posts

    Posted - 03/26/2004 : 12:40:26 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Images are of 1&2:Receiver, 3:Barrel left, 4:Bolt handle, 5:Buttstock stamp, 6:Barrel right, 7:Rear band markings, 8:Rear sight base.

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    By the way, does anyone have a good idea which organization used
    the "Su #" stampings found on various rebuilt WW1 weapons ? (I
    also have an Su4/1938 marked butcher blade bayonet for the rifle)
    Thanks for the chance to add to the discussion and information !
    r.t. Darc
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    The Great Billdildoe
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1910 Posts

    Posted - 03/26/2004 : 05:42:26 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    RT ; the Su proof if I remember correctly from my friend Dietrich is Simson Uberrect ( spelling may be off ). Anyhow with the MP8 cartouche your rifle, or at least the stock was sent to spain as that is a spanish rework proof.
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    r_t_darc
    Gunboards Member

    USA
    49 Posts

    Posted - 03/27/2004 : 01:31:57 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    That just adds another wrinkle to the gun's history!
    During what time period would the MP 8 marking have
    been used in Spain? The serial number on the stock
    is rather worn,but it does appear to match the rest.
    The stock metal is all German proofed, but the 'MP'
    is the only remaining stamp on the butt of the gun.
    r.t. Darc
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    The Great Billdildoe
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

    USA
    1910 Posts

    Posted - 03/27/2004 : 08:55:09 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The MP 8 cartouche as I recall was a post WW2 era ( post span civ war more likely ) rebuild mark the spainish applied to ANY rifle they refurbished - whether issued or placed in storage. To include weapons captured from the communists.I have seen this cartouche on Winchester 95's , Mosins , Wz29's ,Vz24 & 23's , Gew98's.
    Edited by - The Great Billdildoe on 03/27/2004 08:56:52 AM
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    r_t_darc
    Gunboards Member

    USA
    49 Posts

    Posted - 03/28/2004 : 8:58:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe

    The MP 8 cartouche as I recall was a post WW2 era ( post span civ war more likely ) rebuild mark the spainish applied to ANY rifle they refurbished - whether issued or placed in storage. To include weapons captured from the communists.I have seen this cartouche on Winchester 95's , Mosins , Wz29's ,Vz24 & 23's , Gew98's.



    Wow - That's quite a range of captured weaponry!
    Maybe that's where the Russians got the idea to ware-
    house every item ever captured by them during WW2
    Looks like my Gewehr took an unexpected detour, maybe
    during the Spanish Civil War? Thanks for the info!
    r.t. Darc
    Edited by - r_t_darc on 03/28/2004 9:01:15 PM
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    gillou
    Gunboards Member

    France
    13 Posts

    Posted - 04/15/2004 : 4:45:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1902 Spandau 3392 a
    1915 Dantzig 6410 n

    Best regards
    Gilles
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

    USA
    1294 Posts

    Posted - 04/15/2004 : 5:39:12 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    On 1902 Spandau we have 2576 c as a high; in 1915 for Danzig we have 1563 w for a high.

    Thanks for the help!

    Those early Gewehr98’s are quite scarce if still in Imperial trim & matching…

    quote:Originally posted by gillou

    1902 Spandau 3392 a
    1915 Dantzig 6410 n

    Best regards
    Gilles

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    Puska24
    Gunboards Member

    39 Posts

    Posted - 04/16/2004 : 3:04:05 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1916 Mixmaster Mauser Oberndorf 2934 k ( I think it's a k ), with a # 3019 stamped on the rear of the receiver...Pics were taken with my phone, so they are not so good... I just added a pic of it with my 1917 Enfield and 1915 Mosin M-91... It's taken with the camera phone again, aww...



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    beeker77
    Gunboards Member

    USA
    37 Posts

    Posted - 04/21/2004 : 7:13:14 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit beeker77's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gew98, 1916 Spandau, s/n 3483 l (that's an 'el' suffix), barrel bands 35 (lower) and 76 (top)

    Gew98, 1918 Oberndorf, s/n 488 l (that's an 'el' suffix), turkish crescent top center of receiver, 5-point star 1/4-inch left of Gew.98 stamp.
    "Few experiences in life are so exhilirating as to have been shot at without result." - Winston Churchill
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    WaPrüf2
    Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

    USA
    935 Posts

    Posted - 04/22/2004 : 09:13:53 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    GEW 98s, KAR 98As AND KAR 98AZs IN THe SPRINGFIELD ARMORY COLLECTION
    This information previously published by me in KCN. For details of any weapon consult directly with Springfield.
    GEW 98
    Amberg 1916 SN 3709
    Danzig 1900 SN 4157 (converted to Zielgewehr)
    DWM 1901 SN 60a (Navy)
    Mauser 1906 SN 8540c
    Mauser 1913 SN 4230 (w breech cover)
    J.P. Sauer 1916 SN 8427c
    Spandau 1901 SN 651 (w original rear sight; converted to Zielgewehr)
    Spandau 1906 SN SN 2215d
    Spandau 1915 SN 7070t
    Spandau 1915 SN 9574a (Reichswehr rework)
    Sniper, maker obscured by sight moun, SN 6198g
    Bavarian sniper, maker obscured by sight mount, SN ?
    KAR 98A
    Erfurt 1904 SN 6311
    KAR 98AZ
    Danzig 1909 SN 7215
    Danzig 1910 SN 1213
    Erfurt 1915 SN 5703a
    Erfurt 1916 SN 8811a
    Erfurt 1916 SN 7718gg
    Erfurt 1916 SN 5762mm
    Erfurt 1917 SN 5854
    -30-
    Edited by - WaPrüf2 on 04/22/2004 1:48:01 PM
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

    USA
    1294 Posts

    Posted - 04/23/2004 : 10:04:39 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Great stuff CB, and I find it especially valuable as I actually did the "hour tour" last November (I asked so many questions & walked like a 90 year old so as to spend more time! Drew it out to an hour & half...).
    I tried to see what I could but they wouldn't let hands on examination & the displays were done so serial detail was obscured... didn't get much data while there, but it is surely the best National Park I have ever been to!

    Thank you for the details!


    quote:Originally posted by WaPrüf2

    GEW 98s, KAR 98As AND KAR 98AZs IN THe SPRINGFIELD ARMORY COLLECTION
    This information previously published by me in KCN. For details of any weapon consult directly with Springfield.
    GEW 98
    Amberg 1916 SN 3709
    Danzig 1900 SN 4157 (converted to Zielgewehr)
    DWM 1901 SN 60a (Navy)
    Mauser 1906 SN 8540c
    Mauser 1913 SN 4230 (w breech cover)
    J.P. Sauer 1916 SN 8427c
    Spandau 1901 SN 651 (w original rear sight; converted to Zielgewehr)
    Spandau 1906 SN SN 2215d
    Spandau 1915 SN 7070t
    Spandau 1915 SN 9574a (Reichswehr rework)
    Sniper, maker obscured by sight moun, SN 6198g
    Bavarian sniper, maker obscured by sight mount, SN ?
    KAR 98A
    Erfurt 1904 SN 6311
    KAR 98AZ
    Danzig 1909 SN 7215
    Danzig 1910 SN 1213
    Erfurt 1915 SN 5703a
    Erfurt 1916 SN 8811a
    Erfurt 1916 SN 7718gg
    Erfurt 1916 SN 5762mm
    Erfurt 1917 SN 5854
    -30-

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    maximvikers
    Gunboards Premium Member

    205 Posts

    Posted - 04/25/2004 : 6:11:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Spandau 1907 #4247b
    Mauser Oberndorf 1918 #3940L
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    Maverick35N
    Starting Member

    USA
    3 Posts

    Posted - 04/28/2004 : 8:04:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here is my small contribution.

    G71, Amberg, 1880, 80442
    G71/84, Spandau, 1887, 2564
    G98, Oberndorf, 1915, 3946m
    G98, Oberndorf, 1916, 8372h
    Kar98AZ, Amberg, 1911, 8098

    Kar98AZ Pix


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    WaPrüf2
    Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

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    935 Posts

    Posted - 04/30/2004 : 09:15:52 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    More goodies. Most were reported to the KCN at one point.
    GEW 98
    Amberg 1916 SN 592n
    Amberg 1916 SN 386t
    Amberg 1917 SN 5881a
    Danzig 1917 SN 7760dd (aka G98b)
    Danzig 1917 SN 451cc (sniper)
    Danzig 1917 SN 2689hh (aka G98a)
    DWM 1899 SN 5706 (Navy)
    DWM 1913 SN 2225 (Navy)
    DWM 1915 SN 4850w
    DWM 1916 SN 4386L
    DWM 1917 SN 9754
    DWM 1917/1920 SN 3325h
    Erfurt 1916 SN 2518/1 (Sterngeweher)
    Mauser 1916 SN 5902s
    Schllling 1916 SN 6883r
    Simson 1917 SN 808a
    Spandau 1899 SN 2191
    Spandau 1900 SN 4977c
    Spandau 1900 SN 7478k (Colonial; reliably reported)
    Spandau 1901 SN 7083 (Colonial)
    Spandau 1903 SN 1210 (Colonial)
    Spandau 1904 SN 1156
    Spandau 1915 SN 7698e
    Spandau 1916 SN 1690ee
    Spandau 1917 SN 2479/2 (Sterngewehr; 2-piece stock)
    Spandau/DZ (Sic) 1917/18 (sic) SN 1370c (aka G98b)
    Spandau 1917 (H over crown) SN 28740c (barrel dtd 1920) (aka G98a)
    GEW 98 RADFAHRER
    Spandau 1914 SN 1293
    KAR 98A
    Erfurt 1904 SN 3794
    KAR 98AZ
    Danzig 1911 SN 8654
    Danzig 1918 SN 7948c
    Danzig 1918/1920 (running horse on receiver) SN 1739d
    Erfurt 1909 SN 2284
    Erfurt 1916 SN 5287L
    Erfurt 1916/1920 SN 9394kk (P.w.B.; D.R.G.)
    Erfurt 1917 SN 2257k
    Erfurt 1918 SN 4076b (2-piece stock)
    Erfurt 1918/1920 SN 7003b
    Erfurt 1918 SN 9825n (EWB)
    Spandau 1908 SN 739a

    G98a = Weimar rework w narrow lower band
    G98b = Weimar rework w wide lower band
    (These old-time collector designations; not official).
    Edited by - WaPrüf2 on 04/30/2004 3:32:31 PM
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    FixBayonets
    Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

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    695 Posts

    Posted - 04/30/2004 : 2:24:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    GEW98 Mauser 1901 Erfurt 8164 c
    GEW98 Mauser 1916 DWM 232
    GEW98 Mauser 1914 Spandau 8313 f
    GEW98 Mauser 1917 Mauser Oberndorf 6230 s
    GEW98 Mauser 1918 Mauser Oberndorf 7373 t
    KAR98 Mauser 1918 Erfurt 3292 u
    KAR98a Mauser 1918 Erfurt 950 k
    KAR98a Mauser 1917 Erfurt 9324
    "Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges."

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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 04/30/2004 : 7:32:12 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Cool Amberg!
    I have tried to acquire one a couple of times... but so far have only been able to get a barrel off one- kind of disappointing story behind that as well.
    At least it is a start!

    Post some more pics of the Amberg (if you don't mind?) I have seen only 5-6 and most had significant problems.
    Oh, yours is close to the "known" high- 8472


    quote:Originally posted by Maverick35N

    Here is my small contribution.

    G71, Amberg, 1880, 80442
    G71/84, Spandau, 1887, 2564
    G98, Oberndorf, 1915, 3946m
    G98, Oberndorf, 1916, 8372h
    Kar98AZ, Amberg, 1911, 8098

    Kar98AZ Pix


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    Edited by - graf on 04/30/2004 7:39:32 PM
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 04/30/2004 : 7:38:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    CB, thanks again! Can't wait to compare it to what we have... much of what we have is from the KCN (as the base of the database came from Wieringa's work on the KCN).
    I have scoured the issues I have, but as I only have 4 years of them, that leaves a significant gap!


    quote:Originally posted by WaPrüf2

    More goodies. Most were reported to the KCN at one point.
    GEW 98
    Amberg 1916 SN 592n
    Amberg 1916 SN 386t
    Amberg 1917 SN 5881a
    Danzig 1917 SN 7760dd (aka G98b)
    Danzig 1917 SN 451cc (sniper)
    Danzig 1917 SN 2689hh (aka G98a)
    DWM 1899 SN 5706 (Navy)
    DWM 1913 SN 2225 (Navy)
    DWM 1915 SN 4850w
    DWM 1916 SN 4386L
    DWM 1917 SN 9754
    DWM 1917/1920 SN 3325h
    Erfurt 1916 SN 2518/1 (Sterngeweher)
    Mauser 1916 SN 5902s
    Schllling 1916 SN 6883r
    Simson 1917 SN 808a
    Spandau 1899 SN 2191
    Spandau 1900 SN 4977c
    Spandau 1900 SN 7478k (Colonial; reliably reported)
    Spandau 1901 SN 7083 (Colonial)
    Spandau 1903 SN 1210 (Colonial)
    Spandau 1904 SN 1156
    Spandau 1915 SN 7698e
    Spandau 1916 SN 1690ee
    Spandau 1917 SN 2479/2 (Sterngewehr; 2-piece stock)
    Spandau/DZ (Sic) 1917/18 (sic) SN 1370c (aka G98b)
    Spandau 1917 (H over crown) SN 28740c (barrel dtd 1920) (aka G98a)
    GEW 98 RADFAHRER
    Spandau 1914 SN 1293
    KAR 98A
    Erfurt 1904 SN 3794
    KAR 98AZ
    Danzig 1911 SN 8654
    Danzig 1918 SN 7948c
    Danzig 1918/1920 (running horse on receiver) SN 1739d
    Erfurt 1909 SN 2284
    Erfurt 1916 SN 5287L
    Erfurt 1916/1920 SN 9394kk (P.w.B.; D.R.G.)
    Erfurt 1917 SN 2257k
    Erfurt 1918 SN 4076b (2-piece stock)
    Erfurt 1918/1920 SN 7003b
    Erfurt 1918 SN 9825n (EWB)
    Spandau 1908 SN 739a

    G98a = Weimar rework w narrow lower band
    G98b = Weimar rework w wide lower band
    (These old-time collector designations; not official).

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    http://gewehr98.com/
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 04/30/2004 : 8:04:52 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    FB, quite a good post- two new high serials!

    1901 Erfurt moved from 6568 c, a decent hop for an early Gewehr98!
    1918 MO moved from 1831 p to your t block!

    If you can do pics of the serials that would be great- I record all new highs as "reported" but confirmed is always better...
    I am unsure how Mark Wieringa formed the base of this database, but as this was done before the forums became so user friendly he probably took the reported same as confirmed?
    I have used asterisks to differentiate the reported from the confirmed.

    Thanks again, two new highs are encouraging!



    quote:Originally posted by FixBayonets

    GEW98 Mauser 1901 Erfurt 8164 c
    GEW98 Mauser 1916 DWM 232
    GEW98 Mauser 1914 Spandau 8313 f
    GEW98 Mauser 1917 Mauser Oberndorf 6230 s
    GEW98 Mauser 1918 Mauser Oberndorf 7373 t
    KAR98 Mauser 1918 Erfurt 3292 u
    KAR98a Mauser 1918 Erfurt 950 k
    KAR98a Mauser 1917 Erfurt 9324

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    rocklock
    Gunboards Member

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    48 Posts

    Posted - 05/09/2004 : 8:43:58 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit rocklock's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    GEW 98 Oberndorf 1917 7707
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    petersen43
    Gunboards Premium Member

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    238 Posts

    Posted - 05/19/2004 : 7:53:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Amberg 1916
    s/n 8569 n
    "What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
    -Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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    TOVARISCH
    Gunboards Member

    53 Posts

    Posted - 05/20/2004 : 1:43:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    My only Mauser. Just donated to me by my Father.
    DWM 1916 GEW 98 serial# 5565
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    petersen43
    Gunboards Premium Member

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    238 Posts

    Posted - 05/20/2004 : 10:07:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Mauser Oberndorf 1917
    s/n 8253n
    "What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
    -Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 05/21/2004 : 9:36:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the serials, these wartime production rifles have huge numbers (high suffixes- often double suffixes) so rarely do we get a new high with them- but it is good to see the posts anyway!
    Keep them coming!


    quote:Originally posted by petersen43

    Mauser Oberndorf 1917
    s/n 8253n

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    Petereye05
    Gunboards Member

    United Kingdom
    87 Posts

    Posted - 05/22/2004 : 1:05:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Paul,

    I also have a Gew 71 by Amberg and a Gew 71/84 by Spandau - here are the details :

    Gew 71 Amberg 1877 s/n 5990 unit mark B.1.R.5.102.

    Gew 71/84 Spandau 1887 s/n 2626 unit mark G.F.R.
    R.78.

    Regards,

    Peter.
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    cartophilis2
    Gunboards Premium Member

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    130 Posts

    Posted - 06/07/2004 : 7:24:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hey i got one Saturday:
    Danzig 1916
    all matching but bolt-- 8724 over RR
    excellent shape-- had to fix broke firing pin
    i dont think im gonna keep it though-- i dont collect mausers
    CARTO

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    keithreid
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    2410 Posts

    Posted - 06/08/2004 : 3:26:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    have 2 for you:
    gew98 1915 spandau, K6300 M radom rework
    gew98 1918 mauser oberndorf, 8513 t turk marked.
    have another that was sporterized back in the 60's, but it's in seattle at the moment and i'm not. i'll post info on it as soon as i can.
    COA#104114
    looking for the following finn m91's:
    tikka with s/n below 130(25 tikka)
    44vkt(referenced in lapin's book)
    finned chattelerault m91


    Keith A. Reid
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 06/08/2004 : 6:46:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Carto;
    Cool right receiver proofs (also good clear pics which is always welcome!) The "crowned RC" is a well known proof representing a previously failed inspection being accepted for service, the script M is interesting & I have seen this before but am unaware of its meaning (if it has one at all? MauserBill perhaps??)
    8724 rr would be a new high serial number & I would very much like to view it if you would share it- I always record them as reported but for a confirmed high I like to see the serial (especially for e & r as it is an easy script to confuse on some of the makers! Though Danzig uses an easy to recognize "r" -some don't)

    Keith;
    Love to see the "t" range Turked MO, as that also would be a high serial (we have a reported 7373 t Turked MO for 1918 but it isn't confirmed by observation... regardless it would be a high for 1918 MO!)

    A word on observations v reported. I always welcome serial numbers (reported or observed) & if a high I record them on the database (but with asterisks) - I really like to confirm a serial number if an image is available!

    My email is [email protected] if privacy is an issue for you.


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    eulitathomas
    Gunboards Premium Member

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    110 Posts

    Posted - 06/09/2004 : 7:13:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hello Graf - Here's my contribution -
    1 - Kar 98 Erfurt 1918 # 9962 "B" marked stock
    2 - Gew 98 Spandau 1911 # 1496d unit disc = E.M.G.A. 12.45
    3 - Gew 98 Amburg 1906 # 9901 unit disc = B. 22 R. 8. 40.
    4 - Gew 98 Emil Kerner & Sohn Suhl 8.15 X 46R # 2 under receiver and
    beneath barrel.
    All guns are matching numbers.
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    Mike Augustine
    Gunboards Premium Member

    USA
    158 Posts

    Posted - 06/27/2004 : 6:45:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I bought a Gew98 DWM over the weekend.

    I have some pics to share, if anyone could give me some information or history on this rifle I'd appreciate it very much. I'm especially curious about the right side stamps I assume the letter under the serial is a W? The serial number is 1011.

    Thanks in advance for any help learning some more about this rifle.

    Matching numbers, with the cleaning rod, no bayonet or sling though.



    The Lange sight:



    Top stamp:



    Right side receiver:



    Left side same:



    Kind of a crappy picture of the bolt serial stamps:



    Looking down the barrel:



    I know that doesn't show a heck of a lot, but I thought it might be a nice twist on the usual pictures.


    END OF PAGE 3
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    Begin Page 4

    dg13
    Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

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    822 Posts

    Posted - 06/30/2004 : 8:54:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Does anyone have any spare parts for a gew 98? I need a few parts to match up my rifle.
    "One Nation UNDER GOD"
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
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    The Great Billdildoe
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1910 Posts

    Posted - 07/01/2004 : 8:11:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Apparently you need to read more posts in this thread - regarding parts.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    2DOGS
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

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    397 Posts

    Posted - 07/05/2004 : 9:29:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Only one Mauser in my collection,,,GEW98,,1917 AMBERG,,,ser#468m,,,Marked with 3 different types of crowns over shields,,,Lion with sword and shield,,,buttstock on right side is branded with letters EWB and B5.......SEMPER FI
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    hawkracer16
    Gunboards Member

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    24 Posts

    Posted - 07/08/2004 : 6:25:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    hey all. i've got a 1918 amberg, does anyone know if it could have been used in the tail of the First World War???
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    Jimbeaux
    Gunboards Premium Member

    187 Posts

    Posted - 07/08/2004 : 10:15:29 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1916 Oberndorf A/N ser# 4336c
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    dg13
    Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

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    822 Posts

    Posted - 07/08/2004 : 10:48:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1918 AMBERG--TAIL END OF wwi--MOST DEFENITELY!
    DG13
    "One Nation UNDER GOD"
    "IN GOD WE TRUST"
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    TP
    Moderator Military Mauser Forum

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    2034 Posts

    Posted - 07/10/2004 : 10:36:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by dg13

    1918 AMBERG--TAIL END OF wwi--MOST DEFENITELY!
    DG13



    Oh, yeah, no doubt about it! And it probably saw use during the post-War period when revolution was breaking out and there was trouble on the borders as well. Nice find.
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 07/15/2004 : 11:08:34 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Absolutely, and as it has the post war Bavarian "EWB" it saw some action post war also!

    How about some images? Is the receiver blued or is it still in the white? Does the bolt match & if so is it blued? Tabgent or Lange rear sight?

    We have confirmed serial ranges for 1917 Amberg into the "x" range- I don't think there is any doubt yours saw action or at least service.


    quote:Originally posted by 2DOGS

    Only one Mauser in my collection,,,GEW98,,1917 AMBERG,,,ser#468m,,,Marked with 3 different types of crowns over shields,,,Lion with sword and shield,,,buttstock on right side is branded with letters EWB and B5.......SEMPER FI

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    http://gewehr98.com/
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    jacobtowne
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    2383 Posts

    Posted - 07/21/2004 : 12:54:06 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    DWM 1907 SN 9712-1. Shortened to 98k after WWI. Captured by Soviets in WWII.
    JT
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 07/22/2004 : 6:00:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Interesting, can you do pics?

    The serial 9712 1 (is that an L or a 1?) I suspect an L as no DWM stern gewehr is "known" and as it is pre-war that is also a little unusual (only one other pre-war stern gewehr is known by me).
    Currently 1907 DWM high serial is 5944 e so either way this would be an interesting rifle to verify!

    Thanks

    quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

    DWM 1907 SN 9712-1. Shortened to 98k after WWI. Captured by Soviets in WWII.
    JT

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    Dutchman
    Moderator - Swedish Military Firearms Forum

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    1439 Posts

    Posted - 07/25/2004 : 4:12:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Dutchman's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gew98
    Mauser Oberndorf 1917
    8113v

    Has 4 Turk characters on the bbl shank between the receiver
    and rear sight. Stock has bolt take down grommet. Receiver is blued. Mismatched.

    Dutchman
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    2DOGS
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

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    397 Posts

    Posted - 07/25/2004 : 4:16:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    Absolutely, and as it has the post war Bavarian "EWB" it saw some action post war also!

    How about some images? Is the receiver blued or is it still in the white? Does the bolt match & if so is it blued? Tabgent or Lange rear sight?

    We have confirmed serial ranges for 1917 Amberg into the "x" range- I don't think there is any doubt yours saw action or at least service.

    I will try to post pics of my rifle, all numbers match including bolt, barrel, buttplate, magazine assy., all screws and barrel bands have last 2 digits of serial number on them also,,,,SEMPER FI

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    quote:Originally posted by 2DOGS

    Only one Mauser in my collection,,,GEW98,,1917 AMBERG,,,ser#468m,,,Marked with 3 different types of crowns over shields,,,Lion with sword and shield,,,buttstock on right side is branded with letters EWB and B5.......SEMPER FI


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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 07/25/2004 : 9:32:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the pics & the new serial (1917 MO are reported well into the "aa" range, & like yours most went to Turkey.)

    The EWB is pretty cool; some of the pics look like blued receiver some maybe no? (I suspect probably so...) also no rear sight viewed but probably a tangent?
    I like these EWB's, especially all matching ones!
    Though that bolt looked suspicious from the image, post some better pics & we should be able to determine if legit German matching...

    Not many of these post war Gewehr98M come up matching.

    quote:Originally posted by Dutchman

    Gew98
    Mauser Oberndorf 1917
    8113v

    Has 4 Turk characters on the bbl shank between the receiver
    and rear sight. Stock has bolt take down grommet. Receiver is blued. Mismatched.

    Dutchman

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    No longer a member
    Starting Member

    Vatican City
    -9832 Posts

    Posted - 07/31/2004 : 3:46:02 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I used to own this G-98.
    J.P. Sauer & Sohn Suhl 1917 ser 1514
    On the receiver above the Sauer markings is the Radom diamond shape. The markings on the stock

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    JPS
    Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector

    USA
    4436 Posts

    Posted - 08/09/2004 : 1:14:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Yo Graf & T.P.

    Sorry for not getting around to this sooner. Here you go.

    1) Danzig 1901, sn - 4**g

    2) Danzig 1902, sn - 83**g

    3) DWM 1916, sn - 81**g

    4) DWM 1916, sn - 85**dd

    5) Spandau 1916, sn - 29**c

    6) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916, sn 97**b

    7) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1917, sn 48**g

    8) Mauser Oberndorf 1917, sn - 23**n

    9) Mauser Oberndorf 1918, sn - 91**b

    Hope this info is of help. If you want photos of any of them, please let me know which ones.

    Have a great week.

    Warmest regards,

    JPS
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    The Great Billdildoe
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1910 Posts

    Posted - 08/10/2004 : 7:06:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    Sorry for not getting around to this sooner. Here you go.

    Warmest regards,

    JPS
    [/quote]

    JPS ; Now you need to do a part list for your needy imperial era configuration gewehrs...hint hint.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    JPS
    Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector

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    4436 Posts

    Posted - 08/10/2004 : 8:16:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Yo Bill,

    That's why I emailed you and asked for updated lists. I have some time between now and my next business trip to go over my rifles carefully and log what I have and what I might need. I'll be in touch.

    Warmest regards,

    JPS
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 08/14/2004 : 5:30:14 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks John, unfortunately no new highs off them- I will send my parts list & database v email...



    quote:Originally posted by JPS

    Yo Graf & T.P.

    Sorry for not getting around to this sooner. Here you go.

    1) Danzig 1901, sn - 4**g

    2) Danzig 1902, sn - 83**g

    3) DWM 1916, sn - 81**g

    4) DWM 1916, sn - 85**dd

    5) Spandau 1916, sn - 29**c

    6) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916, sn 97**b

    7) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1917, sn 48**g

    8) Mauser Oberndorf 1917, sn - 23**n

    9) Mauser Oberndorf 1918, sn - 91**b

    Hope this info is of help. If you want photos of any of them, please let me know which ones.

    Have a great week.

    Warmest regards,

    JPS

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    fireman
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 08/14/2004 : 11:49:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1907 DWM Berlin 648 d

    Paul this is one I observed at the show today.
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    graf
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    Posted - 08/15/2004 : 1:04:59 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Rich, did you pick it up?

    The high for DWM in 1907 "so far" is 5944 e so pretty close!
    1907 was a big year production wise for the Gewehr98... strangely enough I have seen more 1907 dated Gewehr98's than pretty much anyother year (pre war)- but from the database that wouldn't seem to hold true as several years with several manufacturers had much high production!
    Danzig in 1904 & 05 went very high (1905 to the end of the U block!)


    quote:Originally posted by fireman

    1907 DWM Berlin 648 d

    Paul this is one I observed at the show today.

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    bjakimier
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    Posted - 08/16/2004 : 4:20:28 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    This is my only GEW.98; posted on this forum for info just today:
    Receiver: Top- Crown; over DANZIG; over 1915
    Left side- Small eagle mark; over 5499; over cursive "d"
    Right side- Three "crown" proof marks.
    Barrel: Top- "S" inside a triangle; all inside a circle.
    Left side- 5499
    Top right side- Four Weimar era firing proof marks.
    Perch313
    Perch313
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    No longer a member
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 08/25/2004 : 10:46:32 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    What do the letters "EWB" stand for? I have owned several mauser rifles, onlt the G98 had the "EWB" on the stock.
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    JR115
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    Posted - 08/30/2004 : 8:30:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hello:
    Here are a couple more:
    Kar98a - Spandau 1909 #454 (1920 Reissue)
    Gew98 - Mauser Oberndorf 1917 #4396
    Best regards,
    WL
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    graf
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    Posted - 09/06/2004 : 4:31:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Oh, you're teasing!!

    Would love to see the 1909 Spandau Kar98a! These Spandau 98a's are very rare & desirable, never actually seen one- they are that rare!

    The high (and only one reported in 1909) 1909 Spandau is #990. Spandau only made the Kar98a in 1908; 1909 & 1910- and never in significant numbers.


    quote:Originally posted by JR115

    Hello:
    Here are a couple more:
    Kar98a - Spandau 1909 #454 (1920 Reissue)
    Gew98 - Mauser Oberndorf 1917 #4396
    Best regards,
    WL

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    hoppes
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    Posted - 09/08/2004 : 02:07:24 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    My only GEW 98. Bought about 8-10 years ago Oberndorf 1917
    Barrel marked: Left side 8499 g
    Top S
    Top just at receiver 7,91

    Receiver marked Left side Imperial mark y8499 8 Gew 98
    g

    Right side Three Imperial marks CAI(?)8mm-Turkey
    Imperial bolt with number removed
    Trigger group 2 Imperial marks 3644

    May have gone to Turkey but has no other Turkish marks
    Stock has Imperial markings on right buttstock, reverse S on comb.

    Keep up the good work!! Interesting! Hoppes
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    The Phantom
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    11 Posts

    Posted - 09/08/2004 : 02:27:58 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gew. 98. - Erfurt 1916 - 4909

    Special marks:
    - Einwohnerwehr Bayern (EWB) mark can be partially seen on the stock.
    - Unknown (to me) mark (Bl. 375) on the right side of the barrel.

    Best regards.
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    tplan
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    Posted - 09/13/2004 : 1:28:54 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gew 98 DWM 1915 9770 k
    Simson & Co 1917 8525 e
    Kar 98a Erfurt 1916 3534 f
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    eulitathomas
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    Posted - 09/21/2004 : 7:19:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hello Graf, Here is another Gew 98 =
    Amberg 1917 #6898a
    S/42K on sight base as well as eagles.
    EWB on stock.
    All match except the bolt.
    Tom
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    graf
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    Posted - 09/22/2004 : 4:11:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks guys!

    No new highs but all still valuable! As soon as I get done with the move I will try & form some sort of medium for this information.


    quote:Originally posted by eulitathomas

    Hello Graf, Here is another Gew 98 =
    Amberg 1917 #6898a
    S/42K on sight base as well as eagles.
    EWB on stock.
    All match except the bolt.
    Tom

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    David Murvihill
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    Posted - 09/27/2004 : 9:03:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Kar 98 Erfurt 1916 #7486 with what looks like "hh" underneath on the receiver, and "aa" on the bolt. I was told it was a bring-back.

    Gew 98 Oberndorf 1917 #2155 with a pitted stamping in front of it.
    If no one minds I have a few questions about this rifle:
    1. Under the # on the receiver is the lower half of the import stamp. It appears to be some field in NJ?
    2. There is an "S" stamped behind and to the right of the rear sight. What is that?
    3. On the right side of the barrel behind the rear sight is the top half of a stamping which appears to end in "Turkey". What is the whole thing?
    4. Behind the stud on the bolt-side of the butt there is a red stripe painted or taped on (about60% flaked off, but the shadow remains) 3/8" wide and 1 1/2" long. Has anyone else seen this?

    You didn't ask about "foreign" models, so I won't list those.

    Thank you,
    Dave Murvihill
    Collector of Uncle Sam's Fantastic Toys.
    (and Uncle Joe's, and Uncle Willie's, and Aunt Lizzie's, and...)
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    tplan
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    Posted - 09/28/2004 : 01:08:04 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gew. 98 Spandau 1917 # 6283. Bayard receiver, assembled as K-98k with what I am told is an East German barrel. Only one fractur proof on the right side, no imperial firing proof, what looks like a Weimar firing proof. I wonder when this receiver was first assembled into a complete rifle, and even when it was given a serial #?
    John
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    Deputy Dan
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    Posted - 09/29/2004 : 6:46:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Almost forgot about these: (1) Gew98 DWM 1915 s/n 5488u (2) Gew98 Danzig 1916 s/n 9356y or possibly a z Tough to tell
    Edited by - Deputy Dan on 10/01/2004 6:13:01 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 10/09/2004 : 1:47:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    David, the "S" is a mark noting it uses S cartridge/ammunition- it is a mark you will find on almost all Gewehr98's...; the "NJ/Turkey" amrkings are the import markings that were put on the rifle when imported into the US, it was imported from Turkey (most 1917 & 1918 MO's saw service in Turkey); not sure on the red stripe? (perhaps an image? Probably something it picked up while in Turk service).

    John;
    Love to see detailed images of your 17 Spandau, though it won't help on the database, it sure sounds interesting...

    Thanks for the serials!


    quote:Originally posted by tplan

    Gew. 98 Spandau 1917 # 6283. Bayard receiver, assembled as K-98k with what I am told is an East German barrel. Only one fractur proof on the right side, no imperial firing proof, what looks like a Weimar firing proof. I wonder when this receiver was first assembled into a complete rifle, and even when it was given a serial #?
    John

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    mupples
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    Posted - 10/10/2004 : 12:32:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Just one for me, and sadly it's been sporterized:

    Schilling 1917 #4968a

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    David Murvihill
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    Posted - 10/12/2004 : 07:47:35 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote: David, the "S" is a mark noting it uses S cartridge/ammunition- it is a mark you will find on almost all Gewehr98's...; the "NJ/Turkey" amrkings are the import markings that were put on the rifle when imported into the US, it was imported from Turkey (most 1917 & 1918 MO's saw service in Turkey); not sure on the red stripe? (perhaps an image? Probably something it picked up while in Turk service).



    I think this worked: (My first picture). The shadow of the worn off part of the stripe is clearly visible when the full image is viewed.

    Download Attachment:
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    Thank you,
    Dave M.
    Collector of Uncle Sam's Fantastic Toys.
    (and Uncle Joe's, and Uncle Willie's, and Aunt Lizzie's, and...)
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    graf
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    Posted - 10/12/2004 : 10:35:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Got me... I have never seen similiar on a straight up Imperial rifle, so imo probably from it's Turk past or after?

    You might try the Turk forum?
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    avery53
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    62 Posts

    Posted - 10/18/2004 : 1:28:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have a Spandau 1914 serial# 3158. The suffix looks like a 4, possibly a g, not sure. Crown on the receiver.
    Every part on this rifle matches, even the screw #'s on the trigger guard are numbered correctly.
    The stock has FR over T and a G over T.
    Lots of other stamps and markings I have no idea what they mean.
    This is my first GEW 98, so I have no knowledge yet.
    Upper hand guard is missing, but other than that it's a neat old rifle. Not sporterized.
    If there is other info needed, just ask and I will look.
    avery53
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    graf
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    Posted - 10/24/2004 : 2:18:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Imaged is a "g" on a Spandau... is it like this?
    We have 14 Spandau up to "j" so if it might be beyond that pictures would be great!

    The random markings/proofs won't tell you much; unlike the 98k the frakturs don't tell a story. Can't track makers with them or date a rifle from them usually, sometimes if you have a good database you can find similarities between makers/years off the right receiver proofs- but nothing concrete!

    Sounds like you have a keeper!


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    quote:Originally posted by avery53

    I have a Spandau 1914 serial# 3158. The suffix looks like a 4, possibly a g, not sure. Crown on the receiver.
    Every part on this rifle matches, even the screw #'s on the trigger guard are numbered correctly.
    The stock has FR over T and a G over T.
    Lots of other stamps and markings I have no idea what they mean.
    This is my first GEW 98, so I have no knowledge yet.
    Upper hand guard is missing, but other than that it's a neat old rifle. Not sporterized.
    If there is other info needed, just ask and I will look.
    avery53

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    DaSwede
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    Posted - 10/27/2004 : 3:24:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    i picked up an odd one this weekend. the receiver is marked spandau 1899/16 and is marked on top of the receiver with the * above the crown. the gun is serial numbered 18xx over 1. i believe that this is not the original serial number of the gun, there are marks on the receiver that appear to obliterate another number. the barrel is marked with a large weimar eagle under the wood line. the receiver is marked with a WaA4 undr the wood line. the rear sight is s/42G marked. the stock appears to be converted from a Gew98 and is EWB marked and inletted to take a 98k bandspring. overall the gun is 98k length. i thought that stern gewehres were produced during ww1? were the stars also used on rebuild rifles? i can't even begin to guess how many times this one has been through the rebuild process.
    thanks
    rick
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 10/27/2004 : 5:53:22 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The original manufacture date was 1899. It was either rejected when initially made and sotred , then brought out and assembeld as a sterne gewehr in 1916 , or it received a through rebuild in 1916 and did not meet uniform specs and had to be marked as a sterne gewehr.
    Sometime post 1920 it was modified with the tangent sight , but before that happened it was in the hands of the EWB.
    I would be interested to see pics of barrel, band spring and front sight arrangements to see if it is a possible actual german conversion.If it was knocked down to 98k length the bolt should be turned down and stock inletted for it. If not the likelihood of this being a german conversion to 98k length is rather remote.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    graf
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    Posted - 10/28/2004 : 8:19:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Would be really cool if it is a 98k conversion!
    Bill, how many "legit" Gewehr98 to 98k conversions have you observed over the years?

    Rick, sounds like an interesting rifle, awhile back a friend picked up a 1907/20 Spandau stern gewehr (another salvaged receiver brought back during the war & re-issued post war), there is thread somewhere here on it.
    Love to see pics of it- even more so Bill's views on it! (not real easy to get Mauserbills attention these days!)
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    fireman
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    Posted - 11/06/2004 : 3:01:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    2 more observed,

    1905 Erfurt 9296 a

    1916 Spandau, not marked as a stern gewehr 8105 e or l.

    If some one can post an pic of a gothic e or l I ca confirm the letter block.
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/06/2004 : 6:16:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Rich; that 05 Erfurt is a new high, bumped it by 3600! (from 5673 a)...

    No "l" suffix but I have an "ee" range for Spandau I can upload on file. The high for 16 Spandau is up there! (52xx mm)

    Pics of the 05 Erfurt would be cool, or if not possible, how about details? Reworked/rearsenaled, unusual markings? Matching?


    quote:Originally posted by fireman

    2 more observed,

    1905 Erfurt 9296 a

    1916 Spandau, not marked as a stern gewehr 8105 e or l.

    If some one can post an pic of a gothic e or l I ca confirm the letter block.

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    Esquire
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    Posted - 11/06/2004 : 8:54:16 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Erfurt 1918 kar 98, s/n 1546. There is also stincled on the stock with white paint the number 339.
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    fireman
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    Posted - 11/06/2004 : 10:03:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Paul, Glad to be of help. I am sorry no pics. I did not buy either one as both were significantly altered.

    When I saw the first one I thought "bubba really screwed this up" An hour later I saw it again at a diffrent table, at least I thought it was the same one. Funny thing, diffrent dealers, table spread far apart and 2 identical "bubba" jobs.

    Both were k98 length with a k98 type front sight, S/42 marked tangent sights, black enamal finish, imperial stocks cut down between the rear sight and rear band. The hand gaurd was a small(about 3") with 3 lines on the top of it. One bolt was Imperial German and one had some marks I did not recognize, maybe Turkish? Neither was inletted for the turned down bolt. Maybe some sort of Turkish civil issue?

    Funny thing one guy wanted about $90 the other wanted $279!!
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    archie360
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    Posted - 11/19/2004 : 3:24:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Two more for ya...

    1916 DWM #1290gg
    1916 Oberndorf #7607n (turk)
    The smoke from that corrosive ammo you shoot will rust my rifle. Please move a few benches away from me.
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    JR115
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    Posted - 11/20/2004 : 3:21:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf:
    Sorry for the delay. No teasing, here she is!
    Best regards,
    WL

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    quote:Originally posted by graf

    Oh, you're teasing!!

    Would love to see the 1909 Spandau Kar98a! These Spandau 98a's are very rare & desirable, never actually seen one- they are that rare!

    The high (and only one reported in 1909) 1909 Spandau is #990. Spandau only made the Kar98a in 1908; 1909 & 1910- and never in significant numbers.


    quote:Originally posted by JR115

    Hello:
    Here are a couple more:
    Kar98a - Spandau 1909 #454 (1920 Reissue)
    Gew98 - Mauser Oberndorf 1917 #4396
    Best regards,
    WL


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    graf
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    Posted - 11/20/2004 : 9:11:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    That is awesome!

    This is the first one I have seen images of, heard of them before of course but first rate to see one finally. Too bad Weimar’d as that would hurt a bit $$ wise if you ever unloaded it… Don’t get me wrong, I do like these Weimar rework rifles; especially as on these rare variations/makers they are the only way I can afford them!

    I recently had the good fortune to buy a 1909/1920 Amberg (the current high actually) from MauserBill and in reality the only reason it panned out was because it was Weimar’d!
    If straight up Imperial Bill would never have cut it loose & if he did for some reason I would still have been way short $$ wise to have a shot at it.

    Thanks for the great images of it!
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    NavyGunner
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    Posted - 11/28/2004 : 2:59:27 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf, here's a few more for you.

    Mauser Oberndorf / 1916 SN 681h FB triangle Radom marked, converted to Kar98k in East Germany, dated 48 on receiver lug. I want to note that there is a K stamped between the Imperial acceptance mark and the serial number, is this a conversion designation?

    Mauser Oberndorf / 1916 SN 7906m standard Gew98 with blued receiver.

    DWM / 1917 SN 8320c standard Gew98 with bright receiver and Beech stock and handguard.


    NavyGunner

    I'm a political refugee from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts
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    geejams
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    Posted - 12/03/2004 : 9:07:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Newbie here, Hello everyone I went hunting early this week with a friend and guess what. noticed he has a GEW 98 sporter30-06. Me a 30-06 rem. BUT I fell in love with his rifle to the point of making a trade.Info on gun is as follow. sn: 5950, 3 crowns over 3 letters U,V,G? A 9-68 OR 8-68 ON LEFT OF RECIVER. FINALY A # 60u behind safety bolt action. Any info on this gun. please reply thanks !


    END PAGE 4
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    Start PAGE 5


    graf
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    Posted - 12/03/2004 : 10:46:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks NG!
    Gee, hard to decipher the information you provided... across the top of the receiver there should be a maker & a date of manufacture, you seem to have made note of the right receiver assembly proofs, besides that I can't quite figure out the details.


    quote:Originally posted by geejams

    Newbie here, Hello everyone I went hunting early this week with a friend and guess what. noticed he has a GEW 98 sporter30-06. Me a 30-06 rem. BUT I fell in love with his rifle to the point of making a trade.Info on gun is as follow. sn: 5950, 3 crowns over 3 letters U,V,G? A 9-68 OR 8-68 ON LEFT OF RECIVER. FINALY A # 60u behind safety bolt action. Any info on this gun. please reply thanks !






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    jwh2
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    Posted - 12/06/2004 : 11:42:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    geejams,

    It appears you have only part of a GEW98 that has been "sporterized" and rebarreled. The only thing that can be gleaned from the imformation you provided is the action is a GEW98 and it has the number 5950 stamped on it. The different number on the bolt part means it came from a different rifle.

    There were almost a dozen makers of GEW98 rifles in Germany. Each of on them used the same serial numbering system. Starting at 01 through 9999, then 01a through 9999a, then 01b through 9999b, etc., through the alphabet. They repeated it each year.

    The arsenal that built the rifle would have stamped their name and the year of manufacture on top of the receiver ring. For instance, "DANZIG, 1909" or Amberg, 1907", etc. And any one of them could have had a serial number of 5950 for any number of years, from 1898 through 1918.

    So, look on top of the receiver ring of your rifle and if someone hasn't ground it off, you should find the maker of your receiver and the year it was made.

    Hope this helps.

    Paul, I hope I didn't mess up you research too much with this.

    Joe
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    NavyGunner
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    Posted - 12/09/2004 : 12:43:09 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks NG!
    Gee, hard to decipher the information you provided... across the top of the receiver there should be a maker & a date of manufacture, you seem to have made note of the right receiver assembly proofs, besides that I can't quite figure out the details.

    Graf,
    Mauser Oberndorf 1916 S/N 681h ( Left side of the receiver ring is marked with Imperial acceptance mark then K681/h ). The K is a different font style so was it was added later as a conversion designation by the East Germans or added when the rifle went in polish service, any ideas? The FB in triangle Radom mark is on top of the receiver just above the Mauser name. It was converted into a Kar98k in East Germany, dated 48 on receiver lug. I previously posted pics of the rifle, but if you'd like I can take some more for you?

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    NavyGunner

    I'm a political refugee from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts
    Edited by - NavyGunner on 12/14/2004 6:59:28 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 12/19/2004 : 02:08:28 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks Joe- no harm done- getting to be a long thread!


    NG, I don't know squat about most post war alterations, can't see the markings on the pics you posted either?
    Wish I could help you here but I am pretty much sticking to "original" serial numbers & Imperial/Weimar German done variations for this project...
    There are just too many post war altered variations out there for me to keep an interest in following them!
    I only keep records of them if the receiver markings are still Imperial German applied.
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    Burrfoot
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    Posted - 12/21/2004 : 11:00:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hello,

    One gew98 here.

    Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916 5204a

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    graf
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    Posted - 12/22/2004 : 05:35:23 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks, yours is the lowest observed serial number for that mfg/date- the highest in well into the "h" range (only one maker that year produced less- Simson)


    quote:Originally posted by Burrfoot

    Hello,

    One gew98 here.

    Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916 5204a


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    NavyGunner
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    Posted - 12/22/2004 : 6:53:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf,
    Thanks for looking at the Gew 98 - Kar98k. I found one with the same markings in Backbone of the Whermacht.

    I posted pics of 2 Gewehr 1898 Modified that I recently picked up.

    One is a Zn marked Spandau 1917/26 double date, s/n 2189. It also has the Siemens & Halske sub contract mark on the bottom of the receiver.

    The other has just 1920 and the proof and acceptance marks on the receiver ring. It doesn't appear to have been ground to remove the crown and arsenal name. The s/n is 2043a. Have you seen any others like that?
    NavyGunner

    I'm a political refugee from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts
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    graf
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    Posted - 12/22/2004 : 9:12:13 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    NG;
    I have been on the road allot lately & initially missed your posts, but I eventually saw the threads.

    I couldn't add to what was posted by others- except that Siemens & Halske as well as Bayard did make some receivers for Spandau during the war. (apparently only Spandau as I have only seen these logos on Spandau receivers to date- as I recall 1917 mostly)

    It had been discussed before a while back...

    Regarding the Zn marking Wapruf2 knows as much as anyone & had a thread going if I recall clearly? Not sure where that lead?
    I have only seen a very few of these- all similarly marked Zn or DZ & marked with the rebuild date (so far I have only seen 1924 & 1926 dated- unfortunately when I started my database, I didn’t record the markings, or even additional dates in the folder title so for me to search for specific marking such as DZ or Zn I have to view each folder, so I could have further examples but not be aware of it)

    Regarding the unmarked variation no I have not seen any more of these (just yours & the other one recently displayed on one of the boards), probably a salvage of some sort, the German’s were fond of using what was on hand in an emergency.
    Did that EWB stock match? What matched on that rifle?
    I suggest you let Peter Kuck have a look at it as you guys live so close, he is very knowledgeable- plus if you buy him lunch he may let you in his bunker for a viewing! (been there twice & worth the trip alone!)


    quote:Originally posted by NavyGunner

    Graf,
    Thanks for looking at the Gew 98 - Kar98k. I found one with the same markings in Backbone of the Whermacht.

    I posted pics of 2 Gewehr 1898 Modified that I recently picked up.

    One is a Zn marked Spandau 1917/26 double date, s/n 2189. It also has the Siemens & Halske sub contract mark on the bottom of the receiver.

    The other has just 1920 and the proof and acceptance marks on the receiver ring. It doesn't appear to have been ground to remove the crown and arsenal name. The s/n is 2043a. Have you seen any others like that?


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    nucchem
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    Posted - 01/09/2005 : 8:21:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graf, I have a gewehr 98 with the following on it.
    DEUTCHEWAFFEN-UND
    MUNUTIONS FABEIKEN
    BERLIN
    1917
    Where will I find the serial number. I am new to this. The weapon I have was given to me by my grandfather who servered in WWI. Have have just about finished the restoration. Next is to test fire it. What other information can I provide you.

    Nucchem
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    peterkuck
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    Posted - 01/09/2005 : 10:11:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit peterkuck's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf
    I am familiar with both of these rifles
    "Thanks for looking at the Gew 98 - Kar98k. I found one with the same markings in Backbone of the Whermacht.

    I posted pics of 2 Gewehr 1898 Modified that I recently picked up.

    "One is a Zn marked Spandau 1917/26 double date, s/n 2189. It also has the Siemens & Halske sub contract mark on the bottom of the receiver.

    The other has just 1920 and the proof and acceptance marks on the receiver ring. It doesn't appear to have been ground to remove the crown and arsenal name. The s/n is 2043a. Have you seen any others like that?"
    I know how had owned them - They are mismatched but very interesting as was the 1933 standad modell that he acquired at the same time. He did get them for a good price.

    regards
    peter
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/10/2005 : 12:47:45 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Nucchem; the picture I have attached shows the serial number off a DWM I own (8899 e) yours should be similarly marked (the serial is on the left side of the receiver.)
    Information desired is the serial number & mfg/date primarily, however details of anything unusual is also of interest (any special markings, alterations, evidence of rebuild etc...)
    I want to compile a database as comprehensive as possible.





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    quote:Originally posted by nucchem

    graf, I have a gewehr 98 with the following on it.
    DEUTCHEWAFFEN-UND
    MUNUTIONS FABEIKEN
    BERLIN
    1917
    Where will I find the serial number. I am new to this. The weapon I have was given to me by my grandfather who servered in WWI. Have have just about finished the restoration. Next is to test fire it. What other information can I provide you.

    Nucchem

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    dcj28
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    Posted - 01/20/2005 : 8:04:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have a Spandau 1913, Ser 3434 d. Being new to all of this and to Mauser, can someone offer me the name of the best book for identifying all of these markings? I have some catch up to do.

    Also on the barrel directly in front of the receiver ring is the marking 7.91. I was under the impression that this was the caliber, yet no one talks about 7.91, what have I got here? Why does it not have 7.92 stamped on it?

    Thanks Dave
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/22/2005 : 12:30:22 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Dave, if you could image that rifle I would like to see it as that would be a new high for 1913 Spandau- currently its 7984 c- so a good jump!
    The bore measurement is for an armorer to measure wear & can be +/- .02 mm (I have seen 7.90 through 7.93).

    Probably the best book in print is John Walters (dated but still as accurate as any in print) "The German Rifle" or his "Central Powers Small Arms of World War One" which essentially just reprints his rifle section.
    Olson’s "Mauser Bolt Rifles" is also good but covers too much ground to be very useful. If money is no object buy Ball book on Military Mauser Rifles & Gotz's on German rifles too...

    Truly the best way to catch up is to review past threads here & ask questions as there is far more information on this site than anywhere in a book- unfortunately!


    quote:Originally posted by dcj28

    I have a Spandau 1913, Ser 3434 d. Being new to all of this and to Mauser, can someone offer me the name of the best book for identifying all of these markings? I have some catch up to do.

    Also on the barrel directly in front of the receiver ring is the marking 7.91. I was under the impression that this was the caliber, yet no one talks about 7.91, what have I got here? Why does it not have 7.92 stamped on it?

    Thanks Dave

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    type99
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    Posted - 01/23/2005 : 07:44:32 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hello...

    I have a Danzig 1917. All matching parts. Battle scarred (even has shrapnel in stock). Stock broken through the wrist with a stout field-type repair which does not affect shooting. Serial number is 2740 with what appears to be small script letter "s". But not sure on the suffix.

    Marked large "B" on buttstock, as well as a large "G". Does anyone know what the "G" might signify.

    I'll try to post pictures of receiver, but right now I am having a hard time figuring out how to insert image files.
    Gary
    Gary
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    type99
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    Posted - 01/23/2005 : 07:57:05 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply


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    graf
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    Posted - 01/23/2005 : 2:50:34 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the excellent pic to go with your data, yes I believe that is an "s" (interestingly enough Danzig on some pre-war Gewehr98's used the standard "s" rather than this incursive "s"- hard to tell when they changed though.)
    Also interesting is we have a rifle only 1040 rifles off from yours in the database, very close when dealing with such large numbers made!

    Regarding the butt markings, others covered your "B" marking for beech, I didn't see a "G" marking on the rifle, but I am assuming one of the right buttstock proofs?
    There is usually a cypher/crowned FW & a couple inspection stamps there if your stock is "original" to the rifle (they vary some, though a crowned M is often seen for Danzig- not always) I have never read where someone has attributed a special meaning to these markings, other than inspection stamps.
    If you have a "G" elsewhere than the right butt, image it & we will see if we can track it down.


    quote:Originally posted by type99

    Hello...

    I have a Danzig 1917. All matching parts. Battle scarred (even has shrapnel in stock). Stock broken through the wrist with a stout field-type repair which does not affect shooting. Serial number is 2740 with what appears to be small script letter "s". But not sure on the suffix.

    Marked large "B" on buttstock, as well as a large "G". Does anyone know what the "G" might signify.

    I'll try to post pictures of receiver, but right now I am having a hard time figuring out how to insert image files.
    Gary

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    Peter in CA
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    Posted - 01/30/2005 : 3:10:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here is my one and only (so far);
    Mauser 1917, 3335 m

    Peter
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/30/2005 : 5:50:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Peter; give us some details... is it Turked? If matching what kind of stock does it have? We have a couple maple stocks observed in 1917 MO production.

    Thanks for the serial!

    quote:Originally posted by Peter in CA

    Here is my one and only (so far);
    Mauser 1917, 3335 m

    Peter

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    DMinFla
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    Posted - 01/30/2005 : 6:23:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here is my one and only GEW 98 rifle info.DMinFla

    1917 C.G.Haenel Suhl ser# 6343
    Go here to enter your info for the
    Survey on the MAS 1944,49 and 49/56 rifles
    http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topi...TOPIC_ID=95237

    The Adventure Team 1970-1976

    Edited by - DMinFla on 01/30/2005 6:27:37 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/30/2005 : 10:02:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Does it have a suffix? (letter below the serial?)

    Thanks!


    quote:Originally posted by DMinFla

    Here is my one and only GEW 98 rifle info.DMinFla

    1917 C.G.Haenel Suhl ser# 6343

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    dcj28
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    Posted - 01/31/2005 : 10:25:00 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf your DWM (8899 e)that you posted with a pic has a stamp on the left. What does that stamp mean? I have looked in a few books and have not found it yet. My Spandau 1913 has it as well.





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    quote:Originally posted by nucchem

    graf, I have a gewehr 98 with the following on it.
    DEUTCHEWAFFEN-UND
    MUNUTIONS FABEIKEN
    BERLIN
    1917
    Where will I find the serial number. I am new to this. The weapon I have was given to me by my grandfather who servered in WWI. Have have just about finished the restoration. Next is to test fire it. What other information can I provide you.

    Nucchem


    [/quote]
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    Peter in CA
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    Posted - 01/31/2005 : 11:06:59 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graf,
    The Mauser 1917 is definately Turked. The barrel has the Turkish numbers on it that are different numbers than the receiver serial number. The rifle is a total mismatch. Bolt body is not numbered, but various parts of the bolt are numbered 18530.
    The stock has an Imperial stamp on it, but it is hard to make out. The wood is something like walnut, but it is quite light, weight wise. I got a Czech vz98 at the same time that has a beech stock and the beech stock is quite a bit heavier than the Mauser stock.
    It is a Navy Arms import, marked "N.A. Ridgefield", then "CAL 8MM TURKEY" in small letters on the receiver.

    Peter
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/31/2005 : 12:56:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    It's the fire proof or power proof as some books call it, nearly all Gewehr98's will have it (don't know why some don't, but seen a couple like the 1902 DWM I have, perhaps Bill can chime in on that?) it represents the rifle passed a test firing with an overpowered cartridge.


    [quote]Originally posted by dcj28

    Graf your DWM (8899 e)that you posted with a pic has a stamp on the left. What does that stamp mean? I have looked in a few books and have not found it yet. My Spandau 1913 has it as well.



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    graf
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    Posted - 01/31/2005 : 1:07:38 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the details!

    quote:Originally posted by Peter in CA

    graf,
    The Mauser 1917 is definately Turked. The barrel has the Turkish numbers on it that are different numbers than the receiver serial number. The rifle is a total mismatch. Bolt body is not numbered, but various parts of the bolt are numbered 18530.
    The stock has an Imperial stamp on it, but it is hard to make out. The wood is something like walnut, but it is quite light, weight wise. I got a Czech vz98 at the same time that has a beech stock and the beech stock is quite a bit heavier than the Mauser stock.
    It is a Navy Arms import, marked "N.A. Ridgefield", then "CAL 8MM TURKEY" in small letters on the receiver.

    Peter

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    dcj28
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    Posted - 01/31/2005 : 4:04:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf, sorry I missed the request for pics on the 1913 Spandau 3434d. I will get some pics off to you this week.
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    DMinFla
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    Posted - 01/31/2005 : 4:45:16 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    There is a small a under the ser#.DMinFla




    quote:Originally posted by graf

    Does it have a suffix? (letter below the serial?)

    Thanks!


    quote:Originally posted by DMinFla

    Here is my one and only GEW 98 rifle info.DMinFla

    1917 C.G.Haenel Suhl ser# 6343


    Go here to enter your info for the
    Survey on the MAS 1944,49 and 49/56 rifles
    http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topi...TOPIC_ID=95237

    The Adventure Team 1970-1976

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    graf
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    Posted - 01/31/2005 : 4:57:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Sounds good, it would be a new high serial for that maker/date. I have it penciled in, but on new highs especially I like to have a confirmation if at all possible.

    Thanks!


    quote:Originally posted by dcj28

    Graf, sorry I missed the request for pics on the 1913 Spandau 3434d. I will get some pics off to you this week.

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    Peter in CA
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    Posted - 02/01/2005 : 3:59:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graf,
    How could I tell that my 1917 MO's stock was Maple?
    It does not look like my Walnut stocks and is much lighter, weightwise, than a Beech stock. It has one Imperial stamp, very faint, under the butt, with what looks to be a "B" under a crown. It is definately not Beech. No serial number in the barrel channel.
    The handguard, which appears to be the same wood, is quite thin compared to a Walnut and Beech handguard.

    Thanks.

    Peter
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    dcj28
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    Posted - 02/01/2005 : 6:32:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf, 1913 Spandau 3434d. It is apart for cleaning everything is numberd 3434.

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    graf
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    Posted - 02/01/2005 : 11:16:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    You have a fine rifle there! (also a new "known" high for 1913 Spandau)looks quite right to me.
    Not everyone has a pre-war Gewehr98 still in Imperial trim! (1913 is somewhat of a scarce year too... all the arsenals made them and MO too, but we have examples for only Spandau & MO! You have a keeper for sure!)

    quote:Originally posted by dcj28

    Graf, 1913 Spandau 3434d. It is apart for cleaning everything is numberd 3434.


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    7 Cav
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    Posted - 02/04/2005 : 01:01:06 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Israeli GEW 98 Oberndorf # 1780.The date is 1917.Would like to post pics but this won't let me.
    Garryowen
    Garryowen
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    graf
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    Posted - 02/04/2005 : 12:31:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks; is there a letter under the #1780? give us some details... is it Turked? If matching what kind of stock does it have? (an "A" or a "B" on the buttstock?) any unusual markings?

    The picture might be too large; either send it to me at [email protected] or try & lower the size with a photo editor, (I usually crop the photo some or change the type, so as not to loose resolution & to keep a good size as a picture with no clarity is next to worthless).


    quote:Originally posted by 7 Cav

    Israeli GEW 98 Oberndorf # 1780.The date is 1917.Would like to post pics but this won't let me.
    Garryowen

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    dcj28
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    Posted - 02/04/2005 : 1:53:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Cav I had the same problem with pics. I had to reduce the pixel count on my camera and the sensitivity level. It did not effect the outcome.
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    Peter in CA
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    Posted - 02/10/2005 : 11:19:06 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graf,
    Okay, here is my newest one ( and definately not the last one):

    Spandau 1916 "Stern"
    This thing has 3 serial numbers on it.
    First number is 9541 n. Very deep and bold firing firing proof next to it, slighly different shape than my Mauser 1917 proof.
    Second number is 7339 then a 2 under the 7339. The 7339 and the 2 are leaning at about a 30 degree angle to the right. Navy Arms put a small stamped 'F' in front of this number for their serial number.
    Third number is stamped on the rear receiver bridge '3289'. Probably the Turk number.
    No numbers on the barrel.
    There appears to be 2 sets of acceptance stamps on the right side of the receiver, an older fainter set of 3 over a newer, smaller, more deeply struck set of 2.
    The GEW 98 on the receiver side rail is very heavily stamped, thick Olde German letters. Not at all like the script GEW 98 on my Mauser.
    No other numbers match. Turk bolt. Beech late pattern stock.
    Thought you might like to know.

    Peter in CA
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    graf
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    Posted - 02/11/2005 : 01:30:27 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Sounds interesting, but what is it's original serial? Can you do images of the rifle?

    Erfurt wartime produced Gewehr98's maybe the most famous/known for stern gewehr use, but from observations Spandau (in 1916 especially) has the most observed, interesting rifles for sure!




    quote:Originally posted by Peter in CA

    graf,
    Okay, here is my newest one ( and definately not the last one):

    Spandau 1916 "Stern"
    This thing has 3 serial numbers on it.
    First number is 9541 n. Very deep and bold firing firing proof next to it, slighly different shape than my Mauser 1917 proof.
    Second number is 7339 then a 2 under the 7339. The 7339 and the 2 are leaning at about a 30 degree angle to the right. Navy Arms put a small stamped 'F' in front of this number for their serial number.
    Third number is stamped on the rear receiver bridge '3289'. Probably the Turk number.
    No numbers on the barrel.
    There appears to be 2 sets of acceptance stamps on the right side of the receiver, an older fainter set of 3 over a newer, smaller, more deeply struck set of 2.
    The GEW 98 on the receiver side rail is very heavily stamped, thick Olde German letters. Not at all like the script GEW 98 on my Mauser.
    No other numbers match. Turk bolt. Beech late pattern stock.
    Thought you might like to know.

    Peter in CA

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    Peter in CA
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    Posted - 02/11/2005 : 12:16:22 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graf,
    The original serial number of the 'stern' Spandau 1916 is 9541 n.
    The slanted 7339 over 2 is to the right of the original number.
    The 'star' is of the elongated diamond type, not the one that looks like an asterisk.

    I will certainly try to get an image or two.

    Peter
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    MarkRKelley
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    Posted - 02/17/2005 : 07:31:28 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Spandau 1914 SN 4617. The suffix is hard for me to figure out. I can't tell if it is a script "a" or "g."
    No I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I, I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts. IT WASN'T MY FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD.
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    graf
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    Posted - 02/17/2005 : 2:03:29 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    top a "a" bottom an "g"

    Can you do pics? The 1914 production is pretty cool to see, a lot were supposedly made in 1914 but surprisingly few show up these days from my observations.



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    quote:Originally posted by MarkRKelley

    Spandau 1914 SN 4617. The suffix is hard for me to figure out. I can't tell if it is a script "a" or "g."

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    Edited by - graf on 02/17/2005 8:19:30 PM
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    ANDREY
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    Posted - 03/01/2005 : 03:54:53 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Got two:
    - Mauser Oberndorf 1917 #3040 (gew 98)arched sight.
    - DWM Berlin 1915 #8456 (gew 98) flat sight; Marked S/42K and three p74 stamps under sight on right side.
    Also got an Argentina engineer carabine DWM 1909 #B6550.

    Hope this helps. Best Regards, A

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    ANDREY
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    Posted - 03/01/2005 : 03:59:48 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Sorry, forgot to mention: Used to have a 1908 Spandau (don't recall the #) In very very bad shape, pitted almost beyond recognition. I used it for parts and sold the barrel/receiver unit at a garage sale for 20 bucks.
    Best Regards, A
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    graf
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    Posted - 03/01/2005 : 11:51:11 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    A; Thanks for the serial numbers, do either have a letter under the serial number? Is the 17 Mauser Oberndorf Turked or is it in original condition? If original what kind of buttstock proofs does it have? (look half way down the forum for "Gewehr 98 with Ahornholz stock"- anyone with a “A” marked stock would be great to hear from, especially with pictures.

    Too bad on the 08 Spandau as that is a hole in the database, none were expected to exist for that year from Spandau, would be something if one could be identified.
    You sure it was a 08 Spandau? Previous research has been shown to be wrong before, 1914 Danzig (98a) was for a longtime thought not to exist either but just in the last couple years 2 have shown up.

    Thanks!







    quote:Originally posted by ANDREY

    Got two:
    - Mauser Oberndorf 1917 #3040 (gew 98)arched sight.
    - DWM Berlin 1915 #8456 (gew 98) flat sight; Marked S/42K and three p74 stamps under sight on right side.
    Also got an Argentina engineer carabine DWM 1909 #B6550.

    Hope this helps. Best Regards, A


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    ANDREY
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    Posted - 03/02/2005 : 03:20:42 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi there;
    The 1917 Mauser has a bolt with what looks like turkish markings to me...The stock has (on the right side) the mauser trademark stamp, above that what looks like a larel leaf crown, above that a metal identification disc (blank, original seems to have been removed). On the bottom, under the rear sling attachement #12265 and under that again the same laurel leaf crown. On the breach and barrel, under the serial number i got what looks like a stylised (wavy) letter n.
    The 1915 DWM has no letter under the serial#. What does the S/42K (under the rear sight on the right) stand for?
    I found the bolt of the 1908 Spandau; has serial#5476 with stylised (wavy) letter a. I also found the stock, it has a metal "bolt-taeapart" hole and apears to have some four digit # stamped on the bottom but it's illegible. This rifle was relly in bad shape, looked like it had been lying in some field for a couple years. But i'm pretty sure it was dated 1908.
    Hope this helps.
    Brgds, A
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    miguel pouget
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    Posted - 04/13/2005 : 3:15:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    Anybody knows what's the meaning of the initials KBE in the Gew 98 stock ?
    I can send photographs.
    Thanks
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    graf
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    Posted - 04/27/2005 : 4:19:54 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Post an image if you can?



    quote:Originally posted by miguel pouget


    Anybody knows what's the meaning of the initials KBE in the Gew 98 stock ?
    I can send photographs.
    Thanks

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    drifter mike
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    Posted - 04/28/2005 : 2:12:54 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    GEW 98 by DWM dated 1916 serial No. 7862U non matching bolt, everything else matches
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/01/2005 : 4:58:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the details & confirming the serial- we need all the help we can get, the new website Mike Steves & I started is helping but I know there are future new highs out there!

    Please report your serial numbers- especially pre-1915 or the 1915 start ups (CG Haenel, VC Schilling, Simson, JP Sauer & Oberspree/Kornbusch)



    quote:Originally posted by drifter mike

    GEW 98 by DWM dated 1916 serial No. 7862U non matching bolt, everything else matches

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    Razor
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    Posted - 05/04/2005 : 12:36:19 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1916 Oberndorf..# E 4650 "t" unnumbered (ground) bolt but with 3 imperial proofs ...
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    cwolf
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    Posted - 05/10/2005 : 5:34:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have a kar 98 / Amberg 1909, #2549. It also has the initials EWB branded in the right side of the butt stock. Along with that it has a few other markings. A lion with a sword is on the front left of the reciever, RSS with crowns on it is on the right front of the reciever, I have the sling, and the bayonet for it. I was just wondering if anyone had some information on it
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/10/2005 : 11:43:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Very cool!

    Yours would be the lowest observed; we only have 3 in the files (MauserBill has one in the 7000 block & I have the "known high" 1909.20 Amberg ser. 548 a, would greatly like to see images of your rifle if you have that ability?
    Yours is the first 98a I have reports of with the EWB markings so it is of great interest to me!
    Heard of them naturally but no observed examples to date!

    What information are you after? Sounds good from your description.


    quote:Originally posted by cwolf

    I have a kar 98 / Amberg 1909, #2549. It also has the initials EWB branded in the right side of the butt stock. Along with that it has a few other markings. A lion with a sword is on the front left of the reciever, RSS with crowns on it is on the right front of the reciever, I have the sling, and the bayonet for it. I was just wondering if anyone had some information on it

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    jacobtowne
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    Posted - 05/15/2005 : 10:47:01 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Posted - 07/22/2004 : 6:00:25 PM
    Interesting, can you do pics?

    The serial 9712 1 (is that an L or a 1?) I suspect an L as no DWM stern gewehr is "known" and as it is pre-war that is also a little unusual (only one other pre-war stern gewehr is known by me).
    Currently 1907 DWM high serial is 5944 e so either way this would be an interesting rifle to verify!

    Thanks

    quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

    DWM 1907 SN 9712-1. Shortened to 98k after WWI. Captured by Soviets in WWII.
    JT

    Graf:
    Please pardon the ten-month delay. I totally forgot about this survey. I've a Gewehr 98 by Mauser on the way - should be here tomorrow or Tues.- and reread the survey posts to learn more. That's when I discovered the posts above.
    Here are some photos of the 1907 DWM. The suffix looks like a '1' to me, but I'll let you decide. I've been told that the S/42 on the right side of the barrel signifies modification by the Mauser factory. Correct?



    Download Attachment:
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    JT

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    graf
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    Posted - 05/15/2005 : 11:44:49 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    JT;
    Your right its a "1" and it was a sterngewehr, the star on the receiver is proof enough of that; this is the second early Gewehr98 that was assembled as a sterngewehr (we have discussed a 1907/1920 Spandau as well on this forum- possibly in this thread) by far most are wartime rifles but apparently some were salvaged older receivers too by the proof of your rifle & Joe's Spandau)
    These salvaged receivers (imo) lends credence to the theory these were done by smaller firms, and not by the original makers- much variations can be seen in these rifle markings- some really nicely marked & some a bit less time taken with them. If enough of these can be compared we might get somewhere on that theory.

    The tangent rear sight & the Mauser markings means it was done 1935 or after but not necessarily by Mauser Oberndorf (some say it does but I think that MO only provided the parts)- I am sure they did some of these upgrades too but not all of them. This seems a common debate among the more experienced collectors; I tend to follow MauserBill's view that the sights were made by Mauser but not necessarily all the modifications were done by them.

    This is converted to 98k length & is an rc? Is the receiver serialed with the same serial? I would imagine so as it looks right to me...

    Thanks for sharing the pictures of your interesting rifle; I know I’m not the only one that appreciates seeing it! These sterngewehrs are darn interesting!


    quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

    Posted - 07/22/2004 : 6:00:25 PM
    Interesting, can you do pics?

    The serial 9712 1 (is that an L or a 1?) I suspect an L as no DWM stern gewehr is "known" and as it is pre-war that is also a little unusual (only one other pre-war stern gewehr is known by me).
    Currently 1907 DWM high serial is 5944 e so either way this would be an interesting rifle to verify!

    Thanks

    quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

    DWM 1907 SN 9712-1. Shortened to 98k after WWI. Captured by Soviets in WWII.
    JT

    Graf:
    Please pardon the ten-month delay. I totally forgot about this survey. I've a Gewehr 98 by Mauser on the way - should be here tomorrow or Tues.- and reread the survey posts to learn more. That's when I discovered the posts above.
    Here are some photos of the 1907 DWM. The suffix looks like a '1' to me, but I'll let you decide. I've been told that the S/42 on the right side of the barrel signifies modification by the Mauser factory. Correct?



    JT

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    jacobtowne
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    Posted - 05/15/2005 : 12:04:55 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf:
    It is RC and converted to 98k barrel length. The identical SN appears on the left of the receiver ring, just aft of the eagle in the first photo.
    The two SN stamps look the same, which leads me to suspect that the receiver and barrel are both original. All other parts, of course, are a mixed grill.
    JT

    BTW: Thanks for the link to your website. Great information. I'll post the info. on the Gew. 98 after it arrives, but I suspect it's just a garden variety 1915 't' series Mauser.

    Also, are the results of this survey available, or are you still tabulating the information?

    Edited by - jacobtowne on 05/15/2005 12:17:15 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/15/2005 : 1:55:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for rest of the story- interesting rifle.
    Glad the website helps, it is basically just a re-hash of two articles I wrote for the MRJ but shortened/edited a bit; if I can ever get off my keester I will get more pictures to Mike for it, eventually I want to have receiver shots of each maker & a few short articles for some of the more interesting variations.
    The database is eventually going to be used for a book or at least a pamphlet on the subject so although I have shared it with several other serious collectors I don't want to put it on a public venue yet- that plus much of the serial data is a product of the KCN and there are copyright issues I suspect.
    About half of the serial number observations are from the KCN, if I were to publish such a database I would have to either get permission from Mark Wieringa/Chris Cox or use only my observed high serials and that would suck as that would leave several large holes (especially pre-war).

    If your after something in particular I will try & help answer your question, I have a huge database on Imperial rifles & tidbits of wisdom from most of the serious collectors over the last 3-5 years- especially MauserBill so if I don't know the answer I can almost always find an answer in my files...



    quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

    Graf:
    It is RC and converted to 98k barrel length. The identical SN appears on the left of the receiver ring, just aft of the eagle in the first photo.
    The two SN stamps look the same, which leads me to suspect that the receiver and barrel are both original. All other parts, of course, are a mixed grill.
    JT

    BTW: Thanks for the link to your website. Great information. I'll post the info. on the Gew. 98 after it arrives, but I suspect it's just a garden variety 1915 't' series Mauser.

    Also, are the results of this survey available, or are you still tabulating the information?


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    jacobtowne
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    Posted - 05/16/2005 : 07:55:52 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    So, does the '1' suffix serve the same purpose as letter suffixes, i.e. a new SN range? Is this common to these early examples?
    JT
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    K98a Man
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    Posted - 05/16/2005 : 12:05:27 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi All,I am new to this forum. I have been reading it on and off for awhile and find it very interesting and informative. I just recently obtained a 1909 Spandau K98a. All matching except bolt which matches itself. There are no Weimar re-stamps or import marks. Looks to be straight up Imperial German. Lots of typical German proofs on stock and metal. Serial no. is 818x. Came with original muzzle cover also. Anybody know how to get the muzzle cover on, it seems very tight.
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/16/2005 : 1:51:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    You push it in & turn- it can only go on one way (from the left side of the muzzle) Its spring loaded & sometimes they may be a bit tight, might try to lubricate it first if especially uncooperative.



    quote:Originally posted by K98a Man

    Hi All,I am new to this forum. I have been reading it on and off for awhile and find it very interesting and informative. I just recently obtained a 1909 Spandau K98a. All matching except bolt which matches itself. There are no Weimar re-stamps or import marks. Looks to be straight up Imperial German. Lots of typical German proofs on stock and metal. Serial no. is 818x. Came with original muzzle cover also. Anybody know how to get the muzzle cover on, it seems very tight.

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    graf
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    Posted - 05/16/2005 : 2:05:55 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Yes, the same purpose, the highest I have seen is a "5" and although Erfurt is more "known or thought of" as a basis for a sterngewehr, Spandau is by far the most seen from my limited observations- there are examples for most of the makers so it isn't a thing limited to one maker or another.
    Like I said earlier yours is only the second one I have seen that used an earlier rejected receiver for such use- Joe has the other & it was discussed at length earlier (do a search for Spandau & sterngewehr and you'll probably pull it up- it was a 1907/1920 Spandau receiver)
    The earliest "reported" sterngewehr beside your two examples is a 1915 Mauser Oberndorf, most by far are 1916 dated.



    quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

    So, does the '1' suffix serve the same purpose as letter suffixes, i.e. a new SN range? Is this common to these early examples?
    JT

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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 05/16/2005 : 9:56:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf ; the date is almost irrelevant regarding sterne gewehrs. There were no sterne gewehrs previous to 1915.The sterne gewehr was a wartime necessity to allow more rifles to flow to the troops as fast as possible. Hence the allowance of off spec hand fitted rifles into the stream - and so marked to at least make them more user friendly on a maintenance/repair level with the heads up of potential tolerance variations.
    The germans being frugal saved large quantities of prewar material that did not pass peacetime standards. As well some weapons that when repaired could not be made to "pattern specs" were sterne gewehr marked. This rifle could be a earlier rejected or refurbished rifle that was given the sterne gewehr marking during the war for above reasons given.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    K98a Man
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    Posted - 05/17/2005 : 09:25:24 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi Guys, yesterday I posted some info on a Kar98a rifle I recently bought. The only other WW1 period mauser I have is a J P Sauer GEW 98. I aquired this from an older gentleman who likes 1903's a lot more. Mostly matching except floorplate,cleaning rod and bolt. Rifle is dated 1916. Ser.#7120.
    It is not Turked and bolt,receiver,buttplate are correctly in the white. Front band is patina brown. Love that term. I would like to get a cleaning rod and florrplate to match. These 2 items would have to be marked 20. The rod I have now is white and is marked 11, floorplate is marked crown over 01. Can anybody help? Thanx.
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/17/2005 : 12:24:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    What's the suffix (letter under the serial number if it has one?)
    I checked my parts & no #20 floorplate; MauserBill is the man with the rods, he has more than anyone I know- probably more than everyone I know put together!
    Both are fairly hard parts to get nice- I have half a dozen floorplate spares but they are hard to find nice- rods even harder, if you can find one with a nice clear serial then its bent or the threads are ducked up...



    quote:Originally posted by K98a Man

    Hi Guys, yesterday I posted some info on a Kar98a rifle I recently bought. The only other WW1 period mauser I have is a J P Sauer GEW 98. I aquired this from an older gentleman who likes 1903's a lot more. Mostly matching except floorplate,cleaning rod and bolt. Rifle is dated 1916. Ser.#7120.
    It is not Turked and bolt,receiver,buttplate are correctly in the white. Front band is patina brown. Love that term. I would like to get a cleaning rod and florrplate to match. These 2 items would have to be marked 20. The rod I have now is white and is marked 11, floorplate is marked crown over 01. Can anybody help? Thanx.

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    graf
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    Posted - 05/17/2005 : 12:32:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Yes, I'm sure your right- glad you elaborated further on the subject!


    quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe

    Graf ; the date is almost irrelevant regarding sterne gewehrs. There were no sterne gewehrs previous to 1915.The sterne gewehr was a wartime necessity to allow more rifles to flow to the troops as fast as possible. Hence the allowance of off spec hand fitted rifles into the stream - and so marked to at least make them more user friendly on a maintenance/repair level with the heads up of potential tolerance variations.
    The germans being frugal saved large quantities of prewar material that did not pass peacetime standards. As well some weapons that when repaired could not be made to "pattern specs" were sterne gewehr marked. This rifle could be a earlier rejected or refurbished rifle that was given the sterne gewehr marking during the war for above reasons given.

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    K98a Man
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    Posted - 05/17/2005 : 2:58:26 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Under the serial # it looks like a lower case cursive s. There is no suffix letter after the serial #.
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    jacobtowne
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    Posted - 05/17/2005 : 6:03:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf:
    Here's the info on my new Gew. 98. It's Mauser Oberndorf, 1915,
    SN 5638t. Matching except for cleaning rod. Came with orig. sling (broken) which I thought I could do something with, but the leather is too far gone. Looks like a repro. will have to do.
    There are no unusual marks that I can find.
    JT
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/17/2005 : 8:18:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    That is the suffix; your rifle is 1916 JP Sauer Ser. 7120 s (Sauer used the incursive "s" in 1916 for sure- MauserBill has or use to own one fairly close to yours in the same "7000 s" block)


    quote:Originally posted by K98a Man

    Under the serial # it looks like a lower case cursive s. There is no suffix letter after the serial #.

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    graf
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    Posted - 05/17/2005 : 8:42:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    JT, thanks for the details!

    I have had the same issues with slings- I have more broken slings
    than complete ones- seemed a bargain at the time but now???

    I like the wartime "non-turked" Mauser Oberndorf Gewehr98's, -not as commonly seen in real nice original condition, as the production numbers would suggest.


    quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

    Graf:
    Here's the info on my new Gew. 98. It's Mauser Oberndorf, 1915,
    SN 5638t. Matching except for cleaning rod. Came with orig. sling (broken) which I thought I could do something with, but the leather is too far gone. Looks like a repro. will have to do.
    There are no unusual marks that I can find.
    JT

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    K98a Man
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    Posted - 05/21/2005 : 6:34:13 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply


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    Hi All, here are some pictures of my two Imperial Mausers. One is 1909 Spandau K98a m/m bolt. Everything else matching. No 1920 re-stamp. Other one is 1916 Sauer, bolt m/m. Origanal sling that took quite awhile to locate. Yes, I have a K98k sling on 98a, I just hate a rifle without a sling on it!
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/22/2005 : 1:16:58 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I know the Spandau is awesome as you sent me nice pictures of it (can't be two out there with that close in serial numbers & that picture confirms it- same resolution...)
    Undoubtedly the nicest I’ve seen pictures of (and the current high), never seen one in the flesh unfortunately & it's the only one I am missing for my "set" of pre-war makers as I have all 3 of the other makers, all 1909 production (1909/1920 Amberg; 1909 Erfurt & 1909 Danzig I already have).
    Anyway, the JP Sauer looks good too from what can be seen of it, got yourself a nice set there!
    The 98a sling is definitely not the easiest thing to find, a fellow from the Netherlands (I think) found a couple in a batch of 98k slings he usually deals in and put them on eBay for $150 each which is top dollar for them even as nice as they looked (they did look original & unaltered).
    I didn't follow them but they may possibly still be there if your interested in one that bad... I own several so I past on his and I wouldn't go that high today unless they were unit marked, though in the past I have paid that & more for them.
    The moderator of this forum TP use to sell reproductions of the 98a sling and perhaps still does; he also does them of the Gewehr98 which are first rate!
    I need to get a couple of the Gewehr98 slings done for my rifles! (I traded & sold off most of my original ones awhile back & can't seem to get a chance at the originals these days- all I have now is one original & a few broken examples for the Gewehr98!)


    Oh, the 98a sling has a unique buckle and it is terribly difficult to find them (I was fortunate in that the last time I went to Peter Kuck’s gun show in Hartford I found a couple loose ones) if anyone knows of a person who can do such metal work duplicating decent repros of it perhaps we can get a few done for TP do start his 98a sling back up- his are good but he doesn't have a good source for the buckles... I bet if he could get a better source he might do more for us?



    quote:Originally posted by K98a Man



    Hi All, here are some pictures of my two Imperial Mausers. One is 1909 Spandau K98a m/m bolt. Everything else matching. No 1920 re-stamp. Other one is 1916 Sauer, bolt m/m. Origanal sling that took quite awhile to locate. Yes, I have a K98k sling on 98a, I just hate a rifle without a sling on it!

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    jacobtowne
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    Posted - 05/22/2005 : 2:25:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf:
    IMA has repro Gew. 98 slings for about $20.

    http://www.ima-usa.com/index.php

    I need one for my 1915 Mauser. Do you have more information on TP's slings?
    JT
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/22/2005 : 5:51:12 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I don't follow surplus stuff so am unaware of the quality of these- I know for a fact TP's Gewehr98 slings are near identical & high quality (not saying IMA's aren’t as I am totally unfamiliar with them) I know a couple collectors with them (TP's)- I have a couple of his 98a slings -they are good but the m buckles are not very good representative of the originals unfortunately (if no one can provide a source for repros to be duplicated I may just send him my original to make up one or two- until someone does make a decent 98a repro sling!)
    TP will come across this soon enough in his review of current threads & if he is still doing them hopefully he will comment on availability (as I need two!)
    TP’s website:

    http://www.geocities.com/gew8805/New...l?973797791220



    quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

    Graf:
    IMA has repro Gew. 98 slings for about $20.

    http://www.ima-usa.com/index.php

    I need one for my 1915 Mauser. Do you have more information on TP's slings?
    JT

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    http://gewehr98.com/
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    TP
    Moderator Military Mauser Forum

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    Posted - 05/22/2005 : 9:33:26 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the compliments on the slings Paul, I really appreciate it. If correct buckles can be found, I'll be happy to make more but they are hard to come by and the guy that was doing them has stopped - I did a few for him and for one another guy recently and that has been it until good ones show up. Sorry guys....
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    jacobtowne
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    Posted - 05/23/2005 : 08:01:30 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    TP:
    I have the original hardware with my sling - the adjustment buckle with stud on the underside and the QD swivel. It's missing the parade hook swivel, but that's not necessary, or is it?
    JT
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    Insanejoe
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    Posted - 05/27/2005 : 12:01:34 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have a mauser 98 the reciever is marked Danzig 1906 and has a crown embelm. the stock has been been cut down. it has about a ~22 inch barrel and the old style rear sight. it also has the bent bolt instead of the straight out one. what model of mauser is this? Or is it a frankenstein mauser? it works quite well 1/2" groupings a 25 yards havent measured it past that but it always hits what i aim it at.
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    TP
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    Posted - 05/27/2005 : 10:05:28 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

    TP:
    I have the original hardware with my sling - the adjustment buckle with stud on the underside and the QD swivel. It's missing the parade hook swivel, but that's not necessary, or is it?
    JT



    Hi JT
    The parade hook is necessary if you want to "shorten" the sling correctly. They are available from Springfield Sporters for, I think, about $5.00. Give them a call and they will know what you are talking about.
    T.P.
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/27/2005 : 11:10:37 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    If it has an "old style rear sight" or lange then it would very likely be a bubba work of art with a 22 inch barrel & bent bolt.
    A 98k barrel is about 23 inches long- some of the Gewehr98's were converted to 98k but from my experience I have not seen very many- outside of rc variations anyway which are of no special value.
    The original matching Gewehr98 conversions to 98b or 98k are a bit scarce when matching and are quite valuable. (There is a difference between Gew98M & 98b though you wouldn't know it by the misuse of the designations on AA/GB be very careful if buying a 98b- know what to look for or ask for help)
    In 1906 Danzig put out a significant number of rifles, what is your rifles serial number?
    Describe it some? Sounds pretty far gone for a restoration but I would like the serial number & a brief description of its condition or anything unusual about it? (if you can do pics I am always after 3 views- top right & left receiver shots, plus what ever else you feel like sharing!)


    quote:Originally posted by Insanejoe

    I have a mauser 98 the reciever is marked Danzig 1906 and has a crown embelm. the stock has been been cut down. it has about a ~22 inch barrel and the old style rear sight. it also has the bent bolt instead of the straight out one. what model of mauser is this? Or is it a frankenstein mauser? it works quite well 1/2" groupings a 25 yards havent measured it past that but it always hits what i aim it at.

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    jacobtowne
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    Posted - 05/28/2005 : 08:34:13 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by TP

    quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne

    TP:
    I have the original hardware with my sling - the adjustment buckle with stud on the underside and the QD swivel. It's missing the parade hook swivel, but that's not necessary, or is it?
    JT



    Hi JT
    The parade hook is necessary if you want to "shorten" the sling correctly. They are available from Springfield Sporters for, I think, about $5.00. Give them a call and they will know what you are talking about.
    T.P.




    TP:
    What I had in mind was sending you the hardware if you are still interested in making new slings.
    JT
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/28/2005 : 11:46:43 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Ha! That's funny- TP doesn't take a hint does he!
    I'd like to get a couple done as well! Here is a picture of one of his recent creations; tell me does anyone else make one as nice as this one?
    The black one is an original naturally- for comparison- these were sold to another collector friend but came from TP, simply the best choice for repro slings (I believe Parallax’s Amberg sports one of TP slings too, read that somewhere)


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    quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne
    TP:
    What I had in mind was sending you the hardware if you are still interested in making new slings.
    JT

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    Insanejoe
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    Posted - 05/28/2005 : 1:28:06 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    If it has an "old style rear sight" or lange then it would very likely be a bubba work of art with a 22 inch barrel & bent bolt.
    A 98k barrel is about 23 inches long- some of the Gewehr98's were converted to 98k but from my experience I have not seen very many- outside of rc variations anyway which are of no special value.
    The original matching Gewehr98 conversions to 98b or 98k are a bit scarce when matching and are quite valuable. (There is a difference between Gew98M & 98b though you wouldn't know it by the misuse of the designations on AA/GB be very careful if buying a 98b- know what to look for or ask for help)
    In 1906 Danzig put out a significant number of rifles, what is your rifles serial number?
    Describe it some? Sounds pretty far gone for a restoration but I would like the serial number & a brief description of its condition or anything unusual about it? (if you can do pics I am always after 3 views- top right & left receiver shots, plus what ever else you feel like sharing!)


    It has a 23" barrel(i just checked) Wheres the serial number there are numbers all over this thing lol. Here are the only pics i have right now.

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    jacobtowne
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    Posted - 05/28/2005 : 1:36:09 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf:
    Very nice, and in a choice of colors as well?
    Now all you need to do is soak the sling in crankcase oil and drag it behind your truck for a few miles...
    I didn't really mean that, TP.
    JT
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 05/28/2005 : 8:06:16 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have ab0out 6 or 7 of TP's excellent slings made with my original hardware from broken slings. I have found that such a sling soaked in Ballistol or if not available Neatsfoot oil and let lay in the sun for a day or two really does a good natural darkening of the leather. And it is supple and very pleasent !.Not at all like that pakistani orange rotten smelling leather the repos generally are found made of.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    TP
    Moderator Military Mauser Forum

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    2034 Posts

    Posted - 05/28/2005 : 10:15:02 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Oops, sorry JT. Technically we can't talk about WTB/WTS things on the Mauser Forum, it's against the rules but if you want to email me at [email protected] we I can talk to you about it. Thanks for all of the positive comments guys.
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    Subvet
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    Posted - 05/30/2005 : 10:32:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    DWM, dated 1916, SN:4050, over what looks like two script f's. All original including Lange sights, all numbers match except for Bolt has SN:1533, but is mismatched component #s. No import mark! Bands marked with last 2 digits of SN, indicating an arsenal visit in it's past. Overall cond. excellent. I bought this as part of a collection some years ago. The owner sorta threw it in the deal as it appeared to have surface brown rust on the metal. Got it home put some kerosene on it and the metal came up clean. It was covered with years of dust sticking to oil on the surface, metal is bright and nice bluing on the barrel! I was surprised that rhe G98 was finished in bright on the action etc. Stock I don't think is walnut, but beech or similar grain.
    Subvet
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 05/30/2005 : 11:31:58 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    SV ; Why do you think your gew98 has had a depot past ?. The gew98 had the last two digits of it's serial on such parts as bands , sight leaf , slide , bayo lug , cleaning rod , floorplate , follower , actions screws , extractor , and striker assembly .





    quote:Originally posted by Subvet


    DWM, dated 1916, SN:4050, over what looks like two script f's. All original including Lange sights, all numbers match except for Bolt has SN:1533, but is mismatched component #s. No import mark! Bands marked with last 2 digits of SN, indicating an arsenal visit in it's past. Overall cond. excellent. I bought this as part of a collection some years ago. The owner sorta threw it in the deal as it appeared to have surface brown rust on the metal. Got it home put some kerosene on it and the metal came up clean. It was covered with years of dust sticking to oil on the surface, metal is bright and nice bluing on the barrel! I was surprised that rhe G98 was finished in bright on the action etc. Stock I don't think is walnut, but beech or similar grain.
    Subvet

    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    K98a Man
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    Posted - 06/08/2005 : 10:36:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi All, it has been awhile. I just wanted to let everybody know that if you need parts for GEW 98 Mausers to get in touch with MauserBill. He is very knowledgeable and helpful. Quick response too.
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    Irgun
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

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    Posted - 06/12/2005 : 10:37:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have a "1941 Turkish Mauser". No "K. Kale" on receiver. I think (?) it's Gew 98 conversion. Serial number on receiver bridge 20999, no suffix. Number on bolt 512, with Imperial eagle on underside of bolt handle. Floor plate unnumbered but has number 7679 just forward of floor plate near front screw with two letters nearby "F" and "E" with crowns above them. Right side of receiver has three very faint marks, can't make them out. Left side of receiver has Imperial eagle and electro penciled "IF 20999" over what appears to be a faint impression of a letter i can't make out. Barrel number is 20999 ( no suffix )on left side with a "C" on right side. Below the "C" further right is "7 - 91". The dash is actually a dot ( centered ) and the "91" may be "01". Wood is walnut. Rear sight is numbered 20999. Parade sling hole at front of trigger guard.

    Can anyone nail this down based on the above information?

    Thank you,
    Irgun.
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    Irgun
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

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    Posted - 06/12/2005 : 10:43:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The electro penciling i suspect is really someone used a small punch to create the serial number, each numeral consisting of very small punched dots.

    Irgun.
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    Irgun
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

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    Posted - 06/12/2005 : 11:46:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    On the underside of the receiver where it meets the barrel is a stamped knight on a horse with the word "Bayard" underneath. I think Bayard. The y may be something else, it's a little deformed at that point.

    Irgun.
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 06/13/2005 : 1:22:28 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    As ClayD mentioned on the other thread both Bayard & Siemans/Halske are contractors for Spandau late in the war and it’s likely your Gew98 Turk was once a Imperial Gewehr98 (sounds totally altered now though?)
    Here are a couple pictures from previous discussions on this subject that show the markings.


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    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    Edited by - graf on 06/13/2005 1:28:23 PM
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    Irgun
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

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    Posted - 06/13/2005 : 8:33:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks Graf. Can you help me pinpoint the year of mfg?
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    graf
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    Posted - 06/13/2005 : 11:38:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    That would be impossible, as although all "recorded" examples were 1917 or 1918 Spandau they could have sub'd out to other arsenals or commercial firms?
    Further DocAV once made note of the observation that post war Bayard refurb'd Gewehr98's for shipments to China & consequently marked these too.
    No telling where that lead could take you!

    One can speculate that its most likely 1917 Spandau but there is no way to know for sure as it’s been scrubbed- doesn't even have the original serial number or proofs?



    quote:Originally posted by Irgun

    Thanks Graf. Can you help me pinpoint the year of mfg?

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    Insanejoe
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    Posted - 06/14/2005 : 2:57:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    anybody know what kind of mauser this is?
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    Irgun
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    Posted - 06/14/2005 : 11:00:52 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks again Graf.

    Irgun.
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    graf
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    Posted - 06/15/2005 : 12:21:32 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    You need to post more pictures than one 5 ft away... it looks like a Gewehr98 that ran across a cheap hunter to me.


    quote:Originally posted by Insanejoe

    anybody know what kind of mauser this is?

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    http://gewehr98.com/
    Edited by - graf on 06/25/2005 11:13:56 AM
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    K98a Man
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    Posted - 06/17/2005 : 8:50:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf............Just picked up a Vz24 Mauser. Receiver ring marked 1937, side rail is marked ceskoslovenskazbrojovkaasbrno, side of receiver ring is marked e3lion38, serial number P51435. Rifle is all matching, including the stock.
    Bore is mint. Did I get a good buy at $300.00??
    Rifle is NOT import marked and came with an original sling.
    I will take pix tomorrow~weather permitting..and post them.
    You guys are right.....one Mauser is not enough.
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    Tater792
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    Posted - 06/25/2005 : 01:24:20 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    J.P.SAUER&SONN,SHUL,1916 Ser# 6519 u Right side of rec.ring;crown over a script L or J Z ?? ; crown over M ?? ; crown over oval with some kind of script letter ?? Regards , Lee
    " When the pin is pulled, Mr. Grenade is NOT your friend" USMC.... "Don't ever be the first, don't ever be the last, and don't ever volunteer to do anything" USN
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    graf
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    Posted - 06/25/2005 : 11:13:10 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Awesome as its a new high serial for JP Sauer in 1916; knocked it up from 9832 t into the next block- fairly hard to do lately (making a new high on a wartime maker as I think the database is fairly tight on the wartime makers...)
    Regarding the right receiver proofs here is a typical example from 1916 (white background) & 1917 (blue background) both are similar to others in my files but most often people don't report (or photograph these proofs & that is unfortunate as they did change)

    Do some pictures of the rifle if you have the time as I like to "confirm” new highs if at all possible- of course like to see as much as you'll show of it too! (Always like to get the top, left & right of receiver most)



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    quote:Originally posted by Tater792

    J.P.SAUER&SONN,SHUL,1916 Ser# 6519 u Right side of rec.ring;crown over a script L or J Z ?? ; crown over M ?? ; crown over oval with some kind of script letter ?? Regards , Lee

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    Insanejoe
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    Posted - 07/10/2005 : 01:15:29 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thats more or less what it is. Im only 15 cant afford much. but its a good shooter, reliable and accurate. If the erial number on the bolt and gun are different does that mean its a mix and match gun? thank you in advance.

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    You need to post more pictures than one 5 ft away... it looks like a Gewehr98 that ran across a cheap hunter to me.


    quote:Originally posted by Insanejoe

    anybody know what kind of mauser this is?


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    graf
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    Posted - 07/10/2005 : 3:29:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Doing good for only 15 then; I was stuck with a 10/22 & shooting my fathers M1 Garand/03's until I was 20 or so...

    Like I said before the images don't give a clear indication of what you have; the only certain thing is its been sporterized with a cutback stock & bent bolt handle; if you describe it better I might be able to give a better opinion.
    Assuming the stock is original to the rifle it has the 1916 transitional features so it most probably is a 1916 or 1917 rifle (as it has the grips but not the take down), it has the proper rearsight so it probably wasn't a Weimar rework and if so didn't get the full works regardless (seen a few Ambergs that still have had the lange r/s & not re-blued)
    What is the maker/date, what matches serial number wise, is the receiver & bolt blued or bright finish? Does the stock match the receiver?

    That would be a good start; providing the serial number would be good also for my files.



    quote:Originally posted by Insanejoe

    Thats more or less what it is. Im only 15 cant afford much. but its a good shooter, reliable and accurate. If the erial number on the bolt and gun are different does that mean its a mix and match gun? thank you in advance.

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    You need to post more pictures than one 5 ft away... it looks like a Gewehr98 that ran across a cheap hunter to me.


    quote:Originally posted by Insanejoe

    anybody know what kind of mauser this is?



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    sako92s
    Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

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    956 Posts

    Posted - 07/22/2005 : 4:47:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1901 Spandau 273b.Barrel and rear sight modified for S-bullet.Only barrel,receiver,trigger and front and rear sight matches.
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    TP
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    Posted - 07/23/2005 : 4:30:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by sako92s

    1901 Spandau 273b.Barrel and rear sight modified for S-bullet.Only barrel,receiver,trigger and front and rear sight matches.




    For more info on sako92s' very interesting Gew98, see:

    http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topi...OPIC_ID=115045

    An intersting rifle with probable use in the Finish Civil War.
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    7 Cav
    Gunboards Member

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    Posted - 08/08/2005 : 1:39:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    My GEW 98 is a OBERNDORF 1917.The receiver is the only orginal part, the rest being Isreali. It is 7.62.The serial # is 1780.It has the star of david, imperial stamp and many more. One of note is a flower looking stamp with 5 petals under the serial #.

    Garryowen
    Garryowen

    END PAGE 6
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________


    START PAGE 7

    jumo213
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    212 Posts

    Posted - 08/14/2005 : 2:51:59 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit jumo213's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gew98/Gewehrmanufaktur Amberg1907 from Einwohnerwehr Bayern (EWB)


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    Jumo213
    Besseres kann kein Volk vererben,
    als der eigenen Väter Brauch.
    Wenn des Volkes Bräuche sterben,
    stirbt des Volkes Seele auch.
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    graf
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    Posted - 08/14/2005 : 7:03:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Really a nice rifle; perfect pics too!
    One day I need to document the different right receiver proofs (many don't bother to photo these and that is a shame as I find it interesting to see the variations to them & perhaps find a pattern) in this rifles case the proofs are different to earlier Amberg Gewehr98's the other 1903-1905 Amberg Gewehr98's I have on file have different proofs (the few I have on file have crowned R & Crowned W proofs & not always in the same sequence) one might suspect a change happened between 05 & 07; later wartime Ambergs have a change too from either of these earlier proofs.
    Amberg is a good maker pre-war (at least from reported production & observed examples, only 8 examples pre-war are "observed" and the reported numbers are pretty weak too especially 1911-1913.)

    Naturally EWB marked are more commonly Ambergs & this one is the earliest "Amberg/EWB" I have on file. These are interesting in that most of the post war marked Gewehr98's I have seen have gone through the 30's rework where receivers & such get blued/rearsight upgraded, this is not the first Amberg/EWB that skipped those reworking (Amberg EWB's seem to be the only maker with post war markings to be seen in number to avoid these upgrades- not sure why? Seen half a dozen)
    I am very pleased you shared the pics as its a fine rifle & interestingly still in Germany, not seen a lot of fine rifles from Germany (a few for sure but its good to see original rifles still come out from Germany proper)



    quote:Originally posted by jumo213

    Gew98/Gewehrmanufaktur Amberg1907 from Einwohnerwehr Bayern (EWB)

    Jumo213

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    ansbach
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    Posted - 08/16/2005 : 1:20:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here is my 1914 Spandau. Stock, handguard, barrel and receiver match.


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    graf
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    Posted - 08/16/2005 : 4:09:27 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Interesting unit marking, does it have the lange rear sight or tangent? Any post war features/markings? Is the stock original to the 1914 production? (Does it have 1916 features & or any thing that could lead you to believe the stock was replaced? Sometimes the armorer replaced stocks though totally legit, do leave tell tell signs of replacement)
    I believe the "Pi" is a post war unit mark for Pioneers but I have never been good breaking down unit markings unless its so straight forward anyone can do.
    I have a Pioneer marked lid (muzzle cover) from the Weimar era, very interesting rifle, seen it somewhere before though?
    1914 stuff is always great to see, especially original Imperial. Thanks for the addition to the thread, nice rifle!


    [quote]Originally posted by ansbach

    Here is my 1914 Spandau. Stock, handguard, barrel and receiver match.

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    ansbach
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    Posted - 08/16/2005 : 9:14:58 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    This rifle has a lange rear sight and pre 1916 type stock. Stock is stamped 40 behind grip. Barrel,bands, and sight seem reblued. Have no idea how to tell if stock has been replaced.
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    graf
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    Posted - 08/17/2005 : 2:52:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Good deal; check the follower (blued- not likely considering the rest you've said- or if notched to stop the bolt.) Often on armorer replaced stocks they will not have "all" the proofing that factory original do, sometimes abbreviated serialing of parts, lineout & re-numbered parts can tell it went through a rework of some kind- if the buttstock has the "B" then its post 1915 too, probably all fine considering what you have shown & stated, I just haven't seen to many Weimar unit marked rifles that didn't get some other work done to it; awesome for you if not as it enhances value (imo).

    Mike? Change your handle?


    quote:Originally posted by ansbach

    This rifle has a lange rear sight and pre 1916 type stock. Stock is stamped 40 behind grip. Barrel,bands, and sight seem reblued. Have no idea how to tell if stock has been replaced.

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    Kurtz
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    Posted - 08/23/2005 : 11:28:36 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Folks is there a k98 web site like the Mosin Nagant site?
    Showing the illustrated history of the Mauser/and k98 series?
    Thanks Kurtz
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    graf
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    Posted - 08/24/2005 : 12:10:04 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    There is no "good" website for the 98k if that is what you seek; Backbone is about it, most of the websites are either outright theft of Law's work or worse total BS from "collectors" who don't know what they speak... not sure the relevance of asking this question to this thread on Imperial rifles but if your seeking “rc” information gunboards offers "first rate" information of such on the k98 section; if your after rc data you'll learn allot!
    If you have a collector question regarding the 98k email me privately & I will assist, I won't help publicly on the 98k any longer.


    quote:Originally posted by Kurtz

    Folks is there a k98 web site like the Mosin Nagant site?
    Showing the illustrated history of the Mauser/and k98 series?
    Thanks Kurtz

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    Kurtz
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    Posted - 08/31/2005 : 10:06:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    This an attempt to “develop” a database of observed Imperial German rifles, this would include Weimar reworked rifles, rifles that served in other countries (Spain & Turkey) & even sporterized rifles- the only thing that is required is the maker markings & serial number must be “original” to the rifle.
    Many times a rifle will have a scrubbed receiver (SS service, some reworks have forced match numbers, sometimes foreign service will renumber the rifle) and these unfortunately can’t help.
    We are after serial numbers- as the suffix is especially important I would like to “see” the suffix if there is any doubt to what it might be. (It is very easy to misread certain letters; e & r are a good example.)
    If privacy is desired you can email me [email protected] (or TP), if you have some reason to keep the serial number private, the first two digits & suffix will do, images preferred (especially for new highs) but not required.

    We need manufacturer, date & serial number- if there are any unusual markings or proofs that would also be of interest (dual manufactured/reworked rifles, & star marked receivers) right receiver proofs are desired also.

    Further, for the common wartime makers the higher the serial number the more likely it will be a new high number & these are of greater value for our study.
    Common wartime makers are: Mauser Oberndorf; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; DWM

    For all pre-war makers (Erfurt; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; Mauser Oberndorf; DWM) & for the “scarcer” wartime makers (JP Sauer; VC Schilling; Simson; CG Haenel; Oberspree Kornbusch/Oberpree- especially 1915 & 1918 dated rifles) all serial numbers are of value, because some of the makers are scarcely represented some years & a few we have only “book referenced existence”- no observed examples.

    Some of the more desired manufacturer/date combinations are: all Erfurt production (1908, 1909, 1912, 1913, & 1918 have no observed rifles at all); Danzig 1912 & 1913; Amberg 1911-13; quite a few MO are lightly represented- as are some pre-war DWM.

    Thanks for any assistance- For those who contribute information I will share our results.

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    Kurtz
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    Posted - 08/31/2005 : 10:09:26 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have just purchased a real nice "Amberg" 1915 Gew 98.
    The serial number is "4885".
    Would a photo be helpfull?
    Karl.
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    graf
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    Posted - 08/31/2005 : 11:17:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Photos are always helpful- does your rifle have a suffix under the serial? I need primarily the top, left, & right of the receiver for my study; though the more the merrier.


    quote:Originally posted by Kurtz

    I have just purchased a real nice "Amberg" 1915 Gew 98.
    The serial number is "4885".
    Would a photo be helpfull?
    Karl.

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    Kurtz
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    Posted - 09/03/2005 : 01:43:52 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Just purchased a Gew98 "Amberg" serial number 4885.all matching even the stock...very pleased with this purchase.
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    jumo213
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    Posted - 09/03/2005 : 3:23:37 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit jumo213's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Yes, please give us some good pictures.

    Jumo213
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    Kurtz
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    Posted - 09/04/2005 : 10:24:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Aorry for delay in posting images of my Amgerg.98.
    "Kurtz" NZ

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    Kurtz
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    Posted - 09/04/2005 : 10:49:26 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    A new image of "Kurtz" Amberg 98.

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    Kurtz
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    Posted - 09/04/2005 : 10:57:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Amberg 1915.
    Kurtz.

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    jumo213
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    Posted - 09/06/2005 : 5:02:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit jumo213's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks Kurtz. Wish that I had a rifle like that. Real bavarian power.

    @ graf
    I always thought that you don´t like the K98k.



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    graf
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    Posted - 09/07/2005 : 4:28:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I like Amberg too though for what Kurtz posted he might well have posted on another thread as this thread is for serial number study or variation study. The top view & 3 ft shot wasn't very helpful to the thread.
    Regarding the German book, familiar with it; as for my interest in the 98k few have more interest in the variation, I just don't like what the variation is attracting these days, started in the late 80's with closet nazis and now rc junkies who only take a superficial view to the hobby, never looking beyond 10 year old backbone and not interested in developing upon our understanding of the variation; sold off most of my 98k several years back & considering doing the last of them now...

    Anyway back to a more rational hobby, Imperial rifles!



    quote:Originally posted by jumo213

    Thanks Kurtz. Wish that I had a rifle like that. Real bavarian power.

    @ graf
    I always thought that you don´t like the K98k.

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    PeterS
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    Posted - 09/17/2005 : 3:28:05 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by jumo213

    Gew98/Gewehrmanufaktur Amberg1907 from Einwohnerwehr Bayern (EWB)


    Jumo213



    Gew. 98, Amberg 1907, too....

    unfortunately not mine

    best regards

    peter

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    graf
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    Posted - 09/17/2005 : 11:13:18 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I received my 1917 Simson sterngewehr98 back from MauserBill yesterday and I thought I would share some pics of it next to my straight up 1917 Simson for comparison.
    This rifle was gotten in a trade from a lead from my website; the rifle was quite a mess and although still hardly perfect is as best as one can expect to get to perfect all things considered!

    I will do a set of before pictures, followed by a set of duffle cut repair pictures and follow up with some pictures I took of it today.



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    graf
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    Posted - 09/17/2005 : 11:25:29 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    July28 2005 receipt of the rifle (before pictures)notice the barrel backed out & the wrench marks some chimp used to pry the barrel off? The burn in the last pic?

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    graf
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    Posted - 09/17/2005 : 11:33:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here are the repair pictures Bill took for me for this thread, the end result was incredible & could not possibly of turned out better!


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    graf
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    Posted - 09/17/2005 : 11:52:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here are pictures I took of it today after I scrounged some parts for it (cleaning rod, handguard, muzzle cover & bayonet) the rifle has been fired (32 rounds minimum).
    The effort was a joint effort & thanks to GregM to for the recoil lug nut, the original was a mess (last image- thanks!)
    I don't think anyone could imagine a better duffle cut repair for this difficult location, really extraordinary job BillR did!

    I used my ersatz 98/05 sawback I got from MauserBill a couple years back too, thought Bill might appreciate seeing it again!



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    fireman
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    Posted - 09/18/2005 : 12:20:49 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Paul, looks great. I like the before and after shots. Every time I look at that repair I am amazed.
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    jumo213
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    Posted - 09/18/2005 : 05:29:45 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit jumo213's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    hello Peter
    And what about this rifle?

    http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=560661
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    graf
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    Posted - 09/18/2005 : 12:35:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Rich, I agree Bill did a fine job, certainly as well as it could have gone!

    Jumo, awesome link, and a new high for that maker, old kcn high was 3997 and this is a decent jump; interesting rifle too and would draw significant interest in the US if sold here, though I saw numerous problems/questions with it that makes the 1142.00 euros quite mad imo... still all in all a interesting rifle and the Ambergs you & Peter put forth shows a good many quality rifles are still in Germany!

    Peter, nice 07 Amberg, was there other pics of it?


    quote:Originally posted by jumo213

    hello Peter
    And what about this rifle?

    http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=560661

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    PeterS
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    Posted - 09/18/2005 : 3:45:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    yes.... some others....



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    graf
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    Posted - 09/18/2005 : 5:03:16 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    That is a sweet rifle, looks like the collar has the crown/R proofs so I assume a Bavarian bolt? Also the crown on the barrel probably a counter bored muzzle?

    Thanks for all the great quality pics, damn fine rifle!

    quote:Originally posted by PeterS

    yes.... some others....

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    bmorrill
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    Posted - 10/12/2005 : 9:41:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Amberg Gew 98, 1918, 3277e. Converted by somebody, somewhere, sometime to 4m/m. Anybody have any info? Was on GunBroker as auction 36532325, and there are still some photos showing.
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    graf
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    Posted - 10/12/2005 : 11:04:36 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks, saw that one for a couple months before you bought it; bet Leo was pissed he didn't sell it to some of the earlier high bidders as he had a couple go over $500 or so (much more reasonable @ your end price/BiN win...) sorry I can't help on the when & wherefores on this conversion but I see it shortened and the stock at least 98k with the side mount set-up/bolt cutout which needs some "splaining" and it seems the seller never did come clean on the stock matching etc... if a German conversion I would think it would have some proofs, but as I see the original lange r/s I have my doubts on it being a German conversion.
    Regardless not my area but might try a separate thread below as John Wall & DocAV follow all sorts of oddities and spread a wider net on interests...

    Might take it apart & do good images of all the post Imperial proofs, details of the conversion & identify the stock better (should be serialed inside and hopefully have a proof or two?) from what little there is from the auction no one will be able to help much?

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?item=33744558

    quote:Originally posted by bmorrill

    Amberg Gew 98, 1918, 3277e. Converted by somebody, somewhere, sometime to 4m/m. Anybody have any info? Was on GunBroker as auction 36532325, and there are still some photos showing.

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    bmorrill
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    Posted - 10/13/2005 : 1:54:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Mausers as such ain't my thing - but small caliber is, and military training rifles seem to be my current thing. I bought this as a possible military trainer prototype. The receiver and barrel match, but the muzzle has been altered. The bolt is not original, but it is matching and, here again, altered to fit the subcaliber adapter. The floorplate and buttplate numbers don't match much of anything. I'll take it apart eventually and start recording numbers and proofs. In short, it's not a factory original. But it is very well done. Bubba didn't do it with his trusty Dremel tool and a cold chisel.

    I've got some M20 Ubungsmunition, but I guess it was set up for the Geco type of 4mm since the M20 won't work in it. I know the Geco was rimmed, whereas the M20 is an odd little bottle-necked round, but I have no idea what the Geco actually looked like, I just know it existed, and has been obsolete for a long time. Anybody ever see any of the Geco?

    Well, regardless, I bought it because I'd never seen anything like it and was willing to pay the price to get my mitts on a very intriguing weapon. Bet none of the other fellers have one! Wonder if something from Lothar Walther could be used to make it shootable with M20?
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    gunhorde
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    Posted - 10/14/2005 : 12:33:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit gunhorde's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    My first Gew98 - Non-matching, probably a Turish replacement stock.

    $75 pawn shop find.

    1917 Oberndorf, s/n#: 817s

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    John
    Gunhorde

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    Edited by - gunhorde on 10/14/2005 12:37:00 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 10/14/2005 : 1:34:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks, saw it on the other thread- what makes you think it a Turk replacement?
    I see the funky front band arrangement pulled back & the rear retaining spring "missing" but do some better pics of how that thing is pieced together... I agree it’s screwed up but I have parted out a couple dozen Turk jobs over the years and all had German stocks though most totally arsed up.

    Many Turk jobs have matching parts and no matter what, you came out good @ $75; especially if all the bits are straight up German- if I had enough spare parts I could make a living selling the stuff.


    quote:Originally posted by jhainsworth

    My first Gew98 - Non-matching, probably a Turish replacement stock.

    $75 pawn shop find.

    1917 Oberndorf, s/n#: 817s

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    sakorick
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    Posted - 11/03/2005 : 06:38:20 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have one. 1917 GEW Oberndorf SN4524 on action and barrel. 4524 marked under front retaining screws. 24 marked on rear sight, front band and bolt release. Clip plate marked 16 and bolt safety marked 97. There is an s stamped on the barrel about 1 1/2 inches forward of the receiver ring???? and "stylized" script "n"'s??? under both SN's. On the rt side of action are 3 initials and crowns??? looks like RWW. I will post some pics later The one's I have are poor. Regards, Rick.
    John Deer tractors and Sako rifles....two of the finer things in life.
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/03/2005 : 1:06:14 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The letter below the serial (4524) is part of the serial number, looks like an "r"? Better pictures should tell.

    Yes do some more pictures, I answered your S question on the other link (S-patrone mark), the pictures most important to me is top, right & left receiver shots as that is the primary data I want; to answer most questions regarding value images of the bolt & stock proofs are important (more of the stock the better as that is probably the most important part of an evaluation buying a rifle..)
    Have any import markings? If the stock matches the rifle I would very much like to see what cypher/markings the buttstock has- looks beech though.



    quote:Originally posted by sakorick

    I have one. 1917 GEW Oberndorf SN4524 on action and barrel. 4524 marked under front retaining screws. 24 marked on rear sight, front band and bolt release. Clip plate marked 16 and bolt safety marked 97. There is an s stamped on the barrel about 1 1/2 inches forward of the receiver ring???? and "stylized" script "n"'s??? under both SN's. On the rt side of action are 3 initials and crowns??? looks like RWW. I will post some pics later The one's I have are poor. Regards, Rick.

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    jisii
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    Posted - 11/06/2005 : 11:20:14 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I recently purchased a Gewehr 98 made by Simson & Co. Suhl, dated 1916, Serial No. 7599. Rifle was bought at an auction in Somerset County PA in October 05. It is in good condition with a good bore. I believe it is a Weimar rework.


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    graf
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    Posted - 11/07/2005 : 01:16:33 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Yes, I agree Weimar refurb; Gew98M or modified Gew98 as per collector nomenclature... I see the upgrade wide band which was done on many of these; the sling swivel on the buttstock is not German and almost always a bad sign for "originality" of the rest but looks good from 10 feet- cut the loop off and drop $30 bucks on a TP sling, you'll never be sorry that.
    What is the suffix on your serial if it has one? We have confirmed to the “g” block but a report as high as v block believe it or not!

    If true on the v block that would really screw up the database in regards to what I consider the production rarities of among the makers- normally I follow Mark Weiringa's standard rule of data research and either need to see the serial or have 3 rifles in the block reported to change new highs.
    So far I have one respected collectors observation of a v block for 16 Simson but as it is known that some reworks got re-serialed during "some" refurbs such a jump require more research-

    Anyone with a "v" block 1916 Simson?? Tell us more about your 16 Simson?




    quote:Originally posted by jisii

    I recently purchased a Gewehr 98 made by Simson & Co. Suhl, dated 1916, Serial No. 7599. Rifle was bought at an auction in Somerset County PA in October 05. It is in good condition with a good bore. I believe it is a Weimar rework.


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    jisii
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    Posted - 11/07/2005 : 7:26:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    There is no suffix on the serial number. I don't understand your comment on the sling swivel; the rear swivel is inletted into the stock and looks like it belongs there. Are you referring to the front swivel? Did you notice the two piece stock? The bottom half of the butt stock is a separate piece dovetailed ont the top half. I have never seen anything like it before.


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    graf
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    Posted - 11/07/2005 : 8:43:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Bro, the Gewehr98 in German configuration (Imperial or Weimar) did not ever have a loop for the rear sling boss; the German sling for this rifle has a quick release buckle on the sling that attaches to the base of the buttstock (image attached)
    Impossible to tell from your pictures but two-piece stocks are found on some late war variations and this has been discussed earlier.

    That your sling arrangement has a loop on the buttstock shows that it is not original "German" but it could be just a skeeter improvement and is no big deal but if you display your rifles you might take it off to make it appear more "correct"- up to you naturally.


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    quote:Originally posted by jisii

    There is no suffix on the serial number. I don't understand your comment on the sling swivel; the rear swivel is inletted into the stock and looks like it belongs there. Are you referring to the front swivel? Did you notice the two piece stock? The bottom half of the butt stock is a separate piece dovetailed ont the top half. I have never seen anything like it before.


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    jisii
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    Posted - 11/07/2005 : 9:47:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks much for the info Graf. As you must be aware by now, I am not very knowledgable on Mausers, even though I have owned and shot them for about 50 years now. My first bolt action rifle was a 30-06 sporter built on a WW2 K98 action which was given to me in the early 1950s. Regarding the G98 sling arrangement, is there a source for obtaining a sling with the correct attachment? Has someone added a sling loop to the original piece or is the whole swivel a replacement? I will attach a close-up picture of the butt area. I would be satisfied with a repro. Did the Germans keep this arrangement after the rifles were reworked after WW1? Incidently, the rifle came with the USGI sling on it.

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    Thanks again for the help.
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    Bedford PA
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/08/2005 : 4:15:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The moderator of this forum offers the best reproduction sling I know of and is also el cheapo by comparison to others I have seen offered up- try this link: http://www16.brinkster.com/m88/index.html and inquire as to if he is still doing them?
    I have two as do most collectors who I know- some images earlier in this thread that discuss reproduction slings & TP's in particular.

    Hard to 100% on your close up (as it isn’t really that close) but it undoubtedly is just an added loop as most are- I usually just cut it in half and it comes out of the boss- pretty simple really and then your German q/r will slide right in. You might wait until you get the repro sling before doing this so you can still lug it around while you await the new sling?)
    Yes, the Germans kept this arrangement on the Gewehr98M (Modified Gewehr98s) until 1945; naturally the conversions (which yours isn't) to 98b or 98k would have had the side-mount sling arrangement like the made new versions.
    Another picture- nazi era with Gew98M variations

    quote:Originally posted by jisii

    Thanks much for the info Graf. As you must be aware by now, I am not very knowledgable on Mausers, even though I have owned and shot them for about 50 years now. My first bolt action rifle was a 30-06 sporter built on a WW2 K98 action which was given to me in the early 1950s. Regarding the G98 sling arrangement, is there a source for obtaining a sling with the correct attachment? Has someone added a sling loop to the original piece or is the whole swivel a replacement? I will attach a close-up picture of the butt area. I would be satisfied with a repro. Did the Germans keep this arrangement after the rifles were reworked after WW1? Incidently, the rifle came with the USGI sling on it.
    Thanks again for the help.



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    jisii
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    Posted - 11/09/2005 : 09:31:33 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Again Graf, thanks very much for the info. I used the link you provided and visited John Hardin's M88 Commision rifle site; I found no mention of G98 slings. Would they be the same as used on the earlier rifles? In any case, I signed the guest book and left a message I was looking for a sling for my G98. Hopefully he will get back to me.

    Thanks again
    John I. Smith
    Bedford PA
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    gunslinger13
    Starting Member

    USA
    1 Posts

    Posted - 11/12/2005 : 9:25:27 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    hi new to sight have gew 98 amberg 1907 has letters rss with crowns over them ser#7290 got gun from an old man stock not orginal gun fell and stock broke is this gun worth fixing or try to turn back to orginal not much into guns has turn style bolt maybe some one can use for parts will try to send pictures
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/13/2005 : 1:25:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hard to say from your description alone but probably not worth it if as you say the bolt has been arsed with & the stock broken... pre war are desirable in original and if either the metal was original & awesome or everything but bolt I would say yes worth the effort but as it sounds a mess I wouldn't think it worth the expense.
    A legit bolt will cost $50-75 minimum maybe more as Bavarian bolts are a bit harder to find; and the stock is really tough to find nice- well over $100 most probably?
    In the end you would still have a m/m put together and worth more in the parts you accumulated than as a whole so I would say no- if it is a nice barreled action make it a shooter or sell it to someone who will.
    For a better evaluation send the pictures to my website email (or post here) and I will give a better/firmer opinion and if you like put the pictures up for others to offer contrary opinions if they feel otherwise.
    Much depends on the reality behind the words- how badly broken; metal condition (blued/bright/pitted/re-numbered) what is "original" to the rifle etc...

    http://gewehr98.com/

    quote:Originally posted by gunslinger13

    hi new to sight have gew 98 amberg 1907 has letters rss with crowns over them ser#7290 got gun from an old man stock not orginal gun fell and stock broke is this gun worth fixing or try to turn back to orginal not much into guns has turn style bolt maybe some one can use for parts will try to send pictures

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    lady8mm
    Starting Member

    3 Posts

    Posted - 11/14/2005 : 8:01:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have a question for everyone. I have a hand-me down rifle from my father that I am just trying to find some history on. There are a ton of different numbers that I am trying to make heads or tails of. On left side of the receiver says GEW 98 and on the top of the receiver has Danzig 1903 and the serial number is 9719. Can anyone direct me where to look for information on this gun?
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 11/14/2005 : 10:32:38 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Dude, you are there- been at it for awhile and there isn’t any "better" place; my website has the basics and here on this single thread has more "public" info than all the other places combined- no BS and if you don't believe it have a look- google your heart out...

    Anyway ask what you will and I will try & answer; if I can't handle it MauserBill or TP will probably have the answer?

    Otherwise it ain't known (opinion of course)

    quote:Originally posted by lady8mm

    I have a question for everyone. I have a hand-me down rifle from my father that I am just trying to find some history on. There are a ton of different numbers that I am trying to make heads or tails of. On left side of the receiver says GEW 98 and on the top of the receiver has Danzig 1903 and the serial number is 9719. Can anyone direct me where to look for information on this gun?

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    gillou
    Gunboards Member

    France
    13 Posts

    Posted - 11/16/2005 : 2:32:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi,

    From France :
    G 98
    Dantzig 1915 :6410 p (but i'm not sure for p))
    Spandau 1902 : 3392 a
    Kar 98a :
    Erfurt 1915 :2237 m

    Regards
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 11/16/2005 : 8:32:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks; speak to your Spandau more? Unit marks; matching; original, depot/field level; Weimared??

    I like the early rifles as much as anyone, if you have the time describe it more?

    quote:Originally posted by gillou

    Hi,

    From France :
    G 98
    Dantzig 1915 :6410 p (but i'm not sure for p))
    Spandau 1902 : 3392 a
    Kar 98a :
    Erfurt 1915 :2237 m

    Regards

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    lady8mm
    Starting Member

    3 Posts

    Posted - 11/17/2005 : 09:15:34 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I am so glad that we found you guys first. My husband and are now very interested in finding the history of my gun. We are just looking for basics like when and where the gun may have been made, what the dollar value might be etc. Right now I use the gun to deer hunt with and my husband makes fun of me because I shoot such a big gun.
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 11/17/2005 : 3:22:14 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    They are a little long, but a joy to shoot- one must remember back in the Great War many of the men that shot these were short in stature so some look a bit comical in period pictures... I am 6'1'' so its not too cumbersome for me but I imagine a shorter person might find it awkward? I know my wife looks odd with it in hand- that & her typical "another one?" look on her face when I get a new one...

    Naturally she thinks they are identical??

    Anyway the website at the end of all my posts will cover the basics, if you have specific questions or images we can give an evaluation of the rifle (potential value, originality, scarcity, etc...)


    quote:Originally posted by lady8mm

    I am so glad that we found you guys first. My husband and are now very interested in finding the history of my gun. We are just looking for basics like when and where the gun may have been made, what the dollar value might be etc. Right now I use the gun to deer hunt with and my husband makes fun of me because I shoot such a big gun.

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    Deputy Dan
    Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member

    USA
    876 Posts

    Posted - 11/17/2005 : 9:51:28 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Observed an Erfurt 1901 dated Gew 98 today, s/n 731a ... bolt mismatch, but other than that, unmolested. 12/17/05... went back to the shop and the ERFURT was still there. It came home with me today. I removed the muzzle cover and pulled the bolt, and discovered an excellent bore.
    Edited by - Deputy Dan on 12/17/2005 8:23:15 PM
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    StG Jager
    Starting Member

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    9 Posts

    Posted - 11/21/2005 : 11:25:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi all i have a DWM 1916 3659e all numbers match including the stock and handguard and barrel bands.The strange thing about this rifle is stock color is black I have been told it was stained black ,and I have been told that is turned black from time and the elements I really can not confirm either for the moment.When i first saw it i thought it had been painted when i found that it wasn't paint and seen the price was fair i just had to have it



    Jager
    Edited by - StG Jager on 01/07/2006 12:39:53 AM
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    jth
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

    505 Posts

    Posted - 11/22/2005 : 09:22:07 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Spandau 1909 # 9674
    Danzig 1915 # 9293 ( all matching ) yay
    Oberndorf 1917 # X47
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 11/23/2005 : 12:22:37 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The suffix is more likely an "e" lower case; the Imperial rifles used lower case for suffixes.
    One runs across many "shades" of color on beech stocks especially but here you have no worries as long as the proofs are sharp & clear (there should be proofs on the buttstock & comb of the butt) your pictures are fairly small & low quality to tell much on condition.
    Regarding stocks, all beech stocks will have a reddish/orange stain applied to them, the shade changes with age, wear & use- I have seen them fairly dark.

    Walnut comes in shades as well.


    quote:Originally posted by StG Jager

    Hi all i have a DWM 1916 3659R all numbers match including the stock and handguard and barrel bands.The strange thing about this rifle is stock color is black I have been told it was stained black ,and I have been told that is turned black from time and the elements I really can not confirm either for the moment.When i first saw it i thought it had been painted when i found that it wasn't paint and seen the price was fair i just had to have it

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    graf
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    Posted - 11/23/2005 : 12:23:21 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks Dan; good p/u if you went that route!


    quote:Originally posted by Deputy Dan

    Observed an Erfurt 1901 dated Gew 98 today, s/n 731a ... bolt mismatch, but other than that, unmolested.

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    graf
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    Posted - 11/23/2005 : 12:33:04 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Do any of these have a suffix? (A letter below the serial number? Very important)
    I assume the "X" in front of the #47 is not a hidden number but an actual "x"?
    Is it a district depot/rework number or a post war applied prefix?

    Do some images...


    quote:Originally posted by jth

    Spandau 1909 # 9674
    Danzig 1915 # 9293 ( all matching ) yay
    Oberndorf 1917 # X47

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    jth
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

    505 Posts

    Posted - 11/23/2005 : 08:35:36 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Spandau 1909 # 9674 No suffix letter
    Danzig 1915 #9293 D
    oberndorf 1917 # x47 N
    Yes the X is in front of the ser. # and is a little smaller than the
    ser. # . Probably was put on later. Is this a rework mark done later
    after the war?
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/23/2005 : 2:28:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Can't tell from just a serial number; you'd have to describe it clearly & completely or do some pictures; I will say I have never seen one from the 10th before but that doesn't mean anything as there are several DD I have not seen represented.
    This subject was discussed on the 98k side recently & manytimes in the past- do a search for “district depot” or “HzA” and it should pull up some hits for you to research it some.
    I would suggest starting a thread on this rifle after either you taking some pictures of it (clear ones & as many as you can do) or do a datasheet on it outlining the markings.


    quote:Originally posted by jth

    Spandau 1909 # 9674 No suffix letter
    Danzig 1915 #9293 D
    oberndorf 1917 # x47 N
    Yes the X is in front of the ser. # and is a little smaller than the
    ser. # . Probably was put on later. Is this a rework mark done later
    after the war?

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    StG Jager
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 11/23/2005 : 5:25:52 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf i put some bigger and hopfully better pictures in my orignal post mabey you can see suffix better. I see how it can be a lower case e ,i also took a picture of the Imperial proofs on the stock just check out my orignal post,and thanks for your input.


    quote:Originally posted by graf

    The suffix is more likely an "e" lower case; the Imperial rifles used lower case for suffixes.
    One runs across many "shades" of color on beech stocks especially but here you have no worries as long as the proofs are sharp & clear (there should be proofs on the buttstock & comb of the butt) your pictures are fairly small & low quality to tell much on condition.
    Regarding stocks, all beech stocks will have a reddish/orange stain applied to them, the shade changes with age, wear & use- I have seen them fairly dark.

    Walnut comes in shades as well.

    Jager
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    1294 Posts

    Posted - 11/24/2005 : 12:11:03 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Definitely an "e" imo; they didn't use upper case letters anyway so has to be really.
    Looks walnut to me, as dark as I have seen, you have an ole warhorse that very likely saw some real use from the looks of it, I wouldn't change a thing on it.
    I suspect it’s from the environment/condition it was stored in that made it so dark, better to keep it this way than trying to clean it.

    Thanks for the better pictures!

    quote:Originally posted by StG Jager

    Graf i put some bigger and hopfully better pictures in my orignal post mabey you can see suffix better. I see how it can be a lower case e ,i also took a picture of the Imperial proofs on the stock just check out my orignal post,and thanks for your input.


    quote:Originally posted by graf

    The suffix is more likely an "e" lower case; the Imperial rifles used lower case for suffixes.
    One runs across many "shades" of color on beech stocks especially but here you have no worries as long as the proofs are sharp & clear (there should be proofs on the buttstock & comb of the butt) your pictures are fairly small & low quality to tell much on condition.
    Regarding stocks, all beech stocks will have a reddish/orange stain applied to them, the shade changes with age, wear & use- I have seen them fairly dark.

    Walnut comes in shades as well.


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    StG Jager
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 11/24/2005 : 01:23:06 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    you have an ole warhorse that very likely saw some real use from the looks of it, I wouldn't change a thing on it.


    I like the historical aspect of the rifle and the fact that its not in perfect condition but all matching and original a veteran of the great war and i wont change a thing
    Jager
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    Verdun1916
    Starting Member

    1 Posts

    Posted - 11/25/2005 : 4:39:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi Paul,

    I met Mauser Bill at the SOS last year and he put me on to gunboards and this thread. I really enjoy looking at all the wonderful Gew 98 pics that people have sent in. Here are some serial numbers from my collection to add to your research. If you need any close-up pics, just let me know.

    Gew 98:

    Oberndorf 1913, serial number 6565 no suffix, all matching
    Amberg 1915, serial number 6921e, all matching
    DWM 1915, serial number 9063n, mis-matched
    Danzig 1915, serial number 9675g, mis-matched
    DWM 1917, serial number 388m, matching
    Amberg 1917, serial number 8097o, matching

    Kar 98a

    Erfurt 1915, serial number 6330m, all matching
    Erfurt 1916, serial number 3349bb, all matching

    I'm expecting an all-matching 1906 Oberndorf Gew 98 next week. I will send you the number when I get it.

    Are you going to write a book on the subject? It is so badly needed and would be a great success.

    Take care,

    Paul
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 11/25/2005 : 11:30:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for all the serial numbers, no new lows or new high numbers but all appreciated!

    Yes, the goal is a book, perhaps not as elaborate as Law/Backbone or a collector grade variation but perhaps a collector book based on the perspective of a collector rather than a historical based book like Darrin just did on the Volkssturm.
    I think something along the lines of what Jeff Noll did with his unit marking book or what Bruce Karem did with his 84/98II book, I will start with a smaller frame work for collectors and do a significant illustration section showing some of the rifles in use (grenade platforms, action covers, trench covers, trench magazines etc...) then develop it into something larger with an update?

    What I really would like to do is a collaboration with more experienced collectors like MauserBill, PeterK or some of the other longtimers like CB or MarkW but I don’t see a great desire to move in such a direction; really what is needed is someone more experienced than me to be behind it but as I’m stuck with my limited experience I will do it as I can (which is smaller scale)

    Undoubtedly when & if it gets done it will only be with the combined experience of MauserBill, PeterK, MikeF, GregM & TP as such a project is beyond my experience alone.


    quote:Originally posted by Verdun1916

    Hi Paul,

    I met Mauser Bill at the SOS last year and he put me on to gunboards and this thread. I really enjoy looking at all the wonderful Gew 98 pics that people have sent in. Here are some serial numbers from my collection to add to your research. If you need any close-up pics, just let me know.

    Gew 98:

    Oberndorf 1913, serial number 6565 no suffix, all matching
    Amberg 1915, serial number 6921e, all matching
    DWM 1915, serial number 9063n, mis-matched
    Danzig 1915, serial number 9675g, mis-matched
    DWM 1917, serial number 388m, matching
    Amberg 1917, serial number 8097o, matching

    Kar 98a

    Erfurt 1915, serial number 6330m, all matching
    Erfurt 1916, serial number 3349bb, all matching

    I'm expecting an all-matching 1906 Oberndorf Gew 98 next week. I will send you the number when I get it.

    Are you going to write a book on the subject? It is so badly needed and would be a great success.

    Take care,

    Paul

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    Edited by - graf on 11/25/2005 11:35:44 PM
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    glenn m44
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

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    Posted - 11/27/2005 : 7:27:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    spandau, 1916, sn 3289
    glenn
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    jumo213
    Gunboards Premium Member

    Germany
    212 Posts

    Posted - 12/02/2005 : 5:10:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit jumo213's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Today I got my new "Turked" Gew98 Mauser Oberndorf a.N. 1918. On my my
    way back home I came through Amberg. My other rifle is from that town.
    But I didn´t found the factory. Next year I will go to Oberndorf with
    my bike.



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    Besseres kann kein Volk vererben,
    als der eigenen Väter Brauch.
    Wenn des Volkes Bräuche sterben,
    stirbt des Volkes Seele auch.
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    snyd352
    Starting Member

    4 Posts

    Posted - 12/04/2005 : 12:44:56 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    What can you tell me about this Gew98 Amberg 1918?
    sn 279

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    Edited by - snyd352 on 12/04/2005 12:59:50 AM
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    jumo213
    Gunboards Premium Member

    Germany
    212 Posts

    Posted - 12/04/2005 : 02:10:46 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit jumo213's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    receiver and barrel are from a rifle G98 (WWI). rear sight, stock
    and sling K98k (WWII). If you want to use a bayonet, you need one with a two hand grip.

    Jumo213
    Besseres kann kein Volk vererben,
    als der eigenen Väter Brauch.
    Wenn des Volkes Bräuche sterben,
    stirbt des Volkes Seele auch.
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    snyd352
    Starting Member

    4 Posts

    Posted - 12/04/2005 : 12:06:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback. This is all new to me and I'd like to learn more about the gun (history, etc). Does this gun fall into any specific category... does it have any significance or is it not as desirable due to being assembled from multiple parts (Gew 98 & K98k)? Thanks again!

    quote:Originally posted by jumo213

    receiver and barrel are from a rifle G98 (WWI). rear sight, stock
    and sling K98k (WWII). If you want to use a bayonet, you need one with a two hand grip.

    Jumo213

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    graf
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    Posted - 12/04/2005 : 4:37:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I really like the sign!
    Too bad you couldn't find the old state arsenal though I believe only the museum still exists- the original state arsenal was demilitarized in 1919 as a result of the Versailles treaty, it is believed the machinery was divided up among smaller new nations created post 1919.
    Here is a link that offers some help for tourists today and perhaps next time you bicycle by you can stop by & show us some pictures of your visit!

    http://www.bayerischewaffen.de/ewaffen.htm


    quote:Originally posted by jumo213

    Today I got my new "Turked" Gew98 Mauser Oberndorf a.N. 1918. On my my
    way back home I came through Amberg. My other rifle is from that town.
    But I didn´t found the factory. Next year I will go to Oberndorf with
    my bike.


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    graf
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    Posted - 12/04/2005 : 4:53:55 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Well Jumbo is pretty right on; obviously the wrong stock- you need a proper full length stock, more than likely if you were to sell the one its in now you would have more than enough to buy a decent "proper" replacement one (some insane reason 98k anything is worth more than its Imperial counterpart- for now at least).
    The rifle looks to me a very early Weimar salvage or assemblage from spares/leftover production (the very early Weimar fireproof); obviously not an Imperial rifle, one might be able to tell more if you show good pictures of the right receiver marks, any barrel markings, the rear sight markings- if it was an early assemblage/early tangent r/s upgrade it will show on the rear sight with the Ss markings etc...

    Really more pictures are required to tell what your rifle was before some nincompoop put it in a 98k stock. (By the way larger better pics are best- outdoors usually produce better results- need clarity! Especially with proofs & acceptance marks)



    quote:Originally posted by snyd352

    Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback. This is all new to me and I'd like to learn more about the gun (history, etc). Does this gun fall into any specific category... does it have any significance or is it not as desirable due to being assembled from multiple parts (Gew 98 & K98k)? Thanks again!

    quote:Originally posted by jumo213

    receiver and barrel are from a rifle G98 (WWI). rear sight, stock
    and sling K98k (WWII). If you want to use a bayonet, you need one with a two hand grip.

    Jumo213


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    graf
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    Posted - 12/04/2005 : 5:02:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    err, to answer your original question regarding its nomenclature, it very likely was "originally" a Gew98M as many collectors call them today, most probably from left over production at the end of the war. (the rear sight will tell you more here as to when it was upgraded)

    It was never a 98k and though it may have once been made into a 98b its impossible to tell if you don't have the original bolt or stock- pretty unlikely anyway.

    We recently discussed the origins of the nomenclature "Gew98M" and its meaning- do a search and it should pull up numerous hits.
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    snyd352
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    Posted - 12/05/2005 : 12:19:41 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I'll post more and better pictures when I get a chance. As for markings, the only markings on the right side are a pineapple-type symbol on the receiver and P74 below the rear sight, 3 times. The P74 appears to be within a box-type symbol. Also, on the left side below the rear sight is marked S/42K. The rear sight is marked with a K, the P74 marking below the K, and 279 below that. 279 or 79 is on the trigger plate, bolt, and screws as well. Sorry, I know pictures would be better... I'll post them as soon as I can. Thanks for your help!

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    Well Jumbo is pretty right on; obviously the wrong stock- you need a proper full length stock, more than likely if you were to sell the one its in now you would have more than enough to buy a decent "proper" replacement one (some insane reason 98k anything is worth more than its Imperial counterpart- for now at least).
    The rifle looks to me a very early Weimar salvage or assemblage from spares/leftover production (the very early Weimar fireproof); obviously not an Imperial rifle, one might be able to tell more if you show good pictures of the right receiver marks, any barrel markings, the rear sight markings- if it was an early assemblage/early tangent r/s upgrade it will show on the rear sight with the Ss markings etc...

    Really more pictures are required to tell what your rifle was before some nincompoop put it in a 98k stock. (By the way larger better pics are best- outdoors usually produce better results- need clarity! Especially with proofs & acceptance marks)



    quote:Originally posted by snyd352

    Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback. This is all new to me and I'd like to learn more about the gun (history, etc). Does this gun fall into any specific category... does it have any significance or is it not as desirable due to being assembled from multiple parts (Gew 98 & K98k)? Thanks again!

    quote:Originally posted by jumo213

    receiver and barrel are from a rifle G98 (WWI). rear sight, stock
    and sling K98k (WWII). If you want to use a bayonet, you need one with a two hand grip.

    Jumo213



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    graf
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    Posted - 12/05/2005 : 1:19:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Amberg did use one acceptance mark that could be called "pineapple" in design but is actually a crowned letter, that there is only one of these marks makes it even more positive it never was assembled for Imperial use (not that there isn’t much doubt already as the lack of the Bavarian Imperial proof is enough I think)- usually there is 3 acceptance marks/proofs on the right receiver for a completed rifle (sometimes more if they were reworked post war or arsenal reworked); the rearsight is a much later upgrade too bad- dating from 1934 or after (rearsight definitely made by Mauser in 1934 but could of been put on much later & by another facility).

    Do more pictures when you have a chance as hopefully the barrel markings will tell us something- if not you don't have much chance finding answers as I had hoped the rearsight would have been an earlier upgrade to match the fireproofs... that the barrel is original to the receiver is a good sign (hopefully) the fireproofs look to me mid 20's similar to those found on early HzA jobs but most of those have added acceptance marks on the right receiver and some other differences too (many of these were of salvaged/never used receivers apparently- have several on file similar to yours but they all have a lot of markings to tell a better story, yours is terribly clean by comparison)- hopefully the barrel will date the rifles assembly later as this one isn’t following early facilities like Zn (who ended work in 34 or so- actually I would like to see some of its later work as I have seen so few & all that I have seen are mid late 20’s)- we need pics of the barrel (out of the stock) & a clear sharp picture of the receiver areas (bolt too if its matching to the rifle- actually all matching parts could help)

    This rifle is zero help to the database but I have always found these post war salvages terribly interesting- too damn bad so little is left of this one (nothing educates like a “complete” original rifle).

    By the way- if you want to learn more about these types of rifles do a search for Zn or HZa or district depot as they are all related in many ways.
    I unfortunately am not as experienced in these Weimar reworks as several others who visit here- if you post really good pictures of the barreled receiver maybe CB will give us an education on the finer points?


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    graf
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    Posted - 12/05/2005 : 1:59:34 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Are you saying the receiver serial is #279; that the bolt & trigger guard bits match the barreled receiver?

    Good deal for you if so, increases the value imo; you know the more I look at that rifle I think those proofs could be from 1934 as they are similar to Kar98k's from 1934 but when I enlarge the fireproof it looks earlier to me (beefier- with more pronounced legs like the earlier fireproofs); most possibly the depots were using the older fireproofs than the commercial firms of S/42 & S/147 and that would explain the earlier fireproofs & 34 rearsight.
    The real problem is there ain’t a lot of these salvaged receiver/early depot rifles (with the new Weimar fireproofs only) to go by; most were simply reworked rifles and many have the original Imperial fireproofs and a pile of markings- most of these “salvaged receivers” have dual dates or markings that clear date the rifle to a period… hard to go by a few crummy pics with low clarity.

    When you do the pics I will see if I can track down some comparisons to better base an opinion; impossible to go from your current pics as they don't enlarge well & hells bells I can't even be confident of the receivers serial!

    You know- might start another thread with really good pics & see who you might draw as many of the guys you really need answers from probably don't come to this thread- you could really benefit from CB/WaPruf2; MauserBill; PeterK; John Wall & DocAV- if you do it right you could get some good quality answers from them and they sure as shiite know more on the subject than I do!

    -- hell John Wall just put pics on a thread that would be perfect for you to highjack- look for a post from late November about a rifle in a museum in Spain that the dude described as a 98b… anyway you have most of the best guys on the subject there on that thread & if you bring it to the top with a set of good pics you would be sure to get John Wall, MauserBill & DocAv anyway… Plus you can compare yours to John’s as his is really a fine example of what yours should look like.




    quote:Originally posted by snyd352

    I'll post more and better pictures when I get a chance. As for markings, the only markings on the right side are a pineapple-type symbol on the receiver and P74 below the rear sight, 3 times. The P74 appears to be within a box-type symbol. Also, on the left side below the rear sight is marked S/42K. The rear sight is marked with a K, the P74 marking below the K, and 279 below that. 279 or 79 is on the trigger plate, bolt, and screws as well. Sorry, I know pictures would be better... I'll post them as soon as I can. Thanks for your help!

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    jumo213
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    Posted - 12/05/2005 : 2:06:26 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit jumo213's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Ok graf. Imperial proof marks ("turked" G98 Mauser Oberndorf a.N. 1918).

    Jumo213

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    Besseres kann kein Volk vererben,
    als der eigenen Väter Brauch.
    Wenn des Volkes Bräuche sterben,
    stirbt des Volkes Seele auch.
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    BadgerDog
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    Posted - 12/06/2005 : 09:00:20 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit BadgerDog's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hello graf ...

    I know you've already seen this one, but I just noticed this thread and I thought I'd add my Gew98 here for posterity.

    Download Attachment:
    30.67 KB

    1916 Spandau Gew98 Serial # 606n (click here for detailed pics)

    Hope this helps your database.....

    BTW, looking for bolt cutters for swivel .....

    Regards,
    Badger
    Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here)
    Edited by - BadgerDog on 12/06/2005 09:01:58 AM
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    graf
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    Posted - 12/07/2005 : 12:42:24 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Yes, thanks for doing so- you stumbled across the most relevant thread on the subject (imo naturally); as you know by now there simply is little in print or on the internet regarding the subject of Imperial rifles.
    The newer collectors are darn lucky to have this thread that Tuco & TP have let run amuck!
    I don't think TP encouraged me to start it to go rambling on so as in the beginning it was meant as a database survey and now it’s gotten quite beyond that.


    Yes, do snip off that loop when you get a chance- that way you will be able to use your sling properly and have it in its original configuration!


    quote:Originally posted by BadgerDog

    Hello graf ...

    I know you've already seen this one, but I just noticed this thread and I thought I'd add my Gew98 here for posterity.


    Hope this helps your database.....

    BTW, looking for bolt cutters for swivel .....

    Regards,
    Badger

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    TP
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    Posted - 12/17/2005 : 11:00:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    "I don't think TP encouraged me to start it to go rambling on so as in the beginning it was meant as a database survey and now it’s gotten quite beyond that."

    Are you kidding? This is the best thing since sliced bread! Keep it up.
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    DaSwede
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    Posted - 12/26/2005 : 2:59:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    gew 98's
    1916 Amberg 8490 n EWB matching including cleaning rod/non-updated.
    1916 Danzig 9715 no suffix (nazi proofed barrel and stock)
    1916 Danzig 6773 n
    1917 Schilling 8370 b battle damaged
    1918 Amberg 550 g reworked into 98b
    hope it helps
    rick
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    graf
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    Posted - 12/27/2005 : 3:10:05 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks TP- amazes me the hits it has gotten; Swede, thanks for the serials, you have a couple interesting rifles, these Amberg "EWB" are often times (comparatively) seen with the original r/s which is really interesting.
    The Amberg conversion to 98b is something too; I haven't seen too many legit ones (the auction sellers constantly incorrectly designate upgraded Gewehr98 as a 98b- sometimes from ignorance but I think most often for greed)
    One could start a whole thread on the subject of Gewehr98 conversions but they are scarce to 98b or 98k most especially.

    Thanks for the help with serial numbers & details.





    quote:Originally posted by DaSwede

    gew 98's
    1916 Amberg 8490 n EWB matching including cleaning rod/non-updated.
    1916 Danzig 9715 no suffix (nazi proofed barrel and stock)
    1916 Danzig 6773 n
    1917 Schilling 8370 b battle damaged
    1918 Amberg 550 g reworked into 98b
    hope it helps
    rick

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    Glengarry
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    Posted - 12/27/2005 : 6:59:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    These are Gew 98 rifles owned and disposed off 40 years ago in Australia. In those days I didnt record the suffix.Hope you find them of use. Oberndorf A/N 1900 (200m back sight) sn. 396. Erfurt 1904 sn.2923. Oberdorf A/N 1915 sn.4655. Amberg 1916.sn 3031. Schilling 1917 sn 5064. Simson 1917 sn 9436 Sniper 1917 Maker obscuered sn 1805.Gew 98 converted to Kar 98k.Receiver scrubbed ss proofs sn 96 no suffix renumbered. Kar98a danzig 1910 sn 550. K98a Erfurt 1918 sn 7378.
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    ansbach
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    Posted - 12/27/2005 : 7:07:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I picked up what I guess is called a Gew 98M, Amberg 1916.
    sn# 5077 e?

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    30.52 KB

    Most of the metal parts are matching except the bolt which is a partial match. The stock is not matching nor the buttplate.

    Download Attachment:
    24.5 KB



    Download Attachment:
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    ansbach
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    Posted - 12/27/2005 : 7:21:16 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    These may be easier to see.



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    Download Attachment:
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    graf
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    Posted - 12/27/2005 : 10:33:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I really appreciate the effort but w/o the suffix it can't really help the database... sounds like you had quite a few really interesting rifles- like the scrubbed 98k conversion!

    quote:Originally posted by Glengarry

    These are Gew 98 rifles owned and disposed off 40 years ago in Australia. In those days I didnt record the suffix.Hope you find them of use. Oberndorf A/N 1900 (200m back sight) sn. 396. Erfurt 1904 sn.2923. Oberdorf A/N 1915 sn.4655. Amberg 1916.sn 3031. Schilling 1917 sn 5064. Simson 1917 sn 9436 Sniper 1917 Maker obscuered sn 1805.Gew 98 converted to Kar 98k.Receiver scrubbed ss proofs sn 96 no suffix renumbered. Kar98a danzig 1910 sn 550. K98a Erfurt 1918 sn 7378.

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    graf
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    Posted - 12/27/2005 : 10:40:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Interesting rifle, this PeterK old rifle? Looks very similar?

    Yes, the German nomenclature is "Gew.98 mit s. S. Visiere" but collectors generally call them Gew98M or half a dozen other similar names to indicate their upgraded/reworked configuration.
    Thanks for the pics & showing the detail requested! I really think there is a possibility of nailing down some patterns to these rr rec acceptance markings!

    quote:Originally posted by ansbach

    I picked up what I guess is called a Gew 98M, Amberg 1916.
    sn# 5077 e?

    Most of the metal parts are matching except the bolt which is a partial match. The stock is not matching nor the buttplate.


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    CRH
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    Posted - 01/01/2006 : 08:12:11 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Picked up a 1907 DWM #1210 for $85.00 at a pawnshop yesterday. It is non matching but complete except for the rod. Has an odd splice in the foregrip between the rear band and sight (Z shaped). Duffle cut? Any sources for the rod? BTW bolt matches itself 6165.
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/04/2006 : 01:56:09 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Any suffix under the serial number? Can't argue with the price you paid, even the Turks 5 plus years ago cost me $99 each, damn hard to beat $85!
    Hard to say on the splice- images would help, ones with the b/r removed all the better... you can find funky repairs on wartime rifles.

    Nice rods (straight with clear serials & nice thread) are as hard to come by as moral character when grandma is selling bringbacks for pennies on the dollar- the only source of note is epay and they are at near mad prices when legitimate ones show up, expect to pay up to $40+ for a nice one; best option really is buy one of the Brazilian unserialed jobs as they can be had for about $10 and will do you.

    No body really sells good stuff (rods, muzzle covers, slings, etc...)


    quote:Originally posted by CRH

    Picked up a 1907 DWM #1210 for $85.00 at a pawnshop yesterday. It is non matching but complete except for the rod. Has an odd splice in the foregrip between the rear band and sight (Z shaped). Duffle cut? Any sources for the rod? BTW bolt matches itself 6165.

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    CRH
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    Posted - 01/08/2006 : 08:26:39 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf, No suffix to be found. Found another oddity during cleanup. All the metalwork below woodline coated in ancient white paint. Early attempt at preservation or bedding?
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/08/2006 : 4:47:05 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the clarification on the suffix; it’s a new low reported serial for that year. 1907 is a well represented year in Gewehr98 pre-war production, bit unusual for so many to be observed pre-war...
    Can't say I have come across this white paint before, perhaps done when they fixed the stock?



    quote:Originally posted by CRH

    Graf, No suffix to be found. Found another oddity during cleanup. All the metalwork below woodline coated in ancient white paint. Early attempt at preservation or bedding?

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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/08/2006 : 7:22:06 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    [quote]Originally posted by graf

    Thanks for the clarification on the suffix; it’s a new low reported serial for that year. 1907 is a well represented year in Gewehr98 pre-war production, bit unusual for so many to be observed pre-war...
    [quote]Originally posted by CRH

    Paul ; This is old hat. In reading up on germany's economy pre WW1 and looking at the fiscal spending alotted their armed forces the correlation to common prewar dates of certain years of rifle and kar98's is plain. That is when the kaiser allocated tremendous sums to the armed forces gew98's and kar98a's were ordered in large numbers. 1907 and 1908 were banner years for gew98 prodcution for example.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/08/2006 : 9:44:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Yes, I have heard you mention this before (010704), apparently true as this is borne out in “reported” rifles from 1907 being near double what most other pre-war observations:

    “1907 was banner year for spandau , oberndorf and DWM. Germany allocated alot of monies that year for arms - and the surprising amount of 07 dated gewehrs bear this out as well as financial abstracts of that year of german government expenditures.”


    quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe


    Paul ; This is old hat. In reading up on germany's economy pre WW1 and looking at the fiscal spending alotted their armed forces the correlation to common prewar dates of certain years of rifle and kar98's is plain. That is when the kaiser allocated tremendous sums to the armed forces gew98's and kar98a's were ordered in large numbers. 1907 and 1908 were banner years for gew98 prodcution for example.


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    Bal Ur
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    Posted - 01/10/2006 : 8:55:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Oberndorf 1907, serial number 8726, all matching.
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    Glengarry
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    Posted - 01/17/2006 : 5:41:54 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graf. Will try to get back onto some of the s/n of the Gew 98/s and see what the suffix is. I know the collections some of them are in. I had another look at the scrubbed reciever ss Gew conversion to Kar98k and its no suffix 96. regards Glengarry
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    petersen43
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    Posted - 01/21/2006 : 12:32:44 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Got another Gew98 today. Spandau 1916, s/n 9152 double letter suffix, gonna say it's two 'c's, All matching (including cleaning rod) except rear sight leaf, and front band. Walnut stock, finger grooves, unit disc/ no bolt take down. This came literally from a big pile of unfrigged with Gew98s. Most were mismatched bolt guns, saw one dated 1916/17, a few JP Sauer rifles (one with matching metal, but mismatched stock). This Spandau was the only one nearly totally matching. I'm gonna go back to the place in the next couple of weeks, I'll see if the guy minds me recording the info of the ones I don't buy, if it's ok- I'll post the info here.
    "What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
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    Edited by - petersen43 on 01/21/2006 01:04:16 AM
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 01/21/2006 : 07:09:31 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Petersen ; Guess what...I have a # 52 LV sight leaf and a # 52 front band. I may even have alot of parts the other gew98's need. Time to parts swap !.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    petersen43
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    Posted - 01/22/2006 : 10:17:23 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Ok Mr. Billdildoe, are you taunting me or are you really going to let me get those parts somehow?
    "What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
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    Helmer
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    Posted - 02/13/2006 : 9:00:59 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    For what it's worth - my collection today:

    Spandau 1915 5072s
    Spandau 1916 4404hh
    DWM 1916 1670 (no suffix)
    Amberg 1916 9291t (EWB)
    Simson 1917 2429d

    All bolt mismatches.

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    Ulan1418
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 02/21/2006 : 2:09:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hello all together

    I have the G 98 Mauser Oberndorf No.6573 1917.Not one of the metal parts are matching.But good condition.
    Do the last work in Turkey.But it s an original Mauser Oberndorf.

    Ulan1418
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    Ulan1418
    Starting Member

    2 Posts

    Posted - 02/21/2006 : 2:14:09 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    Hi all

    this is my G 98
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    Ulan1418
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    Stewartb
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    Posted - 02/23/2006 : 5:45:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have A GEW 98 Everything Matching except for the bolt SN 419 b? (looks like a funny B. I could be wrong)
    The Reciever is Marked Duetsche Waffen-Und MuntionsFabriken. 1916 Finish is pretty bad pitted and a grayish color. It has plenty of Imperial crown stamps. The rear site is the ROller coaster style.
    Bolt is Multi numbered bolt Handle #8604 ball #5426a. safety cocking piece #40 body #70
    "Get There Fastest with the Mostest" NBF



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    rblue
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    Posted - 03/04/2006 : 4:46:18 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here is my G-98 for your data base.
    Spandau 1918 serial #2926g. All matching and unit marked.
    Roscoe Blue

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    rblue
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

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    Posted - 03/04/2006 : 4:59:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here is a 98b rework for your data base.
    Oberspree Kornbusch serial #9333k. All matching. It was re-barreled and renumbered when it was reworked. The upper handguard is laminated and is not matching. I think the stock was renumbered on the inside to match but it's been so long since I had it out of the stock I can't remember. The reciever is Radom proofed!
    This one's been around... if only it could talk!
    Roscoe Blue




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    The Great Billdildoe
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 03/05/2006 : 12:19:29 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Rblue ; Some comments on these two gew98's if I may

    1) 1918 spandau. This rifle is a depot salvage of rejected components or from a damaged rifle. The 'H' on the receiver has been noted on most of the 1918 spandau's I have seen and indicates Hannover - a city that had a large depot for such salvage work. The stock is glaringly obvious not original to a factory 1918 gew98 , obvious sanding , prewar unit marking , and that the disc had been crudely prysed from it's setting. 99% of crudely pulled discs are those pulled from another rifle stock to "sex up a gew98". I have found a couple depot gew98's that had unit marked disc's that had been flipped during the rework process I feel to either hide the unit mark as they had no spare blank disc's in the supply system , and or as it was not going back to the same unit and was not needed to be seen and simply more economical to just flip the disc.You know , out of sight out of mind with a pfenning saved.

    The Kornbusch - well it never was a 98b. Simply it was a hew98 ( originally a sterne gewehr )that was given to poland as war reparations immeadiately after WW1.The germans subsequently captured it in 1939 and modernized the rear sight in their rework process.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    rblue
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    Posted - 03/05/2006 : 08:52:47 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Bill,
    Thanks for the comments. I tought that the G98 looked sanded, the stock is matched. It came from a WWII vet. I just assumed it was a bringback.
    Roscoe Blue
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 03/05/2006 : 10:36:11 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Rblue ; The stock was likely scrubbed and renumbered to the rifle , I should think during the rewrok/salvage process prior to 11 nov 1918. It may have been a new spare they simply pulled out from old inventory , but in either case the unit marked disc is quite incorrect with it.
    If this did come from a WW2 vet you know the old saying , buy the rifle not the story , it was more than likely a rifle takne home by a german at the end of the great war and put away for safekeeping. Alot of militia's ( mostly anti commie ) armed themselves with any issue rifles they got their hands on - most unofficially.
    Many such gew98's were found/turned in at the end of WW2 to allied forces by german civilians for obvious reasons. There was for example in Bavaria not that long ago a courthouse that had an old set of stairs replaced and underneath the stairs they found approximately 17 gew98 rifles , grenades and alot of rifle ammunition that had all been hidden there pre hitler era and forgotten about. From german collector friends this is not an uncommon experiance over there.

    PS - if your rifle does not have a # 26 cleaning rod I have one, would trade it for another serialed imperial rod if you needed it.I also have a #33 rod for your other gewehr if you have another original numbered rod to swap.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    rblue
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    Posted - 03/05/2006 : 11:37:34 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Bill,
    I'll go and check on the rods. I'll photograph them and if they are one's that you need I'll trade with you.
    You know, I believe that the g98 is duffle cut. I'll get some more photos of the stock.
    I have heard the same stories about the hidden weapons. It would really be something to find an old arms stash like that.
    Roscoe
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    rblue
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    Posted - 03/05/2006 : 12:19:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Bill,
    Here are some more photos of the stock. It was duffle cut. Your right, he probably brought it home from WWII.
    The rod is un-numbered but it does have a small proof on it. Hopefully it is one you need because you are welcome to it. Just trade me another one for the g98, it doesn't have to be a numbered one if you want to keep your numbered one.
    The rework rifle does not have a cleaning rod.
    Roscoe



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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 03/05/2006 : 1:59:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    "Sex up a Gew98"? Pretty funny... but I agree as I have seen a couple such rifles- regarding the cool unit disks they are pretty expensive by themselves if one has a cool unit marking on it- seen pretty incredible prices on them, not long ago there was one on epay that went damn high (over $40 as I recall but away from my files so don't have the exact figure on hand, I believe it was substantially over $40 but can't put a finger on the exact figure off hand- speaking of the “disc” alone!)

    On the 18 Spandau you didn't show the rear sight base? Is it the original base or an upgrade?

    I agree with Bill naturally but I still think your rifles interesting... interestingly a fellow collector sent me pictures of a similar rifle to your Polish utilized (seized/reparations/purchased post Great War) WOK where the rifle was very similar to yours but astonishing (to me) it also had the Turk crescent moon marking which I am at a loss to explain?
    I mean this to me would have to represent the rifle being sent (or from interned German troops- or I suppose captured after March 45 when Turkey declared war on Germany?) to Turkey post WWII (assuming the Turks used the crescent post 1945? Not sure on Turk marking dating? But this would seem to indicate the Turks used the crescent post 45?) Anyway it being a late Mauser Oberndorf adds to the curiosity of the rifle but anyway these Polish utilized Imperial rifles are interesting to me even if not particularly valuable- at least compared to a straight up Imperial or even a nazi re-issue...


    quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe

    Rblue ; Some comments on these two gew98's if I may

    1) 1918 spandau. This rifle is a depot salvage of rejected components or from a damaged rifle. The 'H' on the receiver has been noted on most of the 1918 spandau's I have seen and indicates Hannover - a city that had a large depot for such salvage work. The stock is glaringly obvious not original to a factory 1918 gew98 , obvious sanding , prewar unit marking , and that the disc had been crudely prysed from it's setting. 99% of crudely pulled discs are those pulled from another rifle stock to "sex up a gew98". I have found a couple depot gew98's that had unit marked disc's that had been flipped during the rework process I feel to either hide the unit mark as they had no spare blank disc's in the supply system , and or as it was not going back to the same unit and was not needed to be seen and simply more economical to just flip the disc.You know , out of sight out of mind with a pfenning saved.

    The Kornbusch - well it never was a 98b. Simply it was a hew98 ( originally a sterne gewehr )that was given to poland as war reparations immeadiately after WW1.The germans subsequently captured it in 1939 and modernized the rear sight in their rework process.

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
    http://militaryriflejournal.com/

    http://gewehr98.com/
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 03/05/2006 : 2:36:16 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Paul ; that gew98 with the crescent moon may have been captured by the russians in the first war , and found it's way into polish hands via russian loss , or capture from russians by germans in the great war from a turkish loss and then wound up in poland post 1918 as reparations. A strange lineage but not impossible.
    Roscoe , the rod you picture looks to be the 'B' proof found on brazillian 1908 contract rifles - so someone has added it to it post WW2. The rod is the same dimensionally as the gew98 rod , just these were made for the brazilian contract rifles. If you locate some original rods - no problem on swapping them.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    fireman
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 03/05/2006 : 2:48:27 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Sexing up a Gew98? That's like gliding the Lily!
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    rblue
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    Posted - 03/05/2006 : 5:22:52 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Bill,
    I'm probably the guilty party on the cleaning rod. I just sold a bunch of extra ones I had and put some in rifles that were missing rods. So that's where it probably came from.
    Thanks for all the information.
    Graf,
    If you want I can add some photos of the rear sight.
    Roscoe
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    jisii
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    Posted - 03/05/2006 : 7:21:36 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I attended an auction this afternoon and ended up buying a G98. It is a Oberndorf Mauser dated 1918, serial No. 5633A, and seems to be all matching. rxterior finsh is nothing to write home about but it has a mirror bright excellent bore. It has a crescent stamped on the receiver indicating it made a sidetrip to Turkey. How did I do for $120.00?

    John I. Smith
    Bedford

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    John I. Smith
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    petersen43
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    238 Posts

    Posted - 03/19/2006 : 11:09:09 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Not sure if this one's been posted her already, I seem to be at least the 3rd Gunboards guy here to own it so far, but here goes...
    1917 DWM s/n 2815n. Stock is beech, and has finger grooves and takedown disc. Rifle is totally matching. No unit markings, but is signed "Adolf Hitler" in the barrel channel.... just a little joke there
    "What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
    -Thomas Edison commenting on the French
    Edited by - petersen43 on 03/19/2006 11:12:37 PM
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    petersen43
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    Posted - 03/22/2006 : 8:27:29 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Mauser Oberndorf 1916, Gew98. Serial number 222y. All matching, but missing cleaning rod. German issue, not Turk'ed
    "What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
    -Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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    DaSwede
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    475 Posts

    Posted - 04/13/2006 : 6:38:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Graf-
    bought a bunch of swedes and got this one in the bunch...hope this helps gew98 Amberg 1912 serial number 17 no suffix...mismatched safety, cleaning rod and firing pin.
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    feldmutze
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    Posted - 04/13/2006 : 7:00:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    DaSwede, sounds like a good pickup...let's see some pics of that '12 Amberg Gew98.
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    DaSwede
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    Posted - 04/13/2006 : 7:35:46 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    here's some quick pics
    the stock appears to be sanded enough to obscure the proofs and has an ancient coat of shellac on it.

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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 04/13/2006 : 11:06:22 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Swede; damn fine looking rifle, I see the post 1915 stock on it but still damn fine pick up especially with such a cool serial!
    Can you do a close up of the right receiver acceptance markings? Always like to see those, as for the database I want top right & left receiver for a minimum.

    I might also add that this is the first “observed” rifle from Amberg in 1912; its was reported but no confirmed examples until now, and that generally means a scarce date/mfg combination- especially with such a low serial. (you know its bad arse when the “known” high is number 17!)

    quote:Originally posted by DaSwede

    here's some quick pics
    the stock appears to be sanded enough to obscure the proofs and has an ancient coat of shellac on it.

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
    http://militaryriflejournal.com/

    http://gewehr98.com/
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    mick74
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    Posted - 04/20/2006 : 1:15:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit mick74's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Army guy over in Afghanistan and I just picked up a Gew 98.

    Hoping you guys can tell me a bit about it - history, origin, etc...

    The plate underneath the receiver, in front of the trigger guard is marked with a "97" in the center, then more toward the muzzle there is another mark, then further up there is a "5297" with two barely visible stamps.

    On the left side of the receiver is a Gew 98, a serial number of 8377 above a cursive "t", and a small stamp on the left of the serial number. The left side of the adjustable rear site says "78" and the slide markings fo from "4" to 20" in increments of 2.

    The barrel band on the front of the forestock is marked with a "50"

    The middle barrel band is labeled with a "57"

    The charging handle on the bolt is marked with "1866" above a cursive "a"

    The right side is marked with "BS78"

    The top of the receiver is marked with "Waffenfabrik Mauser A-G Oberndorf 1916"

    There are two stampings on the right side of the receiver, on the side of the Waffenfabrik stamp.

    Any thoughts on origin, likely history or value?

    Mick
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    graf
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    Posted - 04/20/2006 : 5:23:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Well considering the location- the Mideast- and its mfg it could be a Turk used rifle, does it have a Crescent moon or any signs of Turk use/rework?
    It was made in 1916 by Mauser Oberndorf, and 1916 is when Mauser Oberndorf starts to become seen as sending its production to Turkey- its not rare to find a legit real deal German Gewehr98 made by Mauser Oberndorf/1916 but by 1917 you have something if its real deal "Imperial" Mauser Oberndorf.
    I have seen only a couple three examples of collector quality while most are junker Turk jobs... (Yes I know people like Turk jobs too, and they have a right to like them too- "power to the people" and all that- have at it'm...)
    As for history of the rifle impossible to say unless it has some markings we can identify, may have gone to Turkey during the Great War, could of been sent to China post war or through Belgium to half a dozen countries and found its way to Afghanistan?
    Really no way to say - on the BS78 marking where is this located & how is it applied- stamped in metal or wood, what kind of style of the marking? Periods or spacing of marking?

    As to value, its about zero as how you going to get it to a place you can sell it? A typical m/m common mfg wartime "German" Gewehr98 is worth $200-350 give or take an insane whackjob on AA/GB; a m/m wartime "Turk" job is $100-250 to most sane buyers- imo most m/m rifles are worth more for its parts,- the Gewehr98 is no exception.


    quote:Originally posted by mick74

    Army guy over in Afghanistan and I just picked up a Gew 98.

    Hoping you guys can tell me a bit about it - history, origin, etc...

    The plate underneath the receiver, in front of the trigger guard is marked with a "97" in the center, then more toward the muzzle there is another mark, then further up there is a "5297" with two barely visible stamps.

    On the left side of the receiver is a Gew 98, a serial number of 8377 above a cursive "t", and a small stamp on the left of the serial number. The left side of the adjustable rear site says "78" and the slide markings fo from "4" to 20" in increments of 2.

    The barrel band on the front of the forestock is marked with a "50"

    The middle barrel band is labeled with a "57"

    The charging handle on the bolt is marked with "1866" above a cursive "a"

    The right side is marked with "BS78"

    The top of the receiver is marked with "Waffenfabrik Mauser A-G Oberndorf 1916"

    There are two stampings on the right side of the receiver, on the side of the Waffenfabrik stamp.

    Any thoughts on origin, likely history or value?

    Mick

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    http://gewehr98.com/
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    mick74
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    Posted - 04/21/2006 : 1:13:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit mick74's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The BS78 is on the right side of the barrel, behind the elevating front sight. If you were in a shooting position, the marking is parallel to the ground. It is stamped in the metal.

    I also missed a "3" marking, stamped, with the top of the "3" toward the muzzle. THe marking is located alos on the right side of the barrel, just in front of the WAFFENFABRIK stamp on the top of the bore.
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    obsessed
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    Posted - 05/15/2006 : 10:04:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hello, this is a great forum! I've enjoyed reading the well intentioned posts. After reading 9 pages of gew knowledge, I am totally confused! Thats nothing new. I have spent the last three days learning to post, and mostly learning to shrink pictures. Now, I can finally throw some pics at you. I would love any info, pos. or neg. I am considering paring down my collection. I want to decide what to hang on to. Knowing particular facts moves a rifle up or down the list. Helping the research is also great! Here are some pics.

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    obsessed
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    Posted - 05/15/2006 : 10:32:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Oh, also, bore is mint, not import marked. I know its tough to tell if there's a whole rifle here, I did reassemble and will post pic tomorrow.
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/16/2006 : 4:04:09 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I wish all the contributors would do such a good spread of pics- really fine pictures.
    I don't know what it is but I like 1915 dated rifles, well except for DWM which is terribly common in 1915/16, not to mean that Spandau is not common as it certainly is in 1915 also but really nice 1915 dated rifles aren't as common as say 1916 or 1917 dated examples...
    Plus I like the state arsenals!

    Anyway, damn lucky the bolt body matches as that gives the rifle potential, I don't think you showed an overview but that bottom loop needs to come off for sure, hard to say on the stock considering the force matched trigger guard it probably went through some rework, the m/m bits could of been m/m then or post war.

    Its like a lot of rifles, could be better – and a lot worse- probably worth keeping until something better comes along, the way prices are creeping up for real deal mint it might be awhile!

    quote:Originally posted by obsessed

    Hello, this is a great forum! I've enjoyed reading the well intentioned posts. After reading 9 pages of gew knowledge, I am totally confused! Thats nothing new. I have spent the last three days learning to post, and mostly learning to shrink pictures. Now, I can finally throw some pics at you. I would love any info, pos. or neg. I am considering paring down my collection. I want to decide what to hang on to. Knowing particular facts moves a rifle up or down the list. Helping the research is also great! Here are some pics.


    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
    http://militaryriflejournal.com/

    http://gewehr98.com/
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    obsessed
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    Posted - 05/16/2006 : 4:44:18 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Waiting for my first reply ever on the internet thing was, well scary! Thank you for the nice reply, not to mention it was from one of the actual experts. I am curious about your mention of the state arsenals? Was that the Spandau thing, or was one of the other marks relevant to that.
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/17/2006 : 1:56:52 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    I wish i were an "expert" but few are anywhere near such a status, most of us are just at different levels of knowledgeable and many are more knowledgeable than I am, I just know enough to be able to post once in awhile without being lambasted for expressing my opinion (which a single error can draw all sorts of "experts" out!)

    Anyway, if you go to my website, which was created to facilitate the same purpose this thread was made for, you will see a breakdown of all the mfg, note there were commercial manufactures which manufactured the Gewehr98 for the military (for profit naturally) and there were State Arsenals owned by the givernment and supplied to the Army, during the war (in 1915) there were several commercial firms added to the production to increase supply of the Gew98- so much so that by 1917 there were a surplus (I believe I read this in Carters book on bayonets?) anyway, the State Arsenals were Spandau, Danzig & Amberg (Erfurt too but during the war they didn't produce many- if any- Gewehr98's, the few one finds are almost always sterngewehrs and very likely not assembled at Erfurt but most probably outsourced, no proof but its a theory MauserBill started & I happen to agree with, Erfurt was a large and near sole producer of the 98a during most of the war, they also made MG's, P08's, bayos & who knows what else...) anyway the number 1 & 2 producer of the Gewehr98 during the war was Spandau & Danzig, one or the other was always tops with MO & DWM always close behind (this is from the database ranges of reported rifles so naturally speculation going from "observed" rifles)



    quote:Originally posted by obsessed

    Waiting for my first reply ever on the internet thing was, well scary! Thank you for the nice reply, not to mention it was from one of the actual experts. I am curious about your mention of the state arsenals? Was that the Spandau thing, or was one of the other marks relevant to that.


    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
    http://militaryriflejournal.com/

    http://gewehr98.com/
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    obsessed
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    Posted - 05/17/2006 : 4:06:52 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thank you Graf, I went to your site, very nice. Apparently I have a 1915 stock, I think, from the info on the site. I put some complete pictures of the rifle.

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    graf
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    Posted - 05/17/2006 : 8:58:16 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I really need to update it some but the friend i had do it is a bit busy now & i have to get off my arse & figure how to do it without screwing it up!

    That is the pre-1916 configuration,- walnut, unit disk & no grips; the changes took place in 1915 but were intermittent through to 1917 when the changes were fairly universal. I would remove the rear swivel though as it makes the rifle look cheesy- the Germans used a quick release buckle & never used such a swivel, obviously a post war addition.


    quote:Originally posted by obsessed

    Thank you Graf, I went to your site, very nice. Apparently I have a 1915 stock, I think, from the info on the site. I put some complete pictures of the rifle.


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    Ken in Iowa
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 05/20/2006 : 11:35:18 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here is my offering from a highly bubba'ed 1916 C G Haenel.

    This rifle was a bringback of a shoestring relative in WWII. It was found in a knocked out tank in north Africa. Aparently the barrel had been shortened to about 16" and the stock highly modified by that time.

    My cousin replaced the barrel and did some further mods. I will not subject you all to those horrors.



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    Ken
    Ken
    Mosin M38 collector
    Edited by - Ken in Iowa on 05/20/2006 11:39:53 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/21/2006 : 12:02:49 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Very cool, your rifle up'd the known high about 9000 rifles for CGH in 1916; too bad its altered so much as the Suhl mfg are pretty cool!

    quote:Originally posted by Ken in Iowa

    Here is my offering from a highly bubba'ed 1916 C G Haenel.

    This rifle was a bringback of a shoestring relative in WWII. It was found in a knocked out tank in north Africa. Aparently the barrel had been shortened to about 16" and the stock highly modified by that time.

    My cousin replaced the barrel and did some further mods. I will not subject you all to those horrors.



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    Ken

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    Ken in Iowa
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    Posted - 05/21/2006 : 12:16:48 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Awesome Graf. I'm glad I could help out the cause.

    The serials are all matching except for the bolt too. I got 2 bolts with the rifle, one bent for scope, the other a 98k I think.


    Thanks
    Ken
    Ken
    Mosin M38 collector
    Edited by - Ken in Iowa on 05/21/2006 09:44:05 AM
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    196FMJ
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    Posted - 05/22/2006 : 11:32:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    22 May 2006

    Here's my 1916 Mauser Oberndorf Geweht 98 with serial 6604g.
    The rifle stock was professionally altered before I acquired the piece but the action, receiver and bolt are un-modified.

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    196FMJ
    Gunboards Premium Member

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    Posted - 05/23/2006 : 5:26:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    Right receiver and lower barrel proofs for the 1916 Mauser Oberndorf above.

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    I'm coming from the K98 and Swedish Mauser world and just getting into the Gew98s: don't have enough knowledge of the various arsenal production runs and variants yet to know if any rifles had a curved instead of straight bolt handle.
    This Mauser came with an in-the-white curved bolt handle with Imperial proofs on matched bolt parts.
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    The Great Billdildoe
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 05/23/2006 : 8:41:12 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The bolt in your rifle may be period bent from a scharfschutzengewehr or radfahrergewehr. Just a guess as without seeing it close up it's a hit or miss call there. If it were such a bolt it would be worth to an idiot like me $120. I had a spare original scharfschutzengewehr bolt and let a buddy have it for a restoration of a period action he could not find an original bolt for. Am looking for one now for a radfahrergewehr restoration myself.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    196FMJ
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    Posted - 05/23/2006 : 11:48:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    23 May 2006 20:45mst
    TGB -

    Appreciate the possible bolt ID info: I'd seen various sharpshooter configurations before and wasn't aware that there was a bicyclist's version for the Gew98 [ I'm here to learn ]. The best Gew98 source that I've found to date is the 9 archive stickies on this forum thread.

    Here's the remaining bolt images from the seller and I've torn down the Mauser to confirm its condition: the current stock is a red-glue K98 laminate...not a bubba job but rather a minimalist approach by a professional who respected and kept the military lines of this rifle.

    I prefer to see customization jobs done on barrelled actions rather than on OEM collectibles but this Mauser's heart beats on.
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    196FMJ


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    196FMJ
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    Posted - 05/26/2006 : 12:32:37 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    26 May 2006 09:30mst

    Gew98 gurus -
    Have a rookie question on the Turkish Gew98s examples and text posted earlier on this thread.

    Does the term "Turkish Gewehr 98" refer to just the Mausers sent to Turkey in various years and receiving Turkish proofs, or is there a separate and distinct model variant based on production changes to hardware or stocks?

    If topic previously discussed, please advise post ID number so I don't tie up forum traffic.

    196FMJ
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/26/2006 : 7:31:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Generally a "Turked Gewehr98" is one that served Turkey (either German supplied or post war acquired “German” Gewehr98), they get that reputation because by & large they are well used, harshly cared for & often have had alterations/marking applied by the Turks that down the value to most snob collectors.

    The Turks got themselves involved in many little scraps both before & after the Great War where they picked up many variations & odds and ends- not to mention the need to alter or refurb rifles; how they managed to stay out of WWII is remarkable as even after loosing the Great War they managed to get involved in several nasty conflicts.

    No wonder most Turked jobs are in such poor condition.

    quote:Originally posted by 196FMJ

    26 May 2006 09:30mst

    Gew98 gurus -
    Have a rookie question on the Turkish Gew98s examples and text posted earlier on this thread.

    Does the term "Turkish Gewehr 98" refer to just the Mausers sent to Turkey in various years and receiving Turkish proofs, or is there a separate and distinct model variant based on production changes to hardware or stocks?

    If topic previously discussed, please advise post ID number so I don't tie up forum traffic.

    196FMJ

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    Bayonetcollector
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    Posted - 06/24/2006 : 5:21:13 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Bayonetcollector's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here's my Kar98. It is Erfurt made, dated 1917. Serial numbered 4328 nn (or PP, I'm really not sure of the letters here...). It was 1920 stamped, almost all matching, only the follower and stacking hook not matching.

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    Hope this helps your research.
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    graf
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    Posted - 06/24/2006 : 8:10:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    They are definitely "p" lower case (attached image of an "n" lower case) I agree the suffixes can get you though & that is why I always * a "reported” high vs a seen/imaged high.

    I appreciate the images of your rifle!


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    quote:Originally posted by Bayonetcollector

    Here's my Kar98. It is Erfurt made, dated 1917. Serial numbered 4328 nn (or PP, I'm really not sure of the letters here...). It was 1920 stamped, almost all matching, only the follower and stacking hook not matching.
    Hope this helps your research.

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    OldManKiller
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    Posted - 08/26/2006 : 8:40:52 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit OldManKiller's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have recently became the loving owner of 2 Ka 98's. They were orginally given to my Dad by his uncle who brought them back from WWI

    #1 Erfurt 1916 serial# 7641 (either cursive LL or CC)
    #2 Erfurt 1917 serial# 8949 "PP"

    Both have all matching numbers and both have the muzzle caps in place.
    The 1916 also has the bolt cover. I will post photo's as soon as I can.
    Bobby
    USAF 77-81
    USAFRES 81-85
    www.ww1remembered.org
    Edited by - OldManKiller on 09/21/2006 12:01:31 AM
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    graf
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    Posted - 08/27/2006 : 4:44:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the reports; the current high for 1916 is well into the "mm" block; for 1917 well into the "vv" block so both are quite near the end of known production for Erfurt for those years.

    Now the bolt cover/trench cover is an interesting subject, rare accessories for the 98a and as far as i know not yet reproduced by the scum of the militaria world?
    The 98a cover is different from the Gewehr98 version & many times rarer- to date we don't even have an image of one in the field (period pics) with the exception of a picture i have of a US soldier with a captured 98a that sports part of such a cover- not something seen all that often either, pics of US soldiers with captured German rifles is nearly as rare as images of rifles with accessories! (image attached of this accessory- or what there is of it left! Makes you wonder the disposition of the rifle today?)

    AT your convenience do some pics, I know I am not alone in the desire to see your rifles & trench cover!


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    quote:Originally posted by OldManKiller

    I have recently became the loving owner of 2 Ka 98's. They were orginally given to my Dad by his uncle and how he got them is anybodies guess.

    #1 Erfurt 1916 serial# 7641 (either cursive LL or CC)
    #2 Erfurt 1917 serial# 8949 "PP"

    Both have all matching numbers and both have the muzzle caps in place.
    The 1916 also has the bolt cover. I will post photo's as soon as I can.

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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 08/27/2006 : 5:38:30 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The trench covers for the kar98a are a good deal scarce. Though the gew98 trench cover can be modified ( easily so ) to fit any kar98a. I in fact got a kar98a years ago with such an original gew98 cover modified to fit the kar98a. All it takes is shortening of the guide tube on the lower clamp. The few original top covers I have seen are all marked with a capitol "K" on the top center of the actual cover. I have an original bottom clamp for a 98a - it has a more swept angled clamp portion and shorter tube then the gew98 bottom clamp. Anyhow - would love to see pics of the cover all around , especially if it's the real deal.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    OldManKiller
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    Posted - 08/27/2006 : 8:28:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit OldManKiller's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here are some photo's of the 2 rifles and the bolt cover.


    Ka98 Erfurt 1916


    Ka98 Erfurt 1917

    Here are the bolt / trench cover photo's you asked for:








    I guess I better practice some more with the wife digital camera.

    The only markings on the cover are a "W" over a line with "Co" under. And "DRP" under that. They are of simple block lettering. They appear on the bottom clamp and on the side of the cover opposite from the bolt handle hole.
    OMK
    Bobby
    USAF 77-81
    USAFRES 81-85
    www.ww1remembered.org
    Edited by - OldManKiller on 08/28/2006 02:05:40 AM
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    graf
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    Posted - 08/28/2006 : 2:06:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Looks like a decent cover but going by the descriptions I have of them & the one picture from a museum that shows one at an angle I'd have to say its doesn't follow what I would expect to see; personally looks like an altered Gewehr98 cover to me (the cut of the front retaining clamp especially doesn't look right in comparison to the one I have on file- image attached) but likely legit, hell very possibly wartime altered?
    Will let MauserBill give the real deal thumbs up or down as at least he's seen one for real...

    Either way a real deal Gewehr98 cover can run as much as a rifle, and your rifles look pretty cool and original from what you show of them. Thanks for showing them off!

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    quote:Originally posted by OldManKiller

    Here are some photo's of the 2 rifles and the bolt cover.

    I guess I better practice some more with the wife digital camera.

    The only markings on the cover are a "W" over a line with "Co" under. And "DRP" under that. They are of simple block lettering. They appear on the bottom clamp and on the side of the cover opposite from the bolt handle hole.
    OMK




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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 08/28/2006 : 7:40:37 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The bottom clamp is spot on and proper for a kar98a. The top cover - sans the 'k' marking I can't say for sure . A few detail may anser yeah or nay like length of tube on bottom clamp ( these have been cut down to accomodate the longer gew98 top cover ) and the length of the rod and the length of it's fixed and crimped position on the top cover segment.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    77x58mm
    Gunboards Premium Member

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    Posted - 09/27/2006 : 3:55:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    oberndorf a/n 1916 #6659x not a rework matching down to the screws.
    Edited by - 77x58mm on 09/28/2006 08:06:54 AM
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    John Wall
    Platinum Bullet Club

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    2414 Posts

    Posted - 09/29/2006 : 08:14:56 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Danzig 1908, serial number 4862, unit marking disc reads 59R.6.128. Mismatched rifle, bolt rematched by lining out the original number ((5496a) at the bolt root and stamping the bolt knob "4832". A former VFW rifle purchased at auction in 1992, with three cleaning rods jammed and rusted into the barrel; FP tip snapped off.

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    John
    Edited by - John Wall on 09/29/2006 08:30:23 AM
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    OldManKiller
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    Posted - 09/29/2006 : 7:23:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit OldManKiller's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Danzig 1914, barrel and action serial number 7808b, has imperial stampings and an S on the barrel. Trigger assy #2698. It is a highly bubba'd rifle. The bozo went so far as to drill and tap the reciever for a scope mount. Bolt is mismatched and has a turned dwn handle that has been ground to almost nothing. It looks more like a Kar 98 bolt, serial # 9085h. Bore is bright and clean. The previous owner said he used to shoot it often. But he was quick to point out that the gun was given to him in this condition. I guess I must have been giving him a bad look when he showed it to me. Oh well, it only cost me lunch and I was hungry anyway.
    Bobby
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    morrie419
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    Posted - 09/30/2006 : 8:54:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have a 1917 Amberg serial number 5054e.......matching except the cleaning rod, non import.

    ETA: Pics
    And is the letter suffix an e or l ? Sling is a repo.














    Greg S.
    Edited by - morrie419 on 10/09/2006 10:01:34 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 10/05/2006 : 2:48:27 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for all the serials/details, been away for a few weeks & only now catching up on the threads- very interesting rifle John and especially so as its an "Eastern Front" regiment, you say m/m rifle but is the rifle action & stock matching- in other words is the unit marking original to the rifle?
    Would be great if the stock is original to the rifle, i did a quick search & found no bayonets (Sg98) or rifles to this regiment and at least up to April 1918 this regiment entirely served in the east (although bounced to 3 different divisions (41st, 101st & 216th) if the stock is original to the rifle that is a great find, love to see rifles we can identify to units (very few we can- 98a easier but the Gewehr98's are damn hard to attribute...) seems the only bayonet (no rifles) that have been identified (by Carter in this case) is a 1905 WKC 59.R.1.29 Sg98, after looking for other examples none (and i have a huge database of bayonets!) Carter speculated 1905-1907 this AK received its Gew98's & Sg98's, being in Danzig your rifle would fit fine into such a guess? (until 1912 the 59th was in the 17th AK Danzig, then transferred to 20th AK in 1912 (Allenstein East Prussia)

    These “Eastern Front” rifles/bayonets are especially cool to see as they are so often not seen today, I suppose most of the “original” rifles & bayonets that got unit marked were lost 1914-17 in the east & most rifles that did eventually get back to be captured like for the 59th Regt which got spanked late in the war in the west after long campaigns against Russia & Rumania 1914-18 were replacement rifles? (I suspect the haul of Eastern Divisions back for the Kaiserschacht long ago got new rifles? Or replacements? I doubt many old timers or rifles from the old timers kept the original stocks through defeating the Russians & Rumanians?)



    quote:Originally posted by John Wall

    Danzig 1908, serial number 4862, unit marking disc reads 59R.6.128. Mismatched rifle, bolt rematched by lining out the original number ((5496a) at the bolt root and stamping the bolt knob "4832". A former VFW rifle purchased at auction in 1992, with three cleaning rods jammed and rusted into the barrel; FP tip snapped off.

    Regards,
    John

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    http://gewehr98.com/


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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 10/10/2006 : 12:53:01 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    "e" imo, the "l" is very similar but narrower loop & shorter end/tail (and straighter beginning- the "e" is kind of crooked starting out?)

    Your other query on the other thread- the largest top one is the royal cypher, most common are Prussian naturally but Saxon is occasionally seen- Simson I have seen more with Saxon than any other- yours being Amberg/Bavarian naturally it would be a crowned “L” which in fancy fraktur looks more like an “H” – many cyphers are hard to de”cypher” so go on faith here… also many are hard to see as many are very weak/sanded or unclear to make out… – as for acceptance markings Amberg is the only one that is consistent enough to identify a rifle made by Amberg; the Prussian mfg have some consistent acceptance here & there and with enough examples you can narrow the range but nothing like for Amberg/Bavarian rifles... also the large "B" indicates the stock is beech not the walnut that earlier (pre-1916 rifles) would have had, -a substitute wartime expediency.


    quote:Originally posted by morrie419

    I have a 1917 Amberg serial number 5054e.......matching except the cleaning rod, non import.

    ETA: Pics
    And is the letter suffix an e or l ? Sling is a repo.

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    joey4
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    Posted - 10/10/2006 : 5:40:32 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    C.G.Haenel Suhl 1916 serial #8051t Original configuration and finish, non import, 100% matching numbers including bolt, screws, and cleaning rod. Stock has finger grooves and bolt take down disk.
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 10/10/2006 : 9:26:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Joey - you're the guy that paid a grand + for that rifle on GUnborker. A bit steep , but it's only money.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    joey4
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    Posted - 10/10/2006 : 10:00:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Crazy huh! I agree that I overpaid. Worst part is that I don't care. I'm happy as a clam with the rifle. Just think how happy I made the guy feel I bought it from.
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    morrie419
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    Posted - 10/10/2006 : 10:20:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks again Graf.
    Greg S.
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    graf
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    Posted - 10/11/2006 : 01:11:20 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Yikes! That is a bit steep:

    http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...?Item=57352248

    However at least you have a decent rifle to show for that jingle (not everyone can say that...) the sling is a tosser imo too but the rifle looks prettygood otherwise (decent maker too) and as Bill said its only money.

    Seen a lot worse deals- unfortunately I was involved in some of them...


    quote:Originally posted by joey4

    Crazy huh! I agree that I overpaid. Worst part is that I don't care. I'm happy as a clam with the rifle. Just think how happy I made the guy feel I bought it from.

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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 10/11/2006 : 6:06:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by joey4

    Crazy huh! I agree that I overpaid. Worst part is that I don't care. I'm happy as a clam with the rifle. Just think how happy I made the guy feel I bought it from.




    Joe ; You made charlie a happy guy alright. He wishes he had a dozen more like that . and we all wish we knew guys like you when we have moved things in the past.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    chpar4
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 10/19/2006 : 01:03:53 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Have 98 buy CGHAENEL 1916 #8866 W/letter I can not make out maybe an a. All numbers match on all parts. A few distinct markings as well.

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    graf
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    Posted - 10/20/2006 : 01:07:11 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Looks like you found a closet queen; CGH is a good wartime mfg no doubts (especially original & matching); try & do a close up on the suffix and maybe I can decipher it for you??

    I leave Saturday for a week/10 days so if I don't reply immediately I am not being rude.

    quote:Originally posted by chpar4

    Have 98 buy CGHAENEL 1916 #8866 W/letter I can not make out maybe an a. All numbers match on all parts. A few distinct markings as well.

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    Finger
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 10/29/2006 : 1:50:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Years ago I bought both this GEW 98 and a 1898 Krag rifle for $500 in North Carolina. I am finally getting the time to research these finds of mine.
    The GEW 98 is a 1917 Oberndorf a/n It has "8mm Turkey" on the right of the receiver but no Cresent that I can find. Numbers match except the floorplate. The barrel is marked 7.92 on the top but forward of that just behind the rear sight is a "S" stamped. Is that a mark meaning rechambering for 8X56 ammo like my Straight pull Steyr, or does that mean something else? The serial # is G 6970 (the reciever is the only place with the "G" in front of the serial number) and underneath it is a script letter that almost looks like an "n" Any help?
    Semper Fi
    Jim
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    Finger
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 10/31/2006 : 3:22:18 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I took some pics today. This might help with my description.

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    Semper Fi
    Jim
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    oxi81
    Gunboards Premium Member

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    Posted - 11/01/2006 : 06:30:20 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hello Paul, here are my mauser rifles :

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    118.62 KB

    From left to right :
    - Gew98 Dantzig 1904 #2851 t (barrel and receiver only)
    - Gew98 MO 1915 #8686 h (all matching and ersatz sling)
    - Kar98a Erfurt 1918 #6208 s (all matching but needs restoration)
    - Kar98a Erfurt 1917 #2648 nn (mint - all matching)

    Hope it can be helpful...
    Cheers,

    François
    Edited by - oxi81 on 11/01/2006 06:31:48 AM
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    Oldbrass
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    Posted - 11/01/2006 : 2:48:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Oldbrass's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here's mine...

    Gew 98 1915 Danzig 5281.

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    Kar98aa 1916 Erfurt 3201






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    20th Maine


    "How soon we forget history... Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
    -George Washington
    Edited by - Oldbrass on 11/01/2006 2:57:08 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/01/2006 : 10:55:06 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Finger; I can't make out the suffix clear enough to get a grip on the suffix (try a outdoors shot or try & focus the pic better?) as you can surmise the serial prefix isn't German done and typical of most all of Mauser Oberndorf 1917/18 production this was sent to Turkey; I am not aware of specific details of the quantity of the equipment supplied to Turkey (beyond John Walters rough figures) but it seems fairly clear the Germans were dumping loads of equipment (and quality troops- a surprising number of quality German units ended up in Turkey/Turkish occupied areas late in the war) to keep Turkey a player in the war late 1917-1918.
    It is rare to find Mauser Oberndorf rifles dated 1917-1918 not Turked up, only seen a very few Imperial & a somewhat more Weimar reworked- by far most are Turked... unfortunately.

    As for the "S" this is sop for 1917 (1903 on actually) and not alteration or conversion; the "S" represents S Patrone and is sighted for that ammunition- the later tangent r/s were for sS patrone; this is a rear sight thing primarily though the ammunition is different as well, either will perform safely in your rifle (though really a non issue considering the available supply of ammunition)
    This is a subject MauserBill (and several others) have gone over a ton of times so do some searches,- they will give the technical aspects of the pre-1903; S patrone & sS patrone differences.


    quote:Originally posted by Finger

    Years ago I bought both this GEW 98 and a 1898 Krag rifle for $500 in North Carolina. I am finally getting the time to research these finds of mine.
    The GEW 98 is a 1917 Oberndorf a/n It has "8mm Turkey" on the right of the receiver but no Cresent that I can find. Numbers match except the floorplate. The barrel is marked 7.92 on the top but forward of that just behind the rear sight is a "S" stamped. Is that a mark meaning rechambering for 8X56 ammo like my Straight pull Steyr, or does that mean something else? The serial # is G 6970 (the reciever is the only place with the "G" in front of the serial number) and underneath it is a script letter that almost looks like an "n" Any help?

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    Edited by - graf on 11/01/2006 11:25:58 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/01/2006 : 11:21:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the data, the 04 Danzig would be a slight bump up for us, love to see more of it as you can,- assuming your inclined to sharing more of the rifles details (I like top/right/left receiver especially whenever possible); seems I recall something from you in the past but it escapes me offhand, at first i thought it the rifles but none show up in my files so must be something else?

    Thanks again- very helpful!




    quote:Originally posted by oxi81

    Hello Paul, here are my mauser rifles :

    From left to right :
    - Gew98 Dantzig 1904 #2851 t (barrel and receiver only)
    - Gew98 MO 1915 #8686 h (all matching and ersatz sling)
    - Kar98a Erfurt 1918 #6208 s (all matching but needs restoration)
    - Kar98a Erfurt 1917 #2648 nn (mint - all matching)

    Hope it can be helpful...
    Cheers,

    François

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    graf
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    Posted - 11/01/2006 : 11:23:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Can you make out the suffix- seems to have one?

    quote:Originally posted by Oldbrass

    Here's mine...

    Gew 98 1915 Danzig 5281.


    Kar98aa 1916 Erfurt 3201



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    oxi81
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    Posted - 11/02/2006 : 04:18:53 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    seems I recall something from you in the past but it escapes me offhand, at first i thought it the rifles but none show up in my files so must be something else?



    Yes paul, we did exchange some E-mails about Kar98 rifles and Mauser slings, especially Kar98 ones. You sent to me some pics of yours. Speaking about the kar98's sling, what is its overall lenght? I found something which can fit the stock but which is too much long...

    About my 04 Danzig, I will post some pics of receiver as soon as I can find my data-transfer cable between cam and computer
    This barrelled receiver is on the way to be totally rebuilt : it will be an integral mismatch shooter, but it's going to be assembled with mint parts only. These days, I did localize some pre-WWI buttstocks (walnut w/regimental disk and w/o finger grooves). Maybe commercial type buttstocks as they aren't numbered... I will keep you informed.

    Have a good day,
    François
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/02/2006 : 11:41:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Good deal; seemed familiar but couldn't place you specifically...

    Gewehr98 slings are about 40 inches long (38-41 usually due to age/stretch)
    Kar98a slings are 53-57 inches long in my experience, quite a bit of variation to them really but nearly all have 9 adjustment holes and are the slightest bit narrower than the Gew98 sling.

    Crosshatch is by far most common, so is sewn attachment of the quick release on Gew98 types but variations are known for either.

    Not sure of the metric conversions for you Europeans but in inches these ranges are fairly consistent.
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    oxi81
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    Posted - 11/04/2006 : 04:46:26 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Paul,

    A tip : 1 inch = 2.54 cm
    So, to convert inches to centimeters, just multiply inches by 2.54
    53 in. = 134.6 cm = around 1.35 meter.

    Thank you very much for info about slings lengths. You helped me a lot.

    Regards,
    François

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    oxi81
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    Posted - 11/08/2006 : 6:34:55 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Paul,

    Here are three pics of my 1904 Dantzig barreled receiver.
    # 2851 t


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    And, a pic of this receiver with its "new" buttstock. It's not a commercial one as previously announced, but a true reglementary one (with a # behind sling quick release and - blank - regimental disk on right side)...
    and it's really in a very good shape


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    Regards,
    François
    Edited by - oxi81 on 11/08/2006 6:36:54 PM
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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 11/09/2006 : 11:07:27 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1917 Amberg SN# 5057 and what I think is an "N" (suffex). Barrel matches receiver, and is proofed with Imperial markings. "S" on barrel and bore diameter marked 7,9.
    Stock is Beech w/ grasping grooves and disassembly disk, and is marked "B" directly behind the triggerguard. Stock matches reciever & barrel, to include both bands, buttplate and trigger housing. The stock is serial numbered to receiver in the barrel groove, and underside of butt twice, the second being a slightly larger font (during rebuild?) It had two Imperial proofs and the letter "B", but these look sanded (a long time ago), and is marked EWB over what was left of them.

    Trigger housing marked with four digit serial of receiver, and looks like original stamping (?). Floorplate was marked "15", and under that "57" like the receiver. Trigger looks like a Weimar era replacement and is marked with two small Waffenamts.

    Rear sight is marked "S/42G", and the base matches as does the sight.

    Bolt is correct type with Imperial proofs, and matches itself. Receiver is blued, and so is the bolt. No other marks found to indicate usage by another country. I"ll post some pics Sunday, I"m not sure of the suffex.
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    Old Man
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    Posted - 11/10/2006 : 8:13:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I`m fairly new to this forum. Excuse any mistakes in posting at this time until I get more familiar with the inner workings.

    Here is the info and photos of my GEW 98 1916 Amberg. I don`t know how to insert the photos direct but here are the links to my Photobucket album.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...PICT0001-3.jpg

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Pict0002-2.jpg

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Pict0003-4.jpg

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Pict0004-3.jpg

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Pict0005-3.jpg


    BTW, this rifle is an all matching numbers but has been sporterised some by stock alteration and the bolt handle turned for scope clearance but the receiver was never drilled for a scope mount.The bore is bright with strong rifling and is a nice accurate shooter.
    Hope this info is of some help in the research. This rifle is going to a show for sale on 11-12-06 so this is my last contact with it I expect. I`ve had it for about 50 yrs.

    Old Man
    Just an Old Man.
    Life NRA and others
    Edited by - Old Man on 11/10/2006 8:23:51 PM
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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 11/12/2006 : 5:51:27 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I think this font is an "N" graf. I also noticed that the front sight has been "cut" to accept the front sight cover! This old girl has been around the block with the Germans.
    One of these days I"ll find a good matching example of a GEW 98, but this will do for starters.


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    oxi81
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    Posted - 11/12/2006 : 7:13:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Sarge, this font is a "p" letter in typical european handwritten writing.

    Here is a (double) "n" :


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    Great history for your rifle as it has been successively used by Imperial army, Freikorps and Werhmacht. I supposed that it's WWII vet bringback?

    Regards,
    François
    Edited by - oxi81 on 11/12/2006 7:28:46 PM
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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 11/12/2006 : 8:18:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    oxi81, It does have a rich history. I got this from another guy on Gunboards, so I have no idea of the history. It has no import marks, and was not duffle cut. I assume it was a bringback, but I guess I"ll never know for sure.
    If this rifle could only talk....
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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 11/12/2006 : 8:18:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    oxi81, It does have a rich history. I got this from another guy on Gunboards, so I have no idea of the history. It has no import marks, and was not duffle cut. I assume it was a bringback, but I guess I"ll never know for sure. Thanks for the correction on the font.
    If this rifle could only talk....
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/14/2006 : 12:05:32 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I agree; clearly a "p" suffix; as for the history little doubt it served all three, the EWB is not Freikorps rather a militia organization but you are right it has a salvaged/matched stock & the sighthood slot indicates nazi era and that had to of occurred during the war (WWII- during some repair/rework- probably minor as it doesn't seem to have much altered besides..)


    Thanks for the great pics!


    quote:Originally posted by Sarge39

    oxi81, It does have a rich history. I got this from another guy on Gunboards, so I have no idea of the history. It has no import marks, and was not duffle cut. I assume it was a bringback, but I guess I"ll never know for sure.
    If this rifle could only talk....

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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 11/14/2006 : 12:12:51 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Francois;
    Cool b/r and I like it allot! You wouldn't have an idea to the "original" stock? Might it of been unit marked & such? I also saw your referenced French website on the Gew98 and wondered if you had further pics of the GGR unit marked rifle? (whether it was "original" to the rifle or not etc... one of the largest holes to fill in the database is to match unit marked rifles with dates/mfg, from observations of 98a production early unit markings often come in batches where one can easily speculate that certain mfg supplied certain units/organizations with rifles in batches- trying to determine how accurate that speculation is...)

    Damn well love to see "original" Garde marked rifles as so few exist with the stocks.

    Thanks for the great detailed pics of the Danzig!


    quote:Originally posted by oxi81

    Paul,

    Here are three pics of my 1904 Dantzig barreled receiver.
    # 2851 t



    Regards,
    François

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    oxi81
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    Posted - 11/14/2006 : 2:33:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    Francois;
    Cool b/r and I like it allot! You wouldn't have an idea to the "original" stock? Might it of been unit marked & such? I also saw your referenced French website on the Gew98 and wondered if you had further pics of the GGR unit marked rifle? (whether it was "original" to the rifle or not etc... one of the largest holes to fill in the database is to match unit marked rifles with dates/mfg, from observations of 98a production early unit markings often come in batches where one can easily speculate that certain mfg supplied certain units/organizations with rifles in batches- trying to determine how accurate that speculation is...)

    Damn well love to see "original" Garde marked rifles as so few exist with the stocks.

    Thanks for the great detailed pics of the Danzig!




    Hi Paul,
    All other parts of the Danzig 1904 have been sold apart. Not very important as the complete rifle was a total mix, even the buttstock.

    For the GGR unit marked rifle, no... I do not have others pics of it. I do not personally know the collector, but I will ask to him some extra info and/or extra pics.
    We keep in touch.

    François
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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 11/14/2006 : 7:32:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graf, does anyone have any idea what the EWB does stand for?
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 11/14/2006 : 10:46:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Sarge , If memory serves me it's " Ein Wohnerwehr Bayern " .
    And yes it's a bavarian anticommunist "militia".
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 11/15/2006 : 5:56:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks!
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    oxi81
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    Posted - 11/17/2006 : 8:13:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    Francois;
    I also saw your referenced French website on the Gew98 and wondered if you had further pics of the GGR unit marked rifle? (whether it was "original" to the rifle or not etc... one of the largest holes to fill in the database is to match unit marked rifles with dates/mfg, from observations of 98a production early unit markings often come in batches where one can easily speculate that certain mfg supplied certain units/organizations with rifles in batches- trying to determine how accurate that speculation is...)



    Paul,
    GGR.4.9.15 unit marked rifle is a Spandau 1900.

    François
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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 11/18/2006 : 11:58:38 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    KAR 98 Erfurt 1918 and is numbered as follows:

    Bolt marked w/ 4 digit serial# and suffix.
    Cocking Piece, firing pin, bolt sleeve, saftey marked with last two digits of serial#

    Trigger housing marked with all four digits, no suffix

    Floorplate marked with last two digits

    Buttplate marked with four digits

    Stock marked on bottom with four digits (have not disassembled the receiver yet to check in groove)

    Front sight post, both bands, and rear sight marked with last two digits.

    Has sling, mabey original...I"m not sure

    Has front sight protector as well, marked "AFVS" on front

    Stock is marked with proofs, has no cracks, and looks unsanded. I thought it was Beech Wood at first, but I"m starting to think its Oak? Light Walnut? Anyone?



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    graf
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    Posted - 11/20/2006 : 01:30:11 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    F;
    Thanks for scrounging that detail up,- the one thing my database is missing is a grip on the early unit marked rifles & whether there is patterns or not.
    On the 98a where unit markings are more available we find mfg/unit patterns and I suspect so with the Gewehr98 but until we get enough rifles to compare its just guessing!



    quote:Originally posted by oxi81

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    Francois;
    I also saw your referenced French website on the Gew98 and wondered if you had further pics of the GGR unit marked rifle? (whether it was "original" to the rifle or not etc... one of the largest holes to fill in the database is to match unit marked rifles with dates/mfg, from observations of 98a production early unit markings often come in batches where one can easily speculate that certain mfg supplied certain units/organizations with rifles in batches- trying to determine how accurate that speculation is...)



    Paul,
    GGR.4.9.15 unit marked rifle is a Spandau 1900.

    François

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    graf
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    Posted - 11/20/2006 : 01:49:02 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Tempted to say walnut too, but looks seriously bleached out for such- best way to be sure is to observe the buttstock for the large "B" which indicates beech, - if its not there its walnut.
    I for one would remove the stock for a look-see...

    I have seen some beech that looks awful walnutty so I can’t really say- though what it really looks like to me is sanded down walnut (here is a pic of a rifle I once owned which shows what I mean- it was a 1918 Erfurt too)


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    quote:

    Originally posted by Sarge39

    KAR 98 Erfurt 1918 and is numbered as follows:

    Bolt marked w/ 4 digit serial# and suffix.
    Cocking Piece, firing pin, bolt sleeve, saftey marked with last two digits of serial#

    Trigger housing marked with all four digits, no suffix

    Floorplate marked with last two digits

    Buttplate marked with four digits

    Stock marked on bottom with four digits (have not disassembled the receiver yet to check in groove)

    Front sight post, both bands, and rear sight marked with last two digits.

    Has sling, mabey original...I"m not sure

    Has front sight protector as well, marked "AFVS" on front

    Stock is marked with proofs, has no cracks, and looks unsanded. I thought it was Beech Wood at first, but I"m starting to think its Oak? Light Walnut? Anyone?

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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 11/20/2006 : 8:02:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graf,
    There is no "B" to indicate Beech being used. I have not removed the stock yet, but I don"t think it was sanded. There are plenty of rough areas, and the proofs are very clear.
    I had not thought about bleach...whats a good way to tell if it has been?
    Is it possible that at this late stage in the war little, or no stain was used?
    If you need more pics, let me know.
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/20/2006 : 11:23:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Actually doing a search (on AA I believe) I found the auction for this rifle and saw the lack of a "B" so I think walnut undoubtedly (more or less!)

    Sanding is a tricky thing to tell from pics, I have seen really light sanding that hardly touches on the clarity of the acceptance markings & cyphers... but if its especially smooth that is a good thing to suspect- it takes some experience to tell sometimes.

    I have never been a member of the "anything is possible" crowd & 1918 is not 1945 in the scope of desperation; desperation came upon the Germans quite quickly and up to August 1918 they had as much chance as the Entente to pull it off- too much post war propaganda out there making it seem otherwise but Germany in 1918 was no worse off than Britain or France until the very end when clearly there was little hope of pulling a victory off.

    Usually this "bleached" look is a thing of post war rifles- EWB rifles often have this appearance- but i don't mean the use of bleach per say but rather a look as though it was bleached,- I have no idea of why its so light but personally don't like it much in so far as "originality" goes...

    MauserBill & or a few others more experienced than I may be able to offer you clues but in the end w/o a hands on its all opinion (personally I think removal of the stock may help answer some of your questions??)


    quote:Originally posted by Sarge39

    graf,
    There is no "B" to indicate Beech being used. I have not removed the stock yet, but I don"t think it was sanded. There are plenty of rough areas, and the proofs are very clear.
    I had not thought about bleach...whats a good way to tell if it has been?
    Is it possible that at this late stage in the war little, or no stain was used?
    If you need more pics, let me know.

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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 11/20/2006 : 11:57:37 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graf,
    When I remove the stock, what do I look for?
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/21/2006 : 01:07:12 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Contrast, serials, obvious signs of Weimar or foreign utilization... maybe leads to nothing but its a first easy step.

    A look at the barrel may tender a few thoughts as well.

    quote:Originally posted by Sarge39

    graf,
    When I remove the stock, what do I look for?

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    http://gewehr98.com/
    Edited by - graf on 11/21/2006 01:08:11 AM
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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 11/21/2006 : 5:19:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graf,
    I tried removing the stock, but could not figure out how to take the handguard off (lower band). I could look under the barrel though, and the barrel is numbered to the rifle, and has four Imperial proofs. The stock channel is also numbered as well, and from what I saw, the wood has the same light look as the outside.
    I"ve seen many sanded examples of 98ks, some heavy and some light, but I"m not an expert by any means.
    The bottom of the butt has quite a few rough marks from use, as does most of the stock. The grasping grooves look very even, and are not totally smooth, and the bolt cutout is also uniform, and has rough spots.
    I would think that if this stock had been sanded enough to lighten the stain that was used, there would be no "proud" areas around the usual spots. I can provide detailed pics here, or your email for a harder look, just let me know what works best for you since this is your thread.
    Even if its been messed with, I"m very happy with the old girl.
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    da1foyou
    Starting Member

    4 Posts

    Posted - 11/23/2006 : 8:07:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    i'm new to this board, and to this gun. I just got it today. I'll upload detailed pics tomorrow, but i want to see if anyone can give me some preliminary info tonight.

    It's a Simson & Co Suhl 1916. on the bolt handle is written 5337M. On the left of the receiver is written twice 640d. there are other markings but they are hard to explain. The pics i post will have all of the markings that i can find. I would like to know he history of this gun. if anyone can help it would be appreciated...
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 11/24/2006 : 12:02:28 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The lower band is held by a screw that goes through the stock, care is needed when removal as sometimes the band is banged up & will scratch the handguard, plus as one who see more than one 98a will note the handguards are fragile & a great many are cracked already so handle them with care (especially when replacements are $100+ items if you can find one…)
    I see no reason for you not to be proud of the rifle, the light stock aside its not a bad price considering the muzzle cover that came with it (it looks good and they run $75-125); the sling isn’t 98a nor even German but hey all in all it was a decent deal as overall the rifle looks fine and original.

    I tend to think it not likely sanded too, at least not to the detriment of the stain or stock color.

    As for my thread, yes I maintain it but its not mine really and post as you see fit- as long as TP will tolerate this thread I will maintain it!



    quote:Originally posted by Sarge39

    graf,
    I tried removing the stock, but could not figure out how to take the handguard off (lower band). I could look under the barrel though, and the barrel is numbered to the rifle, and has four Imperial proofs. The stock channel is also numbered as well, and from what I saw, the wood has the same light look as the outside.
    I"ve seen many sanded examples of 98ks, some heavy and some light, but I"m not an expert by any means.
    The bottom of the butt has quite a few rough marks from use, as does most of the stock. The grasping grooves look very even, and are not totally smooth, and the bolt cutout is also uniform, and has rough spots.
    I would think that if this stock had been sanded enough to lighten the stain that was used, there would be no "proud" areas around the usual spots. I can provide detailed pics here, or your email for a harder look, just let me know what works best for you since this is your thread.
    Even if its been messed with, I"m very happy with the old girl.


    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    http://gewehr98.com/
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 11/24/2006 : 12:31:26 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Pretty broad question, however from your description you have a bolt m/m Gewehr98 made by the commercial firm of Simson Suhl in 1916 (their second year of production for the German military- of rifles- several commercial firms came on line for Gew98 production in 1915 for the war effort, Simson was one such firm); Simson was one of the oldest Suhl mfg of edged weapons starting in 1825 or so, they also produced firearms but as far as i am aware only in 1915 did they start producing for the military (German military of rifles); Simson is most probably the scarcest "wartime" mfg of the Gewehr98, especially 1915 & 1918 as so very few are known.
    Simson was the only German firm allowed post 1918 to mfg firearms for the German military, as they were a relatively small firm at the time they bought machines & equipment from Erfurt I believe and there for expanded its line into the P08 etc.. MO was the only other firm "officially" mfg rifles and they only a sporter line I believe? Others snuck around the Versailles treaty as best they could (many quite successfully)

    Once the well dressed nazi's came to power Simson (Jewish) changed its name to BSW, not that that helped much and eventually they sold off the P08 line to Krieghoff & later got a deal Simson couldn't refuse eventually handing over the rest to the nazis which became Gustloff during the late 30's.

    Anyway, Simson is one of my favorite mfg, as to the history of your rifle only pics will tell.


    quote:Originally posted by da1foyou

    i'm new to this board, and to this gun. I just got it today. I'll upload detailed pics tomorrow, but i want to see if anyone can give me some preliminary info tonight.

    It's a Simson & Co Suhl 1916. on the bolt handle is written 5337M. On the left of the receiver is written twice 640d. there are other markings but they are hard to explain. The pics i post will have all of the markings that i can find. I would like to know he history of this gun. if anyone can help it would be appreciated...

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    http://gewehr98.com/
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    da1foyou
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 11/24/2006 : 7:43:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    As I promised, here are the pics. They are the best detail i could get them. If anyone could help me find the "history" of this gun i would greatly appreciate it!























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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 11/25/2006 : 12:29:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    It's got a ton of history, Imperial Germany, Weimar (were it got GewM'd), early nazi era, and then probably to Spain during their lil disagreement...

    The rifle was sportered for deer getter service obviously- the bent bolt & cut down typical of such, not a lot left worth salvaging but its will continue to make a good sporter as this is the fate many such rifles took on after both world wars in the US (back then they weren't worth much to the average person/collector)


    quote:Originally posted by da1foyou

    As I promised, here are the pics. They are the best detail i could get them. If anyone could help me find the "history" of this gun i would greatly appreciate it!

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    da1foyou
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 11/25/2006 : 1:33:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    It's got a ton of history, Imperial Germany, Weimar (were it got GewM'd), early nazi era, and then probably to Spain during their lil disagreement...

    The rifle was sportered for deer getter service obviously- the bent bolt & cut down typical of such, not a lot left worth salvaging but its will continue to make a good sporter as this is the fate many such rifles took on after both world wars in the US (back then they weren't worth much to the average person/collector)



    Is there somewhere i can go that tells me what these symbols mean? I would like to have an accurate history of the gun to maybe put it on display.
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/25/2006 : 9:57:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Put it on display?? What for?

    As for the markings, what markings are you speaking of? You show acceptance markings which have no significance of note and a pile of mismatched parts all refinished most probably by Spain... your rifle is a hunting rifle nothing more, if you were especially fortunate you might get $150 for it on an auction site.

    There is a world of difference between collector grade & sporter grade as it relates to value, what you have here is a rifle that has been ruined as it relates to value and its current value is one of hunting & sporting; if the rifle were straight up as issued you might be looking at $1k and up; even Weimared maybe $350-500 but as your rifle is nothing but a hunting rifle with little prospects of restoration (re-blued, total mismatch, cut down lumber, import markings- and I could go on) its nothing more than a rifle useful for hunting & plinking...

    Nothing wrong with that but its certainly isn't a rifle worthy display.


    quote:Originally posted by da1foyou

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    It's got a ton of history, Imperial Germany, Weimar (were it got GewM'd), early nazi era, and then probably to Spain during their lil disagreement...

    The rifle was sportered for deer getter service obviously- the bent bolt & cut down typical of such, not a lot left worth salvaging but its will continue to make a good sporter as this is the fate many such rifles took on after both world wars in the US (back then they weren't worth much to the average person/collector)



    Is there somewhere i can go that tells me what these symbols mean? I would like to have an accurate history of the gun to maybe put it on display.

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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    da1foyou
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 11/26/2006 : 07:24:45 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Ok. Thanks for the info. Like i said i'm new to this rifle, and I was trying to see what it was all about. I may just go out to the range today to see what kind of accuracy i can get out of it. Thanks!
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/26/2006 : 3:37:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Glad you didn't take it wrong as these Gewehr98's make great shooter bases & they are worthwhile for hunting & such; I have 2 shooters i use all the time- one a 1918 Erfurt 98a that was sporterized long ago in Iowa (all original parts but stock is totally ruined- original stock though) & a 1943 ar rc that I carry everywhere, I use these rifles almost daily out in the boonies.

    They are rifles not worth allot but they are very worthwhile to me- enjoy your rifle!

    quote:Originally posted by da1foyou

    Ok. Thanks for the info. Like i said i'm new to this rifle, and I was trying to see what it was all about. I may just go out to the range today to see what kind of accuracy i can get out of it. Thanks!

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    bibber bert
    Starting Member

    Belgium
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    Posted - 11/28/2006 : 2:21:13 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hallo
    sorry for my bad englisch
    i have a Gew 98
    made in: Erfurt
    date:1907
    serial nr:2991 "n" "r" or "a" ??









    If possible a bit more info about "My Erfurt"
    greets

    Bert
    Edited by - bibber bert on 11/28/2006 4:25:06 PM
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    oxi81
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    Posted - 11/28/2006 : 6:52:14 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Bert, il me semble que c'est 2991a

    What do you think, Paul? Seems to be an "a", no?

    François
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    peterkuck
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    Posted - 11/28/2006 : 7:38:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit peterkuck's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    looks like an a to me also.
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    blasterboy82
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    Posted - 11/28/2006 : 8:18:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1915 Amberg
    7689 on receiver, stock, bands, buttplate, bolt release, trigger guard, front sight and rear sight base.

    Bolt body,and extractor are 4147 (and 47)

    Safety 77

    Firing Pin, bolt sleeve and plunger 21

    "roller coaster" part of lange sight and trigger 00

    Cleaning rod 01.

    Howard

    Some pics over at:
    http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topi...OPIC_ID=196554
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 11/28/2006 : 11:26:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Yes, I agree an "a" suffix; actually bumps up the known high a couple 1000!
    Before the known high for 1907 Erfurt was "207 a"

    Naturally I would lose that swivel bigtime, but what's the deal on the stock? Is the stock original to the rifle?


    quote:Originally posted by peterkuck

    looks like an a to me also.

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    graf
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    Posted - 11/29/2006 : 12:32:56 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I saw the other thread- you made out like a bandit imo!

    quote:Originally posted by blasterboy82

    1915 Amberg
    7689 on receiver, stock, bands, buttplate, bolt release, trigger guard, front sight and rear sight base.

    Bolt body,and extractor are 4147 (and 47)

    Safety 77

    Firing Pin, bolt sleeve and plunger 21

    "roller coaster" part of lange sight and trigger 00

    Cleaning rod 01.

    Howard

    Some pics over at:
    http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topi...OPIC_ID=196554

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    bibber bert
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 11/29/2006 : 03:54:30 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    quote:Originally posted by graf

    Yes, I agree an "a" suffix; actually bumps up the known high a couple 1000!
    Before the known high for 1907 Erfurt was "207 a"

    Naturally I would lose that swivel bigtime, but what's the deal on the stock? Is the stock original to the rifle?


    quote:Originally posted by peterkuck

    looks like an a to me also.




    Hallo
    the stock is not original!!
    today visited my dad, asked about the Erfurt and his father(my granddad)told him the history long time ago.
    i know now that the original stock was brooken and have been replaced.
    the Mauser is from father to son, and my father give the erfurt e few years ago to me.(granddad has died years ago)

    the black parts on the stock? I really dont know this is, but a friend think it is likr blood, but i dont believe this.

    almost all number are same, but not the firingpin.
    and i dont have sling, or cleaning rod.
    the Barrel is not closed or damagged.
    again , sorry for mij mad englisch, but i hope you unterstand my explanation

    Bert
    Edited by - bibber bert on 11/29/2006 08:40:19 AM
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    graf
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    Posted - 11/29/2006 : 1:48:02 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Your English isn't bad at all, when I lived in Florida my neighbors were more "English" challenged I can assure you (and they were born here)

    The early Erfurts are a bit elusive to say the least, and I like the "been there" look yours has. A sling, cleaning rod & muzzle cover will be difficult to find in nice "original" condition, none will be cheap (original rods are often $40 plus unless you stumble across a deal; slings are $100 easily if nice; & muzzle covers $75-125)

    Thanks for sharing your rifle, always great to see a new high serial!


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    Edited by - graf on 11/29/2006 2:03:18 PM
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 11/29/2006 : 6:50:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I think the staining on the stock is from a rusted in place trench cover..it looks the part to me from seeing this effect previously. Stock has been refinished , but at least it was not chopped up.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    elastic limit
    Starting Member

    3 Posts

    Posted - 12/10/2006 : 12:13:27 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I'm new to these boards and don't know much about Mausers, but here's one for the record:
    Gew 98, Amberg, 1915
    #8857 all numbers match, except cocking piece, safety, FP spring, all of which were missing.
    Stock is marked with letter "N" and ser# just behind rear sling swivel.
    On the reciever, barrel, and bolt there is a (letter?) under the serial #. I assume this is a manufacturing code for lot #? It looks like a little loop or curl, or a lowercase "e" with a tail sticking out to the left.
    A "C" is stamped into the top of the stock next to the barrel ser#. There is an "S" on top of the barrel just behind the rear sight, and a 7,91 just ahead of the reciever ring (caliber?)
    There are 3 symbols stamped on the right side of the reciever (2 the same, one different).
    The story I got from my friend is that his grandfather picked it up "off a dead German".
    I can provide images if they would help, and I would appreciate your contacting me with any info you can give me or point me to.
    Thanks.
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 12/10/2006 : 04:53:41 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    e-man ; buy the peice and not the story ( you've probably heard that maxim before ). Is this Amberg a flat sight post WW1 rebuild ?. If it is all blued and has a 98k type rear sight it's a post WW1 rebuild. If receiver and bolt are in the white and it has the Lange Visier rear sight it likely is still imperial era ( pre 1919 ). Pics help alot.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    elastic limit
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 12/11/2006 : 02:09:13 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have attached 2 photo montages showing some of the relevant markings.
    The rifle was given to me by a friend, the story came with it.
    The reciever was in the white, although now most of the exposed parts are brown due to handling and neglect before I got it.
    I replaced the missing/broken parts (Firing pin, safety, cocking piece, and firing pin spring), so now it is theoretically in working condition, although the bore is badly rusted. I am trying to clean it up and see if it is shootable. Beyond those parts, all numbers match except (upon closer scrutiny) the rear barrel band, which is marked "52", and the 5 looks like it is stamped over something else.
    I can supply higher quality images for the database if necessary. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, and I am happy to be able to contribute to the database.

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    graf
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    Posted - 12/11/2006 : 03:40:25 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Better friends don't come along...

    Looks like a fine rifle from what you show, and as long as the story came without additional expense I see no reason to worry over it.
    Just what ever you do don't harshly clean the metal or stock, someone just recently got their mittens on another 1915 Amberg and put the whammy to it (probably will work itself out but harsh chemicals have no place for restoration work); Ambergs are anything but rare however it isn't everyday a nice 1915 Amberg comes along either, certainly not a rare combination but better than a 1916 or 1917 any day of the week.

    You did well from the looks of it- nice pics by the way!

    If you have any specific questions ask away- the suffix below the serial number is part of the serial number and it’s an "e" block imo (the known high is still the KCN high, a "u" block)


    quote:Originally posted by elastic limit

    I have attached 2 photo montages showing some of the relevant markings.
    The rifle was given to me by a friend, the story came with it.
    The reciever was in the white, although now most of the exposed parts are brown due to handling and neglect before I got it.
    I replaced the missing/broken parts (Firing pin, safety, cocking piece, and firing pin spring), so now it is theoretically in working condition, although the bore is badly rusted. I am trying to clean it up and see if it is shootable. Beyond those parts, all numbers match except (upon closer scrutiny) the rear barrel band, which is marked "52", and the 5 looks like it is stamped over something else.
    I can supply higher quality images for the database if necessary. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, and I am happy to be able to contribute to the database.

    Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
    http://militaryriflejournal.com/

    http://gewehr98.com/
    Edited by - graf on 12/11/2006 03:43:16 AM
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    tonys
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    27 Posts

    Posted - 12/18/2006 : 11:43:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    new to the site,picked up two gew98's from an old gent this past summer i notice there are not many C.G.Haenel so here goes.C.G.Haenel-SUHL-1916 #7265r number matching bbl.all small parts stamped 65,unfortunetly bolt does not.no turk marking anywhere but seems to have a turk stock.next one mauser obie 1917 #z1984v total #mismatch but still nice rifle.
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    colfi
    Starting Member

    Australia
    2 Posts

    Posted - 12/19/2006 : 7:08:02 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have three GEW98's, two by Erfurt and one that is a re-work. Both the Erfurts are marked with all the usual crowns/Eagles and acceptance markings etc. Both are dated 1916 (unusual??) serial numbers are, 473 a and 5654 aa.
    the re-work is in standard GEW98 configuration and has both Imperial Eagle 14 and Republican eagle H stamps on the butt, the stock has side sling features similar to the later K98, serial number 7290 on action and barrel, the makers name has been poished off the receiver bridge and the action and barrel and all metal parts have many Nazi eagles and acceptance markings, The bolt is turned similar to the K98. regards Colfi
    colfi
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    colfi
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    Posted - 12/19/2006 : 7:14:24 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    oops, I forgot to add, the re-work has some regimental markings on the barrel and the butt, the butt markings are 8/JR 16 43, hope this helps.
    colfi
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    graf
    Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member

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    Posted - 12/19/2006 : 10:25:55 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    You sure those aren't Kar98a rifles?

    Dual suffix is a large leap for an "war time" Erfurt Gewehr98?? It's generally assumed Erfurt Gewehr98 production was minimal or by & large sterngewehr...

    Your "rework" sounds intriguing though rather a Kar98b not a Gewehr98... Detail the "rework" more or pics all the better!

    Why do you assume a rework? (could be certainly but off hand I didn’t read much that set that thought off… well except the nazi remarks)

    quote:Originally posted by colfi

    I have three GEW98's, two by Erfurt and one that is a re-work. Both the Erfurts are marked with all the usual crowns/Eagles and acceptance markings etc. Both are dated 1916 (unusual??) serial numbers are, 473 a and 5654 aa.
    the re-work is in standard GEW98 configuration and has both Imperial Eagle 14 and Republican eagle H stamps on the butt, the stock has side sling features similar to the later K98, serial number 7290 on action and barrel, the makers name has been poished off the receiver bridge and the action and barrel and all metal parts have many Nazi eagles and acceptance markings, The bolt is turned similar to the K98. regards Colfi

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    Edited by - graf on 12/19/2006 11:24:51 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 12/19/2006 : 11:23:08 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I remember the thread & thanks for contributing it here as well; too bad the stock but they can be found with some diligence.

    Your Turk job have the "z" prefix? Or is that a typo?

    Thanks again!


    quote:Originally posted by tonys

    new to the site,picked up two gew98's from an old gent this past summer i notice there are not many C.G.Haenel so here goes.C.G.Haenel-SUHL-1916 #7265r number matching bbl.all small parts stamped 65,unfortunetly bolt does not.no turk marking anywhere but seems to have a turk stock.next one mauser obie 1917 #z1984v total #mismatch but still nice rifle.

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    tonys
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    Posted - 12/20/2006 : 9:25:22 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    for graf,its not the haenel its the 1917 oberndorf that has a non cursive z between the imp.stamp and serial#1984 the cursive v is under the ser.#
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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 12/23/2006 : 2:55:12 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    DWM 1916, all matching down to the screws, including the cleaning rod! Unmessed with stock, and receiver in the white with a good patina. The stock is Walnut, but what does the "B" mean?
    Also, any idea of what the "Z" means on the front sight post? I looked everywhere, and there are no Turk, or CZ marks, and the front sight is marked with the last two digits of the serial#. Came with the original sling, that is in very good condition. No unit marks that I can find. Bore is excellent with strong lands, and very shiney. Santa came early!


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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 12/23/2006 : 9:09:52 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Forgot to add these pics of the buttplate, and receiver proofs.
    Any idea what the marks are for on the buttplate?

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    graf
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    Posted - 12/23/2006 : 9:46:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Sorry to say I can't help on much of your query; one see's this small "B" in this location on early DWM beech stocks (I suspect yours is a beech stock... they can be tricky at times, take the b/r out & peek inside?) this small "B" in this upper location shows up "around" the "s" block minimally on DWM beech stocks and into the dual suffix for 1916 DWM; by 1917 the large "B" is where it usually is (low)... can't say i have studied this allot but those are my current observations and certainly no set rule or firm standards (I don't have enough rifles WITH datasheets to be more firm as most rifles I have on file are mere skeletons data wise, - most don't give enough data to make firm rules on the finer details...)

    The "Z" can't say I have noticed this before?

    The buttplate markings are generally considered depot markings and no one to my knowledge has deciphered them yet- meaning or whether they are for sure depot markings. I will say these markings can be illuminating as sometimes Saxon cyphers show up and I think it lends credibility to the depot line of thought?

    I too think your rifle is straight up Imperial, at least from what you show, - thanks for contributing the pics!

    MauserBill or someone else more knowledgeable might have better answers for your queries?

    quote:Originally posted by Sarge39

    DWM 1916, all matching down to the screws, including the cleaning rod! Unmessed with stock, and receiver in the white with a good patina. The stock is Walnut, but what does the "B" mean?
    Also, any idea of what the "Z" means on the front sight post? I looked everywhere, and there are no Turk, or CZ marks, and the front sight is marked with the last two digits of the serial#. Came with the original sling, that is in very good condition. No unit marks that I can find. Bore is excellent with strong lands, and very shiney. Santa came early!


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    Sarge39
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    Posted - 12/23/2006 : 11:16:28 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    graf, I did take the rifle apart for inspection/cleaning, and found no other marks indicating use from another country. The closer I look at it, the more I think it may be Beech instead of Walnut, but don"t Beech stocks have grasping grooves?
    My friend in Germany posted the "Z" question on a German site to see if he can get an answer. He thinks the mark might mean Zentriet, as in the sight may have been centered? If I hear anything more on this, I"ll let you know.
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 12/24/2006 : 11:06:03 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I think the "z" thing is reading more into something than it should. All gew98's are proofed there whether it be a fraktur proof or a standing alpha letter. My feeling is this is just a proof DWM used as oppsed to the fraktur more commonly seen on other manufacturer's.
    Same pretty much gos for the buttplate markings. Nearly all my gew98's and those I have seen have a myriad of such markings on the buttplate. These may be 'final' inspection proofs , or more likely applied at the depots distributing them. Either way to me it's inconsequential to the overall picture.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
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    solman
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    Posted - 12/31/2006 : 1:50:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    bert,graf, i have a dwm 1916 gew98(m). bolt m/m. all matching less that, marked S/42k, on the LEFT side of the barrel. HAS a swivel on it also. i also have a S42G,gew98(m) amberg 1917, has just the 'WW1' type rear sling attach point. ive had my hands on a couple of these types and noticed alot of small differences.
    i wish we could discuss the gew98(m)conversions!
    bert, is yours a conversion? i noticed the ww2 rear sights on it. look under the rear sight, by the wood line for a S42k or S42g. man if that rifle could talk!
    Trompe la mort
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    graf
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    Posted - 12/31/2006 : 6:48:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Left side of the barrel or rear sight sleeve? These "conversions" come in other than k & G dates and were done much earlier (20's) the replaced part was basically the rear sight assembly but you can find typical German rework methods employed where scrubbing/re-numbering, upgraded rear bands, blue job, and a few other minor things done which are typical of these "Gew98M" rifles.
    These were not done in 1934/35 necessarily and that marking is only indicative of the date the parts was made, the part/upgrade most probably could have happened anytime then or much later (just like on a lot of things dated- barrels for instants)

    Feel free to discuss these rearsight upgraded rifles as they are certainly interesting to me and many others- at least if they are "German", I don't have the slightest interest in Spanish jobs but some of the other less intrusive may also be interesting, even a Turk can be interesting as are someof the Polish/Czech tinkered rifles.


    quote:Originally posted by solman

    bert,graf, i have a dwm 1916 gew98(m). bolt m/m. all matching less that, marked S/42k, on the LEFT side of the barrel. HAS a swivel on it also. i also have a S42G,gew98(m) amberg 1917, has just the 'WW1' type rear sling attach point. ive had my hands on a couple of these types and noticed alot of small differences.
    i wish we could discuss the gew98(m)conversions!
    bert, is yours a conversion? i noticed the ww2 rear sights on it. look under the rear sight, by the wood line for a S42k or S42g. man if that rifle could talk!

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    NavyGunner
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    Posted - 01/11/2007 : 01:06:27 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1903 Danzig, S/N 9599 M , standard proofs, bolt handle renumbered to match all other bolt parts unmarked, stock and handguard matching to themselves, mismatched trigger guard and bands and rear sight.

    I also recently picked up a Brno Gewehr 1898, S/N D 8186 but wasn't sure if it belonged in your survey.

    Graf, Here's the pics of the receiver you asked for.

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    NavyGunner

    I'm a political refugee from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts
    Edited by - NavyGunner on 01/22/2007 7:31:49 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/11/2007 : 10:23:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    NG; believe it or not this isn’t a high for this year, we have a “n” block but very appreciated all the same, do some pics of the right receiver acceptance markings if you can? What I would like is clear pics of all rifles, top, right & left receiver minimally if possible.

    As for your query, possible an armorer’s replacement but pics would tell, - if its not a “salvaged” bolt (which is easy to tell, typically the old serials are lined out, rarely scrubbed “during” the war) then its very possible some of the small bits got skipped, though all armorer parts will have acceptance markings so you should see fraktur marked “proofs” (not really proofs but as everyone want to use the word why not?)
    I would examine the parts closely, if these acceptance stamps are not present & not worn off then its unlikely “German” but possibly Czech or similar, they used circle z in hidden spots occasionally and sometimes minimally so can be hard to see, the extractor will have it near the base away from the business end, the sleeve will have two usually right next to the serial, etc..
    Often times abbreviated serialing is done on salvages, reworks and location can vary from the top flat to ball of the handle; lots of variations but the bolt minimally should be serialed.

    Look at the bottom flat, armorer bolts always have at least the acceptance, used bolt have the f/p, minimally it will have at least one acceptance if German.

    The Brno though interesting is not part of the survey, thanks though!

    quote:Originally posted by NavyGunner

    1903 Danzig, S/N 9599 M , standard proofs, bolt handle renumbered to match all other bolt parts unmarked, stock and handguard matching to themselves, mismatched trigger guard and bands and rear sight.

    I also recently picked up a Brno Gewehr 1898, S/N D 8186 but wasn't sure if it belionged in your survey.

    ---------------------------------------------
    I recently picked up this 1903 dated Danzig arsenal Gewehr 1898, the serial number is 9599 M. It's the earliest date one that I've ever seen for sale. The bolt has been renumbered on the handle but the other parts have no numbers or acceptance marks. Could this be an armorers replacement bolt? It's in pretty good shape but mismatched with the stock and handguard matching to themselves, mismatched trigger guard, floor plate, barrel bands and rear sight.



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    nra10230
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    Posted - 01/15/2007 : 9:33:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    i hope this is stuff you are looking for and is useful:
    1908 danzig- german rework(s42 sight base)EWB-then spanish reworked with rec/barrel marks heavily buufed and barely discernable as is EWB(heavily sanded) but MP8 rt buttstock,match barrel,rectrigger guard,others mm and a mm BENT bolt-S# 59xx,rt rec german proofs barely there, bolt#*^*
    1918 obren. total mm, very clean 90% plus gun,imperial stamp on bolt root turk stamp rec, s stamp barrel shank S# 27xx, lange sight
    1918/1920 danzig S#69xx,S?42K below site base on rt,match triggerguard others mm, bolt imperial mm,front band with lined out # and then one below it
    1917 obren match except bolt(imperial stamped), S# 92xx all 3s usually seen are present
    1917 obren mostly match(mm bolt)german rework-tangent sight,imperial mm bolt s on barrel shank,usual markings present, no tuking seen S#59xx
    1916 amberg mostly mm(barrel,rec triggerg. match)lange sight S#44xx,usual proofs there,no turking seen,rec in white
    hope this is what you can use. LMk if more needed. mostly common,plain jane partial matched guns. spanish is a mystery and it is in 8mm.
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    Wolfsburg
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    Posted - 01/16/2007 : 01:14:54 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    You're already aware of mine, but...

    1917 Oberndorf
    s/n 1940n(?)
    Appears to be in full Imperial configuration and not reworked
    All matching EXCEPT-stock, rear stock band (though stock and rear band match each other, s/n 7814)and possibly bayo lug.
    Edited by - Wolfsburg on 01/16/2007 01:16:13 AM
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/16/2007 : 1:58:09 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hard to tell but you don't mention suffixes? Need full serials, x's are ok but kind of necessary to have the suffixes to make use of the data- the suffix is part of the serial number.

    Thanks for the post though.

    quote:Originally posted by nra10230

    i hope this is stuff you are looking for and is useful:
    1908 danzig- german rework(s42 sight base)EWB-then spanish reworked with rec/barrel marks heavily buufed and barely discernable as is EWB(heavily sanded) but MP8 rt buttstock,match barrel,rectrigger guard,others mm and a mm BENT bolt-S# 59xx,rt rec german proofs barely there, bolt#*^*
    1918 obren. total mm, very clean 90% plus gun,imperial stamp on bolt root turk stamp rec, s stamp barrel shank S# 27xx, lange sight
    1918/1920 danzig S#69xx,S?42K below site base on rt,match triggerguard others mm, bolt imperial mm,front band with lined out # and then one below it
    1917 obren match except bolt(imperial stamped), S# 92xx all 3s usually seen are present
    1917 obren mostly match(mm bolt)german rework-tangent sight,imperial mm bolt s on barrel shank,usual markings present, no tuking seen S#59xx
    1916 amberg mostly mm(barrel,rec triggerg. match)lange sight S#44xx,usual proofs there,no turking seen,rec in white
    hope this is what you can use. LMk if more needed. mostly common,plain jane partial matched guns. spanish is a mystery and it is in 8mm.

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    graf
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    Posted - 01/16/2007 : 2:04:05 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Yes, I did see this one, nice rifle and good deal imo, I generally am trying to get away from m/m anything but I would have dropped $400 on your rifle as well... It's a better deal than most are acknowledging, -not a steal or anything but a better than average deal imo.


    quote:Originally posted by Wolfsburg

    You're already aware of mine, but...

    1917 Oberndorf
    s/n 1940n(?)
    Appears to be in full Imperial configuration and not reworked
    All matching EXCEPT-stock, rear stock band (though stock and rear band match each other, s/n 7814)and possibly bayo lug.

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    Wolfsburg
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    Posted - 01/16/2007 : 2:28:13 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks, Graf. I'm certainly proud of her, but hopefully I'll get an all-matching example in the future.

    Also, I guess I should note that the suffix apparently is a "k" or possibly "h", not "n".
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/22/2007 : 10:02:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the pictures, much appreciated!

    quote:Originally posted by NavyGunner

    1903 Danzig, S/N 9599 M , standard proofs, bolt handle renumbered to match all other bolt parts unmarked, stock and handguard matching to themselves, mismatched trigger guard and bands and rear sight.

    I also recently picked up a Brno Gewehr 1898, S/N D 8186 but wasn't sure if it belonged in your survey.

    Graf, Here's the pics of the receiver you asked for.


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    johnjohn
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    Posted - 01/25/2007 : 11:05:34 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I hope that this one will help.

    Receiver marked as follows:

    WAFFENFABRIK
    MAUSER A-G
    OBERNDORF A/N
    1905

    Just below the "K" of waffenfabrik is what looks like an imperial eagle stamp.
    Above the "waffenfabrik" stencil is an upside down triangle with the letters FR inside it (Polish Rework?)

    Bolt marked V1 with a circled Z under it. (polish rework again?)

    On the right side of receiver are three "germanic" stamps, can't make out.

    On left side of reciever is a stamp then K8230 with a cursive "b" below it. Left side rail has GEW 98.

    Barrell numbered 8230 with an "s" below it. Underside of barrell is numbered H 76X S (all on top of another). Top of barrell, before receiver are six to seven symbols like greek letters (?).

    Rear site is tangent leaf numbered 8230, but above it is the numer G 147(A?) With what looks like a World War II proof mark next to it (eagle 280?)

    Trigger Plate underside, below second screw, is numbered 8230, but above that is the number 4898(the second eight is large) with a line through the numbers.

    Inside the stock and the back shoulder metal plate is numbered 308. Other numbers and symbols are on stock, but can't make out.

    Right side of stock, before but plate is engrave letters EWP or EWL in old fashioned letters.

    Take Care,

    johnjohn
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    graf
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    Posted - 01/26/2007 : 2:14:24 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Interesting rifle, -the discrepancy between the serials suffixes?? Can you do images? If not you sure the cursive b isn't an "S" as often the case the style can be deceiving and have had this problem especially with Amberg incursive s/b variations...

    The EWP is very interesting, and I have had some discussions about such markings, love to see it if you have that ability? Is it typical of the EWB style burnt in the stock or?

    Seen this once across the top of a receiver and that is kind of odd to my way of thinking regarding such markings as these EWB/EWP militia type markings are something one would expect as in your application rather than stamped in the receiver... EWP isn't seen much in the US assuming this is what I think it is.
    Too bad the stock doesn't seem to match the action, though with Polish rework that isn't a surprise either.

    Do some images- more the merrier.
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    johnjohn
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    Posted - 01/29/2007 : 10:26:34 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    Dear Graf,

    Hope these help.

    Johnjohn


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    TheRedMax
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    Posted - 02/01/2007 : 10:03:21 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi there,

    new to this forum - found it whilst doing a search for "Erfurt 1915".

    My friend asked me to take a rifle off his hands as he was worried about the legality of it. Im in the UK, you see.

    Anyway - I took it off his hands and it's a very badly damaged Mauser Karabiner 98AZ (i beleive!)

    Like i said - it's stamped Erfurt 1915 and has several serial numbers stamped over it (4752). Unfortunately I know very little about this rifle and was wondering if anyone would be able to help me.

    As i said - it's in awful condition - missing the woodstock both above the barrel and below at the front. As well as being no stacking rod or bolt, which is a shame.

    More to the point - for some reason - the back and bottom of the buttstock has been cut away at a slight 30 degree angle. Anyone know why this may be?

    Anyway - any help is much appreciated!

    Max
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    graf
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    Posted - 02/01/2007 : 2:57:34 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I have a friend in the UK who owns rifles, a hassle to be sure but possible (at least for now).

    As for this rifle only pictures can tell the condition or possibilities of its past but off hand it sounds like a typical sporter; will be tough getting a bolt in the UK I suspect, and wood is tough for the Kar98a no matter where you live.

    Sounds to me the rifle is not worth the effort required to restore it if that is the purpose? As for the rifle itself a 1915 Erfurt (Kar98a) is not rare or scarce though it is a bit tougher to find than later years… wartime production of the Kar98a increased during the war and every year towards 1918 is less “scarce” (1915 is common, 1916 more so, 1917 even more so & well you get the idea..) that is not to say “original” straight up Imperial Kar98a are not valuable as similarly to the G33/40 phenomena sportsmen took a keen interest in using the 98a for hunting rifles and consequently you find a boat load of them in all sorts of states of f’d up…

    Do some pics- at least give a shot of the top/right/left receiver.


    quote:Originally posted by TheRedMax

    Hi there,

    new to this forum - found it whilst doing a search for "Erfurt 1915".

    My friend asked me to take a rifle off his hands as he was worried about the legality of it. Im in the UK, you see.

    Anyway - I took it off his hands and it's a very badly damaged Mauser Karabiner 98AZ (i beleive!)

    Like i said - it's stamped Erfurt 1915 and has several serial numbers stamped over it (4752). Unfortunately I know very little about this rifle and was wondering if anyone would be able to help me.

    As i said - it's in awful condition - missing the woodstock both above the barrel and below at the front. As well as being no stacking rod or bolt, which is a shame.

    More to the point - for some reason - the back and bottom of the buttstock has been cut away at a slight 30 degree angle. Anyone know why this may be?

    Anyway - any help is much appreciated!

    Max


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    Mike Rockhill
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    Posted - 02/28/2007 : 10:47:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gewehr 98 Oberndorf 1916 6238x. matching beech stock, with trench cover stains. bolt M/M. many small parts M/M from another rifle. Has rod and sling gizmo.
    I'm broke, and I blame Imperial Japan
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    graf
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    Posted - 03/06/2007 : 1:32:29 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Is the suffix "x", - I assume the x is an x suffix?

    Sounds like an interesting rifle.


    quote:Originally posted by Mike Rockhill

    Gewehr 98 Oberndorf 1916 6238x. matching beech stock, with trench cover stains. bolt M/M. many small parts M/M from another rifle. Has rod and sling gizmo.

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    BadFox
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    Posted - 03/15/2007 : 10:14:33 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit BadFox's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Forgive my bad English! My rifle Gewerhr98 Spandau 1900 ¹434

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    Walnut Stock not on the rifle.Rifle was found without a mother tree. Walnut Stock bought in USA from rifles Later no lining at the barrel

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    Edited by - BadFox on 05/04/2007 1:32:10 PM
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    graf
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    Posted - 03/16/2007 : 1:15:28 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I suppose this means you obtained or bought the rifle without a stock, as I don't understand the "mother tree" reference?

    As someone suggested on your handguard request, the 98k handguard will certainly do and in Russia I suspect you have a great many to choose from? Original walnut handguards can be tough to locate & expensive, especially with a clear Imperial linage, expect to pay $20 plus for one if you can find one.

    What is the serial number of your rifle? You show everything but the serial data! 1900 Spandau was a busy year for Gewehr98 production; we have half a dozen on our database with images, plus a good number of written reported rifles.


    quote:Originally posted by BadFox

    Forgive my bad English! My rifle Gewerhr98 Spandau 1900 ¹434

    Walnut Stock not on the rifle.Rifle was found without a mother tree. Walnut Stock bought in USA from rifles Later no lining at the barrel

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    BadFox
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    Posted - 03/16/2007 : 1:47:38 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit BadFox's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    This rifle has serial number 434 on all metal parts.The rifle was changed by me on Belgian over-and-under Demulen and i found it in time of restoration the wood house where it was in a hiding place most likely from the First world war.The stock has been got in USA but from later model of a rifle. Much better stock without space under fingers of a hand.
    Edited by - BadFox on 03/18/2007 07:12:24 AM
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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 03/16/2007 : 3:59:09 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Fox dude......intended or not , your lack of grasp of english is quite entertaining !.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    007alex
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    Posted - 03/18/2007 : 2:09:39 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Dose anyone here know how many 1916 Mauser Gew.98.s were produced by Mauser. Any production numbers out there. I always wanted to know. Thanks. I have one myself, dated 1916 with the 3344x serial number. It's an "x" block so that gives me an idea, but other than that, I don't know much.


    Alex
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    ----Alex
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    graf
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    Posted - 03/18/2007 : 3:21:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Alex;
    Naturally I can't give an official estimate of Mauser Oberndorfs production, Dr. Storz may have this figure in his book though I can't say as to that as my copy was only paid for yesterday and I don't have it in hand yet.
    I can say that from our observed serial numbers for my study (based on in part MarkW work for the KCN as many of the known highs are reports from that serial data) Mauser Oberndorf went into the ll "LL" block in 1916 (this is a KCN serial, 7652 ll, my database high is an "ee" block and the KCN high may very well be an "ee" block imo though only time will tell which is more accurate, “e” & lower case “L” often look much the same.

    One thing is for sure; Mauser Oberndorf went at least to the "ee" block in 1916.


    quote:Originally posted by 007alex

    Dose anyone here know how many 1916 Mauser Gew.98.s were produced by Mauser. Any production numbers out there. I always wanted to know. Thanks. I have one myself, dated 1916 with the 3344x serial number. It's an "x" block so that gives me an idea, but other than that, I don't know much.


    Alex

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    007alex
    Gunboards Super Premium Member

    314 Posts

    Posted - 03/19/2007 : 03:45:44 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the info, graf.


    Alex
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    ----Alex
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    mowzerluvr
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    Posted - 04/14/2007 : 7:12:46 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1916 Danzig ser.# 3355y bolt m/m non import. Was a display piece in the local VFW for a very long time.

    mow.
    Talk is cheap, because supply almost always exceeds demand.
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    graf
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    Posted - 04/16/2007 : 1:57:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks mow, sounds like an interesting rifle (from the G/K thread); you should do a spread on the rifle so we can see one of these vanishing treasures, i suspect a lot of these are gone- most of the old VFW members passed awhile back and I wonder how many of these trophies still remain in VFW halls?
    As for Danzig, they were one of the bigger producers and one that there is not a lot of information on, I believe even Storz gave them little coverage which is unfortunate considering their production numbers from 1899-1918 -with but a couple lapses (apparent lapses.. no reported production 1909 & 1910- though 1911 once was thought to have no production and an "a" block popped up so possibilities exist??)


    quote:Originally posted by mowzerluvr

    1916 Danzig ser.# 3355y bolt m/m non import. Was a display piece in the local VFW for a very long time.

    mow.

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    JuergenG
    Gunboards Member

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    73 Posts

    Posted - 05/04/2007 : 11:34:02 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1916 Mauser Oberndorf 8618w, mismatched but cheap
    1915/1920 DWM Berlin 1576m
    1917/1920 Mauser Oberndorf 2037a
    both Reichswehr conversions w/ flat rear sight.
    No pics of the latter 2 yet.




    Kar.98a Erfurt 1909, serial 131, matching except stock (post 1915 replacement)

    Juergen
    One Mauser at a time!
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/04/2007 : 1:08:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Regarding the 1917/20 Mauser Oberndorf, what is its condition? Has it been Weimar reworked? I know most are but if the stock is original what is it made of?

    I have an interest in any 1917/1918 Mauser Oberndorf that stayed in German service and is still "original" to it's Imperial mfg as maple stocks "seem" to be more prevalent on them... long shot but if your rifle has the "original" stock have a look?

    Thanks for the serials!


    quote:Originally posted by JuergenG

    1916 Mauser Oberndorf 8618w, mismatched but cheap
    1915/1920 DWM Berlin 1576m
    1917/1920 Mauser Oberndorf 2037a
    both Reichswehr conversions w/ flat rear sight.
    No pics of the latter 2 yet.

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    P264
    Gunboards Member

    20 Posts

    Posted - 05/05/2007 : 10:30:32 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here is DWM 1917, serial number 6734 (no suffix). It is all matching except for the firing pin assembly and the cleaning rod. It appears to have only two of the expected three inspection stamps on the right side of the receiver. What is the significance of this?

    I also have Erfurt 1905, serial number 1789a. It has a mismatched bolt. The stock is adapted from another Mauser model, although the hand guard is original with its matching number.

    Marc

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    The Great Billdildoe
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    Posted - 05/06/2007 : 10:00:58 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Marc ; what's up with the stock ?. It looks to be a ww2 98k laminate stock the action is sitting in.As well the recoil crossbolt has been removed and installed backwards.
    The lack of factory proofs on the r/s of receiver could indicate the receiver was farmed out as a spare for the depot system where it got "used" hence the lack of factory proofs.
    Anyhow if the barrel has been shortened , stock mismatch - have a broadside pic of rifle and one of the buttstock ?.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
    The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
    Winston Churchill.
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/06/2007 : 4:24:06 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    This is the second 1917 DWM with two acceptance on right receiver, it too a no suffix rifle- the vast majority have 3 as per one would expect... Bill is certainly correct imo.
    DWM isn't alone in this practice, Spandau most especially seem to of stopped completing rifles in 1917/1918- probably to concentrate on the MG08/15's and the aviation brethren?

    Do more of the other aspects of the rifle, barrel, bolt & rearsight especially?


    quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe

    Marc ; what's up with the stock ?. It looks to be a ww2 98k laminate stock the action is sitting in.As well the recoil crossbolt has been removed and installed backwards.
    The lack of factory proofs on the r/s of receiver could indicate the receiver was farmed out as a spare for the depot system where it got "used" hence the lack of factory proofs.
    Anyhow if the barrel has been shortened , stock mismatch - have a broadside pic of rifle and one of the buttstock ?.

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    P264
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    Posted - 05/06/2007 : 7:58:08 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Bill - Here is a full picture of DWM 1917 serial number 6734. It looks to me to be full length and unaltered. I assume it has a Beech stock. The right side butt stock markings include a “B”, which I have read on this forum is typically found on Beech stocks. Both the stock and the hand guard have the matching serial number inside. The photo below shows the stock serial number.

    Marc

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    klaudasc
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    Posted - 05/08/2007 : 10:43:02 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi all,

    Great information here, but I am having trouble finding this one. I was given a rifle in the past couple of weeks and have been trying to research it. I do not have a lot of knowledge on this era.

    On the ring of the barrel it says Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch 1916

    On the left side of the botls it says gew.98.

    The serial number is 8516 with no suffix and I can see the 16 on various parts of the rifle.

    On the right side of the stock it has a DJB.

    Can anyone tell me some more information on this? I am not even sure what rounds it would use.

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    graf
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    Posted - 05/08/2007 : 12:46:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    K;
    That's a strange one.. looks like the barrel has a step on it but a 98a frontsight? Hard to tell much from your pics but this WOK has been hit pretty hard.

    You don't show enough to be sure of much, and the barrel could be the original one just altered (shortened?) with a 98a front sight added? (or similar- your pic is not clear enough to be sure).
    Originally the rifle fired 7.92 mm or in the US "8mm Mauser" but to be honest I wouldn't fire that thing without being sure, as an alteration to the barrel could be dangerous depending on how it was done- or by whom?

    Do images of the barrel and receiver- any markings and length of the barrel and a picture of the muzzle end.

    quote:Originally posted by klaudasc

    Hi all,

    Great information here, but I am having trouble finding this one. I was given a rifle in the past couple of weeks and have been trying to research it. I do not have a lot of knowledge on this era.

    On the ring of the barrel it says Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch 1916

    On the left side of the botls it says gew.98.

    The serial number is 8516 with no suffix and I can see the 16 on various parts of the rifle.

    On the right side of the stock it has a DJB.

    Can anyone tell me some more information on this? I am not even sure what rounds it would use.

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    klaudasc
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 05/08/2007 : 1:04:12 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Will do, I will try and get more pictures of it tonight.
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/08/2007 : 1:27:18 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Interesting rifle, and I can't say I have an answer to the two acceptance stamps, - though I do think there is more to this than we are seeing and possibly a similar situation as happened at Spandau?
    How many, if anyone, has seen a 1918 Spandau that appears to be Imperial completed?
    Dr. Storz touches on this to a degree where he seems to imply during much of 1917 Spandau switched to the MG almost exclusively? and possibly only assembled rifles (or only made receivers- essentially outsourcing the assembly?) not completing rifles beginning to end?
    It "seems" clear Spandau did make receivers (as well as sub-contracted them as well from the two known subcontractors..) so I assume most likely they didn't mfg complete rifles beyond their switch of focus to the MG08/15 during 1917?

    It is sure there are VERY few "Imperial" 1917 Spandau Gewehr98 that follow earlier patterns of Spandau mfg, most are very odd birds, depot jobs or sterngewehrs and I have not seen a single 1918 Spandau that isn't Hanover marked or post war- most are a bit off in acceptance marking.

    Lastly as far as DWM goes, in Devils Paintbrush, Spandau moved it's demand for the MG08 to DWM to focus on the MG08/15 variations and as Dr. Storz suggests DWM was a powerhouse of gewehr98 production so much similarities I think between Spandau & DWM and the farmed out aspects Bill alluded to makes sense to me for these two examples of 1917 DWM no suffix rifles with only two acceptance markings?

    Obviously with the demand for the Gewehr98 shrinking and the demand for the MG variations growing (not to mention the P08 that DWM made also high demand) it makes sense for two of the bigger powerhouses in Gewehr98 production to focus on their more important production that the new doctrine required?

    Across the board Gewehr98 production was dropping during this time frame- by the database this is clear.

    quote:Originally posted by P264

    Bill - Here is a full picture of DWM 1917 serial number 6734. It looks to me to be full length and unaltered. I assume it has a Beech stock. The right side butt stock markings include a “B”, which I have read on this forum is typically found on Beech stocks. Both the stock and the hand guard have the matching serial number inside. The photo below shows the stock serial number.

    Marc


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    klaudasc
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 05/08/2007 : 9:33:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    OK, the pictures are too big for the board, so I have the links to them below. Here are the pictures from the rifle. The length of the barrel is 20 3/4" to the ring that holds the bolt. By the look of the sight, I think something was modified.

    http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa26/klaudasc/
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/09/2007 : 1:50:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Is there a reason you don't show the serials and fireproofs? Show the serials of the receiver and barrel for a comparison and when it was fireproofed (looks blued and as we don’t have a r/s to identify it, this might give us a clue to if it went through the Weimar era with a re-barrel? Right now we don’t even know if it’s the original barrel that got cut down)- also taking it out of the stock to see the barrel markings couldn’t hurt- for you should be easy as no bands to worry over?

    The markings on the barrel will tell if this is the original barrel- the serial of the rest of the parts seem to be 8416 e, vs. you state 8516 so is that a convenient coincidence or a mistype? (the suffix might be under the woodline?)
    Obviously, assuming the barrel is original to the receiver, the barrel has been crudely shortened, not German, probably someone who put the whammy to the rest of the rifle?

    It looks like they used a real deal matching rifle if the serial you typed is a mistake as the acceptance are WOK on the bits and the font’s are consistent with other WOK (c/B up till 1917 when it changed- very few examples to go by here but it “seems” c/B was prevalent until 1917 when c/F or c/J took over much of the acceptance of bits.)- If your rifle is 8416 e, MikeF has its brother and one that is as minty as a WOK comes… I believe Mike has done images of it publicly before but if he’s reading perhaps he can show you what your rifle very possibly looked like?

    Much can be learned from this rifle still if its “matching” to the receiver as I have only 8-10 WOK on file with detailed images- if the barrel/receiver match the rest of the parts do more pictures of the rifle and barrel?

    quote:Originally posted by klaudasc

    OK, the pictures are too big for the board, so I have the links to them below. Here are the pictures from the rifle. The length of the barrel is 20 3/4" to the ring that holds the bolt. By the look of the sight, I think something was modified.

    http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/aa26/klaudasc/

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    klaudasc
    Starting Member

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    Posted - 05/09/2007 : 2:11:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Are they easy to disassemble? Like I said, I don't know much about these at all and not sure how to get to the other markings. The serial was a mis-type from memory, as you can see in the pictures, it is 8416. I will try and get more tonight and take it apart. I will also take full shots of both sides.
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    klaudasc
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    Posted - 05/09/2007 : 2:12:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Are they easy to disassemble? Like I said, I don't know much about these at all and not sure how to get to the other markings. The serial was a mis-type from memory, as you can see in the pictures, it is 8416. I will try and get more tonight and take it apart. I will also take full shots of both sides. Where would I find the fireproof?
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    graf
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    Posted - 05/09/2007 : 2:58:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    The Gewehr98 is very easy to disassemble; especially if you have no bands to worry over (sometimes they can be a hassle and you need a block of wood or brass to encourage one along); the only worry from the looks of it in your case is the screws- use the right size screwdriver and use extreme care or you'll mar the heads or worse slip and hurt yourself or the rifle.
    Usually the screws will come right out with little effort (if you remember to remove the locking screw) though on some closet queens they can be difficult!)

    quote:Originally posted by klaudasc

    Are they easy to disassemble? Like I said, I don't know much about these at all and not sure how to get to the other markings. The serial was a mis-type from memory, as you can see in the pictures, it is 8416. I will try and get more tonight and take it apart. I will also take full shots of both sides. Where would I find the fireproof?

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    Waffenschmied
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    33 Posts

    Posted - 06/04/2007 : 6:02:38 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Waff. Oberspree - Kornbusch 1917 (#1537h) G98 to 98k
    Amberg 1909 (#806a) Kar 98
    Erfurt 1916 (#4091) Kar 98
    Sauer & Sohn 1916 (#3818) G98
    Oberndorf 1917 (#6517) G98
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    graf
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    Posted - 06/05/2007 : 1:51:58 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    W;
    Your Mauser Oberndorf "German" or Turk? If either and matching stock what is the stock made of? This is the rang where we find the funky substituted stocks (so far)

    I remember the WOK auction, sorry to hear you have that one... that seller pushes a lot of misrepresented rifles imo.

    quote:Originally posted by Waffenschmied

    Waff. Oberspree - Kornbusch 1917 (#1537h) G98 to 98k
    Amberg 1909 (#806a) Kar 98
    Erfurt 1916 (#4091) Kar 98
    Sauer & Sohn 1916 (#3818) G98
    Oberndorf 1917 (#6517) G98

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    jcdavison
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    Posted - 06/08/2007 : 01:34:30 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1. Kar 98a Danzig 1914 sn 3714 with no letter code. All matching.
    2. Gew 98 Amberg 1917 sn 5058 N. Bolt is mis-matched and blued with no numbers on bolt. All other parts match. The typical S/42G marking is on the barrel.
    3. Gew 98 Danzig 1903 sn 3689 with letter code "O". All parts mis-match, retains the ski slope sight.

    Hope this helps
    John Davison
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    graf
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    Posted - 06/08/2007 : 6:28:28 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    JC, great contribution!

    The third 1914 Danzig 98a reported, two others are imaged and verified and yours is in the middle, - very scarce rifle even though they are reported into the high "a" block.. sounds like a keeper!
    The Amberg, is the "n" a suffix or has another meaning as I can't be certain the way you phrased the post?
    The 03 Danzig is damn near the high for that year, highest reported that I have verified is in the "n" block but the KCN has a higher one than yours also in the "o" block; still all in all I follow MarkW advice on high serial numbers so yours help! (I only change a "high" if there are three "reports" or a visual confirmation but as yours is in the "o" range it firms up the KCN high as we have a "n" block too which makes 3 in close proximity..)

    Anyway, thanks for the post!

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    jcdavison
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    Posted - 06/09/2007 : 5:54:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Even the screws on the Kar 98A are numbered. It appears that the stock was burned on one side sometime during the 93 years that it has been around. Will provide more pictures as I become more confident.



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    jcdavison
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    Posted - 06/09/2007 : 7:00:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    More pictures of the Kar 98A. Trying to learn how to use the camera and software at the same time makes for a full day.

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    graf
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    Posted - 06/10/2007 : 01:49:26 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    JC; a fine looking rifle, quite the keeper too!

    Makes the third confirmed 1914 Danzig and that is something to state as John Walter and every resource I have prior to my database suggest such as your rifle doesn't exist!

    Prior to the discovery of an earlier 1914 Danzig in the late "a" block these were not believed to exist and all I can say is the more the merrier... a scarce to rare rifle and a fine looker from what you show!

    Thanks again! Such discoveries are what make supporting this thread worthwhile- so much blather one needs to navigate to find the pearls such as your, and its always a pleasure to see one in such good form!

    quote:Originally posted by jcdavison

    More pictures of the Kar 98A. Trying to learn how to use the camera and software at the same time makes for a full day.

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    54ole
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    Posted - 06/11/2007 : 9:05:34 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    1918 Oberndorf, in mostly original configuration. SN #: 8027 d, Imperial proofs on right side of stock, and right side of receiver, both barrel bans, and follower. Added crescent moon on top of receiver ring, unfamiliar proof on left side of receiver ring, and very small "R" prefix added to serial number
    Phil Olson
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    loosenuts
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    199 Posts

    Posted - 06/30/2007 : 10:54:13 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Hi everyone, I only have one to add....
    This is a 1917 Simson & Co., Suhl I picked up from a very old lady that stopped at a local gunshow to see if anyone would be interested in it.
    The story is her uncle brought it over from Poland and began farming here in NE Pa. It looks like someone sanded the stock and metal, but I love it anyway!
    Most parts match except the bolt and rear sight, and it's missing the HG and bolt release. The bore is awesome considering how old it is, and I had to replace a broken firing pin.
    I'm not sure of the markings, but tried to get some decent pics and would appreciate any help.

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    USAF Crew Chief C-141A Starlifter '75-'79
    Fight crime- Shoot back!
    God is my Pilot
    '70 W31 Olds Cutlass
    Edited by - loosenuts on 07/04/2007 06:32:19 AM
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    graf
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    Posted - 07/03/2007 : 1:29:08 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Always pleasing to see a Simson pop up on a thread; as far as war timers can be considered desirable Simson is up there if not tops along with the expediencies one encounters time to time...

    Simson Suhl went to the "g" block both in 1916 & 1917 minimally, pretty dismal numbers for most mfg, though understandable for what their role was by 1917 as described by Dr. Storz.
    Will be tough nuts to find a proper e-box but they are out there... too bad on the m/m bits as well but a decent rifle overall and as far as observed Simson Suhl rifles go they are rare to find exceptional. (most seem to have been used extensively, - I suspect the Saxon's spent a lot of time in the trenches from the looks of most Simson rifles I have encountered.)

    If you have a specific question ask away, but not sure what else I can say to your query without specifics.. value is probably $300-400 considering, maybe less as sanding and missing bits really hurt value of rifles. (though one never knows and if you run across a couple "loosenuts" on AA/GB you might get more? Or a Simson fanatic like myself might value it more? Hard to say without detailed pics- yours are not bad by the way, nice & large like I like them!)

    Thanks!

    quote:Originally posted by loosenuts

    Hi everyone, I only have one to add....
    This is a 1917 Simon & Co., Suhl I picked up from a very old lady that stopped at a local gunshow to see if anyone would be interested in it.
    The story is her uncle brought it over from Poland and began farming here in NE Pa. It looks like someone sanded the stock and metal, but I love it anyway!
    Most parts match except the bolt and rear sight, and it's missing the HG and bolt release. The bore is awesome considering how old it is, and I had to replace a broken firing pin.
    I'm not sure of the markings, but tried to get some decent pics and would appreciate any help.


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    Wolfsburg
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    Posted - 07/06/2007 : 12:45:30 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I already posted this a while back in another thread but...

    1918 Erfurt Kar. 98a with serial number "209 t".

    It is all matching, but when I posted it earlier, there was concern that the bolt has been renumbered and may not even be German (Polish?). The bolt is not blued nor is the follower, which doesn't have any bolt hold-open function. Excepting the doubts about the bolt, the carbine seems otherwise to be in Imperial configuration.
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    paulaud
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    Posted - 07/06/2007 : 12:33:26 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Karabiner 98a, Erfurt 1917, N° 6589 kk.
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    graf
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    Posted - 07/06/2007 : 1:07:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I remember your rifle, and its in a typical Weimar German fashion as any I have seen beyond the bolt acceptance/proof; I had thought to comment on it then but the fact is the rifle is identical to most any "German" Weimar job you'd encounter, that the acceptance on the bolt is odd proves little in my eyes, certainly has some similarity to Polish rifles I have seen but it is very unusual to find a Polish utilized "German" rifle not altered or reworked and that yours doesn't show anything that I have seen to identify conclusively its Polish I wouldn't be too keen to jump on that potato cart just yet...

    First I’d take it apart and view the barrel, and image the rearsight better, I'd pop the bolt apart too..

    Very possibly it’s a Polish bolt (though it doesn't follow the ones I have seen any better than the Weimar acceptance- not especially knowledgeable on Polish rifles but I do follow them in my files and yours doesn't look especially similar to any I have images of or seen in hand), but on a good number of Weimar reworks I have seen unusual "x" (or letter, or whatever) or odd markings that defy explanation to the standard product that left the factory.

    Bottom line is you don’t show enough to determine if its Polish utilized imo, and for that to even be guessed you’d need “outdoor” quality pics (hard to say if the bolts blued? The follower notched? Barrels tell more about a rifle than almost any other part and I don’t believe you’d showed that yet?)

    I will say someone reworked it, bolts replacement, and stock sanded, - which is typical of many Weimar reworks, and to be expected on a non-Imperial 98a.
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    Wolfsburg
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    Posted - 07/06/2007 : 3:06:22 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks for the reply! I guess I need to read up more on what constitutes a Weimar rework. I'll try to get some pics of her broken down. I was thinking bubba (or a "restorer") simply found a correct "looking" bolt and renumbered it to match the rest of the carbine. It didn't really occur to me that it was renumbered in any official capacity. What are some tell-tale signs the stock has been sanded? I thought I knew but perhaps I don't.
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    graf
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    Posted - 07/06/2007 : 3:44:54 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Weimar reworks generally have a lightly sanded stock, blued bolts, largely re-blued in many cases, even so far as a blued buttplate.. the bolt on an Imperial 98a should be bright, often the first digits are added to the bands etc, and force matching (re-struck serials) or scrub and re-number is common to Weimar rather than the Imperial style which rarely scrubs old serials.

    As for sanding it looks smoothed wood and lighter, generally signs of a sanding, - though in this rifles case I wouldn't have said sanded on those two features alone, I said it looks sanded because the bolt cutout is rounded and it should originally have been a sharper edge.
    Often the edge on the cutout is the identifier from pictures, that and the wood to each side of the receiver is often smoothed.

    That yours is only rounded at the cutout makes me thing Weimar as they often do a light sanding, and the dumbarses who "clean" up and prettify the deer getter versions go to town across the board, utterly ruining the stock.


    quote:Originally posted by Wolfsburg

    Thanks for the reply! I guess I need to read up more on what constitutes a Weimar rework. I'll try to get some pics of her broken down. I was thinking bubba (or a "restorer") simply found a correct "looking" bolt and renumbered it to match the rest of the carbine. It didn't really occur to me that it was renumbered in any official capacity. What are some tell-tale signs the stock has been sanded? I thought I knew but perhaps I don't.

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    Thorin O
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    Posted - 07/26/2007 : 7:33:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply

    All-matching (even the buttplate) numbers. Receiver ring marked "Waffenfabrik Mauser A.-G.
    Oberndorf A/N
    1918" .

    Does have crescent above ring markings. "S"-marked barrel. Stock appears to be beech, w/ light flecking throughout (see pics. Ser# 6434. Imperial markings on both sides of receiver ring. "Gew.98" on left rail.

    http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p...lViewRight.jpg
    http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=RcvrRing.jpg
    http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p...hankLeft-1.jpg
    http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p...tRcvrStock.jpg
    http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p...lShankLeft.jpg
    http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p...loseupLeft.jpg
    http://s126.photobucket.com/albums/p...elMarkings.jpg


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    graf
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    Posted - 07/27/2007 : 3:38:06 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Pretty attractive Turk, matching too- actually I have never seen one legit matched to the bolt.. the Turks for whatever reason liked to scrub bolts? Or replace them with Czech jobs..

    Anyway, not a bad looker.

    quote:Originally posted by Thorin O


    All-matching (even the buttplate) numbers. Receiver ring marked "Waffenfabrik Mauser A.-G.
    Oberndorf A/N
    1918" .

    Does have crescent above ring markings. "S"-marked barrel. Stock appears to be beech, w/ light flecking throughout (see pics. Ser# 6434. Imperial markings on both sides of receiver ring. "Gew.98" on left rail.

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    fergus
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    Posted - 07/28/2007 : 05:43:46 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Gew 98M, Erfurt 1905, serial number 5673a. 1920 treaty marked on butt. BSW rebarrel. S/42G marked tangent sight base. I'll post some photos in the forum when I get some time.
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    graf
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    Posted - 07/29/2007 : 2:50:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Fergus; sounds like an interesting rifle, especially with Simson being one of my favorite subjects!

    That is near the high for that year, and the rifle sounds intriguing, I look forward to your photo spread!


    quote:Originally posted by fergus

    Gew 98M, Erfurt 1905, serial number 5673a. 1920 treaty marked on butt. BSW rebarrel. S/42G marked tangent sight base. I'll post some photos in the forum when I get some time.

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    fergus
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    Posted - 07/30/2007 : 6:54:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Here are a few photos of the Gew 98M:



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    graf
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    Posted - 07/31/2007 : 2:58:39 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Very nice, love the BSW business, not terribly common for barrels and if you ever have the opportunity do some more detailed shots of the barrel markings- very interested in any Simson/BSW related logo's coding etc.. as most know my thing is Simson Suhl and anything along the lines of Simson Suhl or BSW Suhl is especially welcome!

    By the way, can you make out the wrist marking? I suppose a depot? Any markings on the takedown or elsewhere in the buttstock/buttplate area?

    Great pictures as always Fergus, really nice!


    quote:Originally posted by fergus

    Here are a few photos of the Gew 98M:

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    fergus
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    Posted - 07/31/2007 : 9:48:24 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Thanks Graf. No markings on the takedown disc that I can see. The wrist cartouche is the only non-Imperial marking visible to me on the stock. Almost looks like a Nazi style eagle stamped over an Imperial Crown proof. Maybe restocked after 1936? I'll see what turns up on the metal after disassembly.


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    graf
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    Posted - 08/01/2007 : 12:27:46 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Clearly a depot marking, but can't quite make it out? "Mu8" or M*8" N*8?
    If Mu8 I believe Hamboner on G/K had a similar depot gun (wartime Gustloff as I recall) on discussion and as I stated then I suspect the Munich/München Wehrkreis VII.. if you have the time look for the thread as it might reveal something helpful in the search for answers with this rifle?
    Are there any 1940-42 signs to this rifle?

    quote:Originally posted by fergus

    Thanks Graf. No markings on the takedown disc that I can see. The wrist cartouche is the only non-Imperial marking visible to me on the stock. Almost looks like a Nazi style eagle stamped over an Imperial Crown proof. Maybe restocked after 1936? I'll see what turns up on the metal after disassembly.

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    ggiorg
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    hello... my Simson ..stock, bolt and trigger guard not matching
    5905b

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    ggiorg
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    simson

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    ggiorg
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    simson

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    ggiorg
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    simson

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    The Great Billdildoe
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    quote:Originally posted by graf

    Clearly a depot marking, but can't quite make it out? "Mu8" or M*8" N*8?
    If Mu8 I believe Hamboner on G/K had a similar depot gun (wartime Gustloff as I recall) on discussion and as I stated then I suspect the Munich/München Wehrkreis VII.. if you have the time look for the thread as it might reveal something helpful in the search for answers with this rifle?
    Are there any 1940-42 signs to this rifle?

    quote:Originally posted by fergus

    Thanks Graf. No markings on the takedown disc that I can see. The wrist cartouche is the only non-Imperial marking visible to me on the stock. Almost looks like a Nazi style eagle stamped over an Imperial Crown proof. Maybe restocked after 1936? I'll see what turns up on the metal after disassembly.





    Paul ; From the picture it looks to me to be Mg not Mu. I have seen Mg10 marked in the wrist and on the buttstock of these reworked gew98's. I would be partial to it being Magdeburg (Mg ) and do think the illegible number is an inspector not a wehrkries.
    " The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
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    graf
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    Posted - 08/05/2007 : 12:38:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    Any Simson is cool, my 1917 needs an upgrade though largely matching... thanks for doing the images!

    quote:Originally posted by ggiorg

    hello... my Simson ..stock, bolt and trigger guard not matching
    5905b

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    graf
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    Posted - 08/05/2007 : 1:55:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    I see the potential for "Mg" now that you mention it, and yes several in the database have this depot marking; as to the illegible number marking comment I don't understand your statement, as I never suggested this illegible number as the "Wehrkreis" indicator, -as you will note I wrote Wehrkreis VII in my original post not VIII or 8, and in this particular case München is Wehrkreis VII or number 7, - not VIII/8;

    Magdeburg/Friedrichstadt and Magdeburg/Königsborn being Wehrkreis XI, - also unfortunately I don’t see any strong patterns to what the HZa or HNZa did or didn’t handle as far as small arms salvaging/ reworking goes for the Gewehr98 receivers, in some cases you do see some common themes to them among the depot guns, -Posen/XXI & Graudenz/XX seem to have a higher reported number of rifles based around the Gewehr98, though they also have the highest among all the rifle variants I have track of (which isn’t allot, - maybe 40-50? So hardly relevant numbers to a study), Posen (XXI) in particular seems to have a tendency to do sets in lots, for instance many of the vz24 reworks/salvages based around the vz24 receivers come from XXI/Posen though they have a good presence among reworks based upon the Gewehr98 too? (probably a product of the 1941 crunch, gathering “lots” of worn rifles/receivers for salvaging?) these earlier “Mg”, “Mü”, Su etc… probably come from an period where these depots handled the need, often under less demand (?) and later the need was transferred to other facilities (often under a more serious crisis? Where more numbers were involved? Possibly this partially explains the discrepancy in numbers seen/reported?) Impossible to say with my limited database, which isn’t exactly set up for cross era study (my nazi era and Imperial/Weimar eras are separate and not always cross study friendly)

    quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe
    Paul ; From the picture it looks to me to be Mg not Mu. I have seen Mg10 marked in the wrist and on the buttstock of these reworked gew98's. I would be partial to it being Magdeburg (Mg ) and do think the illegible number is an inspector not a wehrkries.


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    wkthomas
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    I have a J.P Sauer and Sohn Suhl 1913 in good original condition ser # 4419. Any information about this would be of help
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    graf
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    Posted - 08/06/2007 : 3:14:58 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
    That would be an extraordinary find, but I suspect its a 1915 or later?

    JP Sauer/S&S was one of the 1915 start up's and didn't do pre-war production as far as is known (not much doubt to this); if it is a 1915 JP Sauer it is still quite a find assuming original as all the 1915 start ups are fairly scarce, well except for DWM which are terribly common but that was a product of their earlier production, incredible facilities/capacity, and relationship with Mauser.

    I will say that of the Suhl start ups, S&S and VCS are the highest "reported" both to the "e" block confirmed (S&S some unconfirmed much higher which I doubt..), what is really desired is finding a confirmed Simson Suhl from 1915??? (the rarest of the rare among wartime production, nothing close really..)
    Simson got a late start and as not part of the consortium (VCS, S&S, CGH) I'm not sure how we can attribute serialing to these other Suhl mfg (the extent of their collaboration is the question, I would think the separately serialed ranges but as all 3 have very similar ranges until 1917 I am not sure how they serialed rifles.. I assume they shared resources/parts equally and this represents the range similarities but I will have to re-read Storz closer in this regard.

    What is the serial and can you do images?

    quote:Originally posted by wkthomas

    I have a J.P Sauer and Sohn Suhl 1913 in good original condition ser # 4419. Any information about this would be of help

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    END OF PAGE 12 and the thread as it existed on "The Old Gunboards"
    R.I.P.
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  2. #2
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    Default Erfurt Arsenal rear long tangent rear sight sight

    In my studies of various long tangent rear sights, I have noticed that the Erfurt rear sight leaf spring does not slide into a U slot in the sight base. Instead the spring is configured to cam under the the back of the sight base assembly. Are you aware of any other arsenals that constructed the leaf spring attachment in this manner?
    thanks,
    Mike

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    TP; looks like we will have to start over! Hard to believe my first post that started this was in January 2004, didn't seem that long ago?

    I don't see how you will be able to get, what 10-12 pages, of threads like the above! Quite cumbersome... overall the forum changes look promising and worthwhile but it sure put the whammy to these long threads!

  4. #4

    Start over?

    Perish the thought. *sigh* While the old boards are still up, anyone can save the pages along with photographs as they exist now. This can be done as an html. document or even as a Word document. There are a great many pictures that are gone due to time limits of the Forum as it existed or because the posters removed them from the Photobucket (or whatever) accounts. Sorry Paul, I have done the best I could within my limited abilities and time constraints, at least the information is there.

    The link to this thread at Old Gunboards is:

    http://old.gunboards.com/topic.asp?T...36&whichpage=1

    How long it will last I am not sure, best grab it while we can.
    Last edited by TP; 09-13-2007 at 09:31 AM.

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    I am right now combing the Swedish Military Firearms Forum, and have covered the pages 18-65 (means: have imported and transferred appropriate subjects for posteriority). When I am done, I will do the Italian Firearms Forum, and so forth.

    Suggestion:
    It would be best if a band of brothers amiably agreed who would be doing which pages. 10 or 20 people could well cover a board quickly. The only problem is that ideally, several threads with the same topic (as very frequently happens) should be combined into one. I am doing that over there, and it works quite well. Is an enormous gain of knowledge.

    Carcano

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    Graf er......I mean Simon..... Did you ever compile all of this data onto a spreadsheet database? If not, albeit time consuming, it would make for a very nice database of known surviving Gew98's.
    Bobby
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    Of course, that is the stated purpose.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldManKiller View Post
    Graf er......I mean Simon..... Did you ever compile all of this data onto a spreadsheet database? If not, albeit time consuming, it would make for a very nice database of known surviving Gew98's.

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    I don't know if the information will be of any value, but I have a Gew 98 that appears to have lead an interesting life.
    Siderail is stamped Deutsche Waffen-und Munitionsfabriken Berlin. Receiver is partially scrubbed, but "1906" can still be made out. Above the date are the letters "FB" (Radom?) in an inverted triangle. On the side of the receiver opposite the serial number is what appears to be a Polish eagle. Another Polish eagle appears on the barrel. Both the barrel and receiver are numbered 6855 (no suffix). The rest of the gun is pure mix-master. The receiver serial number is preceded by a "B" in a circle and a capital "K". There are quite a number of odd-looking stampings on the barrel, including a lower case "p", and a "Z" inside a circle. The Z inside a circle mark is also found on the underside of the bolt handle. Which doesn't match the receiver serial, but is marked "PU 2997". There is a large upper case "T" on the bolt knob itself.
    The rifle is equipped with the Lange site, and the stock seems to be WWI vintage, although newer than the rifle. There are two Imperial crown proofs on the RH side of the buttstock behind the bolt take down disc, and a large letter "B". There is a third crown proof on the underside of the pistolgrip behind the triggergaurd. Floorplate has Nazi-era waffenampts (Eagle 214).
    Old Century import marks (CAI ST ALB VT) on the muzzle end of the barrel. There are no unit markings anywhere that I can find.

    Anyhow, don't know that any of that will be of use to the database. But given the diverse markings, if this rifle could talk, I bet it could tell a tale or two.

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    Got a new Gew 98. Amberg 1904, serial number 2452 with no suffix. Regimental is U.2.68 on the stock disc. Butchered forward stock and missing both bands and bayo lug but everything else is matching.

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    Unusual unit marking on the Amberg, wouldn't have thought it on a Gewehr98? The very few Ulanen marked rifles seem to be 98a, sure it's a "U"? Sounds like a worthwhile p/u all the same.

    CJ, hard to tell exactly what you have siderail and all but you might consider doing some images and doing a thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimsonSuhl View Post
    Unusual unit marking on the Amberg, wouldn't have thought it on a Gewehr98? The very few Ulanen marked rifles seem to be 98a, sure it's a "U"? Sounds like a worthwhile p/u all the same.

    CJ, hard to tell exactly what you have siderail and all but you might consider doing some images and doing a thread?
    Confirm regimental. Lancers had to have something before the 98a, this was it. Had to turn disc over to view regi. They may have been the first to have it, but probably not the last.

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    Quote Originally Posted by p3skyking View Post
    Got a new Gew 98. Amberg 1904, serial number 2452 with no suffix. Regimental is U.2.68 on the stock disc. Butchered forward stock and missing both bands and bayo lug but everything else is matching.
    a single U without a number ahead means "Unteroffiziersschule" (NCO-school). So You could read this marking as

    NCO-School, 2. company, weapon No. 68

    best regards

    Peter

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    My 1915 Danzig is SN 6868....for the data base. Regards, Rick.

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    [QUOTE=p3skyking;18130] Lancers had to have something before the 98a,



    They did , It was the kar88 , not the gew98. Such mounted units if they had gew98's in inventory did so for rear area support/guard types.

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    Gew. 98, Danzig 1916, 309 kk
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails danz16.JPG  
    Last edited by PeterS; 10-30-2007 at 11:36 AM. Reason: Pic added

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    Thanks Peter- pretty late in the run, we have 1916 Danzig confirmed to LATE "pp" so I am sure they went to the "qq" minimally? It is very good to have these late reporting though as I really like to have as few gaps as possible in high ranges- before we didn't have a "kk" reporting, though we had several "hh", "mm" reportings.. (the idea being to have high reportings supported by several close rifles, - not an aberration? Once I can across a "ee" block 1908 DWM that justified MarkW statement that high's should be supported, as for the longest time it stumped me why there were several "ee" pre-war DWM running amuck?? As it turned out, these were LuftAmt jobs reserialed!)

    Interestingly enough we have a "rr" for 1916 Danzig mentioned last August that I didn't follow up for personal reasons, perhaps if KenL is handy could you elaborate on you're "rr" sighting for 1916 Danzig? (this reporting I “think” maybe the “8424 pp” I know Ken has? This is a matter of some confusion! Not the least because I may be wrong or perhaps Ken? There are 3 letters that have not been confirmed with certainty- “r”, “n”, and “p” I have a decent picture of an “r” and I am fairly certain of its appearance, which is easy to differentiate between the three.. the other two have issues in similarity and they often are reported incorrectly- well some are undoubtedly misreported as I have the same font reported as both! What is needed is a firm “p” or a firm “n” that doesn’t fit the mold of the reported example, which I think is a small case “p” though could be a “n” as is so often reported? )

    Or better yet do a short datasheet, observation for the MRJ?

    I hope this makes sense.. got kind of convoluted re-reading it! By the way Peter, you get the last MRJ? (October2007? I sent you a 3rd, I don't usually do that many!)

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterS View Post
    Gew. 98, Danzig 1916, 309 kk

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    Rick, as I pointed out in your thread with images, there is a suffix on that rifle- it is at the woodline and that is part of your serial number- if you can remove the stock and give the full serial that would be much appreciated.

    Danzig is an interesting maker, not so much because of rarity or scarcity, they are anything but however there is so little known about the arsenal, - even Storz offers little on the subject. There are several oddball things about their production some of which we have covered before, - and most we have no answer for - if you have the time take images of everything on your rifle (top/right/left receiver, barrel code, any markings on the receiver below the woodline.. these areas all can help tell a story and establish patterns, these areas are also the least exposed when new collectors seek answers, which is a shame especially with Weimar/nazi era rifles as this is where questions are often answered..)


    Quote Originally Posted by sakorick View Post
    My 1915 Danzig is SN 6868....for the data base. Regards, Rick.

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    Yo Paul,

    Images of 16 Danzig serial 8724rr. No clue on 8424pp, I did not report that one---perhaps we are confusing the same rifle? I'd love to see this thread resurrected, as it has been the most informational thread in regards to the gewehr98 anywhere on the internet.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails gewehrG.JPG   gewehrD.JPG   gewehrE.JPG  

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    Oops, forgot the money shot! Barrel & receiver serial 16 Danzig 8724rr.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails gewehrF.JPG  

  20. #20
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    Another 16 Danzig, serial 3355y. Bolt only m/m 'war bond' gewehr---plugged crown and chamber, ground bolt face. Came off a VFW hall wall in NH.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails P1010124.jpg   16_danzig_a.JPG   P1010114.jpg   16_danzig_e.JPG   16_danzig_g.JPG  

  21. #21
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    Yes, this is the 8424 pp I thought you were referring to back in August; you didn't show enough to be sure and you referenced xx24 rr with your pics, at the time I never followed it up with you as June-Aug were bad times for us here..

    Anyway, these are "p" rather than "r" imo, though it could be "n" which it is often reported as? We have one "r" reported for 1917 Danzig and though the picture is not especially wonderful it is clear they used a font much like a typed "r" for "r".. if you look through fraktur charts this "appears" to be more a "p" to me than a "n" but I thought this a perfect time to discuss this as both PeterS and CB understand German and have studied the subject as well as any I know and I thought their insight might prove helpful (as CB recently pointed out collecting period German/English dictionaries are a good idea for researchers?).

    As one can tell, images of the suffix is VERY important to determine range, a report with an improper suffix is worthless to a database (only that Ken & I have shared data extensively did I have a good idea of the rifle he was referring to..)? I have half a dozen charts that breakdown the fraktur type lettering (another name is used but escapes me at the moment) and even these charts don't agree so that we have used different letters is no surprise!

    Anyway, insight from CB or PeterS might resolve this dilemma? (usually not so important knowing with certainty the letters but in 1916 Danzig's case the reported high is in this range, and we have several reported)


    Quote Originally Posted by madboy357 View Post
    Oops, forgot the money shot! Barrel & receiver serial 16 Danzig 8724rr.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by madboy357 View Post
    Yo Paul,

    I'd love to see this thread resurrected, as it has been the most informational thread in regards to the gewehr98 anywhere on the internet.
    By the way, yes I too am glad TP took the time to resurrect this thread, not only the best thread on the Gewehr98 throughout the entire internet but also the best thread on gunboards as a whole- of course I am slightly bias on the subject..

  23. #23
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    may be this one will help...

    it is named "Deutsche Kurrentschrift" and in my understood these are the "official" Letters....

    but some characters are nor easy to differ...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 524px-Deutsche_Kurrentschrift.jpg  
    Last edited by PeterS; 10-30-2007 at 03:56 AM.

  24. #24
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    Thanks Peter, indeed it does, - typical of about 3/4 of the charts I have available it doesn't fit my "p" scenario, though it doesn't support others either?

    I have a good number of similar charts, Noll, Götz, and a few others easy to obtain are good for those with an interest, as is a internet search.. my favorites are Ken Huddles chart and one by Don Hallock's which I use most often as I like to use "collectors" charts over book or internet charts simply because of experience matters when utilizing observation over book/reading fonts? (Jeff Noll has a decent chart but its small and I think came from a book- memory here? Ken's & Don's are large!)

    Anyway, here is a cut from Ken's chart that covers the three potentials (to my thinking), I believe CB once suggested another interpretation for some of Ken's observations (my Spandau thread a few months back) and that is fine but I still prefer Ken's observations until something better comes along.. right now when I have a quandary I pull them all out and review other rifles of the same era/mfg and try to make a determination.

    In this case I am just waiting for the right 1915-1917 Danzig to come along with a different "p" or "n" to settle this question for me; until then I will call it a "p" but maintain an open mind to other potentials.

    Thanks for the reply- and the chart!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2.jpg  

  25. #25
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    Default Histories of 251 Divisions

    For those interested in researching their unit marked rifles......."Histories of 251 Divisions" is now available in searchable PDF format for free on google books. Link:

    http://books.google.com/books?id=ly4...Ern9kY#PPP1,M1

  26. #26

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    Hope this one helps you some. My hand rendering of the suffix is crude, at best, but is pretty close.

    The bolt body seems to have an "i" suffix (9481 i).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Gew98002.jpg   SSuffix.jpg  

  27. #27
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    Very nice! Simson barrel.. even has the logo!

    DO more pics if you've a mind to? Also a date for the Mauser Oberndorf would be great! (can’t catalog w/o a date- As always on all reporting I like to see as much as possible but primarily, top/right/left receiver, barrel coding rearsight marking if tangent.. ) the development of barrel code tracking for the database has really taken me in a interesting direction and I am really following the sub-contractor and barrel blank providers- most importantly for the Weimar era reworks through nazi era.

    On rifles such as this it is especially important to see the barrel coding, tangent markings, and right receiver, as these are important spots for data collection. Though on straight ups the right receiver is also important as with the revelations from Dr. Storz book (highly recommend if you can afford the monster book) and my tracking right receiver acceptance marks some patterns are being seen.

    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by ekopwoc View Post
    Hope this one helps you some. My hand rendering of the suffix is crude, at best, but is pretty close.

    The bolt body seems to have an "i" suffix (9481 i).

  28. #28

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    I'll do what I can. What is the Simson logo, btw. This is an old closet resident that's been hidden away for many years. Never gave it much mind since it was not matching. 1917.

    I'll get back with a few photos.

  29. #29

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    OK, let's try this.

    Is a beech stock common for a rifle of this era?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Gew98.jpg   LRec-Bbl.jpg   Leftside.jpg   RRec.jpg   Recdate.jpg   Stock.jpg  

    Bolt.jpg   SSuffix.jpg   Gew98008.jpg  

  30. #30
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    beech is very common to 1917, or after.. they start in 1916 but we have at least one that is 1915 and that is extraordinarily early.
    Of course does the stock match? As its been reworked it very well could have a new stock from its later rework. (what does the rearsight look like- image the markings under the sight rail); the Simson logo is to the right of your barrels serial number, this varied from time to time and product to product, generally a triangle/mountain with an "S" inside, size limitations made the full logo impractical I assume as the full logo most encountered is a mountain range of 3 triangles with a "S" inside the prominent center triangle.. of course there is also the stand alone "S" which some collectors are accused of attributing everything "S" to Simson though other makers at certain times used for whatever purpose (Mauser for example uses "S" variations similar in narrow ranges.)

    Anyway, the e/6 is also the most common Simson Suhl acceptance stamp- and most consistent throughout 1923-1932 production though I can't say there is any "great" work that explains the multitude of Simson attributed acceptance marks- one could make an argument for sub-contracting here but that is another subject altogether.

    Weimar/Reichsheer era is the least well understood or researched imo, - much work to be done I think, - even a Dr. Storz saw fit to end his research at 1918!

    If you have the inclination, do images of any markings on the buttstock (wrist markings if any, takedown disc or buttplate- clues to reworking may be found here if present at all) the rearsight will very possibly narrow the reowrk down some too, any markings on the rearsight sleeve besides the 8mm import marking?

    Thanks for the effort on images, very good of you!

  31. #31

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    Thanks for your comments. I'll try to get you some more info tomorrow. The stock is almost sans markings.

  32. #32
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    Very typical, though if there is any reworking facility indicators it will usually be found on the wrist, buttstock, takedown disc or buttplate.. This is an earlier rework, - the rearsight might help date it or identify it possibly, though as the barrel is Simson acceptance/made and the f/p is early you have a feel for time frame, just as with any rework the bigger the picture and the fuller the puzzle fills the better "guesses" will be!

    Cool rifle- though I am slightly biased toward Simson SUhl..

  33. #33

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    I envy your understanding of these weapons. I obviously need to work on my skills. If it was a Russian or Chinese SKS, I could probably hold a reasonable conversation.

    If the Sun comes out today, I'll get some more, better photos. It's very gloomy out now.

  34. #34
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    Everyone has their passion, unfortunately mine is one you can't make much money at!

    In reality I am somewhat a novice myself at all this, only since 1999 have I collected the Imperial side, started with Weimar and up to 1939 production since 1984 and that did help some as I have found out recently the period 1888-1945 is very closely connected in most ways, - most things that collectors with a narrow focus don't understand is most things were developed or at least considered much earlier, - sub-contracting a great example..

    There are some collectors with great depth of understanding, far more advanced that I have a grip on things but by enlarge they are lurkers or refrain from comment/contribution, possibly because of time restraints, possibly because of the public nature of this venue, the lack of reciprocation, or possibly the daycare center escapees that run amuck on the forums?
    Whatever the reason, it is no secret the most knowledgeable amongst us are lurkers, only brought out by catching their attention with something special or especially intriguing being discussed?

    Didn't use to be that way.. even the newsletters don't attract them enough to participate anymore, I am having to drop 3 of the very best collectors I know of next issue.. very unpleasant.

  35. #35

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    Interesting. I've been in SKS's for a few years and have noticed the same thing. There are a lot of guys out there who are really versed in SKS's but who tend to lay low much more than they used to. They're still there and speak out when an interesting one comes around (happens often with SKS's) or when one of our daycare newbies suggests something dangerously stupid.

    Well, I separated the wood from the metal (perhaps the first time this under-metal has seen the light of day in decades.

    The stock has only one external marking that I can see and that's just a little mark which looks more like a punch-mark than anything. It is just aft of the trigger group. The inside of the stock has a serial # 5280 (not matching) and then another apparent serial # 5286 (also not matching) which is handwritten.

    I've included pictures of these, as well as 3 other pictures you might want to see. I have quite a number of others, if you want.

    I think I'll clean this one up and leave it as is. It's in almost as good condition as my M96 Swede and I likes it's character. Wish I knew where it had been. The only question I have in this regard is - Is it proper to return the appropriate parts to "in the white" as was original, or should they be left in their re-arsenaled condition?

    Edit - This rifle is a hoot. It looks as though an awful lot of good rifles gave their lives to see that this one made it out of the scrapheap. It's like everybody pitched in one part. It is such a cur that I think I will keep it.

    Part & S#
    Receiver 9052
    Barrel 9052
    Bayonet lug un-numbered? 1?
    Trigger guard 7030
    Trigger guard screws 29 & 69
    Trigger 63
    Follower 18
    Floor Plate 30
    Front barrel band 1873
    Stacking hook N/A
    Front sight 52
    Rear sight leaf 2062
    Rear sight base 38
    Rear barrel band 58 (47?)
    Ejector box 79
    Bolt root 9481
    Safety Z?
    Cocking piece 03
    Gas shield 86
    Firing Pin ?
    Extractor 31
    Extractor Collar ?
    Stock 5286 Handguard 7574
    Butt Plate 1212
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Gew982059.jpg   Gew982050.jpg   Gew982045.jpg   Gew982039.jpg   Gew982031.jpg   Gew982018.jpg  

    Last edited by ekopwoc; 12-01-2007 at 02:36 PM. Reason: add handguard s#

  36. #36
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    Yes, it is quite mismatched!

    The barreled receiver is the only original bits, that and the sleeve of the rearsight..e/6 is typical of Simson Suhl work and very likely this rifle was reworked there though most of the datable indicators are gone from the looks of it? (sometimes on the rearsight there are acceptance stamps that can be narrowed slightly.. of course the chicken f/p is early too..) Any more of the barrel would be lovely as I do collect barrel codes where ever possible..

    As to reversal to bright/white I wouldn't even consider it.. I do tinker with screwed up rifles, parting them out and even scrapping some but I always try to keep original original wherever possible. (in this case I wouldn’t dinker with the barreled receiver/sleeve, - the rest is fair game if it were mine..)
    Of course the rifle is your property and anything you do is alright by me- some get downright nasty about alterations, even altering rc 98k people think a crime?? – never get over how people rationalize their stands on things!

    Any hoo, nice barreled receiver and thanks for sharing the data!

  37. #37

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    When I get home from work tonight, I'll check out any barrel markings for you and send them if I see anything else.

    My question about the bluing was generated because I had read somewhere that the bolt and a number of other parts left the factory "in the white". I was concerned about going back that way because I didn't want to give the impression that everything matched (for those that can't read little bitty numbers).

    Thanks for your time.

  38. #38
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    Yes, this rifle when it left the factory (in this case the receiver is all that is original to this time frame?) it was white/bright finished; the bolt would have been too, the barrel would have been blued.
    Once it was reworked by Simson Suhl (most probably) it could have been either or as I have heard several references to when bluing started on reworks, but needless to say at some point it was blued, - probably late 20's?
    That it has a Simson post war barrel most would assume it was blued when re-barreled/reworked as so far in my files I have not encountered a Simson re-barrel not blued?

    If you were interested in a representative "Imperial" Gewehr98 you could do this as your rifle is in perfect configuration for this (well except for the tangent r/s), but really to find a righteous Imperial mismatch is fairly easy, and to alter this one would hardly be worth it I would think?

    Hell half the time you can't even tell an Imperial Gewehr98 has a bright receiver! They patina over time and I have seen some as dark as allot of blued Weimar jobs!

    Thanks again!
    Last edited by SimsonSuhl; 11-26-2007 at 12:51 PM. Reason: I wanted to

  39. #39

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    You had mentioned something about rear sight markings. FYI, this is what I see:
    On the right side down on the barrel are three eagles (1st photo)
    The 3rd photo shows a "K", "38, "t", and what looks very much like a horizontal capital
    "H" with a vertical capital "P" inside one side of the H and "74" in the other. This may
    simply be a rectangle with a vertical line dividing it in two and the "P" in one box and
    the "74" in the other. This is repeated on the sight spring.
    The 4th photo shows an eagle on the right side elevation button.

    You also mentioned barrel markings other than those on top behind the rear sight. Here is all I've found:
    The 2nd photo shows a 2nd "8MM" just forward of the upper handguard on the left
    side. Other than the aforementioned 3 eagles on the right under the rear sight and
    the stuff on top, that's it.

    Well, I appreciate the time you have taken. I learned a few things and I guess that's what it's all about. Thanks.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Gew982059.jpg   Gew982010.jpg   Gew982045.jpg   Gew982024.jpg  

  40. #40
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    Thanks for taking the time to detail the b/r further! If only others would take this much interest we'd know more I think.. most its pulling teeth to get a serial needless to say a barrel code!
    The balance of the rearsight (the sleeve is original to the barrel, as might the other e/6 part possibly) has later mismatched parts on it, and they are easy enough to remove (than the sleeve) hence they probably were by some country post war, the P74 is a later acceptance than Simson's existence, 34-35 Mauser as I recall, 34 for sure..)

    Anyway, thanks again!

  41. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by SimsonSuhl View Post
    Thanks for taking the time to detail the b/r further! If only others would take this much interest we'd know more I think.. most its pulling teeth to get a serial needless to say a barrel code!
    The balance of the rearsight (the sleeve is original to the barrel, as might the other e/6 part possibly) has later mismatched parts on it, and they are easy enough to remove (than the sleeve) hence they probably were by some country post war, the P74 is a later acceptance than Simson's existence, 34-35 Mauser as I recall, 34 for sure..)

    Anyway, thanks again!
    You're welcome!

  42. #42

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    I'm baaaaaaack! Bet you thought you were through with me.

    I forgot to ask you a very basic question. You keep mentioning barrel codes and I keep forgetting to ask you exactly what you mean (I'm old; you'd be surprised how often that excuse works).

    In my case, is that the Simson triangle; the "K27S" or simply the manufacturers name? Thanks, and I'll let you alone (until I find another rifle).

  43. #43
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    Simson logo I would associate with the barrel “maker”, - the barrel code K27S the barrel blank provider/lot; usually one associates a date to these codes but I don't believe so as this is the typical set up and though in your case "27" indicating 1927 fits nicely, - though in many other cases it doesn't.. seen several much higher numbered- just yesterday a friend pointed me to a K38S which would be quite impossible for Simson as the Simon brothers were one of the few fortunate Jews to get out of Germany very early and by 1938 were probably skinny-dipping at Venice Beach? By 1938 Simson Suhl no longer existed so I discount the repeated thoughts these are date indicators and rather are steel lot numbers? (K=Krupp? A known/popular barrel blank provider Imperial era, though the IMKK had their microscope up Krupps backside 1922-27 as likely as any?)
    Meaning unclear but I am recording them as best as I can! Documenting Simson products isn't easy, and they generally seem to have random markings with no apparent pattern (typical enough for most German rifles) however it can't hurt to keep track!

    Thanks again!

  44. #44

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    Thanks. If I see any in gun shows, I'll try to make a record for you.

  45. #45

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    For what it's worth, it cleaned up well.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Gew98restored001.jpg  

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