Gew98 Research - Page 27
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Thread: Gew98 Research

  1. #1171
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    RS=right side (of buttstock), the wrist is the key in most cases, as is the lower acceptance under the buttstock, they are stable, pretty much, within ranges. The RS stock acceptance typically varies between a number of inspectors within ranges. Apparently large operations like Erfurt (they don't get bigger) had a lot of inspectors moving in an out, but a few inspectors were stable (the wrist in particular)

    Typically m/m bolts and m/m stocks cut rifles value in half, I think m/m stocks hurt worse though. Many will buy a bolt m/m if otherwise a fine rifle, but many collectors will not buy a stock m/m unless it is depot correct (that is why so many hump stocks to look reworked, - wood is easy to fake, and many collectors will take a depot repaired rifle at a steep discount, few like total stock m/m rifles)

    Sg98/05 are most common imo, but a type II Sg84/98 is seen often. Only the Sg98 (long bayonet) is uncommon in period pictures.

    Yes they are heavy fully stocked, but when cut down they are extremely light, that is why so many were chopped up through the 1960's, it is still a much handier rifle than a Gewehr98, which can be a chore maneuvering with. I like them both also, especially the late 1917 and all 1918 dated, these rifles were getting priority by then because of changing doctrine, - who knows, your rifle might have been in the hands of a stormtrooper (trench raider)!

  2. #1172
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    so many folks got shiny, purdy new Remchesters but all Santa Claus brought me was some ninety-nine year old (almost) Mauser turnbolt.....sigh.











    no import stamp, mismatch bolt but Imperial, muzzle crown is very nice but I had to look at it for two years because the shop owner would not price it and would get cranky when I asked.

    a few weeks ago I was looking for a twelve gauge pump for my stepson and the shop owner finally priced it.......just as I was starting my Christmas shopping. I could not pass on it. I actually put my 1899 Obie Swede 96 long rifle on the trader to finance it but got no bites so I paid cash and went to selling a lot of my vintage car parts (thirty years worth of hoarding) as well as some vintage uniforms and vintage gun parts on ebay to make up the difference which I did and then some !
    Old Godziller, he lives over there in Jay-pan and that's a long ass commute just for a beat down.

    I identify as "transfinancial" because I am actually a rich man living in a poor man's body. Please give generously so that I can transition into my true being !!!

  3. #1173
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    A very nice looking rifle, like many Simson's it is a Saxon rifle, - these Simson's are tough to find matching and in nice condition, apparently Saxony used their's G98's heavily.

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  5. #1174
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimsonSuhl View Post
    A very nice looking rifle, like many Simson's it is a Saxon rifle, - these Simson's are tough to find matching and in nice condition, apparently Saxony used their's G98's heavily.
    thank you, sir and glad to know it! I had a few Gew88s with the Bavarian crown and I should not be surprised that other German states marked their rifles in some fashion but I never thought about it!

    the serial number on this weapon is 869* f if that helps your research .
    Old Godziller, he lives over there in Jay-pan and that's a long ass commute just for a beat down.

    I identify as "transfinancial" because I am actually a rich man living in a poor man's body. Please give generously so that I can transition into my true being !!!

  6. #1175
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    Now that is a Saxon beauty!!


    QUOTE=gew88guy;3191713]thank you, sir and glad to know it! I had a few Gew88s with the Bavarian crown and I should not be surprised that other German states marked their rifles in some fashion but I never thought about it!

    the serial number on this weapon is 869* f if that helps your research .[/QUOTE]

  7. #1176
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    Indeed it does, w/o the serial I couldn't use the information as my research is organized around the serial number; have you a picture of the right acceptance stamps? I could use them very much now that I have a serial number to include it.

    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by gew88guy View Post
    thank you, sir and glad to know it! I had a few Gew88s with the Bavarian crown and I should not be surprised that other German states marked their rifles in some fashion but I never thought about it!

    the serial number on this weapon is 869* f if that helps your research .

  8. #1177
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimsonSuhl View Post
    Indeed it does, w/o the serial I couldn't use the information as my research is organized around the serial number; have you a picture of the right acceptance stamps? I could use them very much now that I have a serial number to include it.

    Thanks!
    I am happy to oblige, sir, and eager to throw a few more details at you for (I hope!) your comments! I must ask: specifically what cartouche causes you to assign Saxony usage to the weapon? I am entirely clueless and wish to know!





    Old Godziller, he lives over there in Jay-pan and that's a long ass commute just for a beat down.

    I identify as "transfinancial" because I am actually a rich man living in a poor man's body. Please give generously so that I can transition into my true being !!!

  9. #1178
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    "Suhl3" shows the cypher for Saxony, Simson had a lengthy relationship with Saxony and according to Storz they were instrumental to getting Simson working as a manufacturer of the G98. Not all are Saxon marked though, but many are.

    Quote Originally Posted by gew88guy View Post
    I am happy to oblige, sir, and eager to throw a few more details at you for (I hope!) your comments! I must ask: specifically what cartouche causes you to assign Saxony usage to the weapon? I am entirely clueless and wish to know!

  10. #1179
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    Here is my latest, a very worn 1914 Spandau with unit markings. The S/N is 3088 over what appears to be a script "o". The stock proofs are pretty far gone, but hopefully they can be of some use. Let me know if you need any more pictures. I would greatly appreciate any additional info you can give me about the proof marks as well.
    cheers
    sam
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  11. #1180
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    A very interesting rifle if an "o" block (which it does look like an "o", but it doesn't compare especially well with a Spandau/15 "o" suffix, the tail is slightly off by comparison); typically there are no supporting rifles this high for this year, pre-war Spandau production was conservative, usually in the 30-40k range up until 1914, when they started to ramp up production into the 70-80k range (early h block). There is one report of an "n" block Spandau/14, from a reliable & knowledgeable collector, but it is not confirmed, so it is possible we just haven't seen another rifle between the "h" block and the "n-o" block, but that is a good jump.

    The acceptance on the right side is good for Spandau/14, though it varies widely, but this acceptance pattern is recorded for them, and it is not typical of 1915 production, so the rifle was originally made in 1913 (often a receivers date is not when it was made). The barrel code fits a late Spandau too, the other Bismarckhutte blanks from earlier Spandau/14's have lots within a reasonable range from this one if it is actually an "o" block.

    I would be curious to see the stock better, is it serialed to the rifle? I can't really make out the acceptance well, but this unit marking seems like off an earlier rifle. I have little to go on with dating rifles by unit marks, only a small fraction of rifles have their original unit marked stocks to form a database, but no others are from this IR in this range except a Danzig/06 marked to the 31IR, and Carter suggests the AK was armed between 1902-04 (by his bayonet research). It is not a big issue for my research, too few unit marked rifles to form a solid database, but if this rifle has the original stock I would like to include it in my meager database on unit markings... from what I have been able to glean from what I have collected so far, it seems most rifles assigned to a particular unit were in batched and share close maker-date and sometimes serial ranges. The Kar.98a is the best path for further gains here, they far more often than the G98's have original stocks. Mostly because of fit issues, - it isn't too easy to swap 98a actions around, they do not interchange nearly as easy as G98'a will.

    Anyway, an interesting rifle, and you did a perfect display of the key markings I track.

  12. #1181
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    The stock is not serialed to the rifle, unfortunately. The stock, magazine, buttplate and barrel bands match eachother and are serialed 2998 (I think, I will check when I get home). The "o" under the barrel serial number is a bit more legible, I will try to get some pictures of it and the stock markings this evening. Are there any other proof marks i should take a look at?

  13. #1182
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    Unfortunately no, typically the stocks are the most important things to document on a German military rifle, - all its goings and happenings are reflected on the stock, while the barrel and the receiver markings can lend clues to a rifles history, it is less than the stock. Your barrel is original to the receiver and other than the suffix confirmation, i can think of little to be gained from other pictures.

    Little things vary from maker to maker, barrel code placement, fireproofs, acceptance patterns, extra acceptance due to reworks (sometimes found on the barrel & receiver also, depending on when, where and the extent), but most of the action is on the stocks.

  14. #1183
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    KAR 98a Erfurt 1917 sn 4610n (sorry for the pic quality...)

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    Mark ~

  15. #1184
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    Thanks, the report is certainly useful!

  16. #1185
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    no problem! This one is totally matching. Just came out of a closet a few weeks ago - still has caked on dust in the crevasses!
    Mark ~

  17. #1186
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    After a couple years, http://www.gewehr98.com/ is back up, finished it yesterday, for those that knew it several years go, you will notice it is radically different with much more information about the rifles and what is important when collecting them. I will also begin a blog soon on the site, one that is very much like the one on the MRJ site, but devoted to Gewehr98 and Kar.98a subjects, or the manufacturers. The MRJ site blog will continue, but focus on a wider range of rifles.

    Check it out and if you like the subject, sign up for the blog posts. (The MRJ blog has a good number of posts regarding the G98 & K98 also)

  18. #1187
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    Site seems to be down.

    Internal Server Error
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    Please contact the server administrator, [email protected] and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
    More information about this error may be available in the server error log.
    Additionally, a 500 Internal Server Error error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
    "Don't rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again." -Bertolt Brecht

  19. #1188
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    Both links are working for me, - had several comments from others also, maybe it was down when you tried, give it a go again?

  20. #1189
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimsonSuhl View Post
    Both links are working for me, - had several comments from others also, maybe it was down when you tried, give it a go again?
    Clicking on the link in your thread I get the same error message. Same as the originaly posted link.
    "Don't rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again." -Bertolt Brecht

  21. #1190
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    Tried all three, in post and sig, they work for me, not sure why not for you, thanks for giving it another go though.

  22. #1191

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    Working fine for me, thanks for all of your hard work, it looks good.

  23. #1192
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    Worked for me also.

    Rad
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    Life Member Tri State Gun Collectors

  24. #1193
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    May be because I'm on a phone.
    "Don't rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again." -Bertolt Brecht

  25. #1194
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    Thanks TP, HM, M2.0 - maybe it is a phone thing, I know the phones and handhelds are popular, but I am on 1990's technology for the most part... so far I can't say the 21st Century has been all that great.

  26. #1195
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    I jumped on the 'puter, it works. Great site, bookmarked!
    "Don't rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world stood up and stopped the bastard, the bitch that bore him is in heat again." -Bertolt Brecht

  27. #1196

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    Hi All.
    First time here.
    Trying to understand the posting system.
    Thought I'd just jump-in here, deepest part of the pool?
    Got some questions for the intelligentsia out there.
    I am putting together a circa early WWI M-Gewehr98 German infantry rifle.
    I have everything but a large Ring 8mm receiver.
    Does anyone know where I might acquire one?
    It could be pre-WWI or even post WWI (but under, say 1924).
    The receiver has to be in in good condition-performance standards as it will be shot.
    I plan to add on my hight level sniper scope (need the mounts-- more on that later).
    Also want to add one of those reproduction magazine extenders (how many rounds of 8mm Mauser would they hold?).
    I have a barrel (with the roller-coaster rear sight mounted on it) but
    I don't understand the meaning of the numbers on it (see attachment)Click image for larger version. 

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    The two numbers are 26 over 140.
    Can anyone assist this novice on any of the above quires.
    Thank you
    Joe
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  28. #1197

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    Joseph, welcome to Gunboards. You should put your request for the receiver on the Gunboards WTB Trader. Keep looking, you'll find something.

    http://forums.gunboards.com/showthre...es-Please-Read

  29. #1198
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    I don't know how much this will help. I have a 1916 Simson. Almost all matching. The firing pin, safety, and cocking piece all have "69". Front band looks like it was overstamped, but has an "03". Rear sight has "08". The rest of the rifle is correct. No import mark. Looks like a duffle cut on the forend.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC02763.jpg   DSC02764.jpg   DSC02772.jpg   DSC02740.jpg   DSC02742.jpg   DSC02744.jpg  

    DSC02745.jpg   DSC02746.jpg   DSC02753.jpg   DSC02755.jpg   DSC02756.jpg   DSC02762.jpg  


  30. #1199
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    Does the bolt body match? How does the bolt body match? Does it have the full serial over suffix on the top flat? How is the bottom flat marked? These will tell if it is the original bolt body.

    How is the buttplate marked? It looks as though your rifle went through an ordnance depot, if so it will be marked on the buttplate. Typically when an ordnance depot or collection center repaired a rifle and replaced the bolt they did not match the small bits (components), but almost always the bolt body will be serialed to match the receiver. Often this entails lining out the old number first and re-serialing in any available spot.

    The stock is original to the rifle, a big plus in this case, - it is Saxon marked like most Simson's are. Most were delivered to Saxony. Try and do a clear straight on of the right receiver. I can make it out, but a good picture would be better.

  31. #1200
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    Default 1916 Gew

    All of the numbers match on the bolt, except those that are inline with the firing mechanism--firing pin, cocking piece, and safety. The numbers on those parts match each other. Serial number on the buttplate matches. I'll get a better photo of the side of the receiver and post it in a few minutes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC02767.jpg   DSC02768.jpg   DSC02769.jpg   DSC02770.jpg   DSC02761.jpg   DSC02747.jpg  

    DSC02748.jpg   DSC02751.jpg   DSC02752.jpg   DSC02765.jpg   DSC02766.jpg  

  32. #1201
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    Default More serial number

    More pics of the serial numbers.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DSC02743.jpg   DSC02757.jpg   DSC02758.jpg   DSC02759.jpg   DSC02778.jpg  

  33. #1202
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    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    Mosin Fanboy

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    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    Mosin Fanboy

  35. #1204
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    Very nice, the bolt body is obviously original, not depot replaced or tampered with. I assume because you didn't show any markings on the buttplate above the screw and serial, that no other markings exist further up? If not, then it didn't go through a depot. Perhaps one of the front like "tikihut" workshops (image), but nothing higher. Perhaps a deactivation method? Hard to say, but the important thing is the bolt body is original.

    Really, because the bolt body matches, and the stock/TG etc.. with only incidental parts m/m, you have a valuable rifle. Especially so since the parts m/m can be "matched" up easily, which is common these days.

    Thanks for doing excellent photographs!

    Quote Originally Posted by willyj73 View Post
    All of the numbers match on the bolt, except those that are inline with the firing mechanism--firing pin, cocking piece, and safety. The numbers on those parts match each other. Serial number on the buttplate matches. I'll get a better photo of the side of the receiver and post it in a few minutes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2HR.jpg  

  36. #1205
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    You are correct, there are no other markings on the buttplate.

    Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
    Mosin Fanboy

  37. #1206
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    1914 Waffenfabrik Mauser serial #6750i. Stamped matching numbers on: receiver, barrel, bolt body, bolt shroud, cocking piece, safety, firing pin, extractor, magazine follower, magazine floorplate, magazine/triggerguard, sear, bolt stop, upper-and-lower barrel bands, bayonet lug, handguard, front sight blade, rear sight leaf, rear sight elevator & buttons, front-and-rear action screws, buttplate, stock (below sling swivel and inside barrel channel. Cleaning rod might be matching, but only first digit remains (and only partially at that). Stock was at some point partially stripped of finish, then neglected. No unit markings.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Gew98_8-28-2016_E_1280.jpg   Gew98_8-18-2016_E.jpg   Gew98_8-18-2016_D_1280.jpg   Gew98_8-18-2016_F.jpg   Gew98_8-18-2016_receiver_acceptance_proofs_A.jpg   Gew98_8-26-2016_receiver_underside_proofs_B.jpg  

    Gew98_8-26-2016_barrel_underside_proofs.jpg   Gew98_8-18-2016_stock_proofs_A.jpg   Gew98_8-18-2016_N.jpg   Gew98_8-18-2016_M.jpg  
    Last edited by The Quiet American; 09-03-2016 at 11:56 PM.

  38. #1207
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    Thanks, I saw this rifle in the first thread you put forth (regular forum post), - a rather difficult rifle to find matching and original. All 1914 dated are desirable, very tough maker to find, though Mauser is the highest known maker that year. Spandau is very close though. This rifle is actually the highest confirmed for Mauser in 1914, prior to your discovery, both makers were only known to the g and h blocks respectively.

    It really is a shame over the stock, that was at least a $500-600 cleaning, it really kicked the value down, but it is still a nice example of a rather elusive maker-date, especially matching.

  39. #1208

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    Anyone care to chime in on this one?
    I am really at a loss for where to start, in terms of stamp identification. I cant even really tell if things are matching.

    All i know is it was a Gewher 98 1917, then it got shortened, then it got turned in to 7.62. Hopefully a long interesting history here.


    http://s287.photobucket.com/user/djbordie/library/gew98-k98-idf


    http://imgur.com/a/MRnz4



  40. #1209
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    From the looks of it you have a Israeli rebuild of a Gewehr98 receiver, it appears that only the receiver is original to its Imperial origin. I do not study Israeli small arms, so I am not sure how common this sort of build is, but the rifle (barrel) was not shortened, it looks like the Israelis simply used an Amberg/17 receiver to build a 98k. This was common enough in the interwar and early "nazi" re-armament phase also, and it is possible that the receiver was taken as part of a G98-98k build or conversion (there is a difference). In other words the rifle could have been in the 98k form when the Israelis got their hands on it. Which could have been through the Czechs, as i have read they sold the Israelis former German rifles.

    Anyway, for our purposes here, the markings on the receiver show it was retained by the Germans after 1918 and subsequently reworked-upgraded, probably in the mid-1930's or before by the application of the markings.

    I would think this rifle would appeal to collectors that focus on postwar Israeli rifles, though I do not know what standards they hold (how important matching is, or how common it is among the rifles they collect) Other than taking the rifle down and looking for clues to the barrels origins (markings) there is little more to say. It looks scrubbed, it is possible this is a former German barrel, or maybe Czech, but only way to tell is if there are markings .

  41. #1210
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    Obviously if the barrel is 7.62, it wasn't a former German barrel.

  42. #1211
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimsonSuhl View Post
    Anyway, for our purposes here, the markings on the receiver show it was retained by the Germans after 1918 and subsequently reworked-upgraded, probably in the mid-1930's or before by the application of the markings.
    For future reference, which markings show that the receiver went though a post-1918 German re-work program? Is it the numbers between the inspector's proofs on the right side of the receiver ring?

  43. #1212
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    Yes, it is the numbers and sometimes letters added to the RR, these place the rifle in a depot, probably late 1920's to mid-1930's, but before WWII.

  44. #1213
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    Thank you very much!

  45. #1214

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    Wow, thank you all.

    I am just waiting on some headspace gauges, and at that point I will be taking it apart further.

    Will post if anything else shows up! (fingers crossed for hidden german markings...)

    As for the Israeli side; apparently they often swapped in a 7.62 barrel, as opposed to chopping or cutting.
    Here is a good read on the israeli usage of the k98 https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2015/12/14/german-98k-rifle-in-israeli-service/

    Indeed the Haganah were after k98s, czech being the easiest route to obtain.

    However was there ever any Czech markings on Gew98 or K98 from there?

    I am hoping to find more identification when I take it apart, hopefully giving more info on the barrel origins.

    Thanks again for helping out!

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