To all fans of the "Gewehr98 Research" thread, I am doing my best to at least get the information here, photos may not move but at least we will have the information.
T.P.
graf
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This an attempt to “develop” a database of observed Imperial German rifles, this would include Weimar reworked rifles, rifles that served in other countries (Spain & Turkey) & even sporterized rifles- the only thing that is required is the maker markings & serial number must be “original” to the rifle.
Many times a rifle will have a altered receiver (SS service, some reworks have forced match numbers, sometimes foreign service will renumber the rifle) and these unfortunately can’t help.
We are after serial numbers most especially- as the suffix is especially important I would like to “see” the suffix if there is any doubt to what it might be. (It is very easy to misread certain letters.)
If privacy is desired you can email me graf@gewehr98.com(or TP), also if you have some reason to keep the full serial number private, the first two digits & suffix will do, images preferred (especially for new highs) but not required.
We need manufacturer/date; serial number & right receiver proofs (top/right/left receiver)- if there are any unusual markings or proofs that would also be of interest (dual manufactured/reworked rifles, & star marked receivers) . Particularly trying to find a pattern to the right receiver proofs.
Further, for the common wartime makers the higher the serial number the more likely it will be a new high number & these are of greater value for our study.
Common wartime makers are: Mauser Oberndorf; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; DWM
For all pre-war makers (Erfurt; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; Mauser Oberndorf; DWM) & for the “scarcer” wartime makers (JP Sauer; VC Schilling; Simson; CG Haenel; Oberspree Kornbusch/Oberpree- especially 1915 & 1918 dated rifles) all serial numbers are of value, because some of the makers are scarcely represented some years & a few we have only “book referenced existence”- no observed examples.
Some of the more desired manufacturer/date combinations are: all Erfurt production (1909, 1912, 1913, & 1918 have no observed rifles at all); Danzig 1913; Amberg 1911, 1912; quite a few MO are lightly represented- as are some pre-war DWM.
Thanks for any assistance-
Edited by - graf on 11/13/2005 1:39:30 PM
mman
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Gew98, 1898 Oberndorf, ser# 3174
Gew98, 1906 DWM. Ser# 2489a.
Gew98, 1915 Oberndorf, ser# 908r
Gew98, 1916/17 Spandau(Star) Ser#7763d
Gew98, JP Sauer&Son 1916 Ser# 1105t
Gew98 1917 Amberg, ser# 7509u
Gew98, 1917/1920 JP Sauer&Son,ser# 9714 c
Gew98, 1918/1920Spandau(Star)ser#5354-2
Jack
email at jcarnahan@citlink.net
A Mauser for me, a Mauser for you, all I want is a M1892. Spanish that is.
REAL Mausers are made at Oberndorf
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TP
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Working on the sticky thing.... (Maybe I should rephrase that..... )
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Jess
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Posted - 01/03/2004 : 9:44:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Here's a few:
1) DWM 1916 ser#2120x
2) Erfurt 1905 ser#4533a (crown mkd)
3) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co ser# 8354c
4) Oberndorf 1917 ser#4005n
5) Spandau 1916 ser#2701m (crown mkd)
6) Danzig 1917 ser#4754z (1920 refurb, crown mkd, star rifle)
7) Erfurt 1916 ser#426, (Star rifle, crwon mkd. Bahnschuss marked)
8) Spandau 1920 rework, ser# 1076, (crown mkd., Bahnschuss marked)
9) CG Haenel Suhl 1918 (Spanish rework, Spanish #'d)
10) DWM 1917 orig ser# 5990 (Spanish 7mm rework)
11) Spandau/DZ 1917/18, orig ser #1670 (Spanish rework into M43 config)
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Jess
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Posted - 01/03/2004 : 9:46:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Not sure how to edit my post, but forgot to mention: The Kornbusch is 1916.
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TP
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Posted - 01/03/2004 : 10:35:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote:Originally posted by Jess
Not sure how to edit my post, but forgot to mention: The Kornbusch is 1916.
Above your message there should be a bar with date and time. Beside that are several icons, including one with a piece of paper and a pencil. Click on that and it will allow you to edit the post.
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junok2002
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quote:Originally posted by graf
This an attempt to “develop” a database of observed Imperial German rifles, this would include Weimar reworked rifles, rifles that served in other countries (Spain & Turkey) & even sporterized rifles- the only thing that is required is the maker markings & serial number must be “original” to the rifle.
Many times a rifle will have a scrubbed receiver (SS service, some reworks have forced match numbers, sometimes foreign service will renumber the rifle) and these unfortunately can’t help.
We are after serial numbers- as the suffix is especially important I would like to “see” the suffix if there is any doubt to what it might be. (It is very easy to misread certain letters; e & r are a good example.)
If anonymity is desired you can email me Graff714@msn.com (or TP?), if you have some reason to keep the serial number private, the first two digits & suffix will do, images preferred (especially for new highs) but not required.
We need manufacturer, date & serial number- if there are any unusual markings or proofs that would also be of interest (dual manufactured/reworked rifles, & star marked receivers).
Further, for the common wartime makers the higher the serial number the more likely it will be a new high number & these are of greater value for our study.
Common wartime makers are: Mauser Oberndorf; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; DWM
For all pre war makers (Erfurt; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; Mauser Oberndorf; DWM) & for the “scarcer” wartime makers (JP Sauer; VC Schilling; Simson; CG Haenel; Oberspree Kornbusch/Oberpree- especially 1915 & 1918 dated rifles) all serial numbers are of value, because some of the makers are scarcely represented some years & a few we have only “book referenced existence”- no observed examples.
Some of the more desired manufacturer/date combinations are: all Erfurt production (1908, 1909, 1912, 1913, & 1918 have no observed rifles at all); Danzig 1912 & 1913; Amberg 1911-13; quite a few MO are lightly represented- as are some pre war DWM.
Thanks for any assistance- For those who contribute information I will share our results.
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junok2002
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graf
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The 3 proofs on the right receiver are proofs that represent stages of assembly & passing inspection.
Bill probably has a better break down description but without me "looking it up" that should do?
A 1916 MO is pretty common & we don't have enough information to make a valuation judgment (whether matching, metal condition or even if it is a complete rifle).
Is it a Turk used Gewehr98? Kind of looks it... provide more information or images & I will give my opinion.
quote:Originally posted by imacbo
photos of my gew 98 can anyone help with value and codes http://www.villagephotos.com/image.asp?id_=7693002&sessionkey=
http://www.villagephotos.com/image.asp?id_=7692967&sessionkey=
http://www.villagephotos.com/image.asp?id_=7693003&sessionkey=
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Betonfahrer
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Gew.98 Danzig 1902,#160k has rear sight base down to 200m.
Gew.98 Danzig 1917#7343ff with 98k rear sight marked s/42
Gew.98 Simpson&co. 1916#5533c
Gew.98 VC Shilling 1916,#6194o
Kar.98a Danzig 1918 #9371a stamped 1920
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graf
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Posted - 01/23/2004 : 06:20:52 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks!
The 1902 Danzig sounds very interesting with the 200m sight!
Jack & Bill (among others) have been seeking information on these original sights, could you do images of the rifle, especially the 200m sight?
quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer
Gew.98 Danzig 1902,#160k has rear sight base down to 200m.
Gew.98 Danzig 1917#7343ff with 98k rear sight marked s/42
Gew.98 Simpson&co. 1916#5533c
Gew.98 VC Shilling 1916,#6194o
Kar.98a Danzig 1918 #9371a stamped 1920
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Petereye05
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Paul,
Still only one Haenel - I said they were too busy making bayonets. According to the list, at this stage, they only made ONE Gew98 - probably a " Presentation Piece "
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graf
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Posted - 01/23/2004 : 4:56:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Haenel did make a pile of bayo's!
I also would expect to see more Haenel made or reworked rifles, as they are fairly consistently high on the "known" production when compared to the other Suhl makers!
quote:Originally posted by Petereye05
Paul,
Still only one Haenel - I said they were too busy making bayonets. According to the list, at this stage, they only made ONE Gew98 - probably a " Presentation Piece "
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imacbo
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it's uncut in about 70% overall shape. The numbers don't match. But over all good shape. shoots very good.
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Betonfahrer
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quote:Originally posted by graf
Thanks!
The 1902 Danzig sounds very interesting with the 200m sight!
Jack & Bill (among others) have been seeking information on these original sights, could you do images of the rifle, especially the 200m sight?
quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer
Gew.98 Danzig 1902,#160k has rear sight base down to 200m.
Gew.98 Danzig 1917#7343ff with 98k rear sight marked s/42
Gew.98 Simpson&co. 1916#5533c
Gew.98 VC Shilling 1916,#6194o
Kar.98a Danzig 1918 #9371a stamped 1920
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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Betonfahrer
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Posted - 01/24/2004 : 09:11:09 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graff, I will try to ger pics and post them. Still a greenhorn to all this- the Danzig 02 has the sight leaf for the spitzer cartrige, the base was not changed. Do you want pics even though it isnt a entire "j" rear sight assy?
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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Betonfahrer
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Posted - 01/24/2004 : 09:18:27 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
More Gew98 sn's.
Amberg 1915 3897l
CG Hanel 1916 1248c has the 98k rear sight-no 1920
Amberg 1918 8582c nazi proof on barrel 98k rear sight
Danzig 1916 6630ll has 98k rear sight
Danzig 1914 258c
Kar98a Erfurt 1916 7581r
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Betonfahrer
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Posted - 01/24/2004 : 10:45:15 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
graff, rear sight for 1902 and sn pics for Danzig 1916 10000rr
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Betonfahrer
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cant get pics to work, I did ok on the test fourm but having no luck here. I'll keep trying .
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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Betonfahrer
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Posted - 01/24/2004 : 11:11:05 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
sight pic for 1902 Danzig,sn. on 1916 Danzig 10000rr?
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While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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The Great Billdildoe
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'B-man' This is actually the norm on pre 1904 gew98's having had only their L.v. leaf & slides replaced for the S patrone.Only on thorough rebuilds or rebarrel jobs did they install the 400 meter battle sight setting sight base. Drop me an email if you have mismatch bit's on your straight imperial gew98's as I may be able to help you with parts swapping to match them up a bit.
As for the serial being 10,000 spot on.First I have ever seen or heard of it.I had always been under the assumption they reached 9,999 and went to # 1 on the next alpha prefix. Is the bolt , handguard , triggerguard , buttplate and stock serialed with the same #10000 serial number ?.
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graf
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Posted - 01/24/2004 : 1:41:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
It is also the first example I have seen with the 10,000 serial, though I have recently seen two pistols that sport such serial numbers (P08 & a P38) links below:
http://lmd-militaria.com/page46.html
http://lmd-militaria.com/page41.html
I would really like to see more of this 1916 rifle as it is very interesting… the 200m sight thing was my error, I was under the impression it was an “unaltered” rear sight (after re-reading your earlier post I see you mentioned just the base) & very few are out there!
Earlier I misunderstood you again & thought the 5 digit serial & the 200m were the same rifle!
Of course that is impossible for such an early maker with such a huge serial number extension… only on the re-read to I see it was a 1916 Danzig- I will have to slow down on my reading!
quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer
sight pic for 1902 Danzig,sn. on 1916 Danzig 10000rr?
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hoppes
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Posted - 01/26/2004 : 12:23:46 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Can contirbute one GEW 98
Oberndorf
1917
Serial number 8499g
All Imperial but not matching
Has 8mm Turkey stamped on right receiver but no other foreign marks
Bolt is Imperial but serial number ground off
Trigger asembly # 3644
Buttplate #7137
Interesting data! Keep up the good work!!
Hoppes
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Betonfahrer
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Graff and GreatBill, here are some pics of the 5 digit Danzig 1916. I have not taken the rifle out of the stock, due to the shrapel or bullet damage for fear of damaging the stock further. the triggerguard was distorted by the impact. The buttplate on the rifle has the entire sn. stamped on it. the bands and small parts have just the 00 on them. Thanks for all the response, I am glad I was able to contribute to this topic. Keith
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Betonfahrer
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Graff and Great Bill, the pics on the 200m sight Danzig 1902. I bought the rifle with no bolt or floor plate. Everything that was there matched. The bayonet lug is what I considered the early type. When do you feel that they went to the later style bayonet lug that had the dished out area ? I have seen a 1899 Danzig that was very rough, and I may be able to get info on a 1900 Danzig. Thanks again, Keith.
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The Great Billdildoe
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Posted - 01/30/2004 : 5:45:24 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
B man ; As I have dsicussed before the 1903 - 1904 changes were :
Update existing gew98's to S patrone and replace L.v. leaf and slide , firing pin safety shoulders added , gas ports in bolt body enlarged , new rear sight assembly specifically for the S patrone , and new pattern stronger bayonet lug. The early pattern bayo lug that has an open top exposing wood in barrel channel was replaced by the solid "top" type with contoured gap area.
Anything mismatch on your 1902 ??. As for the 16 Danzig - it's way way cool. Neat serial , excellent condition and maybe morbid but awesome battle damage. Bill.
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TP
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Posted - 01/30/2004 : 6:00:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Betonfahrer, I agree with Bill. Those are two exceptionally interesting examples.
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graf
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Posted - 01/30/2004 : 7:52:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Totally agree- fascinating rifles!
One thing I find especially note worthy is the fact that in the last few months I have seen two variations (single digit serial- 2 c on an 1901 Erfurt; and then again on the 1916 Danzig with the 5 digit serial...) both interesting variations and both outside of what is "normally" accepted. Further note that upon "reasonable" proof MauserBill accepted both openly & enthusiastically.
I have seen & participated in threads where MauserBill's "open mindedness" was questioned, essentially saying that he wasn't open to views other than one's he was advancing...
Not that I needed convincing, but any unbiased observer would be hard pressed to think that MauserBill is anything if not objective!
quote:Originally posted by TP
Betonfahrer, I agree with Bill. Those are two exceptionally interesting examples.
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Betonfahrer
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quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe
B man ; As I have dsicussed before the 1903 - 1904 changes were :
Update existing gew98's to S patrone and replace L.v. leaf and slide , firing pin safety shoulders added , gas ports in bolt body enlarged , new rear sight assembly specifically for the S patrone , and new pattern stronger bayonet lug. The early pattern bayo lug that has an open top exposing wood in barrel channel was replaced by the solid "top" type with contoured gap area.
Anything mismatch on your 1902 ??. As for the 16 Danzig - it's way way cool. Neat serial , excellent condition and maybe morbid but awesome battle damage. Bill.
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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Betonfahrer
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Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:28:36 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
ON the 1902 Danzig, everything matches,But I had to put a bolt and a floorplate on it to complete the rifle.Someday I would like to find a Gew98 bolt body,I just put a un-numbered czech bolt in it.I know that this is not a gew98 question but do you know where I can get a Gew88 bolt head? I am rambling sorry but to finish the 1902 the bolt and floorplate are the only non-matching parts.
thanks again for all the info,
Keith
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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The Great Billdildoe
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I have a # 60 follower and a gew98 bolt all matched to itself ending in # 60 ( # 5560 d to be precise ). I owuld trade the # 60 follower for another straight imperial follower.I am betting since your floorplate was mismatch your follower will be as well - they usually are in such cases. Same goes for the bolt in swap if you have a matched to itself imperial gew98 bolt.
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graf
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Posted - 01/31/2004 : 12:48:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I have a significant number of Imperial bolt bodies, and several floorplates- but none ending with #60...
If you can't work out a trade with Bill drop me an email: graff714@msn.com
quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer
ON the 1902 Danzig, everything matches,But I had to put a bolt and a floorplate on it to complete the rifle.Someday I would like to find a Gew98 bolt body,I just put a un-numbered czech bolt in it.I know that this is not a gew98 question but do you know where I can get a Gew88 bolt head? I am rambling sorry but to finish the 1902 the bolt and floorplate are the only non-matching parts.
thanks again for all the info,
Keith
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p3skyking
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It took awhile, but here they are;
Schilling-------1916 ---- 2778e
Spandau---------1909 ---- 6152a
Kornbusch-------1916 ---- 9727c
DWM-------------1916---- 3090r
Mauser----------1916---- 515dd
Danzig----------1902---- 1007h
Amberg----------1917---- 7817r
Simson----------1917---- 2602d (EWB marked stock)
Karab 98b
BLANK--------------------7274e
KAR 98A (98AZ)
Erfurt----------1915---- 1756k
Edited by - p3skyking on 01/31/2004 7:22:07 PM
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graf
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Posted - 01/31/2004 : 11:25:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks Mike, I remember a couple of these...
The 1909 Spandau was a new high when I first saw it last year, but although I did get a somewhat decent image of the rifle when it was sold on GB, it was not clear enough to make it a confirmed serial.
Were you the winner of it? Can you confirm the serial, as for now I have it marked as the “probably high” for 1909 Spandau?
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
It took awhile, but here they are;
Schilling-------1916 ---- 2778e
Spandau---------1909 ---- 6152a
Kornbusch-------1916 ---- 9727c
DWM-------------1916---- 3090r
Mauser----------1916---- 515dd
Danzig----------1902---- 1007h
Amberg----------1917---- 7817r
Simson----------1917---- 2602d (EWB marked stock)
Karab 98b
BLANK--------------------7274e
KAR 98A (98AZ)
Erfurt----------1915---- 1756k
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p3skyking
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Confirmed on that Spandau 1909 number. I was the high bid on that auction. I want to thank you for compiling these numbers. This is a much needed bank of information. Looking forward to the eventual results!
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lite-box
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DWM 1917 3341u
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graf
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Posted - 02/08/2004 : 01:52:34 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Chuck, that is a high serial for DWM in 1917 (current high is 3208 r) I would like to see images of this one if you don't mind?
You seem to be the DWM man, as your 1902 DWM was also a high (actually it was the first observed example!)
quote:Originally posted by lite-box
DWM 1917 3341u
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Rustybore
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I'll add a few to the list:
1907 DWM 4398
1913 Danzig k98a 2410a
1915 Mauser 1190t(could be r) (reconfig to 98k to Norway 7.62 kal)
1917 Mauser 5337
Kevin in Or.
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lite-box
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Posted - 02/08/2004 : 10:47:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Download Attachment:
223.24 KB1917 DWM pics; rifle came with a 98a bolt, broken lower band and minus handguars ans has a spliced duffel cut. looks like a U to me...
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Graf have been able to decipher anymore info on the 1902 after handling it ?
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Edited by - lite-box on 02/08/2004 11:07:40 PM
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graf
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Posted - 02/09/2004 : 5:57:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Very nice pics!
It is definitely a new high for DWM in 1917… although I am of the opinion that is more likely a “v” rather than a “u”, I would very much like to get others opinion regarding this.
I will attach images of several rifles with both suffix styles- this is the reason why images of serial numbers is so important as there is variation to the letters & it is often difficult to discern certain letters!
The 1902 DWM is very cool & I sure do look forward to “restoring” it!
It had more original parts on it than I expected & it has significant potential imo.
I did not notice anything different than when you initially imaged it (your imaging is very clear & thorough!).
It is a largely original naval contract Gewehr98 that has been reworked during the 30’s with a new barrel put on it.
I suspect the barrel is older than the tangent sight base (S/42G for 1935) as the proofs on the barrel look earlier to me.
I think this rifle has been reworked or rebuilt several times (notice the “matching” stock was a post 1916 stock & then the barrel/blued receiver for a total of 2 reworks minimum).
Two DWM rifles & both highs for the list (the 1902 was not only a high but the first “observed” for DWM in 1902… though it was known they existed)
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 02/09/2004 : 6:13:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Here are several examples of u & v suffix styles.
1917 Amberg; 1917 MO; 1915 Spandau; the last two the best example as it shows two 1917 Erfurt 98a rifles...
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lite-box
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
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616 Posts
Posted - 02/10/2004 : 05:46:16 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graf, Is it common for Erfurt 98a's like the one in yor pics to have two serial # suffix's ? My 1917 Erfurt 98a is 4147nn. I havn't seen to many 98a's, they like the GEW's are very uncommon out west...unsporterized that is !
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graf
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Posted - 02/10/2004 : 12:11:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
It was quite common on wartime production... 1915; 1916; 1917 & 1918 Erfurt production. Only Erfurt reached the double suffix with 98a production (imo).
1917 far & away was top production for the 98a (Erfurt produced alone the 98a in 1917).
I cropped the rifles serial some as the rifle (unfortunately) is not mine- it is the current high by far for 1917 Erfurt!
Your nn suffix is very near the end of 1917 as double v is the current high. Erfurt must of been pouring out production by 1917 to reach the double v range!
quote:Originally posted by lite-box
Graf, Is it common for Erfurt 98a's like the one in yor pics to have two serial # suffix's ? My 1917 Erfurt 98a is 4147nn. I havn't seen to many 98a's, they like the GEW's are very uncommon out west...unsporterized that is !
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rmeron
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
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645 Posts
Posted - 02/16/2004 : 5:26:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
My only Mauser is a Mod 98 PREDUZECE 44,don't know much else about it
RMERON
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The Great Billdildoe
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1910 Posts
Posted - 02/21/2004 : 9:19:02 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Saw a neat 1899 erfurt a buddy got at the SOS show. It is a bit rough on the outside and a tad mismatched , but it's quite the naval gewehr98 for sure.
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TP
Moderator Military Mauser Forum
USA
2034 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 01:27:36 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Is it just me or do the JP Sauer & Sohn made rifles seem very hard to find? I've only seen one and am trying to work out a deal on it.
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Petereye05
Gunboards Member
United Kingdom
87 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 12:52:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
TP,
Yes - they are as rare as Haenel made Gew98's
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 5:22:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I think most of the Suhl makers are a little tougher than the meat & potatoes makers (the arsenals, DWM & MO)... I own 2 JP Sauer’s (1 1916 project rifle & a 1917 quality matching rifle) and I like them very much!
I never cared for JP Sauer production of the 98k, though I have owned several examples of them over the years also... they were the first of my 98k rifles I sold or traded off.
In my personal database I have examples of (5) 1916 dated JP Sauer’s & (4) 1917 dated JP Sauer’s- no examples from 1915 or 1918 which as we have discussed earlier are rare- or should I say scarce???
I think 1916 or 1917 JP Sauer production a little tougher to locate but not rare or scarce- imo Haenel & Schilling are tougher to find! (at least from my experience)
Oh, pure production/serial extensions from the database (Suhl makers only... this can be a little misleading as WOK is not listed and it was always competing with Simson for the low spot!).
Lowest to highest production- Suhl only:
1915- Simson; Sauer; Haenel Schilling
1916- Simson; Haenel; Schilling; Sauer
1917- Simson; Haenel; Sauer; Schilling
1918- Simson; Sauer; Haenel; Schilling
Anyway you look at it, any of the Suhl makers are "rarer" than the arsenals, MO & DWM who sometimes put out double any of the Suhl makers!
quote:Originally posted by TP
Is it just me or do the JP Sauer & Sohn made rifles seem very hard to find? I've only seen one and am trying to work out a deal on it.
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Edited by - graf on 03/02/2004 5:45:38 PM
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The Great Billdildoe
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I have to add I have had a fair amount of luck finding JP sauer gew98's , the majority of them 1916 .I don't thnik them rare or scarc for 16 or 17 dates. As all noted any nice matching 18 dated gew98 is a scarce bird. I have had only one matching 1918 dated gew98 - a VC Schilling.But it was so horribly shattered at the wrist and repaired nicely - but still looked horrible I let a buddy in VA have it... it was just too hard on the eyes !!.
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fergus
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Pitcairn Island
489 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 5:40:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graf.....did you catch the 1916 C.G. Haenel that went at auction a few weeks back?
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graf
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1294 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 6:01:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I saw all $770 of it go out!
Dan did well on that one & I was a little surprised on how well it did- even with a sling he did full retail on it- (imo).
This is a lesson (one well learned by me selling off numerous rifles myself v. AA ) for those bonehead sellers who refuse to show details... clear, quality pictures & honest, knowledgeable description will bring solid prices on the gun auction sites!
When I sell a rifle I post a couple dozen pics & show every detail (plus a detailed/knowledgeable text) and have made top dollar more times than not!
For the curious: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=5489898
quote:Originally posted by fergus
Graf.....did you catch the 1916 C.G. Haenel that went at auction a few weeks back?
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petersen43
Gunboards Premium Member
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238 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 6:47:39 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi,
Just bought a Gew.98 this afternoon. It is a JP Sauer/1916. Rifle is totally matching down to the cleaning rod, serial number is 1903n. Rifle has a unit disc instead of a bolt takedown disc, however, there is no unit info stamped onto the disc. Rifle has never been modified, and is not import marked. Hope this helps!-George
"What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
-Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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graf
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1294 Posts
Posted - 03/05/2004 : 10:19:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks for the addition... in 1916 Sauer went to the t range; still you did well to find one totally matching!
It is a rare thing to find 1916 dated Imperial rifles with unit markings- I have seen only a couple, one of which was marked to a MG unit! (this was a 98a)
In 1916 they started the process of elimination of the disk & use of the take down/finger grips...
quote:Originally posted by petersen43
Hi,
Just bought a Gew.98 this afternoon. It is a JP Sauer/1916. Rifle is totally matching down to the cleaning rod, serial number is 1903n. Rifle has a unit disc instead of a bolt takedown disc, however, there is no unit info stamped onto the disc. Rifle has never been modified, and is not import marked. Hope this helps!-George
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petersen43
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
238 Posts
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 11:35:48 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi Graf,
Thanks for the info. I have been collecting k98s for several years, and this is my first gew98. I paid $350 out the door for it, and feel I got a great deal on it. I was told the rifle had been brought in by an oil burner mechanic earlier in the day, who'd gotten it from an older customer of his when he'd seen it while working in the mans basement. The problem with buying the gun from a shop is that they'll never give you the contact info on the guy who brought a gun in to allow you to research it's history, or even agree to forward your info to the guy in most cases. When I got the rifle home, I tried looking into it in my copy of "The German Rifle", but they don't even mention JP Sauer being a Gew98 manufacturer (as of 1979 anyway). They also state that by 1916, all rifles had a takedown disc and finger grooves in the forend, though mine had neither, which is when I went onto gunboards to see what I could find out about it. Anyone know if the Sarco repro slings for the gew98 are worth buying? Thanks again for the info-George
"What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
-Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 7:49:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I doubt many would argue that you didn’t get a great deal!
$350 is a fine price for what you describe…
Yes, in the article I did for the MRJ a year or two back I wrote of the strange fact that John Walter neglected to mention JP Sauer in his book!
Even more unusual (and much less justifiably) he left it out again in his more recent “Central Powers Small Arms of World War One” printed in 1999!
Although John Walters’s books have minor errors, they are the best books in print on the subject (imo)- so far!
I generally don’t buy from the big dealers… if I were in to buying one I would try TP or occasionally eBay has one (not sure of the source of these- they may even be from Sarco?) but I have had so many bad experiences with most of the large surplus dealers (years ago granted) that I disregard them altogether these days.
quote:Originally posted by petersen43
Hi Graf,
Thanks for the info. I have been collecting k98s for several years, and this is my first gew98. I paid $350 out the door for it, and feel I got a great deal on it. I was told the rifle had been brought in by an oil burner mechanic earlier in the day, who'd gotten it from an older customer of his when he'd seen it while working in the mans basement. The problem with buying the gun from a shop is that they'll never give you the contact info on the guy who brought a gun in to allow you to research it's history, or even agree to forward your info to the guy in most cases. When I got the rifle home, I tried looking into it in my copy of "The German Rifle", but they don't even mention JP Sauer being a Gew98 manufacturer (as of 1979 anyway). They also state that by 1916, all rifles had a takedown disc and finger grooves in the forend, though mine had neither, which is when I went onto gunboards to see what I could find out about it. Anyone know if the Sarco repro slings for the gew98 are worth buying? Thanks again for the info-George
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Vulch
Moderator English Gun Pub
Australia
6297 Posts
Posted - 03/14/2004 : 05:32:47 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Sorry to take so long chiming in.
Only got one Gew98 now - sold the 1917 Haenel. My remaining Gew98 is a V. CHR Schilling, 1917, serial 1780 b (ENTIRELY matching)
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feldmutze
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
188 Posts
Posted - 03/14/2004 : 5:45:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Vulch, for having only one gew98 left (and only showing us the one photo), that sure looks to be nice!
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Betonfahrer
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
463 Posts
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 11:53:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Found the other Gew&Kar 98s
Kar 98 Danzig 1918 9371a
Kar 98 Danzig 1912 8477
Gew 98 Danzig 1914 4070a
Gew 98 Danzig 1916 5414j
Keith
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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r_t_darc
Gunboards Member
USA
49 Posts
Posted - 03/21/2004 : 2:22:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Have a few more to add to your list:
Kar 98 - Erfurt 1916, # 9860cc
Kar 98 - Erfurt 1917, # 1963mm
slightly off topic - Kar98b #7386d
(this is a blank receiver/square S)
Gew 98 - Danzig 1917, # 3128t
Gew 98 - D.W.M. 1918, # 7118c
Gew 98 - O/dorf 1917, # 4659n
Gew 98 - Spandau1904, # 7095c
Gew 98 - Spandau1916, # 7096
(Kinda cute quirk of serial no's
on these two Spandau's... )
Following two guns are salvaged Gew
receivers rebuilt into K98k config:
1916 DWM - #6188e
1916 DWM - #2210bb
Hope I've helped out just a little-
Rich M.
r.t. Darc
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 5:24:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Rich, you sure did!
As surprising as it may seem some of your very high serial numbers are not high's- several are very close!
However, one is a new high, 1904 Spandau ser. 7095 c (the old high was 3948 b so it is a good jump!) Can you do images?
In 20+ years of collecting, I haven’t seen many Gewehr98/98k conversions (legit ones anyway) awesome that you have two! (Of course any 98b is cool), - you have an impressive collection!
quote:Originally posted by r_t_darc
Have a few more to add to your list:
Kar 98 - Erfurt 1916, # 9860cc
Kar 98 - Erfurt 1917, # 1963mm
slightly off topic - Kar98b #7386d
(this is a blank receiver/square S)
Gew 98 - Danzig 1917, # 3128t
Gew 98 - D.W.M. 1918, # 7118c
Gew 98 - O/dorf 1917, # 4659n
Gew 98 - Spandau1904, # 7095c
Gew 98 - Spandau1916, # 7096
(Kinda cute quirk of serial no's
on these two Spandau's... )
Following two guns are salvaged Gew
receivers rebuilt into K98k config:
1916 DWM - #6188e
1916 DWM - #2210bb
Hope I've helped out just a little-
Rich M.
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 5:31:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks Lewis & Keith, that is a sad thing parting with the Haenel!
Though the Schilling is nicer (at least from the pics you have shared with us in the past) I would of had a hard time parting with it...
quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer
Found the other Gew&Kar 98s
Kar 98 Danzig 1918 9371a
Kar 98 Danzig 1912 8477
Gew 98 Danzig 1914 4070a
Gew 98 Danzig 1916 5414j
Keith
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The Great Billdildoe
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1910 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 9:37:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe
I have to add I have had a fair amount of luck finding JP sauer gew98's , the majority of them 1916 .I don't thnik them rare or scarc for 16 or 17 dates. As all noted any nice matching 18 dated gew98 is a scarce bird. I have had only one matching 1918 dated gew98 - a VC Schilling.But it was so horribly shattered at the wrist and repaired nicely - but still looked horrible I let a buddy in VA have it... it was just too hard on the eyes !!.
..............
............... Well don't you know when speaking of the devile... I got that schilling back in trade today. So it's home to stay.And in retrospect the damage that was repaired was nowhere near as horrible as I had lead myself to believe.
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graf
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1294 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 10:04:30 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Geez, that's nice!
Let's see the damage... I can't imagine me passing on this rifle even if the buttstock was gone!
This is the first straight up "Imperial" 1918 Schilling I have seen- cool rifle!
I have my fingers crossed that you'll find something you can’t afford so you can sell this one to me!!
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r_t_darc
Gunboards Member
USA
49 Posts
Posted - 03/26/2004 : 12:13:51 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I've gotten together some photos of my Spandau 1904
that might possibly be the highest number reported so far.
Their quality isn't so good, as all were taken with my
very inexpensive PC web-cam. To make up for this lack
of quality, I added in some more in the way of quantity!
The rifle is an early WW2 rework with Su-4 & Su-28
markings. The rebuild date can be pinned down pretty
well, as the rear sight base bears a 1941 stamp, while
the rear band is dated 1940; I'd guess Jan or Feb '41.
While not in the original WW1 configuration, it is still
in very nice condition, with a matching straight bolt.
The part numbers are not lined out or over-stamped,
as on many rebuilt rifles. I hope I haven't let down
all the purists out there too badly, but I do have a
soft spot for these WW1 veterans that got drafted
for another round of service by the Third Reich .
r.t. Darc
Edited by - r_t_darc on 03/27/2004 01:15:20 AM
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r_t_darc
Gunboards Member
USA
49 Posts
Posted - 03/26/2004 : 12:40:26 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Images are of 1&2:Receiver, 3:Barrel left, 4:Bolt handle, 5:Buttstock stamp, 6:Barrel right, 7:Rear band markings, 8:Rear sight base.
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By the way, does anyone have a good idea which organization used
the "Su #" stampings found on various rebuilt WW1 weapons ? (I
also have an Su4/1938 marked butcher blade bayonet for the rifle)
Thanks for the chance to add to the discussion and information !
r.t. Darc
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The Great Billdildoe
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1910 Posts
Posted - 03/26/2004 : 05:42:26 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
RT ; the Su proof if I remember correctly from my friend Dietrich is Simson Uberrect ( spelling may be off ). Anyhow with the MP8 cartouche your rifle, or at least the stock was sent to spain as that is a spanish rework proof.
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r_t_darc
Gunboards Member
USA
49 Posts
Posted - 03/27/2004 : 01:31:57 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
That just adds another wrinkle to the gun's history!
During what time period would the MP 8 marking have
been used in Spain? The serial number on the stock
is rather worn,but it does appear to match the rest.
The stock metal is all German proofed, but the 'MP'
is the only remaining stamp on the butt of the gun.
r.t. Darc
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The Great Billdildoe
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1910 Posts
Posted - 03/27/2004 : 08:55:09 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
The MP 8 cartouche as I recall was a post WW2 era ( post span civ war more likely ) rebuild mark the spainish applied to ANY rifle they refurbished - whether issued or placed in storage. To include weapons captured from the communists.I have seen this cartouche on Winchester 95's , Mosins , Wz29's ,Vz24 & 23's , Gew98's.
Edited by - The Great Billdildoe on 03/27/2004 08:56:52 AM
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r_t_darc
Gunboards Member
USA
49 Posts
Posted - 03/28/2004 : 8:58:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe
The MP 8 cartouche as I recall was a post WW2 era ( post span civ war more likely ) rebuild mark the spainish applied to ANY rifle they refurbished - whether issued or placed in storage. To include weapons captured from the communists.I have seen this cartouche on Winchester 95's , Mosins , Wz29's ,Vz24 & 23's , Gew98's.
Wow - That's quite a range of captured weaponry!
Maybe that's where the Russians got the idea to ware-
house every item ever captured by them during WW2
Looks like my Gewehr took an unexpected detour, maybe
during the Spanish Civil War? Thanks for the info!
r.t. Darc
Edited by - r_t_darc on 03/28/2004 9:01:15 PM
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gillou
Gunboards Member
France
13 Posts
Posted - 04/15/2004 : 4:45:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
1902 Spandau 3392 a
1915 Dantzig 6410 n
Best regards
Gilles
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 04/15/2004 : 5:39:12 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
On 1902 Spandau we have 2576 c as a high; in 1915 for Danzig we have 1563 w for a high.
Thanks for the help!
Those early Gewehr98’s are quite scarce if still in Imperial trim & matching…
quote:Originally posted by gillou
1902 Spandau 3392 a
1915 Dantzig 6410 n
Best regards
Gilles
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Puska24
Gunboards Member
39 Posts
Posted - 04/16/2004 : 3:04:05 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
1916 Mixmaster Mauser Oberndorf 2934 k ( I think it's a k ), with a # 3019 stamped on the rear of the receiver...Pics were taken with my phone, so they are not so good... I just added a pic of it with my 1917 Enfield and 1915 Mosin M-91... It's taken with the camera phone again, aww...
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beeker77
Gunboards Member
USA
37 Posts
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 7:13:14 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit beeker77's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Gew98, 1916 Spandau, s/n 3483 l (that's an 'el' suffix), barrel bands 35 (lower) and 76 (top)
Gew98, 1918 Oberndorf, s/n 488 l (that's an 'el' suffix), turkish crescent top center of receiver, 5-point star 1/4-inch left of Gew.98 stamp.
"Few experiences in life are so exhilirating as to have been shot at without result." - Winston Churchill
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WaPrüf2
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
935 Posts
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 09:13:53 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
GEW 98s, KAR 98As AND KAR 98AZs IN THe SPRINGFIELD ARMORY COLLECTION
This information previously published by me in KCN. For details of any weapon consult directly with Springfield.
GEW 98
Amberg 1916 SN 3709
Danzig 1900 SN 4157 (converted to Zielgewehr)
DWM 1901 SN 60a (Navy)
Mauser 1906 SN 8540c
Mauser 1913 SN 4230 (w breech cover)
J.P. Sauer 1916 SN 8427c
Spandau 1901 SN 651 (w original rear sight; converted to Zielgewehr)
Spandau 1906 SN SN 2215d
Spandau 1915 SN 7070t
Spandau 1915 SN 9574a (Reichswehr rework)
Sniper, maker obscured by sight moun, SN 6198g
Bavarian sniper, maker obscured by sight mount, SN ?
KAR 98A
Erfurt 1904 SN 6311
KAR 98AZ
Danzig 1909 SN 7215
Danzig 1910 SN 1213
Erfurt 1915 SN 5703a
Erfurt 1916 SN 8811a
Erfurt 1916 SN 7718gg
Erfurt 1916 SN 5762mm
Erfurt 1917 SN 5854
-30-
Edited by - WaPrüf2 on 04/22/2004 1:48:01 PM
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graf
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1294 Posts
Posted - 04/23/2004 : 10:04:39 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Great stuff CB, and I find it especially valuable as I actually did the "hour tour" last November (I asked so many questions & walked like a 90 year old so as to spend more time! Drew it out to an hour & half...).
I tried to see what I could but they wouldn't let hands on examination & the displays were done so serial detail was obscured... didn't get much data while there, but it is surely the best National Park I have ever been to!
Thank you for the details!
quote:Originally posted by WaPrüf2
GEW 98s, KAR 98As AND KAR 98AZs IN THe SPRINGFIELD ARMORY COLLECTION
This information previously published by me in KCN. For details of any weapon consult directly with Springfield.
GEW 98
Amberg 1916 SN 3709
Danzig 1900 SN 4157 (converted to Zielgewehr)
DWM 1901 SN 60a (Navy)
Mauser 1906 SN 8540c
Mauser 1913 SN 4230 (w breech cover)
J.P. Sauer 1916 SN 8427c
Spandau 1901 SN 651 (w original rear sight; converted to Zielgewehr)
Spandau 1906 SN SN 2215d
Spandau 1915 SN 7070t
Spandau 1915 SN 9574a (Reichswehr rework)
Sniper, maker obscured by sight moun, SN 6198g
Bavarian sniper, maker obscured by sight mount, SN ?
KAR 98A
Erfurt 1904 SN 6311
KAR 98AZ
Danzig 1909 SN 7215
Danzig 1910 SN 1213
Erfurt 1915 SN 5703a
Erfurt 1916 SN 8811a
Erfurt 1916 SN 7718gg
Erfurt 1916 SN 5762mm
Erfurt 1917 SN 5854
-30-
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maximvikers
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205 Posts
Posted - 04/25/2004 : 6:11:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Spandau 1907 #4247b
Mauser Oberndorf 1918 #3940L
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Maverick35N
Starting Member
USA
3 Posts
Posted - 04/28/2004 : 8:04:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Here is my small contribution.
G71, Amberg, 1880, 80442
G71/84, Spandau, 1887, 2564
G98, Oberndorf, 1915, 3946m
G98, Oberndorf, 1916, 8372h
Kar98AZ, Amberg, 1911, 8098
Kar98AZ Pix
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WaPrüf2
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
935 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 09:15:52 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
More goodies. Most were reported to the KCN at one point.
GEW 98
Amberg 1916 SN 592n
Amberg 1916 SN 386t
Amberg 1917 SN 5881a
Danzig 1917 SN 7760dd (aka G98b)
Danzig 1917 SN 451cc (sniper)
Danzig 1917 SN 2689hh (aka G98a)
DWM 1899 SN 5706 (Navy)
DWM 1913 SN 2225 (Navy)
DWM 1915 SN 4850w
DWM 1916 SN 4386L
DWM 1917 SN 9754
DWM 1917/1920 SN 3325h
Erfurt 1916 SN 2518/1 (Sterngeweher)
Mauser 1916 SN 5902s
Schllling 1916 SN 6883r
Simson 1917 SN 808a
Spandau 1899 SN 2191
Spandau 1900 SN 4977c
Spandau 1900 SN 7478k (Colonial; reliably reported)
Spandau 1901 SN 7083 (Colonial)
Spandau 1903 SN 1210 (Colonial)
Spandau 1904 SN 1156
Spandau 1915 SN 7698e
Spandau 1916 SN 1690ee
Spandau 1917 SN 2479/2 (Sterngewehr; 2-piece stock)
Spandau/DZ (Sic) 1917/18 (sic) SN 1370c (aka G98b)
Spandau 1917 (H over crown) SN 28740c (barrel dtd 1920) (aka G98a)
GEW 98 RADFAHRER
Spandau 1914 SN 1293
KAR 98A
Erfurt 1904 SN 3794
KAR 98AZ
Danzig 1911 SN 8654
Danzig 1918 SN 7948c
Danzig 1918/1920 (running horse on receiver) SN 1739d
Erfurt 1909 SN 2284
Erfurt 1916 SN 5287L
Erfurt 1916/1920 SN 9394kk (P.w.B.; D.R.G.)
Erfurt 1917 SN 2257k
Erfurt 1918 SN 4076b (2-piece stock)
Erfurt 1918/1920 SN 7003b
Erfurt 1918 SN 9825n (EWB)
Spandau 1908 SN 739a
G98a = Weimar rework w narrow lower band
G98b = Weimar rework w wide lower band
(These old-time collector designations; not official).
Edited by - WaPrüf2 on 04/30/2004 3:32:31 PM
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FixBayonets
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
695 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 2:24:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
GEW98 Mauser 1901 Erfurt 8164 c
GEW98 Mauser 1916 DWM 232
GEW98 Mauser 1914 Spandau 8313 f
GEW98 Mauser 1917 Mauser Oberndorf 6230 s
GEW98 Mauser 1918 Mauser Oberndorf 7373 t
KAR98 Mauser 1918 Erfurt 3292 u
KAR98a Mauser 1918 Erfurt 950 k
KAR98a Mauser 1917 Erfurt 9324
"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges."
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 7:32:12 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Cool Amberg!
I have tried to acquire one a couple of times... but so far have only been able to get a barrel off one- kind of disappointing story behind that as well.
At least it is a start!
Post some more pics of the Amberg (if you don't mind?) I have seen only 5-6 and most had significant problems.
Oh, yours is close to the "known" high- 8472
quote:Originally posted by Maverick35N
Here is my small contribution.
G71, Amberg, 1880, 80442
G71/84, Spandau, 1887, 2564
G98, Oberndorf, 1915, 3946m
G98, Oberndorf, 1916, 8372h
Kar98AZ, Amberg, 1911, 8098
Kar98AZ Pix
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http://gewehr98.com/
Edited by - graf on 04/30/2004 7:39:32 PM
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 7:38:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
CB, thanks again! Can't wait to compare it to what we have... much of what we have is from the KCN (as the base of the database came from Wieringa's work on the KCN).
I have scoured the issues I have, but as I only have 4 years of them, that leaves a significant gap!
quote:Originally posted by WaPrüf2
More goodies. Most were reported to the KCN at one point.
GEW 98
Amberg 1916 SN 592n
Amberg 1916 SN 386t
Amberg 1917 SN 5881a
Danzig 1917 SN 7760dd (aka G98b)
Danzig 1917 SN 451cc (sniper)
Danzig 1917 SN 2689hh (aka G98a)
DWM 1899 SN 5706 (Navy)
DWM 1913 SN 2225 (Navy)
DWM 1915 SN 4850w
DWM 1916 SN 4386L
DWM 1917 SN 9754
DWM 1917/1920 SN 3325h
Erfurt 1916 SN 2518/1 (Sterngeweher)
Mauser 1916 SN 5902s
Schllling 1916 SN 6883r
Simson 1917 SN 808a
Spandau 1899 SN 2191
Spandau 1900 SN 4977c
Spandau 1900 SN 7478k (Colonial; reliably reported)
Spandau 1901 SN 7083 (Colonial)
Spandau 1903 SN 1210 (Colonial)
Spandau 1904 SN 1156
Spandau 1915 SN 7698e
Spandau 1916 SN 1690ee
Spandau 1917 SN 2479/2 (Sterngewehr; 2-piece stock)
Spandau/DZ (Sic) 1917/18 (sic) SN 1370c (aka G98b)
Spandau 1917 (H over crown) SN 28740c (barrel dtd 1920) (aka G98a)
GEW 98 RADFAHRER
Spandau 1914 SN 1293
KAR 98A
Erfurt 1904 SN 3794
KAR 98AZ
Danzig 1911 SN 8654
Danzig 1918 SN 7948c
Danzig 1918/1920 (running horse on receiver) SN 1739d
Erfurt 1909 SN 2284
Erfurt 1916 SN 5287L
Erfurt 1916/1920 SN 9394kk (P.w.B.; D.R.G.)
Erfurt 1917 SN 2257k
Erfurt 1918 SN 4076b (2-piece stock)
Erfurt 1918/1920 SN 7003b
Erfurt 1918 SN 9825n (EWB)
Spandau 1908 SN 739a
G98a = Weimar rework w narrow lower band
G98b = Weimar rework w wide lower band
(These old-time collector designations; not official).
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http://gewehr98.com/
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 8:04:52 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
FB, quite a good post- two new high serials!
1901 Erfurt moved from 6568 c, a decent hop for an early Gewehr98!
1918 MO moved from 1831 p to your t block!
If you can do pics of the serials that would be great- I record all new highs as "reported" but confirmed is always better...
I am unsure how Mark Wieringa formed the base of this database, but as this was done before the forums became so user friendly he probably took the reported same as confirmed?
I have used asterisks to differentiate the reported from the confirmed.
Thanks again, two new highs are encouraging!
quote:Originally posted by FixBayonets
GEW98 Mauser 1901 Erfurt 8164 c
GEW98 Mauser 1916 DWM 232
GEW98 Mauser 1914 Spandau 8313 f
GEW98 Mauser 1917 Mauser Oberndorf 6230 s
GEW98 Mauser 1918 Mauser Oberndorf 7373 t
KAR98 Mauser 1918 Erfurt 3292 u
KAR98a Mauser 1918 Erfurt 950 k
KAR98a Mauser 1917 Erfurt 9324
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rocklock
Gunboards Member
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48 Posts
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 8:43:58 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit rocklock's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
GEW 98 Oberndorf 1917 7707
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petersen43
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
238 Posts
Posted - 05/19/2004 : 7:53:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Amberg 1916
s/n 8569 n
"What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
-Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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TOVARISCH
Gunboards Member
53 Posts
Posted - 05/20/2004 : 1:43:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
My only Mauser. Just donated to me by my Father.
DWM 1916 GEW 98 serial# 5565
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petersen43
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
238 Posts
Posted - 05/20/2004 : 10:07:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Mauser Oberndorf 1917
s/n 8253n
"What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
-Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 9:36:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks for the serials, these wartime production rifles have huge numbers (high suffixes- often double suffixes) so rarely do we get a new high with them- but it is good to see the posts anyway!
Keep them coming!
quote:Originally posted by petersen43
Mauser Oberndorf 1917
s/n 8253n
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Petereye05
Gunboards Member
United Kingdom
87 Posts
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 1:05:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Paul,
I also have a Gew 71 by Amberg and a Gew 71/84 by Spandau - here are the details :
Gew 71 Amberg 1877 s/n 5990 unit mark B.1.R.5.102.
Gew 71/84 Spandau 1887 s/n 2626 unit mark G.F.R.
R.78.
Regards,
Peter.
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cartophilis2
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
130 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2004 : 7:24:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hey i got one Saturday:
Danzig 1916
all matching but bolt-- 8724 over RR
excellent shape-- had to fix broke firing pin
i dont think im gonna keep it though-- i dont collect mausers
CARTO
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keithreid
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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2410 Posts
Posted - 06/08/2004 : 3:26:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
have 2 for you:
gew98 1915 spandau, K6300 M radom rework
gew98 1918 mauser oberndorf, 8513 t turk marked.
have another that was sporterized back in the 60's, but it's in seattle at the moment and i'm not. i'll post info on it as soon as i can.
COA#104114
looking for the following finn m91's:
tikka with s/n below 130(25 tikka)
44vkt(referenced in lapin's book)
finned chattelerault m91
Keith A. Reid
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 06/08/2004 : 6:46:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Carto;
Cool right receiver proofs (also good clear pics which is always welcome!) The "crowned RC" is a well known proof representing a previously failed inspection being accepted for service, the script M is interesting & I have seen this before but am unaware of its meaning (if it has one at all? MauserBill perhaps??)
8724 rr would be a new high serial number & I would very much like to view it if you would share it- I always record them as reported but for a confirmed high I like to see the serial (especially for e & r as it is an easy script to confuse on some of the makers! Though Danzig uses an easy to recognize "r" -some don't)
Keith;
Love to see the "t" range Turked MO, as that also would be a high serial (we have a reported 7373 t Turked MO for 1918 but it isn't confirmed by observation... regardless it would be a high for 1918 MO!)
A word on observations v reported. I always welcome serial numbers (reported or observed) & if a high I record them on the database (but with asterisks) - I really like to confirm a serial number if an image is available!
My email is graff714@bellsouth.net if privacy is an issue for you.
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eulitathomas
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
110 Posts
Posted - 06/09/2004 : 7:13:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hello Graf - Here's my contribution -
1 - Kar 98 Erfurt 1918 # 9962 "B" marked stock
2 - Gew 98 Spandau 1911 # 1496d unit disc = E.M.G.A. 12.45
3 - Gew 98 Amburg 1906 # 9901 unit disc = B. 22 R. 8. 40.
4 - Gew 98 Emil Kerner & Sohn Suhl 8.15 X 46R # 2 under receiver and
beneath barrel.
All guns are matching numbers.
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Mike Augustine
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
158 Posts
Posted - 06/27/2004 : 6:45:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I bought a Gew98 DWM over the weekend.
I have some pics to share, if anyone could give me some information or history on this rifle I'd appreciate it very much. I'm especially curious about the right side stamps I assume the letter under the serial is a W? The serial number is 1011.
Thanks in advance for any help learning some more about this rifle.
Matching numbers, with the cleaning rod, no bayonet or sling though.
The Lange sight:
Top stamp:
Right side receiver:
Left side same:
Kind of a crappy picture of the bolt serial stamps:
Looking down the barrel:
I know that doesn't show a heck of a lot, but I thought it might be a nice twist on the usual pictures.
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dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
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822 Posts
Posted - 06/30/2004 : 8:54:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Does anyone have any spare parts for a gew 98? I need a few parts to match up my rifle.
"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"
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The Great Billdildoe
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1910 Posts
Posted - 07/01/2004 : 8:11:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Apparently you need to read more posts in this thread - regarding parts.
" The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
Winston Churchill.
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2DOGS
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
397 Posts
Posted - 07/05/2004 : 9:29:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Only one Mauser in my collection,,,GEW98,,1917 AMBERG,,,ser#468m,,,Marked with 3 different types of crowns over shields,,,Lion with sword and shield,,,buttstock on right side is branded with letters EWB and B5.......SEMPER FI
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hawkracer16
Gunboards Member
USA
24 Posts
Posted - 07/08/2004 : 6:25:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
hey all. i've got a 1918 amberg, does anyone know if it could have been used in the tail of the First World War???
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Jimbeaux
Gunboards Premium Member
187 Posts
Posted - 07/08/2004 : 10:15:29 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
1916 Oberndorf A/N ser# 4336c
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dg13
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
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822 Posts
Posted - 07/08/2004 : 10:48:23 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
1918 AMBERG--TAIL END OF wwi--MOST DEFENITELY!
DG13
"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"
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TP
Moderator Military Mauser Forum
USA
2034 Posts
Posted - 07/10/2004 : 10:36:31 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote:Originally posted by dg13
1918 AMBERG--TAIL END OF wwi--MOST DEFENITELY!
DG13
Oh, yeah, no doubt about it! And it probably saw use during the post-War period when revolution was breaking out and there was trouble on the borders as well. Nice find.
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 07/15/2004 : 11:08:34 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Absolutely, and as it has the post war Bavarian "EWB" it saw some action post war also!
How about some images? Is the receiver blued or is it still in the white? Does the bolt match & if so is it blued? Tabgent or Lange rear sight?
We have confirmed serial ranges for 1917 Amberg into the "x" range- I don't think there is any doubt yours saw action or at least service.
quote:Originally posted by 2DOGS
Only one Mauser in my collection,,,GEW98,,1917 AMBERG,,,ser#468m,,,Marked with 3 different types of crowns over shields,,,Lion with sword and shield,,,buttstock on right side is branded with letters EWB and B5.......SEMPER FI
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jacobtowne
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2383 Posts
Posted - 07/21/2004 : 12:54:06 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
DWM 1907 SN 9712-1. Shortened to 98k after WWI. Captured by Soviets in WWII.
JT
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 07/22/2004 : 6:00:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Interesting, can you do pics?
The serial 9712 1 (is that an L or a 1?) I suspect an L as no DWM stern gewehr is "known" and as it is pre-war that is also a little unusual (only one other pre-war stern gewehr is known by me).
Currently 1907 DWM high serial is 5944 e so either way this would be an interesting rifle to verify!
Thanks
quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne
DWM 1907 SN 9712-1. Shortened to 98k after WWI. Captured by Soviets in WWII.
JT
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Dutchman
Moderator - Swedish Military Firearms Forum
USA
1439 Posts
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 4:12:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit Dutchman's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Gew98
Mauser Oberndorf 1917
8113v
Has 4 Turk characters on the bbl shank between the receiver
and rear sight. Stock has bolt take down grommet. Receiver is blued. Mismatched.
Dutchman
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2DOGS
Gunboards Super Premium Member
USA
397 Posts
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 4:16:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote:Originally posted by graf
Absolutely, and as it has the post war Bavarian "EWB" it saw some action post war also!
How about some images? Is the receiver blued or is it still in the white? Does the bolt match & if so is it blued? Tabgent or Lange rear sight?
We have confirmed serial ranges for 1917 Amberg into the "x" range- I don't think there is any doubt yours saw action or at least service.
I will try to post pics of my rifle, all numbers match including bolt, barrel, buttplate, magazine assy., all screws and barrel bands have last 2 digits of serial number on them also,,,,SEMPER FI
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quote:Originally posted by 2DOGS
Only one Mauser in my collection,,,GEW98,,1917 AMBERG,,,ser#468m,,,Marked with 3 different types of crowns over shields,,,Lion with sword and shield,,,buttstock on right side is branded with letters EWB and B5.......SEMPER FI
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
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1294 Posts
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 9:32:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks for the pics & the new serial (1917 MO are reported well into the "aa" range, & like yours most went to Turkey.)
The EWB is pretty cool; some of the pics look like blued receiver some maybe no? (I suspect probably so...) also no rear sight viewed but probably a tangent?
I like these EWB's, especially all matching ones!
Though that bolt looked suspicious from the image, post some better pics & we should be able to determine if legit German matching...
Not many of these post war Gewehr98M come up matching.
quote:Originally posted by Dutchman
Gew98
Mauser Oberndorf 1917
8113v
Has 4 Turk characters on the bbl shank between the receiver
and rear sight. Stock has bolt take down grommet. Receiver is blued. Mismatched.
Dutchman
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No longer a member
Starting Member
Vatican City
-9832 Posts
Posted - 07/31/2004 : 3:46:02 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I used to own this G-98.
J.P. Sauer & Sohn Suhl 1917 ser 1514
On the receiver above the Sauer markings is the Radom diamond shape. The markings on the stock
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JPS
Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector
USA
4436 Posts
Posted - 08/09/2004 : 1:14:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Yo Graf & T.P.
Sorry for not getting around to this sooner. Here you go.
1) Danzig 1901, sn - 4**g
2) Danzig 1902, sn - 83**g
3) DWM 1916, sn - 81**g
4) DWM 1916, sn - 85**dd
5) Spandau 1916, sn - 29**c
6) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916, sn 97**b
7) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1917, sn 48**g
8) Mauser Oberndorf 1917, sn - 23**n
9) Mauser Oberndorf 1918, sn - 91**b
Hope this info is of help. If you want photos of any of them, please let me know which ones.
Have a great week.
Warmest regards,
JPS
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The Great Billdildoe
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1910 Posts
Posted - 08/10/2004 : 7:06:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Sorry for not getting around to this sooner. Here you go.
Warmest regards,
JPS
[/quote]
JPS ; Now you need to do a part list for your needy imperial era configuration gewehrs...hint hint.
" The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
Winston Churchill.
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JPS
Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector
USA
4436 Posts
Posted - 08/10/2004 : 8:16:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Yo Bill,
That's why I emailed you and asked for updated lists. I have some time between now and my next business trip to go over my rifles carefully and log what I have and what I might need. I'll be in touch.
Warmest regards,
JPS
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 5:30:14 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks John, unfortunately no new highs off them- I will send my parts list & database v email...
quote:Originally posted by JPS
Yo Graf & T.P.
Sorry for not getting around to this sooner. Here you go.
1) Danzig 1901, sn - 4**g
2) Danzig 1902, sn - 83**g
3) DWM 1916, sn - 81**g
4) DWM 1916, sn - 85**dd
5) Spandau 1916, sn - 29**c
6) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916, sn 97**b
7) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1917, sn 48**g
8) Mauser Oberndorf 1917, sn - 23**n
9) Mauser Oberndorf 1918, sn - 91**b
Hope this info is of help. If you want photos of any of them, please let me know which ones.
Have a great week.
Warmest regards,
JPS
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fireman
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1907 DWM Berlin 648 d
Paul this is one I observed at the show today.
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graf
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Rich, did you pick it up?
The high for DWM in 1907 "so far" is 5944 e so pretty close!
1907 was a big year production wise for the Gewehr98... strangely enough I have seen more 1907 dated Gewehr98's than pretty much anyother year (pre war)- but from the database that wouldn't seem to hold true as several years with several manufacturers had much high production!
Danzig in 1904 & 05 went very high (1905 to the end of the U block!)
quote:Originally posted by fireman
1907 DWM Berlin 648 d
Paul this is one I observed at the show today.
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bjakimier
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Posted - 08/16/2004 : 4:20:28 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
This is my only GEW.98; posted on this forum for info just today:
Receiver: Top- Crown; over DANZIG; over 1915
Left side- Small eagle mark; over 5499; over cursive "d"
Right side- Three "crown" proof marks.
Barrel: Top- "S" inside a triangle; all inside a circle.
Left side- 5499
Top right side- Four Weimar era firing proof marks.
Perch313
Perch313
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What do the letters "EWB" stand for? I have owned several mauser rifles, onlt the G98 had the "EWB" on the stock.
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JR115
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Hello:
Here are a couple more:
Kar98a - Spandau 1909 #454 (1920 Reissue)
Gew98 - Mauser Oberndorf 1917 #4396
Best regards,
WL
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graf
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Posted - 09/06/2004 : 4:31:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Oh, you're teasing!!
Would love to see the 1909 Spandau Kar98a! These Spandau 98a's are very rare & desirable, never actually seen one- they are that rare!
The high (and only one reported in 1909) 1909 Spandau is #990. Spandau only made the Kar98a in 1908; 1909 & 1910- and never in significant numbers.
quote:Originally posted by JR115
Hello:
Here are a couple more:
Kar98a - Spandau 1909 #454 (1920 Reissue)
Gew98 - Mauser Oberndorf 1917 #4396
Best regards,
WL
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hoppes
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Posted - 09/08/2004 : 02:07:24 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
My only GEW 98. Bought about 8-10 years ago Oberndorf 1917
Barrel marked: Left side 8499 g
Top S
Top just at receiver 7,91
Receiver marked Left side Imperial mark y8499 8 Gew 98
g
Right side Three Imperial marks CAI(?)8mm-Turkey
Imperial bolt with number removed
Trigger group 2 Imperial marks 3644
May have gone to Turkey but has no other Turkish marks
Stock has Imperial markings on right buttstock, reverse S on comb.
Keep up the good work!! Interesting! Hoppes
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The Phantom
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Posted - 09/08/2004 : 02:27:58 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Gew. 98. - Erfurt 1916 - 4909
Special marks:
- Einwohnerwehr Bayern (EWB) mark can be partially seen on the stock.
- Unknown (to me) mark (Bl. 375) on the right side of the barrel.
Best regards.
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tplan
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Posted - 09/13/2004 : 1:28:54 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Gew 98 DWM 1915 9770 k
Simson & Co 1917 8525 e
Kar 98a Erfurt 1916 3534 f
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eulitathomas
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Posted - 09/21/2004 : 7:19:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hello Graf, Here is another Gew 98 =
Amberg 1917 #6898a
S/42K on sight base as well as eagles.
EWB on stock.
All match except the bolt.
Tom
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graf
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Posted - 09/22/2004 : 4:11:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks guys!
No new highs but all still valuable! As soon as I get done with the move I will try & form some sort of medium for this information.
quote:Originally posted by eulitathomas
Hello Graf, Here is another Gew 98 =
Amberg 1917 #6898a
S/42K on sight base as well as eagles.
EWB on stock.
All match except the bolt.
Tom
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David Murvihill
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Posted - 09/27/2004 : 9:03:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Kar 98 Erfurt 1916 #7486 with what looks like "hh" underneath on the receiver, and "aa" on the bolt. I was told it was a bring-back.
Gew 98 Oberndorf 1917 #2155 with a pitted stamping in front of it.
If no one minds I have a few questions about this rifle:
1. Under the # on the receiver is the lower half of the import stamp. It appears to be some field in NJ?
2. There is an "S" stamped behind and to the right of the rear sight. What is that?
3. On the right side of the barrel behind the rear sight is the top half of a stamping which appears to end in "Turkey". What is the whole thing?
4. Behind the stud on the bolt-side of the butt there is a red stripe painted or taped on (about60% flaked off, but the shadow remains) 3/8" wide and 1 1/2" long. Has anyone else seen this?
You didn't ask about "foreign" models, so I won't list those.
Thank you,
Dave Murvihill
Collector of Uncle Sam's Fantastic Toys.
(and Uncle Joe's, and Uncle Willie's, and Aunt Lizzie's, and...)
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tplan
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Gew. 98 Spandau 1917 # 6283. Bayard receiver, assembled as K-98k with what I am told is an East German barrel. Only one fractur proof on the right side, no imperial firing proof, what looks like a Weimar firing proof. I wonder when this receiver was first assembled into a complete rifle, and even when it was given a serial #?
John
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Deputy Dan
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Posted - 09/29/2004 : 6:46:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Almost forgot about these: (1) Gew98 DWM 1915 s/n 5488u (2) Gew98 Danzig 1916 s/n 9356y or possibly a z Tough to tell
Edited by - Deputy Dan on 10/01/2004 6:13:01 PM
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graf
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Posted - 10/09/2004 : 1:47:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
David, the "S" is a mark noting it uses S cartridge/ammunition- it is a mark you will find on almost all Gewehr98's...; the "NJ/Turkey" amrkings are the import markings that were put on the rifle when imported into the US, it was imported from Turkey (most 1917 & 1918 MO's saw service in Turkey); not sure on the red stripe? (perhaps an image? Probably something it picked up while in Turk service).
John;
Love to see detailed images of your 17 Spandau, though it won't help on the database, it sure sounds interesting...
Thanks for the serials!
quote:Originally posted by tplan
Gew. 98 Spandau 1917 # 6283. Bayard receiver, assembled as K-98k with what I am told is an East German barrel. Only one fractur proof on the right side, no imperial firing proof, what looks like a Weimar firing proof. I wonder when this receiver was first assembled into a complete rifle, and even when it was given a serial #?
John
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mupples
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Just one for me, and sadly it's been sporterized:
Schilling 1917 #4968a
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David Murvihill
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quote: David, the "S" is a mark noting it uses S cartridge/ammunition- it is a mark you will find on almost all Gewehr98's...; the "NJ/Turkey" amrkings are the import markings that were put on the rifle when imported into the US, it was imported from Turkey (most 1917 & 1918 MO's saw service in Turkey); not sure on the red stripe? (perhaps an image? Probably something it picked up while in Turk service).
I think this worked: (My first picture). The shadow of the worn off part of the stripe is clearly visible when the full image is viewed.
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Thank you,
Dave M.
Collector of Uncle Sam's Fantastic Toys.
(and Uncle Joe's, and Uncle Willie's, and Aunt Lizzie's, and...)
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graf
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Posted - 10/12/2004 : 10:35:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Got me... I have never seen similiar on a straight up Imperial rifle, so imo probably from it's Turk past or after?
You might try the Turk forum?
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avery53
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Posted - 10/18/2004 : 1:28:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I have a Spandau 1914 serial# 3158. The suffix looks like a 4, possibly a g, not sure. Crown on the receiver.
Every part on this rifle matches, even the screw #'s on the trigger guard are numbered correctly.
The stock has FR over T and a G over T.
Lots of other stamps and markings I have no idea what they mean.
This is my first GEW 98, so I have no knowledge yet.
Upper hand guard is missing, but other than that it's a neat old rifle. Not sporterized.
If there is other info needed, just ask and I will look.
avery53
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graf
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Posted - 10/24/2004 : 2:18:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Imaged is a "g" on a Spandau... is it like this?
We have 14 Spandau up to "j" so if it might be beyond that pictures would be great!
The random markings/proofs won't tell you much; unlike the 98k the frakturs don't tell a story. Can't track makers with them or date a rifle from them usually, sometimes if you have a good database you can find similarities between makers/years off the right receiver proofs- but nothing concrete!
Sounds like you have a keeper!
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quote:Originally posted by avery53
I have a Spandau 1914 serial# 3158. The suffix looks like a 4, possibly a g, not sure. Crown on the receiver.
Every part on this rifle matches, even the screw #'s on the trigger guard are numbered correctly.
The stock has FR over T and a G over T.
Lots of other stamps and markings I have no idea what they mean.
This is my first GEW 98, so I have no knowledge yet.
Upper hand guard is missing, but other than that it's a neat old rifle. Not sporterized.
If there is other info needed, just ask and I will look.
avery53
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DaSwede
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Posted - 10/27/2004 : 3:24:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
i picked up an odd one this weekend. the receiver is marked spandau 1899/16 and is marked on top of the receiver with the * above the crown. the gun is serial numbered 18xx over 1. i believe that this is not the original serial number of the gun, there are marks on the receiver that appear to obliterate another number. the barrel is marked with a large weimar eagle under the wood line. the receiver is marked with a WaA4 undr the wood line. the rear sight is s/42G marked. the stock appears to be converted from a Gew98 and is EWB marked and inletted to take a 98k bandspring. overall the gun is 98k length. i thought that stern gewehres were produced during ww1? were the stars also used on rebuild rifles? i can't even begin to guess how many times this one has been through the rebuild process.
thanks
rick
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The Great Billdildoe
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The original manufacture date was 1899. It was either rejected when initially made and sotred , then brought out and assembeld as a sterne gewehr in 1916 , or it received a through rebuild in 1916 and did not meet uniform specs and had to be marked as a sterne gewehr.
Sometime post 1920 it was modified with the tangent sight , but before that happened it was in the hands of the EWB.
I would be interested to see pics of barrel, band spring and front sight arrangements to see if it is a possible actual german conversion.If it was knocked down to 98k length the bolt should be turned down and stock inletted for it. If not the likelihood of this being a german conversion to 98k length is rather remote.
" The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
Winston Churchill.
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graf
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Posted - 10/28/2004 : 8:19:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Would be really cool if it is a 98k conversion!
Bill, how many "legit" Gewehr98 to 98k conversions have you observed over the years?
Rick, sounds like an interesting rifle, awhile back a friend picked up a 1907/20 Spandau stern gewehr (another salvaged receiver brought back during the war & re-issued post war), there is thread somewhere here on it.
Love to see pics of it- even more so Bill's views on it! (not real easy to get Mauserbills attention these days!)
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fireman
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Posted - 11/06/2004 : 3:01:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
2 more observed,
1905 Erfurt 9296 a
1916 Spandau, not marked as a stern gewehr 8105 e or l.
If some one can post an pic of a gothic e or l I ca confirm the letter block.
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graf
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Posted - 11/06/2004 : 6:16:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Rich; that 05 Erfurt is a new high, bumped it by 3600! (from 5673 a)...
No "l" suffix but I have an "ee" range for Spandau I can upload on file. The high for 16 Spandau is up there! (52xx mm)
Pics of the 05 Erfurt would be cool, or if not possible, how about details? Reworked/rearsenaled, unusual markings? Matching?
quote:Originally posted by fireman
2 more observed,
1905 Erfurt 9296 a
1916 Spandau, not marked as a stern gewehr 8105 e or l.
If some one can post an pic of a gothic e or l I ca confirm the letter block.
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Esquire
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Erfurt 1918 kar 98, s/n 1546. There is also stincled on the stock with white paint the number 339.
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fireman
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Paul, Glad to be of help. I am sorry no pics. I did not buy either one as both were significantly altered.
When I saw the first one I thought "bubba really screwed this up" An hour later I saw it again at a diffrent table, at least I thought it was the same one. Funny thing, diffrent dealers, table spread far apart and 2 identical "bubba" jobs.
Both were k98 length with a k98 type front sight, S/42 marked tangent sights, black enamal finish, imperial stocks cut down between the rear sight and rear band. The hand gaurd was a small(about 3") with 3 lines on the top of it. One bolt was Imperial German and one had some marks I did not recognize, maybe Turkish? Neither was inletted for the turned down bolt. Maybe some sort of Turkish civil issue?
Funny thing one guy wanted about $90 the other wanted $279!!
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archie360
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Posted - 11/19/2004 : 3:24:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Two more for ya...
1916 DWM #1290gg
1916 Oberndorf #7607n (turk)
The smoke from that corrosive ammo you shoot will rust my rifle. Please move a few benches away from me.
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JR115
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Posted - 11/20/2004 : 3:21:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graf:
Sorry for the delay. No teasing, here she is!
Best regards,
WL
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quote:Originally posted by graf
Oh, you're teasing!!
Would love to see the 1909 Spandau Kar98a! These Spandau 98a's are very rare & desirable, never actually seen one- they are that rare!
The high (and only one reported in 1909) 1909 Spandau is #990. Spandau only made the Kar98a in 1908; 1909 & 1910- and never in significant numbers.
quote:Originally posted by JR115
Hello:
Here are a couple more:
Kar98a - Spandau 1909 #454 (1920 Reissue)
Gew98 - Mauser Oberndorf 1917 #4396
Best regards,
WL
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graf
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Posted - 11/20/2004 : 9:11:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
That is awesome!
This is the first one I have seen images of, heard of them before of course but first rate to see one finally. Too bad Weimar’d as that would hurt a bit $$ wise if you ever unloaded it… Don’t get me wrong, I do like these Weimar rework rifles; especially as on these rare variations/makers they are the only way I can afford them!
I recently had the good fortune to buy a 1909/1920 Amberg (the current high actually) from MauserBill and in reality the only reason it panned out was because it was Weimar’d!
If straight up Imperial Bill would never have cut it loose & if he did for some reason I would still have been way short $$ wise to have a shot at it.
Thanks for the great images of it!
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NavyGunner
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Graf, here's a few more for you.
Mauser Oberndorf / 1916 SN 681h FB triangle Radom marked, converted to Kar98k in East Germany, dated 48 on receiver lug. I want to note that there is a K stamped between the Imperial acceptance mark and the serial number, is this a conversion designation?
Mauser Oberndorf / 1916 SN 7906m standard Gew98 with blued receiver.
DWM / 1917 SN 8320c standard Gew98 with bright receiver and Beech stock and handguard.
NavyGunner
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geejams
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Newbie here, Hello everyone I went hunting early this week with a friend and guess what. noticed he has a GEW 98 sporter30-06. Me a 30-06 rem. BUT I fell in love with his rifle to the point of making a trade.Info on gun is as follow. sn: 5950, 3 crowns over 3 letters U,V,G? A 9-68 OR 8-68 ON LEFT OF RECIVER. FINALY A # 60u behind safety bolt action. Any info on this gun. please reply thanks !
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graf
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Posted - 12/03/2004 : 10:46:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks NG!
Gee, hard to decipher the information you provided... across the top of the receiver there should be a maker & a date of manufacture, you seem to have made note of the right receiver assembly proofs, besides that I can't quite figure out the details.
quote:Originally posted by geejams
Newbie here, Hello everyone I went hunting early this week with a friend and guess what. noticed he has a GEW 98 sporter30-06. Me a 30-06 rem. BUT I fell in love with his rifle to the point of making a trade.Info on gun is as follow. sn: 5950, 3 crowns over 3 letters U,V,G? A 9-68 OR 8-68 ON LEFT OF RECIVER. FINALY A # 60u behind safety bolt action. Any info on this gun. please reply thanks !
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jwh2
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Posted - 12/06/2004 : 11:42:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
geejams,
It appears you have only part of a GEW98 that has been "sporterized" and rebarreled. The only thing that can be gleaned from the imformation you provided is the action is a GEW98 and it has the number 5950 stamped on it. The different number on the bolt part means it came from a different rifle.
There were almost a dozen makers of GEW98 rifles in Germany. Each of on them used the same serial numbering system. Starting at 01 through 9999, then 01a through 9999a, then 01b through 9999b, etc., through the alphabet. They repeated it each year.
The arsenal that built the rifle would have stamped their name and the year of manufacture on top of the receiver ring. For instance, "DANZIG, 1909" or Amberg, 1907", etc. And any one of them could have had a serial number of 5950 for any number of years, from 1898 through 1918.
So, look on top of the receiver ring of your rifle and if someone hasn't ground it off, you should find the maker of your receiver and the year it was made.
Hope this helps.
Paul, I hope I didn't mess up you research too much with this.
Joe
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NavyGunner
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Posted - 12/09/2004 : 12:43:09 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks NG!
Gee, hard to decipher the information you provided... across the top of the receiver there should be a maker & a date of manufacture, you seem to have made note of the right receiver assembly proofs, besides that I can't quite figure out the details.
Graf,
Mauser Oberndorf 1916 S/N 681h ( Left side of the receiver ring is marked with Imperial acceptance mark then K681/h ). The K is a different font style so was it was added later as a conversion designation by the East Germans or added when the rifle went in polish service, any ideas? The FB in triangle Radom mark is on top of the receiver just above the Mauser name. It was converted into a Kar98k in East Germany, dated 48 on receiver lug. I previously posted pics of the rifle, but if you'd like I can take some more for you?
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NavyGunner
I'm a political refugee from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts
Edited by - NavyGunner on 12/14/2004 6:59:28 PM
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graf
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Posted - 12/19/2004 : 02:08:28 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks Joe- no harm done- getting to be a long thread!
NG, I don't know squat about most post war alterations, can't see the markings on the pics you posted either?
Wish I could help you here but I am pretty much sticking to "original" serial numbers & Imperial/Weimar German done variations for this project...
There are just too many post war altered variations out there for me to keep an interest in following them!
I only keep records of them if the receiver markings are still Imperial German applied.
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Burrfoot
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Posted - 12/21/2004 : 11:00:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hello,
One gew98 here.
Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916 5204a
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graf
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Posted - 12/22/2004 : 05:35:23 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks, yours is the lowest observed serial number for that mfg/date- the highest in well into the "h" range (only one maker that year produced less- Simson)
quote:Originally posted by Burrfoot
Hello,
One gew98 here.
Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916 5204a
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NavyGunner
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Posted - 12/22/2004 : 6:53:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graf,
Thanks for looking at the Gew 98 - Kar98k. I found one with the same markings in Backbone of the Whermacht.
I posted pics of 2 Gewehr 1898 Modified that I recently picked up.
One is a Zn marked Spandau 1917/26 double date, s/n 2189. It also has the Siemens & Halske sub contract mark on the bottom of the receiver.
The other has just 1920 and the proof and acceptance marks on the receiver ring. It doesn't appear to have been ground to remove the crown and arsenal name. The s/n is 2043a. Have you seen any others like that?
NavyGunner
I'm a political refugee from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts
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graf
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Posted - 12/22/2004 : 9:12:13 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
NG;
I have been on the road allot lately & initially missed your posts, but I eventually saw the threads.
I couldn't add to what was posted by others- except that Siemens & Halske as well as Bayard did make some receivers for Spandau during the war. (apparently only Spandau as I have only seen these logos on Spandau receivers to date- as I recall 1917 mostly)
It had been discussed before a while back...
Regarding the Zn marking Wapruf2 knows as much as anyone & had a thread going if I recall clearly? Not sure where that lead?
I have only seen a very few of these- all similarly marked Zn or DZ & marked with the rebuild date (so far I have only seen 1924 & 1926 dated- unfortunately when I started my database, I didn’t record the markings, or even additional dates in the folder title so for me to search for specific marking such as DZ or Zn I have to view each folder, so I could have further examples but not be aware of it)
Regarding the unmarked variation no I have not seen any more of these (just yours & the other one recently displayed on one of the boards), probably a salvage of some sort, the German’s were fond of using what was on hand in an emergency.
Did that EWB stock match? What matched on that rifle?
I suggest you let Peter Kuck have a look at it as you guys live so close, he is very knowledgeable- plus if you buy him lunch he may let you in his bunker for a viewing! (been there twice & worth the trip alone!)
quote:Originally posted by NavyGunner
Graf,
Thanks for looking at the Gew 98 - Kar98k. I found one with the same markings in Backbone of the Whermacht.
I posted pics of 2 Gewehr 1898 Modified that I recently picked up.
One is a Zn marked Spandau 1917/26 double date, s/n 2189. It also has the Siemens & Halske sub contract mark on the bottom of the receiver.
The other has just 1920 and the proof and acceptance marks on the receiver ring. It doesn't appear to have been ground to remove the crown and arsenal name. The s/n is 2043a. Have you seen any others like that?
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nucchem
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Posted - 01/09/2005 : 8:21:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
graf, I have a gewehr 98 with the following on it.
DEUTCHEWAFFEN-UND
MUNUTIONS FABEIKEN
BERLIN
1917
Where will I find the serial number. I am new to this. The weapon I have was given to me by my grandfather who servered in WWI. Have have just about finished the restoration. Next is to test fire it. What other information can I provide you.
Nucchem
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peterkuck
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Graf
I am familiar with both of these rifles
"Thanks for looking at the Gew 98 - Kar98k. I found one with the same markings in Backbone of the Whermacht.
I posted pics of 2 Gewehr 1898 Modified that I recently picked up.
"One is a Zn marked Spandau 1917/26 double date, s/n 2189. It also has the Siemens & Halske sub contract mark on the bottom of the receiver.
The other has just 1920 and the proof and acceptance marks on the receiver ring. It doesn't appear to have been ground to remove the crown and arsenal name. The s/n is 2043a. Have you seen any others like that?"
I know how had owned them - They are mismatched but very interesting as was the 1933 standad modell that he acquired at the same time. He did get them for a good price.
regards
peter
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graf
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Posted - 01/10/2005 : 12:47:45 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Nucchem; the picture I have attached shows the serial number off a DWM I own (8899 e) yours should be similarly marked (the serial is on the left side of the receiver.)
Information desired is the serial number & mfg/date primarily, however details of anything unusual is also of interest (any special markings, alterations, evidence of rebuild etc...)
I want to compile a database as comprehensive as possible.
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quote:Originally posted by nucchem
graf, I have a gewehr 98 with the following on it.
DEUTCHEWAFFEN-UND
MUNUTIONS FABEIKEN
BERLIN
1917
Where will I find the serial number. I am new to this. The weapon I have was given to me by my grandfather who servered in WWI. Have have just about finished the restoration. Next is to test fire it. What other information can I provide you.
Nucchem
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dcj28
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I have a Spandau 1913, Ser 3434 d. Being new to all of this and to Mauser, can someone offer me the name of the best book for identifying all of these markings? I have some catch up to do.
Also on the barrel directly in front of the receiver ring is the marking 7.91. I was under the impression that this was the caliber, yet no one talks about 7.91, what have I got here? Why does it not have 7.92 stamped on it?
Thanks Dave
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graf
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Dave, if you could image that rifle I would like to see it as that would be a new high for 1913 Spandau- currently its 7984 c- so a good jump!
The bore measurement is for an armorer to measure wear & can be +/- .02 mm (I have seen 7.90 through 7.93).
Probably the best book in print is John Walters (dated but still as accurate as any in print) "The German Rifle" or his "Central Powers Small Arms of World War One" which essentially just reprints his rifle section.
Olson’s "Mauser Bolt Rifles" is also good but covers too much ground to be very useful. If money is no object buy Ball book on Military Mauser Rifles & Gotz's on German rifles too...
Truly the best way to catch up is to review past threads here & ask questions as there is far more information on this site than anywhere in a book- unfortunately!
quote:Originally posted by dcj28
I have a Spandau 1913, Ser 3434 d. Being new to all of this and to Mauser, can someone offer me the name of the best book for identifying all of these markings? I have some catch up to do.
Also on the barrel directly in front of the receiver ring is the marking 7.91. I was under the impression that this was the caliber, yet no one talks about 7.91, what have I got here? Why does it not have 7.92 stamped on it?
Thanks Dave
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type99
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Posted - 01/23/2005 : 07:44:32 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hello...
I have a Danzig 1917. All matching parts. Battle scarred (even has shrapnel in stock). Stock broken through the wrist with a stout field-type repair which does not affect shooting. Serial number is 2740 with what appears to be small script letter "s". But not sure on the suffix.
Marked large "B" on buttstock, as well as a large "G". Does anyone know what the "G" might signify.
I'll try to post pictures of receiver, but right now I am having a hard time figuring out how to insert image files.
Gary
Gary
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type99
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graf
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Thanks for the excellent pic to go with your data, yes I believe that is an "s" (interestingly enough Danzig on some pre-war Gewehr98's used the standard "s" rather than this incursive "s"- hard to tell when they changed though.)
Also interesting is we have a rifle only 1040 rifles off from yours in the database, very close when dealing with such large numbers made!
Regarding the butt markings, others covered your "B" marking for beech, I didn't see a "G" marking on the rifle, but I am assuming one of the right buttstock proofs?
There is usually a cypher/crowned FW & a couple inspection stamps there if your stock is "original" to the rifle (they vary some, though a crowned M is often seen for Danzig- not always) I have never read where someone has attributed a special meaning to these markings, other than inspection stamps.
If you have a "G" elsewhere than the right butt, image it & we will see if we can track it down.
quote:Originally posted by type99
Hello...
I have a Danzig 1917. All matching parts. Battle scarred (even has shrapnel in stock). Stock broken through the wrist with a stout field-type repair which does not affect shooting. Serial number is 2740 with what appears to be small script letter "s". But not sure on the suffix.
Marked large "B" on buttstock, as well as a large "G". Does anyone know what the "G" might signify.
I'll try to post pictures of receiver, but right now I am having a hard time figuring out how to insert image files.
Gary
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Peter in CA
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Here is my one and only (so far);
Mauser 1917, 3335 m
Peter
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graf
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Peter; give us some details... is it Turked? If matching what kind of stock does it have? We have a couple maple stocks observed in 1917 MO production.
Thanks for the serial!
quote:Originally posted by Peter in CA
Here is my one and only (so far);
Mauser 1917, 3335 m
Peter
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DMinFla
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Here is my one and only GEW 98 rifle info.DMinFla
1917 C.G.Haenel Suhl ser# 6343
Go here to enter your info for the
Survey on the MAS 1944,49 and 49/56 rifles
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=95237
The Adventure Team 1970-1976
Edited by - DMinFla on 01/30/2005 6:27:37 PM
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graf
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Does it have a suffix? (letter below the serial?)
Thanks!
quote:Originally posted by DMinFla
Here is my one and only GEW 98 rifle info.DMinFla
1917 C.G.Haenel Suhl ser# 6343
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dcj28
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Graf your DWM (8899 e)that you posted with a pic has a stamp on the left. What does that stamp mean? I have looked in a few books and have not found it yet. My Spandau 1913 has it as well.
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quote:Originally posted by nucchem
graf, I have a gewehr 98 with the following on it.
DEUTCHEWAFFEN-UND
MUNUTIONS FABEIKEN
BERLIN
1917
Where will I find the serial number. I am new to this. The weapon I have was given to me by my grandfather who servered in WWI. Have have just about finished the restoration. Next is to test fire it. What other information can I provide you.
Nucchem
[/quote]
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Peter in CA
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Posted - 01/31/2005 : 11:06:59 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
graf,
The Mauser 1917 is definately Turked. The barrel has the Turkish numbers on it that are different numbers than the receiver serial number. The rifle is a total mismatch. Bolt body is not numbered, but various parts of the bolt are numbered 18530.
The stock has an Imperial stamp on it, but it is hard to make out. The wood is something like walnut, but it is quite light, weight wise. I got a Czech vz98 at the same time that has a beech stock and the beech stock is quite a bit heavier than the Mauser stock.
It is a Navy Arms import, marked "N.A. Ridgefield", then "CAL 8MM TURKEY" in small letters on the receiver.
Peter
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graf
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It's the fire proof or power proof as some books call it, nearly all Gewehr98's will have it (don't know why some don't, but seen a couple like the 1902 DWM I have, perhaps Bill can chime in on that?) it represents the rifle passed a test firing with an overpowered cartridge.
T.P.
graf
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Posted - 01/03/2004 : 4:05:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Topic Send graf a Private Message Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Topic
This an attempt to “develop” a database of observed Imperial German rifles, this would include Weimar reworked rifles, rifles that served in other countries (Spain & Turkey) & even sporterized rifles- the only thing that is required is the maker markings & serial number must be “original” to the rifle.
Many times a rifle will have a altered receiver (SS service, some reworks have forced match numbers, sometimes foreign service will renumber the rifle) and these unfortunately can’t help.
We are after serial numbers most especially- as the suffix is especially important I would like to “see” the suffix if there is any doubt to what it might be. (It is very easy to misread certain letters.)
If privacy is desired you can email me graf@gewehr98.com(or TP), also if you have some reason to keep the full serial number private, the first two digits & suffix will do, images preferred (especially for new highs) but not required.
We need manufacturer/date; serial number & right receiver proofs (top/right/left receiver)- if there are any unusual markings or proofs that would also be of interest (dual manufactured/reworked rifles, & star marked receivers) . Particularly trying to find a pattern to the right receiver proofs.
Further, for the common wartime makers the higher the serial number the more likely it will be a new high number & these are of greater value for our study.
Common wartime makers are: Mauser Oberndorf; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; DWM
For all pre-war makers (Erfurt; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; Mauser Oberndorf; DWM) & for the “scarcer” wartime makers (JP Sauer; VC Schilling; Simson; CG Haenel; Oberspree Kornbusch/Oberpree- especially 1915 & 1918 dated rifles) all serial numbers are of value, because some of the makers are scarcely represented some years & a few we have only “book referenced existence”- no observed examples.
Some of the more desired manufacturer/date combinations are: all Erfurt production (1909, 1912, 1913, & 1918 have no observed rifles at all); Danzig 1913; Amberg 1911, 1912; quite a few MO are lightly represented- as are some pre-war DWM.
Thanks for any assistance-
Edited by - graf on 11/13/2005 1:39:30 PM
mman
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Gew98, 1898 Oberndorf, ser# 3174
Gew98, 1906 DWM. Ser# 2489a.
Gew98, 1915 Oberndorf, ser# 908r
Gew98, 1916/17 Spandau(Star) Ser#7763d
Gew98, JP Sauer&Son 1916 Ser# 1105t
Gew98 1917 Amberg, ser# 7509u
Gew98, 1917/1920 JP Sauer&Son,ser# 9714 c
Gew98, 1918/1920Spandau(Star)ser#5354-2
Jack
email at jcarnahan@citlink.net
A Mauser for me, a Mauser for you, all I want is a M1892. Spanish that is.
REAL Mausers are made at Oberndorf
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TP
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Working on the sticky thing.... (Maybe I should rephrase that..... )
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Jess
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Here's a few:
1) DWM 1916 ser#2120x
2) Erfurt 1905 ser#4533a (crown mkd)
3) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co ser# 8354c
4) Oberndorf 1917 ser#4005n
5) Spandau 1916 ser#2701m (crown mkd)
6) Danzig 1917 ser#4754z (1920 refurb, crown mkd, star rifle)
7) Erfurt 1916 ser#426, (Star rifle, crwon mkd. Bahnschuss marked)
8) Spandau 1920 rework, ser# 1076, (crown mkd., Bahnschuss marked)
9) CG Haenel Suhl 1918 (Spanish rework, Spanish #'d)
10) DWM 1917 orig ser# 5990 (Spanish 7mm rework)
11) Spandau/DZ 1917/18, orig ser #1670 (Spanish rework into M43 config)
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Jess
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Not sure how to edit my post, but forgot to mention: The Kornbusch is 1916.
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TP
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Posted - 01/03/2004 : 10:35:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote:Originally posted by Jess
Not sure how to edit my post, but forgot to mention: The Kornbusch is 1916.
Above your message there should be a bar with date and time. Beside that are several icons, including one with a piece of paper and a pencil. Click on that and it will allow you to edit the post.
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junok2002
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quote:Originally posted by graf
This an attempt to “develop” a database of observed Imperial German rifles, this would include Weimar reworked rifles, rifles that served in other countries (Spain & Turkey) & even sporterized rifles- the only thing that is required is the maker markings & serial number must be “original” to the rifle.
Many times a rifle will have a scrubbed receiver (SS service, some reworks have forced match numbers, sometimes foreign service will renumber the rifle) and these unfortunately can’t help.
We are after serial numbers- as the suffix is especially important I would like to “see” the suffix if there is any doubt to what it might be. (It is very easy to misread certain letters; e & r are a good example.)
If anonymity is desired you can email me Graff714@msn.com (or TP?), if you have some reason to keep the serial number private, the first two digits & suffix will do, images preferred (especially for new highs) but not required.
We need manufacturer, date & serial number- if there are any unusual markings or proofs that would also be of interest (dual manufactured/reworked rifles, & star marked receivers).
Further, for the common wartime makers the higher the serial number the more likely it will be a new high number & these are of greater value for our study.
Common wartime makers are: Mauser Oberndorf; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; DWM
For all pre war makers (Erfurt; Danzig; Spandau; Amberg; Mauser Oberndorf; DWM) & for the “scarcer” wartime makers (JP Sauer; VC Schilling; Simson; CG Haenel; Oberspree Kornbusch/Oberpree- especially 1915 & 1918 dated rifles) all serial numbers are of value, because some of the makers are scarcely represented some years & a few we have only “book referenced existence”- no observed examples.
Some of the more desired manufacturer/date combinations are: all Erfurt production (1908, 1909, 1912, 1913, & 1918 have no observed rifles at all); Danzig 1912 & 1913; Amberg 1911-13; quite a few MO are lightly represented- as are some pre war DWM.
Thanks for any assistance- For those who contribute information I will share our results.
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junok2002
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graf
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Posted - 01/21/2004 : 6:29:09 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
The 3 proofs on the right receiver are proofs that represent stages of assembly & passing inspection.
Bill probably has a better break down description but without me "looking it up" that should do?
A 1916 MO is pretty common & we don't have enough information to make a valuation judgment (whether matching, metal condition or even if it is a complete rifle).
Is it a Turk used Gewehr98? Kind of looks it... provide more information or images & I will give my opinion.
quote:Originally posted by imacbo
photos of my gew 98 can anyone help with value and codes http://www.villagephotos.com/image.asp?id_=7693002&sessionkey=
http://www.villagephotos.com/image.asp?id_=7692967&sessionkey=
http://www.villagephotos.com/image.asp?id_=7693003&sessionkey=
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Betonfahrer
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Gew.98 Danzig 1902,#160k has rear sight base down to 200m.
Gew.98 Danzig 1917#7343ff with 98k rear sight marked s/42
Gew.98 Simpson&co. 1916#5533c
Gew.98 VC Shilling 1916,#6194o
Kar.98a Danzig 1918 #9371a stamped 1920
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graf
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Posted - 01/23/2004 : 06:20:52 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks!
The 1902 Danzig sounds very interesting with the 200m sight!
Jack & Bill (among others) have been seeking information on these original sights, could you do images of the rifle, especially the 200m sight?
quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer
Gew.98 Danzig 1902,#160k has rear sight base down to 200m.
Gew.98 Danzig 1917#7343ff with 98k rear sight marked s/42
Gew.98 Simpson&co. 1916#5533c
Gew.98 VC Shilling 1916,#6194o
Kar.98a Danzig 1918 #9371a stamped 1920
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Petereye05
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Paul,
Still only one Haenel - I said they were too busy making bayonets. According to the list, at this stage, they only made ONE Gew98 - probably a " Presentation Piece "
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graf
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Posted - 01/23/2004 : 4:56:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Haenel did make a pile of bayo's!
I also would expect to see more Haenel made or reworked rifles, as they are fairly consistently high on the "known" production when compared to the other Suhl makers!
quote:Originally posted by Petereye05
Paul,
Still only one Haenel - I said they were too busy making bayonets. According to the list, at this stage, they only made ONE Gew98 - probably a " Presentation Piece "
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imacbo
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it's uncut in about 70% overall shape. The numbers don't match. But over all good shape. shoots very good.
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Betonfahrer
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Posted - 01/24/2004 : 09:06:17 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote:Originally posted by graf
Thanks!
The 1902 Danzig sounds very interesting with the 200m sight!
Jack & Bill (among others) have been seeking information on these original sights, could you do images of the rifle, especially the 200m sight?
quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer
Gew.98 Danzig 1902,#160k has rear sight base down to 200m.
Gew.98 Danzig 1917#7343ff with 98k rear sight marked s/42
Gew.98 Simpson&co. 1916#5533c
Gew.98 VC Shilling 1916,#6194o
Kar.98a Danzig 1918 #9371a stamped 1920
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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Betonfahrer
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Graff, I will try to ger pics and post them. Still a greenhorn to all this- the Danzig 02 has the sight leaf for the spitzer cartrige, the base was not changed. Do you want pics even though it isnt a entire "j" rear sight assy?
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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Betonfahrer
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Posted - 01/24/2004 : 09:18:27 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
More Gew98 sn's.
Amberg 1915 3897l
CG Hanel 1916 1248c has the 98k rear sight-no 1920
Amberg 1918 8582c nazi proof on barrel 98k rear sight
Danzig 1916 6630ll has 98k rear sight
Danzig 1914 258c
Kar98a Erfurt 1916 7581r
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Betonfahrer
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Posted - 01/24/2004 : 10:45:15 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
graff, rear sight for 1902 and sn pics for Danzig 1916 10000rr
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Betonfahrer
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Posted - 01/24/2004 : 10:52:21 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
cant get pics to work, I did ok on the test fourm but having no luck here. I'll keep trying .
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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Betonfahrer
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sight pic for 1902 Danzig,sn. on 1916 Danzig 10000rr?
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While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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The Great Billdildoe
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Posted - 01/24/2004 : 11:41:43 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
'B-man' This is actually the norm on pre 1904 gew98's having had only their L.v. leaf & slides replaced for the S patrone.Only on thorough rebuilds or rebarrel jobs did they install the 400 meter battle sight setting sight base. Drop me an email if you have mismatch bit's on your straight imperial gew98's as I may be able to help you with parts swapping to match them up a bit.
As for the serial being 10,000 spot on.First I have ever seen or heard of it.I had always been under the assumption they reached 9,999 and went to # 1 on the next alpha prefix. Is the bolt , handguard , triggerguard , buttplate and stock serialed with the same #10000 serial number ?.
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graf
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Posted - 01/24/2004 : 1:41:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
It is also the first example I have seen with the 10,000 serial, though I have recently seen two pistols that sport such serial numbers (P08 & a P38) links below:
http://lmd-militaria.com/page46.html
http://lmd-militaria.com/page41.html
I would really like to see more of this 1916 rifle as it is very interesting… the 200m sight thing was my error, I was under the impression it was an “unaltered” rear sight (after re-reading your earlier post I see you mentioned just the base) & very few are out there!
Earlier I misunderstood you again & thought the 5 digit serial & the 200m were the same rifle!
Of course that is impossible for such an early maker with such a huge serial number extension… only on the re-read to I see it was a 1916 Danzig- I will have to slow down on my reading!
quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer
sight pic for 1902 Danzig,sn. on 1916 Danzig 10000rr?
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hoppes
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61 Posts
Posted - 01/26/2004 : 12:23:46 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Can contirbute one GEW 98
Oberndorf
1917
Serial number 8499g
All Imperial but not matching
Has 8mm Turkey stamped on right receiver but no other foreign marks
Bolt is Imperial but serial number ground off
Trigger asembly # 3644
Buttplate #7137
Interesting data! Keep up the good work!!
Hoppes
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Betonfahrer
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463 Posts
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 12:22:36 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graff and GreatBill, here are some pics of the 5 digit Danzig 1916. I have not taken the rifle out of the stock, due to the shrapel or bullet damage for fear of damaging the stock further. the triggerguard was distorted by the impact. The buttplate on the rifle has the entire sn. stamped on it. the bands and small parts have just the 00 on them. Thanks for all the response, I am glad I was able to contribute to this topic. Keith
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Betonfahrer
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463 Posts
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 12:48:09 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graff and Great Bill, the pics on the 200m sight Danzig 1902. I bought the rifle with no bolt or floor plate. Everything that was there matched. The bayonet lug is what I considered the early type. When do you feel that they went to the later style bayonet lug that had the dished out area ? I have seen a 1899 Danzig that was very rough, and I may be able to get info on a 1900 Danzig. Thanks again, Keith.
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The Great Billdildoe
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1910 Posts
Posted - 01/30/2004 : 5:45:24 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
B man ; As I have dsicussed before the 1903 - 1904 changes were :
Update existing gew98's to S patrone and replace L.v. leaf and slide , firing pin safety shoulders added , gas ports in bolt body enlarged , new rear sight assembly specifically for the S patrone , and new pattern stronger bayonet lug. The early pattern bayo lug that has an open top exposing wood in barrel channel was replaced by the solid "top" type with contoured gap area.
Anything mismatch on your 1902 ??. As for the 16 Danzig - it's way way cool. Neat serial , excellent condition and maybe morbid but awesome battle damage. Bill.
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TP
Moderator Military Mauser Forum
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Posted - 01/30/2004 : 6:00:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Betonfahrer, I agree with Bill. Those are two exceptionally interesting examples.
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graf
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Posted - 01/30/2004 : 7:52:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Totally agree- fascinating rifles!
One thing I find especially note worthy is the fact that in the last few months I have seen two variations (single digit serial- 2 c on an 1901 Erfurt; and then again on the 1916 Danzig with the 5 digit serial...) both interesting variations and both outside of what is "normally" accepted. Further note that upon "reasonable" proof MauserBill accepted both openly & enthusiastically.
I have seen & participated in threads where MauserBill's "open mindedness" was questioned, essentially saying that he wasn't open to views other than one's he was advancing...
Not that I needed convincing, but any unbiased observer would be hard pressed to think that MauserBill is anything if not objective!
quote:Originally posted by TP
Betonfahrer, I agree with Bill. Those are two exceptionally interesting examples.
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Betonfahrer
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Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:20:06 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe
B man ; As I have dsicussed before the 1903 - 1904 changes were :
Update existing gew98's to S patrone and replace L.v. leaf and slide , firing pin safety shoulders added , gas ports in bolt body enlarged , new rear sight assembly specifically for the S patrone , and new pattern stronger bayonet lug. The early pattern bayo lug that has an open top exposing wood in barrel channel was replaced by the solid "top" type with contoured gap area.
Anything mismatch on your 1902 ??. As for the 16 Danzig - it's way way cool. Neat serial , excellent condition and maybe morbid but awesome battle damage. Bill.
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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Betonfahrer
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Posted - 01/30/2004 : 11:28:36 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
ON the 1902 Danzig, everything matches,But I had to put a bolt and a floorplate on it to complete the rifle.Someday I would like to find a Gew98 bolt body,I just put a un-numbered czech bolt in it.I know that this is not a gew98 question but do you know where I can get a Gew88 bolt head? I am rambling sorry but to finish the 1902 the bolt and floorplate are the only non-matching parts.
thanks again for all the info,
Keith
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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The Great Billdildoe
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Posted - 01/31/2004 : 12:14:43 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I have a # 60 follower and a gew98 bolt all matched to itself ending in # 60 ( # 5560 d to be precise ). I owuld trade the # 60 follower for another straight imperial follower.I am betting since your floorplate was mismatch your follower will be as well - they usually are in such cases. Same goes for the bolt in swap if you have a matched to itself imperial gew98 bolt.
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graf
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1294 Posts
Posted - 01/31/2004 : 12:48:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I have a significant number of Imperial bolt bodies, and several floorplates- but none ending with #60...
If you can't work out a trade with Bill drop me an email: graff714@msn.com
quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer
ON the 1902 Danzig, everything matches,But I had to put a bolt and a floorplate on it to complete the rifle.Someday I would like to find a Gew98 bolt body,I just put a un-numbered czech bolt in it.I know that this is not a gew98 question but do you know where I can get a Gew88 bolt head? I am rambling sorry but to finish the 1902 the bolt and floorplate are the only non-matching parts.
thanks again for all the info,
Keith
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p3skyking
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212 Posts
Posted - 01/31/2004 : 7:04:26 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
It took awhile, but here they are;
Schilling-------1916 ---- 2778e
Spandau---------1909 ---- 6152a
Kornbusch-------1916 ---- 9727c
DWM-------------1916---- 3090r
Mauser----------1916---- 515dd
Danzig----------1902---- 1007h
Amberg----------1917---- 7817r
Simson----------1917---- 2602d (EWB marked stock)
Karab 98b
BLANK--------------------7274e
KAR 98A (98AZ)
Erfurt----------1915---- 1756k
Edited by - p3skyking on 01/31/2004 7:22:07 PM
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graf
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Posted - 01/31/2004 : 11:25:03 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks Mike, I remember a couple of these...
The 1909 Spandau was a new high when I first saw it last year, but although I did get a somewhat decent image of the rifle when it was sold on GB, it was not clear enough to make it a confirmed serial.
Were you the winner of it? Can you confirm the serial, as for now I have it marked as the “probably high” for 1909 Spandau?
quote:Originally posted by p3skyking
It took awhile, but here they are;
Schilling-------1916 ---- 2778e
Spandau---------1909 ---- 6152a
Kornbusch-------1916 ---- 9727c
DWM-------------1916---- 3090r
Mauser----------1916---- 515dd
Danzig----------1902---- 1007h
Amberg----------1917---- 7817r
Simson----------1917---- 2602d (EWB marked stock)
Karab 98b
BLANK--------------------7274e
KAR 98A (98AZ)
Erfurt----------1915---- 1756k
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p3skyking
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Posted - 02/01/2004 : 12:12:36 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Confirmed on that Spandau 1909 number. I was the high bid on that auction. I want to thank you for compiling these numbers. This is a much needed bank of information. Looking forward to the eventual results!
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lite-box
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616 Posts
Posted - 02/07/2004 : 01:29:30 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
DWM 1917 3341u
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graf
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Posted - 02/08/2004 : 01:52:34 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Chuck, that is a high serial for DWM in 1917 (current high is 3208 r) I would like to see images of this one if you don't mind?
You seem to be the DWM man, as your 1902 DWM was also a high (actually it was the first observed example!)
quote:Originally posted by lite-box
DWM 1917 3341u
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Rustybore
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Posted - 02/08/2004 : 1:57:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I'll add a few to the list:
1907 DWM 4398
1913 Danzig k98a 2410a
1915 Mauser 1190t(could be r) (reconfig to 98k to Norway 7.62 kal)
1917 Mauser 5337
Kevin in Or.
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lite-box
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616 Posts
Posted - 02/08/2004 : 10:47:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Download Attachment:
223.24 KB1917 DWM pics; rifle came with a 98a bolt, broken lower band and minus handguars ans has a spliced duffel cut. looks like a U to me...
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Graf have been able to decipher anymore info on the 1902 after handling it ?
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graf
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Posted - 02/09/2004 : 5:57:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Very nice pics!
It is definitely a new high for DWM in 1917… although I am of the opinion that is more likely a “v” rather than a “u”, I would very much like to get others opinion regarding this.
I will attach images of several rifles with both suffix styles- this is the reason why images of serial numbers is so important as there is variation to the letters & it is often difficult to discern certain letters!
The 1902 DWM is very cool & I sure do look forward to “restoring” it!
It had more original parts on it than I expected & it has significant potential imo.
I did not notice anything different than when you initially imaged it (your imaging is very clear & thorough!).
It is a largely original naval contract Gewehr98 that has been reworked during the 30’s with a new barrel put on it.
I suspect the barrel is older than the tangent sight base (S/42G for 1935) as the proofs on the barrel look earlier to me.
I think this rifle has been reworked or rebuilt several times (notice the “matching” stock was a post 1916 stock & then the barrel/blued receiver for a total of 2 reworks minimum).
Two DWM rifles & both highs for the list (the 1902 was not only a high but the first “observed” for DWM in 1902… though it was known they existed)
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graf
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Posted - 02/09/2004 : 6:13:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Here are several examples of u & v suffix styles.
1917 Amberg; 1917 MO; 1915 Spandau; the last two the best example as it shows two 1917 Erfurt 98a rifles...
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lite-box
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Posted - 02/10/2004 : 05:46:16 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graf, Is it common for Erfurt 98a's like the one in yor pics to have two serial # suffix's ? My 1917 Erfurt 98a is 4147nn. I havn't seen to many 98a's, they like the GEW's are very uncommon out west...unsporterized that is !
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graf
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Posted - 02/10/2004 : 12:11:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
It was quite common on wartime production... 1915; 1916; 1917 & 1918 Erfurt production. Only Erfurt reached the double suffix with 98a production (imo).
1917 far & away was top production for the 98a (Erfurt produced alone the 98a in 1917).
I cropped the rifles serial some as the rifle (unfortunately) is not mine- it is the current high by far for 1917 Erfurt!
Your nn suffix is very near the end of 1917 as double v is the current high. Erfurt must of been pouring out production by 1917 to reach the double v range!
quote:Originally posted by lite-box
Graf, Is it common for Erfurt 98a's like the one in yor pics to have two serial # suffix's ? My 1917 Erfurt 98a is 4147nn. I havn't seen to many 98a's, they like the GEW's are very uncommon out west...unsporterized that is !
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rmeron
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Posted - 02/16/2004 : 5:26:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
My only Mauser is a Mod 98 PREDUZECE 44,don't know much else about it
RMERON
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The Great Billdildoe
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Posted - 02/21/2004 : 9:19:02 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Saw a neat 1899 erfurt a buddy got at the SOS show. It is a bit rough on the outside and a tad mismatched , but it's quite the naval gewehr98 for sure.
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TP
Moderator Military Mauser Forum
USA
2034 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 01:27:36 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit TP's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Is it just me or do the JP Sauer & Sohn made rifles seem very hard to find? I've only seen one and am trying to work out a deal on it.
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Petereye05
Gunboards Member
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87 Posts
Posted - 03/02/2004 : 12:52:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
TP,
Yes - they are as rare as Haenel made Gew98's
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graf
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Posted - 03/02/2004 : 5:22:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I think most of the Suhl makers are a little tougher than the meat & potatoes makers (the arsenals, DWM & MO)... I own 2 JP Sauer’s (1 1916 project rifle & a 1917 quality matching rifle) and I like them very much!
I never cared for JP Sauer production of the 98k, though I have owned several examples of them over the years also... they were the first of my 98k rifles I sold or traded off.
In my personal database I have examples of (5) 1916 dated JP Sauer’s & (4) 1917 dated JP Sauer’s- no examples from 1915 or 1918 which as we have discussed earlier are rare- or should I say scarce???
I think 1916 or 1917 JP Sauer production a little tougher to locate but not rare or scarce- imo Haenel & Schilling are tougher to find! (at least from my experience)
Oh, pure production/serial extensions from the database (Suhl makers only... this can be a little misleading as WOK is not listed and it was always competing with Simson for the low spot!).
Lowest to highest production- Suhl only:
1915- Simson; Sauer; Haenel Schilling
1916- Simson; Haenel; Schilling; Sauer
1917- Simson; Haenel; Sauer; Schilling
1918- Simson; Sauer; Haenel; Schilling
Anyway you look at it, any of the Suhl makers are "rarer" than the arsenals, MO & DWM who sometimes put out double any of the Suhl makers!
quote:Originally posted by TP
Is it just me or do the JP Sauer & Sohn made rifles seem very hard to find? I've only seen one and am trying to work out a deal on it.
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Edited by - graf on 03/02/2004 5:45:38 PM
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The Great Billdildoe
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Posted - 03/02/2004 : 5:39:15 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I have to add I have had a fair amount of luck finding JP sauer gew98's , the majority of them 1916 .I don't thnik them rare or scarc for 16 or 17 dates. As all noted any nice matching 18 dated gew98 is a scarce bird. I have had only one matching 1918 dated gew98 - a VC Schilling.But it was so horribly shattered at the wrist and repaired nicely - but still looked horrible I let a buddy in VA have it... it was just too hard on the eyes !!.
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fergus
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Posted - 03/02/2004 : 5:40:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graf.....did you catch the 1916 C.G. Haenel that went at auction a few weeks back?
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graf
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Posted - 03/02/2004 : 6:01:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I saw all $770 of it go out!
Dan did well on that one & I was a little surprised on how well it did- even with a sling he did full retail on it- (imo).
This is a lesson (one well learned by me selling off numerous rifles myself v. AA ) for those bonehead sellers who refuse to show details... clear, quality pictures & honest, knowledgeable description will bring solid prices on the gun auction sites!
When I sell a rifle I post a couple dozen pics & show every detail (plus a detailed/knowledgeable text) and have made top dollar more times than not!
For the curious: http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=5489898
quote:Originally posted by fergus
Graf.....did you catch the 1916 C.G. Haenel that went at auction a few weeks back?
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petersen43
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238 Posts
Posted - 03/04/2004 : 6:47:39 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi,
Just bought a Gew.98 this afternoon. It is a JP Sauer/1916. Rifle is totally matching down to the cleaning rod, serial number is 1903n. Rifle has a unit disc instead of a bolt takedown disc, however, there is no unit info stamped onto the disc. Rifle has never been modified, and is not import marked. Hope this helps!-George
"What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
-Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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graf
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Posted - 03/05/2004 : 10:19:44 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks for the addition... in 1916 Sauer went to the t range; still you did well to find one totally matching!
It is a rare thing to find 1916 dated Imperial rifles with unit markings- I have seen only a couple, one of which was marked to a MG unit! (this was a 98a)
In 1916 they started the process of elimination of the disk & use of the take down/finger grips...
quote:Originally posted by petersen43
Hi,
Just bought a Gew.98 this afternoon. It is a JP Sauer/1916. Rifle is totally matching down to the cleaning rod, serial number is 1903n. Rifle has a unit disc instead of a bolt takedown disc, however, there is no unit info stamped onto the disc. Rifle has never been modified, and is not import marked. Hope this helps!-George
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petersen43
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238 Posts
Posted - 03/06/2004 : 11:35:48 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hi Graf,
Thanks for the info. I have been collecting k98s for several years, and this is my first gew98. I paid $350 out the door for it, and feel I got a great deal on it. I was told the rifle had been brought in by an oil burner mechanic earlier in the day, who'd gotten it from an older customer of his when he'd seen it while working in the mans basement. The problem with buying the gun from a shop is that they'll never give you the contact info on the guy who brought a gun in to allow you to research it's history, or even agree to forward your info to the guy in most cases. When I got the rifle home, I tried looking into it in my copy of "The German Rifle", but they don't even mention JP Sauer being a Gew98 manufacturer (as of 1979 anyway). They also state that by 1916, all rifles had a takedown disc and finger grooves in the forend, though mine had neither, which is when I went onto gunboards to see what I could find out about it. Anyone know if the Sarco repro slings for the gew98 are worth buying? Thanks again for the info-George
"What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
-Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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graf
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Posted - 03/06/2004 : 7:49:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I doubt many would argue that you didn’t get a great deal!
$350 is a fine price for what you describe…
Yes, in the article I did for the MRJ a year or two back I wrote of the strange fact that John Walter neglected to mention JP Sauer in his book!
Even more unusual (and much less justifiably) he left it out again in his more recent “Central Powers Small Arms of World War One” printed in 1999!
Although John Walters’s books have minor errors, they are the best books in print on the subject (imo)- so far!
I generally don’t buy from the big dealers… if I were in to buying one I would try TP or occasionally eBay has one (not sure of the source of these- they may even be from Sarco?) but I have had so many bad experiences with most of the large surplus dealers (years ago granted) that I disregard them altogether these days.
quote:Originally posted by petersen43
Hi Graf,
Thanks for the info. I have been collecting k98s for several years, and this is my first gew98. I paid $350 out the door for it, and feel I got a great deal on it. I was told the rifle had been brought in by an oil burner mechanic earlier in the day, who'd gotten it from an older customer of his when he'd seen it while working in the mans basement. The problem with buying the gun from a shop is that they'll never give you the contact info on the guy who brought a gun in to allow you to research it's history, or even agree to forward your info to the guy in most cases. When I got the rifle home, I tried looking into it in my copy of "The German Rifle", but they don't even mention JP Sauer being a Gew98 manufacturer (as of 1979 anyway). They also state that by 1916, all rifles had a takedown disc and finger grooves in the forend, though mine had neither, which is when I went onto gunboards to see what I could find out about it. Anyone know if the Sarco repro slings for the gew98 are worth buying? Thanks again for the info-George
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Vulch
Moderator English Gun Pub
Australia
6297 Posts
Posted - 03/14/2004 : 05:32:47 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Sorry to take so long chiming in.
Only got one Gew98 now - sold the 1917 Haenel. My remaining Gew98 is a V. CHR Schilling, 1917, serial 1780 b (ENTIRELY matching)
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feldmutze
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Posted - 03/14/2004 : 5:45:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Vulch, for having only one gew98 left (and only showing us the one photo), that sure looks to be nice!
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Betonfahrer
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463 Posts
Posted - 03/16/2004 : 11:53:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Found the other Gew&Kar 98s
Kar 98 Danzig 1918 9371a
Kar 98 Danzig 1912 8477
Gew 98 Danzig 1914 4070a
Gew 98 Danzig 1916 5414j
Keith
While much is too strange be belived, nothing is to strange to have happened-Thomas Hardy
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r_t_darc
Gunboards Member
USA
49 Posts
Posted - 03/21/2004 : 2:22:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Have a few more to add to your list:
Kar 98 - Erfurt 1916, # 9860cc
Kar 98 - Erfurt 1917, # 1963mm
slightly off topic - Kar98b #7386d
(this is a blank receiver/square S)
Gew 98 - Danzig 1917, # 3128t
Gew 98 - D.W.M. 1918, # 7118c
Gew 98 - O/dorf 1917, # 4659n
Gew 98 - Spandau1904, # 7095c
Gew 98 - Spandau1916, # 7096
(Kinda cute quirk of serial no's
on these two Spandau's... )
Following two guns are salvaged Gew
receivers rebuilt into K98k config:
1916 DWM - #6188e
1916 DWM - #2210bb
Hope I've helped out just a little-
Rich M.
r.t. Darc
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 5:24:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Rich, you sure did!
As surprising as it may seem some of your very high serial numbers are not high's- several are very close!
However, one is a new high, 1904 Spandau ser. 7095 c (the old high was 3948 b so it is a good jump!) Can you do images?
In 20+ years of collecting, I haven’t seen many Gewehr98/98k conversions (legit ones anyway) awesome that you have two! (Of course any 98b is cool), - you have an impressive collection!
quote:Originally posted by r_t_darc
Have a few more to add to your list:
Kar 98 - Erfurt 1916, # 9860cc
Kar 98 - Erfurt 1917, # 1963mm
slightly off topic - Kar98b #7386d
(this is a blank receiver/square S)
Gew 98 - Danzig 1917, # 3128t
Gew 98 - D.W.M. 1918, # 7118c
Gew 98 - O/dorf 1917, # 4659n
Gew 98 - Spandau1904, # 7095c
Gew 98 - Spandau1916, # 7096
(Kinda cute quirk of serial no's
on these two Spandau's... )
Following two guns are salvaged Gew
receivers rebuilt into K98k config:
1916 DWM - #6188e
1916 DWM - #2210bb
Hope I've helped out just a little-
Rich M.
Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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http://gewehr98.com/
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 5:31:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks Lewis & Keith, that is a sad thing parting with the Haenel!
Though the Schilling is nicer (at least from the pics you have shared with us in the past) I would of had a hard time parting with it...
quote:Originally posted by Betonfahrer
Found the other Gew&Kar 98s
Kar 98 Danzig 1918 9371a
Kar 98 Danzig 1912 8477
Gew 98 Danzig 1914 4070a
Gew 98 Danzig 1916 5414j
Keith
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The Great Billdildoe
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1910 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 9:37:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe
I have to add I have had a fair amount of luck finding JP sauer gew98's , the majority of them 1916 .I don't thnik them rare or scarc for 16 or 17 dates. As all noted any nice matching 18 dated gew98 is a scarce bird. I have had only one matching 1918 dated gew98 - a VC Schilling.But it was so horribly shattered at the wrist and repaired nicely - but still looked horrible I let a buddy in VA have it... it was just too hard on the eyes !!.
..............
............... Well don't you know when speaking of the devile... I got that schilling back in trade today. So it's home to stay.And in retrospect the damage that was repaired was nowhere near as horrible as I had lead myself to believe.
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 03/22/2004 : 10:04:30 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Geez, that's nice!
Let's see the damage... I can't imagine me passing on this rifle even if the buttstock was gone!
This is the first straight up "Imperial" 1918 Schilling I have seen- cool rifle!
I have my fingers crossed that you'll find something you can’t afford so you can sell this one to me!!
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r_t_darc
Gunboards Member
USA
49 Posts
Posted - 03/26/2004 : 12:13:51 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I've gotten together some photos of my Spandau 1904
that might possibly be the highest number reported so far.
Their quality isn't so good, as all were taken with my
very inexpensive PC web-cam. To make up for this lack
of quality, I added in some more in the way of quantity!
The rifle is an early WW2 rework with Su-4 & Su-28
markings. The rebuild date can be pinned down pretty
well, as the rear sight base bears a 1941 stamp, while
the rear band is dated 1940; I'd guess Jan or Feb '41.
While not in the original WW1 configuration, it is still
in very nice condition, with a matching straight bolt.
The part numbers are not lined out or over-stamped,
as on many rebuilt rifles. I hope I haven't let down
all the purists out there too badly, but I do have a
soft spot for these WW1 veterans that got drafted
for another round of service by the Third Reich .
r.t. Darc
Edited by - r_t_darc on 03/27/2004 01:15:20 AM
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r_t_darc
Gunboards Member
USA
49 Posts
Posted - 03/26/2004 : 12:40:26 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Images are of 1&2:Receiver, 3:Barrel left, 4:Bolt handle, 5:Buttstock stamp, 6:Barrel right, 7:Rear band markings, 8:Rear sight base.
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By the way, does anyone have a good idea which organization used
the "Su #" stampings found on various rebuilt WW1 weapons ? (I
also have an Su4/1938 marked butcher blade bayonet for the rifle)
Thanks for the chance to add to the discussion and information !
r.t. Darc
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The Great Billdildoe
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1910 Posts
Posted - 03/26/2004 : 05:42:26 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
RT ; the Su proof if I remember correctly from my friend Dietrich is Simson Uberrect ( spelling may be off ). Anyhow with the MP8 cartouche your rifle, or at least the stock was sent to spain as that is a spanish rework proof.
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r_t_darc
Gunboards Member
USA
49 Posts
Posted - 03/27/2004 : 01:31:57 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
That just adds another wrinkle to the gun's history!
During what time period would the MP 8 marking have
been used in Spain? The serial number on the stock
is rather worn,but it does appear to match the rest.
The stock metal is all German proofed, but the 'MP'
is the only remaining stamp on the butt of the gun.
r.t. Darc
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The Great Billdildoe
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1910 Posts
Posted - 03/27/2004 : 08:55:09 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
The MP 8 cartouche as I recall was a post WW2 era ( post span civ war more likely ) rebuild mark the spainish applied to ANY rifle they refurbished - whether issued or placed in storage. To include weapons captured from the communists.I have seen this cartouche on Winchester 95's , Mosins , Wz29's ,Vz24 & 23's , Gew98's.
Edited by - The Great Billdildoe on 03/27/2004 08:56:52 AM
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r_t_darc
Gunboards Member
USA
49 Posts
Posted - 03/28/2004 : 8:58:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote:Originally posted by The Great Billdildoe
The MP 8 cartouche as I recall was a post WW2 era ( post span civ war more likely ) rebuild mark the spainish applied to ANY rifle they refurbished - whether issued or placed in storage. To include weapons captured from the communists.I have seen this cartouche on Winchester 95's , Mosins , Wz29's ,Vz24 & 23's , Gew98's.
Wow - That's quite a range of captured weaponry!
Maybe that's where the Russians got the idea to ware-
house every item ever captured by them during WW2
Looks like my Gewehr took an unexpected detour, maybe
during the Spanish Civil War? Thanks for the info!
r.t. Darc
Edited by - r_t_darc on 03/28/2004 9:01:15 PM
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gillou
Gunboards Member
France
13 Posts
Posted - 04/15/2004 : 4:45:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
1902 Spandau 3392 a
1915 Dantzig 6410 n
Best regards
Gilles
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 04/15/2004 : 5:39:12 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
On 1902 Spandau we have 2576 c as a high; in 1915 for Danzig we have 1563 w for a high.
Thanks for the help!
Those early Gewehr98’s are quite scarce if still in Imperial trim & matching…
quote:Originally posted by gillou
1902 Spandau 3392 a
1915 Dantzig 6410 n
Best regards
Gilles
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Puska24
Gunboards Member
39 Posts
Posted - 04/16/2004 : 3:04:05 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
1916 Mixmaster Mauser Oberndorf 2934 k ( I think it's a k ), with a # 3019 stamped on the rear of the receiver...Pics were taken with my phone, so they are not so good... I just added a pic of it with my 1917 Enfield and 1915 Mosin M-91... It's taken with the camera phone again, aww...
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beeker77
Gunboards Member
USA
37 Posts
Posted - 04/21/2004 : 7:13:14 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit beeker77's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Gew98, 1916 Spandau, s/n 3483 l (that's an 'el' suffix), barrel bands 35 (lower) and 76 (top)
Gew98, 1918 Oberndorf, s/n 488 l (that's an 'el' suffix), turkish crescent top center of receiver, 5-point star 1/4-inch left of Gew.98 stamp.
"Few experiences in life are so exhilirating as to have been shot at without result." - Winston Churchill
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WaPrüf2
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
935 Posts
Posted - 04/22/2004 : 09:13:53 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
GEW 98s, KAR 98As AND KAR 98AZs IN THe SPRINGFIELD ARMORY COLLECTION
This information previously published by me in KCN. For details of any weapon consult directly with Springfield.
GEW 98
Amberg 1916 SN 3709
Danzig 1900 SN 4157 (converted to Zielgewehr)
DWM 1901 SN 60a (Navy)
Mauser 1906 SN 8540c
Mauser 1913 SN 4230 (w breech cover)
J.P. Sauer 1916 SN 8427c
Spandau 1901 SN 651 (w original rear sight; converted to Zielgewehr)
Spandau 1906 SN SN 2215d
Spandau 1915 SN 7070t
Spandau 1915 SN 9574a (Reichswehr rework)
Sniper, maker obscured by sight moun, SN 6198g
Bavarian sniper, maker obscured by sight mount, SN ?
KAR 98A
Erfurt 1904 SN 6311
KAR 98AZ
Danzig 1909 SN 7215
Danzig 1910 SN 1213
Erfurt 1915 SN 5703a
Erfurt 1916 SN 8811a
Erfurt 1916 SN 7718gg
Erfurt 1916 SN 5762mm
Erfurt 1917 SN 5854
-30-
Edited by - WaPrüf2 on 04/22/2004 1:48:01 PM
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 04/23/2004 : 10:04:39 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Great stuff CB, and I find it especially valuable as I actually did the "hour tour" last November (I asked so many questions & walked like a 90 year old so as to spend more time! Drew it out to an hour & half...).
I tried to see what I could but they wouldn't let hands on examination & the displays were done so serial detail was obscured... didn't get much data while there, but it is surely the best National Park I have ever been to!
Thank you for the details!
quote:Originally posted by WaPrüf2
GEW 98s, KAR 98As AND KAR 98AZs IN THe SPRINGFIELD ARMORY COLLECTION
This information previously published by me in KCN. For details of any weapon consult directly with Springfield.
GEW 98
Amberg 1916 SN 3709
Danzig 1900 SN 4157 (converted to Zielgewehr)
DWM 1901 SN 60a (Navy)
Mauser 1906 SN 8540c
Mauser 1913 SN 4230 (w breech cover)
J.P. Sauer 1916 SN 8427c
Spandau 1901 SN 651 (w original rear sight; converted to Zielgewehr)
Spandau 1906 SN SN 2215d
Spandau 1915 SN 7070t
Spandau 1915 SN 9574a (Reichswehr rework)
Sniper, maker obscured by sight moun, SN 6198g
Bavarian sniper, maker obscured by sight mount, SN ?
KAR 98A
Erfurt 1904 SN 6311
KAR 98AZ
Danzig 1909 SN 7215
Danzig 1910 SN 1213
Erfurt 1915 SN 5703a
Erfurt 1916 SN 8811a
Erfurt 1916 SN 7718gg
Erfurt 1916 SN 5762mm
Erfurt 1917 SN 5854
-30-
Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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maximvikers
Gunboards Premium Member
205 Posts
Posted - 04/25/2004 : 6:11:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Spandau 1907 #4247b
Mauser Oberndorf 1918 #3940L
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Maverick35N
Starting Member
USA
3 Posts
Posted - 04/28/2004 : 8:04:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Here is my small contribution.
G71, Amberg, 1880, 80442
G71/84, Spandau, 1887, 2564
G98, Oberndorf, 1915, 3946m
G98, Oberndorf, 1916, 8372h
Kar98AZ, Amberg, 1911, 8098
Kar98AZ Pix
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WaPrüf2
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
935 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 09:15:52 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
More goodies. Most were reported to the KCN at one point.
GEW 98
Amberg 1916 SN 592n
Amberg 1916 SN 386t
Amberg 1917 SN 5881a
Danzig 1917 SN 7760dd (aka G98b)
Danzig 1917 SN 451cc (sniper)
Danzig 1917 SN 2689hh (aka G98a)
DWM 1899 SN 5706 (Navy)
DWM 1913 SN 2225 (Navy)
DWM 1915 SN 4850w
DWM 1916 SN 4386L
DWM 1917 SN 9754
DWM 1917/1920 SN 3325h
Erfurt 1916 SN 2518/1 (Sterngeweher)
Mauser 1916 SN 5902s
Schllling 1916 SN 6883r
Simson 1917 SN 808a
Spandau 1899 SN 2191
Spandau 1900 SN 4977c
Spandau 1900 SN 7478k (Colonial; reliably reported)
Spandau 1901 SN 7083 (Colonial)
Spandau 1903 SN 1210 (Colonial)
Spandau 1904 SN 1156
Spandau 1915 SN 7698e
Spandau 1916 SN 1690ee
Spandau 1917 SN 2479/2 (Sterngewehr; 2-piece stock)
Spandau/DZ (Sic) 1917/18 (sic) SN 1370c (aka G98b)
Spandau 1917 (H over crown) SN 28740c (barrel dtd 1920) (aka G98a)
GEW 98 RADFAHRER
Spandau 1914 SN 1293
KAR 98A
Erfurt 1904 SN 3794
KAR 98AZ
Danzig 1911 SN 8654
Danzig 1918 SN 7948c
Danzig 1918/1920 (running horse on receiver) SN 1739d
Erfurt 1909 SN 2284
Erfurt 1916 SN 5287L
Erfurt 1916/1920 SN 9394kk (P.w.B.; D.R.G.)
Erfurt 1917 SN 2257k
Erfurt 1918 SN 4076b (2-piece stock)
Erfurt 1918/1920 SN 7003b
Erfurt 1918 SN 9825n (EWB)
Spandau 1908 SN 739a
G98a = Weimar rework w narrow lower band
G98b = Weimar rework w wide lower band
(These old-time collector designations; not official).
Edited by - WaPrüf2 on 04/30/2004 3:32:31 PM
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FixBayonets
Gunboards.Com Silver Star Member
USA
695 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 2:24:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
GEW98 Mauser 1901 Erfurt 8164 c
GEW98 Mauser 1916 DWM 232
GEW98 Mauser 1914 Spandau 8313 f
GEW98 Mauser 1917 Mauser Oberndorf 6230 s
GEW98 Mauser 1918 Mauser Oberndorf 7373 t
KAR98 Mauser 1918 Erfurt 3292 u
KAR98a Mauser 1918 Erfurt 950 k
KAR98a Mauser 1917 Erfurt 9324
"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges."
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 7:32:12 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Cool Amberg!
I have tried to acquire one a couple of times... but so far have only been able to get a barrel off one- kind of disappointing story behind that as well.
At least it is a start!
Post some more pics of the Amberg (if you don't mind?) I have seen only 5-6 and most had significant problems.
Oh, yours is close to the "known" high- 8472
quote:Originally posted by Maverick35N
Here is my small contribution.
G71, Amberg, 1880, 80442
G71/84, Spandau, 1887, 2564
G98, Oberndorf, 1915, 3946m
G98, Oberndorf, 1916, 8372h
Kar98AZ, Amberg, 1911, 8098
Kar98AZ Pix
Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
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Edited by - graf on 04/30/2004 7:39:32 PM
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 7:38:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
CB, thanks again! Can't wait to compare it to what we have... much of what we have is from the KCN (as the base of the database came from Wieringa's work on the KCN).
I have scoured the issues I have, but as I only have 4 years of them, that leaves a significant gap!
quote:Originally posted by WaPrüf2
More goodies. Most were reported to the KCN at one point.
GEW 98
Amberg 1916 SN 592n
Amberg 1916 SN 386t
Amberg 1917 SN 5881a
Danzig 1917 SN 7760dd (aka G98b)
Danzig 1917 SN 451cc (sniper)
Danzig 1917 SN 2689hh (aka G98a)
DWM 1899 SN 5706 (Navy)
DWM 1913 SN 2225 (Navy)
DWM 1915 SN 4850w
DWM 1916 SN 4386L
DWM 1917 SN 9754
DWM 1917/1920 SN 3325h
Erfurt 1916 SN 2518/1 (Sterngeweher)
Mauser 1916 SN 5902s
Schllling 1916 SN 6883r
Simson 1917 SN 808a
Spandau 1899 SN 2191
Spandau 1900 SN 4977c
Spandau 1900 SN 7478k (Colonial; reliably reported)
Spandau 1901 SN 7083 (Colonial)
Spandau 1903 SN 1210 (Colonial)
Spandau 1904 SN 1156
Spandau 1915 SN 7698e
Spandau 1916 SN 1690ee
Spandau 1917 SN 2479/2 (Sterngewehr; 2-piece stock)
Spandau/DZ (Sic) 1917/18 (sic) SN 1370c (aka G98b)
Spandau 1917 (H over crown) SN 28740c (barrel dtd 1920) (aka G98a)
GEW 98 RADFAHRER
Spandau 1914 SN 1293
KAR 98A
Erfurt 1904 SN 3794
KAR 98AZ
Danzig 1911 SN 8654
Danzig 1918 SN 7948c
Danzig 1918/1920 (running horse on receiver) SN 1739d
Erfurt 1909 SN 2284
Erfurt 1916 SN 5287L
Erfurt 1916/1920 SN 9394kk (P.w.B.; D.R.G.)
Erfurt 1917 SN 2257k
Erfurt 1918 SN 4076b (2-piece stock)
Erfurt 1918/1920 SN 7003b
Erfurt 1918 SN 9825n (EWB)
Spandau 1908 SN 739a
G98a = Weimar rework w narrow lower band
G98b = Weimar rework w wide lower band
(These old-time collector designations; not official).
Editor Military Rifle Journal - Eventual website:
http://militaryriflejournal.com/
http://gewehr98.com/
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 04/30/2004 : 8:04:52 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
FB, quite a good post- two new high serials!
1901 Erfurt moved from 6568 c, a decent hop for an early Gewehr98!
1918 MO moved from 1831 p to your t block!
If you can do pics of the serials that would be great- I record all new highs as "reported" but confirmed is always better...
I am unsure how Mark Wieringa formed the base of this database, but as this was done before the forums became so user friendly he probably took the reported same as confirmed?
I have used asterisks to differentiate the reported from the confirmed.
Thanks again, two new highs are encouraging!
quote:Originally posted by FixBayonets
GEW98 Mauser 1901 Erfurt 8164 c
GEW98 Mauser 1916 DWM 232
GEW98 Mauser 1914 Spandau 8313 f
GEW98 Mauser 1917 Mauser Oberndorf 6230 s
GEW98 Mauser 1918 Mauser Oberndorf 7373 t
KAR98 Mauser 1918 Erfurt 3292 u
KAR98a Mauser 1918 Erfurt 950 k
KAR98a Mauser 1917 Erfurt 9324
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rocklock
Gunboards Member
USA
48 Posts
Posted - 05/09/2004 : 8:43:58 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit rocklock's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
GEW 98 Oberndorf 1917 7707
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petersen43
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
238 Posts
Posted - 05/19/2004 : 7:53:35 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Amberg 1916
s/n 8569 n
"What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
-Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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TOVARISCH
Gunboards Member
53 Posts
Posted - 05/20/2004 : 1:43:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
My only Mauser. Just donated to me by my Father.
DWM 1916 GEW 98 serial# 5565
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petersen43
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
238 Posts
Posted - 05/20/2004 : 10:07:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Mauser Oberndorf 1917
s/n 8253n
"What has struck me so far chiefly is the absolute laziness of everybody over here. When do these people work? What do they work at? People here seem to have established an elaborate system of loafing. I don't understand it at all."
-Thomas Edison commenting on the French
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graf
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
1294 Posts
Posted - 05/21/2004 : 9:36:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks for the serials, these wartime production rifles have huge numbers (high suffixes- often double suffixes) so rarely do we get a new high with them- but it is good to see the posts anyway!
Keep them coming!
quote:Originally posted by petersen43
Mauser Oberndorf 1917
s/n 8253n
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Petereye05
Gunboards Member
United Kingdom
87 Posts
Posted - 05/22/2004 : 1:05:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Paul,
I also have a Gew 71 by Amberg and a Gew 71/84 by Spandau - here are the details :
Gew 71 Amberg 1877 s/n 5990 unit mark B.1.R.5.102.
Gew 71/84 Spandau 1887 s/n 2626 unit mark G.F.R.
R.78.
Regards,
Peter.
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cartophilis2
Gunboards Premium Member
USA
130 Posts
Posted - 06/07/2004 : 7:24:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hey i got one Saturday:
Danzig 1916
all matching but bolt-- 8724 over RR
excellent shape-- had to fix broke firing pin
i dont think im gonna keep it though-- i dont collect mausers
CARTO
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keithreid
Gunboards.Com Gold Star Member
USA
2410 Posts
Posted - 06/08/2004 : 3:26:20 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
have 2 for you:
gew98 1915 spandau, K6300 M radom rework
gew98 1918 mauser oberndorf, 8513 t turk marked.
have another that was sporterized back in the 60's, but it's in seattle at the moment and i'm not. i'll post info on it as soon as i can.
COA#104114
looking for the following finn m91's:
tikka with s/n below 130(25 tikka)
44vkt(referenced in lapin's book)
finned chattelerault m91
Keith A. Reid
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graf
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Posted - 06/08/2004 : 6:46:56 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Carto;
Cool right receiver proofs (also good clear pics which is always welcome!) The "crowned RC" is a well known proof representing a previously failed inspection being accepted for service, the script M is interesting & I have seen this before but am unaware of its meaning (if it has one at all? MauserBill perhaps??)
8724 rr would be a new high serial number & I would very much like to view it if you would share it- I always record them as reported but for a confirmed high I like to see the serial (especially for e & r as it is an easy script to confuse on some of the makers! Though Danzig uses an easy to recognize "r" -some don't)
Keith;
Love to see the "t" range Turked MO, as that also would be a high serial (we have a reported 7373 t Turked MO for 1918 but it isn't confirmed by observation... regardless it would be a high for 1918 MO!)
A word on observations v reported. I always welcome serial numbers (reported or observed) & if a high I record them on the database (but with asterisks) - I really like to confirm a serial number if an image is available!
My email is graff714@bellsouth.net if privacy is an issue for you.
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eulitathomas
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Posted - 06/09/2004 : 7:13:42 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hello Graf - Here's my contribution -
1 - Kar 98 Erfurt 1918 # 9962 "B" marked stock
2 - Gew 98 Spandau 1911 # 1496d unit disc = E.M.G.A. 12.45
3 - Gew 98 Amburg 1906 # 9901 unit disc = B. 22 R. 8. 40.
4 - Gew 98 Emil Kerner & Sohn Suhl 8.15 X 46R # 2 under receiver and
beneath barrel.
All guns are matching numbers.
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Mike Augustine
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158 Posts
Posted - 06/27/2004 : 6:45:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I bought a Gew98 DWM over the weekend.
I have some pics to share, if anyone could give me some information or history on this rifle I'd appreciate it very much. I'm especially curious about the right side stamps I assume the letter under the serial is a W? The serial number is 1011.
Thanks in advance for any help learning some more about this rifle.
Matching numbers, with the cleaning rod, no bayonet or sling though.
The Lange sight:
Top stamp:
Right side receiver:
Left side same:
Kind of a crappy picture of the bolt serial stamps:
Looking down the barrel:
I know that doesn't show a heck of a lot, but I thought it might be a nice twist on the usual pictures.
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dg13
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Posted - 06/30/2004 : 8:54:10 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Does anyone have any spare parts for a gew 98? I need a few parts to match up my rifle.
"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"
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The Great Billdildoe
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Apparently you need to read more posts in this thread - regarding parts.
" The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
Winston Churchill.
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2DOGS
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397 Posts
Posted - 07/05/2004 : 9:29:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Only one Mauser in my collection,,,GEW98,,1917 AMBERG,,,ser#468m,,,Marked with 3 different types of crowns over shields,,,Lion with sword and shield,,,buttstock on right side is branded with letters EWB and B5.......SEMPER FI
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hawkracer16
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24 Posts
Posted - 07/08/2004 : 6:25:21 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
hey all. i've got a 1918 amberg, does anyone know if it could have been used in the tail of the First World War???
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Jimbeaux
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187 Posts
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1916 Oberndorf A/N ser# 4336c
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dg13
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1918 AMBERG--TAIL END OF wwi--MOST DEFENITELY!
DG13
"One Nation UNDER GOD"
"IN GOD WE TRUST"
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TP
Moderator Military Mauser Forum
USA
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quote:Originally posted by dg13
1918 AMBERG--TAIL END OF wwi--MOST DEFENITELY!
DG13
Oh, yeah, no doubt about it! And it probably saw use during the post-War period when revolution was breaking out and there was trouble on the borders as well. Nice find.
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graf
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Posted - 07/15/2004 : 11:08:34 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Absolutely, and as it has the post war Bavarian "EWB" it saw some action post war also!
How about some images? Is the receiver blued or is it still in the white? Does the bolt match & if so is it blued? Tabgent or Lange rear sight?
We have confirmed serial ranges for 1917 Amberg into the "x" range- I don't think there is any doubt yours saw action or at least service.
quote:Originally posted by 2DOGS
Only one Mauser in my collection,,,GEW98,,1917 AMBERG,,,ser#468m,,,Marked with 3 different types of crowns over shields,,,Lion with sword and shield,,,buttstock on right side is branded with letters EWB and B5.......SEMPER FI
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jacobtowne
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Posted - 07/21/2004 : 12:54:06 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
DWM 1907 SN 9712-1. Shortened to 98k after WWI. Captured by Soviets in WWII.
JT
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graf
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Posted - 07/22/2004 : 6:00:25 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Interesting, can you do pics?
The serial 9712 1 (is that an L or a 1?) I suspect an L as no DWM stern gewehr is "known" and as it is pre-war that is also a little unusual (only one other pre-war stern gewehr is known by me).
Currently 1907 DWM high serial is 5944 e so either way this would be an interesting rifle to verify!
Thanks
quote:Originally posted by jacobtowne
DWM 1907 SN 9712-1. Shortened to 98k after WWI. Captured by Soviets in WWII.
JT
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Dutchman
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Gew98
Mauser Oberndorf 1917
8113v
Has 4 Turk characters on the bbl shank between the receiver
and rear sight. Stock has bolt take down grommet. Receiver is blued. Mismatched.
Dutchman
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2DOGS
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397 Posts
Posted - 07/25/2004 : 4:16:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote:Originally posted by graf
Absolutely, and as it has the post war Bavarian "EWB" it saw some action post war also!
How about some images? Is the receiver blued or is it still in the white? Does the bolt match & if so is it blued? Tabgent or Lange rear sight?
We have confirmed serial ranges for 1917 Amberg into the "x" range- I don't think there is any doubt yours saw action or at least service.
I will try to post pics of my rifle, all numbers match including bolt, barrel, buttplate, magazine assy., all screws and barrel bands have last 2 digits of serial number on them also,,,,SEMPER FI
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quote:Originally posted by 2DOGS
Only one Mauser in my collection,,,GEW98,,1917 AMBERG,,,ser#468m,,,Marked with 3 different types of crowns over shields,,,Lion with sword and shield,,,buttstock on right side is branded with letters EWB and B5.......SEMPER FI
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graf
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Posted - 07/25/2004 : 9:32:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks for the pics & the new serial (1917 MO are reported well into the "aa" range, & like yours most went to Turkey.)
The EWB is pretty cool; some of the pics look like blued receiver some maybe no? (I suspect probably so...) also no rear sight viewed but probably a tangent?
I like these EWB's, especially all matching ones!
Though that bolt looked suspicious from the image, post some better pics & we should be able to determine if legit German matching...
Not many of these post war Gewehr98M come up matching.
quote:Originally posted by Dutchman
Gew98
Mauser Oberndorf 1917
8113v
Has 4 Turk characters on the bbl shank between the receiver
and rear sight. Stock has bolt take down grommet. Receiver is blued. Mismatched.
Dutchman
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I used to own this G-98.
J.P. Sauer & Sohn Suhl 1917 ser 1514
On the receiver above the Sauer markings is the Radom diamond shape. The markings on the stock
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JPS
Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector
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Posted - 08/09/2004 : 1:14:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Yo Graf & T.P.
Sorry for not getting around to this sooner. Here you go.
1) Danzig 1901, sn - 4**g
2) Danzig 1902, sn - 83**g
3) DWM 1916, sn - 81**g
4) DWM 1916, sn - 85**dd
5) Spandau 1916, sn - 29**c
6) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916, sn 97**b
7) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1917, sn 48**g
8) Mauser Oberndorf 1917, sn - 23**n
9) Mauser Oberndorf 1918, sn - 91**b
Hope this info is of help. If you want photos of any of them, please let me know which ones.
Have a great week.
Warmest regards,
JPS
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The Great Billdildoe
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Sorry for not getting around to this sooner. Here you go.
Warmest regards,
JPS
[/quote]
JPS ; Now you need to do a part list for your needy imperial era configuration gewehrs...hint hint.
" The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
Winston Churchill.
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JPS
Moderator - WWI Arms & Militaria Collector
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4436 Posts
Posted - 08/10/2004 : 8:16:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Yo Bill,
That's why I emailed you and asked for updated lists. I have some time between now and my next business trip to go over my rifles carefully and log what I have and what I might need. I'll be in touch.
Warmest regards,
JPS
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graf
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1294 Posts
Posted - 08/14/2004 : 5:30:14 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks John, unfortunately no new highs off them- I will send my parts list & database v email...
quote:Originally posted by JPS
Yo Graf & T.P.
Sorry for not getting around to this sooner. Here you go.
1) Danzig 1901, sn - 4**g
2) Danzig 1902, sn - 83**g
3) DWM 1916, sn - 81**g
4) DWM 1916, sn - 85**dd
5) Spandau 1916, sn - 29**c
6) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916, sn 97**b
7) Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1917, sn 48**g
8) Mauser Oberndorf 1917, sn - 23**n
9) Mauser Oberndorf 1918, sn - 91**b
Hope this info is of help. If you want photos of any of them, please let me know which ones.
Have a great week.
Warmest regards,
JPS
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fireman
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1907 DWM Berlin 648 d
Paul this is one I observed at the show today.
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graf
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Rich, did you pick it up?
The high for DWM in 1907 "so far" is 5944 e so pretty close!
1907 was a big year production wise for the Gewehr98... strangely enough I have seen more 1907 dated Gewehr98's than pretty much anyother year (pre war)- but from the database that wouldn't seem to hold true as several years with several manufacturers had much high production!
Danzig in 1904 & 05 went very high (1905 to the end of the U block!)
quote:Originally posted by fireman
1907 DWM Berlin 648 d
Paul this is one I observed at the show today.
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bjakimier
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Posted - 08/16/2004 : 4:20:28 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
This is my only GEW.98; posted on this forum for info just today:
Receiver: Top- Crown; over DANZIG; over 1915
Left side- Small eagle mark; over 5499; over cursive "d"
Right side- Three "crown" proof marks.
Barrel: Top- "S" inside a triangle; all inside a circle.
Left side- 5499
Top right side- Four Weimar era firing proof marks.
Perch313
Perch313
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Posted - 08/25/2004 : 10:46:32 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
What do the letters "EWB" stand for? I have owned several mauser rifles, onlt the G98 had the "EWB" on the stock.
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JR115
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Hello:
Here are a couple more:
Kar98a - Spandau 1909 #454 (1920 Reissue)
Gew98 - Mauser Oberndorf 1917 #4396
Best regards,
WL
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graf
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Posted - 09/06/2004 : 4:31:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Oh, you're teasing!!
Would love to see the 1909 Spandau Kar98a! These Spandau 98a's are very rare & desirable, never actually seen one- they are that rare!
The high (and only one reported in 1909) 1909 Spandau is #990. Spandau only made the Kar98a in 1908; 1909 & 1910- and never in significant numbers.
quote:Originally posted by JR115
Hello:
Here are a couple more:
Kar98a - Spandau 1909 #454 (1920 Reissue)
Gew98 - Mauser Oberndorf 1917 #4396
Best regards,
WL
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hoppes
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Posted - 09/08/2004 : 02:07:24 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
My only GEW 98. Bought about 8-10 years ago Oberndorf 1917
Barrel marked: Left side 8499 g
Top S
Top just at receiver 7,91
Receiver marked Left side Imperial mark y8499 8 Gew 98
g
Right side Three Imperial marks CAI(?)8mm-Turkey
Imperial bolt with number removed
Trigger group 2 Imperial marks 3644
May have gone to Turkey but has no other Turkish marks
Stock has Imperial markings on right buttstock, reverse S on comb.
Keep up the good work!! Interesting! Hoppes
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The Phantom
Gunboards Member
Italy
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Posted - 09/08/2004 : 02:27:58 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Gew. 98. - Erfurt 1916 - 4909
Special marks:
- Einwohnerwehr Bayern (EWB) mark can be partially seen on the stock.
- Unknown (to me) mark (Bl. 375) on the right side of the barrel.
Best regards.
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tplan
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834 Posts
Posted - 09/13/2004 : 1:28:54 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Gew 98 DWM 1915 9770 k
Simson & Co 1917 8525 e
Kar 98a Erfurt 1916 3534 f
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eulitathomas
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110 Posts
Posted - 09/21/2004 : 7:19:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hello Graf, Here is another Gew 98 =
Amberg 1917 #6898a
S/42K on sight base as well as eagles.
EWB on stock.
All match except the bolt.
Tom
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graf
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Posted - 09/22/2004 : 4:11:41 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks guys!
No new highs but all still valuable! As soon as I get done with the move I will try & form some sort of medium for this information.
quote:Originally posted by eulitathomas
Hello Graf, Here is another Gew 98 =
Amberg 1917 #6898a
S/42K on sight base as well as eagles.
EWB on stock.
All match except the bolt.
Tom
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David Murvihill
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Posted - 09/27/2004 : 9:03:57 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Kar 98 Erfurt 1916 #7486 with what looks like "hh" underneath on the receiver, and "aa" on the bolt. I was told it was a bring-back.
Gew 98 Oberndorf 1917 #2155 with a pitted stamping in front of it.
If no one minds I have a few questions about this rifle:
1. Under the # on the receiver is the lower half of the import stamp. It appears to be some field in NJ?
2. There is an "S" stamped behind and to the right of the rear sight. What is that?
3. On the right side of the barrel behind the rear sight is the top half of a stamping which appears to end in "Turkey". What is the whole thing?
4. Behind the stud on the bolt-side of the butt there is a red stripe painted or taped on (about60% flaked off, but the shadow remains) 3/8" wide and 1 1/2" long. Has anyone else seen this?
You didn't ask about "foreign" models, so I won't list those.
Thank you,
Dave Murvihill
Collector of Uncle Sam's Fantastic Toys.
(and Uncle Joe's, and Uncle Willie's, and Aunt Lizzie's, and...)
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tplan
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Gew. 98 Spandau 1917 # 6283. Bayard receiver, assembled as K-98k with what I am told is an East German barrel. Only one fractur proof on the right side, no imperial firing proof, what looks like a Weimar firing proof. I wonder when this receiver was first assembled into a complete rifle, and even when it was given a serial #?
John
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Deputy Dan
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Posted - 09/29/2004 : 6:46:43 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Almost forgot about these: (1) Gew98 DWM 1915 s/n 5488u (2) Gew98 Danzig 1916 s/n 9356y or possibly a z Tough to tell
Edited by - Deputy Dan on 10/01/2004 6:13:01 PM
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graf
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Posted - 10/09/2004 : 1:47:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
David, the "S" is a mark noting it uses S cartridge/ammunition- it is a mark you will find on almost all Gewehr98's...; the "NJ/Turkey" amrkings are the import markings that were put on the rifle when imported into the US, it was imported from Turkey (most 1917 & 1918 MO's saw service in Turkey); not sure on the red stripe? (perhaps an image? Probably something it picked up while in Turk service).
John;
Love to see detailed images of your 17 Spandau, though it won't help on the database, it sure sounds interesting...
Thanks for the serials!
quote:Originally posted by tplan
Gew. 98 Spandau 1917 # 6283. Bayard receiver, assembled as K-98k with what I am told is an East German barrel. Only one fractur proof on the right side, no imperial firing proof, what looks like a Weimar firing proof. I wonder when this receiver was first assembled into a complete rifle, and even when it was given a serial #?
John
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mupples
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Posted - 10/10/2004 : 12:32:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Just one for me, and sadly it's been sporterized:
Schilling 1917 #4968a
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David Murvihill
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1405 Posts
Posted - 10/12/2004 : 07:47:35 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
quote: David, the "S" is a mark noting it uses S cartridge/ammunition- it is a mark you will find on almost all Gewehr98's...; the "NJ/Turkey" amrkings are the import markings that were put on the rifle when imported into the US, it was imported from Turkey (most 1917 & 1918 MO's saw service in Turkey); not sure on the red stripe? (perhaps an image? Probably something it picked up while in Turk service).
I think this worked: (My first picture). The shadow of the worn off part of the stripe is clearly visible when the full image is viewed.
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Thank you,
Dave M.
Collector of Uncle Sam's Fantastic Toys.
(and Uncle Joe's, and Uncle Willie's, and Aunt Lizzie's, and...)
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graf
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Posted - 10/12/2004 : 10:35:17 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Got me... I have never seen similiar on a straight up Imperial rifle, so imo probably from it's Turk past or after?
You might try the Turk forum?
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avery53
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62 Posts
Posted - 10/18/2004 : 1:28:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I have a Spandau 1914 serial# 3158. The suffix looks like a 4, possibly a g, not sure. Crown on the receiver.
Every part on this rifle matches, even the screw #'s on the trigger guard are numbered correctly.
The stock has FR over T and a G over T.
Lots of other stamps and markings I have no idea what they mean.
This is my first GEW 98, so I have no knowledge yet.
Upper hand guard is missing, but other than that it's a neat old rifle. Not sporterized.
If there is other info needed, just ask and I will look.
avery53
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graf
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1294 Posts
Posted - 10/24/2004 : 2:18:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Imaged is a "g" on a Spandau... is it like this?
We have 14 Spandau up to "j" so if it might be beyond that pictures would be great!
The random markings/proofs won't tell you much; unlike the 98k the frakturs don't tell a story. Can't track makers with them or date a rifle from them usually, sometimes if you have a good database you can find similarities between makers/years off the right receiver proofs- but nothing concrete!
Sounds like you have a keeper!
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quote:Originally posted by avery53
I have a Spandau 1914 serial# 3158. The suffix looks like a 4, possibly a g, not sure. Crown on the receiver.
Every part on this rifle matches, even the screw #'s on the trigger guard are numbered correctly.
The stock has FR over T and a G over T.
Lots of other stamps and markings I have no idea what they mean.
This is my first GEW 98, so I have no knowledge yet.
Upper hand guard is missing, but other than that it's a neat old rifle. Not sporterized.
If there is other info needed, just ask and I will look.
avery53
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DaSwede
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Posted - 10/27/2004 : 3:24:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
i picked up an odd one this weekend. the receiver is marked spandau 1899/16 and is marked on top of the receiver with the * above the crown. the gun is serial numbered 18xx over 1. i believe that this is not the original serial number of the gun, there are marks on the receiver that appear to obliterate another number. the barrel is marked with a large weimar eagle under the wood line. the receiver is marked with a WaA4 undr the wood line. the rear sight is s/42G marked. the stock appears to be converted from a Gew98 and is EWB marked and inletted to take a 98k bandspring. overall the gun is 98k length. i thought that stern gewehres were produced during ww1? were the stars also used on rebuild rifles? i can't even begin to guess how many times this one has been through the rebuild process.
thanks
rick
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The Great Billdildoe
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Posted - 10/27/2004 : 5:53:22 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
The original manufacture date was 1899. It was either rejected when initially made and sotred , then brought out and assembeld as a sterne gewehr in 1916 , or it received a through rebuild in 1916 and did not meet uniform specs and had to be marked as a sterne gewehr.
Sometime post 1920 it was modified with the tangent sight , but before that happened it was in the hands of the EWB.
I would be interested to see pics of barrel, band spring and front sight arrangements to see if it is a possible actual german conversion.If it was knocked down to 98k length the bolt should be turned down and stock inletted for it. If not the likelihood of this being a german conversion to 98k length is rather remote.
" The vice of capitolsim is it's unequal sharing of blessings ;
The Virtue of socialism is it's equal sharing of misery "
Winston Churchill.
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graf
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Posted - 10/28/2004 : 8:19:07 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Would be really cool if it is a 98k conversion!
Bill, how many "legit" Gewehr98 to 98k conversions have you observed over the years?
Rick, sounds like an interesting rifle, awhile back a friend picked up a 1907/20 Spandau stern gewehr (another salvaged receiver brought back during the war & re-issued post war), there is thread somewhere here on it.
Love to see pics of it- even more so Bill's views on it! (not real easy to get Mauserbills attention these days!)
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fireman
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Posted - 11/06/2004 : 3:01:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
2 more observed,
1905 Erfurt 9296 a
1916 Spandau, not marked as a stern gewehr 8105 e or l.
If some one can post an pic of a gothic e or l I ca confirm the letter block.
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graf
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Posted - 11/06/2004 : 6:16:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Rich; that 05 Erfurt is a new high, bumped it by 3600! (from 5673 a)...
No "l" suffix but I have an "ee" range for Spandau I can upload on file. The high for 16 Spandau is up there! (52xx mm)
Pics of the 05 Erfurt would be cool, or if not possible, how about details? Reworked/rearsenaled, unusual markings? Matching?
quote:Originally posted by fireman
2 more observed,
1905 Erfurt 9296 a
1916 Spandau, not marked as a stern gewehr 8105 e or l.
If some one can post an pic of a gothic e or l I ca confirm the letter block.
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Esquire
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Posted - 11/06/2004 : 8:54:16 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Erfurt 1918 kar 98, s/n 1546. There is also stincled on the stock with white paint the number 339.
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fireman
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Posted - 11/06/2004 : 10:03:45 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Paul, Glad to be of help. I am sorry no pics. I did not buy either one as both were significantly altered.
When I saw the first one I thought "bubba really screwed this up" An hour later I saw it again at a diffrent table, at least I thought it was the same one. Funny thing, diffrent dealers, table spread far apart and 2 identical "bubba" jobs.
Both were k98 length with a k98 type front sight, S/42 marked tangent sights, black enamal finish, imperial stocks cut down between the rear sight and rear band. The hand gaurd was a small(about 3") with 3 lines on the top of it. One bolt was Imperial German and one had some marks I did not recognize, maybe Turkish? Neither was inletted for the turned down bolt. Maybe some sort of Turkish civil issue?
Funny thing one guy wanted about $90 the other wanted $279!!
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archie360
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Posted - 11/19/2004 : 3:24:48 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Two more for ya...
1916 DWM #1290gg
1916 Oberndorf #7607n (turk)
The smoke from that corrosive ammo you shoot will rust my rifle. Please move a few benches away from me.
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JR115
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Posted - 11/20/2004 : 3:21:53 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graf:
Sorry for the delay. No teasing, here she is!
Best regards,
WL
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quote:Originally posted by graf
Oh, you're teasing!!
Would love to see the 1909 Spandau Kar98a! These Spandau 98a's are very rare & desirable, never actually seen one- they are that rare!
The high (and only one reported in 1909) 1909 Spandau is #990. Spandau only made the Kar98a in 1908; 1909 & 1910- and never in significant numbers.
quote:Originally posted by JR115
Hello:
Here are a couple more:
Kar98a - Spandau 1909 #454 (1920 Reissue)
Gew98 - Mauser Oberndorf 1917 #4396
Best regards,
WL
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graf
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Posted - 11/20/2004 : 9:11:33 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
That is awesome!
This is the first one I have seen images of, heard of them before of course but first rate to see one finally. Too bad Weimar’d as that would hurt a bit $$ wise if you ever unloaded it… Don’t get me wrong, I do like these Weimar rework rifles; especially as on these rare variations/makers they are the only way I can afford them!
I recently had the good fortune to buy a 1909/1920 Amberg (the current high actually) from MauserBill and in reality the only reason it panned out was because it was Weimar’d!
If straight up Imperial Bill would never have cut it loose & if he did for some reason I would still have been way short $$ wise to have a shot at it.
Thanks for the great images of it!
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NavyGunner
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Posted - 11/28/2004 : 2:59:27 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graf, here's a few more for you.
Mauser Oberndorf / 1916 SN 681h FB triangle Radom marked, converted to Kar98k in East Germany, dated 48 on receiver lug. I want to note that there is a K stamped between the Imperial acceptance mark and the serial number, is this a conversion designation?
Mauser Oberndorf / 1916 SN 7906m standard Gew98 with blued receiver.
DWM / 1917 SN 8320c standard Gew98 with bright receiver and Beech stock and handguard.
NavyGunner
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geejams
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Posted - 12/03/2004 : 9:07:01 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Newbie here, Hello everyone I went hunting early this week with a friend and guess what. noticed he has a GEW 98 sporter30-06. Me a 30-06 rem. BUT I fell in love with his rifle to the point of making a trade.Info on gun is as follow. sn: 5950, 3 crowns over 3 letters U,V,G? A 9-68 OR 8-68 ON LEFT OF RECIVER. FINALY A # 60u behind safety bolt action. Any info on this gun. please reply thanks !
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graf
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Posted - 12/03/2004 : 10:46:51 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks NG!
Gee, hard to decipher the information you provided... across the top of the receiver there should be a maker & a date of manufacture, you seem to have made note of the right receiver assembly proofs, besides that I can't quite figure out the details.
quote:Originally posted by geejams
Newbie here, Hello everyone I went hunting early this week with a friend and guess what. noticed he has a GEW 98 sporter30-06. Me a 30-06 rem. BUT I fell in love with his rifle to the point of making a trade.Info on gun is as follow. sn: 5950, 3 crowns over 3 letters U,V,G? A 9-68 OR 8-68 ON LEFT OF RECIVER. FINALY A # 60u behind safety bolt action. Any info on this gun. please reply thanks !
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jwh2
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Posted - 12/06/2004 : 11:42:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
geejams,
It appears you have only part of a GEW98 that has been "sporterized" and rebarreled. The only thing that can be gleaned from the imformation you provided is the action is a GEW98 and it has the number 5950 stamped on it. The different number on the bolt part means it came from a different rifle.
There were almost a dozen makers of GEW98 rifles in Germany. Each of on them used the same serial numbering system. Starting at 01 through 9999, then 01a through 9999a, then 01b through 9999b, etc., through the alphabet. They repeated it each year.
The arsenal that built the rifle would have stamped their name and the year of manufacture on top of the receiver ring. For instance, "DANZIG, 1909" or Amberg, 1907", etc. And any one of them could have had a serial number of 5950 for any number of years, from 1898 through 1918.
So, look on top of the receiver ring of your rifle and if someone hasn't ground it off, you should find the maker of your receiver and the year it was made.
Hope this helps.
Paul, I hope I didn't mess up you research too much with this.
Joe
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NavyGunner
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Posted - 12/09/2004 : 12:43:09 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks NG!
Gee, hard to decipher the information you provided... across the top of the receiver there should be a maker & a date of manufacture, you seem to have made note of the right receiver assembly proofs, besides that I can't quite figure out the details.
Graf,
Mauser Oberndorf 1916 S/N 681h ( Left side of the receiver ring is marked with Imperial acceptance mark then K681/h ). The K is a different font style so was it was added later as a conversion designation by the East Germans or added when the rifle went in polish service, any ideas? The FB in triangle Radom mark is on top of the receiver just above the Mauser name. It was converted into a Kar98k in East Germany, dated 48 on receiver lug. I previously posted pics of the rifle, but if you'd like I can take some more for you?
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NavyGunner
I'm a political refugee from the Peoples Republic of Massachusetts
Edited by - NavyGunner on 12/14/2004 6:59:28 PM
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graf
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Posted - 12/19/2004 : 02:08:28 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks Joe- no harm done- getting to be a long thread!
NG, I don't know squat about most post war alterations, can't see the markings on the pics you posted either?
Wish I could help you here but I am pretty much sticking to "original" serial numbers & Imperial/Weimar German done variations for this project...
There are just too many post war altered variations out there for me to keep an interest in following them!
I only keep records of them if the receiver markings are still Imperial German applied.
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Burrfoot
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Posted - 12/21/2004 : 11:00:04 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hello,
One gew98 here.
Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916 5204a
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graf
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Posted - 12/22/2004 : 05:35:23 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks, yours is the lowest observed serial number for that mfg/date- the highest in well into the "h" range (only one maker that year produced less- Simson)
quote:Originally posted by Burrfoot
Hello,
One gew98 here.
Waffenwerke Oberspree Kornbusch &Co 1916 5204a
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NavyGunner
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Posted - 12/22/2004 : 6:53:00 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graf,
Thanks for looking at the Gew 98 - Kar98k. I found one with the same markings in Backbone of the Whermacht.
I posted pics of 2 Gewehr 1898 Modified that I recently picked up.
One is a Zn marked Spandau 1917/26 double date, s/n 2189. It also has the Siemens & Halske sub contract mark on the bottom of the receiver.
The other has just 1920 and the proof and acceptance marks on the receiver ring. It doesn't appear to have been ground to remove the crown and arsenal name. The s/n is 2043a. Have you seen any others like that?
NavyGunner
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graf
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Posted - 12/22/2004 : 9:12:13 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
NG;
I have been on the road allot lately & initially missed your posts, but I eventually saw the threads.
I couldn't add to what was posted by others- except that Siemens & Halske as well as Bayard did make some receivers for Spandau during the war. (apparently only Spandau as I have only seen these logos on Spandau receivers to date- as I recall 1917 mostly)
It had been discussed before a while back...
Regarding the Zn marking Wapruf2 knows as much as anyone & had a thread going if I recall clearly? Not sure where that lead?
I have only seen a very few of these- all similarly marked Zn or DZ & marked with the rebuild date (so far I have only seen 1924 & 1926 dated- unfortunately when I started my database, I didn’t record the markings, or even additional dates in the folder title so for me to search for specific marking such as DZ or Zn I have to view each folder, so I could have further examples but not be aware of it)
Regarding the unmarked variation no I have not seen any more of these (just yours & the other one recently displayed on one of the boards), probably a salvage of some sort, the German’s were fond of using what was on hand in an emergency.
Did that EWB stock match? What matched on that rifle?
I suggest you let Peter Kuck have a look at it as you guys live so close, he is very knowledgeable- plus if you buy him lunch he may let you in his bunker for a viewing! (been there twice & worth the trip alone!)
quote:Originally posted by NavyGunner
Graf,
Thanks for looking at the Gew 98 - Kar98k. I found one with the same markings in Backbone of the Whermacht.
I posted pics of 2 Gewehr 1898 Modified that I recently picked up.
One is a Zn marked Spandau 1917/26 double date, s/n 2189. It also has the Siemens & Halske sub contract mark on the bottom of the receiver.
The other has just 1920 and the proof and acceptance marks on the receiver ring. It doesn't appear to have been ground to remove the crown and arsenal name. The s/n is 2043a. Have you seen any others like that?
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nucchem
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Posted - 01/09/2005 : 8:21:49 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
graf, I have a gewehr 98 with the following on it.
DEUTCHEWAFFEN-UND
MUNUTIONS FABEIKEN
BERLIN
1917
Where will I find the serial number. I am new to this. The weapon I have was given to me by my grandfather who servered in WWI. Have have just about finished the restoration. Next is to test fire it. What other information can I provide you.
Nucchem
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peterkuck
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Posted - 01/09/2005 : 10:11:50 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit peterkuck's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graf
I am familiar with both of these rifles
"Thanks for looking at the Gew 98 - Kar98k. I found one with the same markings in Backbone of the Whermacht.
I posted pics of 2 Gewehr 1898 Modified that I recently picked up.
"One is a Zn marked Spandau 1917/26 double date, s/n 2189. It also has the Siemens & Halske sub contract mark on the bottom of the receiver.
The other has just 1920 and the proof and acceptance marks on the receiver ring. It doesn't appear to have been ground to remove the crown and arsenal name. The s/n is 2043a. Have you seen any others like that?"
I know how had owned them - They are mismatched but very interesting as was the 1933 standad modell that he acquired at the same time. He did get them for a good price.
regards
peter
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graf
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Posted - 01/10/2005 : 12:47:45 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Nucchem; the picture I have attached shows the serial number off a DWM I own (8899 e) yours should be similarly marked (the serial is on the left side of the receiver.)
Information desired is the serial number & mfg/date primarily, however details of anything unusual is also of interest (any special markings, alterations, evidence of rebuild etc...)
I want to compile a database as comprehensive as possible.
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quote:Originally posted by nucchem
graf, I have a gewehr 98 with the following on it.
DEUTCHEWAFFEN-UND
MUNUTIONS FABEIKEN
BERLIN
1917
Where will I find the serial number. I am new to this. The weapon I have was given to me by my grandfather who servered in WWI. Have have just about finished the restoration. Next is to test fire it. What other information can I provide you.
Nucchem
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dcj28
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Posted - 01/20/2005 : 8:04:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
I have a Spandau 1913, Ser 3434 d. Being new to all of this and to Mauser, can someone offer me the name of the best book for identifying all of these markings? I have some catch up to do.
Also on the barrel directly in front of the receiver ring is the marking 7.91. I was under the impression that this was the caliber, yet no one talks about 7.91, what have I got here? Why does it not have 7.92 stamped on it?
Thanks Dave
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graf
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Posted - 01/22/2005 : 12:30:22 AM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Dave, if you could image that rifle I would like to see it as that would be a new high for 1913 Spandau- currently its 7984 c- so a good jump!
The bore measurement is for an armorer to measure wear & can be +/- .02 mm (I have seen 7.90 through 7.93).
Probably the best book in print is John Walters (dated but still as accurate as any in print) "The German Rifle" or his "Central Powers Small Arms of World War One" which essentially just reprints his rifle section.
Olson’s "Mauser Bolt Rifles" is also good but covers too much ground to be very useful. If money is no object buy Ball book on Military Mauser Rifles & Gotz's on German rifles too...
Truly the best way to catch up is to review past threads here & ask questions as there is far more information on this site than anywhere in a book- unfortunately!
quote:Originally posted by dcj28
I have a Spandau 1913, Ser 3434 d. Being new to all of this and to Mauser, can someone offer me the name of the best book for identifying all of these markings? I have some catch up to do.
Also on the barrel directly in front of the receiver ring is the marking 7.91. I was under the impression that this was the caliber, yet no one talks about 7.91, what have I got here? Why does it not have 7.92 stamped on it?
Thanks Dave
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type99
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Posted - 01/23/2005 : 07:44:32 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Hello...
I have a Danzig 1917. All matching parts. Battle scarred (even has shrapnel in stock). Stock broken through the wrist with a stout field-type repair which does not affect shooting. Serial number is 2740 with what appears to be small script letter "s". But not sure on the suffix.
Marked large "B" on buttstock, as well as a large "G". Does anyone know what the "G" might signify.
I'll try to post pictures of receiver, but right now I am having a hard time figuring out how to insert image files.
Gary
Gary
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type99
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graf
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Posted - 01/23/2005 : 2:50:34 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Thanks for the excellent pic to go with your data, yes I believe that is an "s" (interestingly enough Danzig on some pre-war Gewehr98's used the standard "s" rather than this incursive "s"- hard to tell when they changed though.)
Also interesting is we have a rifle only 1040 rifles off from yours in the database, very close when dealing with such large numbers made!
Regarding the butt markings, others covered your "B" marking for beech, I didn't see a "G" marking on the rifle, but I am assuming one of the right buttstock proofs?
There is usually a cypher/crowned FW & a couple inspection stamps there if your stock is "original" to the rifle (they vary some, though a crowned M is often seen for Danzig- not always) I have never read where someone has attributed a special meaning to these markings, other than inspection stamps.
If you have a "G" elsewhere than the right butt, image it & we will see if we can track it down.
quote:Originally posted by type99
Hello...
I have a Danzig 1917. All matching parts. Battle scarred (even has shrapnel in stock). Stock broken through the wrist with a stout field-type repair which does not affect shooting. Serial number is 2740 with what appears to be small script letter "s". But not sure on the suffix.
Marked large "B" on buttstock, as well as a large "G". Does anyone know what the "G" might signify.
I'll try to post pictures of receiver, but right now I am having a hard time figuring out how to insert image files.
Gary
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Peter in CA
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Posted - 01/30/2005 : 3:10:47 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Here is my one and only (so far);
Mauser 1917, 3335 m
Peter
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graf
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Posted - 01/30/2005 : 5:50:11 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Peter; give us some details... is it Turked? If matching what kind of stock does it have? We have a couple maple stocks observed in 1917 MO production.
Thanks for the serial!
quote:Originally posted by Peter in CA
Here is my one and only (so far);
Mauser 1917, 3335 m
Peter
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DMinFla
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Posted - 01/30/2005 : 6:23:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Here is my one and only GEW 98 rifle info.DMinFla
1917 C.G.Haenel Suhl ser# 6343
Go here to enter your info for the
Survey on the MAS 1944,49 and 49/56 rifles
http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=95237
The Adventure Team 1970-1976
Edited by - DMinFla on 01/30/2005 6:27:37 PM
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graf
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Posted - 01/30/2005 : 10:02:40 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Does it have a suffix? (letter below the serial?)
Thanks!
quote:Originally posted by DMinFla
Here is my one and only GEW 98 rifle info.DMinFla
1917 C.G.Haenel Suhl ser# 6343
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dcj28
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Posted - 01/31/2005 : 10:25:00 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
Graf your DWM (8899 e)that you posted with a pic has a stamp on the left. What does that stamp mean? I have looked in a few books and have not found it yet. My Spandau 1913 has it as well.
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quote:Originally posted by nucchem
graf, I have a gewehr 98 with the following on it.
DEUTCHEWAFFEN-UND
MUNUTIONS FABEIKEN
BERLIN
1917
Where will I find the serial number. I am new to this. The weapon I have was given to me by my grandfather who servered in WWI. Have have just about finished the restoration. Next is to test fire it. What other information can I provide you.
Nucchem
[/quote]
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Peter in CA
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Posted - 01/31/2005 : 11:06:59 AM Show Profile Email Poster Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
graf,
The Mauser 1917 is definately Turked. The barrel has the Turkish numbers on it that are different numbers than the receiver serial number. The rifle is a total mismatch. Bolt body is not numbered, but various parts of the bolt are numbered 18530.
The stock has an Imperial stamp on it, but it is hard to make out. The wood is something like walnut, but it is quite light, weight wise. I got a Czech vz98 at the same time that has a beech stock and the beech stock is quite a bit heavier than the Mauser stock.
It is a Navy Arms import, marked "N.A. Ridgefield", then "CAL 8MM TURKEY" in small letters on the receiver.
Peter
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graf
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Posted - 01/31/2005 : 12:56:19 PM Show Profile Email Poster Visit graf's Homepage Edit Reply Reply with Quote View user's IP address Delete Reply
It's the fire proof or power proof as some books call it, nearly all Gewehr98's will have it (don't know why some don't, but seen a couple like the 1902 DWM I have, perhaps Bill can chime in on that?) it represents the rifle passed a test firing with an overpowered cartridge.