Berthier Carabine, Mousqueton et Fusil Histoire
1887 - The Comité de L'Artillerie (Committee of the Artillery), which was later changed to the names of Section Technique de l'Artillerie (Technical Section of the Artillery) in 1910 and Section Technique de l'Armée (Technical Section of the Army) in 1946, headed by Général Gallifet decided to experiment in making a carbine version of the Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1886 'Lebel' (Rifle of Infantry Model 1886 'Lebel') with the following requirements: It had to use the same cartridge already in service, Cartouche à Balle Ordinaire Modèle 1886, the magazine capacity had to equal or better 5 rounds and the final weight of the weapon shall not be over 3,6 kg (7.93 pounds). Under the direction of the L'Ecole Normale de Tir (E.N.T.) (The School of Normal Shooting) a prototype carbine which was to be called the Carabine de Essai Modèle 1887 (Model 1887 Test Carbine) was built. This carbine was basically was a shortened rifle with a 6 round capacity with a shortened butt stock, forearm and barrel. It also had a slightly modified rear sight, which was only graduated to 1800 meters, a small straight ball-tipped stacking hook was added to the upper barrel band, a rotating swivel mounted on the underside of the stock and a concentric ring mounted on the left side of the lower barrel band. The experiment did not meet expectations of the Comité de L'Artillerie due to a number of reasons with the main ones being, it was unable to meet the weight factor as well as the magazine tube system did not work properly unless it under 4 rounds. The project was finally dropped on 28th of February 1890 but 45 years later it was revived again with successful results resulting in the Mousqueton de Artillerie et Cavalerie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 Raccourci 1935 (Musketoons of Artillery and Cavalry Model 1886 Modified 1893 Shortened 1935). Only two of these prototypes are known to exist, one being located at the Musée de la Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne (MAS) in France and the other in a unnamed collection in the USA.
André Virgile Paul Marie Berthier proposed to modify the existing Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1886 'Lebel' with its massive solid receiver, two piece stock and tubular magazine system into a system based on the en-bloc packet/charger system patented by the Austro-Hungarian weapon designer Ferdinand Mannlicher to the Comité de L'Artillerie on June 10th. He was ignored, discouraged and rejected by the various commissions/committees from designing a new firearm system but in the end finally won his case to build a weapon for trials the next year.
1888 - Under the direction of Monsieur Berthier, L'Atelier de Puteaux (APX) helped build a number of prototype weapons called the Lee-Mannlicher-Berthier or what now is called Berthier Boitier No.1 et No.1bis, which were to be tested at Mont Valérien in December of that year. A number of small problems were found with the en-bloc packet/chargers used during this testing, but in the end the weapon proved itself successful enough against the Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 "Lebel", firing 26 rounds in 1 minute 10 seconds compared to the Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 "Lebel" 21 rounds in 1 minute 34 seconds, which had impressed the various commissions/committees to proceed the next year with more testing. They recommended to him to develop two different carbine models, one for the cavalerie (cavalry) and another for the artillerie (artillery).
1889 - Monsieur Berthier went on to develop the two different Berthier Boitier prototypes recommended by the commissions/committees, the Mousqueton d'Artillerie Essai No.2 et No.2bis and Carabine d'Cavalarie Essai No.3 et No.3bis. Both of these were 1005mm (39.5 inch) in overall length, had bent bolt handles and similar modified rear sights. No.2 featured a bolt handle which was positioned on the rear portion of the bolt and the upper barrel band was modified to use the standard bayonet in service the Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1886. No.2bis was modified to have the locking lugs on the bolt head to be positioned “vertical”, 90 degrees, instead of the traditional manner of being “horizontal” which would help to eliminate the jams when chambering the cartridge from the en-bloc packet/charger. No.3 had its bolt handle positioned near the front of the bolt, had a protruding metal magazine, and had no provisions to mount a bayonet. No.3bis also had the same type arrangement for the locking lugs as No.2bis. Testing continued throughout the rest of the year at Mont Valérien.
1890 - On the 19th of January the situation changed dramatically as France’s long time arc-enemy, Germany, adopted the Karabiner Modell 1888 with its fast loading en-bloc packet/charger system for its mounted troops and the French military quickly realized that they needed to get a new smokeless powder carbine for use by their various mounted units to counter this new German threat. On February 28th it was decided by the E.N.T. to drop the Carabine d'Essai Modèle 1887 and go with the Mousqueton d'Artillerie Essai No.2bis carbine for adoption. It was recommended to Monsieur Berthier to go from a 4 round en-bloc packet/charger to a 3 round en-bloc packet/charger and completely abandon the two piece stock for a simple one-piece type that had been a tradition for French regulation carbines. After a series of modifications during the first few weeks of March and by the 14th, the firearm was transformed into what was to become the Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 (Carbine of Cavalry Model 1890) and was ready to under go trials.
The Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 (Carbine of Cavalry Model 1890) was officially adopted as per a Ministerial Decision (Décision Ministérielle) put out by the Ministry of War (Ministre de La Guerre) dated the 10th of December of 1890, which was latter to be called as the Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 Premier (1ère) Type (Carbine of Cavalry Model 1890 First (1st) Type) by the French military to distinguish between the two different types of the same model carbine.
These utilized a one piece stock which was stocked to within 44,45 mm (1.750 inch) of the muzzle, had an overall length of 945 mm (37.21 inch) with a 453 mm (17.83 inch) barrel and weighing 3000 grams (6.61 pounds). There was a 482 mm (19 inch) clearing rod which was placed in a channel down the left side of the stock which served a limited purpose. The rod was not designed to be used for cleaning or maintenance but to expel a stuck cartridge in the chamber, as well for stacking arms together. The firearm lacked any form of a handguard. It featured two barrel bands, an upper and lower, of which the upper was 17,5 mm (.688 inch) long and did not have any form of a stacking rod / hook as seen on later type upper barrel bands. The lower band had a concentric ring mounted on the left side of it which was used to secure the sling too. The sling configuration is unique in that a rotating swivel mounted on the underside of the stock works in combination with the concentric ring mounted on the lower barrel band allowing for it to easily be slung over the back of the cavalryman.
It was found that the sling due to its rotating type swivel located at the bottom of the stock and concentric ring mounted on the left side of the lower barrel band of the firearm was not suited for carrying while mounted as it tore into the uniform and the shoulders of the trooper, therefore it was decided by a Ministerial Decree on the 30th of May 1894 to modify it to carry it in a better position while on the back of the cavalry trooper. The rotating sling swivel mounted on the underside of the stock was removed, filled in with a wood patch and replaced with a 6 cm (2.36 inch) steel sling bar placed over an inletted notch in the left side of the stock. All the newly manufactured models of this carbine made after this date were to utilize this new pattern of stock. The concentric ring lower barrel band was replaced with one that had a straight type retention bar on it.
This new modification changed the designation of the carbine to be called as the Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 Deuxième (2ème) Type (Carbine of Cavalry Model 1890 Second (2nd) Type) which was adopted for service on the 25th of March 1895. As some of these carbines had not been completely modified to the new system, in 1909 another Ministerial Decree was re-written to modify any of the remaining 1st Type models that had not been modified to this new system.
These carbines were originally only issued to the Metropolitan French Light Cavalry Regiments (Régiments de Cavalerie Légère Française) which was composed of (16) Regiments of Dragoons (Régiments de Dragons), (33) Regiments of Hussars (Régiments de Hussards), (24) Regiments of Light Cavalry of Horse (Régiments de Chasseurs à Cheval) and starting in 1905 they were also to be issued to the Military Supply Transport Squadrons (Escadrons du Train des Équipages Militaires).
These carbines were not originally designed to accept a bayonet, since all of the French mounted regiments were issued lances, sabers or swords as their primary arms, however a Ministerial Decree dated the 15th of July 1915 was put out to modify 135,000 Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890's to the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 (Musketoon of Artillery Model 1892) configuration so that they could utilize the Sabre-Baïonnette Modèle 1892 (Saber Bayonet Model 1892) as some of the Metropolitan French Light Cavalry Regiments were dis-mounted and were to serve in the trenches as light infantry. The modification consisted of setting back the front portion of the original wooden stock 114 mm (4.48 inch) from the muzzle, adding a bayonet bar, barrel band spring, barrel band spring screw and screw tube to the front of it. The barrel band spring screw had to be reduced to 20,9 mm (.822 inch) and the tube to 13,5 mm (.531 inch). The upper barrel band was to be replaced with a smaller diameter 6,35 mm (.250 inch) type as was used on the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 without a stacking rod on it. As the carbine's stock was set back, either a shorter clearing rod of the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 type, 457 mm (18 inch), was utilized or the original was shortened down to this size. The latter straight type retention bar lower barrel bands were retained with this modification. We know that in both April and July of 1916 1,000 of these were completely modified and completed. In July of 1917, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault proposed, which was authorized, to replace any unusable stocks with the new pattern Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 Modifié 1916 (Musketoon of Artillery Model 1892 Modified 1916) coming out utilizing the steel sling bar placed over an inletted notch in the left side of the stock and using the concentric ring mounted lower barrel band. In 1921 approximately 4,000 of these carbines were transformed to the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 Modifié 1916 configuration by MA C, then after this year an unknown amount were transformed over the years well up to October of 1939.
It is estimated that only about 160,000 to 200,000 of these carbines were made by both national manufactories, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MA C) and Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne (MA S) from either November or December of 1890 to either 1903 or 1904 or even possibly in 1905. Production was to have started in November as per a Ministerial Decree dated the 7th of November of 1890 but production could have been delayed till December of that year as production machinery had to set up to manufacture these firearms, details are just missing at this time.
It is estimated that 156,000 of these carbines were made from late 1890 to December of 1892 of which MA C made about 50,000 and MA S made about 106,000. None of the carbines were manufactured from 1893 to 1900. Another order of 4,000 was placed in 1900 which was manufactured to either 1903 or 1904 by both manufactories. In 1905 another order of 40,000 was placed but it is not known if this order was every accomplished or not, details are just missing and no carbines with this date or later have surfaced at this time.
Below is the estimated numbers of these firearms made during the years listed along with the letter and serial numbers that would have been used at the time which is based upon the number ordered or by examples that have been reported.
MA C NUMBERS:
1890 / 1891: 40,000 (A1 to A40000)
1892: 10,000 (A40001 to A50000)
1893 to 1900: None
1900 to 1903 / 1904: Unknown (A50001 to A502XX (unknown month/date) which is the highest serial letter and number seen to date)
MA S NUMBERS:
1890 / 1891: 94,000 (F1 to F94000)
1892: 12,000 (F94001 to G6000)
1893 to 1900: None
1900 to 1903 / 1904: Unknown (G6001 to G7716 (10/1903), which is the highest serial letter and number seen to date)
There were two other carbines adopted in 1890 and 1891, the Carabine de Cuirassier Modèle 1890 and Carabine de Gendarmerie Modèle 1890:
The Carabine de Cuirassier Modèle 1890 (Carbine of Cuirassier Model 1890) was officially adopted as per a Décision Ministérielle (Ministerial Decision) dated the 10th of December of 1890. We at this time just do not know when production of these was started but it assumed that they started in either November or December of 1890, as of current date the only reported 1890 is A60XX with proof date of (12) December. It is believed that there were approximately about 20,000 of these carbines made by only by Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault. (A1 to A20000).
This model had the same exact barrel length as the Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 but was slightly longer in overall length, 952 mm (37.48 inch) and weighed less, 2980 g (6.57 pounds). These were only issued to the Metropolitan French Heavy Cavalry Regiments (Cavalerie Lourde Française) which was composed of (12) Régiments de Cuirassiers à Cheval (Cuirassiers of Horse).
This particular model also differed from the regulation Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 as it featured a combless stock and hard leather buttplate, that were all made by Établissement Demange et Fils which was located at Boulevard Voltaire à Paris, which was secured to butt by three horizontal brass screws . This leather buttplate was utilized as it more suitable than the standard steel butt plate, which would have slipped off the tapered Model 1855 breast plate armor (Cuirasse Modèle 1855) during recoil and possibly damaging the plate. The combless stock was adopted as these troopers wore the Model 1874 helmet (Casque Cuirassier Modèle 1874) which had metal chinstrap scales riveted on the leather band and when worn down over the chin would have made it difficult to get a proper cheek weld on the stock when firing, the removal of the comb allowed them to get this proper cheek weld.
These carbines were not slung over the backs of the troopers while mounted but instead were carried in a full leather scabbard on the rear, right side of the saddle which were called as the Étui de Carabine de Cuirassier, so as we learned before with the Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 the sling configuration did not have to be modified for better carry over the shoulder of the cavalry troopers. These carbines were also not designed to accept a bayonet, since all Cuirassier troopers primary arm was their saber. These models are very rare to encounter in their original configuration as in 1916 many of these were converted to the Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle 1892 configuration (see 1916 for more details).
1890 / 1891: 20,000 (A1 to A20000)
Documented known serial numbers: A 60XX : barrel proof in December 1890, stock cartouche of June 1891; A 8981 : barrel proof unknown, no visible stock cartouche ... (1890 stamped); A 116XX : barrel proof in July 1891, no visible stock cartouche; A 16XXX : barrel 1891; A 175XX : barrel proof in October 1891, no visible stock cartouche; A 178XX : barrel proof in October 1891, no visible stock cartouche; A 190XX : barrel proof unknown, stock cartouche of November 1891; A 19084 : barrel proof unknown, stock cartouche of November 1891; A 19089 : barrel proof in October 1891, stock cartouche of November 1891 ... (1890M stamped); A 19835 : barrel proof in November 1891, stock cartouche of November 1891 ... (1890M stamped)
It is not known when exactly the Carabine de Gendarmerie Modèle 1890 was officially adopted for service but a Ministerial Telegram (Dépêche Ministérielle) dated the 25th of November, 1891 designates a new carbine of 8mm to use this name but it is not until another Ministerial Telegram (Dépêche Ministérielle) from the l'Inspecteur Permanent des Manufactures d'Armes to the Director at MAS dated the 13th of January, 1892 seems to tell him that the carbine that had been developed and had gone through recent trials with the Légions de Gendarmerie de Seine-et-Oise and the Garde Républicaine was to be adopted without any modifications which will called as the Carabine de Gendarmerie Modèle 1890.
As the Gendarmerie is in principle a national military force charged with police duties and in a time of war were placed under the direct control of the military, the need to provide them with a special type of carbine utilizing a bayonet became essential. This carbine utilized the same one piece stock as the Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 but was not stocked up to near the muzzle as it was to have an addition of a bayonet bar for the bayonet. What they came up with was to set back the front portion of the stock, 114 mm (4.48 inch) from the muzzle, adding a bayonet bar, barrel band spring, barrel band spring screw and screw tube to the front of it. The barrel band spring screw had to be reduced to 20,9 mm (.822 inch) and the tube to 13,5 mm (.531 inch). The bayonet developed for this carbine was almost a direct copy of the Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1886 as was used on the Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1886 'Lebel' but utilized a different type of locking mechanism that was located in the pommel which connected with the bayonet bar in the front of the firearm. It also featured a groove that extends down the left side of the bayonet grip to allow clearance for the shorter clearing rod, 457 mm (18 inch), brass-tipped clearing rod to fit in while attached. These bayonets were to be called as the Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1890.
Specifications: Overall Length: 25.20 in (640 mm), Blade length: 20.47 in (520 mm), Weight: .88 lb (400 g), Scabbard Length: 20.87 in (530 mm), Scabbard Weight: .44 lb (200 g)
These utilized the same type of sling arrangement as found on the Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 1ère Type, a rotating type swivel on the bottom of the stock and concentric ring mounted lower barrel band. These had the same overall length and barrel length of the Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 but weighed 100 grams more (3100 g / 6.83 pounds). These were to be issued to the French Gendarmerie units, such as the Gendarms à Cheval (Military Police of Horse), Gendarms à Pied (Military Police of Foot) and Garde Républicaine (Republican Guard).
At this time production numbers of these is quite confusing as the figures vary with texts of the researcher.
According to the book 'La Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault: 1819-1968' by Claude Lombard, the Ministry of War (Ministre de La Guerre) put out a Ministerial Decree (Décret Ministériel), date unknown, to have both Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault and Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne each making 20,000 for a total of 40,000 of these carbines (A 1 to A20000 and F1 to F20000). He also stated that that Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault made an additional 16,640 in either February or September of 1893 for a total made of 36,640 but these were in fact made specifically as Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892's. According to him these were marked as Mle.1892 on the receiver but it is unknown if these were marked as Mle.1890 or Mle.1892. Could these have also used the different types of bayonets that the Gendarmes or Artillery troops utilized made the difference in the nomenclature of the firearm, we just do not know at this time, more research or documentation needs to found to help solve this. Various collectors think that only 20,000 of these were made specifically as Carabine de Gendarmerie Modèle 1890's and have tried to determine the numbers made by MAC for each year but just right now it is guessing. Here is what we believe, serial numbers below A7000 could have been made from late 1891 or very early 1892 as lowest documented A45XX shows this to be correct. A7000 to A15000 show test proof months of March to June of 1892; A15000 to A18831 show test proof months in 1892; A18831 to A20000 might have 1892 or 1893 test proof months. Now to make it even more frustrating A13800 has a receiver marked Mle.1890 and shows a test proof month of February of 1893, why such a late date, unknown. What about the other 16,640 that were made, it is believed that these were converted as Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892's and that the serial numbers were integrated into its unique serial numbering system.
Now once again to make things confusing, in the book 'Historique de la Manufacture d'Armes de Saint Étienne' by Raymond Dubessy, he states that Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne made 44,000 of these carbines but only he only found that 30,839 were actually made as Carabine de Gendarmerie Modèle 1890. There is also reference to an additional 13,161 that were made in 1892 without bayonets (why ? unknown), which would support MAS numbers (30839 + 13,161 = 44,000) but these made specifically as Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892's, but again it unknown if these were marked as Mle.1890 or Mle.1892. Again, could these have also used the different types of bayonets that the Gendarmes or Artillery troops utilized made the difference in the nomenclature of the firearm, we just do not know at this time, more research or documentation needs to found to help solve this. Various collectors think that he was correct in that only 30,839 (F1 to F30839) of these carbines were made specifically as Carabine de Gendarmerie Modèle 1890's. It is unknown when the first of these were made there but it could have been from very late 1891 or in 1892. We do know that F9000 and above have test proof months in 1892. Again, we just right now can not give a clear example of how many were made as the records are missing, lost, destroyed or misplaced on this all.
So lets just assume from what we have seen above and until other documentation shows up in the future to show otherwise, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault made 20,000 and Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne made 30,839 of these specific carbines.
1892 - As French military doctrine required the Artillery, Engineers and Machine Gun Troops to work in close concert with the both the Infantry and Cavalry, they would be in need of secondary type firearm to protect themselves at close quarters which did not require a full sized rifle, so it was decided to equip these various types of regiments and units with a short type carbine that could easily be slung over the shoulders while they worked. As the Carabine de Gendarmerie Modèle 1890 had been developed for usage with a bayonet, it naturally had been decided to simply adopt this carbine for usage with these units but changing the name and year of it to be called as the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 (Musketoon of Artillery Model 1892) which was formally adopted into service as per a Décision Ministérielle (Ministerial Decision) dated the 30th of August, 1892. These firearms were to be mainly issued to the Régiments de Artillerie (Regiments of Artillery), Régiments du Génie (Regiment of Engineers), Régiments du Train (Regiments of Transportation), Troupes de Mitrailleurs (Machine Gun Troops) and to the Marine Nationale Fusiliers Marins (French National Navy Naval Fusiliers) which only acquired about 2,000 of these for their usage. These were also originally issued to the Tirailleurs Indochinois but it was found that these had to severe of a recoil for them to handle that a specialized rifle had to be developed for them which came in 1902 in the form of the Fusil de Tirailleur Indochinois Modèle 1902 (see 1902 for more information)
The only difference between the Carabine de Gendarmerie Modèle 1890 and Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 in other than the left side of the receiver markings was the bayonet that they used, the Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle 1892 utilized a sword type bayonet, which was designed so that it could be used to chop wood, clearing brush, open ammunition crates, etc. in the performance of the soldiers duties. This new bayonet was to be called as the Sabre-Baïonnette Modèle 1892 (Saber Bayonet Model 1892) of which there were three different variations which underwent a number of changes during their time in service and are listed below.
The Premier (1ère) Type (First (1st) Type) was the original version which featured a muzzle ring that did not extend over the grips that were made of a hard black vulcanized rubber grips called fibre noir that were affixed by two small pins. These type of grips are often called as 'bakelite' in collecting circles.
In 1905, wood (bois) was to be used for the grips as it was found that the bakelite grips were easily broken during service as they aged but for some reason this never got completely done. The grips were now to be affixed by much fatter pins and rivets.
The Deuxième (2ème) Type (Second (2nd) Type) As it was found that the bayonet was not secured on the front sight very tightly, so in 1912 they modified the bayonet muzzle ring to extend 1/8 of an inch over the back of the grips to allow it to be better locked on the barrel and front sight. This modified version was called as the Deuxième (2ème) Type (Second (2nd) Type) and both bakelite and wood grips were used with this variation.
The Troisième (3ème) Type) (Third (3rd) Type) is easily distinguishable by the removal of the first third of the quillion during the manufacturing process, not cut-off as it is often written in books or on the internet. It is not know when exactly this process was done as some sources say it was done in January 1915 and others say it was late September 1918. It is believed that the partial removal of the quillion was done, for 'trench' warfare and ease of manufacturing steps. In 1915 wood grips were exclusively used and any of the bakelite grips that were brought in for repairs were to replaced.
Specifications: Overall Length: 21.25 in (540 mm); Blade length: 15.43 in (392 mm); Weight: .94 lb (425 g); Scabbard Length: 16.25 in (412 mm); Scabbard Weight: .47 lb (215 g)
There were approximately only about 700,000 of the musketoons made by both Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault which made 380,000 from August 30, 1892 to April or October of 1917 (Prefix letters A, B, D, and E (E80000), C does not seemed to be used for some unknown reason) and Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Étienne which made 301,700 from August 30, 1892 to March of 1915 (prefix letters F, G, H and J (J17XX)).
1894 - It was found that the sling due to its rotating type swivel located at the bottom of the stock and concentric ring mounted on the left side of the lower barrel band of the Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 1ère Type was not suited for carrying while mounted as it tore into the uniform and the shoulders of the trooper, therefore it was decided by a Ministerial Decree (Décret Ministériel) put out by the Ministry of War (Ministre de La Guerre) on the 30th of May 1894 to modify the firearm to carry it in a better position while on the back of the cavalry trooper. The rotating sling swivel mounted on the underside of the stock was removed, filled in and replaced with a 6 cm (2.36 inch) steel sling bar placed over an inletted notch in the left side of the stock. The concentric ring was replaced with a straight type retention bar which resulted in the Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890 2ème Type (Carbine of Cavalry Model 1890 2nd Type) being adopted for service on the 25th of March 1895. In 1909 another Ministerial Decree was written to modify the 1st Type models that had not been modified to this new system, thus making these very rare to acquire in its original 1st Type configuration.
1901 - In January of 1898 a new service cartridge was adopted for service, developed by Artillery Major Désaleux, called Cartouche Modèle 1886 à Balle D, commonly called Balle D, which featured a solid lathe turned brass, spitzer, boat-tailed bullet, which was generalized for service in 1901. As this cartridge started to replace the older Cartouche à Balle Ordinaire Modèle 1886 M , the rear sights of the Berthiers already in service had to be modified for the new rounds trajectory. The quickest and simplest method was to grind down the right ladder steps on the rear sight to compensate for this new trajectory instead of having to replace them with a completely new rear sight. The rear sight might sometimes be marked on the base with a "D" and/or the receivers sometimes also be might be marked with "M.D." (Modification Désaleux) after the weapons nomenclature indicating that they undergone this new change.
1902 - As per a Décision Ministérielle (Ministerial Decision) dated the 24th of December 1902 the half cock notch on the cocking piece which had been intended to be used as a rudimentary safety was no longer made as it was determined that this feature was now useless under the pretext that it did not allowed the bolt to be maneuvered quickly and with its removal it allowed the rifle to be cycled at a faster rate.
A Ministerial Decree (Décret Ministériel) put out by the Minisrty of War (Ministre de La Guerre) dated the 10th of January 1902 called for a modification of a unique curved stacking hook to be added to the upper barrel band of the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 which was called as the Embouchoir Modèle 1902, to allow these firearms to be stacked for a long period in the field by the 'Batteries Alpines' de Régiments de Artillerie de Montagne ('Alpine Batteries' of Regiments of Mountain Artillery). The firearms this new upper barrel band was used with were regular production Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892's which just featured this barrel band and were not specially built for this modification. It is estimated that about only 1,200 to 1,500 of these firearms utilized this new barrel band.
NOTE: Musketoons that have this barrel applied to them are not called as the Model 1892/1902 Colonial Carbine, or any other designation or name, they were just simply a Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 with the addition of this barrel band.
When the various Vietnamese/Cambodian troops called Tirailleurs Indochinois (Annamites, Tonkinois, Cambodgiens ) in Indochina were issued the Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle 1892 and it was found that it had too much recoil for them, the Gouverneur de l'Indochine asked the Ministre de La Guerre in 1901, after a visit to Paris, to develop a special rifle for them. The Comité de L'Artillerie looked into the problem and determined that as the Berthier was already in production as a carbine, it would be a rather simple task to produce a scaled-down rifle that would be perfect for the smaller stature colonial troops in Indochina.
The weapon produced for them was the Fusil de Tirailleur Indochinois Modèle 1902 which was adopted for service on May 22,1902, was 1,125m (44 1/16") in overall length with a 0,635m (25.0 inch) barrel, weighing 3,600 kg (7.93 pounds). The upper barrel band had a unique curved stacking hook added, a feature not found on any Berthier up until then, which was used for interlocking a small groups of rifles in an upright position like the frame of a teepee when arms were to be stacked for a period in the field.
All previous made Berthiers were stacked by interlocking the clearing rod. Like the rest of the Berthiers in service it lacked a top hand guard, had a long brass-tipped clearing rod mounted down the left side of the forearm and used 3-shot en-bloc packet/chargers. The most important feature that this rifle was to have was the addition of a recoil lug to the rear of the receiver to help prevent breakages and cracks in the stock near the wrist. This problem was found to be chronic, over 60%, in all the Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle 1892 that were in service in Indochina due to the extreme high humidity conditions encountered there. This problem was later addressed in 1909 for all earlier produced weapons already in service. The bayonet used with this rifle was the Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1902 which was identical in design to the Gendarmerie bayonet and are in fact interchangeable.
All of these rifles were manufactured solely by Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MAC) for the basic price of 51,58F (51 Francs/58 centimes) and it is believed that possibly only 32,500 were made (see below for numbers). These were delivered to Indochina in zinc-lined cases of 20 rifles in the following numbers:
1902: Décret Ministériel N° 15649 dated 05/22/1902: 10,000 weapons ordered (A1 - A10000), sold to Indochina for a price of 56 francs, the contract was finished in 1903, it was sent and delivered to Tonkin.
1904: Décret Ministériel N° 6059/2/3 dated 02/21/1904: 4,500 weapons ordered (A10001 - A14500), sold to Indochina for a price of 63 francs, the contract was finished in December 1904, it was sent and delivered to Tonkin. 2,500 went to La Direction d'Artillerie de Saigon and 2,000 to La Direction d'Artillerie de Hanoi.
1906: Décret Ministériel N° 13629/2/3 dated 04/11/1906: 10,000 weapons ordered, 6,000 planed for in 1906 and 4,000 planed for in 1907. These were sold to Établissement Schneider et Cie at the price of 72,15 francs/centimes each for sales to Persia (Iran). These weapons are numbered from 1 to 10,000 and do not not have a letter prefix before the serial number. This order was fufilled by August 1907, the weapons were then transferred to Établissement Schneider et Cie in March 1908 for delivery. Due to some administrative problems with the Russian Custom Officials, as these were going by via rail through their territory, they finally arrived in Persia in April of 1908. These featured rear sights calibrated for Cartouche à Balle Ordinaire Modèle 1886 M.
1906: Décret Ministerial N° unknown dated 7/16/1906: 3,000 weapons ordered (A14501 - A17500) and 1907: Décret Ministériel N° 26026/2/3 dated 05/13/1907: 200 weapons ordered (A17501 - A17700), sent to Indochina for a price of 75,67 francs/centimes, both of these were sent and delivered to Tonkin in December of 1907.
NOTE: weapons A154XX which has a barrel date of 7/1907 and A153XX a barrel date of 8/1907 and as these weapons were the first to receive the up-graded rear sights for Cartouche Modèle 1886 à Balle D this could explain the delay of the 1906 dated Décret Ministerial to 1907.
These should have been theoretically marked with the ‘M.D.’ (Modification Désaleux) after the weapons nomenclature indicating that they undergone this new change but were not marked with it.
1907: Décret Ministériel N° 43508/2/3 dated 12/05/1907: 1,000 ordered (A17701 - A18700) and sent for forces in Annam.
1910: Décret Ministériel N° 8655/2/3 dated 02/23/1910: 1,300 ordered (A18701 - A20000) and sent to the forces in Annam.
1911: Décret Ministériel N° 7535/2/3 dated 02/14/1911: 2,500 ordered (A20001 - A22500) and sent for the forces in Annam.
NOTE: weapons A188XX which has a barrel date of 1908 with a 1910 reception date of 1910 and A208XX a barrel date of 1911 is marked with ‘M.D.’ after the weapons nomenclature.
1912: Unknown amount made or ordered (A22500 - A22720 highest serial number seen for far)
1914: An order was placed for 300 weapons but none were made due to the outbreak of The Great War in August of that year.
1908 - With the successful adoption of the Fusil de Tirailleur Indochinois Modèle 1902 for its troops in Indochina, the French military decided to replace the Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 "Lebel" that were in service with the French West, Central and East African colonies, particularly Senegal, all of whom were tall in stature, with a full-scale rifle. In 1904 l’Inspection Permanente des Fabrications d’Artillerie along with Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault got together with the S.T.A to develop this new rifle.
What they came up with was the Fusil de Tirailleur Sénégalais Modèle 1907 as it was named in Décret Ministerial 34117/2/3 dated August 9, 1907 but in 1908 it was then decided to widen the issuance of the weapon to other colonial troops, except those in Indochina, and Décret Ministerial 22859/2/3 of June 6, 1908 re-named the rifle to Fusil Colonial Modèle 1907 which was adopted for service on June 19,1908. With the introduction of this rifle the Berthier finally came of age as a full-length infantry rifle. This rifle had an overall length of 1,305m (51 3/16") with a 0,800m (31 1/2") barrel and weighing 3,800kg (8.37 pounds). Again like all previous Berthiers it lacked a top hand guard, used the 3-shot en-bloc packet/charger, had the curved stacking hook on the upper barrel band but one feature that was completely eliminated was the brass-tipped clearing rod. The barrel of this weapon was of the same exact barrel as used on the Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 "Lebel" which featured the same front and rear sights and muzzle diameter. As this weapon did not use the same upper barrel band as found on the Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 "Lebel" but followed the lines of the previous Berthier bayonet attachment, a new bayonet had to be developed to be used for this weapon which was to be called the Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1907.
Once again all there rifles were built solely by Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MAC). This model was plagued with a number of faults and breakage of parts due to the various weather conditions this rifle encountered such as high humidity and desert conditions mixed together, which caused a number of high ranking officers and officials to cease issuing them until the problem could be resolved, which never happened though. This problem was finally solved sometime in 1914/1915 utilizing better metallurgy and heat treatment procedures.
It is believed that only less than 25,000 of these weapons were made (see below for numbers). The only production numbers know are as follows:
1907: From May 5, 1907 which terminated in 1908: 12,500 weapons made (A1 - A12500), 10,000 rifles were dispatched to Afrique Occidentale Française (AOF) and 2,500 to the Congo which was part of Afrique Équatoriale Française (AEF).
1908: 10 weapons made (A12501 - A12510), these were held in storage for eventual distribution to wherever needed.
1909: 818 weapons made (A12511 - A13328), 500 went to the Congo, 263 to the Côte d'Ivoire (Ivory Coast), 15 held in storage for eventual distribution to wherever needed, 40 for other unknown destinations.
1910: 2,416 weapons made (A13329 - A15744), unknown where these were sent to.
NOTE: These weapons were the first to receive the up-graded rear sights for Cartouche Modèle 1886 à Balle D and should have been theoretically marked with the ‘M.D.’ (Modification Désaleux) after the weapons nomenclature indicating that they undergone this new change but were not marked with it.
1911: 1,000 weapons made (A15745 - A16744), these were held in reserve.
1912: 1,000 weapons made (A16745 - A17744), the order was terminated in 1913. 240 delivered to Dahomey, 200 to Guinée, and 158 to the AEF.
1913: 6,103 weapons made (A17745 - A23847), unknown where these were sent to.
NOTE: These are marked with ‘M.D.’ after the weapons nomenclature.
1914: An order was placed for 2,400 weapons but due to the outbreak of The Great War in August only 722 were completed (A 23848 - A 24569). The rest of the 1,678 weapons were made after the war had started but were converted to use an upper barrel band that had a semi-circular base and adding a one piece bayonet guide under the barrel allowed the standard Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1886to be utilized, this modification was to become the basis for the latter produced Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915.
NOTE: Some of these weapons utilized the standard serial number range found after A24569 but it is not known to what number they went to as many of the remaining ones started with a new serial number range of it own with adoption of the produced Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915 on February 26, 1915. There is also possibility that the 722 weapons were converted to the 1915 pattern in January of 1916, the records are very sketchy on these details though.
1909 - During this year sometime a decision was made to add a recoil lug to the rear of the receiver of all new made carabines and mousquetons to help prevent the wrist breakages in the stock, which was dovetailed to fit this modification.
1910 - On May 22 the Ministre de la Guerre (Ministry of War) wanted to build and test a carbine for the sixteen Dragoon Regiments (Régiments de Dragons) and under the guidance of the Section Technique de l'Artillerie (S.T.A.) and Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault, 100 Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890's were converted for experimentation, which were to be called the Carabine de Dragons Modèle 1890.
These carbines had two very unique features never seen before on any Berthier's up to this date, a 295 mm (11.61 inch) reversible triangular bayonet with a hooked quillion and full length hand guard running the top of the barrel from the front of the receiver to a specially made upper barrel band.
The bayonet system was unique in that it was the first French design of having a bayonet meant to stay with the carbine at all times. The bayonet was of a socket type that had a mortise that was to be slipped over the barrel right up to the upper barrel band and was held in place by the front sight base. It had a knurled collar that was located halfway between the two ends. When the bayonet was not to be used, it was reversed, re-slipped back on the barrel and went inside a steel tube in the front of the stock. It was latched and unlatched by means of a trigger type catch mounted underneath the special bayonet housing which was part of the upper barrel band that was secured to the stock by a single screw that went from the left to right. As with all Berthier carbines previously adopted, a brass-tipped clearing rod was mounted down the left side of the forearm. In December after extensively converting all of these carbines, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault submitted them to l’Atelier Central for trials in January of 1911. After a series of delays due to circumstances beyond their control they were finally issued to the 16ème Régiment de Dragons stationed at Riems in November of 1911 for service testing at both Camp de Châlons and Camp de Versailles. After these initial tests it was found that these carbines needed some additional modifications and were returned back to Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault. On July 26, 1912 they were returned back for more extensive field testing. In January of 1914, approximately another 400 more of these weapons were built for service testing but as fate would have it the project was finally terminated in August of 1914 due to start of The Great War. This system was to be re-introduced in the 1928-1934 trials for what would become the Fusil Modèle 1936. Most of these weapons were either scrapped or re-built into other configurations during the war.
1914-1918 - La Grande Guerre - During The Great War, the French military did what they had to do to make complete weapons especially after the Battle of Verdun known as the "meat grinder" during the first half of 1916, which chewed up men, animals and material at an unprecedented pace. The ongoing struggle waged by French Ordnance to arm the troops at the front, along with each year's new draft of young men, resulted in large-scale small arms salvage operations, where teams of scroungers picked up all of these weapons, all along the various fronts and were returned to the nearest facility for re-build and re-issue. The French arsenals put together rifles and carbines with whatever parts were on hand, be it carbine or rifle, from these battlefield-recovered weapons resulting in, rifles found with carbine bolts, carbines with rifle bolts and more, especially when it comes to stocks and stock furniture, you name it!. They did not stand on ceremony, tossing all of the pre-war fussiness out the window and re-built them as fast as possible into any functional model that they could. The easiest way to determine the number of potential wartime variations is to take a stack of Berthier components from the various models and see how many different ways you could possibly put them together, you will be surprised at what you could make!.
All this frequent re-building using parts from different models resulted in one of the more interesting aspects of collecting WWI-issue Berthier rifles and carbines, “What do I really have ?”, just remember this, that what ever configuration the weapon is at the present state is now is the nomenclature of this particular weapon.
So the next time you stumble across a Berthier at a gun shop, in the rack at a gun show, at the range, or on the internet, don't be surprised if it has one or more features from several different models.
1915 - As the war went into its second year with the Western Front having one solid line of massive trenches from the coast in Belgium to the Alps Mountain Range on the Swiss border and the cavalry trooper was no longer required to be on horseback but instead were manning the trenches as Infantrymen, the various cavalry carbines began to be converted to the Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle 1892 configuration. This conversion consisted of shortening the forend of the stock and fitting them with a bayonet lug and in the case of the Carabine de Cuirassiers Modèle 1890, the stocks were replaced with the Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle 1892 pattern combed stocks but still retaining the leather butt plates.
As France had suffered a large amounts of staggering defeats, with massive losses of men and material at the outbreak of the war during the crushing defeat of "Plan 17" and the "Battle of the Frontiers", which brought the Germans within striking distance of Paris, the French victory at the "1st Battle of the Marne", which staved off a potential German victory, nearly brought the country to its knees. French forces were desperately short of weapons to equip the replacements for the tens of thousands of casualties suffered before the end of 1914, one answer, as determined by the Ministre de La Guerre in November of 1914, was to increase production of the Berthier system and tasked Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MAC) to find a solution. The easiest solution MAC found was to slightly alter the Fusil de Tirailleur Sénégalais Modèle 1907, as it could be pushed into mass production with an absolute minimal number of changes into a new model full-length rifle (see 1907 above). This new model was to be called the Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915, which was adopted for service on February 26,1915. This weapon was almost identical with the following exceptions: The upper barrel band was redesigned with a semi-circular base, with a straight ball-tipped stacking hook, and the front sight was changed from a blade type to a square block with a small shallow V groove in it to allow for pin-pointing a target, the rear sight was modified to conform to this new pattern front sight. The very first production, 80,000, did have a bent bolt handle but in November it was determined that this should be changed to a beefed-up straight type bolt handle with a rounded bolt-knob for easier opening of the bolt in combat and all production after the 15th of December followed this recommendation. The production number for these rifles that are known are as follows: March: 200, May: 1,470, August: 46,000, October: 51,000, December: 54,000, the maximum number was obtained in July of 1916 with 101,511 and the final production numbers reached by the end of the war was a staggering 2,387,541. As the two National Armories producing Berthiers, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault et Saint Étienne, could not keep pace with production demands set by the Ministre de La Guerre therefore it became necessary to contract with the various private manufacturing firms in France and elsewhere to help produce parts or whole complete weapons (See list below).
A 24302, bent bolt, JH, J L MAC 1915, June 1915 cartouche, Mle.1907-1915 marking
A Ministerial Decree (Décret Ministériel) was put out by the Ministry of War (Ministre de La Guerre) dated the 25th of July 1915 to modify 135,000 Carabine de Cavalerie Modèle 1890's to the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 configuration so that they could utilize the Sabre-Baïonnette Modèle 1892. The modification consisted of setting back the front portion of the original wooden stock 114 mm (4.48 inch) from the muzzle, adding a bayonet bar, barrel band spring, barrel band spring screw and screw tube to the front of it. The barrel band spring screw had to be reduced to 20,9 mm (.822 inch) and the tube to 13,5 mm (.531 inch). The front barrel band was to be replaced with a smaller diameter type as was used on the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 with or without a stacking rod on it. Either a shorter clearing rod, 457 mm (18 inch) was utilized or the original was to be modified to this size. The latter straight type retention bar barrel bands were to retained with this modification. In April of 1916 1,000 of these completed and in July another 1,000 were completed. In July of 1917, Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault proposed, which was authorized, to replace any unusable stocks with ones made specifically for the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 but utilizing the steel sling bar placed over an inletted notch in the left side of the stock and using the concentric ring mounted lower barrel band.
1916 - As the Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915 production was well underway, two French designers, Sous-Lieutenant Vibert and Contrôleur Généraux Principaux Chossé of Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MAC), started to work in March to up-date the Berthier to match the 5-round capacity of the German Infanterie Gewehr 1898, as it had been felt by the French soldier (poilu) that the 3-shot magazine was a handicap compared to the German Mauser which in a time of war could be detrimental to morale. After a series of tests, Sous-Lieutenant Vibert design was adopted on November 28 by Marshall of France, Commandant of the Armies, Joseph Jacques Césaire Joffre culminating in the both the Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915 Modifié 1916 and Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle 1892 Modifié 1916 and were to be called by the simple designation “M.16”.
The rifle version was exactly identical to the Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915 already in production except that it had an addition of an extended 5-shot magazine and a top hand guard running from the front of the receiver to 3 inches beyond the lower barrel band. A new larger diameter barrel band was made to fit over the hand guard to keep it in place. Due to the extreme taper of the Cartouche Modèle 1886 à Balle D (am), the extended magazine is substantially thicker and deeper in the back and slopes forward toward the stock. As originally issued, the extended magazine retained the same rectangular opening in the floor plate to allow the expulsion of the empty en-bloc packet/charger upon reloading but in the mud. dirt and filth of the trenches, all of these designs proved susceptible to collecting foreign debris through the charger ejection port causing enumerable jams as the dirt and crud collected on the cartridges which was then carried into the action. The French lessened this problem somewhat by adding a spring-retained cover over the ejection port so that the soldier could either flip it open manually or just force a fresh en-bloc packet/charger into the magazine forcing the cover open to allow the charger to fall free from the magazine system. The cover could the either be closed by the soldier or simply left open if firing was continual. With this modification the follower assembly was lengthened to fit the extended magazine. With the new extra features added, the rifle weighed a hefty 4,195kg (9.25 pounds).
Thes new type mousquetons were at first produced exactly like the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892's, without any hand guards which used a rear barrel band that was flush with the barrel and stock and having a rotating swivel mounted on the underside of the stock. The biggest difference was that these had the addition of the extended 5-shot magazine on the triggerguard / magazine assembly. These were made from the period of about October 1917 to about December of 1917 and these are what collectors refer to as Premier (1er) Type (First (1st) Type) models.
The first usage of receiver's stamped with 'M16' began to be massively used in or about August of 1917, but they all had 3 - shot magazines and the original stock as described above. The first 5-shot magazines began to appear in October of 1917, but were melted together with the 3-shot which became rarer and rarer as these were made but still some could be seen on firearms made until January of 1918..
Starting in December of 1917 it was decided to change this particular model to include a top hand guard with a rear barrel band that fit over the hand guard to keep it in place and replace the rotating swivel mounted on the underside of the stock with the inletted notch and sling bar which collectors refer to as the Deuxième (2ème) Type (Second (2nd) Type) models. With the extra features the carbine version weighed a hefty 3,100 kg (6.84 pounds). It is hard to know exactly when these 2nd Type stocks really began to be used which could have been possibly in November of 1917 but it seems that the 1st Type stocks seem to have disappeared from production by January of 1918.
PLEASE NOTE: The two 'Type' designations were not official designations use by the French military but are just what French firearms collectors use to differentiate between the two different types of Mousqueton d'Artillerie Modèle 1892 Modifié 1916’s.
These new rifles and carbines did not start to be distributed until very late 1917 and very few of these replaced the Berthiers already in service during The Great War, it was not until after the war that these were to become the standard issue.
It was at this time that a straight ball-tipped stacking hook was added to upper band of the earlier produced Carabines and Mousquetons but in very limited numbers.
Starting in July of 1916 many of the Carabine de Cuirassier Modèle 1890's were converted to the Mousqueton de Artillerie Modèle 1892 configuration as six of the twelve regiments became totally dismounted, re-named as Régiments de Cuirassiers à Pied (Cuirassiers of Foot), placed in the trenches to serve alongside the infantry but still retaining their cuirass and helmets. The biggest modification to these was that they replaced the combless stock with a regular combed stock with the added bayonet bar to the front of the firearm so that the Sabre-Baïonnette Modèle 1892 could be utilized and a replacing the clearing rod with a shorter type used by that model. Some of these still retained the leather buttplate but most were replaced with the steel one.
Starting in August and again in March 1917 Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MAC) developed “night sights” for the as-issued front and rear sights, the modification consisted of placing a small amount of fluorescent radium in a small 1/8" deep rounded hole on the front sight facing the shooter and two on the back of the rear sight leaf , one on each side of the sight notch.
1920 - "A" sights were started to be adopted, these were squared U shaped rear sights which were meant to replace the earlier rear sight V shaped sights. These sights did not quite replace the older sights of the some of the weapons already in service. If these sights were used they were supposed to be marked with an "A" on base of the rear sight but in most cases this was never done for one reason or another.
The majority of the Carabine de Cuirassiers were converted to the M16 configuration in November which included the adding of the hand guards, the inletted notch and sling bar and the 5 shot en-bloc packet/charger system.
Starting in 1920 the French military had decided to make some new weapons for the forces in Indochina to help replace losses that had incurred during the war and expansion of the forces there, they decided to pattern them on the latest Berthier system that had been adopted in 1916, the M16 configuration. The new weapons were to be called the Fusil de Tirailleur Indochinois Modèle 1902 Modifié 1916, 15,250 of these were made in the following numbers:
1920: 10,000 (A22501 - A32500); 1921: 2,200 (A32501 - A34700); 1924: 1,000 (A34701 - A35700); 1925: 1,000 (A35701 - A36700); 1926: 4,950 (A36701 - A41650); 1927: 3,000 (A41651 - A44650); 1928: 3,100 (A44651 - A47750).
These “new” rifles are extremely rare to find as the majority of them never left Vietnam and have disappeared over time.
1927 - This was the year when the majority of modifications took place, which happened to be the biggest and most extensive re-building program for the French military after The Great War. As had been done before they did what they had to do to make complete weapons, particularly to the M16 configuration using any parts that were on hand. The biggest difference this time for the Carabines and Mousquetons was the stock, in which clearing rod was removed and the clearing rod channel on the left side of the forearm was filled in with a wooden patch or they were completely re-stocked with a brand new stock without the clearing rod channel. In addition, a straight ball-tipped stacking hook was added to the left side of the top barrel band in which two small holes were drilled in the original top barrel band, the stacking hook was then pinned and brazed to the side of the upper barrel band.
Sometime around 1930, they began to update the receivers of guns made before 1909 in which a recoil lug was added to the earlier receivers by a dovetail slot and pin, these were brazed or hard soldered to the receiver.
This modification was done at Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MAC) and when completed they struck a proof mark across the joint. This work is almost totally perfect and reflects the peacetime efforts to rebuild at a leisurely pace.
1932 - Modèle 1932N (Nouveau) was adopted for use, this new cartridge was designed for long range shooting in Heavy Machine Guns, such as the Mitrailleuse Hotchkiss Modèle 1914 and is much more powerful than the regular rifle ammo at the time Cartouche Modèle 1886 à Balle D (am). This cartridge has a much heavier bullet being pushed by a bigger powder charge resulting in a higher chamber pressure and firing this cartridge in a non-N modified weapon will most likely lead to catastrophic failure with injuries for both the shooter and any bystanders.
This cartridge may chamber alright in a non-N modified weapon, which does not have a capital “ N” stamped on the top of the barrel and receiver at 12 O'clock position, and as stated it will generate much higher pressures than expected as the chambers neck (collet) is not sized up to allow the neck of the this cartridge to expand sufficiently to release the bullet as designed. A common misconception is the maximum diameter of the Modèle 1932N bullet which is exactly the same as the Cartouche Modèle 1886 à Balle D (am) bullet: 8,32mm (.3275 inch). The biggest difference between the solid brass lathe turned "D" bullet and the lead-core “N” bullet beside the weight is the location of their maximum diameter: For the “D” bullet, it on the fore part of the bullet, before the crimping groove and outside of the case neck. In the case of the “N” bullet, it is on the aft part of the bullet, after the crimping groove and inside the case neck. Due to the above, the enlarged neck of the Modèle 1932N cartridge had to have a maximum acceptable diameter of 9,02mm instead of 8,80mm for the previous Cartouche Modèle 1886 cartridges. The origin of the chamber re-throating was carried out on the various weapons in service that were still in French inventory as of 1934 with most being done during the period 1935 to 1939. One other interesting fact is the "N" label is a misinterpretation as there is no such item as a "N" cartridge in any of the French texts and if you wish to use the correct name for this cartridge, you would have to call it Cartouche Modèle 1932N.
Between January and May of 1932, the French state weapon factories did a series of tests on steel pieces exposed to rain, salted rain, bathed in water, scratched by leather and so on to see what the effects of these would be. They then treated these surfaces with different kinds of treatments and two different type of phosphatations stood out as excellent possibilities to be used. The first was made by Parker Rust Proof Co, which was introduced in France in May of 1927 under the name of Parcosel, later called as parkérisation and other by a French firm named O.F.A.M. (No more detail about the name exists at this time) named as Ofamisation. A report was put out that said that more tests had to be done on real weapons with real use in the field to determine which would be best for use, in the end parkerization won out. Firearms that treated with these different treatments were marked as PK and OF on the left rear wall of the receiver and other parts. All the firearms stamped OF have barrel dates of 1933 and those marked as PK have barrel dates of 1934 to 1940. The PK marking was only used by any firearms made or re-built by Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault.
The black enamel paint finish used during the interwar period was called Parkolac or Parcolac which was also used by the National Railway Company, SNCF, on railroad steam engines and tenders.
1934- After World War One had ended the French military realized that the Cartouche Modèle 1886 was not suited for light machine gun usage and in 1924 Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MAC) designed a new light machine gun and cartridge to replace them. What they came up with was a new modern light machine gun, the Fusil Mitrailleuse Modèle 1924 chambered in 7,5x58mm and in 1929 the cartridge case was shortened 4mm (7,5x54mm) to stop the number of accidental incidents between it and the German 7,92x57mm Mauser cartridge. This new cartridge was called Modèle 1929C à Balle Ordinaire, of which Balle C was meant to be used with rifles and Balle D for light machine guns.
Starting in 1927 a small number, under 5,000, of Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 "Lebel" ‘s were converted to the new cartridge, now called the Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1886 Modifié 1893 Modifié 1927, but due to number of extreme modifications and exorbitant expense required to convert it, the military decided that it would be much easier and less expensive to convert the Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915.
In 1932 both Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MAC) and Tulle (MAT) began work on this new conversion, to be called the Fusil d'Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915 Modifié 1934 or simply “M.34”, after a series of testing at both Camp de Châlons and Camp de Versailles it was adopted for service in early 1934.
The weapon was to retain the typical Berthier lineage but was modified to the following major components: the barrel was replaced with a new 570mm (22.4 inch) chambered for the Modèle 1929C; both the front and rear sights were changed to reflect the change in the new caliber ballistics, the rear sight leaf and base was changed to a sliding ramp type which was graduated from 200 to 900 meters which used simplified correction sights to adjust azimuth/deflection which were marked on the back of the rear sight as D, N or G (Droite, Neutral or Gauche); the bolt head was replaced with one that was able to support the base of the rimless Modèle 1929C and a movable type ejector added; hand guards were added to the top of the barrel and with this a new lower barrel band and hand guard retaining ring near the receiver was used to hold it in place. The biggest modification however was the magazine system which was changed to a 5 round staggered-column box type with a spring loaded follower and solid floor plate. The top of the receiver was notched with charger guides so that the magazine could be loaded by the use of charger/stripper clips. This new rifle was 1,080m (42.51 inch) in overall length and weighed 3,700kg (8.15 pounds). There were two different variations made, one for the infantry and one for the cavalry. The difference between these two was the sling placement, the infantry model had the typical under mounted rear sling configuration and the cavalry model utilizing the sling bar and both had the concentric ring mounted on the left side of the weapon. Approximately 65,000 weapons were converted to this new system from 1934 to 1939 and 90% converted were the infantry version. The bayonet used on the two models was either the Epée-Baïonnette Modèle 1886 Modifié 1915 or Sabre-Baïonnette Modèle 1892-1915 depending on the branch of service the rifle was used by. Most of these rifles were issued to the Fortress Infantry such as those who were stationed on the Maginot Line.
41 of these are reported (see post below)
1937 - A very small unknown amount of Fusil de Tirailleur Indochinois Modèle 1902 were converted at this time to Modèle 1929C to become the Fusil de Tirailleur Indochinois Modèle 1902 Modifié 1937. These are marked on the left side of the receiver “Type S.E - MAS 1902 M.37”, SE is for Service d'Etudes, which was a workshop of Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Saint Etienne (MAS) dedicated to making prototype or very small runs of weapons for testing purpose before the approval of a model for full scale line fabrication. These are extremely rare as the majority of them were destroyed during World War Two.
1948 Turkish Forestry Carbine ... Turkey is a widely forested country as almost 30% of the country is covered by woodlands, nearly all of it owned directly by the Turkish government. One of the most valuable trees in the forests, and a source of considerable income for the government, is Circassian Walnut. Poachers of these trees were becoming increasingly bold, and were a threat to the 5,000 the Turkish Forestry Rangers tasked with protecting these forests, so it was decided in the late 1940's, most likely 1948, to arm these men with firearms to both protect themselves and this valuable resource. The Turkish Ministry of Forest and Water Managemeni (Orman ve Su İşleri Bakanlığı) looked for a simple firearm to arm these rangers with and came up with a unique solution, a rebuilt Berthier. At the time, the Turkish government had tens of thousands of these firearms on hand which came from many different sources such as ones they had captured during The Great War (WWI), the Turkish War of Independence (1919-1923), had intercepted during WWII from Vichy forces in Syria and Lebanon either from trains passing through their territory on route to Iraq or interned Vichy French Forces fleeing the British and their Allies during Operation Exporter in 1941 or in some cases were received as gifts from the Germans over the years and literally millions of rounds of ammunition. The reason to utilize these had several distinct advantages for usage by the Forestry Service. These were very rugged, as these men were and still remain a group that mostly operates on horseback and could be easily slung over the back while on patrol. These were not able to challenge the real military if they fell into any revolutionary rebel hands and the 8x50R nm cartridge that it fired was rare in civilian hands and not commonly available on the black market. With no ready source of ammunition even if the rifle fell into the wrong hands it was unlikely it would be very useful. A final factor was that the rifle was very distinctive in profile and a stolen Berthier would cause attention to the authorities the way other weapons would not have.
As they mostly had alot of rifles on hand, mostly Fusil de Infanterie Modèle 1907-1915 and Modèle 1907-1915 Modifié 1916's and wanted the rangers to carry a carbine so they had to heavily modify these rifles to a carbine type configuration.
They started out by shortening the barrel about 228.60 mm (9 inches) which gave it a length of 533 mm (21 inches) long and recrowned the muzzle; installed a Mauser front sight and front sight base; cut the front portion of stock to the new length of the barrel; removed the rear sight base and component's, re-graduated the steps on the rear sight base, added graduation markings on the top of the rear sight leaf and cut in notches in the slider so that the numbers on the top of the rear sight leaf could be read easily; installed a upper hand guard retainer sleeve or also refered to as a barrel shroud right up against where the barrel meets the receiver; replaced the rear sight about 12.7 mm (1/2 inch) from the front of the barrel shroud; had to machine out new grooves for rear sight base and the barrel shroud in the stock; re-worked the front of the stock so that a Mauser Model 1905 Carbine Nose Cap and band retainer spring could be utilized; re-shaped the middle of stock for use of Mauser Model 1905 barrel band and band retainer spring; made a new handguard; changed out the magazine system if they were of the 5 shot variety so that they were of the 3 shot type; Turn down the bolt handle by about 45 degrees and finally reblueing and sometimes refinishing the stock as needed.
It is believed that approximately 8,000 to 10,000 of these firearms were modified by the Turkish Military Factories Administration which was called Askari Fabrikalar Ankara (ASFA), which was based in the capital city of Ankara. These are marked on the top of the receiver with T.C. for Türkiye Cumhuriyeti (Turkish Republic), Orman for Turkish word Forest and 1948 for the year that this was done. As they had made these carbines out of many different firearms, parts were not matched to one another but a serial number unique to these was placed on the left side of the receiver and bolt.
All of these carbines are on display at the Musée de la MAS in France
Berthier Boitier No1 bis
Mousqueton d'Artillerie Essais No2 bis
Carabine d'Cavalarie Essais No3 bis
TOP: Mousqueton d'Artillerie Essais No2 bis
BOTTOM: Carabine d'Cavalarie Essais No3 bis
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