Tragic, but safety and common sense ignored.
Tragic, but safety and common sense ignored.
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That is tragic. Can't imagine why they would do what they did if they knew it had a load in it.
Best to be very cautious of any muzzleloader until it is checked for a load in the chamber area. Good friend is director of our state's archaeological preservation/restoration lab, and he tells me that a very high percentage of relic muzzleloaders that the lab receives from shipwrecks, old buildings, out of rivers etc, have a charge in the chamber.
I can't feel sorry for someone so careless. It is tragic for his family, but don't you decap a muzzleloader or check to see if there's a primer in the breech as standard protocol? Maybe penetrating oil would have been more prudent. And three kids without a dad due to absolute lack of common sense. This guy was a hunter and they do make bullet pullers. And solvent opening with a cutting torch opens a whole new chapter in stupidity. Hmmm. Maybe I'll open a spam can of 54r with a torch and see what happens. Common sense is not all that common nowadays.
Last edited by bootleggerspub; 01-15-2009 at 10:34 AM.
Back in the 50s in my rural home area there were still old muzzleloaders to be found behind kitchen doors and smokehouses, etc. Mostly shotguns.
Some friends of mine spent a lot of time looking for them.
They remarked then that a high percent were found to be loaded.
Simple test. Run cleaning rod down barrel. Mark where it stops.
Remove cleaning rod and lay it alongside the barrel. If it's loaded, it will be evident.
I always say: the Gods must have their numbers! Those who are able to think straigth escape, the others must have a lot of luck! Every gun is loaded until proven otherways.
Before you clean ANY gun you check whether it is loaded or not. Even if you are the one who used it last. On black powder guns if it a percussion type you check and see if there is a cap on it.
The caption on the video reads "Shooting Victim".
Should read "Stupidity Victim".
Darwin Award nominee material, i think.
Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)
I bought a repro 1861 Springfield from a local pawn shop a few years ago, got it home and showed it off to the wife and then decided to clean it up. As per what I learned at the tender age of five about guns make sure they are unloaded before you clean them, but hey I just bought this one and it came from a knowledgeable gun store/pawn shop. Even still I checked for a load and sure enough it was loaded, it was of course de-capped but the 60 grains of 2-F and the minie ball were still in it. It just goes to show that you never know and even when you do know, are you really sure? I always tell guest to my house that any guns they come across here are loaded, most aren't but some are, even the smoke poles.
Last edited by CADFather; 01-16-2009 at 12:10 AM. Reason: qwerty
Whilst agreeing this was a preventable tragedy, hands up all those who've never done anything stupid at some point in their life,...... anybody????........ hello?????........ anyone??????
....... didn't think so,... judging by some the stupid comments made by some here.
The lack of compassion shown by some I find appalling (maybe its a question of age,... or lack thereof)
Poor bloke I say - how awful for his family.
Imagine how his father feels,.... or do those with harsh words have no thoughts for anyone else except themselves? (If so, how mightly Christian of them to offer to throw the first verbal stones)
Amazing to see how many are so quick to condemn a man whom they never knew. This just helps re-enforce the worlds perception that Americans shoot (their mouth off) first and ask questions later (if at all).
(BTW - I'm an ardent supporter of the US,.... despite it having it's fair share of Whiskey, Alpha, November, Kilo, Echo, Romeo, Seirra's)
Oh yes Milsurp, I once went home with my AR15 and realized (at home) that there was a round in the chamber. So I drove some 40 miles with a loaded and cocked gun in my trunk.
What happened? Before the last shot somebody new asked some questions and my buddies were already in the cantina. To be honest, I never speak or answer any questions anymore on the shooting place. I ask (politely) to leave me alone and promess to get back at them when I'm done. A double load in a BP rifle was another result of somebody asking questions at the worst time. I once wrote and printed a guide in my mother tongue ... one of the issues there says: "Do NOT bother a shooter until you see that he is done and puts his gun on the table or on the ground".
I realize that to some this may sound rude but it certainly isn't, the most important person on the shooting range is you ... your safety has no price, I learned it the hard way.
Last edited by Big commander; 01-24-2009 at 07:41 PM.
I remember a few years ago, watching some coot at the public range loading his muzzle loader with a lit cigarette dangling from his mouth as he poured the powder charge in. I tried to tactfully suggest that he not do that but he got mad and said that he knew what he was doing. I let him be, but I kept waiting to hear the big "FWOOMP!" sound from his end of the line.
An accident waiting to happen (insert rolling eyes here)
I totally agree with Milsurp. This happened very close to my city and was reported in our local paper. What was not printed in the link was the fact that this was not a hollywood style death where the guy just falls dead. The father had time to talk to him as he was dying. I can't imagine the pain of knowing he killed his son no matter what the circumstance.
10 years or so ago I was hanging out at a local gun shop on my lunch break when an older man came in carrying an in-line muzzle loader. We all noticed the ramrod was sticking out of the muzzle, and began to move away from the counter where the man stood. The gunsmith came out and the two men began to talk about the problem. The gunsmith then noticed that THERE WAS A CAP ON THE NIPPLE! We all ducked reflexively as he took the rifle from the elderly gentleman's shaking hands and went into the back of the shop to disarm it......
I left, as did everyone else in the shop......
Several years ago, I was talking to a man that said that he was set up at a gunshow, when this kid came in with a box full of stuff, he dad brought back from S.E. Asia. As the dealer was looking at a bayonet, and some medals, he noticed that the kid had a Chicom stick grenade in his hand. He had already removed the butt cap, and was starting to pull out STRING!!! "WHOA" he said, taking the grenade from the lad. Replaced the string, and the cap. Then promptly told him to leave, and contact the proper authorities. On a similar note. I was in a local pawn shop, not long ago. These young'uns came in with some stuff to sell in a milk crate. In the crate was an unmarked heavy cardboard box, with corner reinforcements. In the box, was 5 or six green metal cans, similar in size and shape of a Spam can. They had a wire bail looking aparatus, with a pull pin, and tabs on the side, with a hole in each tab. All unmarked. The owner, a long time aquaintance of mine called me over to ID what he was looking at. As he picked up one of the "devices" he started fiddling with the wire bail. I said, "please don't touch that anymore" "Why he said" "I don't know what those are, but they are unmarked." "Very unusual for military equipment" He put it back, and bought the lot for about $20.00. Some time later, he said that the Sherriff's Dept. came and confiscated them. Turns out they were Vietnam era Covert Ops BOOBY TRAPS!!!:eek: Which is sorta what I thought they were, being unmarked. The world is full of squirrels.
I got off work on a friday and drove the 160 miles to the farm.
I was proud of my 1st batch of.58 paper ca'tidges I had rolled up.
It was dark when I got there and I got my zouave out and couldn't resist loading 'er up for the next morning.
Next morning I went out with my Zouave and "loaded 'er up"-again.
The extra recoil, smoke, and noise informed me what I had done.
Only damage was to my pride and a cheap lesson in paying attention.
From a net site
"At the Battle of Gettysburg, of the 27,000 muskets picked up from the dead and dying after the battle, 90 percent were loaded. This is an anomaly, because it took 95 percent of their time to load muskets and only 5 percent to fire. But even more amazing, of the thousands of loaded muskets, over half had multiple loads in the barrel--one with 23 loads in the barrel"
A well-attested phenomenon. Load, present gun., everybody shoots. Reload. Repeat. Never realize YOU never capped or pulled the trigger. Or maybe never cocked the gun, but when everybody else was loading - so did you.
And then there are the guys who forget to remove the ramrod and essentially disarm themselves when it goes down-range. Occasionally actually spearing somebody.
Tell you what - combat is sort of stressful and I expect (am convinced) that it was much worse in the days of black powder and white smoke and linear tactics. Bad enough in my own (rather limited) experience in SEA long ago.
Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)
Do yourself a life altering experience. Compete in a 5 -7 man rapid shoot with M/L .58 cal perc. carbines. Everyone fires at once for first shot and then as fast as you can until times up or all the clay pigions are broken. 5 -15 seconds in the hell and exhilaration of civil war combat will be all yours. Upfront and personal. Difficult not to charge the targets and beat them with your carbine. Ex firefight vets types should NOT participate.