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  1. #1
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    Default three more nazi bunkers found in Denmark

    Three Nazi bunkers on a beach have been uncovered by violent storms off the Danish coast, providing a store of material for history buffs and military archaeologists. The bunkers were found in practically the same condition as they were on the day the last Nazi soldiers left them, down to the tobacco in one trooper’s pipe and a half-finished bottle of schnapps.

    This bunker was entombed under the sand dunes until a violent storm swept away the sands three months ago.

    The bunkers had not been touched since the war.



    http://www.newsnet14.com/2009/01/3-m...nd-in-denmark/
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    Doesn't indicate whether they were still armed. Wonder if they were, or if they were armed only with small arms and perhaps MGs that the troops took when they left.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    im sure any infantry weapons..ie....rifles and machine guns were taken by the troops who left said bunkers...now the schnapps being left behind is really odd,what good german soldier would leave that behind?

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    From the video that I've seen, the German withdrawal from Denmark (especially) was rather ignominious and pretty sad. It made me feel bad for the Landers that took the 'long walk home' over the peninsula.

    Fascinating article, thanks for sharing!
    Poot
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutch isle term View Post
    im sure any infantry weapons..ie....rifles and machine guns were taken by the troops who left said bunkers...now the schnapps being left behind is really odd,what good german soldier would leave that behind?
    The Schnaps was probably contra band one of the troopers had stashed for occasionally reinforcement on night time guard duty.

    A friend who grew up in North Africa told me he had spent many hours playing in old WW2 bunkers near where he lived. He had a collection of grenade fuse remnants he'd picked up there, I think most were a French type grenade. No telling who occupied those bunkers or when, maybe Vicy French, or maybe the grenades were thrown in by Free French fighting Germans or Vicy.
    Some French Legionaires chose to side with the Vicy while others chose to fight alongside the allies.

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    Some French Legionaires chose to side with the Vicy while others chose to fight alongside the allies.
    Its a tough call really deciding where ones duty lies,especially for a career soldier.One is raised to serve the state and whatever enemies may threaten it,what does one do when the enemy is its own people ? Our own civil war was full close friends and even brothers or fathers and sons that chose opposite sides,regarding states rights versus federal authority.Robert E Lees letters and such show he was very deeply conflicted as to his duty : a US officer versus a Virginian. I belive JEB Stuart had a Brother In law that was a union general . Thruout history men have had to make the extremely hard call as to what was right for them that way..Even ancient stories such as the Illiad and "song of roland" have players conflicted as to whom the serve and how.

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    [QUOTE=davef;697194. I belive JEB Stuart had a Brother In law that was a union general . [/QUOTE]

    Not only a brother-in-law, but Stuart's father-in-law (Maj. Gen. Philip St. George Cooke) was an esteemed earlywar Union cavalry commander. One of Abraham Lincoln's brothers-in-law was killed at Chickamauga at the head of a Confederate infantry brigade, George Thomas was disowned by his family by placing loyalty to the Federal government over his home state of Virginia, sons and grandsons of Henry Clay fought on both sides, etc.
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    The US Civil War was not about states' rights, per se, no matter how deep south and/or exposed to the myth of the "lost cause" you are. Notwithstanding, many might've called themselves Virginians first.
    Alden

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    Those bunkers being found is so cool. I wish I could have been the one to find them and be the first to explore them.
    What has our country become? More takers than givers.

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    Just be thankful you weren't one of the slaves used to construct them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickyracer2 View Post
    Those bunkers being found is so cool. I wish I could have been the one to find them and be the first to explore them.

    There is still time to be the first to graffiti-tag them! Oops, too late.

    Speaking of bunkers....did anyone ever see the Peter Sellers' movie The Blockhouse? Supposed to be a true story of some French workers that took refuge in a bunker on D-Day and got sealed in for several years living off the battalion stores inside.
    Interesting movie especially if it really happened.
    Last edited by Billofthenorth2; 02-02-2009 at 01:45 PM.
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    Took a ferry ride a few years ago from Dover, England to Calais, France. As we approached Calais I noticed a number of concrete emplacements along the shoreline. After arriving in Calais we explored the beach area and found a number of these German concrete bunkers left over from the German coastal defensive line, which was particularly strong in the Calais area. One of them, which had been constructed on an overlying bluff had overturned (apparently due to erosion of a dune) and was lying upside down on the beach. People had written all sorts of graffitti on it. Wish I had some photos but it was too dark when we got there. I am glad they have not been removed as it is an outdoor museum of WWII history. Just wish the one lying upside down could have been put back in place.
    Last edited by helmich; 02-02-2009 at 05:20 PM.

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    In the early 70's I was stationed in Zweibrucken, Germany, 20 clicks east of Saarbrucken. There was an old bunker right outside the front gate, and there were remnants of others all around the area. Most had been blown up by US combat engineers after they were examined to prevent souvenier hunters from going down in them and getting into trouble.

    My roomie had managed to venture down into one somewhere and he had retrieved a Nazi helmet - rusty and pitted, but the real thing. I had heard a story of another guy who supposedly dug some live mortar rounds out of a bunker and somehow got them back on base. He was ratted out by someone (probably the guy in the next room!) and EOD had to come get the things. The rounds supposedly went off very nicely when EOD took them out and used some C4 on them.

    I think the GI got an Article 15, IIRC. Seems to me that a SCM would have been more appropriate.

    It was pretty common in that area for construction crews to dig up UXO from WWII. One crew on base was using a Ditch Witch and they dug into an air/ground rocket, maybe from a P-47. EOD extracted it without incident and destroyed it.
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    While I was in Germany (1966-68) every construction job in the Frankfurt area (especially the then -on-going U-bahn project) would encounter UXB from the late unpleasantness. Anything from 250 and 500 pound GP bombs up to the big 4000 pound "Cookies", frequently pretty deep, too (40-50 feet down). Of course, Frankfurt is in the Main Valley and much of it is on alluvium, so stuff can dig in pretty well there.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    About 5km from my house real estate developers clean an area, which was abandoned since the war. Almost daily they find UXO 500lbs bombs and have to evacuate some few thousand people to unfuse the bombs. They use remotely triggered rockets to screw the fuses out of the bombbody. Many of those bombs had acidfuses which are to dangerous to unscrew with handtools.
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    Don't the French still have an army unit who's job is disposing of WW1 munitions?Stuff must be wonderfully unstable after 90+ years in the ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wa3yvt View Post
    Don't the French still have an army unit who's job is disposing of WW1 munitions?Stuff must be wonderfully unstable after 90+ years in the ground.
    Yes, they do, though I'm not sure the demineurs are military - may be civilian. Brave, either way.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    That had to be quite a find. I would have loved to been able to explore one of those bunkers. A great article, thank you.


    Quote Originally Posted by DaSOB
    "In Korea we stacked little f**ks like you 5 feet high. Used you for sandbags."
    Sorry to go off topic, but that was a great movie.

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    helmich, i too took that ride. it gave me goose pimples to see those bunkers. on the dover side, along the cliffs, there are giant iron doors, that lead to tunnels that go through the cliffs and come out on the other side in valleys in the small town and hamlets. wish i could have gotten the history on those also. i like on the beach on the french side a big sign reads "we welcome our allies". the most humbling thing i saw was on the way to st.omer, a beautiful little town, (as far into france as we went), were all these little cemetery plots in amongst the farm fields. we went off road to see what they were. they had rows of white crosses designating the name, rank age of each allied soldier, along w/ the date of their death. among the whit crosses were other crosses and plaques w/ the names of the locals, their ages and their death dates. in each one we stopped at, the deaths were all in the same 2-3 day period for that cemetery. they must have been little battles that took place over a 2-3 week period from what we could tell by the dates. VERY somber. rick

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    Plenty of war cemetries over here. It makes me sad when I read the ages. Mostly fom 18 to 25 years old. No chance to enjoy a life.
    Wolf
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    While I was in Germany (1966-68) every construction job in the Frankfurt area (especially the then -on-going U-bahn project) would encounter UXB from the late unpleasantness.

    Geologically interesting from the standpoint that much of the "clear" areas later become dangerous as the deeper spent projectiles or bombs gradually work their way to the surface.

    I remember reading about this in regard to the zone rouge with an aside to the unexploded projectiles from weapons such as The Paris Gun. Its shells buried in at supersonic speeds. Gonna be another hundred years before any of them make their way close to the surface.....which they might do right beneath a shopping mall. :eek:
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    For those interested, a good book on the subject of UXO is:

    Aftermath: The Remnants of War: From Landmines to Chemical Warfare--The Devastating Effects of Modern Combat (Paperback)

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    Was present at a 'surprise, surprise' about thirty years ago, give or take. I had been invited, with a couple of colleagues, on a picnic into the French countryside. We were picnicking in an area where there was some construction going on, and several large trees had been cut down, recently. Our German colleague sat down on the stump, sipping on his wine, and stood up, after a couple of minutes, wiping at his buttocks and swearing. By the time we got back to town, he had massive blisters on his backside. Seems there was a lot of mustard gas absorbed in that stump.
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    Absorbed "Mustard Gas" was not the cause of your friends blistering.
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    Default bunkers

    This may be slightly off topic, but a couple of years ago a movie
    was released called "The Bunker". It was about a group of German
    soldiers who take refuge in a bunker towards the end of WWII.
    Its supposed to be a horror movie, but it basically shows how battle
    fatigue and fear make them see things that arent really there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    This may be slightly off topic, but a couple of years ago a movie
    was released called "The Bunker". It was about a group of German
    soldiers who take refuge in a bunker towards the end of WWII.
    Its supposed to be a horror movie, but it basically shows how battle
    fatigue and fear make them see things that arent really there.
    The movie was pretty good. Lots of cool german weapons. The story isnt to bad either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jericho View Post
    This may be slightly off topic, but a couple of years ago a movie
    was released called "The Bunker". It was about a group of German
    soldiers who take refuge in a bunker towards the end of WWII.
    Its supposed to be a horror movie, but it basically shows how battle
    fatigue and fear make them see things that arent really there.
    I watched that film on television last night. It was advertised as a horror film, and that was what I was expecting, but your take on it was more accurate. The effects of battle and the trauma of acting as a firing squad was very apparent.

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    Default My Opa might have been in those bunkers.

    My Opa (Grandfather) was stationed at the very end of Denmark in such a bunker with Sweden just across the ocean. I know the unit's he was in while in Denmark (He was with the Kustartilleri) and after the war was over he was in a POW camp there.

    He liked the Danish people and after the war went back twice to visit.

    It would be nice to know the town or area that these bunkers were found at?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hessian View Post
    It would be nice to know the town or area that these bunkers were found at?
    Houvig.

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    http://www.sologstrand.com/holiday-d...and/houvig.htm

    kelt

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    Default Skagen/Frederikshaven

    No, not the same place... Opa was at Skagen/Frederikshaven.

    Robert

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    Quote Originally Posted by trickyrick View Post
    helmich, i too took that ride. it gave me goose pimples to see those bunkers. on the dover side, along the cliffs, there are giant iron doors, that lead to tunnels that go through the cliffs and come out on the other side in valleys in the small town and hamlets. wish i could have gotten the history on those also. i like on the beach on the french side a big sign reads "we welcome our allies". the most humbling thing i saw was on the way to st.omer, a beautiful little town, (as far into france as we went), were all these little cemetery plots in amongst the farm fields. we went off road to see what they were. they had rows of white crosses designating the name, rank age of each allied soldier, along w/ the date of their death. among the whit crosses were other crosses and plaques w/ the names of the locals, their ages and their death dates. in each one we stopped at, the deaths were all in the same 2-3 day period for that cemetery. they must have been little battles that took place over a 2-3 week period from what we could tell by the dates. VERY somber. rick
    My family used to make that crossing quite a bit back in the 70s. I remember an area on a bluff above the port (I think it was Boulogne) that still had mine warning signs. I spent a week on the south coast of Brittany with a school group, near the town of Concarneau. The beaches there were also dotted with abandoned bunkers of varying shape... usually full of trash. We visited the French submarine base at Lorient... they're still using the German sub pens (washed-out verboten signs were still visible on the concrete.)

    There are still military bomb disposal units, in Belgium and France, clearing unexploded ordnance from the Great War. There was a Smithsonian article about them a fair while ago. Some of their members have been killed by the stuff still ploughed out of the beet fields.

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    I've noticed something.

    Has anyone else noticed that German bunkers appear "different" based upon their concrete characteristics.

    Maybe its just European in general, but I've never seen poured concrete in the U.S. that looks like what you see in your normal German fortifications.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Stein View Post
    I've noticed something.

    Has anyone else noticed that German bunkers appear "different" based upon their concrete characteristics.

    Maybe its just European in general, but I've never seen poured concrete in the U.S. that looks like what you see in your normal German fortifications.

    Sounds like we need an official Gunboards trip to go investigate first-hand! :D
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    Hello J.Stein,

    "Has anyone else noticed that German bunkers appear "different" based upon their concrete characteristics."

    - A lot depends on the time and place they were build.

    I live just North of Antwerp and in my village you can see pre WW1 Belgian fortifications, WW1 German bunkers (fields full of them), trenches, an interbellum made wet anti tank ditch, Belgian 1930's bunkers with eggshell camouflage and German made anti tank walls.
    For example the pre WW1 Belgian forts are made of unreenforced concrete, they look strong but they aren't: the shells from the German siege guns (Big Bertha) penetrated them very easily.

    Cheers,
    Peter

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    Quote Originally Posted by MilSurpFan View Post
    Sounds like we need an official Gunboards trip to go investigate first-hand! :D
    I'm up for that.

    Thanks "Peter u" for your input. Knowing the Germans, there must have been some purposeful science (exposive/penetration resistance) behind their construction. It appears that in addition to regular rebar/steel rod reinforcement, the Germans thinly stratified their pouring - sometimes horizontally, sometimes vertically.

    Their fortifications remind me of their tanks. There is just no mistaking them.
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    Hi J.Stein,

    Before the Belgian governement gave its consent to build the concrete forts, in the 1880's, the army did also tests and the army engineers corps came to the conclusion that unrenforced concrete was better to build forts then renforced concrete.
    - Strange but true.
    And it was a fact that in 1914 the forts could resist 280mm shells, the type that also was used in the pre war tests but the Germans & the Austrians brought up their big pieces of 380mm & 420mm.

    If you have the time, take a look at this intresting website, look for the history of fort Loncin.

    http://www.geocities.com/~brialmont/forts.html

    Pictures on which you can see the damage:

    http://www.fortdeloncin.com/page.php...ENDA&newsID=14

    Fort Loncin exploded on August 15 1914, 12 tons of blackpowder ignited after a 420mm shell penetrated the forts powder magazin; the result was that almost the entire fortresse crew was buried alive, 350 men.

    Cheers,
    Peter

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    Thank you so very much Peter.

    I can spend days navigating foreign (even foreign language) web sites devoted to the Great War.

    In my youth, well before the availability of photos on internet, my books would reference the "forts" of the Great War and -being an American- I could never completely grasp the idea.

    As an American our "forts" are limited to either the brick coastal forts of our history (Fort Sumpter [civil war] and Fort McHenry [Star Spangled Banner]) or the wooden post forts of our Cowboy and Indian movies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter u View Post
    Hi J.Stein,

    Before the Belgian governement gave its consent to build the concrete forts, in the 1880's, the army did also tests and the army engineers corps came to the conclusion that unrenforced concrete was better to build forts then renforced concrete.
    - Strange but true.
    And it was a fact that in 1914 the forts could resist 280mm shells, the type that also was used in the pre war tests but the Germans & the Austrians brought up their big pieces of 380mm & 420mm.

    If you have the time, take a look at this intresting website, look for the history of fort Loncin.

    http://www.geocities.com/~brialmont/forts.html

    Pictures on which you can see the damage:

    http://www.fortdeloncin.com/page.php...ENDA&newsID=14

    Fort Loncin exploded on August 15 1914, 12 tons of blackpowder ignited after a 420mm shell penetrated the forts powder magazin; the result was that almost the entire fortresse crew was buried alive, 350 men.

    Cheers,
    Peter
    I think much (most from some sources) of the damage to the Belgian forts in 1914 was done by Austrian-origin Skoda 305mm mortars (or howwitzers if you prefer), though there were bigger ones that were used to some extent.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    I think much (most from some sources) of the damage to the Belgian forts in 1914 was done by Austrian-origin Skoda 305mm mortars (or howwitzers if you prefer), though there were bigger ones that were used to some extent.
    Those are still impressive guns, and I was always under the impression that some of those Belgian forts were a bit antiquated. At least by 1914 standards. I think some of them surrendered after just a couple(literally) of shots.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.Stein View Post
    In my youth, well before the availability of photos on internet, my books would reference the "forts" of the Great War and -being an American- I could never completely grasp the idea.

    As an American our "forts" are limited to either the brick coastal forts of our history (Fort Sumpter [civil war] and Fort McHenry [Star Spangled Banner]) or the wooden post forts of our Cowboy and Indian movies.
    Stein, I too have a hard time really understanding the concept. Also, the "ring" of forts concept. I always wondered why the Germans couldn't just march around the forts as they passed through. I guess you have to take a good hard look at maps, topography, etc. or even actually see them to really understand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebohunk View Post
    Stein, I too have a hard time really understanding the concept. Also, the "ring" of forts concept. I always wondered why the Germans couldn't just march around the forts as they passed through. I guess you have to take a good hard look at maps, topography, etc. or even actually see them to really understand.
    The fortifications cover both the transportation infrastructure 9roads, rail lines, canals, rivers) and the trafficable terrain. If you are gonna move a lot of troops and gear, you can't have the forts manned and shooting at you.

    As far as (early) surrender is concerned, when the bad guys start dropping rounds that prove able to penetrate into the gun rooms and magazines, well - what would YOU do? Yeah, that's what I thought. Me too.
    Absent comrades (sound of breaking glass)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clyde View Post
    The fortifications cover both the transportation infrastructure 9roads, rail lines, canals, rivers) and the trafficable terrain. If you are gonna move a lot of troops and gear, you can't have the forts manned and shooting at you.

    As far as (early) surrender is concerned, when the bad guys start dropping rounds that prove able to penetrate into the gun rooms and magazines, well - what would YOU do? Yeah, that's what I thought. Me too.
    Not judging. I imagine I would. Just seeing Schlieffen's right wing coming at me might have been enough for me to give up. Thems were some brave dudes.
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    Hello,

    I wrote a mistake indeed the Austrian siege mortars were 305mm and not 380mm. Thanks Clyde.

    The Belgian forts in 1914 isn't a simple subject matter.
    I would be writing here for many houres.
    In the 1860's the Belgian army and governement decided to defend the country with a "redoubt national" that was based in Antwerp and some of the strongest forts ever constructed were build around Antwerp, for their time they were very modern and in 1870 neither France or Prussia were intrested in a siege of fortresse Antwerp.
    Because of this succes also Liege & Namur were fortified.
    When the forts were designed and build they were very modern but siege artillery technolgy caught up very fast and in August 1914 the forts were in fact all obsolete.
    The forts were a nuisance for the Germans and they had to take them out and they had the tools to do it.
    An example when the Germans shelled the Belgian forts with their big siege guns they did it from a distance of +/-8Km, the guns of the fort had only a range of 6Km.
    Those poor fellows inside the fort couldn't even shoot back, it was a very one sided battle.
    But it still took more then a couple of shots to crush the forts, some examples of the number of 420mm & 305mm shells fired at some of the Antwerp forts:
    - Breendonk: 563
    - Walem: 556
    - Sint Katelijne Waver: 498
    - Koningshooikt: 524
    It was industrial warfare, these shells were fired in usually two days or less.
    The conditions in these forts during bombardment was hell: the concrete cracked and the air became unbreathable from the dust & toilet odor.

    Cheers,
    Peter
    Last edited by peter u; 05-22-2009 at 11:43 AM.

  44. #44
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    The impact of a 420mm shell on fort Kessel.


  45. #45
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    Ouch.
    Chaos, disorder and destruction...My work here is done.

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