1903 Mexican Carbine/Pictures Added

[jj-22]

I just inherited a couple of firearms, one of which is a Mauser. I don't know much about Mausers as I only have 1, a K98.
On the top of the receiver is the Mexican creast and Republica Mexicana 1903.
Serial A3197. I'm just wondering what I have here and it's history.
Thanks.
Sorry, this is the only pic I got before the batteries died in the camera.

[RETREAD]

Looks like anice Artillery Luger, Arisaka and . 45 Auto shoulder holster. Values will depend on originality, condition and originality. Special or unusual unit marks will also factor in. Buy some batteries and post the photos.

[Surplus]

Hi,

I have one just like it.
I inherited it from my grandfather, he served in the Mexican army during the revolution and retired in the early 1940's.
After that he worked for "La Forestal", a government organization that produced wax from the Candelilla plant that grows
in the Mexican desert in the north of Mexico. The wax was exported to the US during WWII ( to replace sperm whale oil)
and he was in charge of preventing the illegal smuggling of the wax into the US (to protect Mexico's economy).
Anyway, he had a detachment of soldiers (a platoon) and they would patrol from Laredo all the way to El Paso along the border.
I guess that he kept the carbine after he finished working for "La Forestal".
The rifle shoots great, it was de-faced and does not have the crest or any serial number.
I'll try to get a picture later and post it
Oscar

[JL]

Very uncommon Mexican carbine. I have a very rough one that is the only one I have personally seen in my years of collecting. Should be marked on the side rail with the DWM address spelled out. It and the long rifle (which is also uncommon) were the basis for the Mexican made model 1910 rifles and carbines. JL

[car99]

That T99 Arisaka has the monopod bent backwards. I would lube the screw and nut that holds it on, and carefully bend the legs so that it folds forward, under the nose cap.

[John Wall]

Very uncommon Mexican carbine. I have a very rough one that is the only one I have personally seen in my years of collecting. Should be marked on the side rail with the DWM address spelled out. It and the long rifle (which is also uncommon) were the basis for the Mexican made model 1910 rifles and carbines. JL

I agree with JL, these carbines are very rare. In addition to the two posted above, I know only of JL's and mine, and a fifth piece photographed in "Mauser Bolt Rifles". It's interesting to see that in one post, we can almost double the known number of M1903 carbines.

Surplus,
Can you check the side rail of your carbine? As JL points out, it has to say "Deutsches Waffen und Munitionsfabriken Berlin" (DWM) in order to be an M1903 carbine. The Mexican Government later produced the very same carbine in Mexico City after 1930, except for its markings. It is the German-made version which is uncommon.
Regards,
John

[jj-22]

Thanks everyone. I'll get some better pictures up today. It has some surface rust and is pretty dirty. The bore isn't too hot hot but I can see rifleing. I've seen worse in Chinese T53 Mosins. The stock has a chip at the heel and the wood is pretty dry. It looks almost as though it had been stripped but I can't be too sure of that. I usually use Behr Scandinavian on most of my stocks. Would that be OK on this stock?

After I take some pictures today, I'm going to strip it down for a good cleaning and lubing. I'll take pictures of it disassembled as well.

The Safety lever and cleaning rod are missing. With the lever missing, how can I get the bolt apart? Also, any leads on where I can get a somewhat proper lever?
The action does function. Maybe the safety was removed because "We don't need no stinking safety levers."?

Oh, and no, I do not want to sell any of these for those who have sent me messages asking. Thanks.

[jj-22]

Here are some pictures. I'm not the best photographer nor do I have a great camera, sorry. I mentioned in my first post that the serial was A3197. It's actually A8197.

[Surplus]

I agree with JL, these carbines are very rare. In addition to the two posted above, I know only of JL's and mine, and a fifth piece photographed in "Mauser Bolt Rifles". It's interesting to see that in one post, we can almost double the known number of M1903 carbines.

Surplus,
Can you check the side rail of your carbine? As JL points out, it has to say "Deutsches Waffen und Munitionsfabriken Berlin" (DWM) in order to be an M1903 carbine. The Mexican Government later produced the very same carbine in Mexico City after 1930, except for its markings. It is the German-made version which is uncommon.
Regards,
John

John,

Unfortunately, my carbine was scrubbed and does not have any DWM markings in the left side of the action.
I guess the rifle was sanitized by my grandfather when he borrowed it permanently from the Mexican government.
The only marking I recall is a "C" in the bolt and other metal parts.
I will take some pictures and posted later this week.

Surplus

[Hakentt]

such a shame mexico that big of a country had to rely on small germany to make rifles for them. This tells you a lot about mexico. Even today they still don't know how to make a rifle.

[DocAV]

Mr. Hakentt, you have just demonstrated the old saying, about opening your mouth and telling the whole world about your complete ignorance of Mexican Gunmaking History.
("One can be quiet, and seem a fool, or one can open his mouth, and confirm it.").

Mexico , besides being the FIRST Latin American country to set up a Rifle-making Plant (in 1910,) and an ammo plant (soon after) also had several world-class Arms designers in its service.
The rifle factory also improved the original M1910 rifle/carbine serteis,, in the 1930s, with the M1936, which cobined some features of the US Springfield m1903, in a 24 inch barrel Rifle. After WW II, they also modified this further to make a 30/06 version.

Mondragon and Mendoza are two of the famous designers...Mondragon had his designs ( rapid fire straight pulls, new cartridges, and a Semi-auto carbine) made in Europe ( 1890s-1908), and his M1908 was adopted and used widely by the Germans in WW I, who even developed a large-capacity snail drum mag for it ("FliegerSelbsLaderKarabiner M1915") in 7x57 for aircraft and balloon use, (it was too fine a gun for Ground(trench)Use).

Mondragon also was one of the designers of the French 75mm M1897 quick firing artillery piece. Whilst developing his straight pulkl rifles in the 1890s, he spent time at the Puteaux Arsenal, in the outskirts of Paris, the R&D facility of France's Artillery Service...where he would have seen some of the STA semi-auto rifle developments of the late 1890s and early 1900s.

Mendoza developed an LMG (RM-1) machine rifle) in both 7mm and 30/06, an extension of Browning's BAR. Several other Mexican Arms designers developed "machine Pistol" conversions for Star and Colt .45 Pistols, and also some Submachine guns. Lately they have designed and adopted a new Assault rifle, (see 2008 editions of SAR).

Incapable of rifle design and manufacture indeed!!!!

Con muchos saludos,
best regards,
Doc AV
AV Ballistics
Brisbane Australia.

[TP]

Well stated Doc.

[1911crazy]

Weren't most of the mexican mauser receivers used for doing builds because of there stronger 98 bolts? This is why we don't see that many mexican mausers today in there orginal condition. Yet we don't see that many of the mexican mauser builds or conversions into sporters being sold too, i find that rather odd. So were are all the mexican mauers today?

[jj-22]

I got the bolt apart. I cocked it and then stuck the blade of a flathead screwdriver into the top slot in the bolt body to hold the firing pin in place.

Still have a few questions:
How do I get it out of the stock, how do the bands come off? I figured I'd ask before I try and then bung something up.
What's the proper stock finish? BLO?
What's a suitable replacement for the safety lever?
Cleaning rods available and where?

Thanks for any help.

[Surplus]

Doc,
Thank you for your detailed description of Mexican armament manufacturing, being Mexican I was PO by Hakenett's remarks and I was going to respond to his ignorant comment.

The base for most of now days automatic and semi-automatic rifle mechanisms are derived from Mondragon's self loading semi-automatic rifle patented as early as 1896, way before that any Garand, SKS or Kalashnikov saw the light of combat.

Anyway, changing subjects, I have some pictures of my sanitized Mexican carbine that I inherited from my grandfather.

The markings in most of the screws is a "B", the bolt is marked with and "A" on the handle and a "T" on the shroud. Other parts are marked with what it looks like an "x". Also, a stylized "t" is present in the bolt stop lever.

There is a cartouche just below he bolt stop lever that appears to have "FNA" for Fabrica Nacional de Armas I suppose. If that is the case, this one was manufactured in Mexico. Next to it there is another cartouche with a shield shape encasing a "G".

I dont know if this is enough information to identify it as DWM or Mexican manufactured.

[jj-22]

Four coats of BLO on the stock and 0000 steel wool with Break Free on the metal.
Looks pretty good. The bore cleaned up real well too.

[royke]

such a shame mexico that big of a country had to rely on small germany to make rifles for them. This tells you a lot about mexico. Even today they still don't know how to make a rifle.

I guess that the Mondragon M1908 in my safe is a figment of my imagination........

[solman]

hows it shoot?,,,,, so it was made in berlin eh?

[jj-22]

hows it shoot?,,,,, so it was made in berlin eh?

Don't know, haven't tried it yet. I couldn't find any surplus ammo so I'll have to pick up some commercial loads.

[jj-22]

Does anyone know what these marks, the shield with a line through it on the top and the 4 circles on the adjuster are on the rear of the sight? The sight does match. The circle mark is present on the bolt shroud and the shield is on the extractor. The shroud number does not match and the extractor is un-numbered.

Attachment 163239