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Thread: Cutting tip of fmj to make soft point/hp?

  1. #1
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    Default Cutting tip of fmj to make soft point/hp?

    Dumb question, just curious if it works or if the jacket is shed in the barrel? I thought years ago I heard someone trying this, and the lead core shed the jacket, leaving it in the barrel.....Has anyone ever tried it?

    Also have a seriously strange question. We all know the vietnamese dipped pungi sticks in feces to cause infection to those unlucky enough to step on them. Would this work with h/p's too? Forgive me, I have no intention of trying THIS......just curious if it would feasibly work? It would seem to be a lot of work, but if it did, even those enemy combatants with minor wounds may be stricken with horrible infections.

    Any ideas? Again, sorry, I know its a weird question. Was tjust thinking the other day about the pungi sticks, and how some have suggested using pungi stick pits WITHOUT THE FECES to trap deer in a survival situation. Got me to thinking about it....

  2. #2

    Red face Strange question

    I don't have the answer though.

    I have wondered about lacing all of our ammunition with Pig Blood for the War on Terror?
    Or maybe dropping a few tons of Pig Parts in enemy infested areas of the middle east?
    Seeing how they are terrified of Pigs.:D

    You never know.

  3. #3
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    Dum-Dum.
    Alden
    PS: Also look up Siege of Lucknow. I have proposed the lube elsewhere. Just a thin ring in a single cannelure. Let's settle this once and for all...
    Last edited by Alden; 02-23-2009 at 08:36 PM.

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    Ha Ha. We used to give the Iraqi EPWs (POWs) the dehydrated pork patties from our MREs. They could have cared less that it was pork. After having had their asses kicked and half-starved, they would eat anything...

    Lots of folks have cut the tips off of FMJ to make "hunting" rounds. There is a chance that the core will squirt through the jacket. Is it worth it? For most hunters around here, a 20 rd box of soft points lasts them quite a few years...

    As for the biohazard rounds, I doubt that the small quantity involved in relation to the wound created by the projectile would be worth the effort. Besides, would you want to run around with a chest pouch or LBE full of S*it smelling ammunition?

    D.D.

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    There is definately a possibility that a cut FMJ bullet will leave a shed jacket in the barrel. I have only blown up one firearm, and it was an M1 Carbine used with reloaded speer half jacketed bullets. The copper jacket from one round stayed in the barrel, and the next round overpressured with a resulting split barrel.

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    Default Cutoff FMJs and "Poison Bullets"

    The cutting off of even a small part of the tip of an FMJ can lead to jacket shedding, and subsequent bulging of the bore with the passage of a subsequent bullet.

    "Poisoned Bullets": Not very effective, unless the Poison is INSIDE the jacket (like some .32ACVP assassination cartridges of WW II.

    During the Russo-Japanese War, many wounded Russian soldiers died of Anthrax , and the Japanese were accused of Poisoning the bullets (6,5mm) with Anthrax spores...It was found that the Russians had been issued as winter clothing, whole-fleece jackets made from Sheep which in Russia, are normally anthrax infected as a matter of course...the Bullets passing through the jackets carried the spores into the wounds, where they prospered and killed the otherwise lightly wounded soldiers.
    Another case of "poisoned Bullets" was the verdigris stained 11mm Spanish Reformnado cartridges used in the Span Am War (1898)... AS in the Civil War, larg, slow lead bullets carried dirty cloth from the soldier's uniform into the wound, and this was the source of the "Poison"...the 7mm Bullet (jacketed) created a smaller wound, usually didn't carry any cloth or debris into the wound, and usually was a through wound as well.

    ( See "Gunshot Wounds" by LaGrande (1914, revised 1917). LaGrande was a veteran Army Surgeon of the Span-Am Wars and the First World War. Covers the period of change from Lead Bullets to Jacketed Bullets very well (His techniques are still used in Iraq and Afghanistan today), and compares wounding effects of Civil war Musket bullets with those of the early 1900s jacketed types. Also looked at the Wounding effects of .45 Pistol ammo, soft points ("dumdums") and other enquiries ( Chicago Stockyards Tests) in the early 1900s.

    Regards,
    Doc AV
    AV Ballistics.

  7. #7
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    Many years ago, I cut off the tips of a couple of bullets like described. Never had any problem - apparently I was lucky.
    Charlie

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    I have cut lots of the 153gr turk 8mm to go popping jacks. I use a disc sander to cut just the very end so you can see the lead. Next i made a jig for the drill press to hold the bullet. Then drill out 3/16 of an inch hole. Ive never had any thing go bad,
    1 EYE

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    I believe on surplusrifle there is a long thread on this being done with 54r. No problems reported. In the thread the OP had also experimented with reversed rounds with good results. He did say that hog hunting with the reversed rounds was devastating, with very large holes.

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    Default Dum Dums

    I'd avoid the risk myself. Just buy some soft points.

    And feces on my bullets..No thanks.
    Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

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    The cloth carrying disease reminds me of a post on here the first time I was around (server change or something scrubbed my screenname and password). Anyways, myself, or someone posted about cloth helmet covers in WWI. here's a picture of Bill Donovan with one. Anyways, it was stated that they weren't too common because of the risk of disease from a superficial wound.

    Anybody get that email that circulated about how to deal with muslim extremists? It stated that Pershing ordered some involved in the Philippine Insurrection executed with bullets dipped in pigs' blood. Sounded like bunk to me, but was entertaining.

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    Another thing to keep in mind. A FMJ bullet with a snipped or ground off tip may not expand much, if any, presuming it leaves the rifles barrel intact and hits it's intended target. The jacket material probably isn't designed for expansion, especially steel jacked ammunition.

  13. #13

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    cutting the tips off FMJ's was prevalent with the 30-40 krag and with the 303, iirc, was against the Hague Convention 1899 though.

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    Elementary, my dear Watson! Fire when you see the crack of their Bass and you'll get the proper result!

    I know the loading manuals generally warn about pushing the velocity of the Speer "Varminter" .308 110 gr beyond 2900 fps (when loaded in .308 Win or .30-06), but I don't know if this is because of jacket seperation risk or other considerations.

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    Can we agree that cutting the tips of FMJ is not a good idea?

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    Whether there is agreement or not, I won't be doing it any time soon....
    "The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament..."

    I'm starting, to suspect that I, don't know how to use commas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CTSixshot View Post
    Elementary, my dear Watson! Fire when you see the crack of their Bass and you'll get the proper result!

    I know the loading manuals generally warn about pushing the velocity of the Speer "Varminter" .308 110 gr beyond 2900 fps (when loaded in .308 Win or .30-06), but I don't know if this is because of jacket seperation risk or other considerations.
    Other conciderations... assuming a 1 in 10 twist barrel and 2900 fps that means the very thin wall Varminter will be spining at about 208800 rpm ( 2900 feet X 12 inches = 34800 inches divided by 10 is 3480 revolution per second times 60 seconds = 208800 rpm) .. thats a lot of centrifical force and can cause a very thin wall bullet with a 30 cal diameter to pull itself apart.... you can get away with high speed spin in a smaller caliber because of the smaller diameter= less angular momentum.. but the larger the diameter and the thinner wall needed to expand on a small light low resistance target like a prairie dog spining much faster due to higher velocity causes the bullet to pull apart.
    Last edited by AmmoSgt; 02-24-2009 at 09:37 PM.

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    Damn AmmoSgt, you are turning my mind into mush! FMJ should stay that way!

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    Freebore... sorry for going ballistic on you

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    I read your reply again. I'm sometimes slow, but I'm always learning. FMJ should stay that way! I'm just trying to help out here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoSgt View Post
    Other conciderations... assuming a 1 in 10 twist barrel and 2900 fps that means the very thin wall Varminter will be spining at about 208800 rpm ( 2900 feet X 12 inches = 34800 inches divided by 10 is 3480 revolution per second times 60 seconds = 208800 rpm) .. thats a lot of centrifical force and can cause a very thin wall bullet with a 30 cal diameter to pull itself apart.... you can get away with high speed spin in a smaller caliber because of the smaller diameter= less angular momentum.. but the larger the diameter and the thinner wall needed to expand on a small light low resistance target like a prairie dog spining much faster due to higher velocity causes the bullet to pull apart.
    Word.
    Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

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    not something I intend to try. Just curious. Still curious about the other idea......Even a small amount of that in a wound would be enough. Doesn't take much shit to start an infection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruskiegunlover View Post
    not something I intend to try. Just curious. Still curious about the other idea......Even a small amount of that in a wound would be enough. Doesn't take much shit to start an infection.
    Bullets get quite hot from both the burning propellant gasses in the bore and friction when flying through the air. I think there's a reason why nobody does it.

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    I think that putting shit or pigs blood on bullets would be a no no as stated in the Hague convention of 1899, section II Article 23, Laws of war

  25. #25
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    ha, don't think that matters much in a ot of cases. If I was overseas, I would definatly dip some of my rounds in pig blood, or rub bacon on them. Why not? To hell with them.....Hopefully you could tell them before they died to.

  26. #26

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    And what about garlic for night shooting?

    In case he would a Wampire ...

    Cheers
    :>
    ccmsd

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    I seeee nothiiing!

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    Gee, I should check the boards more often!

    Thanks for the description on the 30 cal fodder above AmmoSgt; I just read it today!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freebore View Post
    Can we agree that cutting the tips of FMJ is not a good idea?
    Unless you crimp the tip a little.:D

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    Ive done it for years and im giomg to do it agin. It works good for me.
    1 EYE

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    A guy on thehighroad.org claims he has a friend that puts human excrement in his jhp ammo. Everyone I tell this too laughs good and long. For fun I am going to experiment with this at the range with .45acp jhp and a .45acp revolver.
    .

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